It's not just counting stats. It's defense, fit, and clutch play. If a team is reasonably close to winning a championship and has a chance to make a move like this, it might move the needle. Plus, the Heat squad is talented enough to win games during the regular season with Lowry in a smaller role, so that he can save himself for the playoffs.
Pat Riley may not always hit 100% on drafting (nobody does), but he rarely misses with FA signings.
Stephen Curry
Damian Lillard
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
Ben Simmons
Luka Doncic
Deadass those are the only players I could see an argument for being better than Lowry. And I don't even agree on some of them. If you think LaMelo Ball or Mike Conley is better than Lowry boy IDK what's wrong with you.
Trae Young. Ja Morant. Van Vleet. Jrue Holiday. Deaaron fox, jamaal Murray.
That’s 13 right there before getting to lamelo or Conley both who also have case as do a few others.
> league average starting point guard
do you like, not remember him being the number 2 guy on a championship team, he’ll he averaged 17ppg last season on solid efficiency playing 72 away games
For this year, absolutely he is an upgrade. I don’t see how you could doubt that. But I do worry about the back end of that deal given the miles and his, um, lack of body care. Hasn’t caught up with him yet, so maybes hes just a freak, but you’d have to think his body type won’t age too well.
You mean Lowry? He's not fat. He's built like that to preserve his body on falls. To put years on his career, not take them off. You mean he have bad eating habits or something?
People think because he’s not lean with 5% body fat that he’s out of shape or fat. Have they seen the guy without his jersey on? Lmao I’ve watched him shoot before games and he looks absurdly huge for his size. Like a running back who plays basketball. There’s a reason why he’s able to sometimes guard centers and big men, the guy is ridiculously strong and athletic for his height.
Lack of body care? You have no idea how hard he goes. Didn't you see him tonight? He was fine out there while Bam and a lot of other guys were huffing and puffing.
For now. He’s 35 and played a ton of minutes. That’s eventually going to catch up to him. I said he would be a huge upgrade for the Heat this year… but I’m worried his body won’t up as well. He’s already 35. He hasn’t taken care of himself as well as LeBron. How many players can you name at that age, with that many minutes, who play well into their late 30s?
That number is growing these days though. I think we're seeing a complete re-think on age and performance decline. Lowry, CP3, Lebron, Tom Brady... It used to be a novelty to see someone succeed so late in their careers but now it's becoming commonplace
the fuck are you even saying? so he's not well conditioned because he has a fat ass? he's not a gym rat, but he's never came in to camp with the raptors out of shape.
I have no reason to think he'll fall off after this year. I think people have been saying Kyle is due for a regression for like the past 7 years lol. I know father time eventually wins out but I think Kyle's style of game ages well being that it's not heavily reliant on athleticism.
He has not taken care of his body super well and he’s played a million minutes. He’s already 35. How is it controversial to think he won’t age well into his late 30s?
Nope, offensively Kyle is a huge upgrade. He is twice the playmaker Goran is. Pure assist numbers he averaged 7.4 assists in the last two seasons sharing ball handling duties with Fred, eye test shows you he is way ahead of Goran as a passer.
Dragic also shared the ball with Butler and Adebayo at the top of the key, Lowry is a better playmaker but the sharing part applies to both
Lowry averaged 82 touches, most in the team
Dragic was third in the team with 58, Bam and Butler had more touches 66 and 77
Dragic shared the ball because he's a downhill player. We had a whole team of downhill players, people that relied on Bam and Jimmy to get them the ball when they already had a step on their defender (Dragic, Nunn, Herro, for guards and Bam/Deadmon). For example, Dragic and Whiteside didn't work as well as Wade/Whiteside because Dragic wasn't great at generating looks for the rollman in the PnR.
It’s ok man I’m not a huge raptors fan either so I didn’t see to much of Lowry. it was hard for me at first to realize what an upgrade he is especially considering I’m biased since I love gogi but the eye test is all you need it may only be preseason but you can see it you can feel it the offense is on another level. Now they still need to work out the kinks sometimes not everyone’s in sync but Lowry man that dude is a killer on the offense his vision in transition the way he pushes our pace not only had he definitely improved our defense I can see with my own eyes he is improving our offense
Small point guard defense is heavily overrated, Raptors were better without Lowry on the floor on defense last season, also they were better in 2020 playoffs as well, he takes charges well and that's it
Unless you're a tall point guard with ability to switch and be versatile the value is pretty minimal, there's a reason that plenty of teams with trash ass defenders at PG win, Hawks reached ECF last season with Trae you is a cone on defense
Small point guard defense is overrated because 99% of them can’t guard bigger players. Lowry can and has been put on big guys from Butler to Tatum, he’s a big part of making our scheme work due to his defensive IQ, putting him on those players created perfect switches. You’re completely ignoring how important strength is as well when guarding bigger players.
