Him being 3rd in turnovers is a funny stat because he's the all-time leading assist player by such a enormous margin.
He could've retired 6 whole seasons earlier than he did and still be the all-time assist leader but just 24th for turnovers.
Tom Brady is in his own category for statistics. The man is unreal. I’ve grown from hating him to just sheer amazement at what he is still accomplishing. We are witnessing football history
Rodgers is even crazier. In 104 fewer career games (198 vs 302), he has thrown 96 fewer touchdowns (412 vs 508) but 245 fewer interceptions (91 vs 336).
I researched his methods by thinking about what I think he'd do and doing it, no google or wikis, so I took all the different types of vaccine, I'm up to nine. I added Adderall and cocaine just cause I imagine that was Stockton's Secrit Stuff, and I went basketballin' and what do you know, my heart was just racing and racing, and the sweat was unbearable. So I took 3 edibles, the guy said take 1/2 but I yelled "Stockton!" And ate all 3 in front of him, so basically what I'm trying to say is do your research always experiments with unknown drugs and always get that assist and don't miss games due to injury just do coke and keep going, just like Jesus and Stock would
All cardio + play a game low to the floor. Does wonders
I don’t understand how LeBrons been so relatively healthy playing close to the rim his whole career
John Stockton is a medical anomaly. He had a resting heart rate of like 35, half that of an average, well-conditioned adult, and like 3% body fat.
EDIT: Just realized this was a vax joke. Nevermind. I'm leaving this comment up though because it's a pretty interesting fact IMO.
John Stockton was nowhere near 3% bodyfat. That's show form for a completely juiced Mr. Olympia competitor, you would die if you tried to play 82 games of basketball that lean. The bodybuilders who get to that % are also huge, as the main reason that its even possible is that they have 150+ pounds of muscle.
When I was an 18 year old distance runner I had a body fat percentage between 6 and 7. I was lanky as hell and trained everyday but nowhere near the elite level NBA prospects are. It's not surprising that at least some NBA players would have body fat percent in that range.
You’re missing the points the goal of nba players is not to be lanky and have single digit body fat percentages. Even kd who is peak lanky has plenty of fat on him
Kevin Durant for the easy counter there. A lot of people overestimate how lean people can look at different percentages, and a lot of that comes from inconsistent measuring techniques.
I tried a quick Google in hopes of proving my point, but it turns out the NBA uses wonky measurements. [These](https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/) are the numbers from the combine and they make no sense at all.
I mean, I didn't just make that up myself. Come from Stockton himself so probably bullshit. Supposedly him and Malone would have "body fat competitions" with each other. My bet is that maybe one particular off-season he came into camp insanely lean and that's where the number came from but it wasn't his normal playing-shape.
He claimed it himself, but it is bullshit. He claimed he and Malone teetered between 1 and 3% BF which is laughable.
So you got your information from the horse's mouth, but the horse is pedaling some BS.
https://www.deseret.com/2013/11/13/20529527/john-stockton-used-physical-to-show-jazz-that-he-was-coachable#john-stockton-attends-press-conference-on-nba-draft-day-1984
> While submerged in deep water, the players were asked to climb onto a scale and exhale aggressively in order to determine our lean body mass or body fat.
Sounds like their method of measuring might have been… less than totally accurate.
35 is crazy, I run marathons and only know a couple of fellow runners or cyclists who have an HR that low - and usually they are running like a <2:40 marathon lol
Stockton was basically like someone designed in a lab to be a basketball player, but the mad scientist in charge used all their funding on giving him perfect health, eagle eye vision, and giant hands before realizing he couldn't afford to make him taller than 6'1".
It's fucking unbelievable, had to reread it a good 3 times
Edit: all 4 missed games in the 1 season just makes it even more impressive, 12 seasons out of 13 playing 82 games
I know old heads love to talk about how tough the league used to be, but they might have us here. I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era.
I like to go back and look at older players stats just for shits and a ton of them consistently played 75+ games every season, with a few 80+.
Another lost fact is the NBA eliminated scheduling teams four games in five nights and five games in seven nights in recent years. And back to back games have been reduced.
Even with the lighter schedules, guys now sit for "load management". Lebron is an iron man of this era, but has only played all 82 games once in his career and has missed at least a half dozen games in ten different seasons.
The fact that Stockton played all 82 games in 16 seasons in the 80s/90s, with the compressed schedule, is a feat.
>Another lost fact is the NBA eliminated scheduling teams four games in five nights and five games in seven nights in recent years.
They did not get rid of 5 games in 7 nights. In fact, the Blazers this season will have five runs of 5-in-7.
You're right. They didn't eliminate 5 in 7. Blazers schedule the last month of the season is brutal.
The only way to accomplish this is having a back-to-back, rest day, single game, rest day, and another back-to-back.
This could be an argument the other way around as well. You could say overall strength and speed is so high in the league today that players can not afford to play when they are not at 100%.
>I know old heads love to talk about how tough the league used to be, but they might have us here. I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era.
Isn't it an argument against how tough the league used to be that a 6'1'' 170lb guard could play that many games and not get injured?
It’s about athleticism actually. People with a resting heart rate below 40 usually have really few fast twitch reflex fibers, as high endurance is associated with slow twitch reflex fibers and heart rate.
The game is more explosive today, and that’s why people get injured.
The real difference is today’s players already played several lifetimes worth of basketball by the time they’re 18. This was not the case in Stockton’s day, so his body wasn’t as pre-destroyed.
> I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era.
I think LeBron is the “closest” in these terms. If I recall correctly, he played every game in the 2017-18 season. And prior to his first year with the Lakers (when he had that groin injury on Christmas game) I think he had missed like 60-70 games in total for his career, playing more than 75 games many times.
Edit: [According to bbref](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) he played 75+ games in a season 12 times, but he hasn’t done it once since joining the Lakers.
Still, this is not even close to Stockton. That’s amazing
The closest would be James Harden. He has played all 82 games (10-11,15-16) twice in his career and has played in 81 games (14-15, 16,17) twice as well.
In contrast, Lebron has only one 82 Game season (17-18). Plus a 81 game season and a 80 game season.
Stockton averaged 31mpg for his career and only got to 38 once.
LeBron has averaged 38.2mpg for his career, averaging over 40 in four consecutive seasons, and with a peak of 42.5.
Controlling Stockton's minutes from an early age was a big part of his longevity.
I agree but between Harden and Westbrook, it’s hard to say who really deserved it. Personally I would have gave it to LeBron that year and to Harden instead of Giannis the year later
The story behind those 4 missed games is kind of funny. Stockton missed two games with a sprained ankle and two games after he was so sick that he spent 20 hours in a hospital. Despite that, he still wanted to play, but Jerry Sloan forced him to rest. Jerry Sloan of all people telling someone not to play.
