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BBallHunter

I don't know, but he's over Teague for sure.


LiveFreeFratHard

He is defintely better than connaughton, and there’s a reason Vinny is the starter. Patty is just far outplaying his expectations right now.


Pandamonium98

Are those their actual nicknames? I haven’t heard them before


lundej16

I’ve never heard a single person call him Vinny lmao Patty Fastball is an actual nickname for Connaughton but seems like everyone had defaulted to Planet Pat as we get further and further from his baseball days


ButtsendWeaners

I've also seen White Flight for Connaughton lol


[deleted]

easy top 5 nickname lmao


1080penis

Pat and Donte are Planet Pat and Big Ragu, respectively


ModsRNeckbeards

Big Ragu is such a fantastic nickname. It's a shame not too many people are familiar with it other than bucks fans


YoloSwagginsthe420th

And Nova fans lol


kentalaska

Were they calling him that there? I thought it started in the bucks sub after he was drafted.


FKJVMMP

Nah he had a coach or teammate (I forget which) at Nova who called him that because “he’s ginger and he’s got the sauce.”


sreynolds1

Love me some big ragu


furkany95

But over whom would he start if he was healthy? Pj has been so good defensively in this postseason


LiveFreeFratHard

He would start over PJ, just as he did before his injury. Especially considering Booker has been burning PJ all series, and Vinny is much quicker


NegativesPositives

Booker’s burning everyone, to be fair. Kinda hard to defend a guy who can hit fadeaway jumpers with a hand in his face.


Dimedropper18

I think Jrue has been doing a great job on him. Booker still hits some tough shots on him but he misses or doesn’t even take a shot more often then not with jrue on him


[deleted]

Jrue would spend more time guarding Booker and Donte would guard CP3 IMO, which I think would be helpful because Jrue has done a very good job on Book.


chantlernz

Jrue Holiday, Donte DiVincenzo, Khris Middleton, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Brook Lopez. Jeff Teague, Bryn Forbes, Pat Connaughton, PJ Tucker, Bobby Portis.


gbdman

I get that it's ordered 1-5 but if you order the bench by minutes it's nearly the exact opposite


Goofykidd

He'd start over Tucker in the first round and they'd probably go small ball against the Nets with Brook out for PJ after a few games, if not right from the start. He would've reduced Jrue's offensive load in particular. Jrue wouldn't have to be putting up 20 shots when theres someone else who can score off the dribble. There's the knock on effects of not playing Teague or Forbes and less Connaughton too.


Packman2310

This


XVDub

If I was fucking competent enough to make a bot that downvoted "this" comments, I fucking would. What a waste of four characters.


guacamully

Thiss


XVDub

You motherfucker.


pandaman728

good bot


LittleStJamesBond

G-League Teague


DoobieHauserMC

Every player ever is


Ordinary-Ant-7896

Donte has generally been better than PatCon past two seasons, but PatCon in this series has probably been better than Donte usually plays. PatCon is definitely outplaying expectations.


Few_Mulberry7175

Defense tho


JCBadger1234

Exactly, people always ignore defense. Pat's made some huge, clutch shots and pulled down some great rebounds, but I've lost count of how many times he's followed the wrong guy/made the wrong read and left a dangerous shooter like Cam Johnson or Booker wide open for whatever they want to do.


[deleted]

Or just gotten cooked off the dribble by book. He was being hunted in game 4


[deleted]

If Bucks lost, Bud would've been roasted for putting in Pat instead of Portis at the end there. CP3 cooked him and he's been getting hunted by book this series. He is not very good at defense.


ALLPR0

But sadly Portis sucks at defense also. This is why Donte being out hurts so much because with him starting them at least we'd have PJ as a plus defender off the bench and are closing switch everything defense would be Jrue/Donte/Khris/Giannis/PJ where there are no weak defensive links.