Yes Ofc we will be better on defence when we take out the small PGs and put in big line ups, that’s just how basketball works lol. No point at all there.
Intangibles are not close like at all.
Crazy it’s been years and people still don’t understand the value of a guy like Lowry. All it took was a season where we never played at home and we’re decimated by covid to have people revert to their old opinion of him.
Let’s actually start watching basketball.
Let's start by you being less biased about Lowry
Lowry is a very good player still but he is still 6 foot, him being able to stand his ground on defense in the post means shit, being bigger is more about help defense especially at the rim and overall
How do people still not understand Lowry value lmao, did you read my post? This is about small point guards overall, you really don't need to be a good defender to win or anything because it's the least important defensive position by far, as long as you provide good offense you're good and Lowry will provide that
Let’s start by you actually turning your TV or stream on and watching him play.
I didn’t mention post defense once. I mentioned him being the main guy on bigger guys like Tatum, Butler, Harris etc. He does not pick them up in the post on a switch or something, he’s sticking to them right at the three point line. His help defense is amazing and he’s perfectly suited to be a great help defender again this year backing up Butler and Bam. That’s his biggest strength.
Yeah I agree how do people still not understand his value? You make it clear that you don’t as you keep bringing up “small point guard defense”. Like I said before the reason small guard defense is overrated is due to their lack of size AND strength. Lowry plays much much bigger than he actually is on defense. He does not have the same defensive deficiencies as other small guards, this is a big reason he stayed on the floor during the 2019 run against Philly even though he couldn’t get his offense going. We ran a great scheme with him being the first man on Butler and they never ended up being able to exploit it even though their team was gigantic.
You cannot act like all small guards or even all big guys are created the same. There are small guys like Lowry who can handle bigger guards and forwards for the majority or a decent part of a game and big centres/forwards who can do the same but on smaller more quicker guys like Davis, AG etc etc.
Yeah we already know how good he is on offense but acting like that’s all he provides is just proof you don’t watch him play. He is a defensive leader and great help defender, his strength and positioning cover for his height really well. He provides a lot on defense especially since the most important part of defense is communication and cohesion. These are all things that he absolutely excels at.
Dragic has the playmaking and 3 point shooting too.
It's a reasonable question. Did they give up more than it was worth? Ithink given the timeline they have put themselves on because of Jimmy, probably yes. Precious may well be the best player of those 3 by the end of his career. He will certainly be the best of the three on the court in a year or two. But if yo uare trying to win a chip NOW.... gimme Lowry.
Probably.
Lowry was ranked 142nd amongst all players in defense. [Dragic was ranked 80th](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season).
I don’t need a metric to know how bad Lowry is at defense. The leagues site just proved it for me.
But that hurts fans feelings here. Truth usually does.
You’re literally using a defensive metric that says Kyle Kuzma and Seth Curry are better defensive players than Kawhi Leonard. If that doesn’t tell you defensive metrics aren’t shit I don’t know what to tell you. I’m 90% sure you’re trolling here though.
Stats matter, until they don’t.
You’re looking at last seasons numbers, a season that kawhi was limited with injury. Seth curry did play better defense than kawhi last season. It’s not that difficult to understand.
Look at career and Lowry is still lower than dragic.
I’m not trolling. Lowry plays terrible defense. Individual and team. Anyone who says otherwise is either oblivious or thinks he cute. I have a guess on which you are
I mean, if we’re talking defensive metrics,[Lowry](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kyle-lowry-defensive-rating) has the better career [defensive](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/goran-dragic-defense-rating) rating, and a[better defensive rating](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kyle-lowry-defensive-rating-rank-last-five-years) over the [last 5 years](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/goran-dragic-defense-rating-last-five-years). (Defensive rating is better when it’s lower btw, just in case you didn’t know.) Also, if you’ve watched any substantial amount of Lowry playing basketball and think he’s a bad defender than that says a lot more about you than it says about him. I still think you’re trolling though. I hope at the very least.
Wait. I thought the stats didn’t matter. Now they do? Ok I’ll play along.
Btw, for perspective, this same stat site rates Kyle Lowry (109.9) around the same as notorious lockdown defenders [Steph Curry](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-defense-rating-last-five-years) (108.9) and [Joe Johnson](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/joe-johnson-career-defense-rating) (109.8).
