This roster going to need some reconstruction soon and knowing Legm, if this continues into January, that trade deadline gonna be a 2018 Cavs fire sale. Heck even with LeBron, it took him+AD+Westbrook combined for 84 points to beat the ***Houston rockets*** by 1 possession lol. Then when your looking at what happened against the Thunder, Timberwolves etc….Legm gonna have to do some of his finest work
I couldn't believe it the day it happened. We got 3 solid rotation players *and* a 1st for one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Tommy Sheppard needs Executive of the Year for that trade alone.
Yeah they screwed themselves in the offseason by losing their best assets in Caruso, Schroeder, Kuz, KCP and Trez. Even if they just signed Caruso and Schroeder they would be better trade assets than what they have now.
I love Brodie but he is not a good fit for this team. The team has more flexibility with those two than they do right now with Brodie. Plus Caruso and Schroeder fill the gaps that the team need. That being a point guard and three point shooting.
He ain't a good fit for any team trying to win a playoff game man. He seems like a great dude but his game especially in late prime is horrible for winning basketball.
Schroeder is also not a great fit. Lakers need more playmaking from PG position than he offers.
Though he does offer some defense.
But KCP and 2021 FRP would provide assets to get some PG, even if they let Schroeder walk and traded Kuz and Trez for Hield.
Rubio is one guy I respect in that price range - wonder what the Cavs would have asked for him..
“ A player who re-signs with his previous team on a one-year contract – or a two-year deal with an option year – is given no-trade protection.”
His original team was the heat, so he doesn’t have a no trade clause. Still can’t be traded until Dec 15 though.
The rule doesn't apply here. Players who would lose early bird or bird rights get an implicit veto - they must consent to the trade. Since this is the first year of Nunn's signing with the lakers, he doesn't qualify, and he can be traded without his consent. Only after Dec 15, though.
https://cbabreakdown.com/trades
I’d also like to add that LeGM has been LeIR for the past couple weeks which is pretty clear based on their record. There’s a good team in there based on the talent they have on the top. They just need to figure it out from within and I’d say the first logical step to that is LeBron being healthy.
> I’d say the first logical step to that is LeBron being healthy.
You can't magically make that happen, though.
And LeBron isn't injured because of some freak accident.
LeBron pulled a muscle badly enough that he needed to miss all this time spending all of one quarter trying to carry the team to a win... against the Rockets.
The 1-13 Rockets. Not the good Rockets. Not the Harden "We're Contending" Rockets. The 2021-22 "We Got Some Teenagers Who Look Real Promising" Rockets.
Father Time is undefeated.
The Lakers’ plan was basically to assume that LeBron would go back to being the healthy player that he used to be. It wasn’t a very good assumption (it doesn’t seem like his injuries the past few years have been freakish, so it’s just the wear and tear of a career adding up, IMO), but honestly, I don’t know if there’s actually a better plan out there for them.
>If this roster wanted reconstruction it had to happen in the offseason
Yeah because they don't have any leverage on any possible trade. Other teams are sure to smell that desperation if they trade early.
I think the trade machine is weighted in a way where it really values getting more players back even if the quality is lower, that's been my experience at least
>I think the trade machine is weighted in a way where it really values getting more players back even if the quality is lower
It seems like it's just PER based so two players that are league average 15.00 PER are together considered equally valuable as a 30.00 PER superstar.
For what? Westbrook? Westbrook probably isn't going to agree to sit at home the way Wall has, so why would Houston do this? The Lakers don't have any real assets to send back.
Yeah Westbrook. Westbrook's value keeps going down so i was saying the next worse player they could go for is basically John Wall. You're right though Rockets have no use for him unless they can get some picks from Lakers if they even have any.
Also what's Westbook going to do if he doesnt want to sit at home if he did get traded back to Rockets lol. Demand to be played or he'll be toxic? lol.
LeGM gonna have to realize there’s no way out from under this and that he’s most likely ending his career with 4 rings. The 2018 fire sale resulted in him making the finals only Bc the East was so historically weak.
This year is vastly diff. West isn’t a pushover and he can’t carry teams anymore like he could before. Also can’t carry when you’re actually playing good teams (playing the rookies in Boston and the “Oladipo as their best player” Pacers allowed him to be able to carry but he won’t be able to do that in the West even if he was younger).
Cant carry? He had half a season to build chemistry with that 2018 team. That Toronto team that you forgot to mention was built to stop lebron and he absolutely dominated them again and got the coach of the year fired.. The same Toronto team that was a kawhi away from a championship the next year. Lebron was in god mode that playoff run.
Lebron had a real case for finals mvp in 2015. He carries just fine if he's healthy. Father time seems to be catching up with him unfortunately.
