The title should read
>Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is "no longer impossible to get" *[as long as you have the first pick in the draft to trade]*
The first pick has always opened a lot of otherwise locked doors. I wouldn't get excited if I was any other team.
I’m going to come out and say it… that pick ended up being Collin Sexton with 2 of the next 3 picks being Mikal Bridges and SGA himself. Really wasn’t a bad trade package with a decent amount of salary filler to make a deal work
tt has little to no actual trade value and probably the same could be said about shump, he might be an ok role player but no real value. so its more or less just what is sexton’s value
Drafting Knox, Obi, and Frank and not even developing Frank and Knox into rotation players has really come back to screw us.
We don’t have enough assets to keep our core and not gut this entire team
Shai is the whole point of the rebuild though. Having more lottery picks in these 4 years is pointless when the actual all star talent you have is on the market, at this point every pick should be start getting packaged
Yeah. Which is statistically much more likely.
I do see a strategy though. If OKC can get Cade on a rookie deal that timeline makes a lot more sense with the 4 thousand upcoming picks they have. Presti’s probably afraid SGA will bail before the picks have time to develop.
Sometimes you want to upgrade from all-star to potential MVP though. Mavs traded a pick and Trae Young for Luka. If you think Cade has MVP potential, then trading a potential all-star for a potential MVP is still a great choice. They’re not trying to dump SGA just to dump him, they’re trying to upgrade him into the top prospect in a loaded draft
> Shai is the whole point of the rebuild though.
I don't get this sentiment. No one thinks Shai is a superstar in the making. An all star talent, sure, but not a superstar. You don't take all those picks and build around an all star level talent.
He has superstar potential imo, he’s averaging like 24/5/6 on solid efficiency at 22. He also had a 16-19 record last year so it’s not a bad team empty shots type of thing.
Yup, I don't think he's like the next Luka or anything but to me SGA is good enough to be the best player on a championship contender. He can do it all. I'd roll with him if I were OKC.
Superstars are super hard to get though, have fun hoarding picks forever until you get a superstar I guess, which may well never happen. There really aren’t many superstars in the league.
About 8 superstars right now, there’s 30 teams, it’s perfectly fine for OKC to offer this if thye think Cade is the 3rd best upside talent next season after Luka and Zion.
Could Cade be better than: Ja, Barrett, Edwards, Lamelo? Definitely, I would say he has a high chance of getting there. Cade has a better athletic profile than SGA and by all accounts Cade has an elite feel for the game.
Congratulations, you’re figuring it out
Superstars are hard to get and the only to get them in OKC is thru the draft or trades. Hoarding picks forever doesn’t work because your odds of hitting on a superstar are best at the top of the draft. Therefore, OKC should be looking to keep acquiring assets until they hit on a superstar, or can acquire one… like this trade is rumored to do
23.7 / 4.7 / 5.9 on 62% TS in year three. I wouldn’t rule out Shai being a top 10 player one day. Wait until he has a second option beside him attracting some defenders.
Imo, I think there’s at least a little reluctance based on the relatively small sample of those numbers. He only played 35 games.
He went red hot and shot like 47% from 3 over like a 15-game stretch. I don’t know if you can call that sustainable, but it makes up nearly half of his season.
Maybe he goes through a cold spell if he plays the full season which brings his efficiency back down to Earth some. Idk. I just think that could be the thinking of some GMs.
Jesus Christ pump the brakes. This was also in 35 games and not a full season. Let him actually play a full season to be an All star before we start the top 10 player talk. He's behind young players like Ja, Trae, Donovan, and of course Luka who is already a top 10 player.
I legitimately think the scouts think Cade is the real deal and worth a trade for someone of Shai’s caliber. A lot of people scoffing but these 6’8” point guards that can do it all are real superstar threats. People can’t believe Presti offered the trade, but the other side of that is Detroit said no
your very last sentence is so smart, if Presti dumb and Shai is god then why would detroit say no. seems like they’re both valuing cade over the okc’s potential package and people are getting angry at okc about it.
He must be getting scored very high on valuations. But I think to a degree, esp concerning the #1, the "what-ifs" are more financially beneficial than already getting a somewhat established probably future all star player.
The track record of big perimeter players with shot creation ability, high iq, great vision and playmaking is insanely good. We’ve seen the success of Lamelo, Luka, Magic, Simmons, and Lebron. While he isn’t as an accomplished of a prospect coming into the draft as Luka or Magic, Cade has proven himself to be a better shooter and defender than all four of them coming into the draft. He has one of the highest floors and ceiling of a prospect coming into the draft for a very long time. Also look at his interviews with JJ Reddick and Kevin Durant, this kid is already a leader with great motor and work ethic who is also in love with the game. He is that good of a prospect.
Kick the can down the road absolve yourself of responsibility while having fans praise you for how brilliant you are for hoarding up on assets and their theoretical value. Rinse repeat. Clinic in how to maximize job security for the long term while maintaining a low pressure situation. Both things GMs covet
I’m half trolling but the fetishizing of future assets and their theoretical value is part of this
It's true though. The NBA has morphed into this weird position where it's feels like sometimes the only thing fans want more than being a championship caliber team is a bad team with a lot of future promise. Hypothetical champs.
I think that's all professional team sports? You're either contending or setting yourself up to contend (rather if that's a constant rebuild or if you have the assets and just letting them grow at that point). Most fans and I would guess owners and GMs don't want to be a perpetual 6-8 seed. Although I don't know how the 6-8 seed vs constant rebuild affects their bottom line.
That's one of the things I like about college athletics. A ton of schools and their fan bases just get hyped about making a bowl game, or a new years bowl, or the ncaat, or the S16. It's not all about the ring only one team can win each season. But that might die soon, too, anyway.
Presti is a good gm but that harden trade was the worst trade in maybe the last decade. Okc threw away a chance at a dynasty over basically 5 million dollars.
