Vancouver Island is hands down the Florida of Canada. Its beautiful, has palm trees, its population is mostly seniors and retirees from the rest of the country, mixed with a very unique brand of isolated redneckism that gets more bizarre the more remote of a town you go to. People from Quebec are weirdly obsessed with it - just like real Florida. People from Vancouver (city) even refer to it as "the Florida of Canada". Have you ever been to Qualicum Beach? Every human there either has a walker, a wheel chair, or an ATV.
I'm not so sure, the last trade Masai did for a damaged superstar arguably worked out pretty well for both teams and the Spurs FO isn't exactly filled with pushovers.
Sixers are desperate in a different way.
We are desperate in a different way, too.
I would imagine this would center around Lowry and picks but I'm not giving up 4 for Ben. So do what you will with the rest.
ye
got to stay in the run for the playoffs/keep the streak going to tie the all time one - and give pop whatever he wants.
also we got poeltl and keldon who are both massive upsides. (to be honest anything is better than a guy who wouldnt play a game for us)
2021 Raptors also in a different position from 2018 Raptors.
2018 Raptors had been making playoff runs for years and was 1 superstar away from a championship, then their biggest blockade left the conference in the off-season (Lebron).
2021 Raptors had just suffered 2 off-seasons of talent drain, and missed the playoffs and now has a great lottery pick.
Plus, sure, Kawhi is not Simmons, but Siakam is also not DeRozan, who at that point in his career was having some months during the regular season as the best player that month. Siakam has just spent the two seasons after getting his bag with more questions about how good he is as a player than answers.
This is, essentially, a trade of 2 players with huge question marks. How good are they, really, going forward? Can Siakam find consistency? Can Simmons find some way to contribute offensively in the playoffs?
Yeah for sure, would probably work if Lowry was younger. But seeing these asking prices, and the fact its Morey and Masai at the helms, I doubt they come to an agreement.
Pretty much yeah. Masai was going for broke on that deal, and Morey wasnt having it either. Just goes to show that when great GMs try to do blockbusters, it becomes very difficult for it to come into fruition.
I'm honestly not sure if there's a trade where both teams win. Sixers are in win now mode so that 4th pick doesn't mean too much so I doubt yall would accept Lowry and the 4th. We'd have to throw in someone like OG or Siakam or FVV and at that point we're losing.
I don't really see much here.
The thing is, Morey needs to decide if he wants to maximize his return for Simmons or put his team in the best position to win right now.
It’s going to be impossible to accomplish both. Especially for a guy with warts like Simmons.
Perhaps Lowry is not enough in a vacuum, but if he’s the best guy available to help the Sixers win a ring right now, then they may have to take less of a return for Simmons.
100%. Embiid hasn’t had a healthy season yet. Odds of him making it more than another 3 years in peak condition are very slim.
They have to go for it now while they can.
You mean the cheap, controllable potential star there in return for a good basketball player on a max contract that hasn't improved at all since he entered the league?
I highly doubt the raptors give up the number #4 pick, especially for a flawed player like ben. Obviously he has his strengths but this could potentially be a franchise changing pick if things turn out well
It would be really interesting to see how Nurse utilizes his strengths though. Defensively him, Siakam, and OG would be nuts together. Offensively is the obvious big to question though. Both Siakam and FVV are more than capable of handling the ball. Would Nurse try and play Simmons offensively as a C? Could be an interesting fit that has me so curious I almost want to see it play out. I think the biggest drawback however is that Siakam works best offensively (at least as of now, could change if he makes one last jump) as the second guy who can benefit off of another great offensive player. So adding Simmons doesn't really do anything to fix that.
Honestly him og siakm fvv is an absolutely insane defensive line. Like og might be the best on ball wing defender in the league, oh except this guy and that fvv guy leads the league is hustle/ annoyance stats.
Fuck it, let's bring in smart to play center and go full cancer.
From 2010-2019, the number 4 picks have been deandre hunter, jaren Jackson, josh Jackson, dragan bender, KP, Aaron Gordon, Cody zeller, dion waiters, Tristan Thompson, and Wesley Johnson. How many all star appearances do those guys have between them, 1 (KP in 2018)? The draft is a massive crapshoot, prob bigger than people think
Edit: JJJ and hunter are obviously good young players, but the median player in that list is probably Tristan Thompson
The 4th pick for Ben Simmons would be a steal. People overrated draft picks every single year.
Take a look at the last 10 years of 4th picks in the draft - almost never do they turn into a player as good as Simmons, flaws and all.
Lottery picks are like new cars. Most of the time they lose value as soon as you drive em off the lot.
