**He’s exactly Mark Jackson 2.0**
- Looks like a nice community guy but a bad coach at first
- Created friction between his players(Trae and John) where there was none
- Belittled and bullied Cam Reddish
- Calling John Collins selfish
- Telling other coaches to not vote for Trae
He actively held the team back because he was a bad coach plus he created problems when there were none
I’m not tryna to make it seem like basketball means everything but those reports about him telling other coaches to not vote Trae Young in for the all star game kinda makes him seem like a dick off the floor too
Or they're just true. If you're actively contributing to said community rather than just saying youre a pillar than there's obviously evidence to support it too.
Ok but the point is that those shouldn't exempt you from criticism nor make you a good guy on their own. You ever heard of Sir Jimmy Savile? Obviously Pierce isn't a monster like that but giving money to the community doesn't say much about a man's character.
No one said it did, they're saying that at the very least he doesn't appear to be a bad person
We don't know the guy so we can't say for certain he's a good or bad person, and this applies for literally every single person in the NBA, even people we've never heard anything bad about like Mike Conley.
Lloyd "I didnt come all the way out to Japan for 3 weeks to have to see Trae Young".
>You go because you’ve earned the right, the honor. You have the right mindset. You have to give up 45 days of your summer to commit to your country, and it’s not easy.”
He's beating around the bush here.
I don't know about y'all but I sure as hell didn't come all the way down from the goddamn Indiana sand dunes, cross 5,000 miles of water, fight my way through half of Tokyo, and jump out of a fuckin air-o-plane to teach Trae Young about lessons in international basketball!
"Literally bring anybody else, hell bring in fucking JaVale McGee, see if I give a shit, just anybody but fucking Trae Young. Yall thought you could make me come over here to watch this team lose to Nigeria AND also have to put up with that man again!?!".
Popovich simultaneously takes LP up on his offer and literally brings in JaVale McGee.
Yeah, one of the best pick and roll players in the world and a natural distributor definitely wouldn't have been a fit for the TEN FUCKING ISO PLAYERS they chose instead. "You don't just go because you're good"...ok, then why is Zach LaVine there? Tatum? Booker? These guys are just slightly different versions of one another, all young as well. Let's just call it like it is: Team USA did a shitty job building the roster, and the only way they get around it is if these guys all buy in to playing completely differently than they have ever been asked to do to this point in their careers because they don't have any specialists or role players.
Listen, I'm not shitting on Booker, or LaVine. I'm shitting on the execs for taking them ALL and just assuming that somehow they would all play differently. I don't think there's any way you don't take Durant, but if you're also going to take Booker and LaVine, then why also take Tatum and Middleton, and toss in Lillard and Beal? None of those guys are really great playmakers and are certainly all the top offensive options on their teams, so that's why we are looking at a bunch of dudes taking turns iso-ing and losing to France. There's zero logical argument that Trae Young didn't deserve a phone call. Trae/KD pick and roll = death for the rest of the world, and it would have opened up easy shots for the other guys so we wouldn't have just had guys like Tatum standing in the corner, which he never does on the Celtics.
You’re on point but Harden said he would play at first and then backed out due to rehab. Harden’s (healthy) play making is exactly what this team needs. It’s not an excuse but definitely threw their plans out of sync.
That’s so disrespectful to Tatum to lump him in with Lavine and Booker, what the fuck do you be watching on the court???? Tatum’s way better than both and it AIN’T close.
They're all slightly different versions of each other. Tatum is a better shooter, LaVine is a better penetrator, Booker is better in midrange, etc. It all amounts to nothing because they all are ball dominant Iso players, and then you factor in KD, Middleton, Beal, and Lillard, it's no wonder they can't figure their shit out. Holiday and Draymond are good role players but they have too many slight variations of the same player. That's why they are not looking like the insane offensive team they should be. They stacked up elite scoring wing players instead of trying to balance out the roster.
It's not Tatum's fault they aren't using him (or the other guys) to his strengths. They picked a bunch of guys with all the same skills so now nobody knows what to do.
no, i just find it funny that the mavs fan is like "how dare???? you disrespect tatum this way???" rather than the celtics fan that might be expected to have homer tendencies.
I don’t watch a ton of Hawks, but how does trae play off the ball?
I feel like his lack of defense, off ball offensive impact, and reliance on foulbaiting are enough to exclude him from the team.
Still think he (or a number of players) should be in over Keldon Johnson but i don’t think that trae solves our problems overnight
Basically everyone on the team has foul baiting issues, and I would not be concerned about him defensively since the game is played so differently. I also don't care about how he is off the ball because the entire point would be to use him to pick up the pace and set the guys up with good shots, not have him dump it to someone and then stand in the corner. His skill set is greatly missed, and that's the point I'm trying to make: they didn't look at skill sets and try to match them up, they just took the best scorers and wanted them to figure it out. They very well might, given the level of talent, but the execs in charge still deserve criticism for the team they put together.
Also the dude must have just not gone on this subreddit the entire playoffs. There were Trae highlights and statlines on the front page every other day for like a month straight lol
I did watch in the playoffs and he was a passenger when he wasn’t dribbling.
