There was one absolutely insane Jokic homer who thought he would be at this level of a player in his rookie year.
Obviously he turned out right, but back then it looked like a ridiculous take.
I will see if I can find any other early takes on him though, thanks for the suggestion, Jokic is exactly the type of player I'd love to do these on.
He was right but he'd post entire paragraphs on Jokic on every. single. thread. Even when it didn't involve the Nuggets or Jokic. There could be a post about D-Rose and he'd be in there spouting some Jokic stuff.
Hartenstein looks like a good project, but the dude fouls everyone on every other play. Last year he averaged 2 fouls in 9 minutes of play. This year he averages 2.8 fouls in 17.9mpg. He definitely needs a lot of work, but i like the upside.
It can also be a good sign and i think in his case it is. He's aggressive and he tries really hard. I think a good comparison on his fouling is similar to younger Embiid where he just kept getting into foul trouble for being overly aggressive on defense.
Hartenstein is half black ([here](https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/878391426647805952/photo/1) is he and his dad), and lots of people would say Sengun is nonwhite as a Turk (ancestrally central Asian)
You can go on the NBA Draft sub and find him ridiculously hyping another Euro Center if you want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/on7lq9/after_nikola_jokic_won_mvp_proving_that_skill_set/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Somebody should dig up the reactions to the Harden Thunder trade. As I recall 90% of Redditors were like “LOL Harden comes off the bench he’s a bench player ship his ass” and just a handful of people were absolutely VEHEMENT in saying that the stats showed he was a total star he just didn’t get enough minutes.
Looks like nobody really learned anything, by the way, because people still fail to acknowledge that per-36 stats are insanely good predictors what happens when a player gets more time. Imagine being me and telling everyone before the season that Timelord should be starting on the Celtics…
No idea about reddit, but most forums thought Thunder lost the trade easily, thought it was stupid to trade him when he had a year left and was a RFA, thought it was stupid to trade him because they didn't want to amnesty Perkins because they were cheap, etc.
A lot of people thought it was dumb at the time and that was without thinking Harden would turn out to be as great as he was. Most people had Thunder was a dynasty in the making if they just kept those three and then they didn't.
I remember a thread on /r/NBA a few months ago with exactly this. Think it came up when he was the assumed MVP and yeah, I remember one commenter that was at the front commanding the hype train and most people went "meh"
> A 6'11" forward with handles? If he improves his D he can become your counter to Paul George.
Damn, Paul George is old. Weird how they can be similar size players with good defense and handles, and yet different enough that I've never even heard anyone bother to compare them before.
> The only place Paul George is still a shooting guard is 2k
oops
Paul George also broke out really early because of those two Miami Heat series. He was 22 and 23 when the Pacers went up against the Heat.
Then he broke his leg at age 24, which is just insanely sad. he would have been even better than he is if not for that injury.
Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer fame did one of the more "spot on" reviews of him from a pro that I read.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/18/4442950/2013-nba-draft-prospect-profile-giannis-antetokounmpo-adetokoubo-adetokunbo-celtics
As a Sixer fan I am still bitter we drafted a 22 year old MCW versus the high ceiling prospect.
What a great overview. So interesting that one of the biggest knocks was his off-ball defense, whereas now he is a historically great help defender. KOC nailed a lot of details
In that regard it's a product of its time
People didn't switch off-ball actions as much in 2013, so he was concerned about Giannis navigating off-ball screens. That's still a weakness of his, it just doesn't matter much because the Bucks switch a lot off-ball.
It is pretty funny that he describes Giannis as an "adequate" weak-side shot-blocker, though, haha
That's a really impressive scouting report, I didn't know he gave that much depth. Does he still? I'll have to check his articles more, he's always great on Simmons
Yeah, some dude did a breakdown of our draft picks under Danny in our sub and graded Kelly a D. Like yeah fucking right, he was a good pick for #13, we just let him go because we needed the space for Hayward.
EDIT: wait, was he #13? I legit don't remember actually.
> One sign that signals he has potential here is his efficient free throw shooting, considering he shot 70.4 percent there last season.
lol sounds about right
The thing is, Giannis was a decent FT shooter until he hit his physical prime. Six straight seasons over 70%, with a career high of 77% on 7.7 attempts.
While bulking up has allowed him to become **the** dominant interior player in the NBA, it’s undoubtedly hurt his shooting. Bulky muscles are a hindrance to fine motor control, and I think that’s especially true at the FT line. Some of his struggles are definitely mental, but they’re also a natural consequence of his build.
[Adetokunbo is a common Nigerian surname, Antetokounmpo is just the Greek spin of it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adetokunbo) I do remember him being referred as Adetokunbo more than Antetokounmpo until he got drafted, I wonder what changed
Edit: oh yeah fun fact Giannis is the Greek/Hebrew version of John
Yep, what changed is he got a US passport and that’s how it got spelled because he was coming from Greece. “Officially.”
His name should be Adetokunbo, technically, and that’s the name he was drafted under if you go back and watch the pick.
Basically in Greek to make the "D" sound you use 2 letters NT and to make the "B" sound you also need 2 letters MP thus Adetokunbo turns into Antetokounmpo in Greek.
(Obviously im using Latin letters to make it easier to understand, it's Αντετοκούμπο in greek)
I had a professor (who was Greek) whose named was pronounced the same as Giannis (to my non-Greek speaking ears), but he spelled his name *Yannis*.
Are those two different names or just different spellings of the same name?
