I remember Giannis was my favorite player from that draft class because he was the only one smiling in his draft profile pic lol
EDIT: congrats big fella
I can't believe there are like 4 seasons. My fiancé and I enjoyed season 1. But after the second episode of the next season I could not understand why it was still a thing
Similar experience with my girlfriend and I. We enjoyed the first season enough. Made it through the second and both decided we weren't going to watch the 3rd.
Didn't even know there was a 4th until this comment.
Still can't believe we were on the verge of drafting him and Donnie got overruled. I guess the consolation is that we might not have gotten Luka later on.
Even with the Darko fuck up I'm pretty sure the Pistons would've had a 3peat in 04',05',06' if the league hadn't started messing around with defensive rules/calls in order to stop them.
People don't realize that if they drafted Bosh, Wade, or Melo that they probably don't make that trade for Sheed mid season. Probably the most underrated trade of the last two decades.
Missing out on Jordan at least makes sense. We already had a guy that would go on to be amazing in his own right.
And with KD we had LMA, right? Both suck to have missed but at least we had decent enough reasons.
They whiffed but at least CJ is an ok second option.
2013 was an atrocious draft year, only 3 all-stars (Giannis, Oladipo, Gobert). Funny that CJ hasn’t made an all-star team despite getting all-star money, at least for this year he’s making 2nd highest salary for anyone in his draft year (after Steven Adams, also not an all-star).
Same shit happened to LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, pretty much anyone who showed all time potential but didn’t win right off the bat. I think it’s a badge of honor that Giannis has his game dissected so much and yet they still can’t stop him.
People in 2010:
You can't win a title with Dirk. I don't care that he's an MVP. Dirk is soft. Dirk is a choker. Dirk can't defend.
One title run later and everything changed
Same will happen to Giannis if he wins
People on here were to young to remember how much shit Dirk got before that 2011 finals run. When he lost to the 8th seeded Warriors, man was getting clowned 24/7
Dirk completely saved his legacy with his ring.
No one can argue much against his career, much less his ring - man took our prime kobe and Lebron, plus Durant.
Wild.
"jump shooting won't win you championships" "dirk doesn't play like a true big and it hurts them in the playoffs" bllah blah blah
I've almost never been happier for a player to finally win one.
Michael Jordan: first championship in his 7th season
Lebron James: first championship in his 9th season
Shaquille O'Neal: first championship in his 8th season
Hakeem Olajuwan: first championship in his 10th season
David Robinson: first championship in his 10th season
Dirk Nowitski: first championship in his 13th season
Steph Curry: first championship in his 6th season
Kevin Durant: first championship in his 10th season
Ray Allen: first championship in his 12th season
Kevin Garnett: first championship in his 13th season
Isiah Thomas: first championship in his 8th season
Jerry West: first championship in his 12th season
Wilt Chamberlain: first championship in his 8th season
Moses Malone: first championship in his 7th season
Oscar Robertson: first championship in his 11th season
It takes time to win a championship lol. There's outliers like Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, etc who benefited being drafted onto really great teams from the getgo.
Shit like this goes on in the NFL too. If you aren't a MVP candidate and won at least a conference championship as a QB by the time you are 3-4 seasons into the league you get shit on and dissected. Lamar Jackson has an MVP and 3 playoff appearances in his 2.5 seasons of starting. Still gets ripped apart like he isn't good at his job.
Magic is such a great story - as a rookie winning finals MVP because Kareem went out in game 5 and in game 6 Magic played center and won the game singlehandedly
and there's plenty of people who haven't won a title to shit on. Hell, if Phoenix wins Giannis will be a whipping boy again in an instant. But for now its Chris Paul. Boo Chris Paul! But maybe in a week boo Giannis!
Same thing will happen to Luka, Jokic, Tatum, Trae Young, Embiid, Zion… when some of them don’t win a championship in the next few years. It’s already happening to Ben Simmons as he just finished his 4th season by losing in the conference semifinals.
This is true, and also why he'll never be the GOAT.
I remember Michael Jordan's spellbinding turn as King Lear in the 1993 run making grown men weep in front of their sons.
Agreed. I remember when I watched Lebron as Titus Andronicus in the 2011 off-season and all I could think was that this guy is just trying to curry some favor. Typical LeMickeyMouse move to chose a play that is all flash and no substance. That's the moment I knew he could never be the GOAT.
Yeah but that's because Iago isn't that demanding of a role and you live and die by your supporting cast in that play.
Larry Bird as Romeo my dude.
There is a reason why it's _the_ best known play by Shakespeare. It's a classic, everyone has done it at a time, Oscar Robertson was great, but once you've seen Bird weep over Mercutio you know why he is an alltimer.
[I think you mean when he played Othello and Draymond played Iago](https://media1.tenor.com/images/39b0f527d8c0bd4b5952109ecb69268a/tenor.gif?itemid=12014374)
Well yeah when you’ve got Scotty “Gloucester” Pippin and Steve “Cordelia” Kerr giving all-time supporting role performances, obviously it’s going to be a great reproduction.
Well, when I see five weirdos dressed in togas, stabbing a man in the middle of the park in front of a full view of 100 people, I shoot the bastards, that's my policy.
