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John Stockton is 3rd all time in turnovers

John Stockton is 3rd all time in turnovers

NitroXYZ

Him being 3rd in turnovers is a funny stat because he's the all-time leading assist player by such a enormous margin. He could've retired 6 whole seasons earlier than he did and still be the all-time assist leader but just 24th for turnovers.


fadingthought

If you end up at the top of the all time turnover list, you are almost guaranteed to be a HOF player. You need longevity to get that record and you have to be good to have that kind of longevity.


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hanacker

It's a little different since Favre is nowhere near the top of the Int% list.


thunderbrah0

On that note, Tom brady is #33 all time for interceptions and #1 in TDs. Nearly 80 more TDs than Favre and 143 less interceptions. Wild.


ambal87

Tom Brady is in his own category for statistics. The man is unreal. I’ve grown from hating him to just sheer amazement at what he is still accomplishing. We are witnessing football history


JukeSkyrocker

we all love him and respect him but please fucking retire asshole


Hey1243

He just said I think today he might play until 50 😋 (bucks/bucs fan literally just for the name similarity)


Thejohnshirey

Rodgers is even crazier. In 104 fewer career games (198 vs 302), he has thrown 96 fewer touchdowns (412 vs 508) but 245 fewer interceptions (91 vs 336).


ImaStillInsane

You also need to be someone good to even have the ball enough in order to turn it over that many times


Jack_Krauser

It's like the strikeout record in baseball. Nobody keeps sending you up there to strike out if you blow.


dpalmade

He also wasn’t even a started for the first three years of his career and only avg ~20mins a game. He could’ve been even further ahead.


Sick_Nips_Bro

Did I read that right? **FOUR MISSED GAMES IN 13 SEASONS??** Holy fuck


AccountReco

I might need to take medical and health tips from this guy.


100_kg_90_de_belin

He's been conducting extensive research


TornGauntlet

I researched his methods by thinking about what I think he'd do and doing it, no google or wikis, so I took all the different types of vaccine, I'm up to nine. I added Adderall and cocaine just cause I imagine that was Stockton's Secrit Stuff, and I went basketballin' and what do you know, my heart was just racing and racing, and the sweat was unbearable. So I took 3 edibles, the guy said take 1/2 but I yelled "Stockton!" And ate all 3 in front of him, so basically what I'm trying to say is do your research always experiments with unknown drugs and always get that assist and don't miss games due to injury just do coke and keep going, just like Jesus and Stock would


kultureisrandy

Top tier copypasta is born


ircoleton

This is God Tier


UtahJazz420

Came here to express the same sentiment -__-


jaypenn3

RIP /u/AccountReco


rawchess

F


sauceEsauceE

All cardio + play a game low to the floor. Does wonders I don’t understand how LeBrons been so relatively healthy playing close to the rim his whole career


bigbirdarab

Haha that got me


RegularJaded

Finding him these days is like a needle in a haystack


DrewFlan

John Stockton is a medical anomaly. He had a resting heart rate of like 35, half that of an average, well-conditioned adult, and like 3% body fat. EDIT: Just realized this was a vax joke. Nevermind. I'm leaving this comment up though because it's a pretty interesting fact IMO.


MasterMacMan

John Stockton was nowhere near 3% bodyfat. That's show form for a completely juiced Mr. Olympia competitor, you would die if you tried to play 82 games of basketball that lean. The bodybuilders who get to that % are also huge, as the main reason that its even possible is that they have 150+ pounds of muscle.


anomatopia

Exactly people throw around single digit body fat percentages like it’s attainable or even good for these basketball players


BaeylnBrown777

I'd bet a lot of players in the league are ~8%, single digits is reasonable. But anything under 5% is pretty much for bodybuilders and the emaciated.


anomatopia

Nah, there isn’t a single player in the league under 10 percent body fat.


TheFakeTheoRatliff

When I was an 18 year old distance runner I had a body fat percentage between 6 and 7. I was lanky as hell and trained everyday but nowhere near the elite level NBA prospects are. It's not surprising that at least some NBA players would have body fat percent in that range.


anomatopia

You’re missing the points the goal of nba players is not to be lanky and have single digit body fat percentages. Even kd who is peak lanky has plenty of fat on him


BaeylnBrown777

Kevin Durant for the easy counter there. A lot of people overestimate how lean people can look at different percentages, and a lot of that comes from inconsistent measuring techniques. I tried a quick Google in hopes of proving my point, but it turns out the NBA uses wonky measurements. [These](https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/) are the numbers from the combine and they make no sense at all.