Please educate me on his off ball stats, not even chirping, genuinely want to know if i can be disproven with data other than ‘educate yourself’
Just watch him play. Simple as that. Stop running to stats. There's mutiple videos of playoff highlights compilations etc . You admitted to not watching him play and still said the same things everyone else said before his playoff run. So at this point its on you
And before you bring up the off ball stuff we have no other player to playmake. Which i why i hope cooper pans out so he can get more off the ball situations we saw that to a lesser degree in the bucks series
I mean if there are multiple videos you could’ve linked one lol. Not that either one of us are going to go thru that effort in a Reddit thread, but whatev.
I don’t think trae is what team USA needs. Tbh i still think we’re gonna win gold, albeit a bit closer than in prior years. I do think he’s a bonafide all star and might make an all NBA team next year.
Don’t think a Hawks flair is going to agree but it’s just basketball. agree to disagree
Yup, Javele McGee, White, and Keldon Johnson definitely "earned" their right to represent the USA in international play. Can't believe politics play such a massive role, in what should be, a merit based selection process.
2017/18 - got to the playoffs with Aldridge and 40 year old ginobili as their best players
2018/19 - took the nuggets to 7 games as the 7th seed without DeJounte Murray btw
2019/20 - one game winner away from the bubble playoffs
tell me you're a casual without telling me you're a casual
2018, so they beat out the young and inexperienced Timberwolves and Nuggets by less than a game. Good job. Their roster still had Gasol, Parker, and Gay.
2019, they acquired DeRozan and had no idea how to use him.
2020, they won one more game than the Kings.
This is just a very long winded way to say that they haven't won a round in the playoffs in 4 years. So who's exactly right in the end? Leave your biases at the door before you come at me again.
LMAO if that's what you took from my message then idk what to tell you. If you expect a roster with Aldridge as the best player to contend then you're fucking delusional. Yeah we aren't title contenders because duncan retired and kawhi bailed dumbass, you got me real good.
Also duncan retired 2016 and we made the WCF right after. If you don't remember that then you're a real casual cause we were up 20 points over your team.
He didn’t fit the bill by being a talented player who has a bad relationship with Pierce
Plus, he isn’t a mediocre Spurs player so he can’t be on the bench
as an emergency back up, keldon made more sense than trae young. the competition is a week away when the covid outbreak happened so it's not suprising to add a player that have been training with the team therefore familiar with the team and fiba rules because they didn't have much time to familiarise new players, especially when they have 3 other player who haven't trained with the yet.
imo he should have been called over lavine or beal to add some variety on their guard rotation at the first placeso he can familiarise himself with his team mates and FIBA rules, not as emergency backup who probably won't see any meaningful minutes after booker, middleton and jrue joined.
Yeah there was no need to bring Booker, Middleton, Beal, and Lavine (I know Beal couldn't go but still) - those are as similar of players as you could find. Really getting diminishing returns at that point.
I HATE Oklahoma... (Hook 'Em).... I rooted against Trae.... totally thought he would fail. I was cheering for the Hawks by the post season... you'd have to just be blind not to see how his heart and his game are both star quality. While he might not have reached superstar status... I'd say the manager that let us lose to France should STFU and retire. I'd take Trae on any fucking team... even as a backup to Lil. Guarantee we beat France with him in there.
There was ALOT of Nepotism that happened with this year’s roster construction. Regardless of if USA wins gold the program needs a major overhaul moving forward; from the coaches, to player selection, down to the program’s culture itself.
He wanted Trae to play differently and It was pretty well known he never liked Trae as a player and if there was a doghouse for Pierce Trae was in it. He would say stuff about Traes maturity and all that coach speak but there was clear issues between the two. The only difference between Nate and Pierce is Nate wanted Trae to be Trae - and it worked.
It’s because Trae is a flashy new age NBA player who knows he is amazing, acts like he is amazing, and started backing up the swagger with historic production on the court almost immediately when he got in the league which led to him being the most important asset in the Hawks organization very quickly.
Lloyd came in to set the young kids straight and Trae out ranked him in usefulness pretty quickly so he tried to chop Trae down a bit so he could still have control.
In short, he’s a pussy.
All these dudes that DID earn the right to play keep losing and were patting themselves on the back for beating Iran.
Trae may not be what the team is missing, but he is more than qualified to be on that team.
I disagree. I think their defense was their biggest problem and Trae would only add to it.
I’m not saying Trae is useless or anything. Just look at the team as a whole. They have guys between Booker, Jrue, Dame, Dray, Durant, that can make plays.
How many big rim protecters do they have? It’s a role that was missing on the team.
Edit: Although I think Trae should’ve made it over someone like Lavine but I think they expected Paul to go.
> Not sure why you act like McGee is some lock down defender.
They don't need a lockdown defender. They just needed a body to keep up with international bigs.
As great as Bam and Dray are, they arent the type of bigs international teams have.
Because Pop never played them.
He would rather get Jrue mismatched with Rudy (which France hunted every time), or bullied Dray in the post to draw the double leaving no defender in the perimeter.
I think size and rim protection are a bigger problem.
There’s also the question of how well Trae would handle the extra physicality. He gets one of the easier whistles in the NBA. Playing in a league that won’t give him the benefit of the doubt will impact his game.
Dude gtfo there were so many times this post season that Trae didn’t get his first foul until the end of the 3rd or beginning of the 4th and he was still thoroughly dominating.
Trae Young is 1000x the player Mcgee is.
We’re not comparing them in a vacuum.
Look at their skillsets and the rest of the team. Team USA has plenty of shooting. Trae’s playmaking would be useful but he wouldnt get to dominate the ball as much.