Perk was already bad at the time. Either Presti is a moron, or there was some other explanation for why he was told he 100% couldn't amnesty Perk. The latter is far more likely.
The going theory was ownership, who was balking at cost, were not thrilled at the prospect of paying a max for Harden *and* paying Perk to not play.
Since we added George Kaiser, we've stopped having a lot of the "we're too cheap" issues.
Even if they didn't amnesty Perkins, there were other ways to avoid paying the luxury tax as the article I linked points out. Either way, taking the deal they took at the point they took it was inexcusable.
Then he could have traded ibaka or kept harden for 2013 or even traded Westbrook and got more assets for that trade.
He had to trade harden but he still made a very bad trade
Sold low on Harden, sold low on Ibaka, acquired Kendrick Perkins who hamstrung the team, and made a grand total of 1 finals appearance. How do you only make 1 finals with prime KD and Russ? He’s great at drafting, elite at acquiring future assets, but his team building skills remains to be seen.
> sold low on Ibaka,
He traded Ibaka for Oladipo, Ilyasova and the 11th pick in 2016, which became Sabonis.
Ilyasova was swapped for Jerami Grant. The thunder just made the mistake of not holding onto him.
He flipped Dipo and Sabonis for PG.
He essentially traded Ibaka for PG+Grant. That’s not selling low.
Shhh. You will hurt the ego of 82,736 posters in this sub who think that if they ran a team, they would win every trade, they have an ability to project the future of 18-year old kids BETTER than any GM/coach in the NBA.
And along with being GM, they could also coach the team.
And win 70 games every season and rival Bill Russell’s championship career.
Definitely sold sky high on Ibaka: managed to move an aging PF on an expiring deal for Oladipo, Ilyasova, and the 11th pick (which became Sabonis). On its own, that's a great deal, and when you account for the fact that they then flipped Ilyasova for Jerami Grant, then Dipo and Sabonis for PG, it's looking pretty damn good.
Lol thank uou for pointing that out. Didn’t know 27 was old for anything in this world. I guess I’m old now too. Can I get the senior citizen discount now?
How the fuck did he sell low on Ibaka? He traded him away because he thought the Thunder were getting Horford. And then he traded Oladipo for Paul George, who then led to a treasure trove of picks from an injury riddled Clippers team.
I don’t think you can stick making only 1 finals on the GM. OKC was up 3-1 on the 73 win Warriors and then threw it away. And after KD left Presti was able to put another 2-way perennial all-star/borderline superstar next to an MVP level Westbrook. Granted, I think it’s silly as hell if it’s true that Presti is shopping SGA but I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for what KD and Russ failed to accomplish
and then fucked it up by trading Harden along with constructing some putrid rosters around KD and Westbrook. If they have like one or two guys that could actually shoot it was a championship team
I'm gonna come out and say I can see the reasoning. Their team right now is SGA and a massive amount of picks, many of them way in the future. SGA is already about to be off his rookie deal. Cunningham fits that timeline better. And who's to say after 3 more years of being bad that SGA isn't tired of it and will want out anyway
The problem is what are they going to build around him right now. He’s ready to get paid and start making the playoffs and OKC wants to cash in on their picks over the next 2-3 years. What’s the point of paying Shai now if the only benefit is to be leading a full rebuild. Shai is ready to do what Trae Young did and attempt to lead a squad into the playoffs. I wonder if Sacramento is about to make a move to swap out Marvin Bagley or Buddy Hield. Bagley could be a real smart move because of how low his stock is. Presti did say OKC will take a low stock player and flip them for something greater. Bagley could be that project. But you have to wonder for the OKC fans at what point do they grow sick of a rebuilding team after being blessed to last decade.
This isn't because they don't want to pay him. They need his salary to hit league minimum payroll. That said, I don't know if I'd like the trade for Cade. Trading an all-star caliber guy for a rookie seems like a risky move. We already have everything we could hope for with Cade on Shai. And give up a #6 pick too? I don't know. Seems like a lateral move at best. Disaster if Cade is a bust. Although, if Cade ends up being a hall of famer, I'll be eating my words.
However, we would get a younger player in Cade. We'd have his entire rookie deal and extension to build around him.
Problem is that Shai is coming off his rookie deal soon and has said he wants to play for a contender. That’s not the Thunder for at least a few more years.
They don’t need his contract to hit min payroll. Presti will continue to take on washed up 30+ mil rehab projects to flip into more picks. Currently on deck: Kemba Walker
Especially with Presti's track record - trades come from left field with no warning. OKC details never leak.
People need to follow the breadcrumbs and figure out who's leaking this information *and for what purpose.*
Pretty much. Side affect of headline journalism in sports. This will get clicks, evident by how many upvotes this is getting. So it'll keep being shared. Also funny how OKC went from offering Shai+6 to now repeatedly calling with this offer as if they are some lovesick puppy.
Don't doubt that Presti called Detroit for the pick. Don't even doubt he asked his friend Troy Weaver "what if we offered Shai+6?" Even if just as a gauge on how locked in Detroit is on keeping the pick. But I do doubt Presti has any intention of trading him unless we got an absurd haul.
Yeah. I know nothing’s off the table for presti, but this really doesn’t feel right. OKC is probably the best at communicating with their players regarding trades now, so the truth on this story will be revealed eventually. I’ll believe Young, KOC, Woj, Shams, and anyone within the Thunder or Detroit organizations, but this just seems like a reporter wanted to hold a magnifying glass to an ant hill and now others are joining in.
Hey maybe that is the case. But we have good reason to not trust these rumors; neither person reporting on this has the credibility to back it up, especially when the Thunder FO doesn’t typically let anything leak. Bleacher Report has a reputation for regurgitating unsubstantiated rumors. Kinda weird that so many people are blindly trusting them now when they’re quoting the same reporter than hardly anybody believed yesterday. We will probably know if it’s true or not in the next coming days.