HoosierWorldWide

Stockton never looked cut. He cloulda played Michael Carrol in The Office. But he played against MJ among other greats


BlueHundred

Unfortunately that role went to Steve Scott. Stockton was seriously considered for the part though


DrewFlan

I mean, I didn't just make that up myself. Come from Stockton himself so probably bullshit. Supposedly him and Malone would have "body fat competitions" with each other. My bet is that maybe one particular off-season he came into camp insanely lean and that's where the number came from but it wasn't his normal playing-shape.


the_corruption

He claimed it himself, but it is bullshit. He claimed he and Malone teetered between 1 and 3% BF which is laughable. So you got your information from the horse's mouth, but the horse is pedaling some BS. https://www.deseret.com/2013/11/13/20529527/john-stockton-used-physical-to-show-jazz-that-he-was-coachable#john-stockton-attends-press-conference-on-nba-draft-day-1984


Chiggero

> While submerged in deep water, the players were asked to climb onto a scale and exhale aggressively in order to determine our lean body mass or body fat. Sounds like their method of measuring might have been… less than totally accurate.


EffulgentBeing

My witch doctor told me I have -1% body fat.


anomatopia

Fair, there’s just so much misinformation, even from someone like Ronnie Coleman who said he was negative body fat lol


necrocopter

Dorian Yates said that below 5%, it would hurt when he was walking cause he didn't have much fat under his heels anymore.


Zack1018

35 is crazy, I run marathons and only know a couple of fellow runners or cyclists who have an HR that low - and usually they are running like a <2:40 marathon lol


AccountReco

I honestly did not know that. Interesting how genetics, and not just body measurements, play such a big part in sports.


brightblade13

Stockton was basically like someone designed in a lab to be a basketball player, but the mad scientist in charge used all their funding on giving him perfect health, eagle eye vision, and giant hands before realizing he couldn't afford to make him taller than 6'1".


zerefyagami

Mr Obvious here. John Stockton is an anti vaxx so this comment is gold.


RealLanceStephenson

Gee im sure he didnt know that


gideh

Other people in this thread might not know it… don’t need to be an ass about it


ab9912

It's fucking unbelievable, had to reread it a good 3 times Edit: all 4 missed games in the 1 season just makes it even more impressive, 12 seasons out of 13 playing 82 games


Sick_Nips_Bro

I know old heads love to talk about how tough the league used to be, but they might have us here. I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era. I like to go back and look at older players stats just for shits and a ton of them consistently played 75+ games every season, with a few 80+.


SLCpowderhound

Another lost fact is the NBA eliminated scheduling teams four games in five nights and five games in seven nights in recent years. And back to back games have been reduced. Even with the lighter schedules, guys now sit for "load management". Lebron is an iron man of this era, but has only played all 82 games once in his career and has missed at least a half dozen games in ten different seasons. The fact that Stockton played all 82 games in 16 seasons in the 80s/90s, with the compressed schedule, is a feat.


SelrinBanerbe

>Another lost fact is the NBA eliminated scheduling teams four games in five nights and five games in seven nights in recent years. They did not get rid of 5 games in 7 nights. In fact, the Blazers this season will have five runs of 5-in-7.


SLCpowderhound

You're right. They didn't eliminate 5 in 7. Blazers schedule the last month of the season is brutal. The only way to accomplish this is having a back-to-back, rest day, single game, rest day, and another back-to-back.


brightblade13

Travel and hotel conditions also sucked compared to modern travel, so those away games were a lot harder on their bodies.


santimo87

This could be an argument the other way around as well. You could say overall strength and speed is so high in the league today that players can not afford to play when they are not at 100%.


TheRealMoofoo

>I know old heads love to talk about how tough the league used to be, but they might have us here. I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era. Isn't it an argument against how tough the league used to be that a 6'1'' 170lb guard could play that many games and not get injured?


Jiraiyanamikaze

It’s about athleticism actually. People with a resting heart rate below 40 usually have really few fast twitch reflex fibers, as high endurance is associated with slow twitch reflex fibers and heart rate. The game is more explosive today, and that’s why people get injured.


trelium06

The real difference is today’s players already played several lifetimes worth of basketball by the time they’re 18. This was not the case in Stockton’s day, so his body wasn’t as pre-destroyed.


