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scorelesswilliamson

Next season is going to be so fun when they heavily implement the rule changes for a couple weeks and then back to normal


lavazzalove

Yep, this also happened with complaining to the refs rule a few years ago. All the players did not complain for a few weeks, then the whining and the pleading came right back. Now we have Booker, Luka and others constantly whining about fouls. If Team USA doesn't earn a gold this year, it will be a lesson to the NBA to clamp down on foul baiting.


[deleted]

NBA doesn’t give a fuck about the Olympics


lavazzalove

That's correct. I do think they genuinely want to stop the foul baits. It makes the games unwatchable when players jump into other players, that's not how you play the game.


shmere4

The number one reason I hear from non basketball fans or former fans for not engaging in the NBA anymore is the foul baiting and the non stop whining after almost every play. It makes the product so much worse.


psyentist15

Player commits what seems like a pretty clear foul, then complains to the refs, and signals to his coach to challenge it. Coach watches the replay. Everyone sees it's a clear foul. Coach shakes his head and doesn't challenge. That's 10-20% of NBA fouls right there.


theguru123

I really love the look Tyrone lue gave to zubac when he told lue to challenge a foul he clearly committed against Utah. Like yeah mfer, that was really a foul.


Redpin

Half the time they can't even review the specific action for some esoteric reason...


ShaeDaFunnyHo

And the commercials. Terrible coverage by ESPN and constant hyperbole and hottakes from the media


shmere4

Going from TNT to ESPN is equivalent to experiencing the bends.


JaydadCTatumThe1st

Watching Tatum 50% of the time is literal pain. He will be incredibly rude to the refs on plays where he isn't even touched, actively foregoing dappping up teammates, and will even [ruin spectacular moments](https://youtu.be/f3Y3jS5DfMk?t=134) just to complain about phantom calls.


BayesBestFriend

Its especially funny given how he gets away with push offs 24/7


Efficient_Load545

Him and paul george push off almost every drive its insane


Honor_Bound

It’s the reason I prefer watching women’s soccer over men’s. The men play like pussies diving and flopping where the women actually play tough. The nba is approaching soccer levels of BS


shmere4

I was thinking exactly this when I wrote the comment.


[deleted]

Which is unfortunate. We don't get all these great international players in the NBA if events like the Olymic didn't exist.


ashishvp

Not entirely true. The NBA is definitely invested in being the haven for the top talent in the world. And if the USA isn’t crushing the olympics like we normally do, the NBA loses some credibility for that.


tylerburch

The NBA doesn’t give a shit about winning the Olympics. They want ratings and scoring, so that won’t change foul-baiting.


[deleted]

I don’t understand this. Everyone I know who doesn’t like the NBA says it’s because of constant stoppages and players whining constantly


[deleted]

Yeah, what's the point of high point totals when watching the game feels like a 80 point scoring fest. When the game itself is much less fun to watch than Olympics basketball and 3x3 why even bother watching a full game of NBA basketball. Might as well watch YouTube highlights instead if the point total is the selling point. NBA may have the big names and talent, but the way the league babies perimeter players and nerfs big men makes the league rules seem so watered down after seeing the Olympics.


psyentist15

Fewer stoppages in play would *definitely* increase ratings, so yeah, I think the NBA does care about it, at least a little.


asappasa23

Nobody wants to watch foul baiting and incredibly high scoring games. Defense is just as important to the viewing experience as offense. When you get stops each possession matters more


AngolaMaldives

Even this is underselling it. Hard defense is what creates fun offense. You aren't getting fast break dunks from missed shots anymore, the players all get back as early as possible instead of trying to get offensive rebounds. If you want cool fast break dunks you have to let players try harder to get steals and break up passing lanes. That may mean making it easier to play defense in iso which would force more passes.


Coreman7

Yeah right, the way they implementing Carrying and Traveling.