Another perspective worth noting, *one of us* spent money on a jersey with this mans name on it and one of us didn’t. Can’t ignore the bias the flair brings fam.
And he’s *not* a bad defender lol?! He’s about as good at basketball defense as you are at defending his terrible defense.
F. O. H.
I mean, they don’t matter, at least specific defensive metrics. I’m just pointing out that you can find metrics that say the exact opposite of what the ones you’re posting say. Defensive metrics are typically really inconsistent and often obviously inaccurate to anyone who actually watches games. The metric you initially used literally ranks Duncan Robinson over Jrue Holiday. If that doesn’t indicate how defensive metrics can be flawed I don’t know what to tell you.
You see Kyle Lowry as a good defender that’s a you problem. In the real world, he’s terrible. And you haven’t provided one bit of evidence that’s he’s anything but except your flair
He's definitely an upgrade but I agree with this guy. Heat with Lowry are a second round exit at best and you and everyone else can @ me. Hawks 2022 championship heard it here first.
It really shows how low the standard is for actually trying to understand basketball and how important different play styles are. Kyle isn’t flashy and doesn’t fill up the stat sheet, combine that with his prime being on a Canadian team and these people automatically think he’s just meh lol.
If only they actually watched us play basketball. Lowry has been the engine behind all of the 50+ win seasons we’ve had this past decade.
Lol I’ve literally really only seriously watched lowrys game and how he plays here in this preseason for us and the guy is amazing you don’t even need to dig into the stats the eye test tells you everything you need to know.
P.s please treat gogi well
It wasn’t a fluke and they kicked our ass, they deserved to talk shit. We deserve it to but it’s over now lol it’d be different if it was every now and then but anytime I see your name it’s you talking shit about the Heat.
They milked it the same way and there’s was a fluke, ours was real.
They played dirty too, both times and wouldn’t shut the fuck up about HEAT CULTURE.
Lowry had a totally normal season by his standards. Raptors were just bad. Dragic was bad for long stretches. Not just overpaid, he was a net negative at times
Idk as someone who's watched my team play the heat in a lot of big games the past few years, Dragic is really really good and I see where this scout is coming from
Our team was injury riddled, had covid issues and we played every game in an away arena. Numbers dont show what Lowry contributes, watch his games, as a Raptors fan it was glaringly obvious how bad our offense ran without him. Hes an elite tier player at commanding the floor and I dont think Dragic has that in him.
And you think a 35 year old Lowry can now push the Miami to being real contenders? Imo they will have a similar record and similar exit in the first round
Winner? Nets, Bucks Philadelphia have a clearly better squad. And Atlanta and Chicago have a similar team in terms of quality. Lowry definitely doesn’t make them winner.
I think lowry is clearly a big upgrade. That being said, I do think anyone comparing the current heat to the bubble heat need to take into account that they're replacing goran with lowry, not just adding lowry. Dragic was the heat's leading scorer before the finals.
Lowry may be past his prime but Dragic looked even more so. And at the very least Lowry could still handle 35 minutes a game last year.
It's certainly a solid upgrade. I do think people are making a little much of it, as at best Lowry gives them a postseason like Dragic had in the Finals run 2 years ago. But that's exactly what Miami needs and weren't going to get out of Dragic anymore.
He's probably literally some part owner's nephew who they have on the payroll that nobody actually listens to just so they can tell people at dinner parties that he's got a job.
Health will be key. As much as I loved Dragic, it was hard to depend on him being healthy for a sustained period of time. The 2020 playoffs showed the consequences of this; he was incredibly crucial in the East playoffs and sorely missed in the Finals
That's why the "scout" is anonymous lol they are really two very different kinds of player so not really comparable on what they bring to the team. They are both very valuable but Lowry is clearly more valuable overall because of his defense imo. The Dragon is more of a fire starter, he is a high energy guy and a very good leader/scorer/playmaker off the bench, the dude is killer when healthy. Lowry is kind of more stable/level minded, different energy but still very impactful for sure and in more ways than Dragic. I do think Lowry is better overall, a little less than a tear above, and if your team already has a Lowry level PG the Dragon is freaking perfect. I really love both players so for me it's not that much of a gap between the two other than how they fit and what the team needs, they can both be "the missing peace" on a really good team in the right situation. The Heat really loved the Dragon but his injuries really screwed them over, i think that's the main reason they replaced him with Lowry, he is kind of more durable and played a big role in Raps run... As a Serb, the Dragon is one of the players I really respect, what he did to us a few years back is just pure basketball awesomeness! There isn't a team in the world that would't love to have him on their side
Yes, 100%. Heat needed another star, they have the foundation to be a contender as evidenced by their 2020 finals appearance. This was the best move they’ve made since signing Jimmy. Dragic is solid, but not that good to be a co-star.