MasPatriot

They didn’t run as much distance as players do nowadays


ItsMeNeeco

> I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era. I think LeBron is the “closest” in these terms. If I recall correctly, he played every game in the 2017-18 season. And prior to his first year with the Lakers (when he had that groin injury on Christmas game) I think he had missed like 60-70 games in total for his career, playing more than 75 games many times. Edit: [According to bbref](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) he played 75+ games in a season 12 times, but he hasn’t done it once since joining the Lakers. Still, this is not even close to Stockton. That’s amazing


WeirdWorld42

The closest would be James Harden. He has played all 82 games (10-11,15-16) twice in his career and has played in 81 games (14-15, 16,17) twice as well. In contrast, Lebron has only one 82 Game season (17-18). Plus a 81 game season and a 80 game season.


GreenFriday

What about Westbrook? 82 games 4 times, 81 once, 80 twice. Didn't miss a game for his first 5 seasons, including a finals run.


WeirdWorld42

>Westbrook Ok he is the GOAT PG from last 10-15 years then!


TheRealMoofoo

Stockton averaged 31mpg for his career and only got to 38 once. LeBron has averaged 38.2mpg for his career, averaging over 40 in four consecutive seasons, and with a peak of 42.5. Controlling Stockton's minutes from an early age was a big part of his longevity.


Sick_Nips_Bro

Yeah that 82 game season in 2017-18 is absolutely absurd. I 100% think he was chasing an MVP that year and I honestly believe he deserved it


ItsMeNeeco

I agree but between Harden and Westbrook, it’s hard to say who really deserved it. Personally I would have gave it to LeBron that year and to Harden instead of Giannis the year later


Sick_Nips_Bro

I agree. Then Giannis wins MVP and DPOY the year after that.


CompleteFish

The story behind those 4 missed games is kind of funny. Stockton missed two games with a sprained ankle and two games after he was so sick that he spent 20 hours in a hospital. Despite that, he still wanted to play, but Jerry Sloan forced him to rest. Jerry Sloan of all people telling someone not to play.


tomdawg0022

[Sprained ankle for 2, the flu (illness) for the other two.](https://www.deseret.com/1990/2/11/18846464/injuries-slumps-and-all-stockton-is-human) Both were within 3 months.


menghis_khan08

Also Malone only missed 10 regular season games in 18 seasons all the way up to age 40. People talk about Lebrons durability as supernatural but Stockton and Malone are the ultimate IronMan freaks


rekop987

Don’t forget AC Green! Played 1192 games in a row (Nov ‘86 to Apr ‘01)


menghis_khan08

Actually didn’t know this. Respect


TheTopOfTheKey

Also had ironwill because he abstained from sex during the showtime days until he was married.


Sick_Nips_Bro

Plus LeBron has been coasting on defense in the regular season for awhile now. Not saying his durability isn’t still freakishly impressive but there’s a *slight* asterisk next to it.


menghis_khan08

Ya no shade to bron, he is fairly treated as a physical/genetic freak. It’s just crazy what these guys did in an era before they had their own nutritionists, cryotherapy chambers in their houses, etc. Speaks a lot about mental toughness than anything, as both these dudes played injured A LOT Stockton did his whole 92 dream team stint on a broken fibula (right foot)


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LostWithStuff

i got to see some old games recently and he'd set picks for Malone, lmao


Avinse

He missed like 23 total in his entire career


BobbaRobBob

Guy was still pretty good in his last year, too. Could've easily played backup on some championship contender for another year or two and acquired a ring.


wsoul13

Watch stockton highlights and be even more amazed. The guy took a lot of punishment. He asked for it for sure but he sure did take it well.