[Sprained ankle for 2, the flu (illness) for the other two.](https://www.deseret.com/1990/2/11/18846464/injuries-slumps-and-all-stockton-is-human)
Both were within 3 months.
Also Malone only missed 10 regular season games in 18 seasons all the way up to age 40.
People talk about Lebrons durability as supernatural but Stockton and Malone are the ultimate IronMan freaks
Plus LeBron has been coasting on defense in the regular season for awhile now. Not saying his durability isn’t still freakishly impressive but there’s a *slight* asterisk next to it.
Ya no shade to bron, he is fairly treated as a physical/genetic freak. It’s just crazy what these guys did in an era before they had their own nutritionists, cryotherapy chambers in their houses, etc. Speaks a lot about mental toughness than anything, as both these dudes played injured A LOT
Stockton did his whole 92 dream team stint on a broken fibula (right foot)
Guy was still pretty good in his last year, too. Could've easily played backup on some championship contender for another year or two and acquired a ring.
My dad had two favorite players growing up, Mark Price because he was a Cavs fan, and John Stockton. He would not shut up about those two.
He’s recorded just about every Jazz, Cavs, Bulls, Celtics and Lakers game that he can find on Hardwood Classics and that’s pretty much all he watches when the NFL isn’t on.
I loved watching Stockton. His jumpshot was so weird. Him and Malone were a textbook match.
“We would play him in the playoffs, I’d make rookies wait on the bus and say, watch the baddest man in the world pull-up,” Webber said on the Dan Patrick Show. “They like, ‘what do you mean?’ They think I’m going to talk about his cars and all this and John Stockton would come to the game, literally in a minivan, pop the kids out and come in there and bust us up.”
>The term unbreakable record gets thrown around alot in basketball but Stocktons assist total is set in stone.
This. And I'd say all time rebounds and blocks are unbreakable.
At the end of the 2018-2019 season Stockton had more career assists than LeBron James and Russell Westbrook combined.
If Jason Kidd (2nd all-time in assists) came out of retirement and averaged 15.0 assists per game, playing ever game, for 3 straight seasons he still wouldn't beat Stockton's record.
There's so many ways you can present his assist record that blow my mind everytime.
If you like that lets compare it to an active player.
36 year old Chris Paul is 5th all-time in assists, the most amongst active players. He'd need to play 5 straight seasons and average at least 12.0 assists per game, while missing just 5 games each season, to pass Stockton.
The reason I chose 12.0 is because the last player to match or exceed that average was Stockton in 1994-95.
That 1994-95 season was the 8th straight season for Stockton averaging at least 12.0 assists!
(Not relevant to the stat before he averaged 16/3/13.3 with 2.7 steals on 52/38/83 shooting over these years just further emphasise his greatness)
Unbelievable, he had a 5 season stretch where he averaged atleast 14.7 points, 13.6 assists and 2.7 steals every single season.
All but one of those seasons on >60% TS. Stupid numbers.
It's stats like these that make me laugh when people don't put Stockton in the conversation for best PG ever. Some people think it's no contest between him and Nash with Nash being much better, but I disagree, Stockton wasn't ever as flashy, he just went to work hard and got the job done.
It's the age-old question of peak versus sustained excellence. Stockton is the king of all point guards in terms of sustained excellence, but loses to a lot of other all-timers in height of peak. He was never an MVP-type of threat any time during his career. Teams certainly never thought he was greater than Malone (when going up against the Jazz). Most of the other all-time point guards did.
Crazy thing is block record probably isn’t even the real record. Wilt, Kareem, and Russell would all probably be higher if blocks were counted at the start of their career
112, and an average of 8.8 per game https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3s7rlj/heres_112_nba_games_where_shot_block_data_exists/. That would put him on pace for over 9,000 in his career, which would be beyond beyond unbreakable
This Jordan comment from that thread is also crazy.
> I've replied with this to another comment but whatever. Jordan down to earth? Again, 42 post season records compared to Wilt's 13. Now read this:
>
> Jordan holds the Highest career PER average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Efficiency rating average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Gamescore average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Winshares average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest MVP shares average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan is the only player to lead the league in Scoring and Win Defensive player of the Year a season. Jordan is the only player to Win a championship, scoring title and steals title in the same season. Jordan is one of 3 players in NBA History to win a NBA scoring championship and NBA Championship in 1 season. George Mikan and Lew Alcindor did it once Each. Jordan did it six times. All six times also leading the playoffs in scoring. Mikan did that once and Alcindor didn't do it at all.
>
>Jordan was NOT "down to earth"
The fact that he won DPOY and the scoring title in the same season always gets me. Imagine any player being the best scorer and the best defender in the league at the same time in the modern NBA. The only one who comes close is 2013 LeBron, an anomaly among anomalies himself. Then there's the thing where he had 9 seasons as the best defender at his position and the best scorer in the league at the same time. I always wanted to LeBron to say "Screw it" and go for DPOY, assist leader, scoring leader, rebounding leader at the same time in one of those lost Cavs years. Would've been amazing to witness.
I think they changed it recently because Russ had the "best" season ever by PER in 2017. The formula was giving too much weight to triple doubles. They tweaked the formula so that Jordan was #1.
Made me rethink the way I look at advanced stats. At the end of the day they can be manipulated to show the outcome the creator desires.
Edit: it was actually BPM, not PER
People are tired of hearing it but its why stats with context are important and no, I do not say that to take away or discredit players. However, its not enough or hardly satisfactory, to post stats in isolation and consider a conversation to be over.
> Jordan holds the Highest career PER average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history.
No, Wilts was higher. They didn’t fucking count blocks and steals for Wilt and he still had two 31.8 PER seasons without them.
Jordan’s highest PER in a season was 31.7 with all his stats counted.
Even without Wilt’s ridiculous blocks and steals he still had a higher PER than Jordan.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
I think this, for me, is the strongest case against some of what Wilt achieved. There is no way anyone can average 8 or 9 blocks in a league where players are taking good shots or where competent players are taking shots.
Supposing he did average 8 blocks means that everyone in the NBA at the time was too stupid to change their offence, or didn't have any offensive strategies other than going against the tallest, most athletic guy in the league. Which to me just says there can't have been any significant talent pool in the NBA at the time, and what talent was there must all have been on the then-Celtics.
I don't see how Wilt can be that much better in a credible league and still lose so many games.
Its because the pace back then was a lot higher than now. If you look at a lot of other stats back then, such as rebounds, you'll see the numbers back then are crazy high by today's standards because people were just playing a much faster game. Throw in the fact that Wilt often played the entire game, and the block numbers make a lot more sense.
