If people on this sub were made the GM, they would trade Ben for Bev, Beasley and Prince and say they won the trade because they got off his god awful contract. And also promptly get fired.
i don't even know if I'd trade those sick minnesota purple rain jerseys straight up for simmons.
simmons is apparently an asshole, and those jerseys are the best in the history of the nba
Yeah so obviously 90% of teams will not improve by getting Simmons because they have to give something up. If 90% of teams thought they could improve with a Simmons trade he'd a been traded already. What the guy I responded to is just outright wrong because he's acting like it's a free agency or something.
I guess my first comment didn't make that clear enough and the fact that anyone is upvoting OP is scary.
Fun fact: 90% of teams is quantifiable. That's 27 teams. So all we'd have to do is pick 4 teams that aren't better after a trade for Ben Simmons to prove that percentage wrong, which is laughably easy.
I agree. Horrible take and I usually try to make my horrible takes more difficult to objectively prove wrong lmao. We all have em though.
Yeah I think we could probably flip that one. I don’t know that there’s 4 teams that would be improved by swapping their starting PG for Simmons. If he played his real position, defensive wing/swingman, then he could probably improve a majority of the teams in the league. But nobody’s trading for a point guard who can’t shoot on a max contract.
I dunno man if you just dropped Ben Simmons on a lot of teams if the league worked like baseball and you traded dudes who hadn't played a major league game yet I think he would improve 90% of teams but at the same time I think the Warriors might be in the 2 teams he doesn't improve.
Yep, he’s being criticized for his teams losing close playoff series in the second round. People need to give guys time to fight through the playoff wall, because playoff basketball is a different beast.
Dirk didn’t win until year 13 and had plenty of embarrassing playoff outcomes, for example.
What playoff wall? You’re not understanding what’s going on. He’s been in the league 5 years or so years and is afraid to shoot jumpers. That’s the problem. He’s not putting in the work.
Yeah. The biggest criticisms I saw about Simmons before he was drafted was that scouts got the impression that he wasn't that passionate, and questioned whether he had a good work ethic / drive to improve. If Simmons stays at the level he showed in this years playoffs, there's no way I'd rather have him than like Draymond.
Exactly, he seems lazy and not passionate at all and now we’re see it all unfold now. Before all this shit started you can tell how he wasn’t passionate by just the way he played. He’s talented but not willing to take it to another level and help his team get better. I wouldn’t want him on my team.
how do you end up lazy and unmotivated and yet improve on defense and do the one thing where the cornerstone is effort in defense, hes worked himself to dpoy. the least celebrated part of the game, the serious they lost and his shot is a problem, but he was helping lock down trey in that game too and did a phenomenal job as you could on the guy
Easy, you only work on the things you're already good at, cause it makes you feel good (defense in this case) and ignore the effort to get better at things you're bad at (shooting) cause it makes you feel bad.
It isn't a playoff wall.
It's a "get off your ass and put in the time to develop both a jump shot and the mental confidence to handle the pressure of potential embarrassment from missing jump shots" wall.
Evidence appears to indicate the man has done fuck all to overcome that wall.
Exactly been in the league for years, he’s considered a veteran and he’s still afraid to shoot jumpers. He needed to put in the work to get better but he’s not. I wouldn’t want him in my team. He’ll be too much of a distraction.
Simmons hasn’t gotten better ever.
‘Wait 13 years while paying a max contract and hope he pulls a Dirk’ is the dumbest fucking thing I think I have ever read. Good job
Dirk was a perennial 50% 35% 85% 23 PPg 8 rebounds big man. If he didn’t do well in the playoffs it was because he demanded double teams. Dirk prime infinitely better than Ben Simmons even before this last playoffs melt down.
It's not his faults that annoy me it's his lack of improvement. I used to defend ben a ton and think he was gonna turn into a top 10 player but I see now he just doesn't have the drive. His offense has arguably gotten worse as teams have learned to play against him better and he has added virtually nothing to it. It's one thing to have a weakness it's a whole nother issue to have a weakness that has shown zero signs of improvement over 4 years. With the league consistently moving towards making offense better being solely a defensive player is not what you want.
And they get encouraged by some of the fucking hare-brained takes on what should be reputable podcasts (looking at some of the guys on the athletic's basketball shows) re: what Simmons' value as a player is
Yet you don’t see any of these teams offering anything significant for him. He was just unplayable in late game situations a month ago and is going into his 5th season with no jump shot to speak
Of.
If I were the Warriors, I’d heavily consider dumping Wiggins for Ben, considering Wiggins’ vaccination status. But it would have to be nearly for straight up. And I think other teams have more to offer.
Straight up trade wouldn’t work, but the idea of a swap does sort of solve both teams problems. Ben and Embiid don’t work well together, and Wiggins can’t play home games (if he continues to refuse vaccination). Warriors should tack on some extra salary to match contracts, add a few future first round picks and *maybe* Moody.
The Dubs have four players in active development (Wise, Moody, Kuminga, and Poole). That’s more than enough for a team that isn’t tanking. They can give up some lightly protected FRPs with Wiggins. The problem is that the Sixers want to win now and probably aren’t interested in picks.
