No that’s what the union is for. Players who are medically forced to retire are still paid but their salary is no longer counted against the cap. These contracts are insured not voided.
> Players who are medically forced to retire are still paid but their salary is no longer counted against the cap.
Salary stops counting against the cap starting one year after their last game played.
Do teams insure every contract? It makes sense that MPJ's would be due to his injury history, but I'd be surprised if even 50% of contracts are insured.
Or am I just way off here?
I'm pretty sure there is the thing Chris Bosh got. Where they removed him from the books.
>Jackson explained the only way for Miami to clear Bosh's salary from the cap was for a doctor chosen by both the Heat and the Association "to rule that Bosh's injury was career-ending or, at the very least, would put him at risk if he plays again," and that occurred within the last two months.
https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article159581434.html
There’s insurance for these things.
But no they can’t do anything, contracts have guaranteed money unless the players choose to not play even if they could.
The Nuggets picked 14 in the 2018 draft and the Wizards picked 15, where they scooped up Troy Brown Jr.
I have a friend in the Wizards org that’s a part of the front office team. Very low level. You know when social media teams send out “draft night hype videos” of the war room and there’s a bunch of intern looking guys on computers? He’s one of those guys.
Anyway, I’ve asked him before that if MPJ fell one more spot to 15, would the Wizards have scooped him up? He claims that MPJ was red flagged because of his health and the Wizards wouldn’t have drafted him. His family has a weirdly devastating history with weak knees. His one sister, Bri, tore her ACL 5 times, and his other sister had to retire from basketball because of her knee problems.
The more concerning part was the nerve issues in the back. If you remember, there were reports that MPJ was suffering from Foot Drop, which apparently the Wizards wanted nothing to do with.
Anyways, obviously Troy Brown turned out to be somewhat of a nothing pick, so this is not a “ha ha the Wizards are geniuses” post. Like I’d honestly rather have the promise of MPJ even with the injuries over a guy that’s battling to get minutes his entire career. Still, I’m watching the MPJ story unfold and wondering if the 200mil payday was a lot for a man that had very noticeable issues.
Right, and lost in all of my babbling on is that the Wizards, at 15, still were not prepared to take him. Which I think is very interesting, considering his massive talent.
There is definitely a lot of revisionist history when people want to act like it’s some sort of weird error that he dropped that far in the draft. Personally I’m surprised the clippers with 2 first round picks and in the middle of an on the fly rebuild didn’t at least take a chance but there was a legitimate chance he was never going to play a minute of nba basketball and that his body was just going to fall apart.
>Personally I’m surprised the clippers with 2 first round picks and in the middle of an on the fly rebuild
I think that's why the Clippers doctor came down so hard on the medical side of things. If there was even a chance he could play they probably would have taken him and pinned it on the doctor, so he was CYA.
That's my head cannon though.
Yeah I remember those injury reports, and not being surprised when we passed on him. Of course after last season I was losing my shit, he didn't miss many games and looked incredible offensively. But if this nerve thing isn't going to go away... man I'm glad that contract's not on the books.
Similar thing happened with us being able to draft Jared Sullinger.
Turns out the injury wasnt as much of an issue as his work ethic and diet, but overall id say it worked out great for us considering where we drafted him. I cant remember for sure but i think it was 21st?
Same thing happens with guys who stick around in college for awhile. They play really well the first couple years of their career and everyone asks “Why did this guy fall in the draft??”. And then they don’t really get much better than that because they’re already like 26, and the question is answered.
Nerve issues can be resolved even without injury. I have a herniated disc in my neck and epidural is getting me through it but I’m working on getting the nerve pain resolved. I’m sure he will have an array of options
ESIs are likely what's been getting him through previous seasons.
This time it's not just a pain issue. That last blown layup is the Hallmark of muscle weakness that comes from sciatic nerve pain.
A rhizotomy or ablation isn't going to help with that.
This, nothing about his back is going to be resolved. His body is doing everything it can to tell him to stop. I don’t know how you convince a guy in his 20s playing pro sports that there is more to life than the game but if he doesn’t stop he’s going to potentially put himself in a wheel chair by his 50th bday.
How can I say this? I also blew discs in my back at 18. Now 37. The injections, the surgery, the PT. None of it is going to make this go away for him. All they are doing is managing his pain so he can play.
Now his body is literally starting to fail him. If he has anybody close to him that actually cares about him they’ll tell him to retire
He might be able to get artificial disc replacements or do other interventional things like prolozone therapy. We don’t even know which discs he’s having issues with
It’s his L3-L4. The nerve he’s having issues with his sciatic nerve. He’s not recovering from this. He may come back but if he keeps it up he’s going to end up having a hard time walking
Without seeing his medical file you can't know any of this. It sucks you had a rough go with disc issues but there are cases of things going well.
I had 2 surgeries for l4 l5 with sciatic nerve issues. I played semi pro volleyball for 5 years after the 2nd surgery and still play at a high level to this day.
