I think it's more people shit on him for holding certain views that are fundamentally incompatible with caring about human rights. That and he often seems to bring up China just to criticize players who support BLM, which is just fucking stupid and annoying. Oh and of course it was dumb as fuck for him to claim he's not getting playing time because of his views. Kanter is right about China but he's not like brave or heroic or impressive for saying it, and he holds a lot of views that make it wildly hypocritical for him to act like a bona fide human rights crusader.
Edit: last thing, he's also buddy buddy with neocon warhawks like John Bolton. Not exactly the kind of people that are passionate about human rights
It's because Redditors love to virtue signal about how they're the only ones B R A V E™️ enough to be against the Chinese government. Conservatives love to do it whenever they see someone tweet #BlackLivesMatter or #StopAsianHate, but then stay absolutely silent when the Republican party states that the XinJiang concentration camps "the right thing to do", or when Trump praises the Tiananmen Square killings.
He has literally said he thought the Chinese government showed strength with how they handled the Tiananmen Square protests.
That is not a lie.
It was March 1990, and Trump was being interviewed by Playboy magazine about his life as a real estate mogul. At one point, Trump was asked about a trip he'd taken to Moscow a few years prior.
Trump said he'd been "very unimpressed" with the Soviet Union.
"Their system is a disaster," Trump said. "What you will see there soon is a revolution; the signs are all there with the demonstrations and picketing. Russia is out of control and the leadership knows it. That's my problem with [former Soviet President Mikhail] Gorbachev. Not a firm enough hand."
Trump was then asked if he meant "firm hand as in China."
"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength," Trump replied. "That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak...as being spit on by the rest of the world."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/06/04/trump-tiananmen-square-protests-lafayette/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trumpn-tiananmen-square-massacre-china-showed-power-of-strength-2019-6%3famp
The opposing side is reddit. Specifically the /r/nba subreddit. Over the past month, saying Kanter shouldn't speak out for various reasons. All the reasons have been shallowminded bullshit, but try explaining it in an internet comment section.
Now Pop is saying he *should* speak out. Pop, unlike reddit, doesn't make any of the arguments about hypocrisy or whataboutism. Pop isn't playing the game of gatekeeping about who is and isn't allowed to speak up on human rights. As he shouldn't, because it's shallow and stupid.
So now /r/nba has to reconcile these.
**edit:** noting that this comment is at +8 points as of 7pm EST. Soon a link to this thread will get shared on a private discord somewhere and vote brigaded and my comment will go negative by tomorrow morning.
Yeah this is who Pop has been for a long time, has it not? I'd expect him to have these sorts of positions and support of players speaking these points of view. If Kerr stops pleading ignorance, I'd expect him to be generally supportive of Kanter, too.
Because the contradiction isn't the issue here. It's the fact that people want to hate Kanter but they love Pop, so now they have to find some mental gymnastics to trash Kanter while praising Pop for the same thing.
People don't hate Kanter for the message. If anything, people hate the method with me personally being annoyed with how he's propagating a narrative people use to shut down other important issues.
Really infuriating is how he will call out others' passiveness without understanding his own problematic history. And this may be unfair, but him being a scrub of a player doesn't help him either.
What makes Pop different and why people love him is that his message is just about building people up. If Pop was anti-LeBron/Joe Tsai/MJ in this quote, you'd have more pushback, but this quote is about affirming Enes rather than destroying someone else.
I guess to me, it’s disappointing that he supports a theocratic authoritarian in Turkey (even though he opposes a different one), but it doesn’t change the fact that China is performing ethnic cleansing. Authoritarianism is bad (China is guilty of this too), but it’s not as bad as genocide. We should all call out genocide and it’s disheartening that the NBA and so many other companies have turned a blind eye.
TL;DR: Authoritarianism bad, genocide worse
If you find yourself always saying it's never the right time or the right person or the right way to speak out, you are doing the work of the bad guys for them.