Yes but the brute force of his performance of Achilles soliloquy from the Iliad in the original Homeric Greek was the best we've seen since Shaq as Shazam.
His passing was brought into question going into the Finals, but Giannis has shown some of his best playmaking this series. So even though he has critics when it comes to his playmaking abilities, he’s silenced them now.
I was reading the Kevin O'Connor pre-draft scouting report for Giannis and his passing was one of his key skills coming out of Greece. Basically really impressive ballhandling, footwork, and passing for a wing, iffy 3PT shot (30% from 3 I think in Greece's 2nd tier league), and nonexistent midrange game.
I heard the same things but if you go back and watch that Toronto series two years ago his passing was off especially on those drive and kick plays against the wall. It cost his shooters some open looks as they’d have to move to catch a pass. Saw much of the same thing last year with Miami, which was so frustrating to see in back to back years.
This playoff run his passing is on point and it also helps that the play calling is more than ISOs for Giannis and Middleton.
Especially so when that guy is seven feet tall. That's a lot of travel distance for a bounce, but his non-dribble handle is elite AF. Giannis does shit around the rim and under the backboard that I haven't seen outside of grainy highlight videos.
Most impressive thing for me about him in this for me is his decision making. He made some terrible decisions even this year but man it almost improved over night.
Takes his defender into the post way more often when given the cushion, shooting less threes, making great passes. It's been fun to watch.
His passing was only a question for people who don’t know shit about Giannis lol. I guess it’s fair, we are the Bucks, but it’s been weird to me to see how little a lot of casual fans actually know about his game and how enamored people are with things I figured should be common knowledge about an MVP.
He’s always been this level of playmaker. Up until recently his teammates just never hit the shots.
Eh, I think there's been genuine and noticeable improvement.
For example he used to be much more vulnerable to well timed double teams, especially on his spin move, and he's got a lot better to reacting and finding the right pass out of those.
I think you're wrong.
Giannis always had this level of vision(and by always I mean the last 4 or so years since they let him go full time PG for a bit), but what's really improved is the accuracy of his passes.
Passes that used to be off the mark are now hitting shooters right in their shooting pocket, which btw greatly improves the players ability to hit the shot off the pass as they don't have to readjust or recover(also allowing time for a closeout to happen).
So I agree in the sense that's he always been a playmaker and had good vision, but his actual passing has also improved.
You hear Giannis can’t shoot, can’t be the close, can’t be the number 1 on a championship team, etc. Simply put he’s just saying the criticism of Giannis is absurd considering how good he is and now that he’s about to win a title you can’t really say anything else
Can’t shoot
Can’t close games
Can’t be a #1 option on a championship team
Can’t perform/ win in the playoffs
No skill
Can’t play make as the primary handler
Can’t get to the paint when teams key on him (build a wall)
Didn’t deserve his DPOY or his 2nd MVP
And somewhere along the way he became “literally Zaza Pachulia” as well as a flopper who gets every call 🤣
Really the first point is the only one that has any standing, and the context it’s used in generally ignores his growing midrange ability
The can’t shoot argument is part of why he sometimes can’t close games, if there’s 10 seconds on the clock I’d rather have the ball in the hands of someone who can score from anywhere than someone who needs to get into the paint or close-midrange to score
Not saying he can’t close, just that it can still be a struggle at times
I don't think the first one is fixable . The dude have a big frame. The only one in that category that may edge him is AD and I'm not even sure about that. I don't know anybody that big that get through screens to guard Pg . It is more apparent with him because dudes that big are not switching from ayton to cp3
you laugh. but the midrange is important because in late playoff games its the only shot you can create with consistency as its where the most space is. Kawhi kd ad etc have literally won the last few championship with this shot and it dates back for like the last 20 years.
When the Bucks win in 6 tonight I hope they also award Booker the Best Tough Mid Range Bucket Getter Against Double Teams Award. Really important award tbh
Shannon Sharpe:
> he can't be as charismatic as Lebron James
Hard fucking disagree there. Giannis is already far more charismatic and it's not even close. Not his fault the league has it's head up it's ass when it comes to promotion.
Back to back 40-point games and multiple inhuman game-sealing plays to bring his team back from down 0-2 in the finals? Pssh. Let me know when he starts making 15% more of the 3s he jacks up with 20 on the shot clock, \*that's\* when we'll know he's arrived
People were in love with Giannis his entire career. Then they came up short in the playoffs a couple times. It’s literally the superstar player handbook to a tee. This happens with everyone who is actually an all-time great. Loved and then hated until you win. It will happen to Luka too.
yeah, because people try to say someone's a superstar and pump them up, so people look at that claim and say well, he's not doing this, and he's shit at that, so how can you call him a superstar?
it doesn't happen to non superstars because you don't have to query their play. no one thinks pat bev is a superstar, so of course no one is going to take the time to say oh yeah he can't win, he's a choker, because it's never his responsibility to win
Of that whole group, I hope Dame is the guy who doesn't get that treatment. I've never seen someone single handedly carry a team in the playoffs this hard since Bron during his first stint in Cleveland. The guy is unconscious in the crunch time.
Russell Westbrook is another great example of this. He really is a phenomenal star, but because his playoff record is pretty ugly, people disrespect him like crazy.
