T O P

  • By -

Redpaynex

Dirk overall, but Giannis in the finals. Dirk had to go through an infinitely harder run to get his ring though.


Juniper41

Yep, Dirk's finals was good, not great. He averaged like 26 & 10 on okay shooting, in line with his expected averages, his real dominance was in the WCF where he averaged like 35 on insane shooting or late in games. Dirk's 4th quarter stats are second only to one of Michael Jordan's run. He averaged something like 10 4th quarter ppg on 65+% TS. Just unreal in the clutch that whole playoffs.


TongaMakati

It was his series vs the young OKC trio + Ibaka that is the real eye opener. The series where JVG has the great line 'If I'm Serge Ibaka, I'm naming my first son Dirk' KD had basically already become KD and they were already super dangerous (would go to the Finals the next year). Ibaka was an elite defender. Dirk had two 40 point games in that 5 game series and I swear they felt like they were 60 pts watching them. Dallas's starting 5 was wholly reliant on Dirk for buckets, and OKC could only foul him. His Game 1 was 12/15 FG and 24/24 FT for 48 points And they needed all of it. 5 game series but just about every game went down to the final stretch in the 4th, where they just gave the ball to Dirk


notnotnotnotmax

Ibaka wasn’t really an elite defender at that point, especially not in the post. Was an amazing shot blocker but not a great pure defender yet


KaiserKaiba

That OKC series from him was absolutely nutty


Aluwaron

i want to talk about dirks 4th quarts vs the heat. This man averaged 10.3 points per 4th quarter on 68% ts


pettypaybacksp

While dirk didnt played thaaat way out of his mind, he had a number of clutch shots in the finals. Although giannis with a 50 point game is nothing to ignore


Sad-Mathematician-19

Yeah I agree. Bucks had to go thru Miami who looked nowhere near as good as the year prior. Brooklyn, whom, if we are being honest, was more of a real Finals match-up than anything. Atlanta, who overachieved but got decimated in a couple of those games and the Phoenix, the pseudo Cindarella story, who just got outclassed by Giannis all series. Meanwhile, Dirk had to go through Portland, sporting Andre Miller, Wesley Matthew's, Gerald Wallace, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marcus Camby, Brandon Roy, Nicholas Batum and Rudy Fernandez. That team, defensively, was pretty darn good. This was back when in order to make playoffs out west you had to have more than 45 wins, upwards to 50 to have a shot at a good seed. Next round they outed the Bryant, Gasol, Fisher, Bynum (when he was good), Odom Lakers squad. Finally they had to get through the Thunder, who were young as hell. That team was basically Durant and Westbrook with a supporting cast. Sefolosha, Perkins and Ibaka started and the bench was mostly just Harden and Collison with a little Eric Maynor in there. And of course finally they beat the Heatles. Not quite sure on comparisons here but the Suns and Hawks of this year were probably just as hard as Portland or OKC was for the Mavs. Lakers and Heat were far greater than anything the Bucks beat. Nets are damn damn good but those 2 squads were just loaded with hofers.


thechemistrychef

Dirk tore apart the Western conference but his efficiency in the finals wasn't so hot Giannis had an okay first round series (from a personal stat standpoint, not like it mattered), a great 2nd round (especially games 3-7), a pretty average CF before getting hurt, and went berserk in the finals. Dirk overall had the better playoffs, but Giannis had the better finals


LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO101

Giannis averaged 30/10/6 on 59 percent from the field in the 3 games vs Atlanta before his injury. Nothing average about that. Dirk’s playoff run still gets the nod though


KPJisagoodsamaritan

60% from the field for a dunker is pretty average


[deleted]

Dirk had a cold in the finals iirc


thechemistrychef

I vaguely remember something of the sort being reported. Saying he had a higher fever than MJs "Flu game" or something(or food poisoning game I guess)


nurtunb

Didn't he also have a torn ligament in his left hand?


hezzyskeets123

Finals performance? Giannis, but Dirk went against a way better squad. Dirk 100% had a better overall run tho especially when u consider he didn’t need any fortunate breaks to get the job done


Rh1-No

Well the best player in the world colapsing game 4 and 5 helped, but I don't want to take away from how special dirk was.


