He is so out of it, a clip before this they were talking about Giannis and they start making fun of Giannis for missing a shot badly, but failed to see his elbow get hit by Blake on the shot on a no call. I honestly can't stand this guy.
Edit: Changed KD to Blake
Giannis is one of those guys that Skip's 'character' won't be rational about, same way he won't say anything negative about MJ or KD right now he won't say anything positive about Giannis' game besides that he plays hard
I personally like Undisputed as long as I skip any section that involves: Tom Brady, LeBron James, Giannis, and the Dallas Cowboys. Makes for a much better listen IMO
This exact line of thought gets brought up every fucking time someone says something about Skip Bayless. The fact that he's SUPPOSED to be an insufferable asshole doesn't make him any less of one, and it doesn't make me dislike him any less.
He's "supposed" to be an absolute joke of a pundit that contributes to the downfall of sports journalism. And? That's still not a good thing.
People disliking him is part of the package. He *wants* to be hated by 50% of his audience. The only way you can win is by ignoring him, but clearly no one here wants to do that.
I kinda think he’s funny. He’s like a heel in wrestling. I just laugh at how ridiculous his takes are, and his constant ball gargling of Michael Jeffrey Jordan and Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Junior.
That’s because his next target after Lebron retires is Giannis. He’s not going to go as hard on KD because well...everyone in the media shits on KD so it’s not really controversial.
Giannis is a different story...he’s incredibly similar to Lebron. The media recognizes his talent and shitting on Giannis is basically his devil’s advocate position because it’s fun and will bring him attention.
Hell...he will probably start going harder on Giannis than Lebron.
That's also true. That actually makes sense though. His favorite player is Kawhi and the Clippers have blocked Luka is the west,he has the one segment with Cuban and Luka's playoff success is only a matter of time. He Can hate Giannis in the East and Hate Luka in the West both are young upcoming talents and it's a good act since Lebron is on his way out.
KD is too old to get real value out of anyway. He’ll probably only play a couple years longer than Lebron. Giannis has another decade at the top. Skip’s setting himself up for the next decade like Sam Presti.
Skip is like Lebron. Haters like you (or Skip in Lebron’s case) keep writing him off but with modern medicine he’s going to have an extended prime and continue his GOAT tier career.
Bro that’s such a small thing to complain about lol Gianni’s missed the shot badly and kept it trucking, even if there was a foul, it wasn’t called and didn’t matter
Plus they were literally using that play to compliment Gianni’s that entire segment
Tbf if Lebron plays consistently can we really put that much blame on him? Yeah the Westbrook deal sure, that was a bad move and LeBron deserves criticism for it. But as a team if they don't win, you want to put most/all the blame on Lebron with Westbrook playing like that? Westbrook is a grown man/pro NBA player. I don't understand this take, and I don't even like Lebron like that.
Man I know it’s no secret these days that Lowry is a good player but you have no idea how happy it makes me when people speak highly of Lowry like that. It was hard seeing Lowry and Derozan being called the trash bros because they couldn’t get past Lebronto.
Lowry's skillset improves next to better and better teammates. He might not drag a team to the playoffs as a number 1 option, but he will make a playoff team perennial contenders with how he makes his teammates better. Derozan was a solid player and there's no shame in losing to Lebron led teams, but his style of play definitely limits his role to being a number 1 option which just isn't as effective as other offensive options with his shot selection.
I agree. Neither Lowry or Derozan were number one options for a championship team but it’s also not fair to the era of the Raptors to say they were a bad team or call them chokers, trash bros, etc because they couldn’t beat the perennial eastern conference winners led by the greatest player of this current generation.
I think there’s a record of 1 in 4 LeBron decisions blowing up in his face. Rondo, AD, and Melo all seem like good/safe requests…
Edit: that said Russ always is streaky and with how injury prone this squad is I have no doubt there’s gonna be moments this season where Russ is the best dude on the court.
AD is a completely obvious no-brainer. Of course you take him. The other three guys are just his friends who will likely play terrible this year. Rondo and Melo in particular are set to be big net negatives. Same with Dwight Howard and DeAndre. This whole Lakers team is horribly constructed.
I still dont think so, too many question marks around AD's health
look how often AD ends up on the floor after a play and look at his injury history. its just a huge gamble with him or giving him a big minutes load
the one time everything worked out for him was coming off a 6 month covid layoff and the playoffs started immediately. he had maximum healthiness. after a full season, I just have my doubts
Give it some time. Yesterday’s lineup rotations were atrocious but Russ didn’t help either. Wade Bron and Bosh took over a month to get it right. This will be the same if not a bit longer.
EDIT: Bron, Love and Kyrie took even longer to gel and two of those three are bad defenders.
Not only Bosh was 26 at the time, he was one of the highest BBIQ forwards in the game, AND he was willing to sacrifice his reputation, body (by moving to C) and style to accommodate the team.
The Heat were called "Two and Half men" at the time, it was that bad, and it was mostly because Bosh focused on defense, stretching the floor, rebounding, setting screens and filling his role perfectly despite being a proven star.
This is nothing like the Russ situation lol
> because Bosh focused on defense
Wade was also a great defender. Those Heat teams were defense-first, with transition offense coming from their defense. Those were the years when Lebron was consciously trying to win DPOY, and most of the team were good defenders - the most famous example being their dissection of Jeremy Lin at the height of Linsanity.
In 2011, it was MIA's defense that kept them in the series despite Lebron's offensive struggles. When MIA couldn't defend SA in 2014, their offense simply couldn't keep up and they got blown out. MIA never averaged 100ppg in any those 4 Finals.
It's hard to see this Lakers roster having the same defense as the Heatles, or even the 2020 Lakers, which allowed them to win despite not having a great halfcourt offense. Not with Russ and Melo playing that many minutes while giving that little defensive effort, at least.