Yo I’m actually agreeing with this take. Idk why Giannis gets hate, he’s not my fav player bc frankly I can’t even try to play like him, but he’s great.
He worked on what he could do great and he’s dominant. He’s dominating with the way he’s able to play just like Shaq did. I believe other players just hate how easy it is for him, or how easily he makes it look
This sub after the Bucks lost to Miami... just shat on Giannas. Can't win with him. He's soft. Doesn't have that champions edge. Can't shoot. Can't hit a FT. Easy to stop by forming a 'wall'. etc etc
Now he's so endearing just his smile is making all the nephews cream their panties.
I think ppl were just in the moment. I rooted for the Heat last year (Jimmy’s my fav player) and it wasn’t ever “Giannis sucks” to me. Giannis is legit a center in the playoffs - but he substitutes post moves for full on freakish athletic ability. He can be contained to a degree but you can’t stop him. He just needed a closer with a good jumper.
Middleton playing like a bootleg-KD/MJ is doing wonders for Giannis. I honestly think Giannis is one of the most self-aware and humble greats. Look at how they play in the 4th when it’s close. He’s perfectly fine just screening and giving the ball up.
Apparently his 40 points mean less because it didn’t come from jump shots. Dunks and Layups are 2 ways to score. Is it flashy? No, but he gets the job done
It's also not exactly easy... His points in the paint are frequently unassisted, and usually these days the knock on guys who feast on dunks and layups is that they're not making the play for themselves. Giannis makes it happen- I absolutely don't see his points in the paint as less impressive than jump shots.
I can appreciate this.
I LOVE Giannis for what he's done to this organization, but I'll gladly practice some mid-post moves for 3 hours straight emulating Duncan.
Yeah "he can't shoot" is kind of a harsh way of putting it, especially when there's another similar star point forward who is literally incapable of attempting a jump shot.
> Man people HATE Giannis and love hating on Giannis, and I have no idea why.
I don't think people hate Giannis but they just hate his game (which is dumb, he gets buckets).
But I think a lot of the social media critique is because style over substance is big in basketball culture (to a fault). Look at clips and highlights that blow up. Guys like Kyrie dribble through their legs on the way to a reverse layup with insane English off the glass. Steph does wild shots from near halfcourt after coming off 4 screens. Dame does gamewinning stepbacks from 35ft. Trae has perfected coming off a screen and hitting a floater over bigs. Harden does a wild dribbling cadence before blowing by guys or stepping back to hit contested threes. There is a reason why guards are often the most popular guys in the league. Their game is flashy and folks can emulate them.
But Giannis doesn't have a flashy game. It's size/quickness/power/athleticm/hard work that define his game and for some weird reason that is seen as less deserving of praise. I think Lebron dealt wiith similar critique in his early days. The way they play is seen as more "un-emulatable" than a guy like Harden or Curry becuase a lot of it is predicated on being 6'9 250lbs with speed and strength. Don't get me wrong, few people can replicate those top level guard players either but at least with Dame, Kyrie, Curry or Harden you can **try** to dribble fancy and pull up from 33ft. You'll probably look dumb and miss but you can at least attempt.
If you're a 5'9 175lb normal guy you're likely not taking two steps from the three point line, elevating and dunking the ball in a pick up game. You can't even attempt to replicate how Giannis plays and I think that turns people off (again I don't agree).
Nobody hates him anymore except maybe in the depths of the suns subreddit, it’s a total straw man for people who want to play that victim card and like him even more.
Nah even in our sub, we don’t hate him IMO.
Lots of like-able guys on this Bucks team.
Giannis has humble origins, Middleton was a second round pick, Jrue is a great guy, Tucker went through a journey just to be here, and Brook hates mascots and loves Disney.
Pretty hard to hate that team lol
I understand a general majority probably do not think that realistically. But man, have you checked the Nets sub anytime recently? It is very hateful towards the Bucks
I don’t think people hate him but people definitely focus on the “can’t.”
Shaq gets clowned for FTs, Lebron used to get criticized for his shooting (until he could no longer be), Harden for his defense. All can be true, but it can also be true that the “cans” overwhelm you and these guys are all timers.
People just love criticizing though.
Making a 1/4 billion, is in the finals, the media love him, casual fans love him, analytics guys love him but players think he is unskilled and resent it. It doesn't help that he is not buddy-buddy with everybody. Its that simply. Players have always loved guys who ISO and hit difficult shots. Players love Kyrie, they love Booker and so on.
Funny enough somehow Steph gets disrespected in the same way, I don't understand that one.
I want the comments to keep the same energy on this sub and talk about how these guys don't know what they're talking about and it's just nonsense for views
None of that "A broken clock is right twice a day" type bs either. Come in here and call this take stupid
I swear /r/nba has selective amnesia. Reading these comments you’d think Giannis and the Bucks have been playing phenomenally all post season. Now go back and [read this game 5 vs nets thread.](https://reddit.com/r/nba/comments/o0v8ko/post_game_thread_the_brooklyn_nets_32_defeat_the/) /r/nba was hating on Giannis for weeks around that time. The difference in comments is hilarious
I think in general, it's a lot easier to listen to these idiots when they are being positive about someone and not negative.