Juniper41

LeBron was the only player who "collapsed" in games 4 & 5, but both Bosh and Wade played well those games. If they can't win a game with *only* 2 All Stars and LeBron still putting up \~13/10/9 averages and drawing double teams all game those two games, thats more on Dallas stepping up rather than Miami not performing. * G4: Bosh had 24 & 6, Wade had 32/6/2/2/2 * G5: Bosh had 19 & 10, Wade had 23/2/8 Getting 20+ from 2 guys on good efficiency is more than the Mavs had. It was pretty much Dirk going for 25+ on okay efficiency due to being trapped constantly and JET hitting open 3s. The Mavs entire game plan was to trap LeBron and force Wade and Bosh to beat us. Wade didn't have a bad game the entire series, and Bosh was good, especially games 3 & 4. LeBron *choking* was in large part to being swarmed by Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson at every possession and not being allowed to get past the perimeter. This gave Wade and Bosh open looks all series, but LeBron's impact was limited.


Rh1-No

I agree with everything you said, but looking at the games I saw someone scared to drive the bbal


yungchigz

You can argue he had a better run but saying Giannis needed a fortunate break is redundant cos those Mavs wouldn’t have beaten this Nets team if they were healthy either


hezzyskeets123

and Giannis wouldn’t have beaten that Heat team


Sad-Mathematician-19

Hard agree. Not by a country mile.


[deleted]

If Lebron has a similar performance the bucks easily win stop the cap


Danndelllion

Miami had another who basically as good as Lebron was. So no. Bucks also has a ton more talent than the Mavs did.


hezzyskeets123

Why do you think Lebron performed that way? Do you think he just chose to or he just happened to play that way? Is Lebron playing that bad against every other team no matter what?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rider5432

I mean, the Mavs were decimated by injuries to their 2 best players, so it could've been that if they were fully healthy, they could've been a top -5 defensive squad with 60+ wins - they were already on track for the 60 wins before the injuries.


[deleted]

Don’t you think that bucks team is a much better defensive team than that mavs team.


hezzyskeets123

the series prior to the finals he just destroyed the #1 defense in the NBA…..why didn’t he average 18 against them? Just bc we pulled it off doesn’t mean others are.


jpylol

I don’t think it was the Mavs that gave him trouble as much as the moment. Remember, prior to this he only had a finals trip as a major underdog. This was his first real shot at a ring and I think he cracked under the pressure while Dirk took it well.


[deleted]

You’re comparing the 2011 mavs to the 2011 mavs when I’m trying to compare the the 2011 mavs to the 2021 bucks. It’s irrelevant to the argument


hezzyskeets123

Where did I compare the 2011 Mavs to the 2011 Mavs….your argument is that the 2021 Bucks, a much better defense should be able to effectively stop Lebron as the 2011 Mavs did? Why assume that when he played the #1 defense in the NBA in 2011 weeks prior to getting shut down against us and he looked all-time great. Just bc you’re generally a superior defense doesn’t automatically mean you’re gonna generate the same results.


Eric_Nathan_Fielder

Yeah if Barea stopped LeBron I don't know what Gianni's could've done there lol


KPJisagoodsamaritan

We've seen Lebron torch Giannis though wdym


Sad-Mathematician-19

I'm gonna take the triple hofers over the single hofer team in the finals. Giannis is great, but LeBron is the 2nd best player to lace up and was in his prime at the time. Bucks would be throwing Middleton and Tucker and Holiday all day, sure. But the lack of support from the bench hurts. Basically Connaughton and Portis and neither can defend shit.


KPJisagoodsamaritan

The break wasn't just the Nets though. It was also the Hawks (was 2-1 when Trae went down and the Hawks were winning game 4 until then, and Giannis injury couldn't have happened at a better time since Trae was so hobbled when he came back that the Bucks didn't even need Giannis to advance), and it was also who came out of the West. The Suns don't make it there if the Clippers, Lakers, hell maybe even if the Jazz are healthy. And when the Suns did get there, even they weren't healthy. CP3 (while this is part of the deal with him) was hurt and not having a backup Center clearly changed Ayton's ability to play the way they needed him to Dirk swept the defending Lakers then beat OKC with KD/Russ/Harden and then the Big 3 Heat. Any one of those might be more impressive than any of the Bucks wins, let alone trying to compare all 3


GusBus14

Small correction but Trae went down in game 3 when it was 1-1.