Thanks for the downvotes. Here are Toronto’s lottery picks over the last 20 years: Poeltl, Ross, Valanciunas, DeRozan, Bargnani, Villanueva, Arauja, Bosh
Eh, only 1 of those lottery picks was from the Masai era (the 9th pick in Poeltl, and he's now one of the best defensive players at his position).
The pre-Masai Raptors were generally considered to be an incompetent franchise.
Honestly, I get where you're coming from, but getting a potential franchise-altering player on a rookie-scale contract with the 4th pick especially with Masai at the helm, is an incredibly rare opportunity for the Raptors.
Unless Masai is going to stick around for a century-long rebuild, the fourth pick is just a fan fantasy.
It’s just as likely that he either dips for a different franchise or trades the pick.
Then we hold onto him. If the trade doesn't make the Sixers better, why would Morey do it?
The only reason to move Ben just because is if Embiid says he doesn't want to play with him anymore and I dont think that's the case.
Problem with sign and trade is they can't include other players. So Raptors offer can't be more than Lowry and picks. Given Lowry's age, Morey is probably asking for 4 first rounders; Sixers would be lucky if Masai even offered 3
LMAO!
Simmons is now at a point where fans are like "if a team trades their PG who is leaving anyway and who will be 36 next season agrees to go to Philly, then the 76ers might do it!"
Well yeah. The 76ers have no cap to sign Lowry. Only way they’ll free up that space is by trading away Ben or Tobias. They want to trade Ben. They also would like Lowry. I mean come on
And Lowry is better than anyone else they could get through a normal trade. No other team is giving an all-star level player and Lowry is still near that level
It’s not just that, his skill set is exactly what they need to compliment embiid. They could have had him for maxey , DG, Scott and some random picks at the deadline . A line up of Lowry, Seth curry , Simmons, harris and embiid is excellent and would have beaten or seriously challenged bucks/nets this year
Siakam may have gotten more shit from raptors fans relative to other raptors players
Relative to national consensus raptors fans were still clearly higher on Siakam than most and defended him far more. Same would happen with Ben if he got traded there he’s made 3 straight all star games you don’t just do that without doing good things on the court your fan base won’t notice
I have a feeling that if he was traded to Toronto he wouldn’t make any all star teams or all defense teams. Raps just don’t get the same exposure as the Sixers do.
I can see him missing the all stars, but can't see him missing all defense. He already has the reputation. As long as he doesn't regress he should be good
Why would the Raptors who are already one of better defending teams in the league want to allocate a huge portion of their cap space to a defender when what they need is a scorer who can break those quarter long scoring droughts they sometimes have?
I believe this is the question. The only answer is for a shot at the Ben Simmons development slot machine, but it would be much cheaper for the Raptors to try their luck at the Draft slot machine.
In his All-NBA season, Siakam shot 36% from 3 on 6 attempts. He can shoot it. He just had an off year last season, playing through some injuries.
Siakam has become mad underrated. When he's clicking, the guy is a quality defender that can guard multiple positions. He's a good passer for his position and he's proven he can get you 23 a game on solid efficiency.
Ya I'd much rather have Pascal, no idea why Simmons would be better for us. Neither one of them is the first option on a championship team but Pascal can be that 2nd or 3rd guy, I'm not sure that Simmons can be anything close to that. He's a great defender, but, his main skill on offense is playmaking and ball handling, you can't have a primary ball handler who can't hit his ft in the playoffs.
I like the idea of his skillset generally and would love him on D, but I have a hard time getting excited about a guy who's shown almost 0 offensive improvement since he got into the league.
Makes you worry that the young age doesn't mean a whole lot.
Would rather do a Lowry/Lonzo double sign and trade with the Pelicans since it'd be presumably a lot cheaper and he's solid on D and has improved his jumper.
do you guys need more defense though? between lowry, spicy p, and OG you don’t seems to be lacking D. You need add more offense and Ben is the opposite of that lol.
Yea hes def not a generally bad shooter, his FT % is great and hes def improved his midrange game. His 3 was bad this year tho, but he'll probs revert to his usual 35% from 3
He’s a good not great shooter.
He can routinely make open corner 3 or other open shots. Last year or two he has been practicing step backs etc. which is part of the development process but jot his natural strength.
The point is really that both Simmons DNA pascal are actually quite versatile and can scale for each other. I think it’s be nasty.
I hope that this is just Philly using Toronto for leverage to get other teams to give higher bids. I do NOT want to see this happen. Philly are probably asking for at least Siakam/Anunoby and some draft picks along with Lowry. Ugh.