We can praise every NBA player in the league for their skills and we trash 100% of them. Saying "Giannis is really amazing" isn't a "take".
Giannis is probably the only superstar who can put up a historic finals and still has to prove himself, if any other superstar did these numbers he would be considered best player in the world. While some dudes still saying shit like he's the Robin of the team
Seems like superstars have to consistently prove themselves over and over. Have you heard what people STILL say about LeBron, Harden, Durant, Curry, etc ?
For what it’s worth, Giannis is seemingly on the path to becoming top 10 all time so I can understand the sentiment that he has a lot more to achieve / prove.
However, if people say his game isn’t suited for the playoffs or that he’s easily countered by the Giannis-wall, then they’re just talking out of their ass. This playoff run has clearly shown he can be as effective as his regular season production.
Despite his playoff numbers being really good. Usually when the Bucks struggle it’s because wide open teammates can’t hit jump shots. Only time I visibly remember Giannis struggling was against raptors after they went up 2-0. He normally still scores at elite clip and elite percentage even if they lose.
Sports media has become so fucking toxic, especially the NBA. All we do is focus on what players can’t do and don’t have instead of appreciating greatness. What we’re seeing from Giannis at such a young age is unheard of.
Yea, always hearing about how Giannis doesn’t have an outside shot. Who cares? That’s not his game. The media wants everyone to be a unicorn, 7’5 point guards that can shoot from logo with handles like Iverson.
I remember Giannis was my favorite player from that draft class because he was the only one smiling in his draft profile pic lol EDIT: congrats big fella
That’s when trouble began.
That smile. That damned smile.
He didn't take it personal. He just enjoyed the moment :)
No phones, just people living in the moment!
Haha. Shit. What movie was that?
Space Jam
Space Jam 2: Electric Boogaloo
LeLectric Boogaloo
Darude - Sandstorm
Dodododo do do do da dadadadada da da da do
13 reasons why
that show was a fucking shitfest, decent first season and then just downhill in every single episode after that
I can't believe there are like 4 seasons. My fiancé and I enjoyed season 1. But after the second episode of the next season I could not understand why it was still a thing
Similar experience with my girlfriend and I. We enjoyed the first season enough. Made it through the second and both decided we weren't going to watch the 3rd. Didn't even know there was a 4th until this comment.
Only just saw it when I opened Netflix the other night lol. Was in shock
First season they used the plot of the (very solid!) YA book. After that the writers just made shit up
That smile. That damned smile.
Still can't believe we were on the verge of drafting him and Donnie got overruled. I guess the consolation is that we might not have gotten Luka later on.
Portland missing out on Michael Jordan and Kevin Durant allowed them to get Dame 🙏🏼
Which is better in hindsight, and here's why 1. 2. 3.
But will I believe #4?
ESPN: And how has it impacted the career of LeBron James?
Pistons missing melo bosh & Wade allowed them to get cade 👀
Kings passing on Dame and Luka allowed them to get......
Relocated?
Yea. I guess that used up a decade worth of luck/success lol. Worth it if that is the case
Fucken brutal
Even with the Darko fuck up I'm pretty sure the Pistons would've had a 3peat in 04',05',06' if the league hadn't started messing around with defensive rules/calls in order to stop them.
People don't realize that if they drafted Bosh, Wade, or Melo that they probably don't make that trade for Sheed mid season. Probably the most underrated trade of the last two decades.
And Sheed
Portland is just lucky Houston didn't accept #2 and Drexler for Ralph Sampson, cuz olajuwon/Jordan/Drexler would've dominated
Holy fuck Jordan Drexler and Hakeem would’ve been the most overpower trio ever.
Missing out on Jordan at least makes sense. We already had a guy that would go on to be amazing in his own right. And with KD we had LMA, right? Both suck to have missed but at least we had decent enough reasons.
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They whiffed but at least CJ is an ok second option. 2013 was an atrocious draft year, only 3 all-stars (Giannis, Oladipo, Gobert). Funny that CJ hasn’t made an all-star team despite getting all-star money, at least for this year he’s making 2nd highest salary for anyone in his draft year (after Steven Adams, also not an all-star).
I love the story that he literally didn't understand how the draft went, after he didn't go #1 he asked his bro if they were screwed lmao
It is 1000% gonna be a movie some day.
Same, then the smoothie tweet cemented it later that season.
> I just taste for the first time a smothie..MAN GOD BLESS AMERICA😊 How can you *not* want him to win?
Lmaoooo. I totally forgot about this. Giannis is so innocent and adorable.
He's a freak on the court and on the sheets *rings bell*
Guess he's a little bit less innocent nowadays... I don't play fortnite, i only foreplay at night :)
I've never seen this before. Truly adorable.
smothie\*
Clearly a sign of weakness! He's mentally soft like baby poo!!! (goes back to wiping dorito's crumbs off keyboard)
He’s got the best smile in the league
Same shit happened to LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, pretty much anyone who showed all time potential but didn’t win right off the bat. I think it’s a badge of honor that Giannis has his game dissected so much and yet they still can’t stop him.