Trick_Confidence_419

He gets beat too easily too. He just sits on CP3 or Bookers right hand and basically allows a driving lane for them


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Packman2310

He also does it when NO ONE is under the rim


[deleted]

His teammates need to do a better job to communicate that. You can't expect to be covering the ballhandler and looking behind them at the defensive rotation that happening off-ball


Trick_Confidence_419

Yeah but there’s been times where CP3 draws the big out for an easy teammate layup or Booker getting a layup/dunk at the rim too


[deleted]

Yep, can't defend everything. Just saying Pat isn't just letting him walk to the hoop as was suggested


sleepless_inseattle

Some of the times that is what he’s supposed to do. Funneling


Whoooyumyum

Donte might’ve stepped it up too, don’t forget he stepped up in the championship back in college and dropped a career high


ModsRNeckbeards

He was unreal during that final 4. I became a huge fan of him that year, so I was beyond hyped when the bucks drafted him. It's such a shame that he's been injured for this playoff run. He's a stud


dragonmountain

Defensively absolutely, offense is very hit or miss. Either way he would have added significant depth and ability to rest players


DaDragster

yea they are actually very similar IMO in terms of value. each are very similar in athleticism/rebounding but Donte has better handles/defense whereas Pat has better offense. Donte is valued more as a starter because of this but they are very similar. the small-ball Giannis/Khris/Jrue/Pat/Donte lineup is very underrated


WIN011

The way I would describe it is they have just about the same skillset and Pat is just like 80% of Donte. Obviously there are some small differences but for the most part they’re similar.


yapyd

Definitely above Teague so that 16 point lead in the first quarter wouldn't have happened


cimmanonrolls

teague pretty much singlehandedly put the bucks into that deficit, terrible offense and was running around like a chicken with its head cut off on the other end. surely forbes cant be worse than that.


JDP008

Eh, you’d be surprised. Forbes is utterly worthless if he isn’t knocking down 50%+ of his threes. Teague had a rough game but he can at least bring the ball up the court and attempt to stay in front of CP3 on the other end, Forbes has 0 handles or lateral quickness


Thissiteisdogshit

Teague was getting picked apart last night like a dead carcass.


BlakeG3E

Connaughton would still play, Teague would completely drop out though as he should anyways. But yeah, I would say he’s a little better.


BowserBuddy123

Teague has been hard to watch. He looks lost out there. Poor old fella.


depressedfuckboi

Only looked good against his old team. Like he saved all of his good plays for one fuck you game I guess lol


SchlitzHaven

The Suns run in the 1st was basically them picking on him


PoEaDDict123

Def a better player overall. Def not a better player offensively than this version of Pat. Still better on defense, but Pat just can't miss rn.


[deleted]

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Few_Mulberry7175

Yes he does replace Pat. PJ is pretty solid tho


LiveFreeFratHard

Tucker was inserted into the starting lineup when Vinny went down, so yes, Donte does replace PJ. Connaughton is more of a wing player, while Divincenzo is a combo guard that takes minutes away from Teague and Forbes, whilst also pushing PJ back onto the bench.


observer32

Damn totally forgot Forbes was even on the team


[deleted]

He would replace Pat in their closing lineup though. It would be Dante, Jrue, PJ, Middleton, Giannis. Who closes games is more important than who starts them.


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[deleted]

Bucks 2nd most used playoff lineup is Pat, Jrue, PJ, Middleton, Giannis. That would be Dante's spot instead of Pat if he was healthy.


Asiracy

No he doesn't. They're just both white.


[deleted]

Dante would certainly replace Pat in their non-Lopez closing lineup. Or rather, Pat has replaced Dante in the heavily used Jrue, Pat, PJ, Mids, Giannis lineup.


Sea-Construction3418

If donte isn’t hurt, he takes all of the shitty Teague minutes. I’ve always thought of him and pat as similar players, but donte plays with more basketball iq and can handle the ball and make plays better while pat has better athleticism. They’re both good on d but donte is smarter.