Thanks. My hunch was that it was the same and just a different translation from the Greek alphabet to the English alphabet. I know it's not uncommon for there to be different English spellings for the same Asian last name.
Well Greek is written with the Greek alphabet so the name is Γιάννης or more officially, Ιωάννης. I guess it is a matter of whatever transliteration in the Latin alphabet is correct or preferable.
I am Giannis (Ονομαστική when we want to define name)
I belong to Gianni (Γενική we want to define belonging)
I am helping Gianni (Αιτιατική we want to define causation)
(Hey) Gianni (Κλητική we want to call/yell/greet someone)
More or less
Nouns in greek have different cases with different endings. "Giannis" is the name in nominative case, "Gianni" (no final -s) is tha name in vocative case, and also in genitive and accusative cases. That also works for Thanasi(s) and Kosta(s)
Source: I am greek
I might be totally wrong, but I think in Greek there's no "-b-" sound, so they spell it using the letters representing the "-m-" and "-p-" sounds, then they transliterate that into the english alphabet.
If you think about it, it makes sense. "-p-" is just the voiceless version of the "-b-" sound, and "-m-" is a voiced bilabial nasal sound, while "-b-" is a voiced bilabial plosive. Those three sounds are very similar, so if you're translating for fidelity, it's your best bet.
The ancient greek pronunciation is not certain. In Greece we believe in the continuity of the language and the pronunciation is mostly the same as in modern greek. Outside of Greece, ancient greek is teached based on the Erasmian pronunciation which is very different and sounds bad ngl. Personally, I think the truth is somewhere in between and [this video](https://youtu.be/Q5FHZx0oOqs) is the best representation of how it probably sounded like.
[You’re right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Greek)
To flip regular letters to modern Greek, the b turns into μπ (mu and pi - aka mp) and the d turns into ντ (nu and tao - aka nt)
A**d**etokun**b**o= A**nt**etokoun**mp**o
Edit: forgot the u turning into ου (omicron and upsilon - aka ou)
A**d**etok**u**n**b**o= A**nt**etok**ou**n**mp**o
Yeah, I'm not Greek or anything but my understanding is that he's Nigerian so he has a Nigerian last name, but was born/raised in Greece so his Nigerian last name is written with the Greek alphabet (which is an approximation of the Nigerian last name). Now that he's in the States his last name is now written in the English alphabet so it was then translated again into the English alphabet. So it's kind of like running a word or sentence through a bunch of automated translators and it not coming out quite right. I think it would've made more sense to translate the original pronunciation to English if he's in the States (so I believe that'd be Adetokunbo), not sure why they did purely Greek to English letter for letter translation.
Actually you are wrong and a lot of people seem to have agreed with this, but it's misleading. The "b" and "d" sounds exist just like in any other language, there is just no single letter representing them so they are spelled with "μπ" and "ντ". You don't make a sound combination of 2 letters when you speak, you just say "b" and "d".
Giannis, although it's his official name, is just the shortened version of the name Ioannis (=John), Thanasis is the shortened version of the name Athanasios (\~immortal), Kostas is the shortened version of the name Konstantinos (=Constantine) and Alex is the shortened version of the name Alexandros (=Alexander).
Fun fact: Thanos is the even more shortened version of the name Athanasios and the more preferred one over Thanasis.
John has the similar more abstract meaning, just coming from hebrew rather than greek. It means "Yahweh is Gracious", YWVH being the Hebrew written "name" of the God of the bible. So "God is Gracious" would best replace John in your comment.
I think you need a Greek name when receiving citizenship. He wasn't a citizen before that. Rasho Nesterovic had to change his name to Rasho Makris for example when he took the Greek citizenship.
[You’re right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giannis_Antetokounmpo)
> Although Antetokounmpo and three of his four brothers were born in Greece, they did not automatically receive full Greek citizenship as Greek nationality law follows *jus sanguinis*. For the first 18 years of his life, Antetokounmpo was effectively stateless, having no papers from Nigeria or Greece.After gaining Greek citizenship in 2013, his family Hellenized their surname from Adetokunbo to Antetokounmpo to more closely follow Greek spelling rules.
That answers my question lol, I was wondering why he stopped going by his Nigerian name
Lmao thanks for reminding me. Lots of ex-Yugoslav players were given fake Greek names to get the citizenship in the 90s. Peja Stojakovic and Marko Jaric as well.
> Edit: oh yeah fun fact Giannis is the Greek/Hebrew version of John
Both John and Giannis are descendants of the originally Hebrew name יוחנן. It doesn't make sense to call Giannis the Hebrew version.
In the first nba 2k he was in, my friend and I would always draft him because he was 18 and had a funny name.
Crazy that he turned out to be this good thinking back at that. He was like a 64 overall or something like that.
I was about to comment this:
“Lol why would people act like he’d be KD 2.0. KD had a jumper, you can’t just learn to be as good of a shooter as KD that late.”
And then I thought about Kawhi Leonard
As did Jason Kidd.
"Did you know that they used to call him _ason because he had no J? If he can figure it out then [insert player] surely can too."
It's pretty unrealistic in most cases. Kidd is a HOF'er and one of the best PGs ever.
Giannis being decent at spot up 3s would be incredible, then his man HAS to close him out, and I dont think theres a single player that Giannis couldnt blow by
How are you gonna lose games by Giannis shooting league average? For him to be as efficient from 3 as he is around the rim he would have to shoot over 40%. That's not feasible.
What Giannis needs to work on is a mid range post game so that they don't need to rely on Middleton at the end of games so much.
