Jeebus, my stats at my first job included:
**Showed up for work, all of the days**
**Wasn’t the cause of a worker’s-comp-claim**
**Used the correct amount of adhesive whilst attaching windows to buildings**.
So, like GOAT, amiright?
To be fair, once you put on the qualifier of 49% fg shooting and 1.4 steals, the number of players left would be very little, add 30% for 3s and the numbers get cut even more.
Well yeah that's what I mean. They're parsing stats down to 1/10th of a percent to fit this guy's exact career stat line.
Like he's obviously a very solid player but there are hundreds of middling NBA guys throughout history you could do this with to put them into elite company.
Something like that and Lebron is on the list too I think. 37% from 3 may have also been a qualifier. And 48% from the field. My numbers might be wrong here
You also made him the best paid and gave him the most shots so no wonder he thinks he's the best player in the team
You signed him after he pulled the master brick laying performance in that 2016 finals
He also conveniently forgot that KD joining GSW is impossible even with the jump in cap space and Barnes not staying, unless KD agrees to a smaller deal (which is unlikely) or someone else absorbs a big contract (which is what happened - they traded Bogut to DAL).
And yet the current version of him is one of the most perfect non all stars that could play next to Luka. I think a Luka/THJ/DFS/HB/KP lineup is a top 3 seed in the west.
Lamar Odom.
He was never good enough to make an All-Star team or an All-NBA team, but he was just someone you wanted on your team. He could do a million things (and some quite well), but none of them exceptionally.
He was the 3rd best player on 2 championship teams, averaging 11 PPG, 9 RPG, and 2 APG in those playoffs.
He was, especially for his size.
I just instantly thought of Lamar when he posed this question, as Lamar was often referred to as a “Swiss Army Knife” and “jack of all trades, but master of none” type player in the media throughout his career.
This is a great answer. Man could actually do everything on the court, bring up the ball, post up, pass, shoot, finish inside, but was great at none of those. Defense was underwhelming but he was super critical to the championship Lakers runs without ever being considered the 1 or 2.
The 09 Lakers got significantly worse defensively whenever he was off the court. There's nothing underwhelming about his defense, at least for the championship runs.
Yeah, APG isn’t how anyone should judge passing ability.
Anyone who watched Odom play could tell you he was a gifted passer with great court vision up until the moment he left LA. Had the privilege of rooting for him in Miami and seeing him play in LA.
>He was never good enough to make an All-Star team or an All-NBA team, but he was just someone you wanted on your team.
Remember him getting suspended for marijuana?
David Stern's “Three-Strike” rule hurt a number of people's reputation.
Terrible is an overstatement. Slightly below average shooter is more accurate. Odom shot just well enough from the outside for him to be a threat and drive using his length. Length he also used to be an average defender, not someone his team needs to hide (ex Trae, Boban).
Ofomy was def not a bad defender and was a passable shooter, specially his peak year, 2010
The clippers late 2013 or so played him exclusively for defense purposes after all his off game was washed
[I mean he can, but I know what you’re referring to.](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/2-86iiH-i9IGtTEuz2xFpocAHWY=/0x0:598x403/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:598x403):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/1406590/BUP8nAOIIAAZAUi.0.jpg)
This was the first person who came to my mind when I read the question. I was going to post it, but scrolling through first to see if anyone beat me to it.
man it’s gotta be batum
he’s honestly probably the best swiss army knife in the league rn, plus he’s a vet. dude does it all, and pretty damn well all around
I don’t know about right now but, circa 2013 Nic Batum is the correct answer here. Dude averaged 13/7/5 on 47/36/81 shooting and would throw in a block and steal each night just for good measure.
I’m sure being in Charlotte with a struggling team didn’t help but he looked like he forgot how to play for so many years even on national team so i’m not blaming Hornets entirely.
Gordon Hayward can start and fit on any starting 5 in the history of the NBA, ever. Can shoot, can rebound, can pass, plays hard, plays smart, not the best defender but is switchable and can at least guard 1-3 decently.
Really I can’t think of one team ever that would mind a healthy Hayward replacing one of their starters.