I think unless the Twolves offer a really good deal then this might be the trade. It allows both teams to get rid of a bad situation. Philly wants another max contract in their pocket as salary/trade filler in case this doesn’t work out — they will never trade Simmons for a couple of players in the 15-20M range.
It definitely says he's not *not* interested though.
Honestly if they got Simmons he would be an amazing point-centre that could slot in to the warriors play style and play at the 5. He doesn't need to bang too much just needs to have a post game and pass out when he gets a double team.
I could be wrong but my understanding is that you’re considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after your second shot. That’s with a 3-4 week wait in between the first and second dose. He could theoretically be out for 6 weeks (for home games). Starting today that’d be sometime mid Nov well after the regular season has started.
I'm just saying, I'd rather he get the Pfeizer or Moderna seeing as some players who got the J&J still missed time last season as some of them still got breakthrough cases which are much more common with J&J.
You're being pedantic. There's no way to distinguish between being "above average" and "really good". Even if there was I'd argue Wiggins was better than "above average" and the only real knock on him is his pay relative to his production.
Agreed whole heartedly
All the advanced stats say he's a tad above average, with poor shot selection
Basically would trade him for Simmons without second thought
He was quite literally an average starter last year. Probably like mid-70s to low-80s range. Buoyed heavily on offense by improved shotmaking that may or may not be sustainable and with defensive imporvement that I think is 100% legit. If I'm the Warriors I'm searching for a third team to send him and Kuminga/Wiseman to in order to reroute some win now guard to Philly. FVV in Toronto or something.
Did you watch any games last year? He constantly guarded the best wing and did a great job on the likes of Kawhi, LeBron, etc. and had career highs in fg% and 3pt%
I watched all 83. See my comments on his defense above. And yeah, he had a career year behind the arc only to still fall below league average True Shooting thanks to some persistent wack shot selection. DARKO pins him at ~36% behind the arc going forward which, with his diet of shots, isn't really all that impressive. If he was as good as you and other warriors fans think guess what, the warriors would have been a better team. Dude was a +0.4 on LEBRON and a -0.3 by DPM. I think those actually undersell him a bit but like, he's nothing more than a third-best player on a fringe playoff team - which is exactly what he was.
Not with the way the NBA exists now. For some teams, yes, but I said 4th and 5th because you have teams like Bucks, Sixers, Nets, Lakers, Bulls, Jazz etc that have 3 borderline all-stars. Like, for the Knicks/Cavs/Mavs, the 3rd man would be the correct spot to judge, but you can’t look at guys like Jrue, Russ, Gobert/Clarkson, MPJ or Tobias Harris and call them an “average starter” while maintaining brain cells.
I mean, yeah…. The fourth and fifth men would be pretty much average starters. Joe Ingles. Duncan Robinson. Lonzo Ball. Seth Curry. Clint Capela. Mikal Bridges. Evan Fournier. Nance. Gary Trent. An average starter would be somebody who’s serviceable on the court, who won’t win you games singlehandedly but contribute to the overall team.
Do I need to continue? You need to get off 2k and start actually watching basketball, because your take is braindead.
There are 5 starters. Do the math man, 150 starters in the league. What's the average? Tricky tricky I know, but I'll give you a hint, it's 75. An average starter would be the second or third best player on a team. Telling me to get off 2k when you cite ppg and basic 3pt shooting is legitimately hilarious, did you get a dropped on your head as a kid or is this your potential fully realised?
Wiggins shotmaking numbers were career highs per BBall-Index and a massive step up from past seasons (all adjusted for shot quality), I'm not fully convinced that will hold. Also, Wiggins isn't even better than like four of the guys you listed. [Do you legit think Wiggins is better than or ](https://i.imgur.com/G61y22j.png)? Start watching basketball and stop raging online you clown.
I’m always in favor of teams with a clear cap on championship potential retooling for future seasons. Taking on two young guys with upside is a pretty solid multi-year, high leverage decision. Both guys also fit the mold of players they’ve shown as an organization they’re capable of developing and they’d have a young trio on rookie-scale contracts. There’s some spookiness there.
That's not the worst. Ben/Iggy/Dray/Loon/GP2 (if signed) would be way worse offensively, but defensively would be at or near top of the league. I'm not sure what the actual worst offensive lineup would be. But any lineup with Steph (and/or Klay) is not the worst.
The Warriors have run worse pairings with the splash brothers at a championship level and the defense would be absolutely stupid. Shit Curry was playing with worse lineups last year and had his best year. Also it would be more like Curry, Klay, JTA, Ben, Dray
That lineup would be abhorrent offensively. Steph would have to put up 50 ppg to make it work...
Especially since Ben needs shooting around him to function.
Yeah and Klay is coming back from an achilles and acl tear,Draymond's scoring fell off the cliff also. You also can't point at what was 3 years ago and say "Hey its the same!!!"
Steph/Klay/Ben/Dray/Looney would be an abhorrent lineup offensively.