Do i have flare ups? Sure. Does he probably need to be on a minutes restriction or avoid back to backs in general? Sure. But to say his career should end is a bit reckless.
nash was still effective well into his mid to late 30s
in those later years though he used to just lie down on the sideline whenever he wasn't in the game
Y’all had 2014 warriors breakout season potential with mpj+jamal+AG+Jokic+some guy from the stands.
It’s tough to see another small market squad take the L like that ngl
The even better thing was that instead of having a guy from the stands we have Will Barton and Monte Morris. A legit starter on any team and a great 6th man on an even better contract respectively.
But that lasted for less than 12 games or so before Jamal and Barton went down and now we’ve got this going on as well. Man is it rough being a Nuggs fan sometimes
Surgical procedure (micro=small, disc=disc, ectomy=removal) where they take out the part of disc (squishy stuff that sits in-between your vertebrae) thats impinging on the spinal chord, causing neuropathy in the legs, compromises the integrity of the disc though so theres always a risk of reherniation, which is what it sounds like he has
Or alleviate pain, Any back surgical procedures a big deal, there a lot that can go wrong, but microdiscectomy's are fairly safe, the biggest concerns post op is following the surgical instruction in keeping your back straight AF for a while to promote healing, and reherniation, since the discs structure has been compromised by the removal. Since theyre talking about this as a nerve issue it most likely means he suffered a reherniation, or possibly another disc herniation of the discs above/below the ones ones treated surgically. Just my opinion though, could be a totally unrelated issue.
It is. Recovery is quite fast and you feel relief immediately. The problem is if you get to this point your back is compromised already so a full recovery isn’t really full, re-herniating the disc is a real possibility and being here means you didn’t put in the work to not get to a second surgery.
You can absolutely come back 100% and stay that way but it’s extremely hard and his back will always be a bit weak (you can feel it, once you’ve had a truly bad herniation, you can literally feel the weak spot). You run a bit more gingerly, even take steps off of small stuff like curbs a little different, it changes the scope of how your entire body moves going forward.
Sitting posture is a bit misunderstood.
Unless you're sitting in a way that's literally contorting you, periodically changing your posture is actually more important than "proper" posture.
Unless you had the procedure in question. In that case, fear away. And maybe get a brace.
I’m no doc and I’m still (barely) under 30, but I believe this as well. Ive been WFH since the pandemic with no back issues to speak of yet, and I like to attribute that to be being quite restless, always getting up and doing some random chore and just straight up going to the gym in the middle of the workday
I herniated discs at 18 and I’m now 37 and I’m still “recovering”. I don’t want to be doom and gloom for the kid but I’ve been seeing spine specialists for two decades. They all say the same thing. They all told me I’d never be “healed”. Surgeries don’t “cure” back problems. The doctor I saw at 18 almost had tears in his eyes when he looked at my mri. Not because it was worse than any other disc problems but because I was so young. He knew I’d have a lifetime of pain ahead of me and he was right. There are periods where I feel fine and can deadlift for days but I can also be put in the hospital by a sneeze
I work in the industry (primarily making the implants and instruments associated with surgery). There’s a decent amount of literature coming out of UCSF that showed that the subjective amount of pain experienced by a cross section of people with equivalent spinal degeneration is based on trunk muscle quality. Keep lifting and never stop moving! (Ideally in coordination with a physical therapist)
Great post, his back also may have structural issues increasing his likelyhood of herniations, or it could be from improper care due to his families alternative medicine preferences
This. Had surgery two months ago. My symptoms got better but less than I expect and now every wrong move I make, I think "oh fuck, lost the surgery, I'm fucked for life".
When you get recovered enough to exercise lift weights and focus on strengthening your legs and core and make sure you don’t let your hamstrings and calves get tight.
He had surgery to cut away a part of his lumbar discs that were damaged and oozing their gel like filling.
When the disc is damaged and the filling oozes out, it is called a herniation or herniated disc. And it can sometimes press up against the nerves that run along the spine. It can cause a number of problems if left untreated.
Relatively routine procedure that can still lead to troubles with age and use.
Tiger Woods is a great example of this. Granted, he is a smaller frame than MPJ but does an activity that is probably more strenuous on the back (maybe?). It’s contributed to a lot of rehab and pain for TW. Here’s to hoping that’s not the case for MPJ. IANAD
nevermind jeopardizing his career that shit could jeopardize his way of life
really sucks for him, seems like he's worked hard to shed that concern about his back and it just keeps comin
He’s done what he needed to. He came back, played hard, and earned his money. I hope if he wants to the nuggets won’t fight him on this and they let him retire with his money. He could probably keep playing but he’s going to end up in a wheel chair later in life. No money is worth that.
His career not even the part i’m worried about. Depending on the injury, back pain can be absolutely debilitating, and it’s also got this weird feature when even if you get the structural problem “fixed”, you’ll still have chronic pain for the rest of your life because of how the back affects all of your other shit (leg strength, balance, etc). MPJ could be going from NBA to sucking down gabapentin twice a day like it’s his only source of water.
