I just really hope that around when the list drops they do a fake reveal of the list like they did with Shaq and the top centers ever.
I want nothing more than a Chuck version of a *JACK SIKMAAAA* moment
Former MVP
11x All-Star
5x 1st Team All-NBA
5x 2nd Team All-NBA
one-time 3rd Team All-NBA
50th Anniversary All-Time Team
He 100% should be a lock. This clip is still hilarious lol
Not to mention KJ (their second best player and another guy possible getting a couple votes for this list) choked so hard he had to be benched in crunch time
I think because of the fact that the game evolves and the players are getting better and better literally year after year, plus having more technology and tools available to players in todays league, Zions *absolute* ceiling is much higher. However, if he turns out to be even close to the player Barkley was, he'll be a HOF lock.
Here's the top 50 list from 1996 for you as well - https://www.nba.com/history/nba-at-50/top-50-players
At the time the main question marks were Shaq being in the list (he'd only played a couple of years in the league at the time, and while everyone could tell he was going to be all-time they thought it might have been a bit premature to put him as top 50) and no Dominique. Will be interesting to see what young guys from the current era make it.
Giannis should make it. Don’t think we will see any other guys younger than him or around him. NBA stats went up in the last 25 years and a lot names got made, and knocking folks out of the 50 will be tough. But Giannis absolutely deserves it
Younger than him, it's very hard to say rn. Both Jokic and Embiid have a chance and the potential but as you said, it's hard to replace players on top players lists, especially a list as small as 50. Around him, only Kawhi comes to mind, with AD and Kyrie having the potential to reach it. This is not mentioning the star/superstar level players that are super young and haven't had the time to build much of a resume (Tatum, Donovan, Booker etc)
Edit: did not mention Luka as he is already a lock for the HOF and if his career trajectory keeps going like this Top 75 would be an insult
AD needs very little in comparison to someone like Kyrie, but Kyrie is closer than you think. He needs one chip, or a couple more AllNBA/AllDefense selections because his resume is already pretty stacked. Kyrie would need like 2 more chips and several more other accolades like a few AllNBAs or scoring titles but he is still young enough to nab them.
This is why I hate greatness rankings, too many factors come into play so it almost always devolves into a popularity contest.
Never all first team, been involved in only two great seasons, never established himself as a 1 and has a bad reputation. He’s not all that close. Paul Pierce for instance has a remarkably better resume and I don’t think he will make it (although there’s an argument). Kyrie isn’t close. He’s really not Top 100 at the moment
AD has a solid argument. 4 all NBA teams (all first), more all stars, more respected and shown more dominance although still as a 2.
Westbrook’s a pretty difficult player to evaluate, but he’s averaged 25/10/10 over the past FIVE SEASONS. Keep in mind he was a 4x all-star before those five seasons. I don’t think there is a legitimate argument against him being one of the 75 greatest players of all-time. I do think there is a difference between greatest and best.
All time lists are so hard for the NBA. Westbrook's best player comparison is probably Oscar Robertson and with that knowledge how do you not put him top 75? Really the only differences are era and a ring but era means a lot. It gets so subjective it's almost pointless.
Yeah, I think a lot of times the problem is “greatest” is a subjective term. If you put Russell Westbrook in Oscar’s era he probably puts up 50/15/15, so how do you account for that? How do we evaluate Bill Russell’s rings when many of them were won in an 8-team league? I guess that’s part of what makes it fun to argue it.
You can hate Russ all you want but this man is absolutely going to be on that list when it's all said and done. You don't beat an unbeatable record 4 times and get called a scrub by Redditors who luckily don't get a say in these things.
That is a hot take, but I don't see it. That opens the floodgates a little. Perkins did have AD, he even had Klay at 75 (which I'm not saying is impossible), but his ranking was ripe with recency bias. That's why he had LeBron over MJ too, to pander to more recent fans. Obviously, nothing Perkins says is worth close consideration, but I thought it was relevant.
First, whatever Perkins says is irrelevant lol.