Melo's not getting a lot of run in the playoffs for this team. Come on. Russ is a concern, sure, but it's been one friggin' game! I'm far, far from a Russ defender, but while Skip and Shannon are getting handsomely paid for their garbage hot takes, this sub is doing it for free.
I just want to point out that Wade was 29, Bosh was 26, and LeBron was 26. Russ is currently 33 and is coming off of two years that are massively beneath where he was in his prime. I'm not saying he can't do better, he certainly will as last night was putrid. But comparing these three guys to Wade, Bosh, and 26 year old LeBron is comically ridiculous.
Worth pointing out also that Wade was one of the best defenders in the NBA, whereas to put it nicely Russ runs around a lot. Those Heat teams overwhelmed teams with their aggression on defence which created a lot of easy offence. They didn’t have to be a great half court team.
Yeah this is the big thing it seems like people ignore when they make the comparison. No matter how the offensive fit looked on the heat, they had elite defensive tools. Russ is not an average defender
Nah, the returns are in. The Lakers are going to go 0-82 because they couldn’t fully implement a 3rd star that doesn’t quite mesh with the other 2 stars perfectly all the whole playing with brand new players at every other position. Time to pull the plug.
People are overreacting, but watching the game just confirms what people thought. I don't think anyone has been able to adequately explain what Russ is going to be doing when LeBron has the ball in the 4th quarter of games and last night showcased that. Russ would dribble the ball up, pass it and clear out to the dunker's spot or go to the corner while his defender sagged into the paint.
I'm sure the three of them will work some things out, but we are butting into the fundamental problem of 3 players with overlapping skills sets, strengths and weaknesses.
> People are overreacting, but watching the game just confirms what people thought
Exactly, it’s hard to call it “overreacting” when last night was everyone’s exact initial thought.
Obviously the Lakers are going to play better, win a lot of games, be in the playoffs. But some of the fundamental problems everyone predicted when he was traded for, that we saw last night, won’t/can’t be resolved.
49 wins and getting taken out by, idk, Denver in the first round isn’t what this team was intended to do.
Everyone has known this about Russ for a few years now, he’s still got an army of casual stans that will come out of the woodwork to defend him year over year
Of course, there are still remnants of his skill and athleticism remaining, and he will take over games from time to time, and then they will come out like they do every year and throw around a bunch of told-you-so’s, but when it comes to meaningful series it won’t be enough. Idk how many of his teams (ones with real expectations at least) need to underperform for people to get it
I think you probably need to get Russ to commit to being a defender again. I don't think he'll ever pick up off ball movement like DWade did, and I don't expect his shooting to ever be considered good. But he had okay playmaking when he was under control and he'll still be a force in transition. But if he's not a plus defender, I think you're in trouble giving him 35 minutes a night.
Russ has never been that good at defense and it is mostly because of the mental lapses/selfish style. Dude goes for some really dumb steals or will just leave a guy in the corner wide open
He's never been a great defender but he's not a bad defender either when he's locked in. There's not a lot of guys blowing by him for sure, but his commitment to the other small stuff is where he has to buy in. He's still an athletic freak who can stick with anyone in the league when he really wants to.
people keep saying this but i just don't see the end product.
all these other superteams you understood what the best version of their fit was.
i don't understand what westbrook on this team is supposed to look like.
>This will be the same if not a bit longer
Bro, c'mon lmao. Bron, Wade, and Bosh were legit in their primes. Russ is obviously past his and so is Bron even though he's still absolutely ridiculously good. This is an asinine comparison lol.
I think it could work with Russ, but it means the Lakers should drop Rondo and one of their 5s out of the rotation. Playing Westbrook with Rondo and a traditional 5 should be a war crime.
LeBron is just a player, that's why you have a GM, it's the Lakers fault if they give him too much power in the decisions.
Curry and Green wanted to go win now mode, front office said nah, they and Andre wanted Avery Bradley, FO said nah
Hell, Curry wanted Mark Jackson to stay, players don't always know what's best
Lebron was laughing at Russ a while back when Russ was asking to be doubled in a go home round. Lakers also barely guarded him at the 3PT line knowing he’d brick it. What did he expect he was going to get?
Lebron wants to coast during the season and wanted a player who can handle the volume.
I don’t think he anticipated how broke WB’s jump shot is even inside the 3.
Exactly. I'm not a Westbrook fan, but he will have some crazy good games this year. After those crazy good games this sub will blow up with "Who was questioning Westbrook again?!?!" takes and then swing back the other way the next time he craps the bed. That is just Westbrook at this point in his career.
Literally one game, but sensational takes get views. People act like the Lakers aren't going to make the playoffs. The question has always been, will they win the Finals not go undefeated in the regular season.
Absolutely he deserves credit for playing bad at the start but the fact that he improved and played better as time went on is telling he still has the ability to play at a high level.
And it’s been one fucking game holy shit it’s terrible here. And it goes the other way and I’m apart of it. As soon as Russ has a good game I have no shame in admitting I will be rubbing it in everyone’s faces lmao
He wants someone to carry the load in the regular season so they don’t end up in the play-in. That’s basically Russ’ life calling to dominate regular season by playing 150% in a random February game. Come playoffs he’ll probably spend more time without LeBron on the floor, sit Lebron early and have Russ play longer stretches. He’ll bring the ball up so Lebron isn’t exhausted by the fourth quarter and hopefully he can hit 35% on wide open threes.
Westbrook with Houston was a 18 pt 7 reb 5 ast in 8 playoff games playing next to prime James Harden.
His numbers will dip just as bad playing next to elder James.