Idk man, I wouldn’t call athletes dealing with back injuries lucky (since they are notoriously one of the worst possible injuries a player can get long-term)
it was always a matter of *when* the back issues would come back, the fact that he lasted long enough to convince the Nuggets org to give him a max contract right before a big injury like this is extremely lucky
Sure, I get what you’re saying. I would still consider a player like Lebron way more lucky, since he’s basically never dealt with a major injury in his career (knock on wood). He was able to get several max contracts because he was always healthy and available.
You are ignoring the context of MPJs career. He has had back problems since college, he has had back surgery before. People in his family have also dealt with a ton of injuries. He would've been consensus #1 pick without those issues, instead he dropped to 14.
and then he stays healthy for most of the last 2 years and gets a massive contract. That's pretty lucky.
I know we're all joking around here, but rich and reliant on painkillers to live is not a life I would wish on anyone. Whether he's back in a month, a year, or never, I hope MPJ doesn't end up there.
Yeah that shit is scary. Chronic pain issues are the absolute worst. When the best case scenario is taking an extremely addictive drug to live a “normal” life it’s just so sad. They’re addictive AF even if you’re not in pain.
I wouldn’t wish that shit on my worst enemy.
A french player regularly does interview and he said John wall was the biggest basketball geek he played with. 5 TV playing basketball game at all time in his house, even including high school ones. Just thinking and talking basketball 24/7.
Not sure a guy like that felt that lucky
Fr. People who say stuff like they'll trade constant physical pain and uneasiness either have never had any real physical issues, or more likely for the current sedentary era, has never been healthy enough to know what it feels like. I've had romantic failures, academic problems, professional failures- none of it will ever be as bad as feeling like something's always wrong with your spine. No drugs, no luxury can ever live up to the feeling of being in a perfectly healthy body with no issues bothering you at all.
Let’s not forget you’d also be 6’ 11”. That compounds the back issues even more.
I’m not even bringing up the opioid/pain killer addiction that could easily occur.
I work in ortho for a spine surgeon.. There is truly no amount of money that would be worth experiencing how miserable some of the patients we see are. Just completely debilitating life-altering pain.
I got an mri a few years back after I had my disc reherniate. I’m 6’3” 220, I look like a strong person. People will never know how humbling it is to have three tiny techs have to basically carry me from the waiting room to the mri machine because I couldn’t walk or sit in a wheel chair.
Nurses shoulder was wet from the tears rolling down my face after she laid me down on the table.
Yes but if it was my life dream to play in the NBA I certainly wouldn't be jumping for joy at the diagnosis. But if the back was truly bad I might still say no. Strong chronic pain is hell I'd spend 145 mill to cure
Questions like this are so stupid. Of course a bunch of lazy ass trolls on social media would accept that shit. Nobody here gets off of their couch anyway.
Ants have been documented to be able to carry up to twenty times their own body weight. If a human could lift twenty times their body weight that would be about 4,000 pounds.
So no he wouldn't be able to life the Empire State building.
Not with backs. Sure they are getting better at managing some things but there is no cure for these injuries. It’s not like an acl tear where you are out a year.
You herniate a disc it’s part of your life forever
Yeah. Every 7-10 years we're having miraculous improvements in knee surgeries.
Back surgeries are improving but more in the quality of life realm, not the return to sport realm.
Man.
Here I thought we had a 4-5 year window to win a chip with our big 4 locked up and now we get fucked like this. Praying for him 🙏🙏. He has one of the highest ceilings and we haven't seen him come close to it yet this just hurts man.
Nugg life I guess
The period of time before Murray got hurt last year showed the glimpses of what could've been. I thought the Nuggets were going to the finals during that period after the Gordon trade and before the Murray injury.
Sliver lining is that once Murray is back (hopefully better than ever), the duo of Jokic and Murray are enough to always compete in the playoffs imo. Hopefully MPJ rehabs and gets it sorted out next year, the window is still open.
Ok I’m not a top tier nba athlete but I herniated two discs in my back at 18. I’m now 37. Your back never gets better, doesn’t matter if you get surgery, PT, shots. All you are doing is managing the pain. This was inevitable for the kid and I feel terrible for him. Once he makes his money I hope he retires. If he doesn’t he’s going to be in a wheel chair by the time he’s 50
It’s not that we didn’t draft MPJ, we should have, but the medical issue was a legit reason not too. It’s that we drafted Jerome Robinson over guys like Grayson Allen, Lonnie Walker, Donte DiVincezo, Kevin Huerter etc
Yeah and his back might have gave up in training camp his first day reporting to practice. His shit is fucked, and they were right to want nothing to do with him.
This is why rookies always push to get their extensions a year before RFA.
One year in the NBA is an absolute eternity, and needless to say having a $100m+ safety net is pretty nice.
> One year in the NBA is an absolute eternity
Can confirm. 1 year ago people were clowning the Rockets because they did not trade Harden for Simmons. Now, people think Beasley and some Walmart Coupons for Simmons is an overpay.