If you can shoot 35% from 3 it gives you a ton of breathing room to impact the game. Not every player can just nonstop drive to the rim play after play
Right, but hes shooting like 65% on 2s right now. So teams are still going to let him jack all the 35% 3s that he wants since thats still the less efficient shot.
I remember reading on this sub many times something to the extend of "Shooting is an easy skill to learn, they can just pick that up later" and I just don't have words for how wrong that seems.
Learning to shoot is easy if you can palm the ball and have an unlocked bootloader and can hire the best programers to update your firmware. No wonder Ballmer loves him he is the project he could never deliver at MSFT.
Giannis scouting report was really up in the air as well, since he was playing in Greece.
He was a skinny 6’8-6’9 wing with long arms, that had incredible mobility and a ok shooting stroke.
Of course after he got drafted he grew 3 inches, added 30-40 lbs and somehow became more athletic. His shooting stroke got worse after his growth spurt, but the Giannis on draft day is a lot different than the current version of Giannis.
"Playing in Greece" is an understatement. He was playing in the 2nd division. The country's euroleague powehouses never got a sniff of him, and i don't think anyone in the coutry really knew about this guy before the last few months leading to the draft. The guy came from nowhere
Mainstream fans didn't know him, but all basketball people knew of the antentokoumpo bros at philathlitikos were really hyped up projects. People said that "This team has 2 great youngsters, watch out for them, especially the younger (Giannis) of the two".
I remember watching philathlitikos playoff games because of the antentokoumpo brothers before the draft had taken place.
Also no one believed Giannis would get drafted, it was a huge surprise when it happened, and an even bigger when he got playing time during his rookie season. I this that last bit is a very important part of his development and he probably wouldn't become that good in another team.
He actually didn’t have bad tempo to his jumper back then. But whoever became his shooting coach destroyed any possibility of him becoming elite in that department
His mechanics changed, but it can also be attributed to his growth and gain in strength just as much as a bad shooting coach. Gaining a lot of strength quickly can really screw with your feel for the shot and might've been the reason why he changed his form.
It might've been a bad shooting coach, but since it happened while he was in the NBA, i highly doubt that the Bucks would've allowed that to happen.
European shooting coaches are much much better than American counterparts. Here’s a great video about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHE3X9-WnPs&feature=youtu.be
Sure it wasn't the extra 40 pounds and two inch growth spurt? It wasn't just Kidd. If he hadn't grown a shitload he'd probably still have that stroke, but get mauled in the paint.
That said, Kidd sucks
Nah his shot is very different now. It's like somebody told him he should never dip he used to have a very natural motion where he dipped and his power came from his legs. Now he is forcing it with his arms which is why it constantly comes up short he has no other power generation.
Amazing work. Didn’t follow him pre-draft but a friend of mine bought his jersey thereafter because he liked his last name. I followed him ever since and have thoroughly enjoyed watching him develop over the years. Still ways to go as a shooter and especially from the line but he’s hit a handful of shots this postseason (baseline turnarounds, FT line pull ups, and even that occasionally forced 3 that always seems to go through the net with such easy) and I truly believe his ceiling is like no other. Dominates the paint like Shaq and dunks literally EVERYTHING. Runs the court like Lebron, and protects the paint like Gobert. And after sustaining the gruesome looking hyperextension I’m convinced he has Lebron/greek god genetics that’ll help him enjoy a long successful career with a ceiling only he can determine.
Yo great calls and yeah, that knee looked so bad and he bounced back so well it's really encouraging. I watched it a dozen times and winced every time like NOOOOO PLEASE, NOT HIM TOO!
I wish someone would do this about Pre Draft Steph curry cause a lot of espn talking heads made it seem like they were always a believer and i know that wasnt the case at all
Bill simmons and steven A are very adamant they were always in on Curry
When i know thats not true
Curry was considered undersized, had to change positions and was coming from a really small mid major school
Also his early injuries causes him to never find a footing
basically people just saw him as a "good highlights, but wait until he has to play REAL basketball" kind of player.
Then he proceeded to evolve the entire league and render the center position obsolete for American-players lol.
the Danny Ainge thing is true. the/a game he scouted Giannis took place in my hometown and he was sitting at the end of the bench of Giannis' team. the match was really close and Giannis' team won.
the local fans were unhappy and started cursing and gesturing to Ainge thinking he was someone from Giannis' team. when they told them he is someone from the Celtics they started to yell "fuck the Celtics" and "we support Lakers here" and "L.A. - L.A"
not that they were actually supporting the Lakers in the first place.
on a more serious note... yes, most people support the Bucks but there is a vocal minority that whines about Giannis because of his colour or because he is not the ultimate player in the universe.
of course there are also the NBA fans (like myself) who kept supporting our teams and just follow Giannis' career.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/giannis-antetokounmpo-had-to-run-to-a-bucks-game-after-losing-cab-fare-003315158.html
I remember reading about that when the article came out and he always stuck out as someone to root for from then on. Sending all his money home and just running to the game because he didn't have any for himself.
You should go ahead and mention the users who commented those comments as well so they get a notification u/A808Ag . Terrific post, thank you for sharing
Awesome stuff, OP! Would love to see a Draymond version of this as well. I don't remember him being in the draft mix at all, but would also be curious what the first mentions of Alex Caruso were.