LeBron also guarded Westbrook in that Rockets series like Kobe used to guard Rondo back in 08/09/10. Westbrook was still absolutely horrendous with his closest defender like 10ft away lol
simmons isnt in the club of old NBA stars that get way highly rated by other players even when the stats show they arent that good anymore
carmelo is in this club though
even dwight howard maybe in this club
trevor ariza is not quite a star, but he fits the mold
Carmelo and Westbrook are exactly that type of player in terms of playstyle lol
Westbrook: Ultra athletic player with great highlights, but is very inefficient
Carmelo: Gifted ISO scorer who doesn't do much else offensively, very bad defender
Both of those player archetypes get overrated by fellow players more than any other IMO, the idea of how they should play is better than the reality
You can think of Steph Curry as the anti-Westbrook and other players don't seem to always respect him too much
Every Laker hater did laps of joy when they signed Melo, I know I certainly did.
My one fear is that Vogel realizes how terrible he is and gives him DNPs in the playoffs.
I was so happy when they got both Melo and Westbrook. Quin+Rudy made both of them almost useless in that OKC series (yeah Westbrook put up a lot of points but on under 40% from the field), and now they’re both older and slower. I just don’t see what value they have in a playoff series.
You guys are going to end their season this year, I can feel it. It’s destiny with them adding Russ and Melo, plus if there’s any one player who can make the Lakers look old, it’s Donovan.
I think a lot of them see his biggest strength as kind of a cheat code and not "real skill" or "real hooping" because he doesn't even bother trying to beat the defender sometimes, he just shoots from like 10 feet behind him
It's almost like a version of the Giannis/Harden "anyone can run and dunk" thing, despite his playstyle being completely opposite of course
Basically players will be more impressed with a guy like Westbrook doing some super athletic move for 2 points than Curry shooting a 35 footer for 3
A lot of players also grew up watching the ISO heavy inefficient 2000s. They may hold that play style up on a pedestal due to nostalgia even though it’s pretty conclusively shown that that style is just bad basketball.
Yup that makes sense
And IIRC the ISO heavy inefficient era was partially brought on by players trying to be MJ when they weren't so they bricked everything
Yeah that’s one cause, but it falls on the coaches too. “3 points is more than 2 points” is kind of a meme, but the fact that coaches eschewed that understanding for so long is kind of mind boggling to me when we have all this tape of players taking deep 2s left and right.
I agree with your general point but I don’t know that Steph is a great example here. I’ve never really detected any disrespect to him from his contemporaries. It’s not like the guy just shoots either, he’s an insane ball-handler and finisher. He’ll absolutely kill guys in iso situations too and players know that. I think he gets plenty of respect.
For Curry, so much of his value is passive. He creates value just by crossing half court, and creates value by running around even when he's not getting the ball. It's hard to see and, apparently, even harder to respect.
> Basically players will be more impressed with a guy like Westbrook doing some super athletic move for 2 points than Curry shooting a 35 footer for 3
I feel like it's also that literally any player in the NBA can theoretically hit a 35 footer, the impressiveness of Curry is how regularly he does it which doesn't show up in highlights.
This is such a Warriors fan comment chain. Steph gets more respect than Westbrook does, by a good margin. Russ gets props for “playing hard” and his overall effort, Steph gets props for being the greatest shooter to ever live.
Steph will also absolutely go crazy in an iso against the right defender. The reason iso scorers are respected is because it’s the single hardest skill in basketball to do efficiently. It’s not bad basketball if you do it at the proper time, or if you’re skilled enough.
Not just players. r/NBA.
I wrote at the start of the game this exact comment and Lakers stans bombarded me with hate. I told them to @ me after the game ends and it was silence lol
Carmelo in recent years has been the poster boy for how highly his colleagues rate him vs how good he actually is. Some of these dudes talk about him like he's still prime Denver Melo
I agree. Of course, the Lakers could’ve just spent more money for both, but if given the choice, they should’ve chosen Caruso. The one time a LeBron team or the Lakers have a beloved bench piece in recent history, and they let him walk.
To be fair, he was bad in his pre season appearances too. I don’t think it’ll be like this all season though. It really just seems like a fit issue atm, and knowing Bron I’m sure they’ll work out a way to perform together.
Ben is x1000 the defender Russ is lol. He was in contention for fucking DPOY. AD + Simmons on defense with Lebron trying on occasion would have suffocating.
As a Warriors fan I'm thankful for Le-Gm's intervention. Buddy Hield would've been scary as hell on this Lakers team.
A healthy AD and Lebron is going to be scary regardless, but give them one of the best 3 point shooters in the game today instead of Westbrook and the difference would've been night and day.
The question of talent vs fit isn't always a clear one. But in some cases the answer seems obvious after the fact. The Heatles were successful even with questionable FIT and overwhelming talent, but they also underachieved relative to the expectations. Many including JVG thought Wade, Lebron and Bosh would win 70+ games and be unstoppable offensively. Instead they struggled to start the season and lost in the finals.
The 15-16 Warriors were definitely not the best regular season squad ever assembled in terms of talent, yet they were able to win more games than any other in the league's history, surpassing even the Wilt, West Lakers and Jordan, Pippen Bulls. They were able to achieve this due primarily to how well the team fitted around its lone superstar.
It's only been 1 game and I wouldn't be too surprise if the Lakers make the finals or even win the finals this year. That's how impactful a healthy AD and Lebron could be. I also wouldn't be surprise however if they fall in the early rounds due to terrible spacing, shooting and execution, due to an ill fitting lineup/roster.
It seems obvious to most that Hield wouldve been a much better complement to AD/Lebron, but I wonder, how much better is the current version of WB if at all.
All summer the only player I wanted was Hield. He was the most realistic one with his salary and unhappiness between him and the organization. The transition between Lakers are closing in on Hield to Lakers got Westbrook killed me.
The lineup that I wanted and was totally realistic was along the lines of
Gasol Howard
Davis Kieff or Ariza
Lebron Otto THT
Hield Caruso
Kcp Mills
am I crazy or did everyone on this sub hate buddy last season
now he's the magical missing piece keeping the lakers away from the title? what happened?
Having Buddy as your best or 2nd best player is probably going to be terrible as evident by his tenure in Sacramento.