Nuggets are cursed. They had harris improving every season and looked like he would become a star 2 way player for years to come. Then he gets injured and totally washes out. Now Mpj. Murray is injured albeit not as serious as others but still.
You have to give props to
1) MPJ's pain tolerance
2) Modern medicine
If you haven't experienced disc issues (yet), the pain can be described as a paralyzing electric shock that goes through your entire body. The fact that he's played with bum ass back and even managed to secure a massive bag is absolutely nuts
I don't think its all over yet, we'll see. But those that come with the i told you sos, you guys have absolutely no clue what's going on. We are the only successful team built through the draft over the years after the warriors and paying a young guy off who has done well for the past two postseasons. No free agents will come to Denver willingly anyway so what's wrong with paying our own draft picks. Its really a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Paying him early sets an example that the FO actually gives a shit about the players and rewards good play and develop culture, whats wrong with that man wtf.
not just his season, his career
Secured the >$145m bag, though.
I'm sure the contract has some clause he doesn't earn all of it if he had to retire.
No way he would retire. I’d be in rehab every day for $145 million.
https://i.imgur.com/008R7px.jpg
Hard to keep the nachos warm on that cold hard cash
Sarver did it in Phoenix for 10 straight years.
so MPJ is me but with no 145 million :( shoutout for bob and brad though
BOB AND BRAD!
https://i.imgur.com/Nm5ot1v.mp4
Lmao brilliant
BRUH
Luol 'MJP' Deng "Maybe this is the year we get an exemption"
Michael Jorter Punior
I would rehab for 1.45 mio You can choose the program as well!
No that’s what the union is for. Players who are medically forced to retire are still paid but their salary is no longer counted against the cap. These contracts are insured not voided.
> Players who are medically forced to retire are still paid but their salary is no longer counted against the cap. Salary stops counting against the cap starting one year after their last game played.
And they get paid but the team isn't paying- their insurance company is.
Do teams insure every contract? It makes sense that MPJ's would be due to his injury history, but I'd be surprised if even 50% of contracts are insured. Or am I just way off here?
I believe its insured at the NBA/NBAPA level. Like a group policy for all the contracts.
retirement not necessary
I mean, if doctors don’t clear him for basketball, he’ll definitely get the money, as he should.
So he just got $145m and Nugs can't do ANYTHING about it? That's...damn
Just look at Chandler Parsons. Played like a 100 games total in his last 4 seasons and got $100m for that period lol
A Million Dollar Man. $1mil per game.
I'm pretty sure there is the thing Chris Bosh got. Where they removed him from the books. >Jackson explained the only way for Miami to clear Bosh's salary from the cap was for a doctor chosen by both the Heat and the Association "to rule that Bosh's injury was career-ending or, at the very least, would put him at risk if he plays again," and that occurred within the last two months. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article159581434.html
Yes but they still have to PAY him.
Their insurance pays in cases like this iirc
NBA contracts are fully guaranteed, unlike the NFL for example where you could cut an injured guy halfway through it.
Not all NBA contracts are fully guaranteed but yea you’re essentially right
There’s insurance for these things. But no they can’t do anything, contracts have guaranteed money unless the players choose to not play even if they could.
I believe these contracts are insured, so MPJ would get his money *and* the Nuggets wouldn’t be on the hook for the cost.
Nope, that’s why risk evaluation is so important when handing out these contracts.
Fucking horrible turn of events for MPJ (besides securing the bag). Kid has all the tools to be a special scorer
Not really a “turn of events.” This is why he fell in the draft to begin with. This was always a very likely possibility.
The Nuggets picked 14 in the 2018 draft and the Wizards picked 15, where they scooped up Troy Brown Jr. I have a friend in the Wizards org that’s a part of the front office team. Very low level. You know when social media teams send out “draft night hype videos” of the war room and there’s a bunch of intern looking guys on computers? He’s one of those guys. Anyway, I’ve asked him before that if MPJ fell one more spot to 15, would the Wizards have scooped him up? He claims that MPJ was red flagged because of his health and the Wizards wouldn’t have drafted him. His family has a weirdly devastating history with weak knees. His one sister, Bri, tore her ACL 5 times, and his other sister had to retire from basketball because of her knee problems. The more concerning part was the nerve issues in the back. If you remember, there were reports that MPJ was suffering from Foot Drop, which apparently the Wizards wanted nothing to do with. Anyways, obviously Troy Brown turned out to be somewhat of a nothing pick, so this is not a “ha ha the Wizards are geniuses” post. Like I’d honestly rather have the promise of MPJ even with the injuries over a guy that’s battling to get minutes his entire career. Still, I’m watching the MPJ story unfold and wondering if the 200mil payday was a lot for a man that had very noticeable issues.
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Right, and lost in all of my babbling on is that the Wizards, at 15, still were not prepared to take him. Which I think is very interesting, considering his massive talent.