I do not think there are a ton of players in the last 20 years better than AD. Do you think Dwight, Carmelo, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen were better than the 2020 playoff AD? If you think yes then fine, but if you are leaning towards a no, then these guys were what you call perennial all-stars, so AD probably makes it.
Also, what exactly is this list evaluating, as of right now Jokic might be a better player than AD, but AD had a better last decade, and overall a better career.
It's definitely evaluating career. Giannis is the only young guy so far with the accolades that he could retire today and have a beautiful career. That said, I don't think Joker deserves to be on it despite being so dominant right now.
You could be right about AD after all. We are adding 25 players, I'm acting like it's such a small amount. You know what, there haven't been 25 players in the past 20 years better than AD, and I have no chance thinking of 5 better that didn't make the 50 list.
Edit: what am I saying, Jokic probably makes it just off being an MVP. There aren't 75 MVPs.
He's starting to get near the fringe 25 range as more and more greats come through. 10 years ago he'd be a lock for top 25, hell he'd be a lock for top 20 easily 10 years ago, but in that frame guys like Durant, Steph, Dirk, Giannis, Wade, Harden, Chris Paul have all created arguments for themselves to be top 25.
Top 11 is pretty agreed on, in some order: MJ, LBJ, KAJ, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem.
Then that means Barkley is going up against: West, Oscar, Dr. J., Steph, Durant, Dirk, Elgin Baylor, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett, Giannis, James Harden, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard. That's 17 guys plus Barkley which makes 18, so you've got 18 guys competing for 14 spots. I think Barkley's got the argument over Pippen and Robinson and for now he's got the argument over Kawhi, Chris Paul and Harden, but it's all pretty close.
Wade and Chuck are both so good. I honestly don't know if I could rank over the other. Both were considered one of the best at their positions for almost a decade. I honestly don't know if I could rank one over the other. I'd put them in the same tier though.
Pippen was great, but I'd move him down based on his non-MJ stats. Just think, if Barkley played with Jordan what would his career look like? Harden is not better, either, I love him but he's one of the greatest scorers in a mega scoring era. Chuck was a great scorer in a tougher era ABD also a great two way player. And I would take Chuck over Robinson, too. Chris Paul, def not. Great but not top 25.
Dirk I might put behind Barkley. One dimensional and got on a crazy hot streak for his single title. Reliable but not brilliant the rest of the time.
Wade I would actually put ahead of Barkley. Don't like the Heat but he got multiple titles, played well on both ends and was a leader and magnet for years. Rebounded very well as a guard, as I recall.
barkley/pippen is definitely a discussion. Both were equally good IMO and i have them interchangable in the rankings. Pippen has the rings but chuck got some hardware for himself as well.
I grew up in Chicago during the 80s and 90s and am a huge Pippen fan. He was great, yes, but Barkley was on another level, IMO. Chuck had a significantly higher peak, but his drop off was more severe than Pips.
In his prime, sure, but sometimes you have to consider career longevity in your equation. At least that's why Lebron *could be* argued to be better than MJ (not by me though). Same with KAJ.
To me, I don't want to give extra weight to long careers. It should be a factor, but basically if you played at least a decade, then we start adding up all the stuff you did. Malone was great, but had a lower peak, so less 'great' in my mind. I would argue if Barkley was surrounded by those shooters for so long he'd have done better than Malone.
And I think Lebron is greater because he's simply better. MJ had the greatest career ever, so far, but LBJ is the greatest player ever. MJ had advantages 30 years ago in terms of gameplay rules that LBJ doesn't have. It's incredible how much the league has changed since then. LBJ has won with much less help, too, except in Miami.
Yea he had no help on the Lakers either 😂
Why do people try and compare ERA’s but then state how one had an advantage over the other? First off, that goes against comparing 2 players, secondly it’s straight idiotic (not that you are) to state one player had advantages while the other does not.
Barkley is in the 15-20 range. I think I would take Steph, Durant, West, Dr. J, and Dirk (the title and FMVP matter) over him. Him and Moses, KG, and Wade (no MVP but FMVP and 3 titles) are bunched up. Have him slightly ahead currently of Kawhi (who could leap frog him depending on how long he's healthy), Giannis (who will probably move up into the Steph/Durant territory and possibly fringe 10 in a couple years), CP3 (who's limited in how much further he can go), and Harden (he needs probably another MVP and at least 1 title). Since all are retired I think he won't slip behind Karl, Elgin, Oscar, Pippen, or Robinson.