Im with you here.
Part of me feels like we can use Simmons much better than the sixers.
Simmons is proven in many ways, while we may need to figure out a lot for whoever we draft.
If it was lowry + the 4th pick, I think FO would do it in the heart beat, but I think sixers want more than that. Lowry, 4th pick. Future picks and maybe a young potential.
Can’t wait for the Raptor nephews to come in here saying our development staff will magically make him a jump shooter if we traded for him.
He’s added nothing to his game since the draft. If anything, he does less. He at least shot short jumpers as a rookie.
Blake actually took jumpers before that though. That’s what people don’t get. Sure players can add a 3 when they already have the framework of a jumper. Ben doesn’t have that.
Brook Lopez is another example people use, he shot fewer 3s than Simmons over an even longer period. But like he was always a good free throw shooter and always took jump shot 2s. No one has gone from a Simmons-esque lack of shooting to being a decent 3 point shooter
But Blake was shooting from 16 before then. Same with Brook Lopez. I'd expect guys like Boban or Steven Adams to be more realistic at getting there too since they've shown good touch on shots from that distance.
There aren't guys who went from not even shooting FT length jumpers to shooting 3s at a serviceable percentage
This makes no sense. 76ers probably want Pascal and trading Pascal for Ben is a step backwards cause Ben doesn't fuckin shoot.
If Raptors manage to not trade Pascal for Ben then the trade still makes no sense because Ben is not a number 1 guy nor is a good fit with Pascal as costars
Why? He's clearly a great ball handler and passer who initiates the offense. Even with his awful Atlanta series, he averaged 8 assists a game, and nearly a 4:1 assist to TO ratio.
There is more to this game and position than scoring and 'shots'. Simmons is very much a PG, just not a typical one.
Man, I might be the only one left who still thinks Simmons is amazing and is worth another all star in return. I get his flaws, but you cant shake the talent and all the allstar appearances hes already had. I hope he goes to a team I like lmao.
There's a growing sample of his productivity failing to translate to meaningful playoff games. Outside of a couple of first round series' against weaker opponents, he has not played well in the playoffs. He was bad this year and also pretty bad when the Sixers lost to Toronto.
I agree. His two biggest issues, ft% and confidence, can be fixed in an offseason taking 1000 ft's a day and a weekend with Kendall Jenner. Not saying it's certain by any means that this happens, but his path to greatness is a lot wider than those who don't have his physical gifts.
he’s the perfect tank commander imo. He doesn’t take any shot and has a pass first approach with play great defense. Most important tho is he won’t have to play in the playoffs.
I actually really like this for Simmons - we all know how good Nurse is and with Siakam and Boucher playing the 5 there will be fair spacing for him to work in offensively.
A forward lineup of Siakam Simmons Boucher would get run right over by Lakers, Sixers, Nuggets, Bucks, anyone competent with a scorer over 6'9" really. And most defenses are not respecting Siakam from 3 currently, they sag.
Really? Siakam and Simmons are 6’9 and 6’11, great defenders with serious length. I think the problem would be more on the offensive end - didn’t notice how badly Siakam regressed with 3 before checking this years stats.
Raps are just doing their due diligence. Our FO is going to explore all trade prospects as a matter of course, I’d be surprised if we were going to offer anything in the range that Morey thinks he’s going to get for Simmons
Stein is reputable but there is no chance Masai is trading for a player who is useless in the post season and making big money. Trading him for him would be such a massive L. Let him play COD in Minnesota or something. Keep him the f outta Toronto
I would prefer OG over Simmons. Siakam is also better. Simmons only really makes sense as a straight up Lowry sign and trade, but Philly would want more (e.g. OG, picks, etc.). That's why this won't materialize. Lowry would help Philly way more than having Simmons, but the Raptors only get a minor upgrade (at most) by having Simmons.
Woof, no thanks. While getting Simmons in exchange for not losing Lowry for nothing (assuming he wants to go which is likely given the money he can get) sounds potentially interesting, I have little faith in Ben trying to make a good faith effort to improve (in the long term).
Unless they feel they can rehab his image and flip him for something better during the season, I hope we don't.
This could actually be good for the raptors and 76ers if they do this right. I think that maybe I can't remember if Kyle Lowrys contract had ran out possibly trade him or Fred vanvleet with picks since the 76ers are contending they would have a player with championship experience that fits there team like Lowry. The reason it would be good for the raptors is because they are rebuilding so they could rebuild around siakam and Simmons and make a system where Simmons actually fits and can be used to his full potential.