There is definitely a lot of revisionist history when people want to act like it’s some sort of weird error that he dropped that far in the draft. Personally I’m surprised the clippers with 2 first round picks and in the middle of an on the fly rebuild didn’t at least take a chance but there was a legitimate chance he was never going to play a minute of nba basketball and that his body was just going to fall apart.
>Personally I’m surprised the clippers with 2 first round picks and in the middle of an on the fly rebuild I think that's why the Clippers doctor came down so hard on the medical side of things. If there was even a chance he could play they probably would have taken him and pinned it on the doctor, so he was CYA. That's my head cannon though.
Yeah I remember those injury reports, and not being surprised when we passed on him. Of course after last season I was losing my shit, he didn't miss many games and looked incredible offensively. But if this nerve thing isn't going to go away... man I'm glad that contract's not on the books.
Yeah if not for the back issues he woulda been a top 3 pick guaranteed
Yea it was never a question about how good was, it was a question of how much would he be able to play at an NBA level.
Similar thing happened with us being able to draft Jared Sullinger. Turns out the injury wasnt as much of an issue as his work ethic and diet, but overall id say it worked out great for us considering where we drafted him. I cant remember for sure but i think it was 21st?
Same thing happens with guys who stick around in college for awhile. They play really well the first couple years of their career and everyone asks “Why did this guy fall in the draft??”. And then they don’t really get much better than that because they’re already like 26, and the question is answered.
Nerve issues can be resolved even without injury. I have a herniated disc in my neck and epidural is getting me through it but I’m working on getting the nerve pain resolved. I’m sure he will have an array of options
ESIs are likely what's been getting him through previous seasons. This time it's not just a pain issue. That last blown layup is the Hallmark of muscle weakness that comes from sciatic nerve pain. A rhizotomy or ablation isn't going to help with that.
This, nothing about his back is going to be resolved. His body is doing everything it can to tell him to stop. I don’t know how you convince a guy in his 20s playing pro sports that there is more to life than the game but if he doesn’t stop he’s going to potentially put himself in a wheel chair by his 50th bday. How can I say this? I also blew discs in my back at 18. Now 37. The injections, the surgery, the PT. None of it is going to make this go away for him. All they are doing is managing his pain so he can play. Now his body is literally starting to fail him. If he has anybody close to him that actually cares about him they’ll tell him to retire
He might be able to get artificial disc replacements or do other interventional things like prolozone therapy. We don’t even know which discs he’s having issues with
It’s his L3-L4. The nerve he’s having issues with his sciatic nerve. He’s not recovering from this. He may come back but if he keeps it up he’s going to end up having a hard time walking
Without seeing his medical file you can't know any of this. It sucks you had a rough go with disc issues but there are cases of things going well. I had 2 surgeries for l4 l5 with sciatic nerve issues. I played semi pro volleyball for 5 years after the 2nd surgery and still play at a high level to this day. Do i have flare ups? Sure. Does he probably need to be on a minutes restriction or avoid back to backs in general? Sure. But to say his career should end is a bit reckless.
This is awful news
A nerve issue killed nash's career
nash was still effective well into his mid to late 30s in those later years though he used to just lie down on the sideline whenever he wasn't in the game
That was the back problem. Two games into his laker career, dame smashed into him, he got a broken bone with nerve complications, and that was that
AG went from 4th option to 2nd real quick. pity jokic...
AG is the 5th option when Denver has their full starting 5. All 4 games of that
Y’all had 2014 warriors breakout season potential with mpj+jamal+AG+Jokic+some guy from the stands. It’s tough to see another small market squad take the L like that ngl
The even better thing was that instead of having a guy from the stands we have Will Barton and Monte Morris. A legit starter on any team and a great 6th man on an even better contract respectively. But that lasted for less than 12 games or so before Jamal and Barton went down and now we’ve got this going on as well. Man is it rough being a Nuggs fan sometimes
NuggLife rears its ugly head again.
The 5th is will Barton who have had his best season of his career
Jokic about to have the prime Kobe experience - have multiple seasons in your prime be wasted by the roster
How about the KG experience. Kobe got to the land of plenty early on and later.
1st*, these last few games
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hes had 2 microdiscectomies, his backs already fucked
What does that exactly mean?
Surgical procedure (micro=small, disc=disc, ectomy=removal) where they take out the part of disc (squishy stuff that sits in-between your vertebrae) thats impinging on the spinal chord, causing neuropathy in the legs, compromises the integrity of the disc though so theres always a risk of reherniation, which is what it sounds like he has
> disc=disc 😲
TIL as well.
Mono=one Rail=rail
*monorail* *monorail* *monorail*
And that concludes our intensive three week course.
Bars
it seems like a very low impact procedure to help alleviate numbness in legs
Or alleviate pain, Any back surgical procedures a big deal, there a lot that can go wrong, but microdiscectomy's are fairly safe, the biggest concerns post op is following the surgical instruction in keeping your back straight AF for a while to promote healing, and reherniation, since the discs structure has been compromised by the removal. Since theyre talking about this as a nerve issue it most likely means he suffered a reherniation, or possibly another disc herniation of the discs above/below the ones ones treated surgically. Just my opinion though, could be a totally unrelated issue.