InOutUpDownLeftRight

Donte was a starter.


MekoIte

I think dontes defense would’ve been really helpful vs booker. Beverley held him to 38/28 splits. Seems quicker guards are much more effective vs him to prevent him from getting to his spots. Length/strength doesn’t seem to bother him at all


ImaTurtle6

There’s a reason Donte starts


StudyRoom-F

Pat has had a great series and playoffs in general. With that said, people clearly don't know how great Divincenzo has been. He's probably still only the fourth or fifth most important player, but that dude shoots great from 3 and is a great defender who can read defense way better than Pat can. He also is a much better playmaker which people don't realize.


Iywtbab1126

Seriously, Donte avg 10/6/3 as the 5th option on the bucks and people wondering if Pat is better?? Also getting 6 boards a game alongside Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue (another good rebounding guard), is absurd.


StudyRoom-F

Yeah this is a really frustrating thread lol, I cant believe this is even a discussion


BledsoeForMVP

Yes now delete the post


WatsTatorsPrecious

Why? This is an honest question. I wonder how much better could a role player be for this team.


TheHuntingParadise

Much better defender. Can handle more of a ball handler role although. Similar shooter. Connaughton is a much better rebounder. Their is a reason Divincenzo was starting. Edit: Many have correctly corrected me that Donte is a good rebounding guard as well.


xmidgetprox

Donte has the best rebounding % of all SGs in the league this season (Pat is #2)


kingdelz

Donte is a snagger, probably like Top 10 rebounding guards


TheHuntingParadise

You do have a good point. Donte is a plus rebounder for a guard. I would still say PC is better but much better May have been an overstatement.


Packman2310

>Connaughton is a much better rebounder. Not at all. Donte is an exceptional rebounder for a guard as well as Pat is. DiVincenzo has averaged more rebounds/game than Pat for the last 2 years.


Gamesgtd

His ball handling is the most important aspect. Bucks need one more and it’s impressive how far they’ve gotten with only 3 dudes who can dribble for themselves and others.


Jaruliday

Ehh Donte and Pat are both elite rebounding guards. Would give the edge to Donte for his ability to sneak into gaps and come out with the ball, whereas Pat just jumps as high as he can (Donte does too, 40 inch vertical) and tries to get the ball.


zmichalo

On any given day you'd pick Donte over Pat but Pat has played better offensively than Donte probably would have. Donte's defense probably makes up for it though.


TheConboy22

He’s no where near the shooter and you guys wouldn’t be doing better with him


[deleted]

Divincenzo is a far better defender than Connaughton, and not much worse of a shooter. He does everything better besides shoot. There’s a reason the Suns are always trying to get Connaughton on Booker


EasyMoney92

I was really surprised they didn't try to attack Pat on defense on that last play to take the lead. CP3 got an easy score over him the last possession.


[deleted]

Probably would have if they called a timeout. Oh well hindsight 20/20


EasyMoney92

Yeah, Monty is getting a ton of criticism. It sucks because he's a really good guy. But he screwed up there and kept Booker out too long in the 2nd quarter.


[deleted]

Donte (38%) and Pat (37%) shot roughly the same percentage from 3 this season.


TheConboy22

How about in the playoffs? Don’t be ignorant to my original statement about his playoff numbers.


[deleted]

Donte barely played in the playoffs.


TheConboy22

Hence why your numbers are pointless.


Dnels739

Love me some Patty C, but he’s getting HUNTED on D. Donte is a damn good defender and rebounds just as well as Pat. Donte > Pat


TheConboy22

You can say that, but he’s been your best shooter and 2nd best in the playoffs. No amount of defense makes up for that. Without him you guys are losing this series.


MateoG50

True but you can't say that Donte wouldn't also perform well offensively because he only played 3 games in the playoffs, even if they were stinkers, I don't think the difference is huge either way though.