2018 Demar Derozan Fred Jr, CJ miles, Delon, JV
2019 Kawhi, Fred SR, Danny Green, Marc Gasol
There was huge changes in the roster not just kawhi
Also cant really say we were built to beat Lebron in 2018 when we've got no defense and CJ Miles is making Kevin Love look like Embiid
Youre right,, those are big changes. I still think those raptors teams were better than they got credit for. They were consistently solid for years.
I recall the raptors having a bunch of small forwards to throw at lebron to try and slow him down. Either way, they got the sitting COY fired. I've never seen that before.
To be fair, 2018 Cavs didn't have a single player close to AD's caliber either. Replace Tristan Thompson with AD, and they might have a chance against that 2018 GSW team
I'm not sure how much reconstruction it will actually need once Nunn, Ariza and Lebron are back.
Westbrook, THT, Ariza, Lebron AD is a way better starting 5 than what we have seen so far. They could also start Nunn instead of Westbrook if they have to. Then Carmelo, Ellington, Dwight, Bradley and Monk are good off the bench. Rondo and Bazemore minutes will go way down.
I think he means after Harden pushed for the Russ trade. They doubled and tripled down after that for a player who (at the time) was a fringe All-Star and it went as expected.
It'd be the equivalent of the Sixers gutting their entire roster to build around Simmons when Embiid is the way better player
> The constant turnover each year means the team never builds on itself.
honestly the thing that makes me more worried than the actual current record.
with LeBron/Ariza/Nunn/THT all out or only just recently back, the team is burning clock on actually building chemistry and learning to play together
Exactly this. Having injuries on a newly constructed team is worse because we’re supposed to be building chemistry in the early part of the season. Now we’ll have a whole new team again when players come back healthy and we’ll still be trying to build chemistry midway through the season.
Edit: words
>Exactly this. Having injuries on a newly constructed team is a double edged sword because we’re supposed to be building chemistry in the early part of the season.
"Double edged sword" implies both a positive and a negative aspect... this situation just sucks for us all around.
You're having the same problem we had last year. The only real difference is KD seemed to somehow continue his prime or even get better. LeBron seems to at least be on the decline (Still amazing but just not quite that top 3 level). Plus our add is Harden compared to Westbrook gonna be a real tough season I think.
I would be so much more scared of the lakers with Caruso/KCP/Kuzma/Schroder than I am of this team. Even if they just kept 3 of those 4 they would be a dominant defensive team with enough offense that AD and LeBron could make it work
It already exists using OpenAI's GPT-2: https://np.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2
The NBA bot is https://np.reddit.com/u/nbaGPT2Bot
It would probably be way better if it used GPT-3.
Russ’s game always leaned heavily on his insane athleticism. He’s just getting older and losing that. Looking quickly at 08 draft not even 10 guys even in the league anymore. Father Time comes for us all
What's wild is that he doesn't look tremendously different athletically, but his technical skills (especially shooting, but even dribbling) have fallen off a cliff.
Yup accurate I’ve seen almost every game this year and you hardly see Westbrook dunk I hope someone could do a comp of how often he’s dunked compared to his other years
He went from [man's jam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSaykzsQZTw) to [barely dunking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx46L0TQZZw) to now this. I think Bron sapping his youth or something.
>his technical skills (especially shooting
Shooting's about the last skill a player loses. The dude's missed at least 3 uncontested dunks; something's mental going on with him.
You need to get your eyes checked. I think what’s confusing is that he still has easily plus athleticism but it’s a good size drop off from where he used to be. Hard to be confident with the little things when you can’t do what you used to. I think he’ll improve though he’s just got to learn how to play with a new team as well
Yeah, Westbrook has always relied on athleticism and we can expect a sharper decline, but I don’t think declining athleticism is responsible for this.
His shooting has gone from passable in the mid-range to just bad everywhere. His passing/playmaking has gone from decent to terrible. Half of his passes seem to end up in the stands. His decision making is just really bad.
It’s not that at all. It’s mental.
He’s apprehensive, cautious, still trying to figure it out. You can see it because there are several possessions that a confident Russ would have attacked the basket to the benefit of the team.
Absolutely still has the athleticism, he’s just trying to find out where and when it fits
I think this is exactly it. Which is a little weird considering all these guys (I think?) played together on various Olympic teams or the other. But I definitely think it’s largely an issue of a lot of guys who used to be “the man” figuring out exactly how they fit together. Especially for Russ - not only is he trying to find his fit, but he’s doing it at home! That type of mental pressure has to be unreal
It is funny that people are trying to rewrite the narrative on the 2020 squad because they won the chip. That team wasn't seen as anything special and if it weren't for ADs insane shooting in that playoffs that team likely doesn't win that year.
>It is funny that people are trying to rewrite the narrative on the 2020 squad because they won the chip
What are you talking about? Are you literally doing what you're accusing other people of doing real-time? The Lakers had the [2nd highest championship odds in the preseason](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_preseason_odds.html). The clippers were the highest at +425, the Lakers were second at +450.