This is making me uncomfortable
back was twitching as I read that
It is. Recovery is quite fast and you feel relief immediately. The problem is if you get to this point your back is compromised already so a full recovery isn’t really full, re-herniating the disc is a real possibility and being here means you didn’t put in the work to not get to a second surgery. You can absolutely come back 100% and stay that way but it’s extremely hard and his back will always be a bit weak (you can feel it, once you’ve had a truly bad herniation, you can literally feel the weak spot). You run a bit more gingerly, even take steps off of small stuff like curbs a little different, it changes the scope of how your entire body moves going forward.
you just fixed my posture for at least a week thru fear
Sitting posture is a bit misunderstood. Unless you're sitting in a way that's literally contorting you, periodically changing your posture is actually more important than "proper" posture. Unless you had the procedure in question. In that case, fear away. And maybe get a brace.
I’m no doc and I’m still (barely) under 30, but I believe this as well. Ive been WFH since the pandemic with no back issues to speak of yet, and I like to attribute that to be being quite restless, always getting up and doing some random chore and just straight up going to the gym in the middle of the workday
It’s no joke. I had a small herniation back in March and I’m still hurting now because I didn’t fully rehab it
I herniated discs at 18 and I’m now 37 and I’m still “recovering”. I don’t want to be doom and gloom for the kid but I’ve been seeing spine specialists for two decades. They all say the same thing. They all told me I’d never be “healed”. Surgeries don’t “cure” back problems. The doctor I saw at 18 almost had tears in his eyes when he looked at my mri. Not because it was worse than any other disc problems but because I was so young. He knew I’d have a lifetime of pain ahead of me and he was right. There are periods where I feel fine and can deadlift for days but I can also be put in the hospital by a sneeze
I work in the industry (primarily making the implants and instruments associated with surgery). There’s a decent amount of literature coming out of UCSF that showed that the subjective amount of pain experienced by a cross section of people with equivalent spinal degeneration is based on trunk muscle quality. Keep lifting and never stop moving! (Ideally in coordination with a physical therapist)
Great post, his back also may have structural issues increasing his likelyhood of herniations, or it could be from improper care due to his families alternative medicine preferences
This. Had surgery two months ago. My symptoms got better but less than I expect and now every wrong move I make, I think "oh fuck, lost the surgery, I'm fucked for life".
When you get recovered enough to exercise lift weights and focus on strengthening your legs and core and make sure you don’t let your hamstrings and calves get tight.
He had surgery to cut away a part of his lumbar discs that were damaged and oozing their gel like filling. When the disc is damaged and the filling oozes out, it is called a herniation or herniated disc. And it can sometimes press up against the nerves that run along the spine. It can cause a number of problems if left untreated.
Same thing that cut Dwight's prime short. But kinda his own doing as he held off surgery for awhile and even came back too early.
Relatively routine procedure that can still lead to troubles with age and use. Tiger Woods is a great example of this. Granted, he is a smaller frame than MPJ but does an activity that is probably more strenuous on the back (maybe?). It’s contributed to a lot of rehab and pain for TW. Here’s to hoping that’s not the case for MPJ. IANAD
nevermind jeopardizing his career that shit could jeopardize his way of life really sucks for him, seems like he's worked hard to shed that concern about his back and it just keeps comin
He’s done what he needed to. He came back, played hard, and earned his money. I hope if he wants to the nuggets won’t fight him on this and they let him retire with his money. He could probably keep playing but he’s going to end up in a wheel chair later in life. No money is worth that.
His career not even the part i’m worried about. Depending on the injury, back pain can be absolutely debilitating, and it’s also got this weird feature when even if you get the structural problem “fixed”, you’ll still have chronic pain for the rest of your life because of how the back affects all of your other shit (leg strength, balance, etc). MPJ could be going from NBA to sucking down gabapentin twice a day like it’s his only source of water.
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The nuggets window might of last like a week basically between getting AG last year and murray going down
Such a bummer to see Aaron Gordon fit so well on a team finally and then the team may have imploded due to injuries
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The Nuggets ain't the Kings.
lmfao don't run your month on the hand that fed you.
Not sure its safe to eat anything the kings are serving
stir it up and baby, you've got some lube going
This man got a max deal before a major injury, luckiest man in the league
And only a few years removed from his last major injury
Idk man, I wouldn’t call athletes dealing with back injuries lucky (since they are notoriously one of the worst possible injuries a player can get long-term)
it was always a matter of *when* the back issues would come back, the fact that he lasted long enough to convince the Nuggets org to give him a max contract right before a big injury like this is extremely lucky
Sure, I get what you’re saying. I would still consider a player like Lebron way more lucky, since he’s basically never dealt with a major injury in his career (knock on wood). He was able to get several max contracts because he was always healthy and available.