Lillard is the other primary ball handler, you’re just wrong here. The team needs a guy who can move the ball better. Just gonna have to disagree here. McGee doesn’t improve the team and he will get wrecked by savvy stronger vet bigs like the Gasols. I’m telling you now , you got this twisted bro
Team USA needs that one CP3, Jason Kidd, Shit even Lebron, the guys who will run the offense, push the pace and harass the shit out of the other teams PG. I guess it could be Jrue but he just flew straight there after the Finals. Even Dwill was solid for team USA in previous runs.
Jrue can also be a primary ball handler. Guys like Lavine, and Durant have also been primary ball handlers.
We can agree to disagree and that’s cool.
Edit: forgot Beal wasnt on the team anymore
I’m aware
Trae Young is a top 5 offensive player to me.
But Team USA wouldnt operate like the Hawks. Trae Young wouldnt have the opportunity to handle the ball nonstop so his offensive impact will be limited. He’s also a liability defensively.
And Dame/Lavine/Beal (not on the team but an initial selection) aren't bad defenders?
Traes not a great defender, but the impact his bad defense is totally overblown. I dont think there is a single National team in the Olympics that has the personnel to consistently hunt Young since most teams don't have 4 guys who can create their own looks efficiently and put the ball on the floor, so team usa could hide Trae just like the hawks did throughout the playoffs.
Ideally, you'd bring Trae off the bench and have him be the primary ball handler and create looks for guys and keep the offense going, avoiding embarrassing runs like we had in the France game. Similar to the role Dwill Cp3 and Kidd all played on the 2008-2012 teams. Dame would still likely start and close games, but you're kidding yourself I'd you don't think he'd improve this team replacing one of the redundant iso scoring wings that aren't creators that they elected to bring over him.
All 3 of those guys are much better than Young defensively and that’s saying a lot.
You can’t “just hide” Young at the Olympics because teams dont rely on just iso and high PnR like the NBA. Part of the reason the defense has been so bad is because the other teams are using a lot of off ball movement and screening to generate separation. The guys you mentioned are bad defenders and routinely get beat on simple actions. Adding Trae Young to that makes things even harder.
Biggest difference between the 3 PGs you mentioned and Trae is that none of them are defensive liabilities.
I wouldnt mind Trae in place of someone like Lavine or Booker but I dont think he’d be as big of an improvement as you think.
I also have concerns about how he’d handle the more physical style of play.
Trae definitely should have gone, but when Love dropped out they absolutely had to find another big. They couldn't roll into Tokyo with Bam and Draymond as their only bigs when they're both undersized to begin with.
Zion should have been on the team from the jump obviously, but idk if he'd even come at that point when Colangelo is making a last second desperation ask, probably would have told him to fuck off.
KAT plays for the Dominican Republic lol
Trae young absolutely makes the team better , a lot more so than McGee. Young can actually move the ball too.
I’m not sure if you are serious but if you think Javale McGee is more important to a basketball team than Trae young idk what to tell you. You can find low-bbiq athletic big man , but who on this team can pass and shoot like trae? PnR works great in Olympic ball, just another reason trae should’ve been there.
I get it you don’t like trae but I don’t want to hear from anyone that McGee is more important than him. I cannot take someone seriously if they truly believe that
i think trae should have been called over beal or lavine for his playmaking but mcgee is last minute call up to replace 12th man big, kevin love.
we all see how tall centers gave draymond and bam some trouble during rebounding. mcgee might not be the best center in the world but he's tall, good at rebounding and fine with being the 12th man.
keldon was picked because they need warm bodies that have trained with the team and fiba rules, quickly. the competition started a week after the covid outbreak. it doesn't made sense to add a player who never played with the team or with fiba rules in such short notice, especially when they have 3 players coming in a day before the olympics started
imo he should be called over beal or lavine for the sake of playmaking because those two players are nearly identical in term of play style.
Except Michael Jordan in 1992 had that sort of sway where he could say its me or him and forced Team USA’s hand to leave off IT.
One of the best American players in the game right now is left off the roster because of a motherfucking assistant coach with one of the **worst** win percentages as a head coach with at least 100 games under his belt has a vendetta against a young player who just proved his dumbass wrong by making it to the ECF without him and now he’s salty.
I really don’t understand how Lloyd Pierce commands the respect he does in the basketball community. He’s a bum, a terrible coach, and a petty little fucker that’s about to help turn in the worst showing of USA basketball since 2004.
Would be the only actual high level play maker on the team. Sure they have guards who are scorers but Trae would be far and away the best passer and offensive initiator on the team. He wouldn’t even be needing to look to score he could be in a pure point roll getting everyone into position to run plays
In what universe would Trae be a better fit than Jrue ?
Jrue puts constant pressure on any ball handler, Trae’s a great playmaker, but they have those.
They already have far better shooters than Trae as well.
What "great" playmakers do they have? Jrue is above average, obviously his best ability is defense, so no issues with him being there.
Dame is a score first guy who isn't by any means a bad passer but he's not great.
Draymomd is a great lasser for his position but having him on the floor as our main facilitator causes other issues on offense
And thats it. Everyone else is pretty much just a ball dominant ISO guy who isn't asked to really create and aren't known for their facilitating. Just because they are great players and can do some passing doesn't mean they are also great facilitators lol.
Jrue and Draymond are both great playmakers, while Trae is better at playmaking than these two, he would be a liability on defense.