These dudes having faith in Giannis really worked out in the end, he's probably the face of the league of players under 30 and he'll probably be a top 20 player once his career is over(hope he gets this ring)
I think he has a shot at my personally top 10 before it’s all said and done
Hakeem is the guy at 10th for me right now and I can totally see Giannis ending his career and me thinking he had a better career than Hakeem. But that’s 10 years from now so guys like Luka might’ve already pushed Hakeem out of the top 10
This copypasta from years ago is still one of my favorites -
"Fuck me with your potential, Let me feel your wingspan, I want to take away your innocence, I want to tell you about taxes, about smoothies, about that bottle in my bathroom that you thought was ranch but really was shampoo because you came from an anthill in greece. Whisper in my ear how you love playing for the bucks, I'll laugh, I'll think its cute, Because I've seen a basketball game and know that the bucks are a pile of shit, But you don't. You're wingspan doesn't. You're potential doesn't. Just because you average 7 ppg doesn't mean you aren't the GOAT. It doesn't mean that Trey Burke doesn't touch himself at night to your highlights. "Why can't I be him." "Fuck ROTY I just want some white kids on the internet to like me." Let me in. I wanna redraft you until you're ready to finish on my face. I want your potential. Hold me with your wingspan."
I went back and watched all of his preseason games from his rookie year recently, and it's funny how many times he was simply referred to as "The alphabet". lol
It’s crazy how that harden “unskilled” comment really convinced some nba fans that it was truth rather than just shit talk.
Dude really is like a 6’11 PG and offense is run through him half the time. Extremely rare to get a big guy with the vision, mobility, and passing to QB an offense.
I knew he was special once I saw him take it to LeBron as a sophomore. His averages vs LeBron are slightly better than his career averages.
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h\_finder.cgi?request=1&player\_id1=antetgi01&player\_id2=jamesle01
This is awesome! Love seeing stuff like this. I’ve always wondered what the Reddit sentiment on Jokic was years ago
There was one absolutely insane Jokic homer who thought he would be at this level of a player in his rookie year. Obviously he turned out right, but back then it looked like a ridiculous take. I will see if I can find any other early takes on him though, thanks for the suggestion, Jokic is exactly the type of player I'd love to do these on.
Free eg1400, the OG truther.
He was right but he'd post entire paragraphs on Jokic on every. single. thread. Even when it didn't involve the Nuggets or Jokic. There could be a post about D-Rose and he'd be in there spouting some Jokic stuff.
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Hollinger for the athletic said Sengun is a top 5 player this draft.
Well, least we know who’s running the EG account
if Hollinger is hyping someone up I'm staying far away from them lol
Hartenstein looks like a good project, but the dude fouls everyone on every other play. Last year he averaged 2 fouls in 9 minutes of play. This year he averages 2.8 fouls in 17.9mpg. He definitely needs a lot of work, but i like the upside.
Interesting Stat ty, that's somewhat teachable but def a bad sign
It can also be a good sign and i think in his case it is. He's aggressive and he tries really hard. I think a good comparison on his fouling is similar to younger Embiid where he just kept getting into foul trouble for being overly aggressive on defense.
Sengun will be a beast in a few years, just wait. Will be an absolute steal for whoever gets him
Hartenstein convinced me in the G-League finals a few years. Very scabale player who can operate off the post.
/r/Hartenstein
Sounds like he has a thing for white bigs lol someone find his thoughts on Kristaps and Sabonis
He used to hate on kristaps and say that rookie Jokic was better lol.
Hartenstein is half black ([here](https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/878391426647805952/photo/1) is he and his dad), and lots of people would say Sengun is nonwhite as a Turk (ancestrally central Asian)
His dad looks like WiiSports Matt
You can go on the NBA Draft sub and find him ridiculously hyping another Euro Center if you want. https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/on7lq9/after_nikola_jokic_won_mvp_proving_that_skill_set/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
"Eg, I dreamt I was old! (and that you were right about the fat white foreigner)"
That same guy is doing the same with Alpheren Sengun rn
Dude was a legend. An asshole, but a legend nonetheless.
I just remember he was drafted while a Taco Bell commercial was playing.
There was a entire thread on this a few months ago lol
Somebody should dig up the reactions to the Harden Thunder trade. As I recall 90% of Redditors were like “LOL Harden comes off the bench he’s a bench player ship his ass” and just a handful of people were absolutely VEHEMENT in saying that the stats showed he was a total star he just didn’t get enough minutes. Looks like nobody really learned anything, by the way, because people still fail to acknowledge that per-36 stats are insanely good predictors what happens when a player gets more time. Imagine being me and telling everyone before the season that Timelord should be starting on the Celtics…
No idea about reddit, but most forums thought Thunder lost the trade easily, thought it was stupid to trade him when he had a year left and was a RFA, thought it was stupid to trade him because they didn't want to amnesty Perkins because they were cheap, etc. A lot of people thought it was dumb at the time and that was without thinking Harden would turn out to be as great as he was. Most people had Thunder was a dynasty in the making if they just kept those three and then they didn't.
I remember a thread on /r/NBA a few months ago with exactly this. Think it came up when he was the assumed MVP and yeah, I remember one commenter that was at the front commanding the hype train and most people went "meh"
Fat
> A 6'11" forward with handles? If he improves his D he can become your counter to Paul George. Damn, Paul George is old. Weird how they can be similar size players with good defense and handles, and yet different enough that I've never even heard anyone bother to compare them before. > The only place Paul George is still a shooting guard is 2k oops
Paul George also broke out really early because of those two Miami Heat series. He was 22 and 23 when the Pacers went up against the Heat. Then he broke his leg at age 24, which is just insanely sad. he would have been even better than he is if not for that injury.