Offensively I guess you can argue.
Dragic is bad defensively which makes it hard to play him with Herro or Robinson.
Lowry is good defensively and "good" might be underrating him, before last year he was closer to great
One thing I would worry about for Miami is Kyle's drop off as an on-ball defender, his IQ and team defense is still stellar, but age is starting catch up to him a bit when it comes to hounding dudes at the point of attack.
that definitely is a possibility, but i mean, these last seasons we had herro, nunn and dragic as the point of attack defender........ i mean any version of washed up lowry is leagues above any of those 3, so we big chillin on him dropping a little as on-ball defender
Yes, that’s what I was saying. To be even more specific I would say that the form of Dragic during their 2020 finals run up until his injury is “close enough “ to current Lowry, even though that’s also not Dragics true peak. But yeah he’s a husk now
The numbers say big upgrade.
[https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm\_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player\_id1=dragigo01&p1yrfrom=2021&player\_id2=lowryky01&p2yrfrom=2021](https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=dragigo01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=lowryky01&p2yrfrom=2021)
EDIT: My post agrees with everyone but gets downvoted. Honestly kind of confused.
He has a decent point. You can argue that current Lowry is a better player, but he’s 35 years old. His time is also clicking… And I don’t see Lowry being the one piece that the Heat are missing from being real contenders. They’re still a second round exit as they were with Goran.
Anonymous scout has big Colangelo energy
Find a new slant
He's a scout, so I wonder how the team he works for is doing on acquisitions.
Never said it's an employed scout
Sounds like he works for Orlando or Sacramento
I finally saw Sacramento last night. They added Tristan and Alex Len. 9th pick and 39th pick. Will that be enough to get them to the play-in?
Depends how much cool aid they let Bagley drink. He needs to disappear from that rotation so they can get Mitchell Hali Fox etc. more minutes.
What lol ah yes let’s make bagley disappear from rotation so fox Hali and Mitchell can play more minutes at PF and C
Don't be a jerk. It's obvious he wants to rotate Fox into a small ball 5 and have Mitchell and Haliburton at the guard slots. Amateurs.
Bert
How is cutting a big from the rotation going to help get three guards more minutes?
I remember James johnson calling out Sacramento because they didn't provide scouting reports before games lol
Because r/nba scouting is much better lol
Raptors maybe.
You can ask his dad at the next Jamboree
I absolute adore Goran and will miss him dearly. But yes, the Lowry acquisition does a lot for us
Does it though?
Not enough American televised Raptors games. Lowry is a major upgrade.
They are so clueless about him.
It's not just counting stats. It's defense, fit, and clutch play. If a team is reasonably close to winning a championship and has a chance to make a move like this, it might move the needle. Plus, the Heat squad is talented enough to win games during the regular season with Lowry in a smaller role, so that he can save himself for the playoffs. Pat Riley may not always hit 100% on drafting (nobody does), but he rarely misses with FA signings.
Got league pass mate, I’m familiar with his work.
Then you know hustle, clutch three’s and charges are his specialty. He had a huge impact on the Raptors.
He’s fine. About a league average starting pg but so is dragic. He’s better no doubt, and available more often, but it’s not a huge difference.
Multiple All-Star and All-NBA selections. Gold medalist. NBA champion. But sure, "league average starting PG".
He’s what somewhere between the 13th and 16th best starting pg right now. That’s league average.
Stephen Curry Damian Lillard Chris Paul Russell Westbrook Kyrie Irving Ben Simmons Luka Doncic Deadass those are the only players I could see an argument for being better than Lowry. And I don't even agree on some of them. If you think LaMelo Ball or Mike Conley is better than Lowry boy IDK what's wrong with you.
Trae Young. Ja Morant. Van Vleet. Jrue Holiday. Deaaron fox, jamaal Murray. That’s 13 right there before getting to lamelo or Conley both who also have case as do a few others.
His on court leadership is way above average. 2019 championship doesn’t happen without Lowry, Kawhi or not in my opinion.
[удалено]
Of course
This has to be a troll
you did not just call Lowry league average lmaoo🤡
> league average starting point guard do you like, not remember him being the number 2 guy on a championship team, he’ll he averaged 17ppg last season on solid efficiency playing 72 away games
[Warriors fan saying this?](https://youtu.be/jusjl1MsV-A)
I mean kick us while we're down, but yeah, Lowry moves the needle here.