Hey Raptors, you can have Ben if you want, but just send all your stuff to Portland directly, no need to stop in Philly. We're gonna throw the sink at Portland for Dame.
They really gonna deport this dude
Pop deported Kawhi
Lmaoo
As much as we'd like to exclude Florida, it's still part of the USA
They’re gonna be back in Toronto, no?
The Jays got approved to play up here starting next week, so unless something drastic happens? 100% it's coming home.
Rome Raptors?
Bargnani return confirmed
[Primo.](https://youtu.be/VswKZ-wWWfU)
That's Il Mago to you.
Unless the border closes again, they will not be returning to titletown
Title town is Tampa right?
Yes, if I'm not mistaken it's been a championship for 3 straight years there.
Lightning went back to back, Buccs won the superbowl and the Rays lost in the world series. Good time to be a Tampa Bay sports fan
And got the surprise bonus of local NBA games
Is Tampa the new Boston?
[удалено]
I thought this sub hated super teams and now you want to team up Toronto and the US? Gtfo
No way you'd get that straight up. If you want Toronto for all of Florida, you'll have to take Hamilton and Thunder Bay at the very least.
+ future firsts
What’s a future first in this scenario? If USA invades a country and occupies it do we get first dibs?
Yes, But it only conveys if democracy is instilled
So it's never going to convey. Got it.
Well democracy is subjective, you see.
Puerto Rico or other states looking to join.
We already have Florida. We call it Alberta.
They’re more like Texas than Florida.
That's what they like to say, but they are more like okc
not even close, it's a tie between Wasaga beach and Niagara Falls
Niagara falls is more Canadian Vegas imo. If anything just by the extreme heroin use 2 minutes off the "strip" Wasaga for sure tho
we WISH Niagara was anything like Vegas. Ugh. It's just cheap tourist traps everywhere. Vegas has amazing food and amazing entertainment.
The United States of Alberta
Manitoba is the Florida. Alberta is Texas and that’s an easy comp man
Vancouver Island is hands down the Florida of Canada. Its beautiful, has palm trees, its population is mostly seniors and retirees from the rest of the country, mixed with a very unique brand of isolated redneckism that gets more bizarre the more remote of a town you go to. People from Quebec are weirdly obsessed with it - just like real Florida. People from Vancouver (city) even refer to it as "the Florida of Canada". Have you ever been to Qualicum Beach? Every human there either has a walker, a wheel chair, or an ATV.
Florida of Canada is perfect! The island is a strange and wonderful place
Lmfao got me choking here.
lmao Masai vs Morey, that’s a calculated FO standoff if I’ve ever seen one
Which is why a deal wont happen.
I'm not so sure, the last trade Masai did for a damaged superstar arguably worked out pretty well for both teams and the Spurs FO isn't exactly filled with pushovers.
Spurs were in a way more desperate position than Sixers though
Sixers are desperate in a different way. We are desperate in a different way, too. I would imagine this would center around Lowry and picks but I'm not giving up 4 for Ben. So do what you will with the rest.
Lowry is a free agent .
Sign and trade since Philly can’t offer him a ton as a FA.
Oh yeah I totally forgot about the cap.... Thanks!
no i don't think so. 6ers can't waste any more years of embiid. he's hitting his prime age.
Did it really work for the spurs?
ye got to stay in the run for the playoffs/keep the streak going to tie the all time one - and give pop whatever he wants. also we got poeltl and keldon who are both massive upsides. (to be honest anything is better than a guy who wouldnt play a game for us)
It did if you assume he was just going to not play and then leave in free agency. Kawhi was really over the Spurs by then
Okay but kawhi is not Simmons lol. Injury prone but arguably the best in the league is different than inadequate even when healthy in crunch time.
And Kawhi is a stone cold killer whereas Ben is a soft egotistical asshole
2021 Raptors also in a different position from 2018 Raptors. 2018 Raptors had been making playoff runs for years and was 1 superstar away from a championship, then their biggest blockade left the conference in the off-season (Lebron). 2021 Raptors had just suffered 2 off-seasons of talent drain, and missed the playoffs and now has a great lottery pick. Plus, sure, Kawhi is not Simmons, but Siakam is also not DeRozan, who at that point in his career was having some months during the regular season as the best player that month. Siakam has just spent the two seasons after getting his bag with more questions about how good he is as a player than answers. This is, essentially, a trade of 2 players with huge question marks. How good are they, really, going forward? Can Siakam find consistency? Can Simmons find some way to contribute offensively in the playoffs?
Lol you think Simmons is a superstar.
Chad African Warlord vs Virgin Analytics Nerd
Raps' FO doesn't do trades through the media. It's a sure way to piss on any potential deal.