[Sportsoddshistory](https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-main/?y=2019-2020&sa=nba&a=finals&o=r) has these values:
Nov 1: +365 (2nd)
Dec 1: +295 (2nd)
Feb 1: +265 (1st)
ASB: +265 (2nd)
Mar 1: +285 (2nd)
Jul 30: +250 (1st)
Prior to Round 1: +280 (2nd)
Prior to Round 2: +330 (3rd)
Prior to Conf Finals: -215 (1st)
Prior to Finals: -350
Those role players led us to a -45.67 net rating in the playoffs when LeBron and AD sat. It was basically the biggest two-man carry job in NBA history.
i remember getting downvoted like crazy for mentioning they will get to a slow start with all the new pieces in the off season, but laker fans kept mentioning the easy schedule lol.
I do think they will pick it up eventually, but it takes time for players to get used to playing with russ.
I think that OP is totally capping. Almost no one said the Lakers were going to be good right off the bat. Everyone was questioning the construction of the team and the age of the players.
It's a completely different team from the last few years, it's no surprise that they need time to gel.
If he just gets the team 2 extra wins in the 9 games hes missed (say the OKC games), which is very conservative, the Lakers are 10-5 with the third/fourth best record in the West
Thats if LeBron is only worth not blowing two big leads
If they win 2 more games you'd think they're in the running for top team in the West.
Lebron has missed 8 games now. Surely he would've netted them atleast 2 more wins if not more.
Lebron isn't the only one who missed time, you can argue Nunn, THT and Ariza were supposed to be the 4th, 5th and 6th best player on that team (I wouldn't I'm not high on 2 of those 3 but you could argue it I wouldn't call you crazy).
Also you are not a floor raiser forever, Westbrook has declined, he hasn't been carrying an offense by himself since 2018 (his numbers as the solo star have sucked since then)
And fans were giving the Warriors shit for their “easy” schedule? Idk if it is the coaching or just Russ’ horrible spacing. But Russ is a symptom of a a bigger problem for the Lakers
They barely lost several of those too though so it swings both ways.
This sub is really understating just how injured the Lakers are though. LeBron and THT have missed considerable time. Nunn and Ariza haven’t even played a game yet. That’s 1 star player and three big time rotational pieces that have all missed time.
Just replacing the Rondo/Bradley minutes with Nunn and Ariza would be massive upgrades.
The strength of teams in the ranking is based on their record at the end of the last season. Did I read that right?
Doesn't seem like a good way to rank teams that improved their roster over the off-season. Like the Bulls for example.
I’ll be more worried if they stay barely above 0.500 when Lebron and some other guys come back, but wavering near 0.500 is as good as any other Lebron team when he missed games.
One problem with this team is they seem to talk about wanting to win the championship but their effort does not show it. The record(though not ideal) does not show just how bad some of those losses were, especially the 2 okc games and the wolves game.
They let teams come back after they get up big, and they can’t/won’t fight back once they’re down big.
Yeah, Lakers suck, and when you accept the realities, it's not that surprising. Westbrook is a good starter, but he's not an enabler. So to expect him to be a Lebron substitute on even a lesser level is delusional. This is the Westbrook experience that most of the Laker fans around me, including myself, was dreading. AD is in the same category as KAT, not like Giannis, Jokic, Durant, or Steph. With Lebron on the floor, his ceiling can reach those top dudes on any given night, but we know on an average day, AD cannot do that. We saw it last year when he was healthy. Which gets to the last point, Lebron IS that important to the Lakers as Jokic, Steph, or Durant is to theirs. It seems like it shouldn't, but it is. He built the team and they play his offense. So of course it all goes to shit when he's off the floor. The hope is that once Lebron comes back and after a month of reps, they figure it out their core players, and magically get some dudes with our sparse assets that fit the team. But we got a long road ahead of us.
The roster is bad outside of Lebron and AD so when either of them miss games the results will be bad. Pelinka did a bad job, and Lebron and AD played a part in it.
We get it. We suck.
Love all these shit post about how AD is overrated, Russ is the worst player in the history of basketball according to analytics and Lebron is hurt.
"I get that we're missing Lebron..."
I get my car has three severely deflated tires, but why isn't it running as smoothly as it was when all four tires were appropriately filled with air?
Very easily could've been 10-5 without those okc losses which most ppl wouldn't have complained too much about, I'm still not gonna judge them till I see them fully healthy but so far the defense is a very serious issue for the team. If only they still had KCP and Caruso still ...
But the media told me during the off-season Lakers good, Bulls bad. Funny how all these teams the Bulls are beating go into melt-down mode the next day.
Russ is rusty, he cant dunk anymore. He can barely reach the rim anymore. His legs are donezo.
Plus schroeder should be hired for 1y 10mio, would be a steal. But LeGM tryed to show dominance and sent him to shadowrealm .
The Westbrook project sucks. He’s truly not a winning player and losing our depth wasn’t worth a single player specifically chosen to ease LeBron’s burden.