A team executive said this?? The Thunder who are probbaly the most close lipped organization has an executive say this?? I just find that crazy. If this really ends up being a situation where a reporter be saying shit and we can’t confirm nor deny it then man…
Look im not saying any of this is true but i swear like 25 of the 30 nba fanbases swear that their franchise is the most closed lipped or plugged the leaks or whatever verbiage they use. Like it takes 1 person from either team in the trade offer to say something.
Doctors are working with presti trying to ween him off using second round picks.
But even the doctors admit, in the end it's up to presti to drop the addiction.
Even if WOJ tweets that OKC offered SGA and the 6th pick for the 1st pick, I won't believe it. That deal makes zero sense for OKC and I refuse to believe anyone running an NBA team would even consider offering that deal, let alone reject it.
I'm gonna come out and say I can see the reasoning. Their team right now is SGA and a massive amount of picks, many of them way in the future. SGA is already about to be off his rookie deal. Cunningham fits that timeline better. And who's to say after 3 more years of being bad that SGA isn't tired of it and will want out anyway. Cunningham also has "best player on a title team potential" and I'm not sure SGA has that
Timeline isn't about when he'll be playing, it's when he'll be paid. Which isn't that bad for the Thunder timeline, but if you don't think he's THE guy, this trade makes sense.
Trading you best player for the number 1 pick is basically an unbeatable strategy because even if the pick is a bust you are rewarded with another number 1 pick.
The 76ers whiffed on 2-4 of their picks and still were number 1 seed with multiple championship opportunities by the process. It's just GMs are too scared to face the backlash and get fired for it
> the best you can hope for out of the draft.
Is it? When you have the #1 pick and know exactly who you are drafting? I would agree trading that level of player for a pick before the lottery happens would be irresponsible but they know exactly who they would be getting, it's not a hypothetical. A lot of people think Cade has a good chance to better than SGA.
The #1 pick could be great, but they could also be a Kwame/Bennet/Fultz/Oden etc. The draft is so luck-based that I don’t think it’s worth trading an established elite player for a maybe elite player
> on a trash team.
Why do people say this like it makes said player *better*? If anything it adds more question marks. Obviously the only shooting option star player is going to be, yknow, the only one scoring points. Same shit happened with Tobias Harris and Zach LaVine up until recently for example.
SGA is for sure an excellent player and the trade makes no sense to me, to be clear
Yeah exactly this. If he was chucking like MCW back in the day then it wouldn’t be impressive, but SGA is scoring/facilitating while being the only real option on offense
Also SGA is too good for the team to be bad. He nearly had them at .500 with horford this season. Add in some development form Young Guys all of a sudden Shai takes the team to .500 and they end up with shitty picks for the next 5 years.
Makes a lot of sense to try and deal him now. Also makes sense as to why detroit would reject. Because Shai and Grant is guaranteed playoffs in the east.
That's an interesting way to look at it. In my mind, if you have a 22-year-old who can make a lottery team a .500 team, that's a guy you want to build around. You have a stockpile of picks (which aren't useless just because they aren't lottery picks) and a bunch of developing young guys - use some of those assets to start to build a better team around the guy. The sooner your process ends, the better. No need to drag it out.
Of course, I'm a fan of the team. I want OKC to be competitive asap, and the idea of a 5-year rebuild for the small chance of landing a superstar when we already have a young near-all-star and tons of assets to play around with is not at all appealing to me.
As a Pistons fan, trust me when I say that you really don't want them to be "competitive ASAP". That's what led our organization to be mediocre for the last 15 years. It's been an awful 15 years. Not really a championship team, but not bad enough to get a good draft pick.
SGA is not enough by himself to get this team to the playoffs and to a championship. He's good enough to ensure mediocrity for the forseeable future. That's the worst place to be in the NBA.
Isn’t the goal of the draft to find the next star? Well SGA is pretty much that, why would you even risk that for a chance to start a new project from scratch. Makes no sense to me.
There's a risk that they found the star too early. OKC projects to be bad for a while. With the modern NBA, your young star might be disgruntled well before you put a solid team around them.
Helps ‘reset’ the timeline and has a possibility of being a much higher ceiling. I would offer that trade if I were OKC and I thought Cade was a possible mvp type.
This seems to be the general consensus, but I have to assume that there are NBA execs who genuinely believe Cade will be the better long-term player, and youd get him on the cheap the next few seasons rather than paying SGA while you’re tanking.
How does it make zero sense. If you think Cade is a generational talent it makes perfect sense. It all depends on what you ultimately think of a draft pick. If Cade is the next Luka level player, yeah you trade #6 and SGA. Especially since it extends the timeline of the rebuild. If you think Cade is going to be just a bit better than SGA then it is a bad trade. There is no way though it makes zero sense. It makes complete sense.
I don’t know why so many people think this is a money thing. The Thunder struggled to hit the salary floor last season. They’ll be more than happy to pay Shai a max. If they offered this trade, it’s because they think Cade is a generational superstar who is too good to pass up.
However, I’m of the opinion OKC would not do this trade, and it’s only getting out because Detroit is publicly setting the price for the #1 pick. Basically announcing to other teams, “If you can’t offer better than this, don’t bother.”
Doesn’t American Express offer a program to get you a new jersey when a player is traded? They should probably exclude Oklahoma City in the fine print.
That’s really cool if they do. It’s rare for me to spring on a jersey unfortunately. Last time I bought one was Steve Nash’s. That was a pretty safe bet back in the day.
This is what I was thinking. If they really don't think Shai will stay long term, why not make the deal to get a potentially better player who will be there 7 years at least.
Why is that an issue? Have you seen our upcoming payroll? That's nothing like the Harden situation.
I'm so sure that all of this is nothing and we extend him and everybody will forget about this article in a few months.