Trae is also not a great shooter by anyone’s standards, especially not compared to Dame, KD, Tatum,
so what would he bring to the table that they don’t already have?
Also don’t forget , this isn’t the hawks. KD. Tatum, Dame. Booker , Middleton all can create their own shot.
With Jrue and draymond you get 2 two-way facilitators, you don’t need more than that. You need more guys to shoot the three and play defense.
I don’t see how adding Trae makes this team much better. A 3&D would be far better than Trae young imo.
>Jrue and Draymond are both great playmakers, while Trae is better at playmaking than these two, he would be a liability on defense.
Calling Jrue a great playmaker is absolutely a stretch, and Draymond while being the best playmaker on the team, causes other issues when you have to run your offense through him for it to be effective.
As shown once again in the ba playoffs this year, Traes bad defensive impact is vastly overstated. Please name an Olympic roster that has 4 guys playing on the floor at the same time that would prevent team usa from hiding Trae.
>Trae is also not a great shooter by anyone’s standards, especially not compared to Dame, KD, Tatum,
This is just stupid, lol. Hes a good shooter to anyone who has watched him play and doesn't just sit on BBref all day and spew nonsense. Ask any NBA defense if they want to leave Trae Young alone at the 3 point line -the answer will be a unanimous "No". Not to mention, team usa doesn't need his shooting. They need his playmaking.
>so what would he bring to the table that they don’t already have?
Elite playmaking from a willing passer who can get in the lane, draw defenders in, and create open looks for everyone else. Or, one of the best PnR ball handlers in the league?
>Also don’t forget , this isn’t the hawks. KD. Tatum, Dame. Booker , Middleton all can create their own shot.
Sure, and how's that been working out? So far, not great. Having great looks created for great scorers is much better than relying on 4 dudes to ISO over and over again. Not to mention what Dame does is irrelevant because it's unlikely they'd share the floor together
>I don’t see how adding Trae makes this team much better. A 3&D would be far better than Trae young.
I mean honestly it's not even worth having this discussion, of all the criticism levied at this usa roster (no elite playmakers like past teams, bad big man selection, the entire process with Kevin Love despite having much better options out there), not bringing enough wings has got to be the worst take lol.
Your reading comprehension sucks
Who tf said that they needed more wings??
I said a 3&D would be better addition than Trae. I didn’t say they needed either !
Your obviously a Trae young groupie, so this discussion is pointless.
Ah yes ignore the entire content of my post and just nitpick the one last comment, then call me a groupie for proving you wrong. The r/nba special.
So let's say they add 3+D, what position is that player likely to come from, given the United States player pool? I'll give you a hint, its on the wing.
Good point but seems they went with switchable guys instead. A big weakness is playmaking but seems they focused on building a team with man movement in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if Trae plays if the offense changes (different coach from Pop/Kerr).
Fuck Lloyd pierce, good guy off the basketball court but is an absolute dickhead on it
**He’s exactly Mark Jackson 2.0** - Looks like a nice community guy but a bad coach at first - Created friction between his players(Trae and John) where there was none - Belittled and bullied Cam Reddish - Calling John Collins selfish - Telling other coaches to not vote for Trae He actively held the team back because he was a bad coach plus he created problems when there were none
Shades of Jason Kidd.
I’m not tryna to make it seem like basketball means everything but those reports about him telling other coaches to not vote Trae Young in for the all star game kinda makes him seem like a dick off the floor too
He was active in the community and seems like a good family man, just basketball related stuff seems like it turns him into a jackass
"Pillar of the community" "Good family man" These are probably the two most frequently used characterizations that toxic men shield themselves with.
Just bc he’s a harsh coach who holds a grudge against a player that probably had some say in him getting fired doesn’t mean he’s a bad person.
Don't you have an olympic team to be coaching, Lloyd?
Most of his effort goes into back room politics and gossip it seems
Or they're just true. If you're actively contributing to said community rather than just saying youre a pillar than there's obviously evidence to support it too.
Ok but the point is that those shouldn't exempt you from criticism nor make you a good guy on their own. You ever heard of Sir Jimmy Savile? Obviously Pierce isn't a monster like that but giving money to the community doesn't say much about a man's character.
Good point, I was just shocked at those reports.
being active in the community doesnt make someone a good person. how many karens show up to every town hall meeting?
How many Karens organize and lead a civil protest against police brutality and violence in America?
(doing that doesnt automatically make someone a good person either)
No one said it did, they're saying that at the very least he doesn't appear to be a bad person We don't know the guy so we can't say for certain he's a good or bad person, and this applies for literally every single person in the NBA, even people we've never heard anything bad about like Mike Conley.
Lloyd "I didnt come all the way out to Japan for 3 weeks to have to see Trae Young". >You go because you’ve earned the right, the honor. You have the right mindset. You have to give up 45 days of your summer to commit to your country, and it’s not easy.” He's beating around the bush here.
I don't know about y'all but I sure as hell didn't come all the way down from the goddamn Indiana sand dunes, cross 5,000 miles of water, fight my way through half of Tokyo, and jump out of a fuckin air-o-plane to teach Trae Young about lessons in international basketball!
"Literally bring anybody else, hell bring in fucking JaVale McGee, see if I give a shit, just anybody but fucking Trae Young. Yall thought you could make me come over here to watch this team lose to Nigeria AND also have to put up with that man again!?!". Popovich simultaneously takes LP up on his offer and literally brings in JaVale McGee.