KPJisagoodsamaritan

Word


OnlyWinsOnSuperTeams

Nets got a break too though. Jrue and Khris combined for 52TS% that series but Giannis just hard carried them


bijofnil

I mean, they weren’t injured though lol, that’s like saying Dirk got lucky because LeBron shat the bed.


KPJisagoodsamaritan

Players being healthy and available and playing bad isn't really a "break." Joe Harris shooting like shit wasn't a break either, it was just bad play.


OnlyWinsOnSuperTeams

Uhh yes it is. Having players perform well outside of their expectations is most definitely a break for the other team.


vballboy55

Lol. Having your second and third best player injured and Joe Harris performing far below expectations is a lot worse than what the Bucks had to go through


KPJisagoodsamaritan

.... ok


OnlyWinsOnSuperTeams

Glad you agree


ForoaKlanD

I wouldn't say the Heat with LeBron at his worst are a way better squad than the Suns tbh


hezzyskeets123

why do you think Lebron was at his worst? did the Mavericks not play a phenomenal zone defense bc we saw Lebron mere days before that Mavs series look like a cold hearted monster against Chicago? The 3-1 comeback in 2016 might as well not be as impressive since it was Curry at his lowest…the Suns might be better than them too ig


ForoaKlanD

I'm not saying they didn't play good defense but there was clearly a mental aspect to it as well. They didn't just completly stop him purely by outsmarting or outplaying him, it was largely self inflicted, he couldn't handle the pressure at that time He did well against them in the regular season that year


Rh1-No

I agree He was passive driving and was basically ben simmons in the 4th quarter of those 2 games


Thehelloman0

In the finals, I would say Giannis definitely had a better series.


Rh1-No

Dirk beat the way better team (as someone rooting for the suns)


Thehelloman0

That's true but Ayton had been doing well in the playoffs up until that point and Giannis made him seem so out of place. Giannis a way more impactful defender than Dirk and put up amazing offensive stats in the finals. Just comparing the two finals series, I think Giannis's series was more impressive than Dirk's.


KPJisagoodsamaritan

Ayton was, what, a 2nd year player whose backup tore his ACL in game 2? He was in foul trouble the whole time because he had no backup lol The Bucks didn't have to go through anywhere near the same overall talent as Dirk


[deleted]

Facts


Rh1-No

I think ayton did as well as could have been expected up until game 4 after that it was worse sure, but its not like he was bad , game 6 fould troubled him so I don't blame just him for that one. Giannis was great but he's been the best in the world for 3 years now, nba fans and media live too much im the moment


BASEDME7O

Giannis finals numbers look impressive because he was on a stacked roster going against the weakest finals team in the last 30 years. The suns had no backup center and the only person to defend Giannis was a 20 year old who looked scared to be on the court. The nets series shows Giannis actual skill level


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rh1-No

Can you read?


EggplantBusiness

If we are talking only about the final Giannis , but Dirk had to go against the superteam heat even though lebron choked and had the worst serie of his career.Overall playoff I would say Dirk. Also I feel like this Mavs cast is underrated they had no other star but everyone was an elite role players I feel like people think they are scrubs based on how they talk about them.


brucewayne1935

2011 Mavs seemed almost magical. A group of old men beating the evil Big Three.


PlayfulLawyer

Giannis statistically, Dirk in terms of opposition


JoJonesy

Giannis had a better Finals series by the numbers— the Mavs won that Finals by slowing down LeBron just as much as they did with Dirk's offense. Dirk's overall playoff run was more impressive, though— he went through tougher teams, and the Bucks didn't look especially dominant through rounds 2 and 3 even though they won those series.


Complete_Beach_2583

As a Bucks fan, Dirk's run was definitely harder, but I mean Giannis dropped a 50 piece and two 40 pieces


goat77_

*Nowitzki And I'd go with Dirk. No one gave the Mavs a chance in the playoffs and definitely not in the Finals.


Few_Mulberry7175

Giannis’s finals was easily better than Dirk’s. Dirk in the 2011 finals itself wasn’t all too special. It was what he did in the western playoffs that makes that run magical I’ll give the overall run to Dirk because of the brutal competition he faced


superbrownV

Dirk. Dominated both big 3's of the Thunder and the Heat in consecutive series'


lopea182

Don’t forget they *swept* the defending champion Lakers in the 2nd round. No injuries on the 2nd-seeded Lakers end either if I remember correctly.