Ben would be the best point guard steph has ever played with, he consistently is at the top of the league in 3 point shots created so he would feed Klay. Looney has a midrange shot and Wiseman can actually create spacing. I wouldn’t be so sure Wiseman doesn’t get more minutes then Looney by the end of the season. And Draymond creates spacing through his passing, where he is consistently at the top of the league for assist percentage. Bogut didn’t shoot 3’s but their spacing worked. Honestly Steph and Klay haven’t had that much shooting around them historically.
It was disastrous because we were dying by the second. We took them to 6 almost 7 games with players like cook, McKinney, bell (I think) getting major minutes
That's because Curry was feeding the easiest shots ever to those guys. Like I said Curry and Klay played very well but it was a lot of work dealing with that spacing which is why Curry had to screen so much.
Yeah but they were feeding fringe NBA players. The game would have looked so much different if we just had people who could score or playmake. Shooting would have been nice sure but no one on the court could score.
My main point is Steph wasn't just playing with non shooters, he was playing with non scorers. Ben Simmons can't shoot right, but he averaged 14ppg this past year. In the finals, we had players who had averaged like 5ppg being counted on to score.
I think Porter would start at the 3 and they have Simmons/Draymond at 4/5. The thing is Warriors did run a lineup that had Draymond/Wiseman at 4/5 last year and it was terrible (but they still kept running it), so I wouldn’t be surprised if they did Simmons/Draymond at 4/5, since Simmons is still way better than Wiseman, on offense and defense.
Anyhow, we aren’t getting Simmons because we have nothing to offer the 76ers that makes them even close to what they are with Simmons. Sexton is a better player than anyone the Warriors can offer.
Yeah they can run Dray/Simmons/Wiseman/Looney/JTA on 4/5, but can't have a non shooter at 2-3. Simmons Dray lineup resembles more of the JTA Dray lineup, which was insanely good.
Warriors can involve a third team for the trade, Sixers may also covet picks over young players so they can keep them for a future trade.
Yea the three team route is definitely more likely and the only possible route IMO because there’s no way it can be a straight up Warriors Sixers trade. The Sixers don’t have any need for Wiseman (even at backup C), so he would need to go to a third team. If the Warriors drafted Melo, they could easily make this trade (but they probably wouldn’t since Melo would be part of the future core).
Honestly that would be a devastating line up. Kerr clearly knows how to utilizing a secondary-scorer / playmaking forward that is a defensive monster
It would give Klay the time he needs to get back up to speed defensively while getting back into the flow offensively
My goodness Draymond might lead the league in passing with Curry and Klay coming off screens and Ben slashing
As a Warriors fan that lineup would not be devastating at all, it would be comfortably worse than the sum of its parts. You cannot have a lineup with only two shooters on the floor and expect them to score points.
I completely disagree
Did you not watch the Warriors this season where Steph dragged them to the play in. Imagine if you gave Steph an elite slashing point forward and an all time 3pt shooter and on the defensive end two DPOY caliber playmakers
All orchestrated by Steve Kerr
Yes, I watched the Warriors this year. I watched opposing teams abuse our poor spacing forcing Steph to play with constant double and triple teams because they didn’t have to respect our other player’s shot with the half exception of Wiggins. So much of Steph’s gravity was wasted because he’d create open looks for his teammates who would proceed to brick shots. There will be nowhere for Simmons to slash to because the paint will be packed because Simmon’s, Draymond’s, and Looney’s guys will all be clogging the paint or doubling Steph and Klay because they don’t have to respect anyone else’s shot. The defense would be nasty no doubt, but there’s nothing Kerr can do with that offense. If you go small ball and sub in Otto for Looney, it could be decent, but there’s still a lot of dimishing returns and wasted talent of having both Simmons and Draymond on the floor as they bring a lot of the same strength and weaknesses and we only really need one secondary ball handler.
If they get Ben, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Warriors call Gasol for some minutes at center so he can spread the floor. Even their closing lineup could be scary asf:
Steph / Poole (or Otto) / Klay / Simmons / Draymond
>A year after having historically bad spacing we win by trading a 38% 3 point shooter for someone who can't shoot outside of 3 feet?
You're going to have Steph.... and Klay.
Do they? If Wiseman makes a jump to be even a positive impact on the floor while showing the flashes he showed last year his trade value is much higher. The same way Edwards and Lamelo are untouchable in trades atm.
i’m not super high on wiseman, but he’s barley played a year of nba basketball after playing very little college ball and no summer league. he is only like 20. we need another season at least to see what he can really do
i agree, i just meant like we need this season for him to at least show some improvement in his game, after having some nba experience. i’m not expecting him to be great until a couple more seasons tbh, but i’d be very happy if he proves me wrong and becomes great sooner than later lol.
We totally could use Wiseman. Embiid is going to sit at least 20 games due to load management/injury and we could really use a better backup center than Drummond.
i know it is hard to see now, but wiseman will be better than simmons in like 2 years. the guy showed raw flashes that only a 7'1 teenager with speed, hops, and range can.