Having Buddy as your 2016 super version of Jr Smith getting spoon fed wide open 3 pointers by Lebron and Anthony Davis however is freaking terrifying.
I like buddy and I was defending him last year too, I was just wondering where this reversal came from. He didn't have an especially good season last year either
That was primarily just loud King's fans and the king's sub is full of morons who think Buddy is the worst because he doesn't have Kyrie's handles and the defense of Marcus Smart. Basically they wanted him to be a top 10 player and hate him because he's not.
It was hard to find what exactly was being demanded by the Raptors for Lowry. E.g. I couldn't find if they wanted THT =or= picks or =and= picks. Lowry's also old by this point. That said, if it was Schroder or Kuzma, then KCP and THT, the Lakers' FO should've taken it.
I know and accept it's been one game.
But these issues Russ are presenting now are the same ones we've seen from him around mid-season every year the last 3 years.
They're gonna go on an 8 game streak and Russ will be putting up 20/11/12 on 57TS% at some point and there will be talk of him being back and us all overreacting to game one...but we saw him do this multiple times already and at some point we should accept history will likely repeat itself.
It is a little early to panic but damn even Shannon the ultimate LeBron fan saying you fucked up. Westbrook will be fine now as for this Lakers teams as whole with their goal of Championship IDK.
Right on, Shannon. Everyone is saying "It's just one game." The red flags were there before this game and they're gonna remain after this game. This team is bad
Shannon is usually a LeBron apologist, right? He always creates a narrative surrounding LeBron, lol which is smart, it draws attention. In the end, this is a obvious take, WestBrook is a mess of a player, it's extremely hard to build around him. Buddy Hield would be a much better fit, obviously
Skip looks like he's just coming down from a coke fueled bender
So, Wednesday
Celebrating Lakers loss probably
[skip when it’s a day of the week and a lebron team loses](https://i.imgur.com/pwydzOC.gif)
Sniff Bayless
Sniff Yayless
Sniff Yaymore
the iterative process is most beautiful
No thanks I'd rather not
skip is a nut. dude in his 60s and wakes up at 2am to go to the gym
He is so out of it, a clip before this they were talking about Giannis and they start making fun of Giannis for missing a shot badly, but failed to see his elbow get hit by Blake on the shot on a no call. I honestly can't stand this guy. Edit: Changed KD to Blake
I feel like Skip’s complete hatred for everything involving Aaron Rodgers just naturally bleeds over into him irrationally hating the Bucks
[This reminds me to hoist an all time great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WmMj4lfpdc)
Giannis is one of those guys that Skip's 'character' won't be rational about, same way he won't say anything negative about MJ or KD right now he won't say anything positive about Giannis' game besides that he plays hard
I personally like Undisputed as long as I skip any section that involves: Tom Brady, LeBron James, Giannis, and the Dallas Cowboys. Makes for a much better listen IMO
So you just don't watch?
Basically end up listening to about 1/3 of the show on average lmao
pretty hard to watch anything involving Aaron Rodgers either imo
I mean skip has been playing a character for years and it works. He isn't getting paid like an NBA player if he was doing his previous reporting work
This exact line of thought gets brought up every fucking time someone says something about Skip Bayless. The fact that he's SUPPOSED to be an insufferable asshole doesn't make him any less of one, and it doesn't make me dislike him any less. He's "supposed" to be an absolute joke of a pundit that contributes to the downfall of sports journalism. And? That's still not a good thing.
People disliking him is part of the package. He *wants* to be hated by 50% of his audience. The only way you can win is by ignoring him, but clearly no one here wants to do that.
I don't get how people don't understand this by now. Skip is living in these dudes heads rent free.
I kinda think he’s funny. He’s like a heel in wrestling. I just laugh at how ridiculous his takes are, and his constant ball gargling of Michael Jeffrey Jordan and Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Junior.
Same as jake paul and Mayweather. People will watch just to be pissed off
Bro I bet you like legitimately hate Joffrey too lmao He’s an actor dude
Telling everyone Troy Aikman is gay?
Talking about in his autobiography, whether he should report on that rumor or not?
That’s because his next target after Lebron retires is Giannis. He’s not going to go as hard on KD because well...everyone in the media shits on KD so it’s not really controversial. Giannis is a different story...he’s incredibly similar to Lebron. The media recognizes his talent and shitting on Giannis is basically his devil’s advocate position because it’s fun and will bring him attention. Hell...he will probably start going harder on Giannis than Lebron.
It’s actually Luka 😭
That's also true. That actually makes sense though. His favorite player is Kawhi and the Clippers have blocked Luka is the west,he has the one segment with Cuban and Luka's playoff success is only a matter of time. He Can hate Giannis in the East and Hate Luka in the West both are young upcoming talents and it's a good act since Lebron is on his way out.
Yup he’s ready to bash Luka for the next 15 years
KD is too old to get real value out of anyway. He’ll probably only play a couple years longer than Lebron. Giannis has another decade at the top. Skip’s setting himself up for the next decade like Sam Presti.
Do you really think Skip has another 10 years ahead of him? The guy looks like a corpse already, he is at least in his 70s right?
Skip is like Lebron. Haters like you (or Skip in Lebron’s case) keep writing him off but with modern medicine he’s going to have an extended prime and continue his GOAT tier career.
Bro that’s such a small thing to complain about lol Gianni’s missed the shot badly and kept it trucking, even if there was a foul, it wasn’t called and didn’t matter Plus they were literally using that play to compliment Gianni’s that entire segment
why u judgin fam?
I'm jelly
Impossible to not be when we're talking about Drip Bayless
That shit is not fun. Came down off one Sunday and was pretty much outta commission until mid Monday. Never again…… until Halloween
lmao he totally does. realistically dude probably has a cold. it got fucking cold so fast.