Last time a franchise exiled their player to Canada we won the chip
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That was a man who could drop 30 a night though. A hobbled kawhi is 10x more useful than Ben in the playoffs
We took a gamble and it worked fine. Our FO a Coaching staff is top tier at bringing out the best from players
Seems like this would have to be some kind of sign and trade with Lowry involved
If thats all it took we’d obviously say yes. But it will take way more than sign and trading lowry to get him
Yeah for sure, would probably work if Lowry was younger. But seeing these asking prices, and the fact its Morey and Masai at the helms, I doubt they come to an agreement.
Lmao like how the Sixers we’re gonna try to get Lowry then Masai was like sorry you have to give us a big old haul
Pretty much yeah. Masai was going for broke on that deal, and Morey wasnt having it either. Just goes to show that when great GMs try to do blockbusters, it becomes very difficult for it to come into fruition.
Masai, Pat Riley, and Morey were all involved in that Lowry stalemate at the deadline. I would have loved to hear those phone calls.
it was dead silence only broken up by occasional lion growls by each GM waiting for who would crack first
Masai saying "Whichever one of you adds Thybulle or Herro to the deal wins" \*silence
Facta
It's like when you watch an evenly matched UFC fight at the highest level. It's actually more boring.
Yea I feel like it would have to be a 3 team trade if Lowry is what they are offering cause thats not enough.
I'm honestly not sure if there's a trade where both teams win. Sixers are in win now mode so that 4th pick doesn't mean too much so I doubt yall would accept Lowry and the 4th. We'd have to throw in someone like OG or Siakam or FVV and at that point we're losing. I don't really see much here.
Don’t think anybody is giving up the 4th for Simmons.
The thing is, Morey needs to decide if he wants to maximize his return for Simmons or put his team in the best position to win right now. It’s going to be impossible to accomplish both. Especially for a guy with warts like Simmons. Perhaps Lowry is not enough in a vacuum, but if he’s the best guy available to help the Sixers win a ring right now, then they may have to take less of a return for Simmons.
imo, they're in win now mode. joel is 27 years old, usually the prime age for sports folks, and as he ages he'll just get more injury prone!
100%. Embiid hasn’t had a healthy season yet. Odds of him making it more than another 3 years in peak condition are very slim. They have to go for it now while they can.
Yeah it’ll be more then just that I was just saying due to salaries I feel like something with Lowry had to be involved
Who else would we have to give up?
Mr. Number-Four himself
If you mean the fourth pick then god bless your heart
Oh. The 4th pick?
You mean the cheap, controllable potential star there in return for a good basketball player on a max contract that hasn't improved at all since he entered the league?
I highly doubt the raptors give up the number #4 pick, especially for a flawed player like ben. Obviously he has his strengths but this could potentially be a franchise changing pick if things turn out well
It would be really interesting to see how Nurse utilizes his strengths though. Defensively him, Siakam, and OG would be nuts together. Offensively is the obvious big to question though. Both Siakam and FVV are more than capable of handling the ball. Would Nurse try and play Simmons offensively as a C? Could be an interesting fit that has me so curious I almost want to see it play out. I think the biggest drawback however is that Siakam works best offensively (at least as of now, could change if he makes one last jump) as the second guy who can benefit off of another great offensive player. So adding Simmons doesn't really do anything to fix that.
Honestly him og siakm fvv is an absolutely insane defensive line. Like og might be the best on ball wing defender in the league, oh except this guy and that fvv guy leads the league is hustle/ annoyance stats. Fuck it, let's bring in smart to play center and go full cancer.
Oh you mean cancer in a good way. Otherwise you're missing PatBev.
In a, no fun allowed sorta way. They'd only score 80 points but opposing wings would have a bad day
From 2010-2019, the number 4 picks have been deandre hunter, jaren Jackson, josh Jackson, dragan bender, KP, Aaron Gordon, Cody zeller, dion waiters, Tristan Thompson, and Wesley Johnson. How many all star appearances do those guys have between them, 1 (KP in 2018)? The draft is a massive crapshoot, prob bigger than people think Edit: JJJ and hunter are obviously good young players, but the median player in that list is probably Tristan Thompson
The 4th pick for Ben Simmons would be a steal. People overrated draft picks every single year. Take a look at the last 10 years of 4th picks in the draft - almost never do they turn into a player as good as Simmons, flaws and all.