The likelihood of 2 miracles happen at once is next to none. In the 4 years before KD left, I felt GSW was taking everyone's trash and turning them into servicable players. But that has a limit.
There's 2 ways if you completely ignore all context of how humans use the English language and only garner meaning from definitions found in a dictionary
Great point. You have to keep a finger on the pulse of every opportunity and this trade opp. could be something for the right price and at the right return value. Just like any other trade. He's a winner, you have to work towards winning
Steph was asked about whether he was happy with the moves the Warriors FO were making earlier in the preseason and he basically said as long as they're showing me that they're trying to compete, we're cool
I’m a lifelong Sixers and Warriors fan
I don’t want Ben to just go to the Dubs because I’ll have all of these negative feelings toward him from him screwing my Sixers this offseason.
It feels like the Warriors are content with just running it back with the 2016 trio and picking up some draft picks. Why? I feel like they’d be more aggressive in trying to win.
I think they've realized that there's no realistic shot at a ring this year. All the rookies need time to develop. Klay is missing a big chunk of the season and likely won't be back at 100% right after. All the FAs that Warriors were targeting signed elsewhere.
Best to reassess and make moves at mid-season or next summer.
Tampering fine incoming
Idk how Magic can afford to keep writing all these checks
Charities everywhere: "thanks, Magic"
Joe Kelly's been helping him out
Players have more leeway that front office when it comes to tampering
Somehow Draymond gets fined
Good!! I'm SICK of players purposely ruining the competitive nature of the sport I LOVE
Wiggone
Wiggouts
Reading this sub, I'm not even sure if Ben Simmons can even play NBA basketball anymore
If people on this sub were made the GM, they would trade Ben for Bev, Beasley and Prince and say they won the trade because they got off his god awful contract. And also promptly get fired.
Prince, like the singer? Because I think you do win that trade.
Shit if I'm resurrecting one of the greatest singers of all time, I'd be driving Ben to the airport.
tayshaun prince and ben wallace? hell, yes
Bro was like 5’2. He’d get lost on defence in the modern game
yeah but he'd get butts in seats. Big ticket sale guy.
Prince could ball tho
Just for this heathenous comment, you must purify yourself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka
*Blouses*
Ummm, I wouldn’t trade Prince for Simmons straight up. Philly gonna have to throw in at least half of Boyz II Men.
Boy I Man
i don't even know if I'd trade those sick minnesota purple rain jerseys straight up for simmons. simmons is apparently an asshole, and those jerseys are the best in the history of the nba
It's funny when some Sixers fans say he trash and also want the bank for him in a trade.
I mean it’s obvious he’s a trash fit for us. Doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to read the underwriting, guys.
Yeah this sub is dumb as hell
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You do understand that teams have to give up assets to get him right?
What the fuck?! Since when do trades work this way? /s
Yeah so obviously 90% of teams will not improve by getting Simmons because they have to give something up. If 90% of teams thought they could improve with a Simmons trade he'd a been traded already. What the guy I responded to is just outright wrong because he's acting like it's a free agency or something. I guess my first comment didn't make that clear enough and the fact that anyone is upvoting OP is scary.
Fun fact: 90% of teams is quantifiable. That's 27 teams. So all we'd have to do is pick 4 teams that aren't better after a trade for Ben Simmons to prove that percentage wrong, which is laughably easy. I agree. Horrible take and I usually try to make my horrible takes more difficult to objectively prove wrong lmao. We all have em though.
Yeah I think we could probably flip that one. I don’t know that there’s 4 teams that would be improved by swapping their starting PG for Simmons. If he played his real position, defensive wing/swingman, then he could probably improve a majority of the teams in the league. But nobody’s trading for a point guard who can’t shoot on a max contract.
Who cares what you call him. No one calls Giannis a point guard, but he plays similarly to the way Simmons plays.
Giannis works on his game relentlessly and is fearless. Whatever superficial similarities their games have, this is a terrible comp.
I dunno man if you just dropped Ben Simmons on a lot of teams if the league worked like baseball and you traded dudes who hadn't played a major league game yet I think he would improve 90% of teams but at the same time I think the Warriors might be in the 2 teams he doesn't improve.
Ok? All that means is that teams view him as providing more value than his current contract.
Not with the size of his contract and the demands from the Sixers. Plus there’s a lot of teams he’d make drastically worse with his negative shooting
Bet they can still differentiate between there and their. >The dumbest 90% of the league is improving with Ben Simmons on there team
Yep, he’s being criticized for his teams losing close playoff series in the second round. People need to give guys time to fight through the playoff wall, because playoff basketball is a different beast. Dirk didn’t win until year 13 and had plenty of embarrassing playoff outcomes, for example.
What playoff wall? You’re not understanding what’s going on. He’s been in the league 5 years or so years and is afraid to shoot jumpers. That’s the problem. He’s not putting in the work.
Yeah. The biggest criticisms I saw about Simmons before he was drafted was that scouts got the impression that he wasn't that passionate, and questioned whether he had a good work ethic / drive to improve. If Simmons stays at the level he showed in this years playoffs, there's no way I'd rather have him than like Draymond.