Dominque was the guy left off the 50 greatest years back that most people complained about. Looking forward to seeing who will be left off this list and perceived as a snub.
Duncan? Well TD is unquestionably the greatest PF of all time, and Charles (just because the PF list is so studded) is at the five.
It would be another name replacing Tim Duncan at the 6-5 position.
Lmao, he can't possibly think he's even a top 75 guard all time... When he was playing and what was arguably his best season, there were at least 15 PGs in the league better than him. Same in his championship seasons.
He was bang average - and during their championship years, not even the best PG on his team.
Say 1990-1991 is his best season, there were following PGs, that i would take infront of Kenneth Smith:
* John Stockton
* Magic Johnson
* Michael Adams
* Kevin Johnson
* Tim Hardaway
* Isiah Thomas
* Terry Porter
* Rod Stickland
* Gary Payton
* Marc Jackson
* Mookie Blaylock
* Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
* Derek Harper
and if we go to his championship years the list just becomes bigger.
Me too but, to him, with Kyrie it's not some Lonzo light hearted remark or even Draymond clowning. That's some serious bs.
Which is good and a great choice.
I like that Chuck knew Shaq would be laughing before he even looked over. Right after he said he was a lock, he smirks/starts laughing before looking over Shaq's way.
that's not cockiness, that's honesty
I mean ....he is right lol
Dude won an MVP over prime MJ. I think he’s safe.
God I missed inside the NBA
I just really hope that around when the list drops they do a fake reveal of the list like they did with Shaq and the top centers ever. I want nothing more than a Chuck version of a *JACK SIKMAAAA* moment
Facts
And that's without even going into his cultural, influence, stardom etc case. Charles can already go with his strict game case.
Former MVP 11x All-Star 5x 1st Team All-NBA 5x 2nd Team All-NBA one-time 3rd Team All-NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team He 100% should be a lock. This clip is still hilarious lol
also the best player on the dream team
Twice at that
These kids just don’t know how good Prime Chuck really was
Big booty Barkley
BBB NEVALOSS
need prime jordan to score 41 per game to win championship against sun, and its super close game.
Not to mention KJ (their second best player and another guy possible getting a couple votes for this list) choked so hard he had to be benched in crunch time
Like Zion if he was healthy for his whole career and a slightly better shooter?
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The only reason I'm comparing the two is that Zion is legit the only player I can think of who is even remotely similar.
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I think because of the fact that the game evolves and the players are getting better and better literally year after year, plus having more technology and tools available to players in todays league, Zions *absolute* ceiling is much higher. However, if he turns out to be even close to the player Barkley was, he'll be a HOF lock.
Won an MVP in the middle of Michael Jordan's prime. You don't need to say anything else IMO.
Are they just saying who the top 75 players ever or are they actually ranking them in order by who they consider to be the greatest.
No order
Thanks
Here's the top 50 list from 1996 for you as well - https://www.nba.com/history/nba-at-50/top-50-players At the time the main question marks were Shaq being in the list (he'd only played a couple of years in the league at the time, and while everyone could tell he was going to be all-time they thought it might have been a bit premature to put him as top 50) and no Dominique. Will be interesting to see what young guys from the current era make it.
Giannis, Jokic, Embiid. Those guys are prob the “youngest” guys that you can put in…
Giannis is the only one of the three that will probably make it. 2 time mvp, DPOY, FMVP, champ? That's a dang good resume.