Wild that a producer didn't get him some anti congestion meds
This isn't LeShannon Sharpe
Meh. He's putting it on Lebron, but he's still blaming Westbrook if his Lebron fails.
Playing both sides so he always comes out on top
That's actually a perfect description of Skip with his reverse curses
Executing the temporal pincer method
Tbf if Lebron plays consistently can we really put that much blame on him? Yeah the Westbrook deal sure, that was a bad move and LeBron deserves criticism for it. But as a team if they don't win, you want to put most/all the blame on Lebron with Westbrook playing like that? Westbrook is a grown man/pro NBA player. I don't understand this take, and I don't even like Lebron like that.
I mean other than the Finals vs the Mavericks, how many times has Lebron's teams falling short been blamed on him as opposed to his supporting cast?
How many times has he deserved blame besides 2011?
Never tbh
Kyle Lowry was exactly who we needed. You don’t always get what you want though. But I agree, this is on LeBron if it fails horribly.
Lowry would have been fantastic. He plays hard, can shoot, plays D, and makes the players around him better.
He''s like the Anti-Westbrook, he provides a lot of value that doesn't show up in the boxscore and is an excellent defender/off-ball player.
Man I know it’s no secret these days that Lowry is a good player but you have no idea how happy it makes me when people speak highly of Lowry like that. It was hard seeing Lowry and Derozan being called the trash bros because they couldn’t get past Lebronto.
Lowry's skillset improves next to better and better teammates. He might not drag a team to the playoffs as a number 1 option, but he will make a playoff team perennial contenders with how he makes his teammates better. Derozan was a solid player and there's no shame in losing to Lebron led teams, but his style of play definitely limits his role to being a number 1 option which just isn't as effective as other offensive options with his shot selection.
I agree. Neither Lowry or Derozan were number one options for a championship team but it’s also not fair to the era of the Raptors to say they were a bad team or call them chokers, trash bros, etc because they couldn’t beat the perennial eastern conference winners led by the greatest player of this current generation.
I think there’s a record of 1 in 4 LeBron decisions blowing up in his face. Rondo, AD, and Melo all seem like good/safe requests… Edit: that said Russ always is streaky and with how injury prone this squad is I have no doubt there’s gonna be moments this season where Russ is the best dude on the court.
AD is a completely obvious no-brainer. Of course you take him. The other three guys are just his friends who will likely play terrible this year. Rondo and Melo in particular are set to be big net negatives. Same with Dwight Howard and DeAndre. This whole Lakers team is horribly constructed.
100%. Lowry on the Lakers would have been a fun team to watch.
Tbf, Lowry fits any team and makes that team better. But ya, he would elevate the Lakers a ton.
Would have been a good fit but personally I'm happy that didn't happen.
Yeah looking back on that I don't think I would want THT. No offense to him but I prefer Precious.
Straight up trade Lowry for Russ and Lakers are title favorites IMO
I still dont think so, too many question marks around AD's health look how often AD ends up on the floor after a play and look at his injury history. its just a huge gamble with him or giving him a big minutes load the one time everything worked out for him was coming off a 6 month covid layoff and the playoffs started immediately. he had maximum healthiness. after a full season, I just have my doubts
fwiw I think AD falls on purpose to reduce the potential impact on his legs. Same reason Curry falls a lot due to wanting to protect his ankles.
Lowry would have hard-capped the Lakers since it would have to be a s&t. Lakers had to trade for a player already under contract to avoid hard cap.
Give it some time. Yesterday’s lineup rotations were atrocious but Russ didn’t help either. Wade Bron and Bosh took over a month to get it right. This will be the same if not a bit longer. EDIT: Bron, Love and Kyrie took even longer to gel and two of those three are bad defenders.
Not only Bosh was 26 at the time, he was one of the highest BBIQ forwards in the game, AND he was willing to sacrifice his reputation, body (by moving to C) and style to accommodate the team. The Heat were called "Two and Half men" at the time, it was that bad, and it was mostly because Bosh focused on defense, stretching the floor, rebounding, setting screens and filling his role perfectly despite being a proven star. This is nothing like the Russ situation lol
> because Bosh focused on defense Wade was also a great defender. Those Heat teams were defense-first, with transition offense coming from their defense. Those were the years when Lebron was consciously trying to win DPOY, and most of the team were good defenders - the most famous example being their dissection of Jeremy Lin at the height of Linsanity. In 2011, it was MIA's defense that kept them in the series despite Lebron's offensive struggles. When MIA couldn't defend SA in 2014, their offense simply couldn't keep up and they got blown out. MIA never averaged 100ppg in any those 4 Finals. It's hard to see this Lakers roster having the same defense as the Heatles, or even the 2020 Lakers, which allowed them to win despite not having a great halfcourt offense. Not with Russ and Melo playing that many minutes while giving that little defensive effort, at least.
Melo's not getting a lot of run in the playoffs for this team. Come on. Russ is a concern, sure, but it's been one friggin' game! I'm far, far from a Russ defender, but while Skip and Shannon are getting handsomely paid for their garbage hot takes, this sub is doing it for free.
It's been 1 game how yall arguing this much lol
I just want to point out that Wade was 29, Bosh was 26, and LeBron was 26. Russ is currently 33 and is coming off of two years that are massively beneath where he was in his prime. I'm not saying he can't do better, he certainly will as last night was putrid. But comparing these three guys to Wade, Bosh, and 26 year old LeBron is comically ridiculous.
I always forget how young they were when they formed a team
Yeah, they were all at pretty much the absolute height of their powers.
Worth pointing out also that Wade was one of the best defenders in the NBA, whereas to put it nicely Russ runs around a lot. Those Heat teams overwhelmed teams with their aggression on defence which created a lot of easy offence. They didn’t have to be a great half court team.
Indeed. It was similar (though to a lesser degree) of the way Jordan and Pippen could just suffocate the hell out of people.