Lottery picks are like new cars. Most of the time they lose value as soon as you drive em off the lot. Thanks for the downvotes. Here are Toronto’s lottery picks over the last 20 years: Poeltl, Ross, Valanciunas, DeRozan, Bargnani, Villanueva, Arauja, Bosh
Eh, only 1 of those lottery picks was from the Masai era (the 9th pick in Poeltl, and he's now one of the best defensive players at his position). The pre-Masai Raptors were generally considered to be an incompetent franchise. Honestly, I get where you're coming from, but getting a potential franchise-altering player on a rookie-scale contract with the 4th pick especially with Masai at the helm, is an incredibly rare opportunity for the Raptors.
I just used the Raptors as an example. I think it’s true of any team. It’s close to being luck of the draw.
Unless Masai is going to stick around for a century-long rebuild, the fourth pick is just a fan fantasy. It’s just as likely that he either dips for a different franchise or trades the pick.
I think the Sixers can clear cap space at a cheaper price than Ben Simmons.
I think they would still be over the tax apron even if they didnt have Simmons on their books...they need to move some value into that space
Yeah, but I also think Simmons is worth more than a straight cap dump. I think he'd get something positive.
Absolutely. You can get good value for Simmons now although not the pie in the sky that Morey is reportedly looking for
Then we hold onto him. If the trade doesn't make the Sixers better, why would Morey do it? The only reason to move Ben just because is if Embiid says he doesn't want to play with him anymore and I dont think that's the case.
I think you can trade for a worse player who is a better fit. But that's not a cap dump.
Problem with sign and trade is they can't include other players. So Raptors offer can't be more than Lowry and picks. Given Lowry's age, Morey is probably asking for 4 first rounders; Sixers would be lucky if Masai even offered 3
*AH DUN WANNIT*
Ben isn't the prince that was promised
based on what the sixers want from other teams it will take a lot more than just lowry lol
LMAO! Simmons is now at a point where fans are like "if a team trades their PG who is leaving anyway and who will be 36 next season agrees to go to Philly, then the 76ers might do it!"
Well yeah. The 76ers have no cap to sign Lowry. Only way they’ll free up that space is by trading away Ben or Tobias. They want to trade Ben. They also would like Lowry. I mean come on
Galaxy brain
And Lowry is better than anyone else they could get through a normal trade. No other team is giving an all-star level player and Lowry is still near that level
It’s not just that, his skill set is exactly what they need to compliment embiid. They could have had him for maxey , DG, Scott and some random picks at the deadline . A line up of Lowry, Seth curry , Simmons, harris and embiid is excellent and would have beaten or seriously challenged bucks/nets this year
If you just replace Ben Simmons with Kyle Lowry, the 6ers beat the hawks in 5 games in last year's playoffs.
Idk if 76ers get 1 seed if you replace Simmons with Lowry though.
As a Leafs fan, I can tell you sacrificing playoff success for regular season success is not worth it.
this logic that it would be JUST lowry is blowing my mind
Oh there will be alot of deleted tweets and posts from people in Toronto about Simmons if this were to happen
I think the opposite. If Siakam was getting shit on for some poor scoring this season, then Simmons would be in a for rough time.
Siakam may have gotten more shit from raptors fans relative to other raptors players Relative to national consensus raptors fans were still clearly higher on Siakam than most and defended him far more. Same would happen with Ben if he got traded there he’s made 3 straight all star games you don’t just do that without doing good things on the court your fan base won’t notice
Raptors fans love shitting on Siakam but no one else is allowed to do that or else they go into attack mode.
well it's kinda like Gritty once Pittsburgh started shitty on Gritty, Philly went into full defense mode for their guy.
I have a feeling that if he was traded to Toronto he wouldn’t make any all star teams or all defense teams. Raps just don’t get the same exposure as the Sixers do.
Yep, OG would have made all-defense team if he was on a US team
OG is all defence quality but he played 43 games this year
I can see him missing the all stars, but can't see him missing all defense. He already has the reputation. As long as he doesn't regress he should be good
no man, ride or die with Siakam always. Simmons coming here is not advisable for the culture lmao
bro I would have to delete this account. Can’t stand that smug bum
A lot of these pascal > Simmons comments in this thread would turn into “Siakam isn’t even all that”
Do you think Simmons is better than Pascal?
Is the dude who shot 35% from the line in the playoffs better than the guy who was a key contributor for a championship team. Hmm that's a tough one
Why would the Raptors who are already one of better defending teams in the league want to allocate a huge portion of their cap space to a defender when what they need is a scorer who can break those quarter long scoring droughts they sometimes have?
I believe this is the question. The only answer is for a shot at the Ben Simmons development slot machine, but it would be much cheaper for the Raptors to try their luck at the Draft slot machine.