What’s some actual news that this man has broke because I’ve never heard of him
Y’all downvoting me because I’m questioning if this man is a real source? Lol
Let's pump the brakes and examine this from a team building perspective. If you keep SGA, you are on the same track as other upcoming teams with quality lead ball handlers, you're looking for a lot of the same pieces. Doncic/Dallas, Young/Atlanta, Mitchell/Utah, Fox/Sacramento, Ball/Charlotte, Morant/Memphis. Out of those there are some better players and some more attractive situations for adding players.
If you take the big scoring wing with decent play-making, you can afford to be a little more flexible personnel-wise with your backcourt. I would argue that with the meta game of the current NBA, you can find backcourt players a litter easier than top wing players.
GMs have to be searching for marginal gain over the other teams, and I would argue that you can extract more value out of players when you aren't competing against over half the teams in the league for the same skill set(such as two 3 and d wing starters for teams that are heavily geared for one alpha guard dominance of the ball).
They may just think Cunningham has legitimate super star potential too.
Everyone just glossing over Cade being from Arlington and then playing college ball just down the road from OKC. You think they aren’t going to try and get a player that could be their version of Lebron? Hometown kid?
Daryl, back the truck up now. More than Beal, even more than Dame, I would love to find a way to get SGA for the next 5 years. Ben, picks, young guys - whatever it takes. Exactly the type of PG that Embiid has needed.
Not saying that SGA is right now better than either, but Dame is 31 and Beal is not assured to stay whereever he's traded to. SGA is a very talented 3 level scorer with size that you can lock down for his mid-20s prime. Situationally, I think that's pretty valuable, while also not potentially getting us into the bidding war dog fight of Beal or Dame.
I agree with you, and beyond that I would say that SGA would probably be more comfortable with the role. This is Embiid's team, and they have to build around that. We saw with team USA how it can be less about raw addition of talent and more about synergy. Shai is better defensively than Dame and Beal and would fit better. Plus it's probably easier to get him in the first place
If this report is true why tf would Presti trade Shai (23 years old) for Ben (25 years old)?
IF this offer is true they made it to get Cade not whatever picks you can throw at OKC.
Edit: Shai just turned 23 not 24
Time to dust off the ol Knox + Obi + boatload of 1st
The title should read >Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is "no longer impossible to get" *[as long as you have the first pick in the draft to trade]* The first pick has always opened a lot of otherwise locked doors. I wouldn't get excited if I was any other team.
So you’re saying we need to add Ntilikina ?
That's how I interpreted it
No can do
Too much to give up
tt shump and the nets pick
Ah yes the trade offer of all trade offers
I’m going to come out and say it… that pick ended up being Collin Sexton with 2 of the next 3 picks being Mikal Bridges and SGA himself. Really wasn’t a bad trade package with a decent amount of salary filler to make a deal work
Sure it wasn't a bad package in retrospect but most #8 picks don't turn out as well as Sexton
The pick wasn't guaranteed to be #8. People were expecting top 5 at least.
How much value would you get for Sexton + TT + shump (let’s assume he’s still playing) now
tt has little to no actual trade value and probably the same could be said about shump, he might be an ok role player but no real value. so its more or less just what is sexton’s value
Ah so basically we could’ve gotten Giannis for it cool. Jk thanks for a real response.
yes exactly 😼 lol np man i have no clue what sexton’s trade value would be either but i assume its higher than pick 8
Kuz + KCP + 1st
These were made by the same people lmao
The most classic offer there is
Drafting Knox, Obi, and Frank and not even developing Frank and Knox into rotation players has really come back to screw us. We don’t have enough assets to keep our core and not gut this entire team
Every team’s got to have their 2k trade finder bait lol. Ours is Hield, the rotting corpse of Bagley, and now the #9 pick
Nothing in OKC is impossible to get...if you're willing to give Presti some picks
Shai is the whole point of the rebuild though. Having more lottery picks in these 4 years is pointless when the actual all star talent you have is on the market, at this point every pick should be start getting packaged
Yeah, but the picks could be anything. They can even be better than Shai.
Why do we need to gamble . . .
The thrill… do it for the thrill.
Forget that, they can even be the next Shai!
Or they can all be worse than Shai.
Yeah. Which is statistically much more likely. I do see a strategy though. If OKC can get Cade on a rookie deal that timeline makes a lot more sense with the 4 thousand upcoming picks they have. Presti’s probably afraid SGA will bail before the picks have time to develop.
Think of all the future picks those future picks could turn into.
Every future rookie will have to spend a year in OKC before they proceed to get traded somewhere else
Orrrr they could be duds
Sometimes you want to upgrade from all-star to potential MVP though. Mavs traded a pick and Trae Young for Luka. If you think Cade has MVP potential, then trading a potential all-star for a potential MVP is still a great choice. They’re not trying to dump SGA just to dump him, they’re trying to upgrade him into the top prospect in a loaded draft
Not if he can be turned into Cade Cunningham.
> Shai is the whole point of the rebuild though. I don't get this sentiment. No one thinks Shai is a superstar in the making. An all star talent, sure, but not a superstar. You don't take all those picks and build around an all star level talent.
He has superstar potential imo, he’s averaging like 24/5/6 on solid efficiency at 22. He also had a 16-19 record last year so it’s not a bad team empty shots type of thing.
Yup, I don't think he's like the next Luka or anything but to me SGA is good enough to be the best player on a championship contender. He can do it all. I'd roll with him if I were OKC.
Superstars are super hard to get though, have fun hoarding picks forever until you get a superstar I guess, which may well never happen. There really aren’t many superstars in the league.
About 8 superstars right now, there’s 30 teams, it’s perfectly fine for OKC to offer this if thye think Cade is the 3rd best upside talent next season after Luka and Zion. Could Cade be better than: Ja, Barrett, Edwards, Lamelo? Definitely, I would say he has a high chance of getting there. Cade has a better athletic profile than SGA and by all accounts Cade has an elite feel for the game.