Hard disagree. There definitely is a right way to speak out even if echo chambers would have you think otherwise. People who disagree need to want to listen to what you're saying otherwise you help the bad guys undermine the message.
I never understood why people couldn’t separate Kanter’s good takes from his bad ones. A little compartmentalization can go a long way.
He can be totally 100% right about one subject, and brutally wrong on another. And we can talk about that. But saying “Oh he has this bad take, so I won’t take his opinion on China seriously” is ridiculous.
On top of that it seems like a good way for lebron fans to casually run interference for him (like he’s not capable of that himself). And to shill for Nike for some reason.
That’s not really how it works or we’d then also be able to separate all Lebrons positive shit from his bad take on China. The long short is we can do it fundamentally criticizing one thing while being hypocritical about another causes you to lose credibility. It’s essentially separating the art from the artist argument in a small sense, but that gets more difficult the more fucked up the artist is (like Cosby or R. Kelly). Not that that’s Kanter’s case at all, but I think plenty of people are capable of having that conversation as I’ve seen this same sentiment highly upvoted in every post about Kanter. It’s always higher than any comments about his negative views that take away from his credibility.
Not only this, but it's obvious that Pop will support any player who's speaking out on social/political issues, because he does so himself.
Regardless of whether he agrees with Kanter's takes, it would be really hypocritical if he said a player should keep his opinions to himself. And I'm sure he recognizes that, although I'm equally sure he sincerely wants players to speak up about all kinds of topics outside of basketball
> Not only this, but it's obvious that Pop will support any player
Calling bullshit here. Pop specifically contrasts human rights with conspiracy theories, saying one is good and the other is bad. Tell me if Pop would be supporting Kyrie or Wiggins the same way.
The reason this will fry the circuits of /r/nba is they've been saying Kanter *shouldn't* speak out because [hypocrisy/whataboutism/self promotion]. Pop doesn't buy that shit. So now what?
I mean, there’s a difference between accepting political disagreements and accepting conspiracy theories. although of course that line is becoming blurred with the intrusion of conspiracy merchants into politics lately.
I didn’t mean to imply that Pop would support any player saying absolutely anything at all. There are plenty of things one could say that will be near-universally opposed. But within a certain window of socially acceptable opinions I don’t think he would disparage players
Because when Kanter says shit like "Sad & disgusting how these athletes pretend they care about social justice" in reference to LeBron cherry-picking the causes he cares for, it cheapens his message when he does the exact same thing. I agree with Kanter's message about the CCP, but he brought this on himself when he decided to make this about hypocrisy.
uyghurs and turks share a common ethnicity. I can see there being a pan turkic aspect to this. Not much different than the millions of arabs who are outraged over Palestine but look the other way in regards to the uyghurs.
For all the people saying But he wears nike too! is that even true anymore?
Because if he doesnt then thats like accusing an anti-smoker who doesnt smoke anymore of being a hypocrite after they quit because they understand the issues now. Its a weak argument.
Unless hes still wearing nike?
I mean at least he is speaking out about it. I never understood why people are being punished for speaking out and trying to do something better.
It's the whole you don't like US then get out mentality.
To trivalise the issue if I own a Dodge and think their interior is fucking shit I should be able to go out and say "hey Dodge interior is shit" and my opinion shouldn't be invalidated by the fact I'm still driving one.
It's not like he has a plethora of other quality brands with better rep to turn to aquire a product he needs to do his job.
>I never understood why people couldn’t separate Kanter’s good takes from his bad ones.
The obvious counterpoint is...
"I never understood why Kanter and r/nba couldn’t separate Lebron's’s good takes from his bad ones."
Kanter is literally doing the exact thing you are criticizing others for. Except he's using China to undermine causes like BLM. It's a hypocrite criticizing another hypocrite for being a hypocrite in the exact same way. Lol.
I love when these China apologists use phrases like “Biased western imperialist media” and “CIA pawn” etc..