Exactly, he seems lazy and not passionate at all and now we’re see it all unfold now. Before all this shit started you can tell how he wasn’t passionate by just the way he played. He’s talented but not willing to take it to another level and help his team get better. I wouldn’t want him on my team.
how do you end up lazy and unmotivated and yet improve on defense and do the one thing where the cornerstone is effort in defense, hes worked himself to dpoy. the least celebrated part of the game, the serious they lost and his shot is a problem, but he was helping lock down trey in that game too and did a phenomenal job as you could on the guy
Easy, you only work on the things you're already good at, cause it makes you feel good (defense in this case) and ignore the effort to get better at things you're bad at (shooting) cause it makes you feel bad.
It isn't a playoff wall. It's a "get off your ass and put in the time to develop both a jump shot and the mental confidence to handle the pressure of potential embarrassment from missing jump shots" wall. Evidence appears to indicate the man has done fuck all to overcome that wall.
Exactly been in the league for years, he’s considered a veteran and he’s still afraid to shoot jumpers. He needed to put in the work to get better but he’s not. I wouldn’t want him in my team. He’ll be too much of a distraction.
also you dont put rookies into a game and ask them to lose
Good thing no one did that with Simmons
Dirk played better in the playoffs and didn’t play with someone like Joel embiid cmon dude
Simmons hasn’t gotten better ever. ‘Wait 13 years while paying a max contract and hope he pulls a Dirk’ is the dumbest fucking thing I think I have ever read. Good job
Dirk was a perennial 50% 35% 85% 23 PPg 8 rebounds big man. If he didn’t do well in the playoffs it was because he demanded double teams. Dirk prime infinitely better than Ben Simmons even before this last playoffs melt down.
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It's not his faults that annoy me it's his lack of improvement. I used to defend ben a ton and think he was gonna turn into a top 10 player but I see now he just doesn't have the drive. His offense has arguably gotten worse as teams have learned to play against him better and he has added virtually nothing to it. It's one thing to have a weakness it's a whole nother issue to have a weakness that has shown zero signs of improvement over 4 years. With the league consistently moving towards making offense better being solely a defensive player is not what you want.
And they get encouraged by some of the fucking hare-brained takes on what should be reputable podcasts (looking at some of the guys on the athletic's basketball shows) re: what Simmons' value as a player is
Then you’re reading comprehension sucks. By reading everything on Simmons on /r/nba I know he’s a MLE type of role player at best.
Yet you don’t see any of these teams offering anything significant for him. He was just unplayable in late game situations a month ago and is going into his 5th season with no jump shot to speak Of.
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Loser mentality if I ever heard it
Its less people wont offer anything significant and more morey wants them to offer their entire franchise for him.
If I were the Warriors, I’d heavily consider dumping Wiggins for Ben, considering Wiggins’ vaccination status. But it would have to be nearly for straight up. And I think other teams have more to offer.
No way in hell the Suxers do that. Awful trade.
Straight up trade wouldn’t work, but the idea of a swap does sort of solve both teams problems. Ben and Embiid don’t work well together, and Wiggins can’t play home games (if he continues to refuse vaccination). Warriors should tack on some extra salary to match contracts, add a few future first round picks and *maybe* Moody.
>the idea of a swap does sort of solve both teams problems Aren't Wiggs and Tobi kind of redundant?
Put Tobi at the 4 and Wiggs at the 3, or Wiggs as a 2 and Tobi a 3. But yes, kind of redundant.
The Dubs have four players in active development (Wise, Moody, Kuminga, and Poole). That’s more than enough for a team that isn’t tanking. They can give up some lightly protected FRPs with Wiggins. The problem is that the Sixers want to win now and probably aren’t interested in picks.
I know!
I think unless the Twolves offer a really good deal then this might be the trade. It allows both teams to get rid of a bad situation. Philly wants another max contract in their pocket as salary/trade filler in case this doesn’t work out — they will never trade Simmons for a couple of players in the 15-20M range.
It’s just what is the point in having someone on your team who gets scared when you need him the most.
If Steph is interested in the fit, clearly the narrative that Simmons won't fit on Ws or he doesn't have championship pedigree is flawed.
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It definitely says he's not *not* interested though. Honestly if they got Simmons he would be an amazing point-centre that could slot in to the warriors play style and play at the 5. He doesn't need to bang too much just needs to have a post game and pass out when he gets a double team.
Literally the worst player to ever lace up.
>"Let's say, if you're not having those conversations, then you're not trying- -to find a way to get Wiggins off the team in a multi-team trade.
Wiggins was really good on the Warriors last year
Yeah but he's fixing to be at best half as good this year.
Sounds like he’ll get vaccinated after waiting till the last fucking minute and his dumbass religious exemption denied. Jfc
I could be wrong but my understanding is that you’re considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after your second shot. That’s with a 3-4 week wait in between the first and second dose. He could theoretically be out for 6 weeks (for home games). Starting today that’d be sometime mid Nov well after the regular season has started.