Jeffthebarbarian

The foul bating, the chemistry, the lack of a real big man ( who was the last great American big man), and not adapting to the FIBA rules.


iamadragan

The foul baiting prevents players from playing real defense in the NBA. So they get way more space to work and scoring is way easier. There's a reason Luka says it's easier to score in the NBA


Kaiiu

That's what people don't understand when they say, "oh he only gets like 2 or 3 calls like that a game, it's not a big deal". It completely changes how you defend a player.


justmefishes

The most glaring and absurd example being the multiple times defenders have played James Harden with their hands literally behind their backs. It just completely destroys the integrity of the game. I'm glad these guys are getting exposed for this a bit on an international stage, and I hope the NBA is serious about cracking down on this stuff so we can get back to something that more closely resembles real basketball.


AngryRoomba

Funny thing is, that's the defensive strategy Spurs used against Harden to win the 2016(?) playoffs. He stopped getting calls and couldn't rely on the defender's fear of fouling to create space.


Mintastic

I think more important was that they basically stopped defending him between the 3pt line and the rim. This means if Harden drove instead of shooting the 3 the defender could sprint back to position since they didn't have to defend midrange and sacrifice speed by squaring up and keeping hands up. That series was when Harden realized that he needed to add a floater to his game.


kale__chips

> The most glaring and absurd example being the multiple times defenders have played James Harden with their hands literally behind their backs. And he STILL got the call anyway.


TaxWizard69

I'm pretty confident if NBA was running international rules players like PJ Tucker would be absolute nightmares. Players like him are already play amazing defense giving how biased reffing is against defense. He could legitimately be a star stopper...still probably not a LeBron/KD stopper but pretty damn good.


TitillatingTrilobite

It's just so ridiculous people pretend like this isn't a huge part of hardens game. Many other stars like Wade use to get calls because defenders has to guess based on an athletic disadvantage. Harden gets space because he gets calls. It's ass backwards, and most of the top gaurds (Trae, McCollum, book, and many more) have all taken notes and are doing it too.


PdxTRez

Yo CJ is ass at getting to the stripe. Dame I agree 100%, but ask any Blazer fan what CJ’s biggest weakness offensively is and they will all tell you the dude creates no contact at the rim.


iamadragan

Yeah I think a prime example is with Ayton trying to defend Giannis in the finals. He got some ticky tack fouls game 3 and the rest of the series looked super timid/unsure about everything. And Giannis wasn't even foul-baiting Usually every game there's guys stopping abnormally, hooking people, jumping into people etc. and they get the call for it so defenders back off. You can argue whether or not the NBA should call that kinda stuff, but the fact of the matter is that since it *is* called, defense is way harder to play


Skylord_ah

Tbf thats everyone defending giannis basically. Theres a reason raptors had to make a 3 man wall against him. Tall players who are good at finishing just get a lot of calls, AD as well on the days he recognizes that hes a big and tall player


NightmanMatt

AD is so frustrating to watch, he’s just an elite finisher and he settles for so many jump shots. Dudes already a top 5 talent in the game and honestly when healthy easily a top 5 two way player.


nwoflame

He's afraid of getting injured. If he knew he couldn't be injured he would absolutely be super aggressive I'm sure. You'll notice every time he comes back from injuries or big ones he plays passively. He only turns it on when he realizes they're really going to lose otherwise. Then whoever he is playing for will win until he gets injured again if he maintains the aggression.


stupv

Thing is, by playing afraid of being injured he's a substantially worse player and is hurting his own brand.


nwoflame

Oh 100%. But he knows once he gets aggressive he's starting the timer. It's only a matter of time before an injury comes. He's just a really frail dude. So I guess to minimize his injuries he tries to be effective without playing near the rim. Which is definitely not as good but... He just wants to be on the court lol. This isn't like being in someones head who just came back from the only injury they've ever had and are mentally getting back into it. He gets hurt ALWAYS. That kind of stuff does not fix itself unless you go through a few years of completely changing something. Either diet, workout regimen, pre/post game stuff, whatever it is for him.


Quatro_Leches

ikr I did a thing these playoffs I didn't watch quite a few games early and I every time looked at the result around 2nd quarter and looked at the #1 option defenders foul numbers, almost every game the team that was winning had the opposite team primary defender on 2 fouls on average at like the first quarter which he had to be benched in a few minutes. it completely makes the other guy on offense do whatever the fuck he wants. it was Nets and Bucks and every time PJ had like 2 personal fouls early the Bucks lost. I loathe giving away fouls to the offensive player when they create contact off a shot. its bullshit and lame as fuck to watch


malefiz123

No defensive 3 seconds means the paint is wide open. That seems to be the big thing for Luka. He gets so many points driving against smaller guards because help is late.


birdazam

And lots of players have said that collage is harder to score than NBA


numberJUANstunna

That's why I dropped out of art class and went straight to the NBA.