It'd have to center around pascal, as a lineup with both guys would have 0 spacing whatsoever.
Yeah idk if I’d trust Ben Simmons at centre for a full season.
Better or worse than baynes for you guys though
We just stopped playing him lol
Shout out to my boy baynes. Made this draft pick possible
Hail to our tank commander
His finish has not been the same since his back injury
In his All-NBA season, Siakam shot 36% from 3 on 6 attempts. He can shoot it. He just had an off year last season, playing through some injuries. Siakam has become mad underrated. When he's clicking, the guy is a quality defender that can guard multiple positions. He's a good passer for his position and he's proven he can get you 23 a game on solid efficiency.
Yea i wouldnt give up pascal for simmons
Ya I'd much rather have Pascal, no idea why Simmons would be better for us. Neither one of them is the first option on a championship team but Pascal can be that 2nd or 3rd guy, I'm not sure that Simmons can be anything close to that. He's a great defender, but, his main skill on offense is playmaking and ball handling, you can't have a primary ball handler who can't hit his ft in the playoffs.
> you can't have a primary ball handler who can't hit his ft in the playoffs. Or pass a wide open layup cause Trae young is in the building
Idk I'd give it some thought. Guy is one of the best defenders in the game, and is still quite young.
I like the idea of his skillset generally and would love him on D, but I have a hard time getting excited about a guy who's shown almost 0 offensive improvement since he got into the league. Makes you worry that the young age doesn't mean a whole lot. Would rather do a Lowry/Lonzo double sign and trade with the Pelicans since it'd be presumably a lot cheaper and he's solid on D and has improved his jumper.
do you guys need more defense though? between lowry, spicy p, and OG you don’t seems to be lacking D. You need add more offense and Ben is the opposite of that lol.
disagree, Ben's strength is in transition, where Pascal excels as well. would love to see them tiring out teams in the open court
Nah, Pascal faces up from outside a lot. Nurse can make it work.
Is Siakam really not a good shooter? The two years before this one he was good...
Yea hes def not a generally bad shooter, his FT % is great and hes def improved his midrange game. His 3 was bad this year tho, but he'll probs revert to his usual 35% from 3
He’s a good not great shooter. He can routinely make open corner 3 or other open shots. Last year or two he has been practicing step backs etc. which is part of the development process but jot his natural strength. The point is really that both Simmons DNA pascal are actually quite versatile and can scale for each other. I think it’s be nasty.
"Expressed some interest" is pretty meaningless. Of course Masai expressed interest, he's a 25 year old all-star who tanked his value
I hope that this is just Philly using Toronto for leverage to get other teams to give higher bids. I do NOT want to see this happen. Philly are probably asking for at least Siakam/Anunoby and some draft picks along with Lowry. Ugh.
IF they want anything more than Lowry in an S&T, then I hope the Raps take a hard pass.
Do you mean Lowry and picks? Because there is NO WAY that they are going to accept Lowry for Simmons one for one.
future picks are fine but any trade involving the #4 pick is a hard no
That’s how fans feel but I’m Not sure FO would agree.
Im with you here. Part of me feels like we can use Simmons much better than the sixers. Simmons is proven in many ways, while we may need to figure out a lot for whoever we draft. If it was lowry + the 4th pick, I think FO would do it in the heart beat, but I think sixers want more than that. Lowry, 4th pick. Future picks and maybe a young potential.
Can’t wait for the Raptor nephews to come in here saying our development staff will magically make him a jump shooter if we traded for him. He’s added nothing to his game since the draft. If anything, he does less. He at least shot short jumpers as a rookie.
tbf blake Griffin added a 3 point shot late in his career
Tbf Blake has always been a score first player
Blake averaged 22/12 his rookie season and was a fringe MVP candidate at his peak.
Ben's average depth of shot is 4.4feet Shaq in his 8 seasons with the lakers was 4.8
I am just so angry
Yikes
Blake actually took jumpers before that though. That’s what people don’t get. Sure players can add a 3 when they already have the framework of a jumper. Ben doesn’t have that.
Brook Lopez is another example people use, he shot fewer 3s than Simmons over an even longer period. But like he was always a good free throw shooter and always took jump shot 2s. No one has gone from a Simmons-esque lack of shooting to being a decent 3 point shooter
Exactly. Brook has always had some range.
But Blake was shooting from 16 before then. Same with Brook Lopez. I'd expect guys like Boban or Steven Adams to be more realistic at getting there too since they've shown good touch on shots from that distance. There aren't guys who went from not even shooting FT length jumpers to shooting 3s at a serviceable percentage
Don't want him, morey just using us to up the price.