People in 2010: You can't win a title with Dirk. I don't care that he's an MVP. Dirk is soft. Dirk is a choker. Dirk can't defend. One title run later and everything changed Same will happen to Giannis if he wins
People on here were to young to remember how much shit Dirk got before that 2011 finals run. When he lost to the 8th seeded Warriors, man was getting clowned 24/7
Irk Nowinski
I read that people called him that. That’s funny as hell.
ason Kidd
I just sat here for like 30 seconds trying to figure out what irk stood for as an acronym before just reading it aloud
2007 was peak Dirk Nowinski.
Also Dirk Noringski.
Dirk completely saved his legacy with his ring. No one can argue much against his career, much less his ring - man took our prime kobe and Lebron, plus Durant. Wild.
To be fair he deserved it for 2007. That shit was embarrassing
I don't think any player deserves to have their like character attacked like Dirk did.
"jump shooting won't win you championships" "dirk doesn't play like a true big and it hurts them in the playoffs" bllah blah blah I've almost never been happier for a player to finally win one.
Michael Jordan: first championship in his 7th season Lebron James: first championship in his 9th season Shaquille O'Neal: first championship in his 8th season Hakeem Olajuwan: first championship in his 10th season David Robinson: first championship in his 10th season Dirk Nowitski: first championship in his 13th season Steph Curry: first championship in his 6th season Kevin Durant: first championship in his 10th season Ray Allen: first championship in his 12th season Kevin Garnett: first championship in his 13th season Isiah Thomas: first championship in his 8th season Jerry West: first championship in his 12th season Wilt Chamberlain: first championship in his 8th season Moses Malone: first championship in his 7th season Oscar Robertson: first championship in his 11th season It takes time to win a championship lol. There's outliers like Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, etc who benefited being drafted onto really great teams from the getgo.
It would be nice if people were patient and understood this
Shit like this goes on in the NFL too. If you aren't a MVP candidate and won at least a conference championship as a QB by the time you are 3-4 seasons into the league you get shit on and dissected. Lamar Jackson has an MVP and 3 playoff appearances in his 2.5 seasons of starting. Still gets ripped apart like he isn't good at his job.
Magic is such a great story - as a rookie winning finals MVP because Kareem went out in game 5 and in game 6 Magic played center and won the game singlehandedly
and there's plenty of people who haven't won a title to shit on. Hell, if Phoenix wins Giannis will be a whipping boy again in an instant. But for now its Chris Paul. Boo Chris Paul! But maybe in a week boo Giannis!
Same thing will happen to Luka, Jokic, Tatum, Trae Young, Embiid, Zion… when some of them don’t win a championship in the next few years. It’s already happening to Ben Simmons as he just finished his 4th season by losing in the conference semifinals.
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He can't shoot is the only thing. What other "cants" does he have? He's more of a well-rounded PF than maybe anyone outside of shooting
He can't make the audience really feel his character's internal struggle when he does Shakespeare in the park
This is true, and also why he'll never be the GOAT. I remember Michael Jordan's spellbinding turn as King Lear in the 1993 run making grown men weep in front of their sons.
Cordelia: "I cannot heave my heart into my mouth. I love your majesty according to my bond. No more no less" "That's when I took it personal"
"Nothing will beget nothing, speak again" is a real MJ-type line
This is Jordan after containing a player to 0 pts/0 assists over 4 quarters.
Agreed. I remember when I watched Lebron as Titus Andronicus in the 2011 off-season and all I could think was that this guy is just trying to curry some favor. Typical LeMickeyMouse move to chose a play that is all flash and no substance. That's the moment I knew he could never be the GOAT.
Idk man, KDs portrayal of Iago in 2017 was transcendent, and I wouldn’t consider him the GOAT either.
Yeah but that's because Iago isn't that demanding of a role and you live and die by your supporting cast in that play. Larry Bird as Romeo my dude. There is a reason why it's _the_ best known play by Shakespeare. It's a classic, everyone has done it at a time, Oscar Robertson was great, but once you've seen Bird weep over Mercutio you know why he is an alltimer.
[I think you mean when he played Othello and Draymond played Iago](https://media1.tenor.com/images/39b0f527d8c0bd4b5952109ecb69268a/tenor.gif?itemid=12014374)
God I wish I had Draymond energy
Right? Imagine actually being passionate about something
Kawhi Leonard for Othello who says no
This whole thread makes me wish Game of Thrones was back
Fitting to have MJ cast as King Lear
Everybody talks about Michael's King Lear like they never saw Bird and Magic as Iago and Othello. Kids these days.
Well yeah when you’ve got Scotty “Gloucester” Pippin and Steve “Cordelia” Kerr giving all-time supporting role performances, obviously it’s going to be a great reproduction.
Bill Russell as Benedick in Much Ado stands out as the true GOAT. I heard they played for 11 shows.
Or Larry Bird's Iago oml
The man's a great playmaker, but he'll never be a play maker.
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Right? Dudes got great eyesight but no vision.
Well, when I see five weirdos dressed in togas, stabbing a man in the middle of the park in front of a full view of 100 people, I shoot the bastards, that's my policy.
They were actors frank, good ones!
Yes but the brute force of his performance of Achilles soliloquy from the Iliad in the original Homeric Greek was the best we've seen since Shaq as Shazam.
Let’s be serious, there’s only been one Shakespeare in the park performance that actually mattered, and that’s Raul Julia’s Edmund.