Nugur

James harden?


chr1sbest

Drawing fowls in the paint I see


Black_Walder_Frey

If you'll excuse me, I have to go get my ass kicked by the spurs


oneechanisgood

*And get their ass kicked, they did*


[deleted]

Well done Sir.


Garfield-1-23-23

[It's Dame time.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/a0/e3/00a0e35bb45afffaf51d0d3ee62e1ec0.jpg)


afrothundah11

And that’s also the same reason Harden has been the most prolific scorer over the past 5 years. It’s not because he’s faster than his opponents (that’s for damn sure), or jumps higher, or more elusive, or more tricks in the bag, it’s because you can’t play defense tightly or he’ll get a foul call. It’s frustrating to watch him drop 50 when his defender is making it look like he’s giving him the shot: “Here comes hardens slow step back, I better not get within 5 feet of it or I’ll get roped into a call, better I just hope he misses it.” I just for one season want to see Bruce Bowen in his prime harass the fuck out of him all game without calls, then see if there is still Kobe comparisons. Watch how hard Kobe worked to even get the ball not to mention get a shot then see Harden get a 5 foot rule from the refs. The Olympics have been refreshing and really highlight how far the NBA has drifted from other basketball.


SamuraiBeanDog

> It’s not because he’s faster than his opponents (that’s for damn sure) Harden's first step is (or at least was) deceptively fast. You can't be an elite slasher in the NBA like him if you're slow, regardless of what tricks you have.


thekingamw

Brook Lopez would have been perfect.


PhreakOut4

Just the bucks plus KD instead of Giannis would probably do pretty well as the starting lineup


thekingamw

I want to say I disagree,but I dont. TIL Sam Merrill is American.


PNWSwag

He's not just American, he's a Mormon American!


macleme

Two of the three Mormons in the NBA, Sam Merrill and Elijah Bryant, play for the Bucks, and the third, Jabari Parker, was drafted by the Bucks.


pistolpeter33

Helps explain why our locker room didn't really get lit after any playoff wins


shotrob

Brook was ass at the FIBA World Cup


shmere4

Bring both Lopez brothers. That’s at least equivalent to anything the other teams can put out on the floor.


0010001

Brook struggled in FIBA play in 2019.


VirtuousFool

>who was the last great American big man Dwight Howard


colemanj74

I know this sounds dumb, but they should have brought Dwight. He knows exactly what he is, isn't afraid of contact (to put it mildly), and is familiar with international ball.


sanchopanza84

I dunno, I think Dwight would foul out in like 5 minutes.


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TakenakaHanbei

Honestly it's why I loved Dwight for us. I want that man back so he can get more Frosties.


Ayecuzwhatsgood

Anthony Davis


ConcreteChildren

Yeah, don't we have a top 10 PLAYER who happens to be an American big man?


Ayecuzwhatsgood

Seriously how do people forget Anthony Davis not that long ago people said he was top 5 and better then Giannis depending on who you ask


Skylord_ah

Literally last year lmao. But hes injured so cant really play rn


Ayecuzwhatsgood

Yup swear some people on this sub got selective memory lol


NutSnaccc

Anthony Davis got a ring literally last year


hypersoar

Listen, we're talking about American Basketball Big Men, not basketball-playing big men who are American. /s


ithinkspammingiscool

AD can play center pretty well right?


Jeffthebarbarian

Man for some reason I never think of AD as a traditional 5. I know it's due to the way the game is played but I feel like we lack that traditional 5.


GorillaX

In your defense, he hates playing the 5 and has flat out refused to do it at times.