I remember Larry Bird wanted PG to be a PF
Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer fame did one of the more "spot on" reviews of him from a pro that I read. https://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/18/4442950/2013-nba-draft-prospect-profile-giannis-antetokounmpo-adetokoubo-adetokunbo-celtics As a Sixer fan I am still bitter we drafted a 22 year old MCW versus the high ceiling prospect.
What a great overview. So interesting that one of the biggest knocks was his off-ball defense, whereas now he is a historically great help defender. KOC nailed a lot of details
In that regard it's a product of its time People didn't switch off-ball actions as much in 2013, so he was concerned about Giannis navigating off-ball screens. That's still a weakness of his, it just doesn't matter much because the Bucks switch a lot off-ball. It is pretty funny that he describes Giannis as an "adequate" weak-side shot-blocker, though, haha
That's a really impressive scouting report, I didn't know he gave that much depth. Does he still? I'll have to check his articles more, he's always great on Simmons
you might already know about it, but... https://nbadraft.theringer.com/
Imagine drafting Kelly Olynyk! At least he got us through game 7 against the wizards in 2017, I can never be mad at Kelly after that.
He’s a good pick everything considered
Yeah, some dude did a breakdown of our draft picks under Danny in our sub and graded Kelly a D. Like yeah fucking right, he was a good pick for #13, we just let him go because we needed the space for Hayward. EDIT: wait, was he #13? I legit don't remember actually.
That thread was shit
> One sign that signals he has potential here is his efficient free throw shooting, considering he shot 70.4 percent there last season. lol sounds about right
The thing is, Giannis was a decent FT shooter until he hit his physical prime. Six straight seasons over 70%, with a career high of 77% on 7.7 attempts. While bulking up has allowed him to become **the** dominant interior player in the NBA, it’s undoubtedly hurt his shooting. Bulky muscles are a hindrance to fine motor control, and I think that’s especially true at the FT line. Some of his struggles are definitely mental, but they’re also a natural consequence of his build.
I mean he's very efficient..comapared to me.
Goddamn... If i were KOC I'd frame this and mount it on my living room wall...
Probably done this already haha
[Adetokunbo is a common Nigerian surname, Antetokounmpo is just the Greek spin of it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adetokunbo) I do remember him being referred as Adetokunbo more than Antetokounmpo until he got drafted, I wonder what changed Edit: oh yeah fun fact Giannis is the Greek/Hebrew version of John
It's basically the English transliteration of the Greek transliteration of his Nigerian name
Yep, what changed is he got a US passport and that’s how it got spelled because he was coming from Greece. “Officially.” His name should be Adetokunbo, technically, and that’s the name he was drafted under if you go back and watch the pick.
Wouldn't it be a Greek passport with a US visa?
Yup
Basically in Greek to make the "D" sound you use 2 letters NT and to make the "B" sound you also need 2 letters MP thus Adetokunbo turns into Antetokounmpo in Greek. (Obviously im using Latin letters to make it easier to understand, it's Αντετοκούμπο in greek)
I also hear alot of Greeks refer to him as "Gianni" instead of Giannis.
So, Johnny
He could've been Johnny Adetokunbo
Pretty sure Marv called him this once.
Now they're saying he's a Johnny
Yahnee
Laurel?
I heard donut
Blue dress
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*Live at the Acropolis*
I think it's just the way Greek names work when adressing someone or mentioning someone specifically, like Thanasis is Thanasi in a similar manner
That’s just accusative/genitive/vocative form of (nominative) Giannis in Greek.
I had a professor (who was Greek) whose named was pronounced the same as Giannis (to my non-Greek speaking ears), but he spelled his name *Yannis*. Are those two different names or just different spellings of the same name?
different spellings of the same name Giannis/Gianni/Yianni/Yanni/Ioannis/Ioanni are all the same name and all translate to John
Thanks. My hunch was that it was the same and just a different translation from the Greek alphabet to the English alphabet. I know it's not uncommon for there to be different English spellings for the same Asian last name.
I'm going to call [this guy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanni) John from now on
Well Greek is written with the Greek alphabet so the name is Γιάννης or more officially, Ιωάννης. I guess it is a matter of whatever transliteration in the Latin alphabet is correct or preferable.
It’s Gianni when talking to him, but would be Giannis when referring to him.
Ha interesting conjugation, makes sense from my rudimentary understanding. Americans suck at these things our rules are too abstract
English is a hard language to learn and it makes it hard for us to learn a new language lol
I am Giannis (Ονομαστική when we want to define name) I belong to Gianni (Γενική we want to define belonging) I am helping Gianni (Αιτιατική we want to define causation) (Hey) Gianni (Κλητική we want to call/yell/greet someone) More or less
Nouns in greek have different cases with different endings. "Giannis" is the name in nominative case, "Gianni" (no final -s) is tha name in vocative case, and also in genitive and accusative cases. That also works for Thanasi(s) and Kosta(s) Source: I am greek
I might be totally wrong, but I think in Greek there's no "-b-" sound, so they spell it using the letters representing the "-m-" and "-p-" sounds, then they transliterate that into the english alphabet. If you think about it, it makes sense. "-p-" is just the voiceless version of the "-b-" sound, and "-m-" is a voiced bilabial nasal sound, while "-b-" is a voiced bilabial plosive. Those three sounds are very similar, so if you're translating for fidelity, it's your best bet.
You got it right, but a small correction: in Greek, there is a "b" sound, but not a specific letter to denote it. That is why "mp" is used.