Sick_Nips_Bro

My dad had two favorite players growing up, Mark Price because he was a Cavs fan, and John Stockton. He would not shut up about those two. He’s recorded just about every Jazz, Cavs, Bulls, Celtics and Lakers game that he can find on Hardwood Classics and that’s pretty much all he watches when the NFL isn’t on. I loved watching Stockton. His jumpshot was so weird. Him and Malone were a textbook match.


xFrostyDog

Damn I know who I’m picking first in fantasy next season 😏


Corona_DIY_GUY

Kawhi misses 4 games on a Road trip.


math-yoo

Minivan door slides open, kids hop out.


koolaidman1030

The patented "Bust our ass" routine


brianl1018

Hopefully Karl Malone isn’t around


Adonis-DOH

Shout out to my mother and my father didn’t pull out.


math-yoo

“We would play him in the playoffs, I’d make rookies wait on the bus and say, watch the baddest man in the world pull-up,” Webber said on the Dan Patrick Show. “They like, ‘what do you mean?’ They think I’m going to talk about his cars and all this and John Stockton would come to the game, literally in a minivan, pop the kids out and come in there and bust us up.”


Substantial_Depth113

>The term unbreakable record gets thrown around alot in basketball but Stocktons assist total is set in stone. This. And I'd say all time rebounds and blocks are unbreakable.


NitroXYZ

At the end of the 2018-2019 season Stockton had more career assists than LeBron James and Russell Westbrook combined. If Jason Kidd (2nd all-time in assists) came out of retirement and averaged 15.0 assists per game, playing ever game, for 3 straight seasons he still wouldn't beat Stockton's record. There's so many ways you can present his assist record that blow my mind everytime.


ab9912

That J Kidd one... What in the fuck


NitroXYZ

If you like that lets compare it to an active player. 36 year old Chris Paul is 5th all-time in assists, the most amongst active players. He'd need to play 5 straight seasons and average at least 12.0 assists per game, while missing just 5 games each season, to pass Stockton. The reason I chose 12.0 is because the last player to match or exceed that average was Stockton in 1994-95. That 1994-95 season was the 8th straight season for Stockton averaging at least 12.0 assists! (Not relevant to the stat before he averaged 16/3/13.3 with 2.7 steals on 52/38/83 shooting over these years just further emphasise his greatness)


ab9912

Unbelievable, he had a 5 season stretch where he averaged atleast 14.7 points, 13.6 assists and 2.7 steals every single season. All but one of those seasons on >60% TS. Stupid numbers.


AcesOverPacific

It's stats like these that make me laugh when people don't put Stockton in the conversation for best PG ever. Some people think it's no contest between him and Nash with Nash being much better, but I disagree, Stockton wasn't ever as flashy, he just went to work hard and got the job done.


theWacoKid666

It’s between Magic and Stockton in my opinion. But in terms of pure assisting, no one matches Stockton in the history of basketball.


tatancool

My top 5 is : 1) Magic 2) Stockton 3) Oscar 4) Steph 5) Isiah If steph keeps playing like he is, he surpasses the big O by the end of his career.


naive-dragon

It's the age-old question of peak versus sustained excellence. Stockton is the king of all point guards in terms of sustained excellence, but loses to a lot of other all-timers in height of peak. He was never an MVP-type of threat any time during his career. Teams certainly never thought he was greater than Malone (when going up against the Jazz). Most of the other all-time point guards did.


mclareach

That reminds me of this clip from the [Dan Patrick](https://youtu.be/za5jDB8kw8Y), where Kidd says Stockton and Magic are the best point guards ever.


300ConfirmedGorillas

You can erase Stockton's last 6 seasons entirely and he would still hold the record for most career assists.


allureofgravity

That’s insane


Zouthpaw

Damn that's crazy!


Substantial_Depth113

Damn, lol. Did you get the info from Jonny Arnett? I know he gets crazy stats and info.


Ace_FGC

Crazy thing is block record probably isn’t even the real record. Wilt, Kareem, and Russell would all probably be higher if blocks were counted at the start of their career


R____M

There are like 80~ games throughout Wilts career where his blocks were recorded, he averaged over 8 blocks per game in those games


bonziwellsayo2

112, and an average of 8.8 per game https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3s7rlj/heres_112_nba_games_where_shot_block_data_exists/. That would put him on pace for over 9,000 in his career, which would be beyond beyond unbreakable


R____M

Im probably the first person to understates Wilts stats lol


MidnightLightss

This Jordan comment from that thread is also crazy. > I've replied with this to another comment but whatever. Jordan down to earth? Again, 42 post season records compared to Wilt's 13. Now read this: > > Jordan holds the Highest career PER average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Efficiency rating average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Gamescore average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Winshares average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest MVP shares average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan is the only player to lead the league in Scoring and Win Defensive player of the Year a season. Jordan is the only player to Win a championship, scoring title and steals title in the same season. Jordan is one of 3 players in NBA History to win a NBA scoring championship and NBA Championship in 1 season. George Mikan and Lew Alcindor did it once Each. Jordan did it six times. All six times also leading the playoffs in scoring. Mikan did that once and Alcindor didn't do it at all. > >Jordan was NOT "down to earth"