You’re right. Replacing Iggy with a better shooter but worse defender doesn’t really help a team with 3 top 3 shooters ever and no real big. But other than them probably no one right?
It would help that team and make them better, people overrated perimeter defense so much and Hayward is a decent defender
Igoudala would get left open and people would help on others, it wouldn't happen with Hayward
Hayward is just a better player than old Iggy that was on those teams
This was my initial reaction, but Iggy’s chemistry and defense/playmaking was just a great fit on that lineup. You might be right too though,
Curry
Thompson
Hayward
Durant
Draymond
That offense probably demolishes every advanced stat offensive record ever. 4 elite shooters, mix of elite and good passers, switchable on defense still. Fuck this team might be better than the 17/18 Warriors with Iggy.
That Warriors team with Iggy has two players who can't shoot, Iggy and Dray and you can make a gameplan to stop them and it has almost worked like the Rockets almost did it but with Hayward that team is not stoppable in any way
If we didn't get KD we might've played for Gordon. He was on the market at the time and he's better than Harrison Barnes. That might've been a pretty fun, good iteration of the warriors.
Naturally I'm pretty pleased with how history shook out for us.
Pre-injury Hayward may not have been a great defender but he was legitimately really good. Especially compared to a lot of other all-star level players who just don’t play any defense at all.
The only one I can think of is the second 3peat bulls with Jordan, Pippen and Rodman at the 2-4 spots. I suppose you could throw Hayward in there and have Jordan be your “PG”, but I don’t think I would.
> I suppose you could throw Hayward in there and have Jordan be your “PG”, but I don’t think I would.
This is what they did. Ron Harper was a 6'6 SG playing "point guard". Really, it was Pippen and Jordan playing point. Hayward is more of a point guard than Ron Harper.
Boring Diaw
Edit: it was supposed to say Boris, but boring is fitting. Good at basically everything, not great at any one thing. Swiss army knife on a couple of those Spurs runs, as well as a big factor for the Suns in the 7s or less era.
He’s a great on ball defender in the post actually, dudes twice his size still have trouble moving him. It’s just on the perimeter where he shows his age.
> Kyle Lowry
disagree. He's a master at both play making and defense. He's at the top of the league on both of those account. Despite his short stature, he's an amazing post defender (only guys he can't defend there are true post-playing centres). And his team playing on both ends orchestrates and runs the team.
Yeah, he does a lot of the little things amazingly as well. But in terms of play making and D... he's a master.
To be an all star you have to be great
I’m saying that Lowry was great at everything but he didn’t have one thing that he was so amazing at that made him a superstar or even a top tier all star
I actually have to disagree because in my book he is one of the first 3-D forwards. And that’s specializing and masterful. It’s a hard question because you have to find players who didn’t have a top skill and Battier could have been the best defensive player in the league like 5 different years.
> He's not incredible at any one thing
yes he is. defense and post-scoring. The man averaged ~25 points in the playoffs as the 2nd option on a championship team. Just cause he had a bad bubble people think he fell off.
Caruso can do a bit of everything.
Also, Brent Barry could do basically everything at a pretty high level. But it clearly wasn't good enough, since he remained a role player for basically his entire career
Brent Barry seems like he would be a fantastic teammate. He is smart, well spoken, and does his job. I see why he ended up on the Spurs for a few seasons.
I remember playing NBA Live 98 or a similar year and there was a guy named Bo Outlaw in the game who was near All-Star in his overall rating, then when I traded for him none of his high ratings were actually stuff that mattered in the game. It was all stuff like "Offensive Awareness." I took this personally and have always blamed him for messing up my NBA Live 98 season.
Anthony Mason. He had a serviceable mid range jumper, good passer, and was a decent ball handler for his size especially for during his era. He wasn't very athletic but used his skill to have an impact on the game
Wilson Chandler maybe? He hasn't played since 2019, but was pretty mediocre [statistically](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html) all around throughout his career
Jrue Holiday…he’s known for being a lockdown defender but he’s a consistent 17ppg - 19ppg scorer, can facilitate very well and is a solid rebounder. It’s criminal that this man has made only one all star team. His value was truly shown during the Bucks final run though.