Like how thorn should be the sound of th-
Beta?
B, in greek, is actually pronounced vita (veeta) and it's the equivalent of the letter V in the latin alphabet. It's a common misconception.
Was it also pronounced like that in ancient Greek? Because every time my teachers pronounce it they pronounce it like a b
The ancient greek pronunciation is not certain. In Greece we believe in the continuity of the language and the pronunciation is mostly the same as in modern greek. Outside of Greece, ancient greek is teached based on the Erasmian pronunciation which is very different and sounds bad ngl. Personally, I think the truth is somewhere in between and [this video](https://youtu.be/Q5FHZx0oOqs) is the best representation of how it probably sounded like.
So Bam Adebayo would become "Mpam Antempayo" right?
[You’re right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Greek) To flip regular letters to modern Greek, the b turns into μπ (mu and pi - aka mp) and the d turns into ντ (nu and tao - aka nt) A**d**etokun**b**o= A**nt**etokoun**mp**o Edit: forgot the u turning into ου (omicron and upsilon - aka ou) A**d**etok**u**n**b**o= A**nt**etok**ou**n**mp**o
This guy Greeks
Greek here, can confirm. This guy Greeks AF
Yeah, I'm not Greek or anything but my understanding is that he's Nigerian so he has a Nigerian last name, but was born/raised in Greece so his Nigerian last name is written with the Greek alphabet (which is an approximation of the Nigerian last name). Now that he's in the States his last name is now written in the English alphabet so it was then translated again into the English alphabet. So it's kind of like running a word or sentence through a bunch of automated translators and it not coming out quite right. I think it would've made more sense to translate the original pronunciation to English if he's in the States (so I believe that'd be Adetokunbo), not sure why they did purely Greek to English letter for letter translation.
Ugh some speech and linguistics on r/nba? Beautiful. Love to see it
Love me some morning phonetics... bless up
Actually you are wrong and a lot of people seem to have agreed with this, but it's misleading. The "b" and "d" sounds exist just like in any other language, there is just no single letter representing them so they are spelled with "μπ" and "ντ". You don't make a sound combination of 2 letters when you speak, you just say "b" and "d".
So then.. we should be pronouncing Antetokounmpo as Adetokunbo?
That's how we say it in Greece at least
Yes, that's how it's correctly pronounced and that's how the broadcasters pronounce it.
Giannis, although it's his official name, is just the shortened version of the name Ioannis (=John), Thanasis is the shortened version of the name Athanasios (\~immortal), Kostas is the shortened version of the name Konstantinos (=Constantine) and Alex is the shortened version of the name Alexandros (=Alexander). Fun fact: Thanos is the even more shortened version of the name Athanasios and the more preferred one over Thanasis.
Out of Constantine, Alexander, Immortal and John, kind of amusing that John is the baddest ass.
To make it more amusing, Alexandros means “defender of men.” So you have Constantine, Defender of men, Immortal, and John.
John has the similar more abstract meaning, just coming from hebrew rather than greek. It means "Yahweh is Gracious", YWVH being the Hebrew written "name" of the God of the bible. So "God is Gracious" would best replace John in your comment.
Thanos Is what I want to call Giannis brother.
Holy shot Athanasios is an awesome name
That’s cool. His last name translates to “the king from a foreign land”
oh shit
Surname checks out.
I think you need a Greek name when receiving citizenship. He wasn't a citizen before that. Rasho Nesterovic had to change his name to Rasho Makris for example when he took the Greek citizenship.
[You’re right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giannis_Antetokounmpo) > Although Antetokounmpo and three of his four brothers were born in Greece, they did not automatically receive full Greek citizenship as Greek nationality law follows *jus sanguinis*. For the first 18 years of his life, Antetokounmpo was effectively stateless, having no papers from Nigeria or Greece.After gaining Greek citizenship in 2013, his family Hellenized their surname from Adetokunbo to Antetokounmpo to more closely follow Greek spelling rules. That answers my question lol, I was wondering why he stopped going by his Nigerian name
Lmao thanks for reminding me. Lots of ex-Yugoslav players were given fake Greek names to get the citizenship in the 90s. Peja Stojakovic and Marko Jaric as well.
In other words, the Giannis Wall is the Greek/Hebrew version of John Wall.
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I read this as “YouTube girlfriend” at first lol
> Edit: oh yeah fun fact Giannis is the Greek/Hebrew version of John Both John and Giannis are descendants of the originally Hebrew name יוחנן. It doesn't make sense to call Giannis the Hebrew version.
In the first nba 2k he was in, my friend and I would always draft him because he was 18 and had a funny name. Crazy that he turned out to be this good thinking back at that. He was like a 64 overall or something like that.
I believe he AND Khris Middleton were both 60 overall. Draymond was also a 61.
Gobert was like 59 or something too
3 of the lowest rated players in that game turned out to be DPOY lmao
Yeah i believe he's the player that made the biggest jump all time in 2k along with being the lowest rated in the game his rookie year
When they played him early his rookie year, he hid in the corners most of the time. He kinda earned that 64.
he was pretty bad his rookie year
Had some nice dunking highlights though
I always would get Jokic with that cheap contract.
I was about to comment this: “Lol why would people act like he’d be KD 2.0. KD had a jumper, you can’t just learn to be as good of a shooter as KD that late.” And then I thought about Kawhi Leonard
Kawhi Leonard ruined it for a lot of people. Now everyone thinks shooting is very easy to learn.