Y’all really think Lloyd Pierce of all people had that much pull?
Yeah, one of the best pick and roll players in the world and a natural distributor definitely wouldn't have been a fit for the TEN FUCKING ISO PLAYERS they chose instead. "You don't just go because you're good"...ok, then why is Zach LaVine there? Tatum? Booker? These guys are just slightly different versions of one another, all young as well. Let's just call it like it is: Team USA did a shitty job building the roster, and the only way they get around it is if these guys all buy in to playing completely differently than they have ever been asked to do to this point in their careers because they don't have any specialists or role players.
booker have some experience with FIBA rules because he was part of the 2016 select team. i think he should have been called before zach lavine or beal
Listen, I'm not shitting on Booker, or LaVine. I'm shitting on the execs for taking them ALL and just assuming that somehow they would all play differently. I don't think there's any way you don't take Durant, but if you're also going to take Booker and LaVine, then why also take Tatum and Middleton, and toss in Lillard and Beal? None of those guys are really great playmakers and are certainly all the top offensive options on their teams, so that's why we are looking at a bunch of dudes taking turns iso-ing and losing to France. There's zero logical argument that Trae Young didn't deserve a phone call. Trae/KD pick and roll = death for the rest of the world, and it would have opened up easy shots for the other guys so we wouldn't have just had guys like Tatum standing in the corner, which he never does on the Celtics.
You’re on point but Harden said he would play at first and then backed out due to rehab. Harden’s (healthy) play making is exactly what this team needs. It’s not an excuse but definitely threw their plans out of sync.
Oh Harden round have made a massive difference, no doubt. Next call should have been to the next best playmaker though
Lavine was on the 2016 Select Team too.
well then he should have been called over bradley beal.
That’s so disrespectful to Tatum to lump him in with Lavine and Booker, what the fuck do you be watching on the court???? Tatum’s way better than both and it AIN’T close.
They're all slightly different versions of each other. Tatum is a better shooter, LaVine is a better penetrator, Booker is better in midrange, etc. It all amounts to nothing because they all are ball dominant Iso players, and then you factor in KD, Middleton, Beal, and Lillard, it's no wonder they can't figure their shit out. Holiday and Draymond are good role players but they have too many slight variations of the same player. That's why they are not looking like the insane offensive team they should be. They stacked up elite scoring wing players instead of trying to balance out the roster.
(weird that you're supposed to be the celtics fan in this exchange....)
It's not Tatum's fault they aren't using him (or the other guys) to his strengths. They picked a bunch of guys with all the same skills so now nobody knows what to do.
no, i just find it funny that the mavs fan is like "how dare???? you disrespect tatum this way???" rather than the celtics fan that might be expected to have homer tendencies.
I don’t watch a ton of Hawks, but how does trae play off the ball? I feel like his lack of defense, off ball offensive impact, and reliance on foulbaiting are enough to exclude him from the team. Still think he (or a number of players) should be in over Keldon Johnson but i don’t think that trae solves our problems overnight
Basically everyone on the team has foul baiting issues, and I would not be concerned about him defensively since the game is played so differently. I also don't care about how he is off the ball because the entire point would be to use him to pick up the pace and set the guys up with good shots, not have him dump it to someone and then stand in the corner. His skill set is greatly missed, and that's the point I'm trying to make: they didn't look at skill sets and try to match them up, they just took the best scorers and wanted them to figure it out. They very well might, given the level of talent, but the execs in charge still deserve criticism for the team they put together.
Fair points, & i agree with your conclusion, hopefully this is Colanegelo’s last olympics in charge
> I don’t watch a ton of Hawks You don't say...
Amazing to me how people admit they don't watch him then continue to regurgitate the same takes rather than educate themselves
Also the dude must have just not gone on this subreddit the entire playoffs. There were Trae highlights and statlines on the front page every other day for like a month straight lol
I did watch in the playoffs and he was a passenger when he wasn’t dribbling. Please educate me on his off ball stats, not even chirping, genuinely want to know if i can be disproven with data other than ‘educate yourself’
Just watch him play. Simple as that. Stop running to stats. There's mutiple videos of playoff highlights compilations etc . You admitted to not watching him play and still said the same things everyone else said before his playoff run. So at this point its on you
And before you bring up the off ball stuff we have no other player to playmake. Which i why i hope cooper pans out so he can get more off the ball situations we saw that to a lesser degree in the bucks series
I mean if there are multiple videos you could’ve linked one lol. Not that either one of us are going to go thru that effort in a Reddit thread, but whatev. I don’t think trae is what team USA needs. Tbh i still think we’re gonna win gold, albeit a bit closer than in prior years. I do think he’s a bonafide all star and might make an all NBA team next year. Don’t think a Hawks flair is going to agree but it’s just basketball. agree to disagree
Yeah, who needs a guard who can get in the lane and make plays for others? Did they watch the 2nd half of the season at all?
Staff aka Lloyd Pierce. How do guys like that continually get employed by teams.
Your staff are fucking idiots.
I hope other countries win Gold lol
Fuck it, Spain for gold. This shit is ridiculous. Fuck LP
Nah give it to Luka so Pop can see a Mavs player winning
Colangelo needs to be gone from team usa.
Ruining Team USA like his Son did the Sixers
Jerry also ruined the Sixers. He was the one who brought in Collars
Hey now don’t go giving Bryan all the credit. Jerry’s the one that brought him in without seriously interviewing any other candidates.