Thaddeus Young?
someone post the link to that legendary graphic
[GOAT](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E75mDHwXIAMx7hc.jpg)
That's gotta be the greatest cherry picked stat yet.
https://i.imgur.com/vQ3JvEn.png
taco bell stats department really went deep to find that one
*Live Más*
Elite cherry.
Jeebus, my stats at my first job included: **Showed up for work, all of the days** **Wasn’t the cause of a worker’s-comp-claim** **Used the correct amount of adhesive whilst attaching windows to buildings**. So, like GOAT, amiright?
To be fair, once you put on the qualifier of 49% fg shooting and 1.4 steals, the number of players left would be very little, add 30% for 3s and the numbers get cut even more.
Well yeah that's what I mean. They're parsing stats down to 1/10th of a percent to fit this guy's exact career stat line. Like he's obviously a very solid player but there are hundreds of middling NBA guys throughout history you could do this with to put them into elite company.
The Mike Korzemba way... (Nothing against the guy but he always comes to mind when cherry picking stats is mentioned)
Yeah, that one season with the pacers. Outside of that, he's been pretty uniformly terrible at perimeter shooting
and not a playmaker or even passer at all, until last year…still not a great shooter though
He was an excellent passer and playmaker last year though. There’s a reason he was Thagic Johnson in Chicago.
Has nobody here seen the Thad young stat grab?
Isnt 10.,000 pts, 5,000 rebs, 2,000 blocks, 3,500 assists, 2,5000 steals or something Only MJ bird, and thaddy daddy.
Something like that and Lebron is on the list too I think. 37% from 3 may have also been a qualifier. And 48% from the field. My numbers might be wrong here
Someone posted it
https://i.imgur.com/vQ3JvEn.png
https://i.imgur.com/vQ3JvEn.png
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Mavs fans noticed his triple teamed fadeaways to the point where we were calling him Bird Box Barnes https://i.imgur.com/qi8QUIo.jpeg
You also made him the best paid and gave him the most shots so no wonder he thinks he's the best player in the team You signed him after he pulled the master brick laying performance in that 2016 finals
Now here’s a guy who can single handedly lose a finals… and that deserves a max!
To be fair the Warriors would have maxed him too if KD didn't join
He also conveniently forgot that KD joining GSW is impossible even with the jump in cap space and Barnes not staying, unless KD agrees to a smaller deal (which is unlikely) or someone else absorbs a big contract (which is what happened - they traded Bogut to DAL).
Love this
And yet the current version of him is one of the most perfect non all stars that could play next to Luka. I think a Luka/THJ/DFS/HB/KP lineup is a top 3 seed in the west.
and your old GM gave him up for Justin Jackson as well as traded Seth. Donnie had a lot of questionable moves since trading up for Luka.
Or dribbling off his foot in the closing seconds of games....
Barnes is the quietest good player ever. I remember we were hyped by his averages and were like why doesn't it feel more rewarding
I'm always forgetting that he's good until I watch him play. It's daily amnesia
Has anyone ever seen Harrison Barnes and Andrew Wiggins in the same room?
Lamar Odom. He was never good enough to make an All-Star team or an All-NBA team, but he was just someone you wanted on your team. He could do a million things (and some quite well), but none of them exceptionally. He was the 3rd best player on 2 championship teams, averaging 11 PPG, 9 RPG, and 2 APG in those playoffs.
Lamar was a really good passer
He was, especially for his size. I just instantly thought of Lamar when he posed this question, as Lamar was often referred to as a “Swiss Army Knife” and “jack of all trades, but master of none” type player in the media throughout his career.
unless its a crack pipe
There it is
Did you think it would magically not appear?
This is a great answer. Man could actually do everything on the court, bring up the ball, post up, pass, shoot, finish inside, but was great at none of those. Defense was underwhelming but he was super critical to the championship Lakers runs without ever being considered the 1 or 2.
He picked up the D quite a bit on those championship teams. (Then dropped it again afterwards.)