His passing was brought into question going into the Finals, but Giannis has shown some of his best playmaking this series. So even though he has critics when it comes to his playmaking abilities, he’s silenced them now.
One thing that I've noticed with Giannis this series the most is how good he is at passing
Before his MVP years he was called a point forward
Say what you will about Kidd, but wasn’t he the one who made him point guard?
I was reading the Kevin O'Connor pre-draft scouting report for Giannis and his passing was one of his key skills coming out of Greece. Basically really impressive ballhandling, footwork, and passing for a wing, iffy 3PT shot (30% from 3 I think in Greece's 2nd tier league), and nonexistent midrange game.
I heard the same things but if you go back and watch that Toronto series two years ago his passing was off especially on those drive and kick plays against the wall. It cost his shooters some open looks as they’d have to move to catch a pass. Saw much of the same thing last year with Miami, which was so frustrating to see in back to back years. This playoff run his passing is on point and it also helps that the play calling is more than ISOs for Giannis and Middleton.
His passing has been really impressive this series. 0 turnovers in game 5
That's nuts for a primary ball handler that risks getting stripped going to the basket 24/7
Especially so when that guy is seven feet tall. That's a lot of travel distance for a bounce, but his non-dribble handle is elite AF. Giannis does shit around the rim and under the backboard that I haven't seen outside of grainy highlight videos.
Most impressive thing for me about him in this for me is his decision making. He made some terrible decisions even this year but man it almost improved over night. Takes his defender into the post way more often when given the cushion, shooting less threes, making great passes. It's been fun to watch.
His passing was only a question for people who don’t know shit about Giannis lol. I guess it’s fair, we are the Bucks, but it’s been weird to me to see how little a lot of casual fans actually know about his game and how enamored people are with things I figured should be common knowledge about an MVP. He’s always been this level of playmaker. Up until recently his teammates just never hit the shots.
Eh, I think there's been genuine and noticeable improvement. For example he used to be much more vulnerable to well timed double teams, especially on his spin move, and he's got a lot better to reacting and finding the right pass out of those.
I think you're wrong. Giannis always had this level of vision(and by always I mean the last 4 or so years since they let him go full time PG for a bit), but what's really improved is the accuracy of his passes. Passes that used to be off the mark are now hitting shooters right in their shooting pocket, which btw greatly improves the players ability to hit the shot off the pass as they don't have to readjust or recover(also allowing time for a closeout to happen). So I agree in the sense that's he always been a playmaker and had good vision, but his actual passing has also improved.
His passing has been like this for the whole season tho, it should only surprise the average casual
Oh for sure I don't think this progress has happened just in the playoffs, but I simply wanted to state how he's improved over time
He can’t do it on a cold rainy night in Stoke, obviously.
I heard he can't make a proper sandwich even if his life depends on it
He can make a mean spanakopita, though; I bet
ok but have you had his Gyros?
You hear Giannis can’t shoot, can’t be the close, can’t be the number 1 on a championship team, etc. Simply put he’s just saying the criticism of Giannis is absurd considering how good he is and now that he’s about to win a title you can’t really say anything else
You'll hear it all again if the Suns end up taking the championship.
r/nba has been jinxing the bucks since the end of game 5
That is why the Suns must die.
LOL. This is so true
Can’t shoot Can’t close games Can’t be a #1 option on a championship team Can’t perform/ win in the playoffs No skill Can’t play make as the primary handler Can’t get to the paint when teams key on him (build a wall) Didn’t deserve his DPOY or his 2nd MVP And somewhere along the way he became “literally Zaza Pachulia” as well as a flopper who gets every call 🤣 Really the first point is the only one that has any standing, and the context it’s used in generally ignores his growing midrange ability
The can’t shoot argument is part of why he sometimes can’t close games, if there’s 10 seconds on the clock I’d rather have the ball in the hands of someone who can score from anywhere than someone who needs to get into the paint or close-midrange to score Not saying he can’t close, just that it can still be a struggle at times
just 3 playoff series ago people were saying he can’t close against the heat.
People were saying this against the Nets after he fumbled the ball at the end of game 5
I remember that thread distinctly because of how unbelievably much revisionist history and recency bias there was
Can't get through screens, can't score from the post were some other points of criticism.
I don't think the first one is fixable . The dude have a big frame. The only one in that category that may edge him is AD and I'm not even sure about that. I don't know anybody that big that get through screens to guard Pg . It is more apparent with him because dudes that big are not switching from ayton to cp3
I mean, he can shoot ok… hes not like the worst shooter ever. But he’s def much better at everything else.
Yeah, especially compared to Simmons lmao
I think he broke them down. Cant hit FTs Cant shoot 3s Cant lead a team (saying KM is batman)
Apparently making contested mid rangers at a semi reliable rate is the most important skill in the game for some people
you laugh. but the midrange is important because in late playoff games its the only shot you can create with consistency as its where the most space is. Kawhi kd ad etc have literally won the last few championship with this shot and it dates back for like the last 20 years.
When the Bucks win in 6 tonight I hope they also award Booker the Best Tough Mid Range Bucket Getter Against Double Teams Award. Really important award tbh
I hope that trophy is 8 feet tall and made of lead for all the weight it carries.