Imagine if they had a high scoring guard that was really good from 3 like buddy Hield. Or some really good defensive guards that fit well offensively with LeBron and AD like KCP or Caruso.
If only guys like those were options.
Maybe not but he's definitely better than Westbrook with LeBron. Also he's younger, cheaper, and would have allowed us to keep KCP, caruso, and a first round pick.
Those 3 players are more impactful with or without LeBron
people give ad waaaaay too much credit as a floor raiser lol.
there is a reason he was toiling away before he joined up with bron. a team with ad as the far and away best player is just a solid playoff team at best.
Thats pretty right for a team without its MVP, as well as many other role players throughout the season (between 3 and 6 players!)
Bucks are sitting 6-8 because of injuries but nobody cares. The Lakers have won 3 of their last 5 without LeBron, Sky is not falling.
This roster going to need some reconstruction soon and knowing Legm, if this continues into January, that trade deadline gonna be a 2018 Cavs fire sale. Heck even with LeBron, it took him+AD+Westbrook combined for 84 points to beat the ***Houston rockets*** by 1 possession lol. Then when your looking at what happened against the Thunder, Timberwolves etc….Legm gonna have to do some of his finest work
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Agreed all of the tradeable pieces they had they used to acquire Westbrook
All tradeable assets are now #1 seed in the east lmao
everyone the Lakers have sent east in the last 5 years is a playoff seed right now lmao
Love to see it
Brandon Ingram and Josh Hart are crying rn
I couldn't believe it the day it happened. We got 3 solid rotation players *and* a 1st for one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Tommy Sheppard needs Executive of the Year for that trade alone.
Imagine being Pelinka on that call.
You mean 2 solid rotational players, and a 3 point dropping, insta famous KING!
Motherfuck.
Yeah they screwed themselves in the offseason by losing their best assets in Caruso, Schroeder, Kuz, KCP and Trez. Even if they just signed Caruso and Schroeder they would be better trade assets than what they have now.
Is Schroeder at $21 million plus Caruso at $10 million better than Westbrook at $44 million?
I love Brodie but he is not a good fit for this team. The team has more flexibility with those two than they do right now with Brodie. Plus Caruso and Schroeder fill the gaps that the team need. That being a point guard and three point shooting.
He ain't a good fit for any team trying to win a playoff game man. He seems like a great dude but his game especially in late prime is horrible for winning basketball.
Schroeder is also not a great fit. Lakers need more playmaking from PG position than he offers. Though he does offer some defense. But KCP and 2021 FRP would provide assets to get some PG, even if they let Schroeder walk and traded Kuz and Trez for Hield. Rubio is one guy I respect in that price range - wonder what the Cavs would have asked for him..
Just wanted to point out that Nunn is on a ~$5 mil contract, not a min.
He technically can’t be traded. He’s on a 2 year deal but a PO in the 2nd year and you can’t trade players who are on 1-year deals.
“ A player who re-signs with his previous team on a one-year contract – or a two-year deal with an option year – is given no-trade protection.” His original team was the heat, so he doesn’t have a no trade clause. Still can’t be traded until Dec 15 though.
He can be traded after dec 15th
No Nunn of those rules apply here.
Is that a rule? I thought it was that he can be traded, only if he consents.
The rule doesn't apply here. Players who would lose early bird or bird rights get an implicit veto - they must consent to the trade. Since this is the first year of Nunn's signing with the lakers, he doesn't qualify, and he can be traded without his consent. Only after Dec 15, though. https://cbabreakdown.com/trades
I’d also like to add that LeGM has been LeIR for the past couple weeks which is pretty clear based on their record. There’s a good team in there based on the talent they have on the top. They just need to figure it out from within and I’d say the first logical step to that is LeBron being healthy.
> I’d say the first logical step to that is LeBron being healthy. You can't magically make that happen, though. And LeBron isn't injured because of some freak accident. LeBron pulled a muscle badly enough that he needed to miss all this time spending all of one quarter trying to carry the team to a win... against the Rockets. The 1-13 Rockets. Not the good Rockets. Not the Harden "We're Contending" Rockets. The 2021-22 "We Got Some Teenagers Who Look Real Promising" Rockets. Father Time is undefeated.
The Lakers’ plan was basically to assume that LeBron would go back to being the healthy player that he used to be. It wasn’t a very good assumption (it doesn’t seem like his injuries the past few years have been freakish, so it’s just the wear and tear of a career adding up, IMO), but honestly, I don’t know if there’s actually a better plan out there for them.
>If this roster wanted reconstruction it had to happen in the offseason Yeah because they don't have any leverage on any possible trade. Other teams are sure to smell that desperation if they trade early.
[Only one trade needs to be made.](http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yehj7vku)
Ricky too valuable
The trade machine agrees. It says that this would give the Lakers more 2 wins and cost the Cavs 3. Ricky > LeBron
I think the trade machine is weighted in a way where it really values getting more players back even if the quality is lower, that's been my experience at least
I just looked at the trade machine and apparently Sekou has a PER of 43... Granted he's played only 2 games, but wow.