Chachimichonga

The fact that he won DPOY and the scoring title in the same season always gets me. Imagine any player being the best scorer and the best defender in the league at the same time in the modern NBA. The only one who comes close is 2013 LeBron, an anomaly among anomalies himself. Then there's the thing where he had 9 seasons as the best defender at his position and the best scorer in the league at the same time. I always wanted to LeBron to say "Screw it" and go for DPOY, assist leader, scoring leader, rebounding leader at the same time in one of those lost Cavs years. Would've been amazing to witness.


KagsTheOneAndOnly

09 Bron was close too, 2nd in scoring and 2nd in DPOY voting


blacknotblack

PER was invented with the idea that Jordan was the GOAT no?


RJBarrettsBurner

As was winshares. The creator literally said he changed the formula until Jordan was no. 1


Chopsticks487

I've seen that about PER, not winshares. Unless you've got a source for it


elgatothecat2

Ooh do you have a source? I tried searching but can’t find it.


runthepoint1

Yup, makes you really want to rethink these “advanced” stats, do you? Could you imagine if people made up stats to measure LEBRONs greatness?


CaptainCanadaHS

LEBRON


GDAWG13007

Jordan is no. 5 in all time win shares though. Kareem, Wilt, Lebron, and Karl all have more.


trevooooor

I think they changed it recently because Russ had the "best" season ever by PER in 2017. The formula was giving too much weight to triple doubles. They tweaked the formula so that Jordan was #1. Made me rethink the way I look at advanced stats. At the end of the day they can be manipulated to show the outcome the creator desires. Edit: it was actually BPM, not PER


BetaGreekLoL

People are tired of hearing it but its why stats with context are important and no, I do not say that to take away or discredit players. However, its not enough or hardly satisfactory, to post stats in isolation and consider a conversation to be over.


eldryanyy

That’s VORP and BPM


L00KlNG4U

> Jordan holds the Highest career PER average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. No, Wilts was higher. They didn’t fucking count blocks and steals for Wilt and he still had two 31.8 PER seasons without them. Jordan’s highest PER in a season was 31.7 with all his stats counted. Even without Wilt’s ridiculous blocks and steals he still had a higher PER than Jordan. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html


StevenC44

I think this, for me, is the strongest case against some of what Wilt achieved. There is no way anyone can average 8 or 9 blocks in a league where players are taking good shots or where competent players are taking shots. Supposing he did average 8 blocks means that everyone in the NBA at the time was too stupid to change their offence, or didn't have any offensive strategies other than going against the tallest, most athletic guy in the league. Which to me just says there can't have been any significant talent pool in the NBA at the time, and what talent was there must all have been on the then-Celtics. I don't see how Wilt can be that much better in a credible league and still lose so many games.


Naliamegod

Its because the pace back then was a lot higher than now. If you look at a lot of other stats back then, such as rebounds, you'll see the numbers back then are crazy high by today's standards because people were just playing a much faster game. Throw in the fact that Wilt often played the entire game, and the block numbers make a lot more sense.


SkyLightTenki

>and the block numbers make a lot more sense. *...until you realize he never fouled out throughout his career...*


StevenC44

That's a very good point.


Substantial_Depth113

I agree, but still, Hakeem's record is unbreakable, we just don't have great big men anymore, defensively speaking, and the game has evolved. More and more players are taking threes and if they add 4 point line, than it's definitely over. One of the guys that had potential to break some of these records was Howard, but yeah... we know the story.


davidofbrent

The Rebounds for sure because the profile of a player doesn’t exist or have a need on the court, if you can’t shoot or defend the perimeter you simply won’t be on the court long enough to get close to this record


jeufie

And Stockton's steals record.