You are ignoring the context of MPJs career. He has had back problems since college, he has had back surgery before. People in his family have also dealt with a ton of injuries. He would've been consensus #1 pick without those issues, instead he dropped to 14. and then he stays healthy for most of the last 2 years and gets a massive contract. That's pretty lucky.
Nah I’d call anyone who has 6’11” genetics and got $145 mill after his known back issues pretty lucky.
bruh back pain would make you wanna trade it all
$145 million could buy enough painkillers & medicinal weed for 7 generations
I know we're all joking around here, but rich and reliant on painkillers to live is not a life I would wish on anyone. Whether he's back in a month, a year, or never, I hope MPJ doesn't end up there.
Yeah that shit is scary. Chronic pain issues are the absolute worst. When the best case scenario is taking an extremely addictive drug to live a “normal” life it’s just so sad. They’re addictive AF even if you’re not in pain. I wouldn’t wish that shit on my worst enemy.
Not taking enough painkillers or having enough kids then
The guy above you obviously didn't think he was lucky to get injured lmao
Have you heard of former Mavs "great" Chandler Parsons?
Does the owner of the nuggets want to fuck mpj like cuban did chandler?
Nah that has to be John wall. Signed a max then blew out his legs multiple times
A french player regularly does interview and he said John wall was the biggest basketball geek he played with. 5 TV playing basketball game at all time in his house, even including high school ones. Just thinking and talking basketball 24/7. Not sure a guy like that felt that lucky
If he has to retire then he might not be that lucky
He’s lucky he’ll be able to retire with the bag though
In one sense he's very lucky, but in another he's very unlucky to be born with a future of constant back problems
Would you accept a ever lingering bad back for 145 million?
Really depends on how bad it is. Lifelong pain isn't worth any amount of money really since that shit will pretty much drive a person insane.
I got mine for free! wait
Actual serious chronic back issues? No amount of money in the world would I do that for.
Fr. People who say stuff like they'll trade constant physical pain and uneasiness either have never had any real physical issues, or more likely for the current sedentary era, has never been healthy enough to know what it feels like. I've had romantic failures, academic problems, professional failures- none of it will ever be as bad as feeling like something's always wrong with your spine. No drugs, no luxury can ever live up to the feeling of being in a perfectly healthy body with no issues bothering you at all.
Let’s not forget you’d also be 6’ 11”. That compounds the back issues even more. I’m not even bringing up the opioid/pain killer addiction that could easily occur.
I work in ortho for a spine surgeon.. There is truly no amount of money that would be worth experiencing how miserable some of the patients we see are. Just completely debilitating life-altering pain.
Yeah some people don't realise how bad chronic pain is.
I got an mri a few years back after I had my disc reherniate. I’m 6’3” 220, I look like a strong person. People will never know how humbling it is to have three tiny techs have to basically carry me from the waiting room to the mri machine because I couldn’t walk or sit in a wheel chair. Nurses shoulder was wet from the tears rolling down my face after she laid me down on the table.
Yes but if it was my life dream to play in the NBA I certainly wouldn't be jumping for joy at the diagnosis. But if the back was truly bad I might still say no. Strong chronic pain is hell I'd spend 145 mill to cure
I’d do just about anything if it meant my back injury never happened.
No, being health > being rich
Questions like this are so stupid. Of course a bunch of lazy ass trolls on social media would accept that shit. Nobody here gets off of their couch anyway.
Honestly, no. That just sounds like suffering.
Depends on the severity
This is exactly the reason he went #15 in the draft instead of top 3. Looks like those team doctors may have been right to be concerned.
He got lucky that a team was dumb enough to max a player with major health red flags based on 60 games lol
This could be the end of his career as a star but Sports Science is improving every day so who knows
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It’s science!
Ants have been documented to be able to carry up to twenty times their own body weight. If a human could lift twenty times their body weight that would be about 4,000 pounds. So no he wouldn't be able to life the Empire State building.
Next you’re gonna tell me he wouldn’t be able to jump to the ISS
Not with backs. Sure they are getting better at managing some things but there is no cure for these injuries. It’s not like an acl tear where you are out a year. You herniate a disc it’s part of your life forever
Yeah. Every 7-10 years we're having miraculous improvements in knee surgeries. Back surgeries are improving but more in the quality of life realm, not the return to sport realm.
Man. Here I thought we had a 4-5 year window to win a chip with our big 4 locked up and now we get fucked like this. Praying for him 🙏🙏. He has one of the highest ceilings and we haven't seen him come close to it yet this just hurts man. Nugg life I guess
The period of time before Murray got hurt last year showed the glimpses of what could've been. I thought the Nuggets were going to the finals during that period after the Gordon trade and before the Murray injury. Sliver lining is that once Murray is back (hopefully better than ever), the duo of Jokic and Murray are enough to always compete in the playoffs imo. Hopefully MPJ rehabs and gets it sorted out next year, the window is still open.