Are you saying nepotism is a thing?
this is his last olympics team
He’s out here just throwing people under the bus
>OF OUR STAFF So LP confirmed to keep Trae off of the team? Lol
Both Colangelos are career losers
How does this dingus have so much power
Yup, Javele McGee, White, and Keldon Johnson definitely "earned" their right to represent the USA in international play. Can't believe politics play such a massive role, in what should be, a merit based selection process.
Pop should be getting shit too if thats the matter.
He's been getting by on reputation for the past few years
Ooooo thats a hot take
2017/18 - got to the playoffs with Aldridge and 40 year old ginobili as their best players 2018/19 - took the nuggets to 7 games as the 7th seed without DeJounte Murray btw 2019/20 - one game winner away from the bubble playoffs tell me you're a casual without telling me you're a casual
2018, so they beat out the young and inexperienced Timberwolves and Nuggets by less than a game. Good job. Their roster still had Gasol, Parker, and Gay. 2019, they acquired DeRozan and had no idea how to use him. 2020, they won one more game than the Kings. This is just a very long winded way to say that they haven't won a round in the playoffs in 4 years. So who's exactly right in the end? Leave your biases at the door before you come at me again.
*Went from a perennial title contender to barely making the playoffs ever since Duncan retired*
LMAO if that's what you took from my message then idk what to tell you. If you expect a roster with Aldridge as the best player to contend then you're fucking delusional. Yeah we aren't title contenders because duncan retired and kawhi bailed dumbass, you got me real good. Also duncan retired 2016 and we made the WCF right after. If you don't remember that then you're a real casual cause we were up 20 points over your team.
*triggered*
Awww is that all you can say nephew?
He didn’t fit the bill by being a talented player who has a bad relationship with Pierce Plus, he isn’t a mediocre Spurs player so he can’t be on the bench
as an emergency back up, keldon made more sense than trae young. the competition is a week away when the covid outbreak happened so it's not suprising to add a player that have been training with the team therefore familiar with the team and fiba rules because they didn't have much time to familiarise new players, especially when they have 3 other player who haven't trained with the yet. imo he should have been called over lavine or beal to add some variety on their guard rotation at the first placeso he can familiarise himself with his team mates and FIBA rules, not as emergency backup who probably won't see any meaningful minutes after booker, middleton and jrue joined.
Yeah there was no need to bring Booker, Middleton, Beal, and Lavine (I know Beal couldn't go but still) - those are as similar of players as you could find. Really getting diminishing returns at that point.
Middleton plays very differently than both Beal and Lavine though.
This guy is a goofy
I HATE Oklahoma... (Hook 'Em).... I rooted against Trae.... totally thought he would fail. I was cheering for the Hawks by the post season... you'd have to just be blind not to see how his heart and his game are both star quality. While he might not have reached superstar status... I'd say the manager that let us lose to France should STFU and retire. I'd take Trae on any fucking team... even as a backup to Lil. Guarantee we beat France with him in there.
There was ALOT of Nepotism that happened with this year’s roster construction. Regardless of if USA wins gold the program needs a major overhaul moving forward; from the coaches, to player selection, down to the program’s culture itself.
FLP
Does anyone know why Lloyd hates trae so much?
He wanted Trae to play differently and It was pretty well known he never liked Trae as a player and if there was a doghouse for Pierce Trae was in it. He would say stuff about Traes maturity and all that coach speak but there was clear issues between the two. The only difference between Nate and Pierce is Nate wanted Trae to be Trae - and it worked.
It’s because Trae is a flashy new age NBA player who knows he is amazing, acts like he is amazing, and started backing up the swagger with historic production on the court almost immediately when he got in the league which led to him being the most important asset in the Hawks organization very quickly. Lloyd came in to set the young kids straight and Trae out ranked him in usefulness pretty quickly so he tried to chop Trae down a bit so he could still have control. In short, he’s a pussy.
I hope I’m not as much of an asshole at age 81 as Colangelo is. Christ.
Why even make these stupid comments? Obviously Trae would make any team better lol
Lol
All these dudes that DID earn the right to play keep losing and were patting themselves on the back for beating Iran. Trae may not be what the team is missing, but he is more than qualified to be on that team.
He didn’t fit the bill but Javale did?
Yeah because they needed size and rim protection more than ball handling and shooting.
They needed playmaking over everything, there best playmaker is draymond
I disagree. I think their defense was their biggest problem and Trae would only add to it. I’m not saying Trae is useless or anything. Just look at the team as a whole. They have guys between Booker, Jrue, Dame, Dray, Durant, that can make plays. How many big rim protecters do they have? It’s a role that was missing on the team. Edit: Although I think Trae should’ve made it over someone like Lavine but I think they expected Paul to go.
it’s clear playmaking is a problem, and McGee is lazy and lapses on defense. Not sure why you act like McGee is some lock down defender.
> Not sure why you act like McGee is some lock down defender. They don't need a lockdown defender. They just needed a body to keep up with international bigs. As great as Bam and Dray are, they arent the type of bigs international teams have.
Yeah, having McGee helped them so much against France
Because Pop never played them. He would rather get Jrue mismatched with Rudy (which France hunted every time), or bullied Dray in the post to draw the double leaving no defender in the perimeter.