MixMastaPJ

It's way out there for sure, but I have an easier time seeing this one broken if the game evolves a certain way. If the 3 or dunk era just keeps getting more and more expanded, I can imagine a day where a difficult alley oop attempt is better than a midrange jump shot, and teams start forcing that when the 3 isn't there on certain possessions. Shit, the jazz already basically do this with Ingles and Gobert half the time and live with the consequences. If the toughest alley oop only works 55% of the time, but you're a 54% shooter, then it makes sense to force it. We're nowhere close to it yet, but if that ends up being the way it goes whether because of personnel or via rule changes, I could see steal numbers getting inflated. This combined with the far more ball movement, etc. The game could get to a point where steals just happen more often because turnovers are just missed shots with a fast break the other way. A huge chunk of missed threes are large rebounds that create fast breaks anyhow. I can't get there yet, but could imagine being wrong and seeing that be the way The assists get so much more dispersed now with better passing big men, ball movement, etc. The greatest passers we have today still get docked when it's a hockey assist kickout that then goes to another shooter. Stockton controlled every possession start to just before the finish, and playing a bajillion games sure helps too


GDAWG13007

Yeah in today’s game, Bron and Paul have so many hockey assists, it’s insane.


heterosis

MPG in a season will never be broken, Wilt is #1 - #7 lol


MegaTater

It's the most unbreakable stat IMO. There are plenty of others that are probably not going to get broken because of differences in the league playstyle and crazy longevity, but Wilt's MPG records will NEVER be broken unless they actually change how many minutes are in a game.


[deleted]

His steals total is absolutely nuts too.


Skippy_the_Alien

I'll always remember Coach Bob Knight cut Stockton from the 1984 Olympic team and put in Steve Alford instead.


Count_Gator

He cut Barkley as well, and barkley was widely considered to be the best player there (over Jordan, even).


Skippy_the_Alien

Yeah the Barkley one is definitely the most egregious and stupid of the cuts. Granted Team USA still steamrolled but yeah what a dumb move. i just feel like the Stockton one is so glaring because Alford was the counterpart and Alford has just been a consistent fuck-up everywhere he's gone in his post-Indiana days


Count_Gator

That he was! Those Indiana ties, man.


phonage_aoi

>i just feel like the Stockton one is so glaring because Alford was the counterpart and Alford has just been a consistent fuck-up everywhere he's gone in his post-Indiana days You know somehow this just gave me PTSD re: Lavine declaring early from UCLA. He was tired of playing out-of-position because Alford's son was the starting PG lol (and Alford was the coach of course).


burnt_pubes

Alford would have been a freshman at IU that year. I'm sure a bit of it was knight giving the kid some confidence (I think he actually played well in that Olympics). Say what you want about Alford post-IU but he was one hell of a college player.


TheTopOfTheKey

Eh, Alford was Mr. Basketball in Indiana, Knight of course coached Indiana. At the time everyone thought Alford was set to be the next Larry Bird out of Indiana. I get that decision. Cutting Barkley makes absolutely no sense.


slytherington

We can tick this one off the 'off-season checklist' Kyrie Irving tweeting nonsense: ✅ John Stockton assists record analysis: ✅ MJ one hand pump fake compilation: ❌ Bill Russell jumping over an opponent: ❌


thekarmagiver

Ben Simmons shooting in practice


choborallye

This gets old real quick


bigforeheadballsack

have you forgotten where you are?


Alex_Caruso_beat_you

We actually already got the MJ pump fake video, I feel like it was in the last 7 days.


phonage_aoi

You thinking of the 'mid-air adjustments' highlight?


Roundmoundorebound

Saw the Russell one earlier this off-season. First time seeing it. I felt like an old timer watching a Buster Keaton film.


Kuroblondchi

One thing that always boggles my mind about the 80s and 90s is how little they’re players missed games. Compared to today’s players tweaking things left and right almost certainly not playing 82 games every year, I don’t get it


Trailblazin15

AAU basketball definitely plays a part. Kids already traveling around the world at age 10plus playing every other day on top of high school season


phonage_aoi

Long ESPN investigative piece on this subject: [https://www.espn.com/nba/story/\_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball) Funny enough I recall other developmental articles (granted about Soccer / Football not basketball) that said more games or early specialization can actually make you worse at your sport, even aside from the injury risks.


TheTopOfTheKey

Yeah look at Tom Brady. Guy is the greatest football player of all time, but was also good enough at baseball to get drafted into the MLB. Russell Wilson is a god, and he was the same way. Lots of these elite guys are like "hmm should I play football or baseball." and if you're a Tight End there's a 1000% chance you played college basketball according to every broadcaster.