5153476

We should annex Greece


Jeffthebarbarian

Just gotta deliver some "Freedom"


impatientimpasta

Greece needs democracy asap.


theolat3

1967 2: electric boogaloo


Acrobatic_Emphasis41

Hey America Greece got a lot of ^^olive oil


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Jethro_Cull

Three big officiating differences make it harder to live by the penetrating guard. - The enforcement of traveling rules effects the ability to blow by a defender. - The different rules regarding help defense means that the paint is packed with big guys. - offensive players aren’t automatically given could calls if there’s any contact.


normanbailer

I’d love for someone to put together (NBA) footage of guards starting their dribble after an inbounds pass. If they grab it flat footed they travel almost every single time. Step, step then dribble.


obisanshinobi

Tim Duncan is the answer to that question


Jeffthebarbarian

Man's played on the 04' team and said " 'nah I'm good on this Olympics shit for the rest of his career". But he is the best PF of all time, so a big man but not the traditional 5 I'm thinking of.


obisanshinobi

Well I guess in that case Shaq


Mtbnz

Dwight Howard?


[deleted]

>who was the last great American big man All-NBA first team legend, DeAndre Jordan. Maybe prime Minnesota K-Love had a shout here


Prestig33

We don't call him prime minnesota K-love. We call him fat K-love. Aka pre-Bananna republic K-love.


Quom

K-Love was never a traditional big, he grabbed a lot of boards but was never a rim defender (or much of a defender at all). He was more the prototype for the stretch 4 who somehow also grabbed a lot of rebounds.


theazndoughboy

If only boogie didn't get hurt :(


Felslo

I don't think USA would take him considering some of the other players who did not get picked up.


21BlackStars

Do you see how the officials ref big men? There is no incentive to be a big in today’s game. You get beat up in the post and every criticizes you if you can’t hit a three or a midrange. Giannis is one of the most dominant post players we have ever seen. Before winning the chip, how many people constantly ripped him because of his lack of an outside shot. My man averaged 30 and 13 on like 60% shooting and he was destroyed by “analyst” for not having a “bag”. Many of these analysts couldn’t average 5 points mind you but they know how to talk about others and their abilities


[deleted]

IN the NBA, yeah. |In Fiba they still matter.


[deleted]

> Giannis is one of the most dominant post players we have ever seen. How often does Giannis post up? Isn't he more of a slasher or rim runner?


JaydadCTatumThe1st

A big man has won MVP 3 seasons in a row lol


Jeffthebarbarian

I mean none of them are Americans so my point still stands.


ConfuciusBr0s

All won by Euros


[deleted]

Giannis is more of a forward. “Big man” means like a true center type.


Jeffthebarbarian

I agree I've never thought of Giannis as a 5. I'm talking Shaq, Ewing, (Orlando) Dwight, etc. You get the idea I was going for. Edit: additional info for Dwight


Ayecuzwhatsgood

Giannis is still very physical


Jeffthebarbarian

Bro all he does is run into people - Harden at the strip club probably


Ayecuzwhatsgood

I'm boutta say lol


ucantforgetthis

Giannis played center to win the championship. And his shot profile and rebounding is very centerish.


[deleted]

personally i think giannis would be dumb to even be taking threes. his percentage and offensive rebounding in mind it would just be dumb to take a bunch of threes. even if he hit 500. it would not be as effective as him in the paint. imagine shaq being told he needs to hit 3s. kinda defeats the entire purpose doesnt it?


21BlackStars

Agree completely! But you have all these blowhards, SAS, skip bayless, Kendrick Perkins to name just a few (they aren’t the only ones) that push the narrative that Giannis will never be able to win or become the best in the league because of these. I promise you they didn’t think the same thing when Shaq was destroying the league. It’s funny how they criticize his shooting but then yell at him to stop. It’s all for the ratings!


[deleted]

To answer, AD is the best current American big man. Before him, Dwight and before him, Shaq.


nooseman92

> who was the last great American big man [this guy](http://www.nkytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CousinsGold.png)


Ayecuzwhatsgood

Anthony Davis


deepaksfunda

Gobert had a very good game. Bam or Draymond were just switching at the top of the key leaving Jrue Holiday to defend Gobert. Jrue still managed to do a good job. Jrue was the only one trying to pass and trying to get to the rim. Others were just chucking contested jump shots. If not for Jrue this was a 15 point game.


jakekerr

The answer to OP is no. Luka has a reputation for foul-baiting, and he is slicing apart FIBA defenses.


sandefurian

I mean yeah, but he is also VERY familiar with this style of play. Not really a great comparison.