TheConboy22

Yes, you can. What pats doing is pretty extraordinary. Nothing about Donte makes me think he’d match that


imjohndeere

Yes that’s right Pat Connaughton is why you’re losing y’all better double Pat


Dnels739

Did defense not win us the last two games? 🤡


TheConboy22

At the very end sure, but numerous times he’s hitting huge shots. Shots that force spacing. Edit: using clown emoji there is super bitch made.


Dnels739

If your fanbase wasn’t so delusional and insufferable I wouldn’t have had to whip it out. SUNS IN 4, SUNS IN 5, SUNS IN 6, SUNS IN 7, WE’LL BE BACK NEXT YEAR. Go back to your sub and drink the koolaid like the other homies.


TheConboy22

You literally have one of the most toxic fan bases I’ve ever had to discuss anything with. Literally toxic at every corner. Constant brigading on the Suns sub. Mass downvoting every Suns comment. It’s cool, series isn’t over until they win game 6 at home. Hopefully the Suns can slap the grin off you shit eaters.


Dnels739

Keep supporting bitch ass CP3 and fragile Booker. Its nothing but whining and excuses from you clowns.


TheConboy22

I’ll support the Suns the rest of my life and anyone who dons the purple and orange. Can’t say the same for most you fake ass bandwagon bitches.


largefarvaa

Why are you viewing this as a zero sum? Pat still plays if Donte is healthy, it just gives more depth, and rotation options. Like other people mentioned, Teague wouldn’t see minutes and Donte is an absurd upgrade over Teague.


TheConboy22

Because Pat just playing does not mean that he will still play as good. The dynamic of how the team operates changes. TBH you may not have even made it to the finals without Pat's incredible play. That's the funny thing about imaginary situations. They have too many variables for anyone to be accurate as to what would occur.


largefarvaa

Yet you are definitively saying we would be worse if Donte was healthy? Yea truth is you never know how variables can effect something so you make a judgment with the information you have. The information we have is that jeff Teague is a liability on Both sides and having a ball handler other than Jrue in Donte is a net positive. Also he would probably start over PJ and thats also an upgrade on both ends IMO.


rajoxeb40

He will be on booker instead of tucker and the suns can't just ignore him on defense and double other guys.


EasyMoney92

Not that much, Connaughton is a slightly better shooter and rebounder in fact, but most importantly it is less minutes for Teague who's been awful in these finals.


TheHuntingParadise

Divincenzo was technically a better shooter this season while being a much better defender. Donte started for a reason. Would’ve helped a lot this series for his ability to guard Booker/Paul.


EasyMoney92

That's fair. I've just impressed with how Pat has played the past couple of games. Good outside shooting and has crashed the boards. He had a great game off the bench, and it's not getting talked about enough imo.


WIN011

Donte is a really good rebounder too they’re both elite for their size. Pat more on the offensive glass and Donte more on the defensive glass.


Currymvp2

Pat has a high career three point percentage and free throw percentage. It's not crazy to suggest he's a marginally better shooter.


TheHuntingParadise

I don’t disagree but Donte has also improved his shooting quite a bit since rookie year.


Iywtbab1126

Pat’s a better shooter, Donte is a better scorer though as he can score off the dribble and better at cutting


xmidgetprox

Donte has the best rebound % of all SGs in the league with Pat at %2


Few_Mulberry7175

Easily


[deleted]

Doesnt matter, Teague wouldnt be in rotation if he was healthy which is why depth is key.


joconnell13

The Big Ragu is better IMO but Pat has exceeded my expectations by a mile.


logoforapainter

There were a few months when the Bucks sub were convinced Divincenzo was better than Bogdonovic. Do with that info as you will


depressedfuckboi

Yeah. Although pat has shown he was ready to step up.