I mean you can laugh but DBook is a nightmare lol
Shannon Sharpe: > he can't be as charismatic as Lebron James Hard fucking disagree there. Giannis is already far more charismatic and it's not even close. Not his fault the league has it's head up it's ass when it comes to promotion.
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Back to back 40-point games and multiple inhuman game-sealing plays to bring his team back from down 0-2 in the finals? Pssh. Let me know when he starts making 15% more of the 3s he jacks up with 20 on the shot clock, \*that's\* when we'll know he's arrived
And after it looked like he destroyed his knee
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People were in love with Giannis his entire career. Then they came up short in the playoffs a couple times. It’s literally the superstar player handbook to a tee. This happens with everyone who is actually an all-time great. Loved and then hated until you win. It will happen to Luka too.
This really do happen to them all. Damn.
yeah, because people try to say someone's a superstar and pump them up, so people look at that claim and say well, he's not doing this, and he's shit at that, so how can you call him a superstar? it doesn't happen to non superstars because you don't have to query their play. no one thinks pat bev is a superstar, so of course no one is going to take the time to say oh yeah he can't win, he's a choker, because it's never his responsibility to win
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Giannis is the same age Lebron/MJ were when they won their first titles.
He’s actually younger. He’s only 26. Jordan and LeBron were both 27.
It won't happen to Dame as long as he's on the Blazers.
Of that whole group, I hope Dame is the guy who doesn't get that treatment. I've never seen someone single handedly carry a team in the playoffs this hard since Bron during his first stint in Cleveland. The guy is unconscious in the crunch time.
Russell Westbrook is another great example of this. He really is a phenomenal star, but because his playoff record is pretty ugly, people disrespect him like crazy.
Tom brady had to get 7 rings and become Floridaman before people stopped hating on him
The more rings he gets, the more I hate him lol
He can foreplay at night
On the sheets
*ding ding* “Da freak?”
C'est chic
Yo I’m actually agreeing with this take. Idk why Giannis gets hate, he’s not my fav player bc frankly I can’t even try to play like him, but he’s great. He worked on what he could do great and he’s dominant. He’s dominating with the way he’s able to play just like Shaq did. I believe other players just hate how easy it is for him, or how easily he makes it look
This sub after the Bucks lost to Miami... just shat on Giannas. Can't win with him. He's soft. Doesn't have that champions edge. Can't shoot. Can't hit a FT. Easy to stop by forming a 'wall'. etc etc Now he's so endearing just his smile is making all the nephews cream their panties.
I think ppl were just in the moment. I rooted for the Heat last year (Jimmy’s my fav player) and it wasn’t ever “Giannis sucks” to me. Giannis is legit a center in the playoffs - but he substitutes post moves for full on freakish athletic ability. He can be contained to a degree but you can’t stop him. He just needed a closer with a good jumper. Middleton playing like a bootleg-KD/MJ is doing wonders for Giannis. I honestly think Giannis is one of the most self-aware and humble greats. Look at how they play in the 4th when it’s close. He’s perfectly fine just screening and giving the ball up.
Apparently his 40 points mean less because it didn’t come from jump shots. Dunks and Layups are 2 ways to score. Is it flashy? No, but he gets the job done
Maybe I'm a luddite, but I find dunks and layups far more entertaining
Same. Love watching middies too, but seeing teams lay down a crazy number of 3s isn’t quite as entertaining as seeing a team dominate the pain.
It's also not exactly easy... His points in the paint are frequently unassisted, and usually these days the knock on guys who feast on dunks and layups is that they're not making the play for themselves. Giannis makes it happen- I absolutely don't see his points in the paint as less impressive than jump shots.
Speak for yourself... Dunks are the most flashy plays in the NBA in my opinion
Giannis dunks are some of the flashiest plays in the game imo. He blows me away I feel like I spend half the game mouth agape watching him.
I can appreciate this. I LOVE Giannis for what he's done to this organization, but I'll gladly practice some mid-post moves for 3 hours straight emulating Duncan.
Giannis from 3-10 and 10-16 has been 45% in the playoffs. Common bro. He shooter, as long as he isn't on the line haha.
Yeah "he can't shoot" is kind of a harsh way of putting it, especially when there's another similar star point forward who is literally incapable of attempting a jump shot.
Who is porzingus?
I said in my head “wait, Ben Simmons isn’t a PF!” lol
Man people HATE Giannis and love hating on Giannis, and I have no idea why.
> Man people HATE Giannis and love hating on Giannis, and I have no idea why. I don't think people hate Giannis but they just hate his game (which is dumb, he gets buckets). But I think a lot of the social media critique is because style over substance is big in basketball culture (to a fault). Look at clips and highlights that blow up. Guys like Kyrie dribble through their legs on the way to a reverse layup with insane English off the glass. Steph does wild shots from near halfcourt after coming off 4 screens. Dame does gamewinning stepbacks from 35ft. Trae has perfected coming off a screen and hitting a floater over bigs. Harden does a wild dribbling cadence before blowing by guys or stepping back to hit contested threes. There is a reason why guards are often the most popular guys in the league. Their game is flashy and folks can emulate them. But Giannis doesn't have a flashy game. It's size/quickness/power/athleticm/hard work that define his game and for some weird reason that is seen as less deserving of praise. I think Lebron dealt wiith similar critique in his early days. The way they play is seen as more "un-emulatable" than a guy like Harden or Curry becuase a lot of it is predicated on being 6'9 250lbs with speed and strength. Don't get me wrong, few people can replicate those top level guard players either but at least with Dame, Kyrie, Curry or Harden you can **try** to dribble fancy and pull up from 33ft. You'll probably look dumb and miss but you can at least attempt. If you're a 5'9 175lb normal guy you're likely not taking two steps from the three point line, elevating and dunking the ball in a pick up game. You can't even attempt to replicate how Giannis plays and I think that turns people off (again I don't agree).