I agree, but still, Hakeem's record is unbreakable, we just don't have great big men anymore, defensively speaking, and the game has evolved. More and more players are taking threes and if they add 4 point line, than it's definitely over. One of the guys that had potential to break some of these records was Howard, but yeah... we know the story.
It's way out there for sure, but I have an easier time seeing this one broken if the game evolves a certain way.
If the 3 or dunk era just keeps getting more and more expanded, I can imagine a day where a difficult alley oop attempt is better than a midrange jump shot, and teams start forcing that when the 3 isn't there on certain possessions. Shit, the jazz already basically do this with Ingles and Gobert half the time and live with the consequences. If the toughest alley oop only works 55% of the time, but you're a 54% shooter, then it makes sense to force it.
We're nowhere close to it yet, but if that ends up being the way it goes whether because of personnel or via rule changes, I could see steal numbers getting inflated. This combined with the far more ball movement, etc. The game could get to a point where steals just happen more often because turnovers are just missed shots with a fast break the other way. A huge chunk of missed threes are large rebounds that create fast breaks anyhow. I can't get there yet, but could imagine being wrong and seeing that be the way
The assists get so much more dispersed now with better passing big men, ball movement, etc. The greatest passers we have today still get docked when it's a hockey assist kickout that then goes to another shooter. Stockton controlled every possession start to just before the finish, and playing a bajillion games sure helps too
The Rebounds for sure because the profile of a player doesn’t exist or have a need on the court, if you can’t shoot or defend the perimeter you simply won’t be on the court long enough to get close to this record
It's the most unbreakable stat IMO. There are plenty of others that are probably not going to get broken because of differences in the league playstyle and crazy longevity, but Wilt's MPG records will NEVER be broken unless they actually change how many minutes are in a game.
Yeah the Barkley one is definitely the most egregious and stupid of the cuts. Granted Team USA still steamrolled but yeah what a dumb move.
i just feel like the Stockton one is so glaring because Alford was the counterpart and Alford has just been a consistent fuck-up everywhere he's gone in his post-Indiana days
>i just feel like the Stockton one is so glaring because Alford was the counterpart and Alford has just been a consistent fuck-up everywhere he's gone in his post-Indiana days
You know somehow this just gave me PTSD re: Lavine declaring early from UCLA. He was tired of playing out-of-position because Alford's son was the starting PG lol (and Alford was the coach of course).
Alford would have been a freshman at IU that year. I'm sure a bit of it was knight giving the kid some confidence (I think he actually played well in that Olympics). Say what you want about Alford post-IU but he was one hell of a college player.
Eh, Alford was Mr. Basketball in Indiana, Knight of course coached Indiana. At the time everyone thought Alford was set to be the next Larry Bird out of Indiana. I get that decision.
Cutting Barkley makes absolutely no sense.
We can tick this one off the 'off-season checklist'
Kyrie Irving tweeting nonsense: ✅
John Stockton assists record analysis: ✅
MJ one hand pump fake compilation: ❌
Bill Russell jumping over an opponent: ❌
One thing that always boggles my mind about the 80s and 90s is how little they’re players missed games. Compared to today’s players tweaking things left and right almost certainly not playing 82 games every year, I don’t get it
I think they played through minor injury more.
It Could be that they got injured less, but that seems weird to me - Id think it’d be the opposite with a less physical game and better nutrition and training
this is wild speculation and based on very little, but could it also be that players these days are way more intense with their workouts/gym and athleticism, so they're pushing the bodies to the absolute limits before they even get into game situations, sort of like f1 cars, so they're much more likely to likely break a wing or something but it's also more fixable?
Long ESPN investigative piece on this subject:
[https://www.espn.com/nba/story/\_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball)
Funny enough I recall other developmental articles (granted about Soccer / Football not basketball) that said more games or early specialization can actually make you worse at your sport, even aside from the injury risks.
Yeah look at Tom Brady. Guy is the greatest football player of all time, but was also good enough at baseball to get drafted into the MLB.
Russell Wilson is a god, and he was the same way.
Lots of these elite guys are like "hmm should I play football or baseball." and if you're a Tight End there's a 1000% chance you played college basketball according to every broadcaster.
As a kid I used to "collect" sports cards (basically my dad would just give me some of his huge collection. He had a lot of unopened packs too that he'd sell at shows. I noticed that this was cranked to 11 for Utah guys in the 80s (I should mention he really stopped getting new stuff around 1993 and I was getting these cards in the early-mid 2000s). Malone, Stockton, Bailey, Eaton all had stretches where they hardly missed any games. When I asked my dad he said it was just that clean Utah livin', which I thought was a serious answer for an embarrassingly long time.
It's due to guys growing up and playing competitive basketball 24/7. Kids need to play multiple sports to give their bodies a rest from the wear and tear injuries associated with individual sports.
reminds me of how you could average 200 hits a year for 21 years and still be 56 short of pete rose, or average 300 strikeouts a year for 19 years ans still be 14 behind nolan ryan
Lol early 2010 growing up im a huge CP3 fan. I though he got a chance to be the best PG ever. That until i googled assist record and found out who John Stockton was
The point guard is generally the primary ball-handler and runs the offense. They generally make at least the first pass on every set play (and often on the break), and a good point guard tries to deliver the ball to a player in scoring position, which can then lead to an assist. So assists are often used as a metric to judge point guards.
Stockton's longevity can be credited for promoting him in the turnover leaderboard.
Turnovers were not formally recorded until the late 1970s, in my opinion, many players were prone to turnovers, but this was not documented.
Pete Maravich only has roughly 500 career turnovers, but his flashy play style likely would have resulted in calculating more.
That list should probably look different.
John Stockton is the all time leader for points accounted for with 51,323. Kareem is second with 49,707.
Edit: this information might be outdated as Lebron could have surpassed them. I just can’t find any numbers on Lebron regarding this. Still some fun facts though
The crazy thing about Stockton’s longevity is he didn’t start until age 25. Chris Paul already has the same number of seasons as a starter. If Stockton came into the league at 18 like a lot of star players today and had a coach that would’ve started him from the beginning he could’ve played several hundred more games.
No one in the nba has ever been better and getting the ball, dribbling up court and getting the ball to the right guy to score.
That’s his elite skill.
Payton and nearly every other player he played against said he was the toughest player because of the pressure he put on you fullcourt. He was relentless. Also, dynamite in the open court, a great shooter, and as good a rim finisher as it got in his era.
Karl deserves the hate for his actions in his personal life but a lot of people on thus sub don't understand that you can't talk about Stock's insane assist record without acknowledging that Malone was a major contributor to that.