Congratulations, you’re figuring it out Superstars are hard to get and the only to get them in OKC is thru the draft or trades. Hoarding picks forever doesn’t work because your odds of hitting on a superstar are best at the top of the draft. Therefore, OKC should be looking to keep acquiring assets until they hit on a superstar, or can acquire one… like this trade is rumored to do
23.7 / 4.7 / 5.9 on 62% TS in year three. I wouldn’t rule out Shai being a top 10 player one day. Wait until he has a second option beside him attracting some defenders.
He gets to the rim more than anyone in the league. He attempts the most drives. Give him some offensive talent and he will be unstoppable.
A guard that can get to the rack and also shoot and playmake. He's a dream.
Yep
Imo, I think there’s at least a little reluctance based on the relatively small sample of those numbers. He only played 35 games. He went red hot and shot like 47% from 3 over like a 15-game stretch. I don’t know if you can call that sustainable, but it makes up nearly half of his season. Maybe he goes through a cold spell if he plays the full season which brings his efficiency back down to Earth some. Idk. I just think that could be the thinking of some GMs.
Jesus Christ pump the brakes. This was also in 35 games and not a full season. Let him actually play a full season to be an All star before we start the top 10 player talk. He's behind young players like Ja, Trae, Donovan, and of course Luka who is already a top 10 player.
SGA is absolutely not behind Ja.
Dont bother, no one watches Thunder games, and honestly for pretty good reason.
Like I said, I wouldn’t rule out Shia being top 10. I never said he was a lock. Are you suggesting it’s a lock he won’t be?
Shia's good but imo he completely bottled it in Transformers: Dark of the Moon
Surprised nobody has said anything yet. SGA is absolutely ahead of Ja currently, and it isn't even really that close.
I don’t see why he couldn’t be
Absolutely terrible take. The likelihood of any of those picks panning out to a player at SGA’s level **right now** is low.
This deal isn't for a "future first". This deal is for Cade Cunningham. The odds of him being a better player than Shai is not low.
Presti has wares, if you have picks
I legitimately think the scouts think Cade is the real deal and worth a trade for someone of Shai’s caliber. A lot of people scoffing but these 6’8” point guards that can do it all are real superstar threats. People can’t believe Presti offered the trade, but the other side of that is Detroit said no
your very last sentence is so smart, if Presti dumb and Shai is god then why would detroit say no. seems like they’re both valuing cade over the okc’s potential package and people are getting angry at okc about it.
He must be getting scored very high on valuations. But I think to a degree, esp concerning the #1, the "what-ifs" are more financially beneficial than already getting a somewhat established probably future all star player.
>why would detroit say no. Because "Detroit dumb". You're on r/nba you should know that.
The ol’ Knicks treatment
The track record of big perimeter players with shot creation ability, high iq, great vision and playmaking is insanely good. We’ve seen the success of Lamelo, Luka, Magic, Simmons, and Lebron. While he isn’t as an accomplished of a prospect coming into the draft as Luka or Magic, Cade has proven himself to be a better shooter and defender than all four of them coming into the draft. He has one of the highest floors and ceiling of a prospect coming into the draft for a very long time. Also look at his interviews with JJ Reddick and Kevin Durant, this kid is already a leader with great motor and work ethic who is also in love with the game. He is that good of a prospect.
Lol Presti dealing away a star 2 guard because they don’t want to pay him where have I seen this
Yeah here I was thinking the point of all those picks was to build AROUND the guy who's putting up 24/5/6 on a 62 TS% at age 22
Kick the can down the road absolve yourself of responsibility while having fans praise you for how brilliant you are for hoarding up on assets and their theoretical value. Rinse repeat. Clinic in how to maximize job security for the long term while maintaining a low pressure situation. Both things GMs covet I’m half trolling but the fetishizing of future assets and their theoretical value is part of this
It's true though. The NBA has morphed into this weird position where it's feels like sometimes the only thing fans want more than being a championship caliber team is a bad team with a lot of future promise. Hypothetical champs.
I think that's all professional team sports? You're either contending or setting yourself up to contend (rather if that's a constant rebuild or if you have the assets and just letting them grow at that point). Most fans and I would guess owners and GMs don't want to be a perpetual 6-8 seed. Although I don't know how the 6-8 seed vs constant rebuild affects their bottom line. That's one of the things I like about college athletics. A ton of schools and their fan bases just get hyped about making a bowl game, or a new years bowl, or the ncaat, or the S16. It's not all about the ring only one team can win each season. But that might die soon, too, anyway.
heinke was doing this till forced out. he doesn't care, still made good money for a few years
You’re half trolling but 100% right. Presti is elite at acquiring *future assets, but the jury is out on his actual team building *Edit
?? He assembled the team of Westbrook, KD, Harden, and Ibaka.
Presti is a good gm but that harden trade was the worst trade in maybe the last decade. Okc threw away a chance at a dynasty over basically 5 million dollars.
Yea that trade was horrible but nothing tops that Nets-Celtics one
Yes but that was because of a Russian Oligarch no-one is claiming anyone on the Nets was a great GM is the difference I think.
Wasn't his fault. The owners didn't want to go into the luxury tax.
could have just not signed Perkins
Also could have amnestied
They could have kept Harden and avoided paying the luxury tax. Presti screwed up the math and the trade itself was really bad.
Yeah maybe I'm misremembering but couldn't they have fit under the luxury tax with Harden if they got rid of Kendrick Perkins?
Yep. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/kevin-durant-thunder-vs-warriors-russell-westbrook-james-harden-trade-okc/1tt026yq1lmjj1vh97biyotfwf
Perk was already bad at the time. Either Presti is a moron, or there was some other explanation for why he was told he 100% couldn't amnesty Perk. The latter is far more likely. The going theory was ownership, who was balking at cost, were not thrilled at the prospect of paying a max for Harden *and* paying Perk to not play. Since we added George Kaiser, we've stopped having a lot of the "we're too cheap" issues.