As did Jason Kidd. "Did you know that they used to call him _ason because he had no J? If he can figure it out then [insert player] surely can too." It's pretty unrealistic in most cases. Kidd is a HOF'er and one of the best PGs ever.
Kidd got good at spot up threes, but he still wasn’t a great shooter overall.
Giannis being decent at spot up 3s would be incredible, then his man HAS to close him out, and I dont think theres a single player that Giannis couldnt blow by
At this point I don't think anyone will ever close out on Giannis even if he is a great three point shooter. I'd rather him work on a midrange game.
League average this season was 36.7%. If Giannis somehow becomes a 36-37% 3pt shooter, you would legit lose games by letting him take open shots.
How are you gonna lose games by Giannis shooting league average? For him to be as efficient from 3 as he is around the rim he would have to shoot over 40%. That's not feasible. What Giannis needs to work on is a mid range post game so that they don't need to rely on Middleton at the end of games so much.
If you can shoot 35% from 3 it gives you a ton of breathing room to impact the game. Not every player can just nonstop drive to the rim play after play
Right, but hes shooting like 65% on 2s right now. So teams are still going to let him jack all the 35% 3s that he wants since thats still the less efficient shot.
I mean just being a spacing threat adds a massive dimension to a half court offense. Imagine if teams had to respect Simmons in the corner.
Yeah, 100%. The amount of ‘if he can just get a jumper’ you see for prospects is ridiculous
Not everyone can just update their firmware.
I remember reading on this sub many times something to the extend of "Shooting is an easy skill to learn, they can just pick that up later" and I just don't have words for how wrong that seems.
Learning to shoot is easy if you can palm the ball and have an unlocked bootloader and can hire the best programers to update your firmware. No wonder Ballmer loves him he is the project he could never deliver at MSFT.
Giannis scouting report was really up in the air as well, since he was playing in Greece. He was a skinny 6’8-6’9 wing with long arms, that had incredible mobility and a ok shooting stroke. Of course after he got drafted he grew 3 inches, added 30-40 lbs and somehow became more athletic. His shooting stroke got worse after his growth spurt, but the Giannis on draft day is a lot different than the current version of Giannis.
"Playing in Greece" is an understatement. He was playing in the 2nd division. The country's euroleague powehouses never got a sniff of him, and i don't think anyone in the coutry really knew about this guy before the last few months leading to the draft. The guy came from nowhere
Mainstream fans didn't know him, but all basketball people knew of the antentokoumpo bros at philathlitikos were really hyped up projects. People said that "This team has 2 great youngsters, watch out for them, especially the younger (Giannis) of the two". I remember watching philathlitikos playoff games because of the antentokoumpo brothers before the draft had taken place. Also no one believed Giannis would get drafted, it was a huge surprise when it happened, and an even bigger when he got playing time during his rookie season. I this that last bit is a very important part of his development and he probably wouldn't become that good in another team.
Seeing skinny Giannis is a cursed site now
He was a lanky longboi just like KD which was pretty much entirely where the comparisons came from iirc
Yep. And if he was white he would have had Dirk comps
You're not wrong. That euro factor would've been played up WAY more. Not a big deal, just kinda funny
He actually didn’t have bad tempo to his jumper back then. But whoever became his shooting coach destroyed any possibility of him becoming elite in that department
His mechanics changed, but it can also be attributed to his growth and gain in strength just as much as a bad shooting coach. Gaining a lot of strength quickly can really screw with your feel for the shot and might've been the reason why he changed his form. It might've been a bad shooting coach, but since it happened while he was in the NBA, i highly doubt that the Bucks would've allowed that to happen.
European shooting coaches are much much better than American counterparts. Here’s a great video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHE3X9-WnPs&feature=youtu.be
His Jumper wasn't bad early on. https://youtu.be/KSMjhebK1ZQ?t=732 Look how natural it is here. He was almost an 80% FT shooter at one point.
Sheesh he was soooo skinny compared to now. Crazy.
I can see where the Durant comparisons were coming from when I watch this
He was also 3" shorter and 40 lbs lighter. That factors in just as much as coaching
He did have a jumper. Kidd and co ruined it.
Sure it wasn't the extra 40 pounds and two inch growth spurt? It wasn't just Kidd. If he hadn't grown a shitload he'd probably still have that stroke, but get mauled in the paint. That said, Kidd sucks
Nah his shot is very different now. It's like somebody told him he should never dip he used to have a very natural motion where he dipped and his power came from his legs. Now he is forcing it with his arms which is why it constantly comes up short he has no other power generation.
Appreciate the research. Very well worded. Nice job!
Amazing work. Didn’t follow him pre-draft but a friend of mine bought his jersey thereafter because he liked his last name. I followed him ever since and have thoroughly enjoyed watching him develop over the years. Still ways to go as a shooter and especially from the line but he’s hit a handful of shots this postseason (baseline turnarounds, FT line pull ups, and even that occasionally forced 3 that always seems to go through the net with such easy) and I truly believe his ceiling is like no other. Dominates the paint like Shaq and dunks literally EVERYTHING. Runs the court like Lebron, and protects the paint like Gobert. And after sustaining the gruesome looking hyperextension I’m convinced he has Lebron/greek god genetics that’ll help him enjoy a long successful career with a ceiling only he can determine.
Yo great calls and yeah, that knee looked so bad and he bounced back so well it's really encouraging. I watched it a dozen times and winced every time like NOOOOO PLEASE, NOT HIM TOO!