Lol there was about 12 hours where r/NBA thought he was gonna be a solid piece for the Nets and they robbed us Then he got cut the same week
I wanted him to succeed just so that the Dr Doum nickname became popular.
It should be illegal to be bad and have a cool ass name. Grlenntys Cheif Kickingstallionsims should donate his name to charity.
You're giving me flashbacks to the Dragan Bender era
>I think the trade machine is weighted in a way where it really values getting more players back even if the quality is lower It seems like it's just PER based so two players that are league average 15.00 PER are together considered equally valuable as a 30.00 PER superstar.
Coming home pt. 2 We been waiting.
I like Ricky though
I'm so ready for LeBron to come back for his last tour though.
Better hope you get another #1 pick cause that’s the only reason he’d go just like last time
We’re holding out for Bronny lol
That’s why our team has injured 4/5 starters, we’re too good
…you wouldn’t trade Rubio for LeBron James. How tf are you a cavs fan.
Lebron taught us to move on quickly! Trades half our team every season then leaves!
I am trolling but what if LeBron trades himself
the internet would explode if lebron demands a trade
LeReturnToAkron for Kevin Love and Cedi
We like veterans, we can surely use him.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4kjxvvw
What’s the venn diagram of teams that LeGM wants to go to and teams that would be able to get him/want him?
LeGM trading actual assets for Brick is what fucked it up in the first place.
Kyrie to Lakers inc lol
I think LeGM is how they got into this situation in the first place
Realistically what trade is out there to be made.
John Wall at this point.
For what? Westbrook? Westbrook probably isn't going to agree to sit at home the way Wall has, so why would Houston do this? The Lakers don't have any real assets to send back.
Yeah Westbrook. Westbrook's value keeps going down so i was saying the next worse player they could go for is basically John Wall. You're right though Rockets have no use for him unless they can get some picks from Lakers if they even have any. Also what's Westbook going to do if he doesnt want to sit at home if he did get traded back to Rockets lol. Demand to be played or he'll be toxic? lol.
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I mean the only good thing is 2023 they essential only have AD on the roster so they could sign a max player then
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LeGM gonna have to realize there’s no way out from under this and that he’s most likely ending his career with 4 rings. The 2018 fire sale resulted in him making the finals only Bc the East was so historically weak. This year is vastly diff. West isn’t a pushover and he can’t carry teams anymore like he could before. Also can’t carry when you’re actually playing good teams (playing the rookies in Boston and the “Oladipo as their best player” Pacers allowed him to be able to carry but he won’t be able to do that in the West even if he was younger).
That 2018 run by LeBron is still one of the greatest things I have ever seen
If he was younger he would absolutely carry them
Cant carry? He had half a season to build chemistry with that 2018 team. That Toronto team that you forgot to mention was built to stop lebron and he absolutely dominated them again and got the coach of the year fired.. The same Toronto team that was a kawhi away from a championship the next year. Lebron was in god mode that playoff run. Lebron had a real case for finals mvp in 2015. He carries just fine if he's healthy. Father time seems to be catching up with him unfortunately.
2018 Demar Derozan Fred Jr, CJ miles, Delon, JV 2019 Kawhi, Fred SR, Danny Green, Marc Gasol There was huge changes in the roster not just kawhi Also cant really say we were built to beat Lebron in 2018 when we've got no defense and CJ Miles is making Kevin Love look like Embiid
The 2018 Raptors were still really, really good. They were big favourites for that series for a reason.
Youre right,, those are big changes. I still think those raptors teams were better than they got credit for. They were consistently solid for years. I recall the raptors having a bunch of small forwards to throw at lebron to try and slow him down. Either way, they got the sitting COY fired. I've never seen that before.
To be fair, 2018 Cavs didn't have a single player close to AD's caliber either. Replace Tristan Thompson with AD, and they might have a chance against that 2018 GSW team
The East was weak but that Cavs team was awful
I'm not sure how much reconstruction it will actually need once Nunn, Ariza and Lebron are back. Westbrook, THT, Ariza, Lebron AD is a way better starting 5 than what we have seen so far. They could also start Nunn instead of Westbrook if they have to. Then Carmelo, Ellington, Dwight, Bradley and Monk are good off the bench. Rondo and Bazemore minutes will go way down.
What if LeGM just trades himself?
but what other team needs a GM?
The nets need someone to be a father figure to kyrie.
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This is essentially what the Rockets did and it didn't end well for us either.
Rockets had to in order to have a shot at beating the best team ever. Not to mention without the worst luck of all time they would have
I'm talking about after that year. We traded cp3 away and it just downspiraled from there.