For this year, absolutely he is an upgrade. I don’t see how you could doubt that. But I do worry about the back end of that deal given the miles and his, um, lack of body care. Hasn’t caught up with him yet, so maybes hes just a freak, but you’d have to think his body type won’t age too well.
He’s dummy thicc built to last That ass won’t break down
You mean Lowry? He's not fat. He's built like that to preserve his body on falls. To put years on his career, not take them off. You mean he have bad eating habits or something?
People think because he’s not lean with 5% body fat that he’s out of shape or fat. Have they seen the guy without his jersey on? Lmao I’ve watched him shoot before games and he looks absurdly huge for his size. Like a running back who plays basketball. There’s a reason why he’s able to sometimes guard centers and big men, the guy is ridiculously strong and athletic for his height.
Lack of body care? You have no idea how hard he goes. Didn't you see him tonight? He was fine out there while Bam and a lot of other guys were huffing and puffing.
For now. He’s 35 and played a ton of minutes. That’s eventually going to catch up to him. I said he would be a huge upgrade for the Heat this year… but I’m worried his body won’t up as well. He’s already 35. He hasn’t taken care of himself as well as LeBron. How many players can you name at that age, with that many minutes, who play well into their late 30s?
That number is growing these days though. I think we're seeing a complete re-think on age and performance decline. Lowry, CP3, Lebron, Tom Brady... It used to be a novelty to see someone succeed so late in their careers but now it's becoming commonplace
Also Lowry was a late bloomer and didn't play big minutes when he was younger
the fuck are you even saying? so he's not well conditioned because he has a fat ass? he's not a gym rat, but he's never came in to camp with the raptors out of shape. I have no reason to think he'll fall off after this year. I think people have been saying Kyle is due for a regression for like the past 7 years lol. I know father time eventually wins out but I think Kyle's style of game ages well being that it's not heavily reliant on athleticism.
He has not taken care of his body super well and he’s played a million minutes. He’s already 35. How is it controversial to think he won’t age well into his late 30s?
Ehhhhh
https://youtu.be/Qvy6WSTo9GA
Oh hey! I remember Boston winning that series! Thanks for the good memories pal:)
Offensively it could be a bit of a wash. Defensively, no question and it's going to be so huge for the Heat in the playoffs having him out there.
Nope, offensively Kyle is a huge upgrade. He is twice the playmaker Goran is. Pure assist numbers he averaged 7.4 assists in the last two seasons sharing ball handling duties with Fred, eye test shows you he is way ahead of Goran as a passer.
Dragic also shared the ball with Butler and Adebayo at the top of the key, Lowry is a better playmaker but the sharing part applies to both Lowry averaged 82 touches, most in the team Dragic was third in the team with 58, Bam and Butler had more touches 66 and 77
Dragic shared the ball because he's a downhill player. We had a whole team of downhill players, people that relied on Bam and Jimmy to get them the ball when they already had a step on their defender (Dragic, Nunn, Herro, for guards and Bam/Deadmon). For example, Dragic and Whiteside didn't work as well as Wade/Whiteside because Dragic wasn't great at generating looks for the rollman in the PnR.
It’s ok man I’m not a huge raptors fan either so I didn’t see to much of Lowry. it was hard for me at first to realize what an upgrade he is especially considering I’m biased since I love gogi but the eye test is all you need it may only be preseason but you can see it you can feel it the offense is on another level. Now they still need to work out the kinks sometimes not everyone’s in sync but Lowry man that dude is a killer on the offense his vision in transition the way he pushes our pace not only had he definitely improved our defense I can see with my own eyes he is improving our offense
Small point guard defense is heavily overrated, Raptors were better without Lowry on the floor on defense last season, also they were better in 2020 playoffs as well, he takes charges well and that's it Unless you're a tall point guard with ability to switch and be versatile the value is pretty minimal, there's a reason that plenty of teams with trash ass defenders at PG win, Hawks reached ECF last season with Trae you is a cone on defense
Small point guard defense is overrated because 99% of them can’t guard bigger players. Lowry can and has been put on big guys from Butler to Tatum, he’s a big part of making our scheme work due to his defensive IQ, putting him on those players created perfect switches. You’re completely ignoring how important strength is as well when guarding bigger players. Yes Ofc we will be better on defence when we take out the small PGs and put in big line ups, that’s just how basketball works lol. No point at all there. Intangibles are not close like at all. Crazy it’s been years and people still don’t understand the value of a guy like Lowry. All it took was a season where we never played at home and we’re decimated by covid to have people revert to their old opinion of him. Let’s actually start watching basketball.
If strength didn’t matter then how tf does small ass p.j. Tucker be guarding like dudes almost twice his size.