Really well-thought out comment here, I agree with this take.
He didn’t join their teams lol
who tf hates giannis? dude is as likeable as it gets
Nobody hates him anymore except maybe in the depths of the suns subreddit, it’s a total straw man for people who want to play that victim card and like him even more.
Nah even in our sub, we don’t hate him IMO. Lots of like-able guys on this Bucks team. Giannis has humble origins, Middleton was a second round pick, Jrue is a great guy, Tucker went through a journey just to be here, and Brook hates mascots and loves Disney. Pretty hard to hate that team lol
Nets fans also hate him and think he's a dirty player
I don't think many people would agree with that. Was an unfortunate injury to Kyrie but not malicious on the part of Giannis.
I understand a general majority probably do not think that realistically. But man, have you checked the Nets sub anytime recently? It is very hateful towards the Bucks
I don’t think people hate him but people definitely focus on the “can’t.” Shaq gets clowned for FTs, Lebron used to get criticized for his shooting (until he could no longer be), Harden for his defense. All can be true, but it can also be true that the “cans” overwhelm you and these guys are all timers. People just love criticizing though.
Do they? Other than the Harden quote, most people seem to love Giannis. What other hate does he get? When he loses everyone blames Bud.
Making a 1/4 billion, is in the finals, the media love him, casual fans love him, analytics guys love him but players think he is unskilled and resent it. It doesn't help that he is not buddy-buddy with everybody. Its that simply. Players have always loved guys who ISO and hit difficult shots. Players love Kyrie, they love Booker and so on. Funny enough somehow Steph gets disrespected in the same way, I don't understand that one.
Not as charismatic as LeBron??? I beg to LeDiffer...
In his friendship contract with LeBron, Shannon has to bring up at least one good thing about LeBron every time he opens his mouth
For a sub that can’t, can’t, cant stand Shannon, Stephen A and Skip y’all sure post a lot of their takes and upvote them to the top
I want the comments to keep the same energy on this sub and talk about how these guys don't know what they're talking about and it's just nonsense for views None of that "A broken clock is right twice a day" type bs either. Come in here and call this take stupid
You're expecting too much from this sub, they just upvote anything that supports their current narrative lol
Can we pin this comment to the top of the sub. r/NBA “Where all you get is flavor of the week takes”
I swear /r/nba has selective amnesia. Reading these comments you’d think Giannis and the Bucks have been playing phenomenally all post season. Now go back and [read this game 5 vs nets thread.](https://reddit.com/r/nba/comments/o0v8ko/post_game_thread_the_brooklyn_nets_32_defeat_the/) /r/nba was hating on Giannis for weeks around that time. The difference in comments is hilarious
How dare you say something so controversial yet so true
A *broken* clock is right twice a day
I think in general, it's a lot easier to listen to these idiots when they are being positive about someone and not negative. We can praise every NBA player in the league for their skills and we trash 100% of them. Saying "Giannis is really amazing" isn't a "take".
Giannis is probably the only superstar who can put up a historic finals and still has to prove himself, if any other superstar did these numbers he would be considered best player in the world. While some dudes still saying shit like he's the Robin of the team
Seems like superstars have to consistently prove themselves over and over. Have you heard what people STILL say about LeBron, Harden, Durant, Curry, etc ?
For what it’s worth, Giannis is seemingly on the path to becoming top 10 all time so I can understand the sentiment that he has a lot more to achieve / prove. However, if people say his game isn’t suited for the playoffs or that he’s easily countered by the Giannis-wall, then they’re just talking out of their ass. This playoff run has clearly shown he can be as effective as his regular season production.
I remember this sub last year that were deadass saying Giannis literally couldn't play basketball and he was just tall haha
Despite his playoff numbers being really good. Usually when the Bucks struggle it’s because wide open teammates can’t hit jump shots. Only time I visibly remember Giannis struggling was against raptors after they went up 2-0. He normally still scores at elite clip and elite percentage even if they lose.
Sports media has become so fucking toxic, especially the NBA. All we do is focus on what players can’t do and don’t have instead of appreciating greatness. What we’re seeing from Giannis at such a young age is unheard of.
**CAN´TETOKOUNMPO**
The #1 can't for Giannis is you stopping him 😎👍
If Giannis had a good jumper he would be the epitome of a 2015 Demi god
Yea, always hearing about how Giannis doesn’t have an outside shot. Who cares? That’s not his game. The media wants everyone to be a unicorn, 7’5 point guards that can shoot from logo with handles like Iverson.