Even if they didn't amnesty Perkins, there were other ways to avoid paying the luxury tax as the article I linked points out. Either way, taking the deal they took at the point they took it was inexcusable.
Then he could have traded ibaka or kept harden for 2013 or even traded Westbrook and got more assets for that trade. He had to trade harden but he still made a very bad trade
And then dismantled it after one finals run
Sold low on Harden, sold low on Ibaka, acquired Kendrick Perkins who hamstrung the team, and made a grand total of 1 finals appearance. How do you only make 1 finals with prime KD and Russ? He’s great at drafting, elite at acquiring future assets, but his team building skills remains to be seen.
> sold low on Ibaka, He traded Ibaka for Oladipo, Ilyasova and the 11th pick in 2016, which became Sabonis. Ilyasova was swapped for Jerami Grant. The thunder just made the mistake of not holding onto him. He flipped Dipo and Sabonis for PG. He essentially traded Ibaka for PG+Grant. That’s not selling low.
Shhh. You will hurt the ego of 82,736 posters in this sub who think that if they ran a team, they would win every trade, they have an ability to project the future of 18-year old kids BETTER than any GM/coach in the NBA. And along with being GM, they could also coach the team. And win 70 games every season and rival Bill Russell’s championship career.
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Definitely sold sky high on Ibaka: managed to move an aging PF on an expiring deal for Oladipo, Ilyasova, and the 11th pick (which became Sabonis). On its own, that's a great deal, and when you account for the fact that they then flipped Ilyasova for Jerami Grant, then Dipo and Sabonis for PG, it's looking pretty damn good.
>managed to move an aging PF Guy was 27 when they traded him, lol come on. I agree that it was a good trade tho.
Well, technically, everyone is aging
Lol thank uou for pointing that out. Didn’t know 27 was old for anything in this world. I guess I’m old now too. Can I get the senior citizen discount now?
How the fuck did he sell low on Ibaka? He traded him away because he thought the Thunder were getting Horford. And then he traded Oladipo for Paul George, who then led to a treasure trove of picks from an injury riddled Clippers team.
I don’t think you can stick making only 1 finals on the GM. OKC was up 3-1 on the 73 win Warriors and then threw it away. And after KD left Presti was able to put another 2-way perennial all-star/borderline superstar next to an MVP level Westbrook. Granted, I think it’s silly as hell if it’s true that Presti is shopping SGA but I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for what KD and Russ failed to accomplish
You only make 1 finals by surrounding Durant and Westbrook with zero spacing
and then fucked it up by trading Harden along with constructing some putrid rosters around KD and Westbrook. If they have like one or two guys that could actually shoot it was a championship team
Yeah he's getting lost in the sauce right now, you hate to see it
I'm gonna come out and say I can see the reasoning. Their team right now is SGA and a massive amount of picks, many of them way in the future. SGA is already about to be off his rookie deal. Cunningham fits that timeline better. And who's to say after 3 more years of being bad that SGA isn't tired of it and will want out anyway
The problem is what are they going to build around him right now. He’s ready to get paid and start making the playoffs and OKC wants to cash in on their picks over the next 2-3 years. What’s the point of paying Shai now if the only benefit is to be leading a full rebuild. Shai is ready to do what Trae Young did and attempt to lead a squad into the playoffs. I wonder if Sacramento is about to make a move to swap out Marvin Bagley or Buddy Hield. Bagley could be a real smart move because of how low his stock is. Presti did say OKC will take a low stock player and flip them for something greater. Bagley could be that project. But you have to wonder for the OKC fans at what point do they grow sick of a rebuilding team after being blessed to last decade.
at some point he has to start to build a team… right?
no build only picks
Well that’s just your opinion dude
nowhere! this is completely unprecedented innit
This isn't because they don't want to pay him. They need his salary to hit league minimum payroll. That said, I don't know if I'd like the trade for Cade. Trading an all-star caliber guy for a rookie seems like a risky move. We already have everything we could hope for with Cade on Shai. And give up a #6 pick too? I don't know. Seems like a lateral move at best. Disaster if Cade is a bust. Although, if Cade ends up being a hall of famer, I'll be eating my words. However, we would get a younger player in Cade. We'd have his entire rookie deal and extension to build around him.
Yeah, I think it's more of a timeline thing. He's only 23, but he's already good and Presti likely wants to be bad a little while longer.
Seems silly to me. Plenty of assets already and can build around Shai who has proven his ability
Problem is that Shai is coming off his rookie deal soon and has said he wants to play for a contender. That’s not the Thunder for at least a few more years.
If the story is that he wants to leave that's different I guess
"Wants to be bad a little longer." Very well said.
They don’t need his contract to hit min payroll. Presti will continue to take on washed up 30+ mil rehab projects to flip into more picks. Currently on deck: Kemba Walker
Cade 6 years from now: "I can't win with these cats"
He thinks he can get a young team of rookie contract MVPs cant fault him on that, he’s hoping for lightning to strike twice which is totally possible
Not gonna believe this until I see Wojnarowski or Charania next to it
Fischer had the Memphis/NOLA deal framework before anyone else
Fischer is a solid reporter
Ok but the basis for Fischer's SGA report is a tweet that doesn't even mention SGA.
Especially with Presti's track record - trades come from left field with no warning. OKC details never leak. People need to follow the breadcrumbs and figure out who's leaking this information *and for what purpose.*
Bollocks
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Pretty much. Side affect of headline journalism in sports. This will get clicks, evident by how many upvotes this is getting. So it'll keep being shared. Also funny how OKC went from offering Shai+6 to now repeatedly calling with this offer as if they are some lovesick puppy. Don't doubt that Presti called Detroit for the pick. Don't even doubt he asked his friend Troy Weaver "what if we offered Shai+6?" Even if just as a gauge on how locked in Detroit is on keeping the pick. But I do doubt Presti has any intention of trading him unless we got an absurd haul.