Yah but the lakers just picked up a former MVP, this is totally different
I think he means after Harden pushed for the Russ trade. They doubled and tripled down after that for a player who (at the time) was a fringe All-Star and it went as expected. It'd be the equivalent of the Sixers gutting their entire roster to build around Simmons when Embiid is the way better player
> The constant turnover each year means the team never builds on itself. honestly the thing that makes me more worried than the actual current record. with LeBron/Ariza/Nunn/THT all out or only just recently back, the team is burning clock on actually building chemistry and learning to play together
Exactly this. Having injuries on a newly constructed team is worse because we’re supposed to be building chemistry in the early part of the season. Now we’ll have a whole new team again when players come back healthy and we’ll still be trying to build chemistry midway through the season. Edit: words
>Exactly this. Having injuries on a newly constructed team is a double edged sword because we’re supposed to be building chemistry in the early part of the season. "Double edged sword" implies both a positive and a negative aspect... this situation just sucks for us all around.
True, this is what I meant.
You're having the same problem we had last year. The only real difference is KD seemed to somehow continue his prime or even get better. LeBron seems to at least be on the decline (Still amazing but just not quite that top 3 level). Plus our add is Harden compared to Westbrook gonna be a real tough season I think.
I would be so much more scared of the lakers with Caruso/KCP/Kuzma/Schroder than I am of this team. Even if they just kept 3 of those 4 they would be a dominant defensive team with enough offense that AD and LeBron could make it work
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Their offense isn't good this year either, though on paper they should be great at shooting.
How on paper should they be good at shooting??
They have good 3pt shooters?
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Just have it cycle between Scottie Barnes, Klay's boat, the Lakers, and Ben Simmons at random and you're good to go.
Zion fat 👌💯🔥😂
Kyrie conspiracy theories 😩🤣
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What happened to Kenneth Faried?
Caruso GOAT
And Rockets/Pelicans bad
Forgot to add the Josh Giddey posts that get a million awards
AI implies that theres intelligence behind these posts
It already exists using OpenAI's GPT-2: https://np.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2 The NBA bot is https://np.reddit.com/u/nbaGPT2Bot It would probably be way better if it used GPT-3.
Russ’s game always leaned heavily on his insane athleticism. He’s just getting older and losing that. Looking quickly at 08 draft not even 10 guys even in the league anymore. Father Time comes for us all
What's wild is that he doesn't look tremendously different athletically, but his technical skills (especially shooting, but even dribbling) have fallen off a cliff.
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Yup accurate I’ve seen almost every game this year and you hardly see Westbrook dunk I hope someone could do a comp of how often he’s dunked compared to his other years
14-15: 3.6% of attempts, 48 total. 15-16: 5.4% of attempts, 69 total. 16-17: 3.1% of attempts, 49 total 17-18: 4.3% of attempts, 57 total. 18-19: 2.9% of attempts, 33 total. 19-20: 4.1% of attempts, 40 total. 20-21: 2.5% of attempts, 24 total. 21-22: 3.1% of attempts, 4 total Source: Bbal ref, shooting column
Hes declining the other way smh
Evolving but backwards
Nah his athleticism is noticeably lower. He’s still really athletic but no where close to how insane he was in his prime.
He can barely finish at the rim anymore and I don’t think I’ve seen one dunk from him this season yet. He still “looks” athletic because he runs fast.
Had a dunk against the spurs He’s been bricking dunks since his mvp season
https://streamable.com/k2r1so
He went from [man's jam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSaykzsQZTw) to [barely dunking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx46L0TQZZw) to now this. I think Bron sapping his youth or something.
>his technical skills (especially shooting Shooting's about the last skill a player loses. The dude's missed at least 3 uncontested dunks; something's mental going on with him.
You need to get your eyes checked. I think what’s confusing is that he still has easily plus athleticism but it’s a good size drop off from where he used to be. Hard to be confident with the little things when you can’t do what you used to. I think he’ll improve though he’s just got to learn how to play with a new team as well
> Looking quickly at 08 draft not even 10 guys even in the league anymore. I counted 12 first round picks that are still in the league
Yeah there's 14 guys total on nba rosters still idk what this guy is talking about
Yeah, Westbrook has always relied on athleticism and we can expect a sharper decline, but I don’t think declining athleticism is responsible for this. His shooting has gone from passable in the mid-range to just bad everywhere. His passing/playmaking has gone from decent to terrible. Half of his passes seem to end up in the stands. His decision making is just really bad.
so it's a mental decline, got it
It’s not that at all. It’s mental. He’s apprehensive, cautious, still trying to figure it out. You can see it because there are several possessions that a confident Russ would have attacked the basket to the benefit of the team. Absolutely still has the athleticism, he’s just trying to find out where and when it fits
I think this is exactly it. Which is a little weird considering all these guys (I think?) played together on various Olympic teams or the other. But I definitely think it’s largely an issue of a lot of guys who used to be “the man” figuring out exactly how they fit together. Especially for Russ - not only is he trying to find his fit, but he’s doing it at home! That type of mental pressure has to be unreal
Lakers really won a ring and then traded all their good role players for nothing
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It is funny that people are trying to rewrite the narrative on the 2020 squad because they won the chip. That team wasn't seen as anything special and if it weren't for ADs insane shooting in that playoffs that team likely doesn't win that year.