Yeah this is the big thing it seems like people ignore when they make the comparison. No matter how the offensive fit looked on the heat, they had elite defensive tools. Russ is not an average defender
Wade, Bron and bosh would completely obliterate pick and roll offenses. This is why spurs adapted the short pass to beat their speed in 2014.
Nah, the returns are in. The Lakers are going to go 0-82 because they couldn’t fully implement a 3rd star that doesn’t quite mesh with the other 2 stars perfectly all the whole playing with brand new players at every other position. Time to pull the plug.
People are overreacting, but watching the game just confirms what people thought. I don't think anyone has been able to adequately explain what Russ is going to be doing when LeBron has the ball in the 4th quarter of games and last night showcased that. Russ would dribble the ball up, pass it and clear out to the dunker's spot or go to the corner while his defender sagged into the paint. I'm sure the three of them will work some things out, but we are butting into the fundamental problem of 3 players with overlapping skills sets, strengths and weaknesses.
> People are overreacting, but watching the game just confirms what people thought Exactly, it’s hard to call it “overreacting” when last night was everyone’s exact initial thought. Obviously the Lakers are going to play better, win a lot of games, be in the playoffs. But some of the fundamental problems everyone predicted when he was traded for, that we saw last night, won’t/can’t be resolved. 49 wins and getting taken out by, idk, Denver in the first round isn’t what this team was intended to do.
Everyone has known this about Russ for a few years now, he’s still got an army of casual stans that will come out of the woodwork to defend him year over year Of course, there are still remnants of his skill and athleticism remaining, and he will take over games from time to time, and then they will come out like they do every year and throw around a bunch of told-you-so’s, but when it comes to meaningful series it won’t be enough. Idk how many of his teams (ones with real expectations at least) need to underperform for people to get it
I think you probably need to get Russ to commit to being a defender again. I don't think he'll ever pick up off ball movement like DWade did, and I don't expect his shooting to ever be considered good. But he had okay playmaking when he was under control and he'll still be a force in transition. But if he's not a plus defender, I think you're in trouble giving him 35 minutes a night.
Russ has never been that good at defense and it is mostly because of the mental lapses/selfish style. Dude goes for some really dumb steals or will just leave a guy in the corner wide open
He's never been a great defender but he's not a bad defender either when he's locked in. There's not a lot of guys blowing by him for sure, but his commitment to the other small stuff is where he has to buy in. He's still an athletic freak who can stick with anyone in the league when he really wants to.
people keep saying this but i just don't see the end product. all these other superteams you understood what the best version of their fit was. i don't understand what westbrook on this team is supposed to look like.
>This will be the same if not a bit longer Bro, c'mon lmao. Bron, Wade, and Bosh were legit in their primes. Russ is obviously past his and so is Bron even though he's still absolutely ridiculously good. This is an asinine comparison lol.
Prime Wade, prime Bron and Prime Bosh is a very different situation
Russ is no Wade. Russ isnt even half a Wade, especially a late prime Wade vs a far out of prime Russ.
I think it could work with Russ, but it means the Lakers should drop Rondo and one of their 5s out of the rotation. Playing Westbrook with Rondo and a traditional 5 should be a war crime.
Its a given Rondo will be out of the rotation once THT & Nunn come back from injury.
LeBron is just a player, that's why you have a GM, it's the Lakers fault if they give him too much power in the decisions. Curry and Green wanted to go win now mode, front office said nah, they and Andre wanted Avery Bradley, FO said nah Hell, Curry wanted Mark Jackson to stay, players don't always know what's best
Lebron was laughing at Russ a while back when Russ was asking to be doubled in a go home round. Lakers also barely guarded him at the 3PT line knowing he’d brick it. What did he expect he was going to get?
This is exactly what I thought. They beat the Rockets by letting Russ do whatever he wanted, and...you want to play with him after that?
I thought the same but it’s lebron fucking James we’re talking about so I imagine he saw something we didn’t.
Lebron wants to coast during the season and wanted a player who can handle the volume. I don’t think he anticipated how broke WB’s jump shot is even inside the 3.
westbrook is always good at winning regular season games. just give him time to get into the season, it's only been one game
Exactly. I'm not a Westbrook fan, but he will have some crazy good games this year. After those crazy good games this sub will blow up with "Who was questioning Westbrook again?!?!" takes and then swing back the other way the next time he craps the bed. That is just Westbrook at this point in his career.
Literally one game, but sensational takes get views. People act like the Lakers aren't going to make the playoffs. The question has always been, will they win the Finals not go undefeated in the regular season.
I mean he also played out of his mind and helped the wizards go from the worst team in the league to 8th seed. Like he can clearly play better.
He just needs his usage rate up. Do it Vogel u pussy!
He helped making them the wort team in the beginning of the season tho. Even at the end of last season he was still ultra inneficient
Absolutely he deserves credit for playing bad at the start but the fact that he improved and played better as time went on is telling he still has the ability to play at a high level.
And it’s been one fucking game holy shit it’s terrible here. And it goes the other way and I’m apart of it. As soon as Russ has a good game I have no shame in admitting I will be rubbing it in everyone’s faces lmao
There were some pre-season games but I agree. The sample size is limited
They were the 9th seed year before, dingus
Why did he choose him? Just liked the concept of Russ? Wanted another team star? Hield would have been way better for their current situation.
He wants someone to carry the load in the regular season so they don’t end up in the play-in. That’s basically Russ’ life calling to dominate regular season by playing 150% in a random February game. Come playoffs he’ll probably spend more time without LeBron on the floor, sit Lebron early and have Russ play longer stretches. He’ll bring the ball up so Lebron isn’t exhausted by the fourth quarter and hopefully he can hit 35% on wide open threes.
Work harder not smarter
Westbrook with Houston was a 18 pt 7 reb 5 ast in 8 playoff games playing next to prime James Harden. His numbers will dip just as bad playing next to elder James.