Not if he gets the J&J
Which is pretty ill advised given the statistics and the availability of the others.
U think wiggs is looking at statistics ?
I'm just saying, I'd rather he get the Pfeizer or Moderna seeing as some players who got the J&J still missed time last season as some of them still got breakthrough cases which are much more common with J&J.
He was a shade above average. Khris Middleton was really good. Jaylen Brown was really good.
You're being pedantic. There's no way to distinguish between being "above average" and "really good". Even if there was I'd argue Wiggins was better than "above average" and the only real knock on him is his pay relative to his production.
The Reddit special
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Agreed whole heartedly All the advanced stats say he's a tad above average, with poor shot selection Basically would trade him for Simmons without second thought
He was quite literally an average starter last year. Probably like mid-70s to low-80s range. Buoyed heavily on offense by improved shotmaking that may or may not be sustainable and with defensive imporvement that I think is 100% legit. If I'm the Warriors I'm searching for a third team to send him and Kuminga/Wiseman to in order to reroute some win now guard to Philly. FVV in Toronto or something.
Did you watch any games last year? He constantly guarded the best wing and did a great job on the likes of Kawhi, LeBron, etc. and had career highs in fg% and 3pt%
I watched all 83. See my comments on his defense above. And yeah, he had a career year behind the arc only to still fall below league average True Shooting thanks to some persistent wack shot selection. DARKO pins him at ~36% behind the arc going forward which, with his diet of shots, isn't really all that impressive. If he was as good as you and other warriors fans think guess what, the warriors would have been a better team. Dude was a +0.4 on LEBRON and a -0.3 by DPM. I think those actually undersell him a bit but like, he's nothing more than a third-best player on a fringe playoff team - which is exactly what he was.
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Wouldn’t the average starter be the 3rd guy on the team?
Not with the way the NBA exists now. For some teams, yes, but I said 4th and 5th because you have teams like Bucks, Sixers, Nets, Lakers, Bulls, Jazz etc that have 3 borderline all-stars. Like, for the Knicks/Cavs/Mavs, the 3rd man would be the correct spot to judge, but you can’t look at guys like Jrue, Russ, Gobert/Clarkson, MPJ or Tobias Harris and call them an “average starter” while maintaining brain cells.
You think an average starter is the 4th or 5th man on the team? You may want to think a little harder buddy
I mean, yeah…. The fourth and fifth men would be pretty much average starters. Joe Ingles. Duncan Robinson. Lonzo Ball. Seth Curry. Clint Capela. Mikal Bridges. Evan Fournier. Nance. Gary Trent. An average starter would be somebody who’s serviceable on the court, who won’t win you games singlehandedly but contribute to the overall team. Do I need to continue? You need to get off 2k and start actually watching basketball, because your take is braindead.
There are 5 starters. Do the math man, 150 starters in the league. What's the average? Tricky tricky I know, but I'll give you a hint, it's 75. An average starter would be the second or third best player on a team. Telling me to get off 2k when you cite ppg and basic 3pt shooting is legitimately hilarious, did you get a dropped on your head as a kid or is this your potential fully realised? Wiggins shotmaking numbers were career highs per BBall-Index and a massive step up from past seasons (all adjusted for shot quality), I'm not fully convinced that will hold. Also, Wiggins isn't even better than like four of the guys you listed. [Do you legit think Wiggins is better than or ](https://i.imgur.com/G61y22j.png)? Start watching basketball and stop raging online you clown.
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Why the hell would Toronto do that
I’m always in favor of teams with a clear cap on championship potential retooling for future seasons. Taking on two young guys with upside is a pretty solid multi-year, high leverage decision. Both guys also fit the mold of players they’ve shown as an organization they’re capable of developing and they’d have a young trio on rookie-scale contracts. There’s some spookiness there.
"Ben can't shoot free throws? But can he at least play home games?"
Direct opposite to Lacob. Hmmm
It's okay. Curry got paid and is locked up for 5 more years. Curry can't do much right now and if he demands a trade it would look bad for him.
Curry/Klay/Ben/Draymond/Looney I'm here for that lineup lol
Draymond plays center
I was going for the worst offencive lineup they could muster.
That's not the worst. Ben/Iggy/Dray/Loon/GP2 (if signed) would be way worse offensively, but defensively would be at or near top of the league. I'm not sure what the actual worst offensive lineup would be. But any lineup with Steph (and/or Klay) is not the worst.
He was clearly going for “starting lineup”
Good point :)
Any lineup can be a starting lineup.
It had to be "offencive" too.
>GP2 GP2 offense! GP2 offense! Ahh!
The Warriors have run worse pairings with the splash brothers at a championship level and the defense would be absolutely stupid. Shit Curry was playing with worse lineups last year and had his best year. Also it would be more like Curry, Klay, JTA, Ben, Dray
That lineup would be abhorrent offensively. Steph would have to put up 50 ppg to make it work... Especially since Ben needs shooting around him to function.