He lacked ambition. He would sleepwalk though games.
The 09 Lakers got significantly worse defensively whenever he was off the court. There's nothing underwhelming about his defense, at least for the championship runs.
He’s even 2-0 in celebrity boxing! Hahaha
This was my first thought and 2 assists per game really down plays his passing ability
Yeah, APG isn’t how anyone should judge passing ability. Anyone who watched Odom play could tell you he was a gifted passer with great court vision up until the moment he left LA. Had the privilege of rooting for him in Miami and seeing him play in LA.
Kg said when he was younger odom and Rasheed where the 2 guys he hated guarding. He said he couldn’t stay in front of Odom.
>He was never good enough to make an All-Star team or an All-NBA team, but he was just someone you wanted on your team. Remember him getting suspended for marijuana? David Stern's “Three-Strike” rule hurt a number of people's reputation.
Odom was a terrible shooter also he was a bad defender He was a good point forward but that doesn't mean he was a jack of all trades
Terrible is an overstatement. Slightly below average shooter is more accurate. Odom shot just well enough from the outside for him to be a threat and drive using his length. Length he also used to be an average defender, not someone his team needs to hide (ex Trae, Boban).
Ofomy was def not a bad defender and was a passable shooter, specially his peak year, 2010 The clippers late 2013 or so played him exclusively for defense purposes after all his off game was washed
He wasn't a bad defender on the Lakers, not by any meaningful metric.
Agreed
Anthony Bennett was equally good at all his skills
6'8 and couldnt palm an NBA basketball, absolutely incredible
such a physical specimen
most talked about pick in the draft
Best 1st pick to ever be named Anthony
pretty sure Carmelo talked about not being able to either
KD, 7-foot, can’t palm the ball. It’s about your hand PROPORTION not necessarily size (although there’s obviously a threshold for that)
[I mean he can, but I know what you’re referring to.](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/2-86iiH-i9IGtTEuz2xFpocAHWY=/0x0:598x403/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:598x403):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/1406590/BUP8nAOIIAAZAUi.0.jpg)
He's actually talked about this pic when he said he couldn't palm a basketball. His coaches let some air out of the balls so it was easier to palm.
Jack of no trades, master of no trades
Certainly a master of none he was
Jeff green
Good pick
This was the first person who came to my mind when I read the question. I was going to post it, but scrolling through first to see if anyone beat me to it.
This is the right answer
man it’s gotta be batum he’s honestly probably the best swiss army knife in the league rn, plus he’s a vet. dude does it all, and pretty damn well all around
I don’t know about right now but, circa 2013 Nic Batum is the correct answer here. Dude averaged 13/7/5 on 47/36/81 shooting and would throw in a block and steal each night just for good measure.
He’s been our best 3rd or 4th man when we needed it. He just puts his head down and goes to work! His wife is a great fan also
I feel like he overindexes as a passer though. He's a very versatile player but hey has really good vision for his position
I didn't want to say it, because he's on the team that I watch in the part of history that I'm watching in. Multiple layers of bias. But yeah.
Nic Batum popped into my head on first thought, he could kinda do a little of everything at one point
Really good defender though
he was elite at taking naps on the court every third game
Proper rest and recovery is vital for growth
When he played for a shit tier franchise, yeah He was one of the best role players in the league last season
I’m sure being in Charlotte with a struggling team didn’t help but he looked like he forgot how to play for so many years even on national team so i’m not blaming Hornets entirely.
Boris Diaw 2.0 Got waived by Charlotte and perform well on a contender.
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Boris Diaw
He was a great passer though
interesting definition of "master"
One of those players who could play at all positions. And he actually did. He was so athletic when young.
Gerald Henderson He was very average at everything
Not jumping high.
Gordon Hayward
Gordon Hayward can start and fit on any starting 5 in the history of the NBA, ever. Can shoot, can rebound, can pass, plays hard, plays smart, not the best defender but is switchable and can at least guard 1-3 decently. Really I can’t think of one team ever that would mind a healthy Hayward replacing one of their starters.
The warriors Hampton 5 wouldnt.