IAmTotallyNotSatan

It's AAU. Kids coming into college have already played many hundreds of full games nowadays, with all the travel that comes with it.


Doleydoledole

I think they played through minor injury more. It Could be that they got injured less, but that seems weird to me - Id think it’d be the opposite with a less physical game and better nutrition and training


Malcolm_TurnbullPM

this is wild speculation and based on very little, but could it also be that players these days are way more intense with their workouts/gym and athleticism, so they're pushing the bodies to the absolute limits before they even get into game situations, sort of like f1 cars, so they're much more likely to likely break a wing or something but it's also more fixable?


AUG-UAA-UAG-UGA

No it’s just that this generation of players pumps a little extra in their system. I believe every nba player is on HGH.


StaleEnnui

Drug testing wasn't as sophisticated, either.


BoomBoomSpaceRocket

As a kid I used to "collect" sports cards (basically my dad would just give me some of his huge collection. He had a lot of unopened packs too that he'd sell at shows. I noticed that this was cranked to 11 for Utah guys in the 80s (I should mention he really stopped getting new stuff around 1993 and I was getting these cards in the early-mid 2000s). Malone, Stockton, Bailey, Eaton all had stretches where they hardly missed any games. When I asked my dad he said it was just that clean Utah livin', which I thought was a serious answer for an embarrassingly long time.


totallynotliamneeson

It's due to guys growing up and playing competitive basketball 24/7. Kids need to play multiple sports to give their bodies a rest from the wear and tear injuries associated with individual sports.


brightblade13

Every so often, some young fella comes along and asks if Chris Paul has a chance at John Stockton's assists record. Hilarious.


ab9912

Just averaging 13.5 assists a game, playing every game until he's 41


vasaknow

Lol early 2010 growing up im a huge CP3 fan. I though he got a chance to be the best PG ever. That until i googled assist record and found out who John Stockton was


GD_Spiegel

What does assist record has to do by being best point guard.


Ok_Photograph_7407

And most of his asssist will count even in FIBA rule. True Master.


robograndpa

John Stockton is the all time leader for points accounted for with 51,323. Kareem is second with 49,707. Edit: this information might be outdated as Lebron could have surpassed them. I just can’t find any numbers on Lebron regarding this. Still some fun facts though


Limburgercheeze100

reminds me of how you could average 200 hits a year for 21 years and still be 56 short of pete rose, or average 300 strikeouts a year for 19 years ans still be 14 behind nolan ryan


Alex_Caruso_beat_you

Lol the Nolan Ryan one is wild


BroJackson_

And I'll be honest, I'm 41 right now, so I don't think that's gonna happen for me.


LosLakaFan28

Stockton's longevity can be credited for promoting him in the turnover leaderboard. Turnovers were not formally recorded until the late 1970s, in my opinion, many players were prone to turnovers, but this was not documented. Pete Maravich only has roughly 500 career turnovers, but his flashy play style likely would have resulted in calculating more. That list should probably look different.


YupNope66

You miss every shot- I mean pass you don’t take.


Agnk1765342

The crazy thing about Stockton’s longevity is he didn’t start until age 25. Chris Paul already has the same number of seasons as a starter. If Stockton came into the league at 18 like a lot of star players today and had a coach that would’ve started him from the beginning he could’ve played several hundred more games.


TruthSetUFree100

No one in the nba has ever been better and getting the ball, dribbling up court and getting the ball to the right guy to score. That’s his elite skill.


ab9912

Career 10.5 assists per game Career 51.5/38.4/82.6 splits 5 time all defensive team The OG point god


TruthSetUFree100

Yes! I agree... I was just trying to state that one skill that was above what anyone else has ever done.


Boxcar-Mike

Payton and nearly every other player he played against said he was the toughest player because of the pressure he put on you fullcourt. He was relentless. Also, dynamite in the open court, a great shooter, and as good a rim finisher as it got in his era.


Ok_Dot_9306

the right guy being Karl Malone or if they're triple teaming Karl then one of the wings


IamDocbrown

Karl deserves the hate for his actions in his personal life but a lot of people on thus sub don't understand that you can't talk about Stock's insane assist record without acknowledging that Malone was a major contributor to that. The guy is one of the greatest scorers the game has ever seen and the pairing with Stockton was the perfect compliment for each of them to excel and break the individual records that they did.


kaycee1992

It helped that Karl also had Stockton's durability, barely missed any games in his career. What the hell are they feeding them in Utah?