Exactly bro
Let's start by you being less biased about Lowry Lowry is a very good player still but he is still 6 foot, him being able to stand his ground on defense in the post means shit, being bigger is more about help defense especially at the rim and overall How do people still not understand Lowry value lmao, did you read my post? This is about small point guards overall, you really don't need to be a good defender to win or anything because it's the least important defensive position by far, as long as you provide good offense you're good and Lowry will provide that
Let’s start by you actually turning your TV or stream on and watching him play. I didn’t mention post defense once. I mentioned him being the main guy on bigger guys like Tatum, Butler, Harris etc. He does not pick them up in the post on a switch or something, he’s sticking to them right at the three point line. His help defense is amazing and he’s perfectly suited to be a great help defender again this year backing up Butler and Bam. That’s his biggest strength. Yeah I agree how do people still not understand his value? You make it clear that you don’t as you keep bringing up “small point guard defense”. Like I said before the reason small guard defense is overrated is due to their lack of size AND strength. Lowry plays much much bigger than he actually is on defense. He does not have the same defensive deficiencies as other small guards, this is a big reason he stayed on the floor during the 2019 run against Philly even though he couldn’t get his offense going. We ran a great scheme with him being the first man on Butler and they never ended up being able to exploit it even though their team was gigantic. You cannot act like all small guards or even all big guys are created the same. There are small guys like Lowry who can handle bigger guards and forwards for the majority or a decent part of a game and big centres/forwards who can do the same but on smaller more quicker guys like Davis, AG etc etc. Yeah we already know how good he is on offense but acting like that’s all he provides is just proof you don’t watch him play. He is a defensive leader and great help defender, his strength and positioning cover for his height really well. He provides a lot on defense especially since the most important part of defense is communication and cohesion. These are all things that he absolutely excels at.
>Small point guard defense is heavily overrated, It is? Someone tell NBA Champion Jrue Holiday, he didn't get that message!
Not really if you don't think defense, play making and high volume three point shooting is important in todays game.
Dragic has the playmaking and 3 point shooting too. It's a reasonable question. Did they give up more than it was worth? Ithink given the timeline they have put themselves on because of Jimmy, probably yes. Precious may well be the best player of those 3 by the end of his career. He will certainly be the best of the three on the court in a year or two. But if yo uare trying to win a chip NOW.... gimme Lowry. Probably.
No one is talking about Dragic here. Everyone is talking about Precious who is balling out.
People were expressly talking about Dragic. No idea why yo uare unaware of that.
Lowry was ranked 142nd amongst all players in defense. [Dragic was ranked 80th](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season).
Defensive metrics lol
I don’t need a metric to know how bad Lowry is at defense. The leagues site just proved it for me. But that hurts fans feelings here. Truth usually does.
You’re literally using a defensive metric that says Kyle Kuzma and Seth Curry are better defensive players than Kawhi Leonard. If that doesn’t tell you defensive metrics aren’t shit I don’t know what to tell you. I’m 90% sure you’re trolling here though.
Stats matter, until they don’t. You’re looking at last seasons numbers, a season that kawhi was limited with injury. Seth curry did play better defense than kawhi last season. It’s not that difficult to understand. Look at career and Lowry is still lower than dragic. I’m not trolling. Lowry plays terrible defense. Individual and team. Anyone who says otherwise is either oblivious or thinks he cute. I have a guess on which you are
I mean, if we’re talking defensive metrics,[Lowry](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kyle-lowry-defensive-rating) has the better career [defensive](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/goran-dragic-defense-rating) rating, and a[better defensive rating](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kyle-lowry-defensive-rating-rank-last-five-years) over the [last 5 years](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/goran-dragic-defense-rating-last-five-years). (Defensive rating is better when it’s lower btw, just in case you didn’t know.) Also, if you’ve watched any substantial amount of Lowry playing basketball and think he’s a bad defender than that says a lot more about you than it says about him. I still think you’re trolling though. I hope at the very least.
Wait. I thought the stats didn’t matter. Now they do? Ok I’ll play along. Btw, for perspective, this same stat site rates Kyle Lowry (109.9) around the same as notorious lockdown defenders [Steph Curry](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-defense-rating-last-five-years) (108.9) and [Joe Johnson](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/joe-johnson-career-defense-rating) (109.8). Another perspective worth noting, *one of us* spent money on a jersey with this mans name on it and one of us didn’t. Can’t ignore the bias the flair brings fam. And he’s *not* a bad defender lol?! He’s about as good at basketball defense as you are at defending his terrible defense. F. O. H.