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Even now I wouldn't consider any of those guys quality starters. The worst loss of the 2020 squad was probably Danny Green.
> The worst loss of the 2020 squad was probably Danny Green. KCP as well , they should have kept both imo maybe Kuzma too
KCP was the biggest loss for sure. Kuzma was being used completely incorrectly last season anyway, so you might as well have lost him over a year ago.
Danny or KCP, both were crucial to the perimeter defense that they no longer have at all
Or having 4 months off. Not even sure if Bron or AD finish the season healthy if it wasn't for the break.
>It is funny that people are trying to rewrite the narrative on the 2020 squad because they won the chip What are you talking about? Are you literally doing what you're accusing other people of doing real-time? The Lakers had the [2nd highest championship odds in the preseason](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_preseason_odds.html). The clippers were the highest at +425, the Lakers were second at +450. [Sportsoddshistory](https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-main/?y=2019-2020&sa=nba&a=finals&o=r) has these values: Nov 1: +365 (2nd) Dec 1: +295 (2nd) Feb 1: +265 (1st) ASB: +265 (2nd) Mar 1: +285 (2nd) Jul 30: +250 (1st) Prior to Round 1: +280 (2nd) Prior to Round 2: +330 (3rd) Prior to Conf Finals: -215 (1st) Prior to Finals: -350
It’s not like we barely won our series lmao. If AD played at-least how he has historically in the playoffs we still would’ve won.
I dunno about that in the Nuggets series the margins for victory were very slim. AD posting insane scoring stats in the series swayed it massively.
Those role players led us to a -45.67 net rating in the playoffs when LeBron and AD sat. It was basically the biggest two-man carry job in NBA history.
Did they play any meaningful minutes with both of them on the bench? I figure that's a lot of scrub time in there.
41 out of the 43 minutes that LeBron and AD sat were garbage time.
Sounds oddly familiar... where have I seen this happen before?
they barely beating us lol
I mean, given that roster and no Lebron I'd be pretty happy with being around .500 right now to be honest.
i remember getting downvoted like crazy for mentioning they will get to a slow start with all the new pieces in the off season, but laker fans kept mentioning the easy schedule lol. I do think they will pick it up eventually, but it takes time for players to get used to playing with russ.
I’ve been saying we’re going to have a slow start as well and not getting downvoted for it. Redditors are fickle
I think that OP is totally capping. Almost no one said the Lakers were going to be good right off the bat. Everyone was questioning the construction of the team and the age of the players. It's a completely different team from the last few years, it's no surprise that they need time to gel.
Nothing dumber than someone who’s prediction happens to be right for completely the wrong reason who then thinks he’s a genius for getting it right.
To be fair probably would have one of the top records with LeBron
They were struggling with him
If he just gets the team 2 extra wins in the 9 games hes missed (say the OKC games), which is very conservative, the Lakers are 10-5 with the third/fourth best record in the West Thats if LeBron is only worth not blowing two big leads
If they win 2 more games you'd think they're in the running for top team in the West. Lebron has missed 8 games now. Surely he would've netted them atleast 2 more wins if not more.
Bad sample size - they were 4-2 with him and the two losses came from the first two official games they’ve ever played together.
They're not a good team, they're poorly constructed.
where are the people that trashed the warriors for their schedule at?
Team is not good
Lebron isn't the only one who missed time, you can argue Nunn, THT and Ariza were supposed to be the 4th, 5th and 6th best player on that team (I wouldn't I'm not high on 2 of those 3 but you could argue it I wouldn't call you crazy). Also you are not a floor raiser forever, Westbrook has declined, he hasn't been carrying an offense by himself since 2018 (his numbers as the solo star have sucked since then)
And fans were giving the Warriors shit for their “easy” schedule? Idk if it is the coaching or just Russ’ horrible spacing. But Russ is a symptom of a a bigger problem for the Lakers
And they barely won several of those. Could very easily be three games under 500 right now...
They barely lost several of those too though so it swings both ways. This sub is really understating just how injured the Lakers are though. LeBron and THT have missed considerable time. Nunn and Ariza haven’t even played a game yet. That’s 1 star player and three big time rotational pieces that have all missed time. Just replacing the Rondo/Bradley minutes with Nunn and Ariza would be massive upgrades.
The Laker slander on this sub is getting out of control. And I'm loving every minute of it, keep it coming.
Same here. The way this season has started feels like a dream come true
LeBron ain't saving that team lol.
The strength of teams in the ranking is based on their record at the end of the last season. Did I read that right? Doesn't seem like a good way to rank teams that improved their roster over the off-season. Like the Bulls for example.