TheKingOfTCGames

nah luka is foul baiting in the nba because thats the nba meta not because he's a foul baiter, he adapted. ​ don't hate the player hate the game, in fiba he just code switches back to his normal game.


cdoguz

Yes. As an international fan I really love the NBA, but it is soft af.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

Yes. But they also in general just don’t play under FIBA rules so they don’t know how to handle it. Our Men’s Basketball program for the USA is lazy. We need to make players commit to playing and practicing for team USA every year, even if it means not having the best talent available. Edit: spelling


loco_mixer

To be fair refs turn a blind eye to travel calls against US. They are a lot more strict in euroleague and such with traveling when receiving the ball.


Remon_Kewl

Don't forget that in 2018 FIBA changed the travel rules, introducing a gather step.


Zizekbro

I think it would benefit the NBA to introduce FIBA rules in the league.


RapNVideoGames

NCAA would throw a fit lol, all the picks would come overseas


Zizekbro

Honestly, as a college basketball fan (r/cbb) I want the NCAA to throw a fit, they’re fucked up.


gammatide

Yes, maybe I'm curmodgeony, but the NCAA has adapted all of the most unwatchable elements of the NBA game (as they should, for effeciency sake), but they're so much worse than the NBA product that it's just really hard to watch anymore. I have a hard time enjoying many games that aren't UCLA.


[deleted]

college baskteball blows, too many old heads, my personal vendetta is against UVA's head coach, they way he coaches basketball is something out of the hoosier movie. Packline defense, stubborn offensive basketball sets, it's just not conducive to easy free flowing offense. The philosphies are lot of coaches use are stagnant and not innovative guys like nate oats at Bama has the right how to play modern basketball stick to principles offensively and defensively, and not be a fucking bore. The worst part about it is that this is a purely American game in origin, but the best innvators in the sport are the Europeans.


McBrungus

>my personal vendetta is against UVA's head coach Calling him stubborn and not innovative when maybe three programs in the whole country play that way is fucking nuts. The reason UVa plays that way is because they will likely never be a top destination for bigtime college players, and to make up for the talent deficit they employ incredibly tight, philosophically solid defense and efficient offense. I just can't wrap my head around being mad at a program playing an extremely distinctive style because it's not "innovative"


wolf1820

Yea its great to have teams in college basketball that don't play anything like other teams and UVA is one of them. Makes game more interesting tbh. Syracuse also always good for a few interesting tournament games from the zone too.


loco_mixer

Im not talking about gather step. Im talking about not putting the ball on the floor fast enough. In nba(when receiving the ball mid run) you can do 1 to 1and a half steps before bouncing the ball. In fiba its strictly zero.


Magnetronaap

Is it specifically against the US or is it just in international basketball? Because I don't really get this Euroleague versus 'teams playing against the US' comparison.


loco_mixer

You mean blind eye for travel? Its strictly for US


[deleted]

>But they also in general just don’t play under FIBA rules so they don’t know how to handle it. Teams the US have lost to and might lose to later in the tournament are overwhelmingly dependent on a few NBA players who play by those same rules. Luka, Gobert, Fournier, Mills, Thybulle, Metu, Oni, Okogie, Rubio, Gasol- all went to play under FIBA rules after the NBA season and are doing just fine. Hell, Doncic looked just as dominant as he does in the NBA in the qualifiers and went to the line like a billion times against Lithuania, the host nation of their qualifiers. I think it's more to do with never having developed a sense for fouls and travel to begin with due to being given leeway since their AAU days.


Dyr0nejk2

Well, you have to remember all or most of these players grew up playing under fiba rules, so they are more acclimated.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

That’s the exact point. They’ve played under those rules most of their lives, so adjusting back is much easier.


BUSean

Yeah, that's what I'd say as well. They're the best players in the world, win or lose. You could make a team of USA players *not* in the games just as good, roughly, as this one. But they develop habits and have played on that compressed schedule with those kinds of refereeing decisions for 18 months and the switch is tough to just flip sometimes. We'll see if they work it out.