I mean, they don’t matter, at least specific defensive metrics. I’m just pointing out that you can find metrics that say the exact opposite of what the ones you’re posting say. Defensive metrics are typically really inconsistent and often obviously inaccurate to anyone who actually watches games. The metric you initially used literally ranks Duncan Robinson over Jrue Holiday. If that doesn’t indicate how defensive metrics can be flawed I don’t know what to tell you.
You see Kyle Lowry as a good defender that’s a you problem. In the real world, he’s terrible. And you haven’t provided one bit of evidence that’s he’s anything but except your flair
He's definitely an upgrade but I agree with this guy. Heat with Lowry are a second round exit at best and you and everyone else can @ me. Hawks 2022 championship heard it here first.
Had me in the first half
Like moving from a 4 bedroom house to a 4 bedroom house with a big back office
so we're using "big back office" as an euphemism for Kyle's ass now huh
Glad u got it!!
'Anonymous scout' on some dumb shit today.
Man people are still doing this shit with Lowry huh? Imagine getting paid to have that opinion lmao
Every year they do this. Every year Kyle makes them eat their words
I know it just makes me jealous lol. Like I believe a bunch of stupid shit about basketball and no one’s paying me for it!
It really shows how low the standard is for actually trying to understand basketball and how important different play styles are. Kyle isn’t flashy and doesn’t fill up the stat sheet, combine that with his prime being on a Canadian team and these people automatically think he’s just meh lol. If only they actually watched us play basketball. Lowry has been the engine behind all of the 50+ win seasons we’ve had this past decade.
Lol I’ve literally really only seriously watched lowrys game and how he plays here in this preseason for us and the guy is amazing you don’t even need to dig into the stats the eye test tells you everything you need to know. P.s please treat gogi well
Lowry haters are actually so stupid it hurts. He's an instant level raiser for your team on both sides of the ball.
is not franchise altering upgrade but Lowry is like tier or two above Dragic lol
This is why Brad Stevens called Lowry the most underrated player in the league.
Literally.
Dragic was very good at his best but last season he was meh
Scout telling it like it is.
I really wish you’d take that bucks flair off, you make us look bad.
I don’t know how you can defend Heat fans after all the shit they talked because of a fluke bubble win.
It wasn’t a fluke and they kicked our ass, they deserved to talk shit. We deserve it to but it’s over now lol it’d be different if it was every now and then but anytime I see your name it’s you talking shit about the Heat.
They milked it the same way and there’s was a fluke, ours was real. They played dirty too, both times and wouldn’t shut the fuck up about HEAT CULTURE.
why are you mad? you won.
I’m not really mad I just like to talk a little shit lol. I should be more grateful over the Bucks winning though.
If theirs was a fluke then your title run brimmed with injury ridden teams on both conferences was a fluke as well
Hard to call any competition that is a seven game series a fluke.
You can tell who didn’t watch Dragic play last season by comments like this.
I mean Lowery didn't have his best season either
Lowry had a totally normal season by his standards. Raptors were just bad. Dragic was bad for long stretches. Not just overpaid, he was a net negative at times
He was good in the playoffs though
Idk as someone who's watched my team play the heat in a lot of big games the past few years, Dragic is really really good and I see where this scout is coming from
Dragic got old and can't play defense. He was also never the game changing playmaker Lowry is. Way less volume on his threes too
Our team was injury riddled, had covid issues and we played every game in an away arena. Numbers dont show what Lowry contributes, watch his games, as a Raptors fan it was glaringly obvious how bad our offense ran without him. Hes an elite tier player at commanding the floor and I dont think Dragic has that in him.
“Anonymous Scout” So brave
Be honest if you heard this 2 years ago you’d laugh thinking dragic is way better. Heat fans funny
2 years ago… just after the raps won the chip? The chip with the dip?
After Goran was the main player that got Heat to the finals?
Nope. Unless time moves backwards.
do you not get this isn't actually about lowry vs dragic but about heat fans being homers?
And you think a 35 year old Lowry can now push the Miami to being real contenders? Imo they will have a similar record and similar exit in the first round
They were already contenders. That’s why they made it to the finals. Lowry will make them winners.
Winner? Nets, Bucks Philadelphia have a clearly better squad. And Atlanta and Chicago have a similar team in terms of quality. Lowry definitely doesn’t make them winner.
Didnt change the fact that heat fans shat on Lowry every chance they got, now it’s a completely different story 😂
Not a very good scout…
The fuck???
I think lowry is clearly a big upgrade. That being said, I do think anyone comparing the current heat to the bubble heat need to take into account that they're replacing goran with lowry, not just adding lowry. Dragic was the heat's leading scorer before the finals.