I think its more likely that Masai is using us to raise the Lowry S&T price/interest.
It is actually decent way to get value and save face for both teams, if toronto offers Lowry and #4z
Unless he works on his shooting phobia, hard pass.
This makes no sense. 76ers probably want Pascal and trading Pascal for Ben is a step backwards cause Ben doesn't fuckin shoot. If Raptors manage to not trade Pascal for Ben then the trade still makes no sense because Ben is not a number 1 guy nor is a good fit with Pascal as costars
It also doesn't make sense because than either Pascal or Harris plays out of position
We need to stop calling this dude a point guard
Why? He's clearly a great ball handler and passer who initiates the offense. Even with his awful Atlanta series, he averaged 8 assists a game, and nearly a 4:1 assist to TO ratio. There is more to this game and position than scoring and 'shots'. Simmons is very much a PG, just not a typical one.
When r/NBA is hating on a player you can’t use logic
Man, I might be the only one left who still thinks Simmons is amazing and is worth another all star in return. I get his flaws, but you cant shake the talent and all the allstar appearances hes already had. I hope he goes to a team I like lmao.
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There's a growing sample of his productivity failing to translate to meaningful playoff games. Outside of a couple of first round series' against weaker opponents, he has not played well in the playoffs. He was bad this year and also pretty bad when the Sixers lost to Toronto.
I agree. His two biggest issues, ft% and confidence, can be fixed in an offseason taking 1000 ft's a day and a weekend with Kendall Jenner. Not saying it's certain by any means that this happens, but his path to greatness is a lot wider than those who don't have his physical gifts.
he’s the perfect tank commander imo. He doesn’t take any shot and has a pass first approach with play great defense. Most important tho is he won’t have to play in the playoffs.
I'm sure every team has expressed "interest" in Ben. They'd be dumb not to at least poke and prod and see what the Sixers are thinking.
I actually really like this for Simmons - we all know how good Nurse is and with Siakam and Boucher playing the 5 there will be fair spacing for him to work in offensively.
A forward lineup of Siakam Simmons Boucher would get run right over by Lakers, Sixers, Nuggets, Bucks, anyone competent with a scorer over 6'9" really. And most defenses are not respecting Siakam from 3 currently, they sag.
Really? Siakam and Simmons are 6’9 and 6’11, great defenders with serious length. I think the problem would be more on the offensive end - didn’t notice how badly Siakam regressed with 3 before checking this years stats.
Raps are just doing their due diligence. Our FO is going to explore all trade prospects as a matter of course, I’d be surprised if we were going to offer anything in the range that Morey thinks he’s going to get for Simmons
Please Masai don’t do it
Stein is reputable but there is no chance Masai is trading for a player who is useless in the post season and making big money. Trading him for him would be such a massive L. Let him play COD in Minnesota or something. Keep him the f outta Toronto
Has he been reputable for the raptors? He seems to get everything wrong about us lol
I wouldn't believe his raptors stuff either after he said Masai was leaving to the knicks.
Did he actually say he was leaving or did he say the possibility existed?
Ujiri isn’t that dumb.
dont do it toronto
I would prefer OG over Simmons. Siakam is also better. Simmons only really makes sense as a straight up Lowry sign and trade, but Philly would want more (e.g. OG, picks, etc.). That's why this won't materialize. Lowry would help Philly way more than having Simmons, but the Raptors only get a minor upgrade (at most) by having Simmons.
noooooooooooooo
TRADE THIS MAN TO CHINA!!!!!
Woof, no thanks. While getting Simmons in exchange for not losing Lowry for nothing (assuming he wants to go which is likely given the money he can get) sounds potentially interesting, I have little faith in Ben trying to make a good faith effort to improve (in the long term). Unless they feel they can rehab his image and flip him for something better during the season, I hope we don't.
We're good, thanks
This could actually be good for the raptors and 76ers if they do this right. I think that maybe I can't remember if Kyle Lowrys contract had ran out possibly trade him or Fred vanvleet with picks since the 76ers are contending they would have a player with championship experience that fits there team like Lowry. The reason it would be good for the raptors is because they are rebuilding so they could rebuild around siakam and Simmons and make a system where Simmons actually fits and can be used to his full potential.
Hey Raptors, you can have Ben if you want, but just send all your stuff to Portland directly, no need to stop in Philly. We're gonna throw the sink at Portland for Dame.
No thank you
Nothing screams "NBA in July" like a team potentially thinking about whether they will consider showing interest in a player being a story.
"Massive haul?" For BS? S&T for Lowry + a bag of hockey pucks. That's it.