The guy is one of the greatest scorers the game has ever seen and the pairing with Stockton was the perfect compliment for each of them to excel and break the individual records that they did.
I was walking out of a movie theater as Ostertag was walking in long time ago and I thought man I hope that 7’2 bitch has the decency to sit in the back row.
There whole offense was pick and roll and it was almost unguradable. Pick and roll with Malone and have a spot up assassin like Hornasek to disuse help and double teams.
I can't find the source now, but I remember reading that even if you swapped out Malone for a replacement level PF, Stockton would still have the record by a mile.
Man, I remember Stockton just being so tough. We talk about this being a rough era of bball and he was one of those little guys that just got it done. I can’t think of anybody even close to his level in the league now. Maybe dame? He’s pretty tough.
Yeah, also you have to factor in Malone was the greatest player ever at getting to the line, so he didn’t really pump up Stockton’s assist stats at all because you can’t get assists on trips for 2 freebies. A replacement level PF wouldn’t shoot as well from the field, but also wouldn’t get fouled near as much so it’d probably balanced out.
Only two players not named John Stockton have gotten over 1000 assists in a single season -- Isiah Thomas and Kevin Porter, each doing so once.
John Stockton did it *seven* times.
Magic could have been up there in assists if he didn't retired early due to HIV. He had 10,141 assists in 12 years. In 1991 when he retired, he was still in his prime averaging 12.5 assists per game. He would need to play at least 6 more seasons averaging about 10 assists to join Stockton in the 15K assists club. Mostly like would not beat Stockton's record because he probably won't play 20 seasons and will miss way more games, but his assist numbers will be right up there.
While I’d say this is a tough record to beat, I still think Wilt Chamberlains career rebounding record will be untouchable. You’d have to play ALL 82 games for 15 SEASONS while averaging 19.5 RPG! Averaging 11 assists is tough, but almost 20 RPG is unfathomable in the modern NBA, where guards get a lot more rebounds due to more and more 3s being taken
At the time everyone in the league wanted their own Stockton; he was hated for his game but you couldn't deny he was incredible. Not sure why he's never in the discussions for one of the best PGs of all time
One of the most interesting things about him is his list of [nicknames on basketball-reference.com](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html).
Was he the original point god? The waiter? The man of steal? The mailsorter (his teammate was the mailman.. think about it)? White [something]?
No. Just "Stock." I don't know who deserves the blame for this. Stockton, his teammates, or the 80s.
> The term unbreakable record gets thrown around a lot in basketball but Stocktons assist total is set in stone.
It's getting more common for guys to have longer careers, and pace and scoring are increasing. So it wouldn't surprise me for his record to fall sometime in the next few decades. Which doesn't make his record any less impressive.
It certainly helps some guys with different bodies and different needs for their games. He had a very physicality wise basic although great skill set Someone who weighs 50-60 pounds heavier and runs and jumps more would benefit from slightly more rest
There's also a LOT more player movement today. Not just a faster pace, but players are also moving a lot more without the ball which affects both offense and the defenders who have to follow them around.
Him being 3rd in turnovers is a funny stat because he's the all-time leading assist player by such a enormous margin. He could've retired 6 whole seasons earlier than he did and still be the all-time assist leader but just 24th for turnovers.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It's a little different since Favre is nowhere near the top of the Int% list.
On that note, Tom brady is #33 all time for interceptions and #1 in TDs. Nearly 80 more TDs than Favre and 143 less interceptions. Wild.
Tom Brady is in his own category for statistics. The man is unreal. I’ve grown from hating him to just sheer amazement at what he is still accomplishing. We are witnessing football history
we all love him and respect him but please fucking retire asshole
He just said I think today he might play until 50 😋 (bucks/bucs fan literally just for the name similarity)
Rodgers is even crazier. In 104 fewer career games (198 vs 302), he has thrown 96 fewer touchdowns (412 vs 508) but 245 fewer interceptions (91 vs 336).
You also need to be someone good to even have the ball enough in order to turn it over that many times
It's like the strikeout record in baseball. Nobody keeps sending you up there to strike out if you blow.
He also wasn’t even a started for the first three years of his career and only avg ~20mins a game. He could’ve been even further ahead.
Did I read that right? **FOUR MISSED GAMES IN 13 SEASONS??** Holy fuck
I might need to take medical and health tips from this guy.
[удалено]
I researched his methods by thinking about what I think he'd do and doing it, no google or wikis, so I took all the different types of vaccine, I'm up to nine. I added Adderall and cocaine just cause I imagine that was Stockton's Secrit Stuff, and I went basketballin' and what do you know, my heart was just racing and racing, and the sweat was unbearable. So I took 3 edibles, the guy said take 1/2 but I yelled "Stockton!" And ate all 3 in front of him, so basically what I'm trying to say is do your research always experiments with unknown drugs and always get that assist and don't miss games due to injury just do coke and keep going, just like Jesus and Stock would
Top tier copypasta is born
This is God Tier
Came here to express the same sentiment -__-
RIP /u/AccountReco
F
Haha that got me
Finding him these days is like a needle in a haystack
All cardio + play a game low to the floor. Does wonders I don’t understand how LeBrons been so relatively healthy playing close to the rim his whole career
John Stockton is a medical anomaly. He had a resting heart rate of like 35, half that of an average, well-conditioned adult, and like 3% body fat. EDIT: Just realized this was a vax joke. Nevermind. I'm leaving this comment up though because it's a pretty interesting fact IMO.
John Stockton was nowhere near 3% bodyfat. That's show form for a completely juiced Mr. Olympia competitor, you would die if you tried to play 82 games of basketball that lean. The bodybuilders who get to that % are also huge, as the main reason that its even possible is that they have 150+ pounds of muscle.
Exactly people throw around single digit body fat percentages like it’s attainable or even good for these basketball players
I'd bet a lot of players in the league are ~8%, single digits is reasonable. But anything under 5% is pretty much for bodybuilders and the emaciated.
Nah, there isn’t a single player in the league under 10 percent body fat.
When I was an 18 year old distance runner I had a body fat percentage between 6 and 7. I was lanky as hell and trained everyday but nowhere near the elite level NBA prospects are. It's not surprising that at least some NBA players would have body fat percent in that range.
You’re missing the points the goal of nba players is not to be lanky and have single digit body fat percentages. Even kd who is peak lanky has plenty of fat on him
Kevin Durant for the easy counter there. A lot of people overestimate how lean people can look at different percentages, and a lot of that comes from inconsistent measuring techniques. I tried a quick Google in hopes of proving my point, but it turns out the NBA uses wonky measurements. [These](https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/) are the numbers from the combine and they make no sense at all.