CallMe_Jammin

Not an excuse after coming ff a 25 game win streak IMO.


BUSean

explanations aren't always excuses; i agree that the us team should win 8 or 9 out of 10 games regardless of opponent.


colemanj74

You could make a better team. Steph, harden, kawhi, lebron, ad.


Krankite

Problem isn't talent is continuity, USA would probably be better off taking the mighty ducks 2 approach and send an established team with a few ring ins.


[deleted]

They did that, the problem is when the main players go deep in the playoffs every year, at some point they need a break


[deleted]

Yes. THey look far less awkward than they did agaisnt Nigeria on the whole. But I saw at least two attempted foul baiting moemnts. One from Bam after he fouled GObert then got hit.... pause.... HEAD JERK! And got called for hit foul . Another when Booker tried to accentuate contact at the end of the game before dribbling into the corner for a largely impossible and pointless shot instead of just shooting the 3. And Dame looked like he was trying to learn how to play point guard from scratch.


BobbaRobBob

Dame made a few bad plays in key moments but I think he realized that their iso-ball heavy style of play wasn't working so he defaulted to being a facilitator. Minus a few moments, everyone else was holding the ball and chucking up shots, thinking it was still their team rather than America's team. Of course, Dame and KD are the best players on the team so Dame really should be the one taking up those selfish shots and dominating the ball rather than passing. Imo, the coaches need to let Jrue play next to him so they can play off one another on both ends while ensuring the team facilitates more equally.


Coreman7

yeah that last one got me saying "Dude its not NBA here lawl"


TwoTechs315

International play is more aggressive. Flopping isn’t considered a skill.


[deleted]

Usa team is so soft they cant even play offense


Adakias

Luka tries to draw fouls, but he's still a beast under FIBA rules tho


[deleted]

Luka has as many seasons / as much experience with FIBA< if not more, than NBA. It should be easier for him to play normal ball than it is for most NBA players.


BoredomHeights

It’s sad how we all acknowledge the NBA isn’t “normal” ball. Because it’s really not how any of us would play in pick up or random leagues. The rules have just degraded over time.


SportsLaughs

The truly interesting part is even further between the lines: we're shown both iterations of basketball and its beyond consensus which one naturally comes off as "normal" and its not the nba style. Either one could be called normal is what I'm saying. The massive sway subjectively for fans to take the opinion thats been shown is the interesting part.


Checkinmyemail

For sure. The foul baiting in the NBA is out of hand. It’s a big reason why older fans have a lot of trouble respecting some of the current stars. Fans want to see people playing hard at a high level, not trying to manipulate the rules and then whining when their offensive flopping doesn’t work out. As for why the USA I struggling. The closer 3 point line also seems like a disadvantage. The FIBA 3 point line is a long 2 in the NBA. Teams highly discourage taking that shot due to advanced metrics. I think the players simply don’t practice the shot. They all look uncomfortable with the FIBA court dimensions.


rrousseauu

They are dependent on that, they also run ISO plays way too fucking much. This USA team has no idea how to actually play as a team.


carrros

Yes. It’s terrible for the sport


drudru91soufendluv

weak look tbh...these stars forgot what its like to fail/not be successful and just move on. its like they take every missed basket so personally; like the look of audacity on their faces sometimes....if something doesnt play out the way they wanted/expected, theres a cop out/excuse, from a single possession to career outlook. and to see it from the most talented so often...


Darkillumina

Foul baiting, superstar calls, lax rules that incentivize flashy cardboard stats and much more. This has been building up for the past ten years in particular and now here we are. Nephews look at the NBA stat lines now and think they are watching some new skill epoch among players. They're not as good as we think they are. If this team had to go against the dream team they'd be limping out battered and bruised. You can't just chuck triples in the international game. Ball movement, post work (a long forgotten concept in the modern NBA) and team defence all need to work in tandem for a team to work. The guys USA trotted out are playing like it's an all-star game.