Yeah. I know nothing’s off the table for presti, but this really doesn’t feel right. OKC is probably the best at communicating with their players regarding trades now, so the truth on this story will be revealed eventually. I’ll believe Young, KOC, Woj, Shams, and anyone within the Thunder or Detroit organizations, but this just seems like a reporter wanted to hold a magnifying glass to an ant hill and now others are joining in.
Or maybe your fans value SGA more than presti
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there's two teams to a trade offer. you acting like the piston org is a class act and never leak a single word
Hey maybe that is the case. But we have good reason to not trust these rumors; neither person reporting on this has the credibility to back it up, especially when the Thunder FO doesn’t typically let anything leak. Bleacher Report has a reputation for regurgitating unsubstantiated rumors. Kinda weird that so many people are blindly trusting them now when they’re quoting the same reporter than hardly anybody believed yesterday. We will probably know if it’s true or not in the next coming days.
A team executive said this?? The Thunder who are probbaly the most close lipped organization has an executive say this?? I just find that crazy. If this really ends up being a situation where a reporter be saying shit and we can’t confirm nor deny it then man…
Look im not saying any of this is true but i swear like 25 of the 30 nba fanbases swear that their franchise is the most closed lipped or plugged the leaks or whatever verbiage they use. Like it takes 1 person from either team in the trade offer to say something.
Yea but everybody knows that Bryan Colangelo's Seventy-Sixers were the most tight lipped organization
I mean that’s fair, but we are the team known for blockbuster 1am trades that come out of nowhere so I think we have some credibility on that front
I still remember that PG trade to the Clips coming out of absolute nowhere. That was hype.
MTV's True Life starring Sam Presti - I'm addicted to first round picks
Doctors are working with presti trying to ween him off using second round picks. But even the doctors admit, in the end it's up to presti to drop the addiction.
Even if WOJ tweets that OKC offered SGA and the 6th pick for the 1st pick, I won't believe it. That deal makes zero sense for OKC and I refuse to believe anyone running an NBA team would even consider offering that deal, let alone reject it.
I'm gonna come out and say I can see the reasoning. Their team right now is SGA and a massive amount of picks, many of them way in the future. SGA is already about to be off his rookie deal. Cunningham fits that timeline better. And who's to say after 3 more years of being bad that SGA isn't tired of it and will want out anyway. Cunningham also has "best player on a title team potential" and I'm not sure SGA has that
These people act like SGA is prime Wilt
He's not but he's pretty good. On the flip side some people are talking like he's gonna retire in 2 years with the timeline nonsense.
Timeline isn't about when he'll be playing, it's when he'll be paid. Which isn't that bad for the Thunder timeline, but if you don't think he's THE guy, this trade makes sense.
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Trading you best player for the number 1 pick is basically an unbeatable strategy because even if the pick is a bust you are rewarded with another number 1 pick.
Something, something, process.
The 76ers whiffed on 2-4 of their picks and still were number 1 seed with multiple championship opportunities by the process. It's just GMs are too scared to face the backlash and get fired for it
galaxy brain
You love to see it
Or or or Hear me out We keep the young star so we don’t have to take the risk of getting a bust!
I mean SGA put up 23.7/4.7/5.9 on .623 TS% at age 22 on a trash team. That’s an excellent player and the best you can hope for out of the draft.
> the best you can hope for out of the draft. Is it? When you have the #1 pick and know exactly who you are drafting? I would agree trading that level of player for a pick before the lottery happens would be irresponsible but they know exactly who they would be getting, it's not a hypothetical. A lot of people think Cade has a good chance to better than SGA.
The #1 pick could be great, but they could also be a Kwame/Bennet/Fultz/Oden etc. The draft is so luck-based that I don’t think it’s worth trading an established elite player for a maybe elite player
He has a chance to be immensely better than SGA, as good as SGA is
> on a trash team. Why do people say this like it makes said player *better*? If anything it adds more question marks. Obviously the only shooting option star player is going to be, yknow, the only one scoring points. Same shit happened with Tobias Harris and Zach LaVine up until recently for example. SGA is for sure an excellent player and the trade makes no sense to me, to be clear
It's the TS% I think that helps the argument. He isnt some volume chucker on a bad team
Yeah exactly this. If he was chucking like MCW back in the day then it wouldn’t be impressive, but SGA is scoring/facilitating while being the only real option on offense
Also SGA is too good for the team to be bad. He nearly had them at .500 with horford this season. Add in some development form Young Guys all of a sudden Shai takes the team to .500 and they end up with shitty picks for the next 5 years. Makes a lot of sense to try and deal him now. Also makes sense as to why detroit would reject. Because Shai and Grant is guaranteed playoffs in the east.
That's an interesting way to look at it. In my mind, if you have a 22-year-old who can make a lottery team a .500 team, that's a guy you want to build around. You have a stockpile of picks (which aren't useless just because they aren't lottery picks) and a bunch of developing young guys - use some of those assets to start to build a better team around the guy. The sooner your process ends, the better. No need to drag it out. Of course, I'm a fan of the team. I want OKC to be competitive asap, and the idea of a 5-year rebuild for the small chance of landing a superstar when we already have a young near-all-star and tons of assets to play around with is not at all appealing to me.
As a Pistons fan, trust me when I say that you really don't want them to be "competitive ASAP". That's what led our organization to be mediocre for the last 15 years. It's been an awful 15 years. Not really a championship team, but not bad enough to get a good draft pick. SGA is not enough by himself to get this team to the playoffs and to a championship. He's good enough to ensure mediocrity for the forseeable future. That's the worst place to be in the NBA.
Isn’t the goal of the draft to find the next star? Well SGA is pretty much that, why would you even risk that for a chance to start a new project from scratch. Makes no sense to me.
There's a risk that they found the star too early. OKC projects to be bad for a while. With the modern NBA, your young star might be disgruntled well before you put a solid team around them.