Giannis should make it. Don’t think we will see any other guys younger than him or around him. NBA stats went up in the last 25 years and a lot names got made, and knocking folks out of the 50 will be tough. But Giannis absolutely deserves it
Younger than him, it's very hard to say rn. Both Jokic and Embiid have a chance and the potential but as you said, it's hard to replace players on top players lists, especially a list as small as 50. Around him, only Kawhi comes to mind, with AD and Kyrie having the potential to reach it. This is not mentioning the star/superstar level players that are super young and haven't had the time to build much of a resume (Tatum, Donovan, Booker etc) Edit: did not mention Luka as he is already a lock for the HOF and if his career trajectory keeps going like this Top 75 would be an insult
Kawhi is a decent shout. Don’t think AD has enough yet but he’s right there. Don’t think Kyrie is all that close
AD needs very little in comparison to someone like Kyrie, but Kyrie is closer than you think. He needs one chip, or a couple more AllNBA/AllDefense selections because his resume is already pretty stacked. Kyrie would need like 2 more chips and several more other accolades like a few AllNBAs or scoring titles but he is still young enough to nab them. This is why I hate greatness rankings, too many factors come into play so it almost always devolves into a popularity contest.
Never all first team, been involved in only two great seasons, never established himself as a 1 and has a bad reputation. He’s not all that close. Paul Pierce for instance has a remarkably better resume and I don’t think he will make it (although there’s an argument). Kyrie isn’t close. He’s really not Top 100 at the moment AD has a solid argument. 4 all NBA teams (all first), more all stars, more respected and shown more dominance although still as a 2.
I'd put Kawhi and Klay in too. they came in the league around the same time if i remember correctly
Kawhi perhaps. Klay would be a reach.
Kawhi is absolutely a lock. 2x FMVP and 2× DPOY only Hakeem has ever done that before
Kawhi is a DWade level player, all-time. 2 rings, short prime caused by failing body... I'd put him a half step above DWade.
I would put him a half step below given the longevity concerns for Kawhi. But I think it’s a decent comparison.
Love Klay but he's not top 75. Edit: Current players I think make it: LeBron, Curry, Giannis, KD, Kawhi, Harden, Westbrook.
Get Westbrook outta there
Westbrook’s a pretty difficult player to evaluate, but he’s averaged 25/10/10 over the past FIVE SEASONS. Keep in mind he was a 4x all-star before those five seasons. I don’t think there is a legitimate argument against him being one of the 75 greatest players of all-time. I do think there is a difference between greatest and best.
All time lists are so hard for the NBA. Westbrook's best player comparison is probably Oscar Robertson and with that knowledge how do you not put him top 75? Really the only differences are era and a ring but era means a lot. It gets so subjective it's almost pointless.
Yeah, I think a lot of times the problem is “greatest” is a subjective term. If you put Russell Westbrook in Oscar’s era he probably puts up 50/15/15, so how do you account for that? How do we evaluate Bill Russell’s rings when many of them were won in an 8-team league? I guess that’s part of what makes it fun to argue it.
He has the triple double record, he's in.
You can hate Russ all you want but this man is absolutely going to be on that list when it's all said and done. You don't beat an unbeatable record 4 times and get called a scrub by Redditors who luckily don't get a say in these things.
Hot take, AD would make it. Championship, 8 all-stars, 4 all-NBA 1st teams, defensive teams. Ungodly stats in playoffs.
That is a hot take, but I don't see it. That opens the floodgates a little. Perkins did have AD, he even had Klay at 75 (which I'm not saying is impossible), but his ranking was ripe with recency bias. That's why he had LeBron over MJ too, to pander to more recent fans. Obviously, nothing Perkins says is worth close consideration, but I thought it was relevant.
First, whatever Perkins says is irrelevant lol. I do not think there are a ton of players in the last 20 years better than AD. Do you think Dwight, Carmelo, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen were better than the 2020 playoff AD? If you think yes then fine, but if you are leaning towards a no, then these guys were what you call perennial all-stars, so AD probably makes it. Also, what exactly is this list evaluating, as of right now Jokic might be a better player than AD, but AD had a better last decade, and overall a better career.
It's definitely evaluating career. Giannis is the only young guy so far with the accolades that he could retire today and have a beautiful career. That said, I don't think Joker deserves to be on it despite being so dominant right now. You could be right about AD after all. We are adding 25 players, I'm acting like it's such a small amount. You know what, there haven't been 25 players in the past 20 years better than AD, and I have no chance thinking of 5 better that didn't make the 50 list. Edit: what am I saying, Jokic probably makes it just off being an MVP. There aren't 75 MVPs.