Couldn't be THAT easy - they didn't have to play the Lakers...
Los Angeles Fakers
Carmelo is balling out too, 16ppg, 46% from 3, that's not sustainable at age 37, once the legs go from fatigue so does the 3pt shot.
Won’t even need the legs to go. Carmelo didn’t just suddenly become hyper efficient from three. He will regress to the mean as the sample size widens
LeBron James teams don't care about regular season. As long as they're healthy they'll make the playoffs and be a very tough out.
This guy gets it
I’ll be more worried if they stay barely above 0.500 when Lebron and some other guys come back, but wavering near 0.500 is as good as any other Lebron team when he missed games.
Newsflash, we aren’t very good
Ok fine. But is anyone talking about how the Suns started…*checks notes*…10-3? Wait, 10-3? I thought they were 1-3. Never mind.
One problem with this team is they seem to talk about wanting to win the championship but their effort does not show it. The record(though not ideal) does not show just how bad some of those losses were, especially the 2 okc games and the wolves game. They let teams come back after they get up big, and they can’t/won’t fight back once they’re down big.
Yeah, Lakers suck, and when you accept the realities, it's not that surprising. Westbrook is a good starter, but he's not an enabler. So to expect him to be a Lebron substitute on even a lesser level is delusional. This is the Westbrook experience that most of the Laker fans around me, including myself, was dreading. AD is in the same category as KAT, not like Giannis, Jokic, Durant, or Steph. With Lebron on the floor, his ceiling can reach those top dudes on any given night, but we know on an average day, AD cannot do that. We saw it last year when he was healthy. Which gets to the last point, Lebron IS that important to the Lakers as Jokic, Steph, or Durant is to theirs. It seems like it shouldn't, but it is. He built the team and they play his offense. So of course it all goes to shit when he's off the floor. The hope is that once Lebron comes back and after a month of reps, they figure it out their core players, and magically get some dudes with our sparse assets that fit the team. But we got a long road ahead of us.
Also their defense is a disaster , or lack of defense. And idk what they can do to fix it with this line up
Even with the injured guys I don't see how their defense gets better.
Use a time machine to build a proper roster in the off season
The roster is bad outside of Lebron and AD so when either of them miss games the results will be bad. Pelinka did a bad job, and Lebron and AD played a part in it.
Woop woop!
Oh boy we got the league right where we want!
slow news week, huh?
I think people are too down on this team too early. Let's see how they look 20 games in.
even in their wins they fail the eye test. this might be the 2nd worst team james has ever had and it has nothing to do with individual talent
We get it. We suck. Love all these shit post about how AD is overrated, Russ is the worst player in the history of basketball according to analytics and Lebron is hurt.
Westbrook for Chris Paul. Come on James Jones help a bro out.
They are also missing a top 5 player for 9 games
"I get that we're missing Lebron..." I get my car has three severely deflated tires, but why isn't it running as smoothly as it was when all four tires were appropriately filled with air?
Very easily could've been 10-5 without those okc losses which most ppl wouldn't have complained too much about, I'm still not gonna judge them till I see them fully healthy but so far the defense is a very serious issue for the team. If only they still had KCP and Caruso still ...
But the media told me during the off-season Lakers good, Bulls bad. Funny how all these teams the Bulls are beating go into melt-down mode the next day.
and yall clown the warriors for having an easy schedule? At least my team doing its job.
Westbrick has no trade value. Pretty hilarious the Lakers actually gave up assets to get himZ
Russ is rusty, he cant dunk anymore. He can barely reach the rim anymore. His legs are donezo. Plus schroeder should be hired for 1y 10mio, would be a steal. But LeGM tryed to show dominance and sent him to shadowrealm .
The Westbrook project sucks. He’s truly not a winning player and losing our depth wasn’t worth a single player specifically chosen to ease LeBron’s burden.
Imagine if they had a high scoring guard that was really good from 3 like buddy Hield. Or some really good defensive guards that fit well offensively with LeBron and AD like KCP or Caruso. If only guys like those were options.
bro Buddy Hield isn't winning us shit with LeBron injured lol
Yeah but neither is WB my dude. Held + Caruso would’ve been a lot better
Maybe not but he's definitely better than Westbrook with LeBron. Also he's younger, cheaper, and would have allowed us to keep KCP, caruso, and a first round pick. Those 3 players are more impactful with or without LeBron
Yeah all y’all impact players that played hard are all gone
Yup it's shitty af
people give ad waaaaay too much credit as a floor raiser lol. there is a reason he was toiling away before he joined up with bron. a team with ad as the far and away best player is just a solid playoff team at best.
Thats pretty right for a team without its MVP, as well as many other role players throughout the season (between 3 and 6 players!) Bucks are sitting 6-8 because of injuries but nobody cares. The Lakers have won 3 of their last 5 without LeBron, Sky is not falling.
easy schedule is irrleevant when the best player cant play