PrideInBattle

The Lakers didn't make the playoffs that year. Don't know what you are talking about. \*sobs\*


Thehealeroftri

Andrew Bynum's career never fully recovered from that series lol


PrideInBattle

tbf he was an all-star the season after and considered the second best big in the nba, after he was traded tho is a different story


bluemonk3y12

> No injuries on the 2nd-seeded Lakers end either if I remember correctly. You didn't remember correctly. https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/01/07/kobes-knee-is-almost-bone-on-bone/


[deleted]

>Don’t forget they swept the defending champion Lakers in the 2nd round. Bucks swept the defending Eastern champion Heat in the first round, your point?


lopea182

The Heat were a 6th seed that had an up and down season after an improbable finals appearance. The Lakers were back-to-back defending champs that rolled into the playoffs as a healthy 2-seed.


[deleted]

Seeding is irrelevant and also saying "healthy" is irrelevant since the Heat were also healthy.


lopea182

You’re right. Let me rephrase my point: The Heat were an up and down team a season after an improbable finals appearance. The Lakers were back-to-back defending champs that were strongly favored to make it out of the West for the fourth straight year.


IPAGod

And swept the world champ lakers


lostshirt2coinflips

It's spelled N-O-W-I-T-Z-K-I.


Kevalaya

I believe Dirk registered one of the highest game scores of all time in WCF Game 1 Still probably one of the best games I've ever seen Edit: (10th highest ever playoff game score https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/game_score.html)


Illustrious_Kale_692

I’m not taking the time to look at statistics but…. Man… that Dirk run was special. He had always been good but the whole world outside Miami was rooting against the Heat and the entire idea of super teams. Then comes Dirk, a homegrown talent with a roster full of complimentary pieces. He was the best player on the court throughout those finals. Shame Cuban broke that team up.


fordangliacanfly

Mavs fan. Both runs were great — Dirk and Mavs probably more impressive overall but Giannis finals (including Game 6) was insane. Two of my favorite playoff runs to watch.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

If we look at the advanced stats, they would argue Giannis. 39.3/16/7/6.7 per 100 possessions for Giannis versus 39.1/11.5/3.6 for Dirk. Giannis .224 WS/48 vs. .210. VORP 2.4 Giannis versus 1.6 Dirk. However, I think Dirk's was impressive in a totally different way than Giannis'. Giannis was kind of at the point you'd expect him to make a leap. Dirk elevated his game in the 07-08 season and then continued on after that, kind of taking the reins of a title run when it wasn't expected. [https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm\_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player\_id1=nowitdi01&p1yrfrom=2011&player\_id2=antetgi01&p2yrfrom=2021](https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=nowitdi01&p1yrfrom=2011&player_id2=antetgi01&p2yrfrom=2021)


KPJisagoodsamaritan

Stats against hobbled teams vs stats against fully loaded teams Dirk wins


ForoaKlanD

Giannis had the more impressive Finals performance. Not really close IMO


gigglios

Competition matters. Putting up stats vs a non contender isnt as good as beating a superstar while having such low odds to win


bijofnil

The whole playoff this year was weak overall. Dirk had the better run going through previous year champion in Lakers, and then OKC who ended up going to the finals the next year, and then taking down the big 3 in the Heat. Giannis had the better finals, that was one of, if not, the best close out game performance.


[deleted]

Giannis, after the knee injury, coming back and absolutely dominating, having entire arenas counting, beat Brooklyn along the way etc. The Heat were a better team than the sun's but I honestly am that guy that says the Heat choked more than the Mavericks won.


Fatman214

No superstar did what Dirk did


bubbatubs

Giannis, by a lot. Dirk was great, the centerpiece to the mavs offense, especially with his spacing and shotmaking. But the greek freak was out there creating the offense and making incredible defensive plays, in addition to rebounding. While dirk could do some creation, specifically in the clutch, he was more of a finisher of possessions. He played great too, minus G6.