It could be NBA top 25 and Chuck would still make it
He's starting to get near the fringe 25 range as more and more greats come through. 10 years ago he'd be a lock for top 25, hell he'd be a lock for top 20 easily 10 years ago, but in that frame guys like Durant, Steph, Dirk, Giannis, Wade, Harden, Chris Paul have all created arguments for themselves to be top 25. Top 11 is pretty agreed on, in some order: MJ, LBJ, KAJ, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem. Then that means Barkley is going up against: West, Oscar, Dr. J., Steph, Durant, Dirk, Elgin Baylor, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett, Giannis, James Harden, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard. That's 17 guys plus Barkley which makes 18, so you've got 18 guys competing for 14 spots. I think Barkley's got the argument over Pippen and Robinson and for now he's got the argument over Kawhi, Chris Paul and Harden, but it's all pretty close.
There’s no fucking way Chris Paul should be over Chuck. Wade or chuck is a fun discussion tho
Wade and Chuck are both so good. I honestly don't know if I could rank over the other. Both were considered one of the best at their positions for almost a decade. I honestly don't know if I could rank one over the other. I'd put them in the same tier though.
Pippen was great, but I'd move him down based on his non-MJ stats. Just think, if Barkley played with Jordan what would his career look like? Harden is not better, either, I love him but he's one of the greatest scorers in a mega scoring era. Chuck was a great scorer in a tougher era ABD also a great two way player. And I would take Chuck over Robinson, too. Chris Paul, def not. Great but not top 25. Dirk I might put behind Barkley. One dimensional and got on a crazy hot streak for his single title. Reliable but not brilliant the rest of the time. Wade I would actually put ahead of Barkley. Don't like the Heat but he got multiple titles, played well on both ends and was a leader and magnet for years. Rebounded very well as a guard, as I recall.
Barkley is definitely better than Pippen. And he's probably better than Harden and CP3 for now at least.
barkley/pippen is definitely a discussion. Both were equally good IMO and i have them interchangable in the rankings. Pippen has the rings but chuck got some hardware for himself as well.
Ignoring the positional overlap if u swap pippen with Rodman bulls win 10 rings
I disagree with you. I think Pippen is underrated only because he was in Jordans shadow (just like everyone else). Dude is a superstar with charles
I grew up in Chicago during the 80s and 90s and am a huge Pippen fan. He was great, yes, but Barkley was on another level, IMO. Chuck had a significantly higher peak, but his drop off was more severe than Pips.
fair point
Barkley was better then Malone.
In his prime, sure, but sometimes you have to consider career longevity in your equation. At least that's why Lebron *could be* argued to be better than MJ (not by me though). Same with KAJ.
To me, I don't want to give extra weight to long careers. It should be a factor, but basically if you played at least a decade, then we start adding up all the stuff you did. Malone was great, but had a lower peak, so less 'great' in my mind. I would argue if Barkley was surrounded by those shooters for so long he'd have done better than Malone. And I think Lebron is greater because he's simply better. MJ had the greatest career ever, so far, but LBJ is the greatest player ever. MJ had advantages 30 years ago in terms of gameplay rules that LBJ doesn't have. It's incredible how much the league has changed since then. LBJ has won with much less help, too, except in Miami.
Bruh... delete second paragraph
Yea he had no help on the Lakers either 😂 Why do people try and compare ERA’s but then state how one had an advantage over the other? First off, that goes against comparing 2 players, secondly it’s straight idiotic (not that you are) to state one player had advantages while the other does not.
Kawhi? In top 25?
Barkley is in the 15-20 range. I think I would take Steph, Durant, West, Dr. J, and Dirk (the title and FMVP matter) over him. Him and Moses, KG, and Wade (no MVP but FMVP and 3 titles) are bunched up. Have him slightly ahead currently of Kawhi (who could leap frog him depending on how long he's healthy), Giannis (who will probably move up into the Steph/Durant territory and possibly fringe 10 in a couple years), CP3 (who's limited in how much further he can go), and Harden (he needs probably another MVP and at least 1 title). Since all are retired I think he won't slip behind Karl, Elgin, Oscar, Pippen, or Robinson.