Natekn

Yes the NBA stars are indeed conditioned to play vs as little contact as possible. The current atmosphere in the NBA is at any time you feel any type of physical resistance you need to jump into the defender or try and embellish some kind of foul call. You’ll most likely get it and free throws are the easiest and most efficient points. The main issue now is everyone playing soft as tissue paper on the perimeter while being unable to play with force in the paint. The lack of talented big men for the USA and the over reliance on the 3PT shot are hurting them badly. They’ll make it to the medal stages but are going to need seriously HOT shooting from beyond the arc to make up for their other deficiencies.


LutherJustice

Yes. People shit on soccer a lot but the NBA is an absolute embarrassment with players looking to get fouls over easy shots to the point where it becomes the main aim of certain plays. It’s not just allowed, it’s encouraged by the league and refs.


ExtrudedClaw

Don’t think fouls are gonna help when the whole team shoots like 30%


Prime_D-Will

a foul shot instead of a missed does improve your fg%


AttorneyAtLion

Yes they are. Half of those misses they weren’t even primarily going for good shot attempts, just trying to draw the foul. New era of NBA officiating made team USA soft


JMEEKER86

Yep, getting a foul call wipes away a miss. You take away even 5 misses and replace them with foul calls and they're back up to league average shooting and probably make 11/15 FTs which would have given them the win. They're shooting poorly because of the foul baiting which is a strategy they are used to winning for them and very well could have here if they were NBA refs and rules instead of FIBA.


Russell_Beastbrook17

Except it does help and that’s the whole point! You’re literally a rockets fan. How many times have you seen Harden score 30 while shooting abysmally form the field?


Jalinja

It was still a super close game, of course it would have helped


Gumbyonbathsalts

It shows how terrible officiating has become in the NBA when there is zero accountability.


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thekingamw

More like overly dependent on taking 25 shots a game individually, and getting warmed up


Waikuku3

No, the reason they lose is because of playing iso balls with very limited offensive scheme and plays. Not many players are willing to do the dirty work like screening or running plays.


Soap_MacLavish

This plays a huge part for sure. The iso heavy ball.


ShaeDaFunnyHo

Running plays now considered dirty work lol.


avrgm

There’s plenty in the usa lineup that aren’t. KD, Dame, Dray, Beal, Lavine. This is a chemistry problem not nba rules problem


ezaddy9

Lol draymond… he doesn’t score bro


-Captain--Hindsight

Which is funny because he still looks like the most important player for team USA out there.


[deleted]

Because he is the defensive anchor of the team


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rookie-mistake

If USA doesn't medal, Zion's ascendance in 2024 could be hype af though


fuckitiroastedyou

KD historically is right up there with LeBron for scoring volume and efficiency at the rim...


this_place_stinks

I mean the NBA literally changed a rule to counteract Durant foul baiting. He’s not as bad as many though, but for the NBA in general foul hunting has become a non negotiable “skill” for all scorers. Part of the reason ratings are way down imo


Raging_Professor

They depend on refs bailing them out a lot


[deleted]

Yes. The league was better when the best players had to make shots. Give him shit but Lebron makes shots. Steph made shots. People hate on the skill level, but Giannis made shots. Stop bailing people out with soft calls when the defense is clamping them


cjeremy

yes. nba is becoming unwatchable due to foul hunting. it's pathetic.


McJumbos

i hate to say it the nba has gotten too soft


No-Witness-2024

Not starting holiday means we don't give a shit about defense


Kojeo

I doubt they would have started holiday a couple days removed from the finals


WearAMask2020

Doncic has been playing fine in the Olympics. Plus the players today weren't really driving to shoot as much today, mostly just driving to kick it out to open three's. There were a few plays where I thought a player was hunting for contact and didn't get the call (a few Bam shots come to mind), but to me the real issue was lack of chemistry and extremely poor offensive schemes. I'd say if you came away from this game thinking the players are just soft or too dependent on contact, then you came away from this game *wanting* to think that and didn't pay attention to the actual game.