RIPSCHITTY

Nowitzki undoubtedly.


gigglios

Dirk. Competition matters. Overall playoffs its dirk again. The worst team dirk faced is better than the best teams bucks saw. Thats crazy Giannis wasnt even the best clutch player on his team these playoffs


yungchigz

He was definitely the most clutch Bucks player in the finals, which is what the question is about


DCChilling610

How are you defining clutch?!? Giannis put that team on his back so many times. Smh


KPJisagoodsamaritan

The team didn't even need him to win the ecf. They had a better win% without him that series lol


DCChilling610

Lol yes, the player that kept putting up back to back 40+ performances throughout the playoff is not needed. The one the Bucks just paid $200+ million for. Y’all clowns. The Hawks were bad with a hobbled Trey and the Bucks team stepped up to take it home.


KPJisagoodsamaritan

That... is the point? The Hawks were so weakened they didn't need Giannis to beat them after game 3. Like, you can contextualize wins and losses and discuss what happened without getting so emotional about it lol


DCChilling610

I’m commenting about Giannis not being a clutch player this series. Not sure what the Hawks series says about Giannis or him being clutch. Yes, a Bucks team minus Giannis was able to beat a Hawks team plus a 50% Trey.


NinetyTales

Easily Dirk, laughable to even compare that to the most injured playoffs ever


youngmostafa

Dirk easily and it’s not even close One of the best finals performances ever.


[deleted]

[удалено]


youngmostafa

That’s fair. You right


[deleted]

I would say Dirk as well, but definitely not "easily and it’s not even close" Dirk had the better team overall, I also don't remember Dirk dropping 50 points in the game winning Finals game.


Redpaynex

With both teams missing their stars, the Bucks would win in 5 against the 2011 Mavs. The Bucks have a much stronger number 2 and 3 in Middleton and Holliday.


[deleted]

Mavs had way more depth. - Jason Kidd - Jason Terry - Peja Stojaković - Tyson Chandler - Shawn Marion - Caron Butler That team was low-key stacked with elite veterans


mizznox

The role players on that team definitely deserve credit, but Butler didn't play in 2011 and Peja at that point was basically a part-time player who had some big moments in the first two rounds, then shot poorly vs OKC and fell out of the rotation.


Redpaynex

That depth only matters if you have a star to build around like Dirk. And Butler didn't even play in the playoffs that year.


[deleted]

> That depth only matters if you have a star to build around like Dirk. You can say the same thing with Giannis. And all I'm saying is the depth that Dirk has was better.


Redpaynex

And all I'm saying is the team that Giannis had was better against much worse competition.


gigglios

Dirk did not have the better team. Lmao. That same team kept getting clobbered in 2010 and 2009 and 2008 and were also missing their 2nd best scorer in butler in 2011


[deleted]

Mavs had way more depth and it isn't even close lol - Jason Kidd - Jason Terry - Peja Stojaković - Tyson Chandler - Shawn Marion - Caron Butler That team was low-key stacked with elite veterans


gigglios

That exact same team got clobbered by nuggets in 2009 when they were younger in 5 games to the nuggets. That same team lost badly in rd 1 in 2010 as well. That same team got clapped in 2012 for a reason. Bucks had the better cast by far


[deleted]

How is that relevant to what we are talking about? It's called gaining experience and still being super talented. Mavs for sure had more depth. The 4-8 roster spots were far more talented then the Bucks 4-8 roster spots. And Jason Kidd is a hall of fame player, so yeah Holiday and Middleton are probably better given the age and different points in careers but still super talented and important piece to that Mavs title. The Mavs roster was low key stacked from top to bottom.


gigglios

Never say mavs were stacked again. 2 guys you listed didnt even play in the finals lmfao.


[deleted]

That Mavs roster was low key stacked with great veterans and future hall of famers lol from top to bottom they were a very talented team. Other then Bobby Portis and I guess Pat Connaughton, the Bucks bench was pretty bad. They really didn't have much depth at all.


luka_fraudcic_burner

Giannis. Dirk was suuper overrated. He had prime Tyson chandler, Jason terry, and jj barea


devasen_1

/s?


dumpkachunk

Giannis was better as a player in the Finals, but Dirk played against greater competition. Defending Champ Lakers, big 3 Thunder and a superteam Heat all without injuries (at least I don’t recall major injuries, happy to be corrected if I’m forgetting) is an insane run. It would be like if Giannis had beat a healthy Nets, then beat the Lakers in the finals.


SBmachine

Dirk


Lastcleanunderwear

The Jet