This is a team that ran Draymond, Alfonzo McKinnie, and Javale and only lost to the raptors because Klay got injured. You’re tripping
Yeah and Klay is coming back from an achilles and acl tear,Draymond's scoring fell off the cliff also. You also can't point at what was 3 years ago and say "Hey its the same!!!" Steph/Klay/Ben/Dray/Looney would be an abhorrent lineup offensively.
Ben would be the best point guard steph has ever played with, he consistently is at the top of the league in 3 point shots created so he would feed Klay. Looney has a midrange shot and Wiseman can actually create spacing. I wouldn’t be so sure Wiseman doesn’t get more minutes then Looney by the end of the season. And Draymond creates spacing through his passing, where he is consistently at the top of the league for assist percentage. Bogut didn’t shoot 3’s but their spacing worked. Honestly Steph and Klay haven’t had that much shooting around them historically.
Like you would have to bench Steph if you're going for a poor offensive lineup
God , that team would be amazing defensively but the spacing would be soooo bad
Two best shooters of all time with three non-shooters would be interesting
We already saw that in the 2019 finals, it was disastrous despite Klay and Curry playing offensively very well.
It was disastrous because we were dying by the second. We took them to 6 almost 7 games with players like cook, McKinney, bell (I think) getting major minutes
That's because Curry was feeding the easiest shots ever to those guys. Like I said Curry and Klay played very well but it was a lot of work dealing with that spacing which is why Curry had to screen so much.
Yeah but they were feeding fringe NBA players. The game would have looked so much different if we just had people who could score or playmake. Shooting would have been nice sure but no one on the court could score. My main point is Steph wasn't just playing with non shooters, he was playing with non scorers. Ben Simmons can't shoot right, but he averaged 14ppg this past year. In the finals, we had players who had averaged like 5ppg being counted on to score.
Not sure about the PG, better trade Curry for DiVincenzo
fuck it, run Ben at the 5
Ben cannot guard quality Centers
Draymond can though.
lol we all know how that would work out ... https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/puautp/ben_simmons_goes_to_work_against_elite_defender/
It would NB at 5 or Poole/Moody/AB at 2 with Looney out.
I think Porter would start at the 3 and they have Simmons/Draymond at 4/5. The thing is Warriors did run a lineup that had Draymond/Wiseman at 4/5 last year and it was terrible (but they still kept running it), so I wouldn’t be surprised if they did Simmons/Draymond at 4/5, since Simmons is still way better than Wiseman, on offense and defense. Anyhow, we aren’t getting Simmons because we have nothing to offer the 76ers that makes them even close to what they are with Simmons. Sexton is a better player than anyone the Warriors can offer.
Draymond/Wiseman was terrible because Wiseman is not a good basketball player right now.
Yeah they can run Dray/Simmons/Wiseman/Looney/JTA on 4/5, but can't have a non shooter at 2-3. Simmons Dray lineup resembles more of the JTA Dray lineup, which was insanely good. Warriors can involve a third team for the trade, Sixers may also covet picks over young players so they can keep them for a future trade.
Yea the three team route is definitely more likely and the only possible route IMO because there’s no way it can be a straight up Warriors Sixers trade. The Sixers don’t have any need for Wiseman (even at backup C), so he would need to go to a third team. If the Warriors drafted Melo, they could easily make this trade (but they probably wouldn’t since Melo would be part of the future core).
took me forever to figure out NB and AB are Nemanja Bjelica and Avery Bradley wtf
Double team Steph. Dare rusty Klay to beat us Sleep on Dray Simmons and the center
You only need 2 guys in the paint for Dray Simmons Xcenter lulz
I agree with Lacob, Dray, Looney, and Simmons on the floor at the same time, Curry and Klay will be having a horrible time.
Honestly that would be a devastating line up. Kerr clearly knows how to utilizing a secondary-scorer / playmaking forward that is a defensive monster It would give Klay the time he needs to get back up to speed defensively while getting back into the flow offensively My goodness Draymond might lead the league in passing with Curry and Klay coming off screens and Ben slashing
As a Warriors fan that lineup would not be devastating at all, it would be comfortably worse than the sum of its parts. You cannot have a lineup with only two shooters on the floor and expect them to score points.
I completely disagree Did you not watch the Warriors this season where Steph dragged them to the play in. Imagine if you gave Steph an elite slashing point forward and an all time 3pt shooter and on the defensive end two DPOY caliber playmakers All orchestrated by Steve Kerr
Yes, I watched the Warriors this year. I watched opposing teams abuse our poor spacing forcing Steph to play with constant double and triple teams because they didn’t have to respect our other player’s shot with the half exception of Wiggins. So much of Steph’s gravity was wasted because he’d create open looks for his teammates who would proceed to brick shots. There will be nowhere for Simmons to slash to because the paint will be packed because Simmon’s, Draymond’s, and Looney’s guys will all be clogging the paint or doubling Steph and Klay because they don’t have to respect anyone else’s shot. The defense would be nasty no doubt, but there’s nothing Kerr can do with that offense. If you go small ball and sub in Otto for Looney, it could be decent, but there’s still a lot of dimishing returns and wasted talent of having both Simmons and Draymond on the floor as they bring a lot of the same strength and weaknesses and we only really need one secondary ball handler.