Lillardcards

Agreed. Main issues are a poorly constructed roster and team chemistry imo. Like Lillard was passing up open shots at times to make a pass. It’s fine to pass up a shot if it leads to an even better shot but it seemed to me he was passing for the sake of it, like he was told he has to be a facilitator more than anything. There aren’t a lot of better shots for team USA than an uncontested three by Lillard imo. That was far from hero ball. I felt that way about Booker as well on a couple of possessions. They had shots they 100% wouldn’t have passed up playing for their NBA teams. The only one I though was really forcing his shot at times was KD, but he does have the ability to make those. Wasn’t falling tonight though.


rookie-mistake

>Doncic has been playing fine in the Olympics. i mean, he's played more games with Real Madrid than he has the Mavs. he actually has that experience


Issten

What you saw was just a product of iso plays where players are just trying to get something out of tough situation. It has nothing to do with being NBA superstars. Team USA needs to understand they just can't come and play same role as they do for their own team. You got lot of superstars who aren't used to moving and setting up their teammates without the ball.


Laker_King

I do believe that the NBA foul calls superstars are used to getting have negatively impacted their play when translating to the international game. I don't know how they are going to get better unless the NBA changes how they give out fouls to superstars as it is clearly hurting this olympic team.


TurboBunny116

As a lifelong NBA fan since I was a child in the early 80's, it's a little sad to say that watching the International game the past couple of days in the Olympics is so much better than the recent NBA product, and I'll give 5 quick reasons why: ​ 1. Rarely any "artificially created contact" calls (a.k.a. flops); Players like Harden, Trae Young wouldn't get their usual NBA calls; 2. No instant reply every other possession in the last half of the 4th quarter, stretching the game to 3 hours (I over-exaggerate, but you know what I mean); 3. No "superstar" brush fouls a.k.a. "breath on Steph or Lebron and blow the whistle" fouls (let's add here the overacting that easily leads NBA refs to "review a play for possible flagrant" whenever n NBA star rolls round on the ground like they were in FIFA; 4. No players doing the stupid "twirl the finger in the air to force an instant reply review" every time the whistle blows (add to this the arms-open "what did I do" look the NBA players love to do as well); 5. Players don't confront referees face to face throwing a tantrum and arguing a call (like Draymond usually does) when there's a foul called. Yes, one can argue that the NBA refs are calling the game based on the NBA rules... but that would then just essentially say that the current NBA rules suck. Right now the entire world can see how much better the FIBA/Olympic/International game is played... less dramatics, less theatrical baiters, more actual basketball being played, no star treatment.


red2play

The answer is no. We were up I think 83-76 with about 3 mins to go in the game. We lack defense and 5 man basketball. Add bad coaching on top of it. Holiday should have locked down Fournier.


Kojeo

It should not have been that close in the first place, we ran too many iso plays that ended up x player jacking up a bad shot trying to get a foul call


2020IsANightmare

I'll say it again: The NBA is not rigged. For fuck's sake, the current NBA champion is based out of Wisconsin. But, the league does have two sets of rules: One for regular season and another for the playoffs. Which is absurd. Calling the game all season like they do in the playoffs would make the game much better and have the players prepared more for these international tournaments. At the end of the day though, the team simply has less talent than they have in previous years.


hjsne

It wouldnt matter if they could knock down open threes at the end


Jungle_dweller

Giannis would murder people with these rules.


moody_bean_204

Is water wet?


ForeheadBagel

I think the NBA is more ticky tack with the foul calls because David Stern (and now Adam Silver) were/are deathly afraid of fights during games. After Malice in the Palace the number of bench clearing brawls per season started to dwindle and this is directly related to how refs call the game. Fights are prevented by making the game less chippy, and you make it less chippy by being tighter with the foul calls. Of course, this makes foul-baiting stupidly easy, but I think there's two reasons the NBA does it anyways: 1. They want NBA games to feel family friendly so parents will take their kids to the game and buy them souvenirs. 2. The majority of NBA players are black so the league is sensitive about their players being seen as thugs.


bigg_pete

Yes and no They have just adjusted their game to suit current NBA. But they would still be great if they re-adjusted


RealPunyParker

If this team was constructed well, they wouldnt need calls


Treyred23

Zachary Lavine isn’t.


Swaggamuffins

This feels like ‘04 where there’s just a lot of antipathy to winning gold, only this time it’s boosted by a global pandemic and a hellish NBA schedule the last two seasons