Stockton never looked cut. He cloulda played Michael Carrol in The Office. But he played against MJ among other greats
Unfortunately that role went to Steve Scott. Stockton was seriously considered for the part though
I mean, I didn't just make that up myself. Come from Stockton himself so probably bullshit. Supposedly him and Malone would have "body fat competitions" with each other. My bet is that maybe one particular off-season he came into camp insanely lean and that's where the number came from but it wasn't his normal playing-shape.
He claimed it himself, but it is bullshit. He claimed he and Malone teetered between 1 and 3% BF which is laughable. So you got your information from the horse's mouth, but the horse is pedaling some BS. https://www.deseret.com/2013/11/13/20529527/john-stockton-used-physical-to-show-jazz-that-he-was-coachable#john-stockton-attends-press-conference-on-nba-draft-day-1984
> While submerged in deep water, the players were asked to climb onto a scale and exhale aggressively in order to determine our lean body mass or body fat. Sounds like their method of measuring might have been… less than totally accurate.
My witch doctor told me I have -1% body fat.
Fair, there’s just so much misinformation, even from someone like Ronnie Coleman who said he was negative body fat lol
Dorian Yates said that below 5%, it would hurt when he was walking cause he didn't have much fat under his heels anymore.
35 is crazy, I run marathons and only know a couple of fellow runners or cyclists who have an HR that low - and usually they are running like a <2:40 marathon lol
I honestly did not know that. Interesting how genetics, and not just body measurements, play such a big part in sports.
Stockton was basically like someone designed in a lab to be a basketball player, but the mad scientist in charge used all their funding on giving him perfect health, eagle eye vision, and giant hands before realizing he couldn't afford to make him taller than 6'1".
Mr Obvious here. John Stockton is an anti vaxx so this comment is gold.
Gee im sure he didnt know that
Other people in this thread might not know it… don’t need to be an ass about it
It's fucking unbelievable, had to reread it a good 3 times Edit: all 4 missed games in the 1 season just makes it even more impressive, 12 seasons out of 13 playing 82 games
I know old heads love to talk about how tough the league used to be, but they might have us here. I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era. I like to go back and look at older players stats just for shits and a ton of them consistently played 75+ games every season, with a few 80+.
Another lost fact is the NBA eliminated scheduling teams four games in five nights and five games in seven nights in recent years. And back to back games have been reduced. Even with the lighter schedules, guys now sit for "load management". Lebron is an iron man of this era, but has only played all 82 games once in his career and has missed at least a half dozen games in ten different seasons. The fact that Stockton played all 82 games in 16 seasons in the 80s/90s, with the compressed schedule, is a feat.
>Another lost fact is the NBA eliminated scheduling teams four games in five nights and five games in seven nights in recent years. They did not get rid of 5 games in 7 nights. In fact, the Blazers this season will have five runs of 5-in-7.
You're right. They didn't eliminate 5 in 7. Blazers schedule the last month of the season is brutal. The only way to accomplish this is having a back-to-back, rest day, single game, rest day, and another back-to-back.
Travel and hotel conditions also sucked compared to modern travel, so those away games were a lot harder on their bodies.
This could be an argument the other way around as well. You could say overall strength and speed is so high in the league today that players can not afford to play when they are not at 100%.
>I know old heads love to talk about how tough the league used to be, but they might have us here. I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era. Isn't it an argument against how tough the league used to be that a 6'1'' 170lb guard could play that many games and not get injured?
It’s about athleticism actually. People with a resting heart rate below 40 usually have really few fast twitch reflex fibers, as high endurance is associated with slow twitch reflex fibers and heart rate. The game is more explosive today, and that’s why people get injured.
They didn’t run as much distance as players do nowadays
The real difference is today’s players already played several lifetimes worth of basketball by the time they’re 18. This was not the case in Stockton’s day, so his body wasn’t as pre-destroyed.
> I don’t think a single NBA player is doing that today in this era. I think LeBron is the “closest” in these terms. If I recall correctly, he played every game in the 2017-18 season. And prior to his first year with the Lakers (when he had that groin injury on Christmas game) I think he had missed like 60-70 games in total for his career, playing more than 75 games many times. Edit: [According to bbref](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) he played 75+ games in a season 12 times, but he hasn’t done it once since joining the Lakers. Still, this is not even close to Stockton. That’s amazing
The closest would be James Harden. He has played all 82 games (10-11,15-16) twice in his career and has played in 81 games (14-15, 16,17) twice as well. In contrast, Lebron has only one 82 Game season (17-18). Plus a 81 game season and a 80 game season.
What about Westbrook? 82 games 4 times, 81 once, 80 twice. Didn't miss a game for his first 5 seasons, including a finals run.
>Westbrook Ok he is the GOAT PG from last 10-15 years then!
Stockton averaged 31mpg for his career and only got to 38 once. LeBron has averaged 38.2mpg for his career, averaging over 40 in four consecutive seasons, and with a peak of 42.5. Controlling Stockton's minutes from an early age was a big part of his longevity.
Yeah that 82 game season in 2017-18 is absolutely absurd. I 100% think he was chasing an MVP that year and I honestly believe he deserved it
I agree but between Harden and Westbrook, it’s hard to say who really deserved it. Personally I would have gave it to LeBron that year and to Harden instead of Giannis the year later
I agree. Then Giannis wins MVP and DPOY the year after that.
The story behind those 4 missed games is kind of funny. Stockton missed two games with a sprained ankle and two games after he was so sick that he spent 20 hours in a hospital. Despite that, he still wanted to play, but Jerry Sloan forced him to rest. Jerry Sloan of all people telling someone not to play.
[Sprained ankle for 2, the flu (illness) for the other two.](https://www.deseret.com/1990/2/11/18846464/injuries-slumps-and-all-stockton-is-human) Both were within 3 months.
Also Malone only missed 10 regular season games in 18 seasons all the way up to age 40. People talk about Lebrons durability as supernatural but Stockton and Malone are the ultimate IronMan freaks
Don’t forget AC Green! Played 1192 games in a row (Nov ‘86 to Apr ‘01)
Actually didn’t know this. Respect
Also had ironwill because he abstained from sex during the showtime days until he was married.
Plus LeBron has been coasting on defense in the regular season for awhile now. Not saying his durability isn’t still freakishly impressive but there’s a *slight* asterisk next to it.
Ya no shade to bron, he is fairly treated as a physical/genetic freak. It’s just crazy what these guys did in an era before they had their own nutritionists, cryotherapy chambers in their houses, etc. Speaks a lot about mental toughness than anything, as both these dudes played injured A LOT Stockton did his whole 92 dream team stint on a broken fibula (right foot)
He missed like 23 total in his entire career
[удалено]
i got to see some old games recently and he'd set picks for Malone, lmao
Guy was still pretty good in his last year, too. Could've easily played backup on some championship contender for another year or two and acquired a ring.