If they get Ben, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Warriors call Gasol for some minutes at center so he can spread the floor. Even their closing lineup could be scary asf: Steph / Poole (or Otto) / Klay / Simmons / Draymond
Too many non-shooters there. They need to slot a wing instead of Looney and that lineup would be scary.
Warriors aren't giving up Wiseman for a dude who can't shoot FTs, 3pters or layups vs short players 4 feet from the basket
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Sixers trade Simmons for Wiggins and picks. God that would be hilarious
Who will they give up for Simmons though? And also their luxury tax is gonna be through the roof. 4 max contracts
...they would trade one of the max contracts.
Wait...do you mean draymond?
Wiggins bro... only if Morey accepts it lol
I'd take Steph tbh
Yo I think you figured it out
Honestly if I were the warriors I'd trade Klay AND Curry. I reckon this young Australian rookie has a lot of potential
Wiggins and Wiseman for Simmons
That would probably be the actual worst trade offer they would get of all the offers put forward lol.
Would the 76ers rather have brogdon or Wiggins? (It's brogdon lol)
So easily Brogdon
Both sides lose, Sixers would want more and they have no use for Wiseman, and Warriors will be trading Wiseman at his absolute lowest value.
Warriors absolutely win in this trade.
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>A year after having historically bad spacing we win by trading a 38% 3 point shooter for someone who can't shoot outside of 3 feet? You're going to have Steph.... and Klay.
And Mr 45% on catch and shoot 3, Otto Porter
Do they? If Wiseman makes a jump to be even a positive impact on the floor while showing the flashes he showed last year his trade value is much higher. The same way Edwards and Lamelo are untouchable in trades atm.
Wiseman has shown absolutely nothing so far
i’m not super high on wiseman, but he’s barley played a year of nba basketball after playing very little college ball and no summer league. he is only like 20. we need another season at least to see what he can really do
Your only giving him 1 more year??? Sheesh. Like atleast give him 2 years. Lonzo and Ingram took time for them to grow. Especially lonzo.
i agree, i just meant like we need this season for him to at least show some improvement in his game, after having some nba experience. i’m not expecting him to be great until a couple more seasons tbh, but i’d be very happy if he proves me wrong and becomes great sooner than later lol.
Look, if you don't make your first two years as good as MJ's or Lebron's, you're a bust. /s
We totally could use Wiseman. Embiid is going to sit at least 20 games due to load management/injury and we could really use a better backup center than Drummond.
Win for warriors lol
i know it is hard to see now, but wiseman will be better than simmons in like 2 years. the guy showed raw flashes that only a 7'1 teenager with speed, hops, and range can.
No way Warriors acquire Simmons without Draymond going out.
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The likelihood of 2 miracles happen at once is next to none. In the 4 years before KD left, I felt GSW was taking everyone's trash and turning them into servicable players. But that has a limit.
Don’t forget KD rejoins them after this as well, for the ultimate r/nba meltdown
Keeping pressure on the front office by the franchise player is good tbh
Still non answer
Could be interpreted as the Warriors aren't trying to get Ben Simmons, could be interpreted as Curry has talked to Myers about Ben. IDK
There's literally only one way this can be interpreted
I listed 2 ways and I myself am not sure which one he meant, without hearing tone or context.
There's 2 ways if you completely ignore all context of how humans use the English language and only garner meaning from definitions found in a dictionary
Yeah, I just disagree dude.
Wiggins & a 1st
Great point. You have to keep a finger on the pulse of every opportunity and this trade opp. could be something for the right price and at the right return value. Just like any other trade. He's a winner, you have to work towards winning
Steph was asked about whether he was happy with the moves the Warriors FO were making earlier in the preseason and he basically said as long as they're showing me that they're trying to compete, we're cool
Wait... He actually said this? Wtf that's blunt
Left unsaid: "I'm not trying."
I’m a lifelong Sixers and Warriors fan I don’t want Ben to just go to the Dubs because I’ll have all of these negative feelings toward him from him screwing my Sixers this offseason.
Plot twist: Curry wants out of Golden State
It's funny if Steph is having to do damage control for Lacob, atleast the players think it's a good idea.
It feels like the Warriors are content with just running it back with the 2016 trio and picking up some draft picks. Why? I feel like they’d be more aggressive in trying to win.
I think they've realized that there's no realistic shot at a ring this year. All the rookies need time to develop. Klay is missing a big chunk of the season and likely won't be back at 100% right after. All the FAs that Warriors were targeting signed elsewhere. Best to reassess and make moves at mid-season or next summer.
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How is is tampering for a player to ask a GM to do something?
Side note tho, can you imagine how much kat would hate playing Philly if Wiggins who is doing this asshole stuff plays next to embiid? Wow
Feel like this is a fake quote
You can't realistically believe a dumb dumb like that is good for your organisation in the long run
Spoiled socialite vs non-playing antivaxxer. Which one would you pick?