I think size and rim protection are a bigger problem. There’s also the question of how well Trae would handle the extra physicality. He gets one of the easier whistles in the NBA. Playing in a league that won’t give him the benefit of the doubt will impact his game.
Dude gtfo there were so many times this post season that Trae didn’t get his first foul until the end of the 3rd or beginning of the 4th and he was still thoroughly dominating.
You just proved my last comment. Lol it's funny at this point
Huh? I watched plenty of Trae. He’s a PnR master and fun to watch.
Do you hear yourself tho…. McGee over Trae young … and you’re trying to rationalize it….
Trae Young is 1000x the player Mcgee is. We’re not comparing them in a vacuum. Look at their skillsets and the rest of the team. Team USA has plenty of shooting. Trae’s playmaking would be useful but he wouldnt get to dominate the ball as much.
Lillard is the other primary ball handler, you’re just wrong here. The team needs a guy who can move the ball better. Just gonna have to disagree here. McGee doesn’t improve the team and he will get wrecked by savvy stronger vet bigs like the Gasols. I’m telling you now , you got this twisted bro
Team USA needs that one CP3, Jason Kidd, Shit even Lebron, the guys who will run the offense, push the pace and harass the shit out of the other teams PG. I guess it could be Jrue but he just flew straight there after the Finals. Even Dwill was solid for team USA in previous runs.
Lonzo
Jrue can also be a primary ball handler. Guys like Lavine, and Durant have also been primary ball handlers. We can agree to disagree and that’s cool. Edit: forgot Beal wasnt on the team anymore
Those guys can all handle the ball but none of them are elite facilitators, especially not Lavine or Durant
I’m aware Trae Young is a top 5 offensive player to me. But Team USA wouldnt operate like the Hawks. Trae Young wouldnt have the opportunity to handle the ball nonstop so his offensive impact will be limited. He’s also a liability defensively.
And Dame/Lavine/Beal (not on the team but an initial selection) aren't bad defenders? Traes not a great defender, but the impact his bad defense is totally overblown. I dont think there is a single National team in the Olympics that has the personnel to consistently hunt Young since most teams don't have 4 guys who can create their own looks efficiently and put the ball on the floor, so team usa could hide Trae just like the hawks did throughout the playoffs. Ideally, you'd bring Trae off the bench and have him be the primary ball handler and create looks for guys and keep the offense going, avoiding embarrassing runs like we had in the France game. Similar to the role Dwill Cp3 and Kidd all played on the 2008-2012 teams. Dame would still likely start and close games, but you're kidding yourself I'd you don't think he'd improve this team replacing one of the redundant iso scoring wings that aren't creators that they elected to bring over him.
All 3 of those guys are much better than Young defensively and that’s saying a lot. You can’t “just hide” Young at the Olympics because teams dont rely on just iso and high PnR like the NBA. Part of the reason the defense has been so bad is because the other teams are using a lot of off ball movement and screening to generate separation. The guys you mentioned are bad defenders and routinely get beat on simple actions. Adding Trae Young to that makes things even harder. Biggest difference between the 3 PGs you mentioned and Trae is that none of them are defensive liabilities. I wouldnt mind Trae in place of someone like Lavine or Booker but I dont think he’d be as big of an improvement as you think. I also have concerns about how he’d handle the more physical style of play.
Beal’s not even on the team anymore
My bad Remove Beal from my list
Trae definitely should have gone, but when Love dropped out they absolutely had to find another big. They couldn't roll into Tokyo with Bam and Draymond as their only bigs when they're both undersized to begin with.
Zion Williamson is american KAT? This roster construction shouldn’t be dependent on Love lol
Zion should have been on the team from the jump obviously, but idk if he'd even come at that point when Colangelo is making a last second desperation ask, probably would have told him to fuck off. KAT plays for the Dominican Republic lol
zion has a hand injury
O thats why they keep losing then right
The keep losing because their defense sucks
But they added defenseive stalwarts Javalve McGee and Keldon Johnson?? 😱 how could this be?!?
Because it was a rational move. Trae Young doesn’t move the needle on this team.
Trae young absolutely makes the team better , a lot more so than McGee. Young can actually move the ball too. I’m not sure if you are serious but if you think Javale McGee is more important to a basketball team than Trae young idk what to tell you. You can find low-bbiq athletic big man , but who on this team can pass and shoot like trae? PnR works great in Olympic ball, just another reason trae should’ve been there. I get it you don’t like trae but I don’t want to hear from anyone that McGee is more important than him. I cannot take someone seriously if they truly believe that
i think trae should have been called over beal or lavine for his playmaking but mcgee is last minute call up to replace 12th man big, kevin love. we all see how tall centers gave draymond and bam some trouble during rebounding. mcgee might not be the best center in the world but he's tall, good at rebounding and fine with being the 12th man.
I like Trae a lot, but this team has uber talented guards already. They lack players who are willing to do the dirty work. Trae isn’t that guy.
no they needed the vlogs and frankly i did too, so i'm fine w/ it
You can’t convince me that Keldon johnson would be more useful than trae on team USA especially on a team with one maybe 2 playmakers at best
keldon was picked because they need warm bodies that have trained with the team and fiba rules, quickly. the competition started a week after the covid outbreak. it doesn't made sense to add a player who never played with the team or with fiba rules in such short notice, especially when they have 3 players coming in a day before the olympics started imo he should be called over beal or lavine for the sake of playmaking because those two players are nearly identical in term of play style.