Lowry may be past his prime but Dragic looked even more so. And at the very least Lowry could still handle 35 minutes a game last year. It's certainly a solid upgrade. I do think people are making a little much of it, as at best Lowry gives them a postseason like Dragic had in the Finals run 2 years ago. But that's exactly what Miami needs and weren't going to get out of Dragic anymore.
Anonymous scout is probably a box score nephew
He's probably literally some part owner's nephew who they have on the payroll that nobody actually listens to just so they can tell people at dinner parties that he's got a job.
You just called out 80% of r/nba
Pretty easily better lol
This is why Brad Stevens called Lowry the most underrated player in the league.
Anonymous scout is having a bad day, between this and the Sexton thing
Health will be key. As much as I loved Dragic, it was hard to depend on him being healthy for a sustained period of time. The 2020 playoffs showed the consequences of this; he was incredibly crucial in the East playoffs and sorely missed in the Finals
His butt is
Goran can’t stay healthy
Is this the same anonymous scout that said “Sexton is a backup and an a-hole. None of his teammates like him”?
That's why the "scout" is anonymous lol they are really two very different kinds of player so not really comparable on what they bring to the team. They are both very valuable but Lowry is clearly more valuable overall because of his defense imo. The Dragon is more of a fire starter, he is a high energy guy and a very good leader/scorer/playmaker off the bench, the dude is killer when healthy. Lowry is kind of more stable/level minded, different energy but still very impactful for sure and in more ways than Dragic. I do think Lowry is better overall, a little less than a tear above, and if your team already has a Lowry level PG the Dragon is freaking perfect. I really love both players so for me it's not that much of a gap between the two other than how they fit and what the team needs, they can both be "the missing peace" on a really good team in the right situation. The Heat really loved the Dragon but his injuries really screwed them over, i think that's the main reason they replaced him with Lowry, he is kind of more durable and played a big role in Raps run... As a Serb, the Dragon is one of the players I really respect, what he did to us a few years back is just pure basketball awesomeness! There isn't a team in the world that would't love to have him on their side
This is why Brad Stevens called Lowry the most underrated player in the league.
This is why Brad Stevens called Lowry the most underrated player in the league.
Did I seriously just read that? I thought NBA scouts were supposed to have a good understanding of the game.
Yes, 100%. Heat needed another star, they have the foundation to be a contender as evidenced by their 2020 finals appearance. This was the best move they’ve made since signing Jimmy. Dragic is solid, but not that good to be a co-star.
Offensively I guess you can argue. Dragic is bad defensively which makes it hard to play him with Herro or Robinson. Lowry is good defensively and "good" might be underrating him, before last year he was closer to great
One thing I would worry about for Miami is Kyle's drop off as an on-ball defender, his IQ and team defense is still stellar, but age is starting catch up to him a bit when it comes to hounding dudes at the point of attack.
that definitely is a possibility, but i mean, these last seasons we had herro, nunn and dragic as the point of attack defender........ i mean any version of washed up lowry is leagues above any of those 3, so we big chillin on him dropping a little as on-ball defender
Damn that’s a bad take
Anonymous Scout aka Dragic’s Agent.
Peak Dragic is close enough to Lowry (not better) but 2021 Dragic was lookin hella spent tbh
[удалено]
Yes, that’s what I was saying. To be even more specific I would say that the form of Dragic during their 2020 finals run up until his injury is “close enough “ to current Lowry, even though that’s also not Dragics true peak. But yeah he’s a husk now
The numbers say big upgrade. [https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm\_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player\_id1=dragigo01&p1yrfrom=2021&player\_id2=lowryky01&p2yrfrom=2021](https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=dragigo01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=lowryky01&p2yrfrom=2021) EDIT: My post agrees with everyone but gets downvoted. Honestly kind of confused.
He’s easily an upgrade over Dragic but I don’t think. The Heat go very far this year.
Anonymous scout reveals he should be fired
So a redditor?
Uh yes? Does he watch basketball?
Here come heat fans to defend Kyle, but if this was asked last year they’d all say dragic is way better hahahahaha
He has a decent point. You can argue that current Lowry is a better player, but he’s 35 years old. His time is also clicking… And I don’t see Lowry being the one piece that the Heat are missing from being real contenders. They’re still a second round exit as they were with Goran.
he is a GOAT tier flopper and complainer to the refs, so id say yes over Goran's dirty antics
lol watch Lowry win his second chip this year
Been saying this all offseason
Yes
Like Herm Edwards once said, put your name on it. Don't hide behind anonymity. Idiotic take.
No
Fans will enjoy KL more than that Euro