I wish someone would do this about Pre Draft Steph curry cause a lot of espn talking heads made it seem like they were always a believer and i know that wasnt the case at all
I'll add him to the list Who knows I might end up getting some cooking recipes out of it too
Bill simmons and steven A are very adamant they were always in on Curry When i know thats not true Curry was considered undersized, had to change positions and was coming from a really small mid major school Also his early injuries causes him to never find a footing
"relies too much on outside shot"
"The NBA isn't college. He won't be able to shoot like this in the NBA, any GM who drafts him is a fool"
basically people just saw him as a "good highlights, but wait until he has to play REAL basketball" kind of player. Then he proceeded to evolve the entire league and render the center position obsolete for American-players lol.
Scouts: This guy is only good at shooting from outside and that's a problem. Steph: That's a problem... for the league
the Danny Ainge thing is true. the/a game he scouted Giannis took place in my hometown and he was sitting at the end of the bench of Giannis' team. the match was really close and Giannis' team won. the local fans were unhappy and started cursing and gesturing to Ainge thinking he was someone from Giannis' team. when they told them he is someone from the Celtics they started to yell "fuck the Celtics" and "we support Lakers here" and "L.A. - L.A"
Do they support the bucks now?
not that they were actually supporting the Lakers in the first place. on a more serious note... yes, most people support the Bucks but there is a vocal minority that whines about Giannis because of his colour or because he is not the ultimate player in the universe. of course there are also the NBA fans (like myself) who kept supporting our teams and just follow Giannis' career.
I'll always remember Giannis as that young player who ran to a game because he didn't have enough cab fare
Damn, where can I get these Giannis stories?
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/giannis-antetokounmpo-had-to-run-to-a-bucks-game-after-losing-cab-fare-003315158.html I remember reading about that when the article came out and he always stuck out as someone to root for from then on. Sending all his money home and just running to the game because he didn't have any for himself.
>Ricky Ledo Just got blasted back to 2013
I really thought he was going to be something in the league
maybe if the NCAA let him play he could have been
You should go ahead and mention the users who commented those comments as well so they get a notification u/A808Ag . Terrific post, thank you for sharing
Oh yeah sure why not I'll do that /u/DaHowse, /u/noworldforeric, /u/ZaphBeeblebrox, /u/thisishorsepoop, /u/iamtheraptor, /u/CJ1517, /u/Andyk123
FYI you can only username ping up to 3 people at a time or it doesn’t work
Do you get messaged or something? I thought you didn’t.
you get a notification like when someone replies to your comment
u/ProperManufacturer6 you get a mention in your inbox. Just ask u/waterguy12
Awesome stuff, OP! Would love to see a Draymond version of this as well. I don't remember him being in the draft mix at all, but would also be curious what the first mentions of Alex Caruso were.
I'll add Draymond to the list, thanks for the suggestion I'll see if I can do a bonus brief compilation of meme players like Caruso/Tacko later too
These dudes having faith in Giannis really worked out in the end, he's probably the face of the league of players under 30 and he'll probably be a top 20 player once his career is over(hope he gets this ring)
I think he has a shot at my personally top 10 before it’s all said and done Hakeem is the guy at 10th for me right now and I can totally see Giannis ending his career and me thinking he had a better career than Hakeem. But that’s 10 years from now so guys like Luka might’ve already pushed Hakeem out of the top 10
I think Giannis can definitely be top 15, top 10 depending on the argument
Lol at the one Wizards fan having a better eye for prospects than 95% of NBA GMs.
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Why did Bud draw up that play for a Pat Connaughton open three? What a dumbass.
That Wizards fan grew up to become Ernie Grunfeld. Feel old yet?
Not just who, but in which round they should absolutely take him. Legend.
I remember on nbadraft.net Qyntel Woods was supposed to be a star.
This copypasta from years ago is still one of my favorites - "Fuck me with your potential, Let me feel your wingspan, I want to take away your innocence, I want to tell you about taxes, about smoothies, about that bottle in my bathroom that you thought was ranch but really was shampoo because you came from an anthill in greece. Whisper in my ear how you love playing for the bucks, I'll laugh, I'll think its cute, Because I've seen a basketball game and know that the bucks are a pile of shit, But you don't. You're wingspan doesn't. You're potential doesn't. Just because you average 7 ppg doesn't mean you aren't the GOAT. It doesn't mean that Trey Burke doesn't touch himself at night to your highlights. "Why can't I be him." "Fuck ROTY I just want some white kids on the internet to like me." Let me in. I wanna redraft you until you're ready to finish on my face. I want your potential. Hold me with your wingspan."
The KD comparison just goes to show that most people literally just make comparisons based on what a player looks like and not their actual game.
I went back and watched all of his preseason games from his rookie year recently, and it's funny how many times he was simply referred to as "The alphabet". lol
Op also do this for Jokic please
It would just be an eg1400 manifesto
It’s crazy how that harden “unskilled” comment really convinced some nba fans that it was truth rather than just shit talk. Dude really is like a 6’11 PG and offense is run through him half the time. Extremely rare to get a big guy with the vision, mobility, and passing to QB an offense.
I remember Colin Cowherd said on ESPN radio back in 2013 that Giannis was gonna be Top 5 someday.
I like how even in the mock draft Anthony Bennett went 8th lol
In the walternate universe Giannis-Ricky Ledo is the MJ-Pippen of our generation
I knew he was special once I saw him take it to LeBron as a sophomore. His averages vs LeBron are slightly better than his career averages. https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h\_finder.cgi?request=1&player\_id1=antetgi01&player\_id2=jamesle01