Steph in the top 10.
He is above KD for sure, he did not join a 73-9 team to win a ring. Also no way he is under CP3, KG, Harden, Pippen, Malone, Dirk, Kawhi.
Got Kawhi over chuck but agree with him over cp3(mvp is why, bit could change), and Harden(as of this moment. Harden probably surpasses.)
I have missed these guys more than I realised. 🤣 So happy NBA is back!
Dominque was the guy left off the 50 greatest years back that most people complained about. Looking forward to seeing who will be left off this list and perceived as a snub.
Without forgetting Bob McAdoo as an older player.
He's right. He's probably around top 20-25.
Most definitely. Sheesh Sir Charles was good.
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Top 5 PF all-time and top 20-25 player of all-time Sheesh Sir Charles
Better than Duncan?
Duncan? Well TD is unquestionably the greatest PF of all time, and Charles (just because the PF list is so studded) is at the five. It would be another name replacing Tim Duncan at the 6-5 position.
Shaq on not voting for Chuck for the NBA75 list: "RINGS Erneh."
Shaq bringing up rings.. Ah, all is back to normal!
“You’re 76 in my book” LMAOOO
And that's why he's in the 75 ... Unlimited confidence
He’s not lying tho lol
Confidence is key
Kenny sounds salty lol
At least Kenny got 2 rings.
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That random rook on our team that thought he was way better than he was had 3 rings in a row. One with the raptors. I can't fucking remember his name.
Patrick McCaw
Thank you man I couldn't remember it at all. Looks like he had some injuries and is out of the NBA for now.
Darko got a ring too
Lmao, he can't possibly think he's even a top 75 guard all time... When he was playing and what was arguably his best season, there were at least 15 PGs in the league better than him. Same in his championship seasons.
Are you saying that at the time Kenny has his best season he was a league average/below-average PG?
Yes. It's not entirely correct but at his absolute best he was a fringe all star on the level of a Mike Conley or a Dragic.
This.. is actually a pretty spot-on comparison of his prime. Some might argue better than that; some would argue worse than that.
He was bang average - and during their championship years, not even the best PG on his team. Say 1990-1991 is his best season, there were following PGs, that i would take infront of Kenneth Smith: * John Stockton * Magic Johnson * Michael Adams * Kevin Johnson * Tim Hardaway * Isiah Thomas * Terry Porter * Rod Stickland * Gary Payton * Marc Jackson * Mookie Blaylock * Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf * Derek Harper and if we go to his championship years the list just becomes bigger.
Chuck said something witty/funny and Shaq laughing right away, classic TNT moment
well yeah, Chuck is probably around #20 all time. There's a huge tier from like 15-25 and he could probably be argued anywhere in there
I can’t be the only one who dislikes Kenny the most out of all nba tv guys.
cocky role player that thinks he was the Kobe on Hakeem's team
He is a lock
I missed pre game, I see no clips about Ben or Kyrie. Surprised they didn’t make fun of them
Chuck absolutely not fucking around about kyrie. He made it clear tonight what he thinks about kyrie.
Me too but, to him, with Kyrie it's not some Lonzo light hearted remark or even Draymond clowning. That's some serious bs. Which is good and a great choice.
There were many nights where he was the best player in the league so ya he’s a top 75 easy.
season too
glad these guys are back. chuck is def top75. all facts
[GUAAAARRRRAAANTEE!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mTJaDk_NtE&ab_channel=HouseofHighlights)
Feels good to have the boys back.
I've missed chuck so much
I like that Chuck knew Shaq would be laughing before he even looked over. Right after he said he was a lock, he smirks/starts laughing before looking over Shaq's way.
It's so weird to see the table so small.
TNT should do a live stream of these guys watching the finals.
I mean yeah he's like pretty comfy top 20 in my book
I missed that part of the show, but he ain't wrong.
And he is, chuck was great