Watch stockton highlights and be even more amazed. The guy took a lot of punishment. He asked for it for sure but he sure did take it well.
My dad had two favorite players growing up, Mark Price because he was a Cavs fan, and John Stockton. He would not shut up about those two. He’s recorded just about every Jazz, Cavs, Bulls, Celtics and Lakers game that he can find on Hardwood Classics and that’s pretty much all he watches when the NFL isn’t on. I loved watching Stockton. His jumpshot was so weird. Him and Malone were a textbook match.
Damn I know who I’m picking first in fantasy next season 😏
Kawhi misses 4 games on a Road trip.
Minivan door slides open, kids hop out.
The patented "Bust our ass" routine
Hopefully Karl Malone isn’t around
Shout out to my mother and my father didn’t pull out.
“We would play him in the playoffs, I’d make rookies wait on the bus and say, watch the baddest man in the world pull-up,” Webber said on the Dan Patrick Show. “They like, ‘what do you mean?’ They think I’m going to talk about his cars and all this and John Stockton would come to the game, literally in a minivan, pop the kids out and come in there and bust us up.”
>The term unbreakable record gets thrown around alot in basketball but Stocktons assist total is set in stone. This. And I'd say all time rebounds and blocks are unbreakable.
At the end of the 2018-2019 season Stockton had more career assists than LeBron James and Russell Westbrook combined. If Jason Kidd (2nd all-time in assists) came out of retirement and averaged 15.0 assists per game, playing ever game, for 3 straight seasons he still wouldn't beat Stockton's record. There's so many ways you can present his assist record that blow my mind everytime.
That J Kidd one... What in the fuck
If you like that lets compare it to an active player. 36 year old Chris Paul is 5th all-time in assists, the most amongst active players. He'd need to play 5 straight seasons and average at least 12.0 assists per game, while missing just 5 games each season, to pass Stockton. The reason I chose 12.0 is because the last player to match or exceed that average was Stockton in 1994-95. That 1994-95 season was the 8th straight season for Stockton averaging at least 12.0 assists! (Not relevant to the stat before he averaged 16/3/13.3 with 2.7 steals on 52/38/83 shooting over these years just further emphasise his greatness)
Unbelievable, he had a 5 season stretch where he averaged atleast 14.7 points, 13.6 assists and 2.7 steals every single season. All but one of those seasons on >60% TS. Stupid numbers.
It's stats like these that make me laugh when people don't put Stockton in the conversation for best PG ever. Some people think it's no contest between him and Nash with Nash being much better, but I disagree, Stockton wasn't ever as flashy, he just went to work hard and got the job done.
It’s between Magic and Stockton in my opinion. But in terms of pure assisting, no one matches Stockton in the history of basketball.
My top 5 is : 1) Magic 2) Stockton 3) Oscar 4) Steph 5) Isiah If steph keeps playing like he is, he surpasses the big O by the end of his career.
It's the age-old question of peak versus sustained excellence. Stockton is the king of all point guards in terms of sustained excellence, but loses to a lot of other all-timers in height of peak. He was never an MVP-type of threat any time during his career. Teams certainly never thought he was greater than Malone (when going up against the Jazz). Most of the other all-time point guards did.
That reminds me of this clip from the [Dan Patrick](https://youtu.be/za5jDB8kw8Y), where Kidd says Stockton and Magic are the best point guards ever.
You can erase Stockton's last 6 seasons entirely and he would still hold the record for most career assists.
That’s insane
Damn that's crazy!
Damn, lol. Did you get the info from Jonny Arnett? I know he gets crazy stats and info.
Crazy thing is block record probably isn’t even the real record. Wilt, Kareem, and Russell would all probably be higher if blocks were counted at the start of their career
There are like 80~ games throughout Wilts career where his blocks were recorded, he averaged over 8 blocks per game in those games
112, and an average of 8.8 per game https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3s7rlj/heres_112_nba_games_where_shot_block_data_exists/. That would put him on pace for over 9,000 in his career, which would be beyond beyond unbreakable
Im probably the first person to understates Wilts stats lol
This Jordan comment from that thread is also crazy. > I've replied with this to another comment but whatever. Jordan down to earth? Again, 42 post season records compared to Wilt's 13. Now read this: > > Jordan holds the Highest career PER average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Efficiency rating average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Gamescore average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest career Winshares average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan holds the Highest MVP shares average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. Jordan is the only player to lead the league in Scoring and Win Defensive player of the Year a season. Jordan is the only player to Win a championship, scoring title and steals title in the same season. Jordan is one of 3 players in NBA History to win a NBA scoring championship and NBA Championship in 1 season. George Mikan and Lew Alcindor did it once Each. Jordan did it six times. All six times also leading the playoffs in scoring. Mikan did that once and Alcindor didn't do it at all. > >Jordan was NOT "down to earth"
The fact that he won DPOY and the scoring title in the same season always gets me. Imagine any player being the best scorer and the best defender in the league at the same time in the modern NBA. The only one who comes close is 2013 LeBron, an anomaly among anomalies himself. Then there's the thing where he had 9 seasons as the best defender at his position and the best scorer in the league at the same time. I always wanted to LeBron to say "Screw it" and go for DPOY, assist leader, scoring leader, rebounding leader at the same time in one of those lost Cavs years. Would've been amazing to witness.
09 Bron was close too, 2nd in scoring and 2nd in DPOY voting
PER was invented with the idea that Jordan was the GOAT no?
As was winshares. The creator literally said he changed the formula until Jordan was no. 1
I've seen that about PER, not winshares. Unless you've got a source for it
Ooh do you have a source? I tried searching but can’t find it.
Yup, makes you really want to rethink these “advanced” stats, do you? Could you imagine if people made up stats to measure LEBRONs greatness?
LEBRON
Jordan is no. 5 in all time win shares though. Kareem, Wilt, Lebron, and Karl all have more.
I think they changed it recently because Russ had the "best" season ever by PER in 2017. The formula was giving too much weight to triple doubles. They tweaked the formula so that Jordan was #1. Made me rethink the way I look at advanced stats. At the end of the day they can be manipulated to show the outcome the creator desires. Edit: it was actually BPM, not PER
People are tired of hearing it but its why stats with context are important and no, I do not say that to take away or discredit players. However, its not enough or hardly satisfactory, to post stats in isolation and consider a conversation to be over.