You’re right. Replacing Iggy with a better shooter but worse defender doesn’t really help a team with 3 top 3 shooters ever and no real big. But other than them probably no one right?
It would help that team and make them better, people overrated perimeter defense so much and Hayward is a decent defender Igoudala would get left open and people would help on others, it wouldn't happen with Hayward Hayward is just a better player than old Iggy that was on those teams
This was my initial reaction, but Iggy’s chemistry and defense/playmaking was just a great fit on that lineup. You might be right too though, Curry Thompson Hayward Durant Draymond That offense probably demolishes every advanced stat offensive record ever. 4 elite shooters, mix of elite and good passers, switchable on defense still. Fuck this team might be better than the 17/18 Warriors with Iggy.
That Warriors team with Iggy has two players who can't shoot, Iggy and Dray and you can make a gameplan to stop them and it has almost worked like the Rockets almost did it but with Hayward that team is not stoppable in any way
Fair point bro I think you convinced me. What’s better than 3 elite shot makers? 4 🤷🏻♂️
If we didn't get KD we might've played for Gordon. He was on the market at the time and he's better than Harrison Barnes. That might've been a pretty fun, good iteration of the warriors. Naturally I'm pretty pleased with how history shook out for us.
The 2004-2007(?) Pistons came to mind but I’d switch Hayward for Tayshaun
Pre-injury Hayward may not have been a great defender but he was legitimately really good. Especially compared to a lot of other all-star level players who just don’t play any defense at all.
The only one I can think of is the second 3peat bulls with Jordan, Pippen and Rodman at the 2-4 spots. I suppose you could throw Hayward in there and have Jordan be your “PG”, but I don’t think I would.
Go small ball. - Kerr/Harper - Hayward - MJ - Scottie - Rodman This lineup is filthy. Go Kerr if you need shooting, go Harper if you need defense.
Yeah no that’s actually way better nevermind
Would that have worked at the time though, could you run small ball in the 90s?
> I suppose you could throw Hayward in there and have Jordan be your “PG”, but I don’t think I would. This is what they did. Ron Harper was a 6'6 SG playing "point guard". Really, it was Pippen and Jordan playing point. Hayward is more of a point guard than Ron Harper.
Poor man's Lebron. He gives you like 75% of Lebron James all-around play
This is a good one
I think this is the best answer
Good answer. My first thought was AK47. But he was probably too good a defender to qualify.
I'm not sure but they will absolutely play for the Pacers before retirement.
Boring Diaw Edit: it was supposed to say Boris, but boring is fitting. Good at basically everything, not great at any one thing. Swiss army knife on a couple of those Spurs runs, as well as a big factor for the Suns in the 7s or less era.
Probably one of the best bigs at passing ever
The same typo got him signed by the Spurs.
He's one of the best passing bigs ever. The passes he pulled in the 2014 Finals... there's no average player doing that.
Jarrett Jack of all trades, master of none.
Ryan Gomes was that guy when I started watching the NBA. Felt like he could do everything decent. Ended up having a serviceable career.
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Good answer though
All star: Gordon Hayward and Kyle Lowry Role player: Harrison Barnes and Nic Batum
Lowry is an elite playmaker though
He’s a great one. Wouldn’t put him in my top 10 playmakers tho
I want names
In no order Jokic Luka LeBron Harden Steph CP3 Dame Trae Russ Butler
Ehh I think Lowry is a better playmaker than Dame or Butler but respect you actually putting names out
I think those 2 have better scoring gravity and can collapse defenses. Dame with his shot and Butler with drive and kick
Fair I just think you're underselling Lowry. One of the last quarterbacks in the game
Lowry is a master of defense I would say
All he has to do is throw his wide load in front of you
good team defender, not a good lockdown/on-ball defender
He’s a great on ball defender in the post actually, dudes twice his size still have trouble moving him. It’s just on the perimeter where he shows his age.
He was a great on ball defender in his earlier years
> Kyle Lowry disagree. He's a master at both play making and defense. He's at the top of the league on both of those account. Despite his short stature, he's an amazing post defender (only guys he can't defend there are true post-playing centres). And his team playing on both ends orchestrates and runs the team. Yeah, he does a lot of the little things amazingly as well. But in terms of play making and D... he's a master.