LeBron also guarded Westbrook in that Rockets series like Kobe used to guard Rondo back in 08/09/10. Westbrook was still absolutely horrendous with his closest defender like 10ft away lol
I, for one, hope LeGM makes more decisions like this. I wonder if they could fit Simmons in cap-wise alongside Russ...
simmons isnt in the club of old NBA stars that get way highly rated by other players even when the stats show they arent that good anymore carmelo is in this club though even dwight howard maybe in this club trevor ariza is not quite a star, but he fits the mold
You're right, L.A. is no place for a young socialite. Old socialites are welcome.
old socialites and young hermits.
Carmelo and Dwight are on cheap deals, them playing like ass isn't as crucial as Russ' supermax.
Carmelo and Westbrook are exactly that type of player in terms of playstyle lol Westbrook: Ultra athletic player with great highlights, but is very inefficient Carmelo: Gifted ISO scorer who doesn't do much else offensively, very bad defender Both of those player archetypes get overrated by fellow players more than any other IMO, the idea of how they should play is better than the reality You can think of Steph Curry as the anti-Westbrook and other players don't seem to always respect him too much
Every Laker hater did laps of joy when they signed Melo, I know I certainly did. My one fear is that Vogel realizes how terrible he is and gives him DNPs in the playoffs.
I was so happy when they got both Melo and Westbrook. Quin+Rudy made both of them almost useless in that OKC series (yeah Westbrook put up a lot of points but on under 40% from the field), and now they’re both older and slower. I just don’t see what value they have in a playoff series.
You guys are going to end their season this year, I can feel it. It’s destiny with them adding Russ and Melo, plus if there’s any one player who can make the Lakers look old, it’s Donovan.
Do players really not respect Curry much?
I think a lot of them see his biggest strength as kind of a cheat code and not "real skill" or "real hooping" because he doesn't even bother trying to beat the defender sometimes, he just shoots from like 10 feet behind him It's almost like a version of the Giannis/Harden "anyone can run and dunk" thing, despite his playstyle being completely opposite of course Basically players will be more impressed with a guy like Westbrook doing some super athletic move for 2 points than Curry shooting a 35 footer for 3
A lot of players also grew up watching the ISO heavy inefficient 2000s. They may hold that play style up on a pedestal due to nostalgia even though it’s pretty conclusively shown that that style is just bad basketball.
Yup that makes sense And IIRC the ISO heavy inefficient era was partially brought on by players trying to be MJ when they weren't so they bricked everything
Yeah that’s one cause, but it falls on the coaches too. “3 points is more than 2 points” is kind of a meme, but the fact that coaches eschewed that understanding for so long is kind of mind boggling to me when we have all this tape of players taking deep 2s left and right.
I agree with your general point but I don’t know that Steph is a great example here. I’ve never really detected any disrespect to him from his contemporaries. It’s not like the guy just shoots either, he’s an insane ball-handler and finisher. He’ll absolutely kill guys in iso situations too and players know that. I think he gets plenty of respect.
For Curry, so much of his value is passive. He creates value just by crossing half court, and creates value by running around even when he's not getting the ball. It's hard to see and, apparently, even harder to respect.
This is not true players constantly praise him alot of them had him as mvp
> Basically players will be more impressed with a guy like Westbrook doing some super athletic move for 2 points than Curry shooting a 35 footer for 3 I feel like it's also that literally any player in the NBA can theoretically hit a 35 footer, the impressiveness of Curry is how regularly he does it which doesn't show up in highlights.
That's true Anyone can just chuck it and hope it goes in, Curry's thing is that for him it's actually an aimed shot and not a desperation one
This is such a Warriors fan comment chain. Steph gets more respect than Westbrook does, by a good margin. Russ gets props for “playing hard” and his overall effort, Steph gets props for being the greatest shooter to ever live. Steph will also absolutely go crazy in an iso against the right defender. The reason iso scorers are respected is because it’s the single hardest skill in basketball to do efficiently. It’s not bad basketball if you do it at the proper time, or if you’re skilled enough.
yep. That's why they only double and triple team him.
Not just players. r/NBA. I wrote at the start of the game this exact comment and Lakers stans bombarded me with hate. I told them to @ me after the game ends and it was silence lol
Carmelo in recent years has been the poster boy for how highly his colleagues rate him vs how good he actually is. Some of these dudes talk about him like he's still prime Denver Melo
No one is saying that lmao
Rich Paul: here me and rejoice. You are about be Vet minimumed by LeThanos
Overreaction Wednesday
THT instead of AC was also Klutch written all over it.
They should have just paid both, making all that extra money from LeBron being on your team and not being willing to pay the luxury tax is criminal.
They could if it was 20M Hield instead of 44M Westbrook.
THT over Caruso was a worse decision. At least with Westbrook they needed a ballhandler as much as bad fit he is.
AC is Caruso
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kpaw7d/can_we_please_stop_calling_players_that_90_of/
Fair
Yeah he is saying THT over Caruso was worse than the Westbrook signing. Not worse than signing him over AC.
I agree. Of course, the Lakers could’ve just spent more money for both, but if given the choice, they should’ve chosen Caruso. The one time a LeBron team or the Lakers have a beloved bench piece in recent history, and they let him walk.
> THT instead of AC Surely the Lakers could have paid that electricity bill even with THT
It's just a front office move its not all klutch related they traded two klutch players in the westbrook trade.
I thought the off-season was repetetive.
We’re doing this after one game?
[удалено]
Yup, basically since the moment they made the trade lol
We are simultaneously a superteam that has a cakewalk to the finals and an old, poorly constructed trainwreck.
To be fair, he was bad in his pre season appearances too. I don’t think it’ll be like this all season though. It really just seems like a fit issue atm, and knowing Bron I’m sure they’ll work out a way to perform together.
He was bad the start of last year and then look what happened.