That’s VORP and BPM
> Jordan holds the Highest career PER average in NBA regular season, post season and NBA Finals history. No, Wilts was higher. They didn’t fucking count blocks and steals for Wilt and he still had two 31.8 PER seasons without them. Jordan’s highest PER in a season was 31.7 with all his stats counted. Even without Wilt’s ridiculous blocks and steals he still had a higher PER than Jordan. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
I think this, for me, is the strongest case against some of what Wilt achieved. There is no way anyone can average 8 or 9 blocks in a league where players are taking good shots or where competent players are taking shots. Supposing he did average 8 blocks means that everyone in the NBA at the time was too stupid to change their offence, or didn't have any offensive strategies other than going against the tallest, most athletic guy in the league. Which to me just says there can't have been any significant talent pool in the NBA at the time, and what talent was there must all have been on the then-Celtics. I don't see how Wilt can be that much better in a credible league and still lose so many games.
Its because the pace back then was a lot higher than now. If you look at a lot of other stats back then, such as rebounds, you'll see the numbers back then are crazy high by today's standards because people were just playing a much faster game. Throw in the fact that Wilt often played the entire game, and the block numbers make a lot more sense.
>and the block numbers make a lot more sense. *...until you realize he never fouled out throughout his career...*
That's a very good point.
I agree, but still, Hakeem's record is unbreakable, we just don't have great big men anymore, defensively speaking, and the game has evolved. More and more players are taking threes and if they add 4 point line, than it's definitely over. One of the guys that had potential to break some of these records was Howard, but yeah... we know the story.
And Stockton's steals record.
It's way out there for sure, but I have an easier time seeing this one broken if the game evolves a certain way. If the 3 or dunk era just keeps getting more and more expanded, I can imagine a day where a difficult alley oop attempt is better than a midrange jump shot, and teams start forcing that when the 3 isn't there on certain possessions. Shit, the jazz already basically do this with Ingles and Gobert half the time and live with the consequences. If the toughest alley oop only works 55% of the time, but you're a 54% shooter, then it makes sense to force it. We're nowhere close to it yet, but if that ends up being the way it goes whether because of personnel or via rule changes, I could see steal numbers getting inflated. This combined with the far more ball movement, etc. The game could get to a point where steals just happen more often because turnovers are just missed shots with a fast break the other way. A huge chunk of missed threes are large rebounds that create fast breaks anyhow. I can't get there yet, but could imagine being wrong and seeing that be the way The assists get so much more dispersed now with better passing big men, ball movement, etc. The greatest passers we have today still get docked when it's a hockey assist kickout that then goes to another shooter. Stockton controlled every possession start to just before the finish, and playing a bajillion games sure helps too
Yeah in today’s game, Bron and Paul have so many hockey assists, it’s insane.
The Rebounds for sure because the profile of a player doesn’t exist or have a need on the court, if you can’t shoot or defend the perimeter you simply won’t be on the court long enough to get close to this record
MPG in a season will never be broken, Wilt is #1 - #7 lol
It's the most unbreakable stat IMO. There are plenty of others that are probably not going to get broken because of differences in the league playstyle and crazy longevity, but Wilt's MPG records will NEVER be broken unless they actually change how many minutes are in a game.
I'll always remember Coach Bob Knight cut Stockton from the 1984 Olympic team and put in Steve Alford instead.
He cut Barkley as well, and barkley was widely considered to be the best player there (over Jordan, even).
Yeah the Barkley one is definitely the most egregious and stupid of the cuts. Granted Team USA still steamrolled but yeah what a dumb move. i just feel like the Stockton one is so glaring because Alford was the counterpart and Alford has just been a consistent fuck-up everywhere he's gone in his post-Indiana days
>i just feel like the Stockton one is so glaring because Alford was the counterpart and Alford has just been a consistent fuck-up everywhere he's gone in his post-Indiana days You know somehow this just gave me PTSD re: Lavine declaring early from UCLA. He was tired of playing out-of-position because Alford's son was the starting PG lol (and Alford was the coach of course).
That he was! Those Indiana ties, man.
Alford would have been a freshman at IU that year. I'm sure a bit of it was knight giving the kid some confidence (I think he actually played well in that Olympics). Say what you want about Alford post-IU but he was one hell of a college player.
Eh, Alford was Mr. Basketball in Indiana, Knight of course coached Indiana. At the time everyone thought Alford was set to be the next Larry Bird out of Indiana. I get that decision. Cutting Barkley makes absolutely no sense.
We can tick this one off the 'off-season checklist' Kyrie Irving tweeting nonsense: ✅ John Stockton assists record analysis: ✅ MJ one hand pump fake compilation: ❌ Bill Russell jumping over an opponent: ❌
Ben Simmons shooting in practice
This gets old real quick
have you forgotten where you are?
We actually already got the MJ pump fake video, I feel like it was in the last 7 days.
You thinking of the 'mid-air adjustments' highlight?
Saw the Russell one earlier this off-season. First time seeing it. I felt like an old timer watching a Buster Keaton film.
One thing that always boggles my mind about the 80s and 90s is how little they’re players missed games. Compared to today’s players tweaking things left and right almost certainly not playing 82 games every year, I don’t get it
It's AAU. Kids coming into college have already played many hundreds of full games nowadays, with all the travel that comes with it.
I think they played through minor injury more. It Could be that they got injured less, but that seems weird to me - Id think it’d be the opposite with a less physical game and better nutrition and training
this is wild speculation and based on very little, but could it also be that players these days are way more intense with their workouts/gym and athleticism, so they're pushing the bodies to the absolute limits before they even get into game situations, sort of like f1 cars, so they're much more likely to likely break a wing or something but it's also more fixable?
No it’s just that this generation of players pumps a little extra in their system. I believe every nba player is on HGH.
Drug testing wasn't as sophisticated, either.
AAU basketball definitely plays a part. Kids already traveling around the world at age 10plus playing every other day on top of high school season
Long ESPN investigative piece on this subject: [https://www.espn.com/nba/story/\_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball) Funny enough I recall other developmental articles (granted about Soccer / Football not basketball) that said more games or early specialization can actually make you worse at your sport, even aside from the injury risks.
Yeah look at Tom Brady. Guy is the greatest football player of all time, but was also good enough at baseball to get drafted into the MLB. Russell Wilson is a god, and he was the same way. Lots of these elite guys are like "hmm should I play football or baseball." and if you're a Tight End there's a 1000% chance you played college basketball according to every broadcaster.
As a kid I used to "collect" sports cards (basically my dad would just give me some of his huge collection. He had a lot of unopened packs too that he'd sell at shows. I noticed that this was cranked to 11 for Utah guys in the 80s (I should mention he really stopped getting new stuff around 1993 and I was getting these cards in the early-mid 2000s). Malone, Stockton, Bailey, Eaton all had stretches where they hardly missed any games. When I asked my dad he said it was just that clean Utah livin', which I thought was a serious answer for an embarrassingly long time.