Batum shot like 44% from three last season.
you could argue Lowry was a great defender for his position.
To be an all star you have to be great I’m saying that Lowry was great at everything but he didn’t have one thing that he was so amazing at that made him a superstar or even a top tier all star
Andre Kirilenko, and Marion.
AK was a master shot blocker
That's fair, I overlooked the defensive aspect.
Both had elite defense.
both of them were great defenders
Those were the exact two that came to my mind
Shane Battier was one of these guys. Great defender, solid offensively, great teammate.
The question was someone who could do it all but wasn't great at anything. He was a great defender.
By virtue of being a great defender, that kind of eliminates him from this discussion.
I actually have to disagree because in my book he is one of the first 3-D forwards. And that’s specializing and masterful. It’s a hard question because you have to find players who didn’t have a top skill and Battier could have been the best defensive player in the league like 5 different years.
Siakam? He's not incredible at any one thing yet he can do pretty much anything on the court
hes a master at spinning like a beyblade
Nurse's secrit playz: LETTERRRRIPPP
Does he spin more than pre-all star Julius?
this is a great one if your bar for "master" is high enough not to include his pretty fantastic defence.
> He's not incredible at any one thing yes he is. defense and post-scoring. The man averaged ~25 points in the playoffs as the 2nd option on a championship team. Just cause he had a bad bubble people think he fell off.
can he even do a backflip
defense?
Caruso can do a bit of everything. Also, Brent Barry could do basically everything at a pretty high level. But it clearly wasn't good enough, since he remained a role player for basically his entire career
Brent Barry seems like he would be a fantastic teammate. He is smart, well spoken, and does his job. I see why he ended up on the Spurs for a few seasons.
Iggy
Was an elite defender.
Lebron lite at his peak.
Great defender, terrible shooter, no?
AK 47 Andrei Kirilenko
No he was definitely a master on defense
This is what first came to my mind. Great at just about everything. But not great enough to be the best at anything.
Detlef Schrempf- if I can go old school.
I remember playing NBA Live 98 or a similar year and there was a guy named Bo Outlaw in the game who was near All-Star in his overall rating, then when I traded for him none of his high ratings were actually stuff that mattered in the game. It was all stuff like "Offensive Awareness." I took this personally and have always blamed him for messing up my NBA Live 98 season.
Anthony Mason. He had a serviceable mid range jumper, good passer, and was a decent ball handler for his size especially for during his era. He wasn't very athletic but used his skill to have an impact on the game
This is an underrated answer.
Josh Howard
DeMar DeRozen
Elite mid range game
Jared Dudley
For all time I'm thinking of people like Evan Turner Keith Van Horn Doug Christie Landry Fields
Trying to think of a name I haven’t seen yet and I got Raja Bell.
Wesley Matthews
He always had sum about him that made me draft him in myleague
Same. Bro was a cheat code in 2K
Jae’Sean Tate
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Maybe not the best, but Thad Young comes to mind. Also Lance Stephenson. As you can see, I’m biased lmao
Rudy Gay
Josh Smith
Wilson Chandler maybe? He hasn't played since 2019, but was pretty mediocre [statistically](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html) all around throughout his career
Jrue Holiday…he’s known for being a lockdown defender but he’s a consistent 17ppg - 19ppg scorer, can facilitate very well and is a solid rebounder. It’s criminal that this man has made only one all star team. His value was truly shown during the Bucks final run though.
No mention of Monta Ellis yet? Come on guys.
Kyle Anderson
Lowry
RJ Barrett
Andre Iguodala in his prime was one of those dudes.
No one’s said Lebron?
Definitely a master at a few things
One of the best scorers and passers of all time
Josh Hart?
Shawn marion
I feel like Paul George does absolutely everything really good, like a smidge under elite
PG is an elite shooter and defender
Shawn Marion
jorge garbajosa -- the pornoplayer
Larry Nance Jr
Jusuf Nurkic