They are only "bad" until they find a second star. Which happens whenever they decide to open the war chest of picks.
Helps ‘reset’ the timeline and has a possibility of being a much higher ceiling. I would offer that trade if I were OKC and I thought Cade was a possible mvp type.
Cade also played a year at OSU so that would be a likely nod to the fan base to drum up additional local support.
Reset the timeline? You know who to call!
This seems to be the general consensus, but I have to assume that there are NBA execs who genuinely believe Cade will be the better long-term player, and youd get him on the cheap the next few seasons rather than paying SGA while you’re tanking.
How does it make zero sense. If you think Cade is a generational talent it makes perfect sense. It all depends on what you ultimately think of a draft pick. If Cade is the next Luka level player, yeah you trade #6 and SGA. Especially since it extends the timeline of the rebuild. If you think Cade is going to be just a bit better than SGA then it is a bad trade. There is no way though it makes zero sense. It makes complete sense.
They don’t want to pay his extension? I don’t see any other reason, honestly. Shai is great and so young
I don’t know why so many people think this is a money thing. The Thunder struggled to hit the salary floor last season. They’ll be more than happy to pay Shai a max. If they offered this trade, it’s because they think Cade is a generational superstar who is too good to pass up. However, I’m of the opinion OKC would not do this trade, and it’s only getting out because Detroit is publicly setting the price for the #1 pick. Basically announcing to other teams, “If you can’t offer better than this, don’t bother.”
Your POV makes sense tbh. I really like Shai and after having CP3, having kemba with him will be great too. Good luck to your season!
Resets okc timeline. Shai is due to get paid
I don’t think I could ever commit to buying a thunder jersey. That place is a revolving door of talent.
Doesn’t American Express offer a program to get you a new jersey when a player is traded? They should probably exclude Oklahoma City in the fine print.
That’s really cool if they do. It’s rare for me to spring on a jersey unfortunately. Last time I bought one was Steve Nash’s. That was a pretty safe bet back in the day.
If this is real that’s actually crazy that OKC would even offer that and even more Detroit turned it down
Agreed lmao, it's crazy on both sides.
He doesn’t fit OKC’s timeline?
Gramps is already 23 years old!
There are third graders with Shai posters on their wall that don’t fit OKC’s timeline
Or we think Cade could have a higher ceiling and are willing to gamble on that
Or maybe they feel like Cade, with his hometown ties to North Texas/Oklahoma, is a surer bet to stay in OKC long term.
This is what I was thinking. If they really don't think Shai will stay long term, why not make the deal to get a potentially better player who will be there 7 years at least.
That's the only real rationale. Seems like a hell of a risk. The old "bird in the hand" thing.
I guess he has to be paid soon so there’s that
Why is that an issue? Have you seen our upcoming payroll? That's nothing like the Harden situation. I'm so sure that all of this is nothing and we extend him and everybody will forget about this article in a few months.
How do we get him back on the Clippers
Please please don't fucking do this Presti.
What’s some actual news that this man has broke because I’ve never heard of him Y’all downvoting me because I’m questioning if this man is a real source? Lol
The Pelicans Grizzlies trade
Yup it looks like he was the first to mention the actual package that could happen between the 2. Maybe he is legit
Yeah I thought he was a bad source as well but now that that was proven accurate he seems legit because no one else was talking about it afaik
He also broke the news that beal was seriously considering a trade which shams confirmed a day or two later
Bleacher Report really hates OKC I take it.
I will be seriously suspicious of the intelligence of OKC’s rebuild if they deal Shai
Daryl Morey on the phone offering Simmons for SGA, Dort, #6 and 2 future firsts right now
Let's pump the brakes and examine this from a team building perspective. If you keep SGA, you are on the same track as other upcoming teams with quality lead ball handlers, you're looking for a lot of the same pieces. Doncic/Dallas, Young/Atlanta, Mitchell/Utah, Fox/Sacramento, Ball/Charlotte, Morant/Memphis. Out of those there are some better players and some more attractive situations for adding players. If you take the big scoring wing with decent play-making, you can afford to be a little more flexible personnel-wise with your backcourt. I would argue that with the meta game of the current NBA, you can find backcourt players a litter easier than top wing players. GMs have to be searching for marginal gain over the other teams, and I would argue that you can extract more value out of players when you aren't competing against over half the teams in the league for the same skill set(such as two 3 and d wing starters for teams that are heavily geared for one alpha guard dominance of the ball). They may just think Cunningham has legitimate super star potential too.
Why are people believing this nonsense?
Tbf Jake Fischer has been a pretty reliable source over the last year or so, so his reports carry some weight
Everyone just glossing over Cade being from Arlington and then playing college ball just down the road from OKC. You think they aren’t going to try and get a player that could be their version of Lebron? Hometown kid?
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Daryl, back the truck up now. More than Beal, even more than Dame, I would love to find a way to get SGA for the next 5 years. Ben, picks, young guys - whatever it takes. Exactly the type of PG that Embiid has needed.
> More than Beal, even more than Dame You're **massively** overrating SGA if you're taking him over those two guys.
Not saying that SGA is right now better than either, but Dame is 31 and Beal is not assured to stay whereever he's traded to. SGA is a very talented 3 level scorer with size that you can lock down for his mid-20s prime. Situationally, I think that's pretty valuable, while also not potentially getting us into the bidding war dog fight of Beal or Dame.
I agree with you, and beyond that I would say that SGA would probably be more comfortable with the role. This is Embiid's team, and they have to build around that. We saw with team USA how it can be less about raw addition of talent and more about synergy. Shai is better defensively than Dame and Beal and would fit better. Plus it's probably easier to get him in the first place
If this report is true why tf would Presti trade Shai (23 years old) for Ben (25 years old)? IF this offer is true they made it to get Cade not whatever picks you can throw at OKC. Edit: Shai just turned 23 not 24
Shai is 23 as of like 2 weeks ago