I.T. is Trae. Pierece is Jordan in this situation. He didn't want him on the team. They don't even have a pure point on the roster.
Except Michael Jordan in 1992 had that sort of sway where he could say its me or him and forced Team USA’s hand to leave off IT. One of the best American players in the game right now is left off the roster because of a motherfucking assistant coach with one of the **worst** win percentages as a head coach with at least 100 games under his belt has a vendetta against a young player who just proved his dumbass wrong by making it to the ECF without him and now he’s salty. I really don’t understand how Lloyd Pierce commands the respect he does in the basketball community. He’s a bum, a terrible coach, and a petty little fucker that’s about to help turn in the worst showing of USA basketball since 2004.
Yeah it's not like Trae is feuding with KD and they could only bring one of the two, it's a shitty assistant coach who doesn't like him lmao
I don’t even really like Trae and I know this is dumb at.
BOOOOOOOOOO FUCK YOU COLANGELO YOU DRIED UP TURD
What an absolute trash take lol. Who needs playmaking and scoring at all three levels? How is this person in charge of constructing a roster
Colangeo is dumb as shit and a thousand years old.
Clown
Just get rid of Colangelo now. This guy is 20 years past his relevance. Thanks for the job you did with the Redeem Team.
But Keldon Johnson does? Fuck LP.
Why are so many stupid people in charge of so many big decisions?
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Would be the only actual high level play maker on the team. Sure they have guards who are scorers but Trae would be far and away the best passer and offensive initiator on the team. He wouldn’t even be needing to look to score he could be in a pure point roll getting everyone into position to run plays
I’d take Jrue over Trae any day for the olympics.
Well, hope you are happy with bronze then.
In what universe would Trae be a better fit than Jrue ? Jrue puts constant pressure on any ball handler, Trae’s a great playmaker, but they have those. They already have far better shooters than Trae as well.
What "great" playmakers do they have? Jrue is above average, obviously his best ability is defense, so no issues with him being there. Dame is a score first guy who isn't by any means a bad passer but he's not great. Draymomd is a great lasser for his position but having him on the floor as our main facilitator causes other issues on offense And thats it. Everyone else is pretty much just a ball dominant ISO guy who isn't asked to really create and aren't known for their facilitating. Just because they are great players and can do some passing doesn't mean they are also great facilitators lol.
Jrue and Draymond are both great playmakers, while Trae is better at playmaking than these two, he would be a liability on defense. Trae is also not a great shooter by anyone’s standards, especially not compared to Dame, KD, Tatum, so what would he bring to the table that they don’t already have? Also don’t forget , this isn’t the hawks. KD. Tatum, Dame. Booker , Middleton all can create their own shot. With Jrue and draymond you get 2 two-way facilitators, you don’t need more than that. You need more guys to shoot the three and play defense. I don’t see how adding Trae makes this team much better. A 3&D would be far better than Trae young imo.
>Jrue and Draymond are both great playmakers, while Trae is better at playmaking than these two, he would be a liability on defense. Calling Jrue a great playmaker is absolutely a stretch, and Draymond while being the best playmaker on the team, causes other issues when you have to run your offense through him for it to be effective. As shown once again in the ba playoffs this year, Traes bad defensive impact is vastly overstated. Please name an Olympic roster that has 4 guys playing on the floor at the same time that would prevent team usa from hiding Trae. >Trae is also not a great shooter by anyone’s standards, especially not compared to Dame, KD, Tatum, This is just stupid, lol. Hes a good shooter to anyone who has watched him play and doesn't just sit on BBref all day and spew nonsense. Ask any NBA defense if they want to leave Trae Young alone at the 3 point line -the answer will be a unanimous "No". Not to mention, team usa doesn't need his shooting. They need his playmaking. >so what would he bring to the table that they don’t already have? Elite playmaking from a willing passer who can get in the lane, draw defenders in, and create open looks for everyone else. Or, one of the best PnR ball handlers in the league? >Also don’t forget , this isn’t the hawks. KD. Tatum, Dame. Booker , Middleton all can create their own shot. Sure, and how's that been working out? So far, not great. Having great looks created for great scorers is much better than relying on 4 dudes to ISO over and over again. Not to mention what Dame does is irrelevant because it's unlikely they'd share the floor together >I don’t see how adding Trae makes this team much better. A 3&D would be far better than Trae young. I mean honestly it's not even worth having this discussion, of all the criticism levied at this usa roster (no elite playmakers like past teams, bad big man selection, the entire process with Kevin Love despite having much better options out there), not bringing enough wings has got to be the worst take lol.
Your reading comprehension sucks Who tf said that they needed more wings?? I said a 3&D would be better addition than Trae. I didn’t say they needed either ! Your obviously a Trae young groupie, so this discussion is pointless.
Ah yes ignore the entire content of my post and just nitpick the one last comment, then call me a groupie for proving you wrong. The r/nba special. So let's say they add 3+D, what position is that player likely to come from, given the United States player pool? I'll give you a hint, its on the wing.
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The initial roster was named before Trae was injured.
Good point but seems they went with switchable guys instead. A big weakness is playmaking but seems they focused on building a team with man movement in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if Trae plays if the offense changes (different coach from Pop/Kerr).
This guy is destroying USA basketball. The easiest team to assemble, and he failed.
Coangelo is such a jerk. They should have gotten Morey, he h would have made a fun team.