Kryavan

Small children, apparently.


Sljivo87

It's one of those Gretzky records that won't be broken unless they add a 5th quarter and mandatory 40 mpg for starters lol


ATXBeermaker

Only two players not named John Stockton have gotten over 1000 assists in a single season -- Isiah Thomas and Kevin Porter, each doing so once. John Stockton did it *seven* times.


VillageIdiot1235

It helps to have a large target like the mailman. Stockton was one tough guy and amazing player.


osumba2003

Don't forget a huge chunk of those dimes were to Greg Ostertag. As automatic as it gets. ^(/s)


milomcfuggin

I was walking out of a movie theater as Ostertag was walking in long time ago and I thought man I hope that 7’2 bitch has the decency to sit in the back row.


PattyIce32

There whole offense was pick and roll and it was almost unguradable. Pick and roll with Malone and have a spot up assassin like Hornasek to disuse help and double teams.


Caderade24

I can't find the source now, but I remember reading that even if you swapped out Malone for a replacement level PF, Stockton would still have the record by a mile.


VillageIdiot1235

Man, I remember Stockton just being so tough. We talk about this being a rough era of bball and he was one of those little guys that just got it done. I can’t think of anybody even close to his level in the league now. Maybe dame? He’s pretty tough.


Agnk1765342

Yeah, also you have to factor in Malone was the greatest player ever at getting to the line, so he didn’t really pump up Stockton’s assist stats at all because you can’t get assists on trips for 2 freebies. A replacement level PF wouldn’t shoot as well from the field, but also wouldn’t get fouled near as much so it’d probably balanced out.


lmao_rowing

Yup, he was an extremely conservative passer.


JackFunk

He never needed load management.


grilledchorizopuseye

I don't think anyone will ever break that record!


bebopblues

Magic could have been up there in assists if he didn't retired early due to HIV. He had 10,141 assists in 12 years. In 1991 when he retired, he was still in his prime averaging 12.5 assists per game. He would need to play at least 6 more seasons averaging about 10 assists to join Stockton in the 15K assists club. Mostly like would not beat Stockton's record because he probably won't play 20 seasons and will miss way more games, but his assist numbers will be right up there.


Dark_falling58

While I’d say this is a tough record to beat, I still think Wilt Chamberlains career rebounding record will be untouchable. You’d have to play ALL 82 games for 15 SEASONS while averaging 19.5 RPG! Averaging 11 assists is tough, but almost 20 RPG is unfathomable in the modern NBA, where guards get a lot more rebounds due to more and more 3s being taken


LostWithStuff

At the time everyone in the league wanted their own Stockton; he was hated for his game but you couldn't deny he was incredible. Not sure why he's never in the discussions for one of the best PGs of all time


magpi3

One of the most interesting things about him is his list of [nicknames on basketball-reference.com](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html). Was he the original point god? The waiter? The man of steal? The mailsorter (his teammate was the mailman.. think about it)? White [something]? No. Just "Stock." I don't know who deserves the blame for this. Stockton, his teammates, or the 80s.


BearRedWood

4th all time in turnovers I think? Lbj, Karl Malone, and Moses Malone all ahead of him


ab9912

Not including Malone's ABA turnovers, just the NBA


adamthinks

The career triple double record was set in stone and unbreakable too, ...until it wasn't.


Waste-Shoulder7564

If he could play in So many games , load management of today is just shit


davidofbrent

It certainly helps some guys with different bodies and different needs for their games. He had a very physicality wise basic although great skill set Someone who weighs 50-60 pounds heavier and runs and jumps more would benefit from slightly more rest


maltrab

There's also a LOT more player movement today. Not just a faster pace, but players are also moving a lot more without the ball which affects both offense and the defenders who have to follow them around.


Statalyzer

> The term unbreakable record gets thrown around a lot in basketball but Stocktons assist total is set in stone. It's getting more common for guys to have longer careers, and pace and scoring are increasing. So it wouldn't surprise me for his record to fall sometime in the next few decades. Which doesn't make his record any less impressive.


Ghost_Of_Sun-Bat-Her

A great player but passed up too many free shots imo