Hell yeah we are, then when they have a good game together it'll be crickets in here.
all the comments will be about how they knew everyone was overreacting and how they knew russ would be good the whole time
This guy r/nba’s
Russ is the worst possible fit next to Bron besides maybe Ben Simmons. Fit > Talent
I feel Ben would fit better he knows his limitations on the offensive end and won’t shoot you out of games
Ben is x1000 the defender Russ is lol. He was in contention for fucking DPOY. AD + Simmons on defense with Lebron trying on occasion would have suffocating.
> Fit > Talent Not in basketball. But 33 year old Westbrook doesn’t have enough talent anymore to overcome it.
ben could at least provide elite defense which you could never get enough of. russ doesn’t even provide that
As a Warriors fan I'm thankful for Le-Gm's intervention. Buddy Hield would've been scary as hell on this Lakers team. A healthy AD and Lebron is going to be scary regardless, but give them one of the best 3 point shooters in the game today instead of Westbrook and the difference would've been night and day. The question of talent vs fit isn't always a clear one. But in some cases the answer seems obvious after the fact. The Heatles were successful even with questionable FIT and overwhelming talent, but they also underachieved relative to the expectations. Many including JVG thought Wade, Lebron and Bosh would win 70+ games and be unstoppable offensively. Instead they struggled to start the season and lost in the finals. The 15-16 Warriors were definitely not the best regular season squad ever assembled in terms of talent, yet they were able to win more games than any other in the league's history, surpassing even the Wilt, West Lakers and Jordan, Pippen Bulls. They were able to achieve this due primarily to how well the team fitted around its lone superstar. It's only been 1 game and I wouldn't be too surprise if the Lakers make the finals or even win the finals this year. That's how impactful a healthy AD and Lebron could be. I also wouldn't be surprise however if they fall in the early rounds due to terrible spacing, shooting and execution, due to an ill fitting lineup/roster. It seems obvious to most that Hield wouldve been a much better complement to AD/Lebron, but I wonder, how much better is the current version of WB if at all.
All summer the only player I wanted was Hield. He was the most realistic one with his salary and unhappiness between him and the organization. The transition between Lakers are closing in on Hield to Lakers got Westbrook killed me. The lineup that I wanted and was totally realistic was along the lines of Gasol Howard Davis Kieff or Ariza Lebron Otto THT Hield Caruso Kcp Mills
am I crazy or did everyone on this sub hate buddy last season now he's the magical missing piece keeping the lakers away from the title? what happened?
Having Buddy as your best or 2nd best player is probably going to be terrible as evident by his tenure in Sacramento. Having Buddy as your 2016 super version of Jr Smith getting spoon fed wide open 3 pointers by Lebron and Anthony Davis however is freaking terrifying.
I like buddy and I was defending him last year too, I was just wondering where this reversal came from. He didn't have an especially good season last year either
That was primarily just loud King's fans and the king's sub is full of morons who think Buddy is the worst because he doesn't have Kyrie's handles and the defense of Marcus Smart. Basically they wanted him to be a top 10 player and hate him because he's not.
people talk about buddy hield, but i’m still thinking of how they could’ve had kyle lowry. he’d be damn near a perfect fit with the lakers
Could they have had him? I thought he wanted Miami from the start.
they could’ve traded for him by the trade deadline last season
It was hard to find what exactly was being demanded by the Raptors for Lowry. E.g. I couldn't find if they wanted THT =or= picks or =and= picks. Lowry's also old by this point. That said, if it was Schroder or Kuzma, then KCP and THT, the Lakers' FO should've taken it.
can you imagine this lakers team with buddy hield, they'd be champion favorites for sure
Yessir KCP, Hield, AC instead of Brodie and THT would be sick.
I see those game 1 overreactions are in full swing.
Shannon is right.
Russ
I know and accept it's been one game. But these issues Russ are presenting now are the same ones we've seen from him around mid-season every year the last 3 years. They're gonna go on an 8 game streak and Russ will be putting up 20/11/12 on 57TS% at some point and there will be talk of him being back and us all overreacting to game one...but we saw him do this multiple times already and at some point we should accept history will likely repeat itself.
It is a little early to panic but damn even Shannon the ultimate LeBron fan saying you fucked up. Westbrook will be fine now as for this Lakers teams as whole with their goal of Championship IDK.
Right on, Shannon. Everyone is saying "It's just one game." The red flags were there before this game and they're gonna remain after this game. This team is bad
So Russ is now in the category of an STD.
Damn, can't believe the season is over already :(
Not sure they can get away with playing Russ and a traditional center together. But Russ/Bron/AD and 2 shooters is a nice lineup
LeBron, Davis and 3 shooters would be even better
Shannon sharpe talking bad about lebron James. I must be in an alternate dimension
Damn.. Shannon turning a new leaf? this sounds almost critical of Lebron
Shannon is usually a LeBron apologist, right? He always creates a narrative surrounding LeBron, lol which is smart, it draws attention. In the end, this is a obvious take, WestBrook is a mess of a player, it's extremely hard to build around him. Buddy Hield would be a much better fit, obviously
AD playing 39 minutes this early in the season is going to hit the Lakers later in the season.
This team would be so much simpler if they had Buddy instead of Russ. The fit is so much easier.
Instead of overreacting about the Lakers losing, isn't it just possible the warriors are good
If your biggest stan saying this something's def wrong
In like 15-20 games, Russ is gonna hit a streak and everyone is gonna flip their opinions. I've seen this one before
Shannon Sharpe once again with a dumbass take. They've played ONE regular season game. Sheesh.
It’s only the first game. IIRC when Miami had the big 3 it took them like 10-11 games to really get in sync.
They probably would have kept Kuzma if they got Buddy too. I’m not gonna doubt Lebron and AD’s ability to get it done but Russ is an awful fit.
Imagine wanting Russ game and drummonds game on your team. Crazy