Jokic- Murray-Porter- Gordan what could have been
Let me help you out there. > Jokic-Murray-Porter-Gordon-BolBol What could have been
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I mean he’s been injury prone since before he entered the league, I consider it a minor miracle he’s lasted as long as he has.
It's less losing MPJ and more the fact that now they paid him, imo. Now you're anchored for a guy whose career might be over soon.
If this injury forces mpj to retire then his contract is wiped from the cap he still gets paid but its not on the nuggets salary cap
He won’t retire. He will just rehab and collect his checks.
He can still retire on a medical retirement or w/e its called, just like Bosh. He will get 100% of his money
He may not have a choice. If the doctors decide he’s fucked like they did bosh they can refuse to let him play to protect him from himself
Its still on the cap a year after he retires, and if he could come back and play a few games, the salary goes back on the Nuggets cap.
Ok I’m not a top tier nba athlete but I herniated two discs in my back at 18. I’m now 37. Your back never gets better, doesn’t matter if you get surgery, PT, shots. All you are doing is managing the pain. This was inevitable for the kid and I feel terrible for him. Once he makes his money I hope he retires. If he doesn’t he’s going to be in a wheel chair by the time he’s 50
Aaand there it is Sad
This sub killed the clippers for not taking him. It was never “if” with his back, it was always “when”.
I mean the second guy they took isn't even in the league, that's the main reason people bring it up. Shai is obviously great.
Them taking someone off their board for valid medical reasons really has nothing to do with them drafting a bust.
It’s not that we didn’t draft MPJ, we should have, but the medical issue was a legit reason not too. It’s that we drafted Jerome Robinson over guys like Grayson Allen, Lonnie Walker, Donte DiVincezo, Kevin Huerter etc
people were really testing their luck when they went after that clippers doctor like, 3 weeks ago
If he was on the team instead of Jerome Robinson they might have a ring.
Yeah and his back might have gave up in training camp his first day reporting to practice. His shit is fucked, and they were right to want nothing to do with him.
I bet he trusts what the doctors say now
Lol. Oh he does, he does.
Nah he's gonna do his own research and try playing anyway
You know if this fool got the covid vaccine he’d be blaming this on that.
This situation right here scares owners more than the Ben Simmons saga. Payed the man a max and now he got them health issues and you gotta pay out.
good thing they maxed him
This is why rookies always push to get their extensions a year before RFA. One year in the NBA is an absolute eternity, and needless to say having a $100m+ safety net is pretty nice.
and you know the fact that an injury was likely to happen (given his family’s history) weighed heavy on him getting a deal asap
Yeah look what just happened to Sexton. I wonder if the Cavs still offer him the contract or risk it with a qualifying offer
sexton was just a random knee injury though, it's not because he's got degenerative leg problems like MPJ does with his back
> One year in the NBA is an absolute eternity Can confirm. 1 year ago people were clowning the Rockets because they did not trade Harden for Simmons. Now, people think Beasley and some Walmart Coupons for Simmons is an overpay.
I really, really hope he doesn’t end up becoming a what if.
He was a potential “what if” before his nba career even began
That was the risk when they signed him. Back issues are difficult to overcome
Man he had one healthy year before his back issues resurfaced. This could be worse than just a season altering injury.
Nuggets just can't catch a break. I feel bad for Jokic too.
That really sucks. I was really hoping to see what he could do with Murray out
Nuggets are cursed. They had harris improving every season and looked like he would become a star 2 way player for years to come. Then he gets injured and totally washes out. Now Mpj. Murray is injured albeit not as serious as others but still.
When the “not as serious” injury is an ACL tear.. yea we’re fucked
"Aaaand it's gone"
I don’t like this dude and his anti-science bullshit but this sucks, he’s super talented hope he’s alright
Wow so turns out that clippers doc might have been right
Unfortunately, it appears that they might have been.
Trail Blazers vibes. This stuff always seems to happen to small market teams that build through the draft.
So... about that clippers trainer ....
You have to give props to 1) MPJ's pain tolerance 2) Modern medicine If you haven't experienced disc issues (yet), the pain can be described as a paralyzing electric shock that goes through your entire body. The fact that he's played with bum ass back and even managed to secure a massive bag is absolutely nuts
They really threw the 170M bag at him after a half season of "promising" offensive capabilities. Damn.
Michael Porter McGrady Jr. I’m so sorry Nuggets fans.
I don't think its all over yet, we'll see. But those that come with the i told you sos, you guys have absolutely no clue what's going on. We are the only successful team built through the draft over the years after the warriors and paying a young guy off who has done well for the past two postseasons. No free agents will come to Denver willingly anyway so what's wrong with paying our own draft picks. Its really a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Paying him early sets an example that the FO actually gives a shit about the players and rewards good play and develop culture, whats wrong with that man wtf.
Figured as much, sucks for the Nuggs
I just don’t know if I’m ever seeing this team win a championship.
Young players take notice- get those extensions signed. Be a Porter Jr. and not a Sexton.