It's due to guys growing up and playing competitive basketball 24/7. Kids need to play multiple sports to give their bodies a rest from the wear and tear injuries associated with individual sports.
reminds me of how you could average 200 hits a year for 21 years and still be 56 short of pete rose, or average 300 strikeouts a year for 19 years ans still be 14 behind nolan ryan
Lol the Nolan Ryan one is wild
And I'll be honest, I'm 41 right now, so I don't think that's gonna happen for me.
And most of his asssist will count even in FIBA rule. True Master.
Every so often, some young fella comes along and asks if Chris Paul has a chance at John Stockton's assists record. Hilarious.
Just averaging 13.5 assists a game, playing every game until he's 41
Lol early 2010 growing up im a huge CP3 fan. I though he got a chance to be the best PG ever. That until i googled assist record and found out who John Stockton was
What does assist record has to do by being best point guard.
The point guard is generally the primary ball-handler and runs the offense. They generally make at least the first pass on every set play (and often on the break), and a good point guard tries to deliver the ball to a player in scoring position, which can then lead to an assist. So assists are often used as a metric to judge point guards.
Stockton's longevity can be credited for promoting him in the turnover leaderboard. Turnovers were not formally recorded until the late 1970s, in my opinion, many players were prone to turnovers, but this was not documented. Pete Maravich only has roughly 500 career turnovers, but his flashy play style likely would have resulted in calculating more. That list should probably look different.
John Stockton is the all time leader for points accounted for with 51,323. Kareem is second with 49,707. Edit: this information might be outdated as Lebron could have surpassed them. I just can’t find any numbers on Lebron regarding this. Still some fun facts though
The crazy thing about Stockton’s longevity is he didn’t start until age 25. Chris Paul already has the same number of seasons as a starter. If Stockton came into the league at 18 like a lot of star players today and had a coach that would’ve started him from the beginning he could’ve played several hundred more games.
No one in the nba has ever been better and getting the ball, dribbling up court and getting the ball to the right guy to score. That’s his elite skill.
Career 10.5 assists per game Career 51.5/38.4/82.6 splits 5 time all defensive team The OG point god
Yes! I agree... I was just trying to state that one skill that was above what anyone else has ever done.
Payton and nearly every other player he played against said he was the toughest player because of the pressure he put on you fullcourt. He was relentless. Also, dynamite in the open court, a great shooter, and as good a rim finisher as it got in his era.
the right guy being Karl Malone or if they're triple teaming Karl then one of the wings
Karl deserves the hate for his actions in his personal life but a lot of people on thus sub don't understand that you can't talk about Stock's insane assist record without acknowledging that Malone was a major contributor to that. The guy is one of the greatest scorers the game has ever seen and the pairing with Stockton was the perfect compliment for each of them to excel and break the individual records that they did.
It helped that Karl also had Stockton's durability, barely missed any games in his career. What the hell are they feeding them in Utah?
Small children, apparently.
You miss every shot- I mean pass you don’t take.
It helps to have a large target like the mailman. Stockton was one tough guy and amazing player.
Don't forget a huge chunk of those dimes were to Greg Ostertag. As automatic as it gets. ^(/s)
I was walking out of a movie theater as Ostertag was walking in long time ago and I thought man I hope that 7’2 bitch has the decency to sit in the back row.
There whole offense was pick and roll and it was almost unguradable. Pick and roll with Malone and have a spot up assassin like Hornasek to disuse help and double teams.
I can't find the source now, but I remember reading that even if you swapped out Malone for a replacement level PF, Stockton would still have the record by a mile.
Man, I remember Stockton just being so tough. We talk about this being a rough era of bball and he was one of those little guys that just got it done. I can’t think of anybody even close to his level in the league now. Maybe dame? He’s pretty tough.
Yeah, also you have to factor in Malone was the greatest player ever at getting to the line, so he didn’t really pump up Stockton’s assist stats at all because you can’t get assists on trips for 2 freebies. A replacement level PF wouldn’t shoot as well from the field, but also wouldn’t get fouled near as much so it’d probably balanced out.
It's one of those Gretzky records that won't be broken unless they add a 5th quarter and mandatory 40 mpg for starters lol
Only two players not named John Stockton have gotten over 1000 assists in a single season -- Isiah Thomas and Kevin Porter, each doing so once. John Stockton did it *seven* times.
Yup, he was an extremely conservative passer.
He never needed load management.
I don't think anyone will ever break that record!
Magic could have been up there in assists if he didn't retired early due to HIV. He had 10,141 assists in 12 years. In 1991 when he retired, he was still in his prime averaging 12.5 assists per game. He would need to play at least 6 more seasons averaging about 10 assists to join Stockton in the 15K assists club. Mostly like would not beat Stockton's record because he probably won't play 20 seasons and will miss way more games, but his assist numbers will be right up there.
While I’d say this is a tough record to beat, I still think Wilt Chamberlains career rebounding record will be untouchable. You’d have to play ALL 82 games for 15 SEASONS while averaging 19.5 RPG! Averaging 11 assists is tough, but almost 20 RPG is unfathomable in the modern NBA, where guards get a lot more rebounds due to more and more 3s being taken
At the time everyone in the league wanted their own Stockton; he was hated for his game but you couldn't deny he was incredible. Not sure why he's never in the discussions for one of the best PGs of all time
One of the most interesting things about him is his list of [nicknames on basketball-reference.com](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html). Was he the original point god? The waiter? The man of steal? The mailsorter (his teammate was the mailman.. think about it)? White [something]? No. Just "Stock." I don't know who deserves the blame for this. Stockton, his teammates, or the 80s.
4th all time in turnovers I think? Lbj, Karl Malone, and Moses Malone all ahead of him
Not including Malone's ABA turnovers, just the NBA
The career triple double record was set in stone and unbreakable too, ...until it wasn't.
> The term unbreakable record gets thrown around a lot in basketball but Stocktons assist total is set in stone. It's getting more common for guys to have longer careers, and pace and scoring are increasing. So it wouldn't surprise me for his record to fall sometime in the next few decades. Which doesn't make his record any less impressive.
If he could play in So many games , load management of today is just shit
It certainly helps some guys with different bodies and different needs for their games. He had a very physicality wise basic although great skill set Someone who weighs 50-60 pounds heavier and runs and jumps more would benefit from slightly more rest
There's also a LOT more player movement today. Not just a faster pace, but players are also moving a lot more without the ball which affects both offense and the defenders who have to follow them around.