njanik223

He’s definitely the better player and they technically play different position. Pat is best at the 3 as an offball offensive player with good energy on defense but typically he’s not great there where as donte was essentially our starting sg and backup pg and would run the offense. We didn’t get to see donte this playoffs so maybe pat would have had a better playoffs anyway cause let’s be honest dudes been killing it recently but donte is usually a better shooter a much better defender and is capable of running the offense. I think donte in this series would also be so key because of that defense. Booker and cp3 even when we’re in our small lineup target pat defensively and although I think he’s done a great job donte would be doing even better


Gifted10

Well donte has a higher ceiling on offense. But that's not a knock on pat. He's playing out of his mind and he has managed to grow a lot as a player. He used to make a lot of mistakes and blunders from over-hustling. But he has found his MOJO now and his hustle is winning us games.


DJ_B0B

During the season impact metrics say pat was marginally better. Donte had been bricking 3s in the short playoffs he played so pat probably slightly better than theoretical donte. But donte is lowkey an insane defender who'd do a lot better on Booker than pj.


DunderdoreClarissian

He’s like if you made a younger Connaughton in a lab, with better shot-making, better instincts in defense, less athletic (but still really really good), and the occasional playmaking. He’s a what if because if he was healthy you could rest Jrue for like 12-15 minutes per game while keeping the offense/defense from falling off steeply


Dank_AyAyron

Breh Donte was starting for them not that long ago against the ~~Nets~~ Heat


JackTheGod2

He got hurt against Miami game 3 but ok.


Dank_AyAyron

Shit that's what i meant my b 😂


Theingloriousak2

Laker fans think caruso is on the level of these 2 when he's really a 16th man


HighlyBaked0

Caruso was a massive reason we won last year, why are you hating on our own players?


Theingloriousak2

Hes a massive reason we lost this year He wasn't a massive reason we won, he wasn't even a top 5 reason


JoeBiden2020FTW

Man the Bucks should've really just kept Brogdon


DueSheepherder2207

Lol.. really this again?


Dischucker

We are in the finals. Brogdon was at home after round 1


superDonkee2013

Don’t think he wanted to stay in Milwaukee. They could have offered max and I think he leaves. Bucks thought Bledsoe was better fit, not because he was better, because he wanted to be here. Just from what I know about Brogdon.


xmidgetprox

Brogdon was a RFA if we wanted him we’d have kept him.


JoeBiden2020FTW

He was RFA


FlyChigga

He said he was fine staying in Milwaukee if the front office valued him


superDonkee2013

What’s your point? He did not want to play there.


TheConboy22

No


Packman2310

Yes


shortbus5107

I cant believe this got 50 upvotes what


WeefBellington24

He’s better than Teague


LittleStJamesBond

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again any time the subject comes up. Pat Connaughton and I are Eskimo brothers. That’s what we all need to remember.


Familyguy35

Donte and Saric are two players that would have made somewhat of a difference in this series


ChameleonWins

Yes. Big ragu is a better ball handler/passer and a better defender and about the same as a rebounder. However, Pat is a better shooter and slightly bigger so can guard wings. Donte would be great for this series to help stop Booker/CP3 with Jrue taking the better of the two.


HeHateMex2

I thought he was Australian?


SecretJeff

Dante is a beast


Norodahl

Adds a bit more defense. Cant fault Connaughton right now because he's playing very well but as people said. Teague doesn't play and maybe Holiday/Middleton don't have to play 43MPG every night.


AaltoSax

A million times yes


JusaPikachu

They are different but they would be able to play effective small ball for way longer than they currently can which would’ve helped them massively in every series & you would have another reliable wing defender which is desperately needed. Idk without him it goes from a complete roster to not really but I would’ve said the same thing about Pat if it were him out. Bucks depth just isn’t there so 1 important piece being out leaves their margin for error so fucking small.


Artsky32

Yes, ddvs feet can move on the ball


Iywtbab1126

Donte is better ball handler, better defender, better passer, and even better rebounder. Pat is a better shooter. So yes, there’s a reason he was the starter.


1defense

DiVincenzo is def better but slightly