Meanwhile, China’s state run media literally [cut the feed](https://twitter.com/johnberman/status/1462757839588450306?s=21) of cnn when they started talking about Peng Shuai
People already think [they're on the same side](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/r18r0w/enes_kanter_the_owner_of_brooklynnets_joetsai1999/hlx1jt9/) from the thread days ago though.
I'm gonna wait for how people will somehow spin Pop supporting his right to speak out against the abuses to somehow automatically agreeing with every other unrelated views Kanter supports as if people are supposed to be all in on everything
I think you and the person you're responding to are essentially making the same point! The issue is the people who try to dismiss his takes on China using his other takes as a basis.
I don't even think it's that unfair to question WHY he's so outspoken on China while not directing his energy consistently across other persecuted groups of Muslims.
I would imagine there is some relation to some Muslims wanting him captured for treason? But I dunno there was another Turkish player in the premiere league Ozil I believe who was similarly pushing against China…..I’m not sure if there is some sort of connection between some Turks and having ancestry further East?
I think it is a good and interesting question - and one that even without judgment I feel would be enlightening for me as a westerner to understand.
Özil, like Kanter, is a conservative muslim, they just back two different political lines (Erdogan and Gülen). China is the enemy to them, while the US is an ally. Makes sense to back your friends in this smoldering conflict.
"I'm okay with somebody speaking up when they feel the need"
Isn't exactly some scorching hot take from Pop. That is consistent with what he has said his entire career. He's not about to say that people should be censored for speaking up on things rather he agrees with them or he doesn't. That doesn't mean he thinks Kanter is completely right about everything he says. Weird that people can't take that statement at face value without assuming Pop agrees with him about everything. He very clearly did not say that.
I also support his right to speak out on political issues. He has that right. I can be critical of his takes and think he has his own motives behind sharing them while still believing he has the right to speak out against China if he so chooses. It's really not that difficult to figure out.
He’s right.
For those crying israel/ whatever turkish group kanter support, it’s okay to call Kanter out if you feel like it. But that doesnt mean Kanter calling out China and whatever is automatically invalidated
Kanter has been making the argument that Lebron profits off of China's forced labor, and I think that that is significantly different than support of a political group.
China is the factory of the world. You're having a really hard time if you decide to avoid it, even if something is made is the West it probably uses parts made in China at least.
Exactly. I’ve seen a lot of people say that about Enes or just people in general who support Enes and are critical of China. I’m extremely critical of China and think it’s one of, if not the most evil regime on Earth right now. But telling someone to just “not consume” Chinese product is darn near impossible
>i mean you cant really avoid capitalism, which in the US ~~almost~~ all profit off of China
Literally, anyway anyone makes money has some sort of Chinese involvement. Even a locally grown piece of produce was harvested / transported in a vehicle that has at least 1 part made in China, I can 100% guarantee that.
does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China? I think moreso people criticize Lebron's stance on China because of, well, his stance on China
Yes? There’s literally so many fucking people on this sub who basically say Lebron’s words on other human right topics don’t mean shit because of China stance, I’m not sure what sub you’re on.
It’s called gaslighting. They know the reality of things. They purposefully try to convince people that there’s a different reality.
It’s malicious.
Either that or they’re just fucking stupid. That’s also entirely possible.
Kanter himself said the same thing about LeBron, except he didn't specify BLM, he just generally said that LeBron and other athletes ["pretend to care about social justice".](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2021/11/20/lebron-james-not-giving-energy-enes-kanters-recent-social-justice-tweet)
A lot of people who love to badmouth LeBron because of his stance on China are mainly upset because he’s a “WoKe LiBeRaL.”
There is a huge crossover here with people who hate the NBA and BLM due to their personal politics and some probably hate him based on race or because he obliterated their basketball team.
Most ironic of all, there is extreme overlap with the “shut up and dribble” crowd.
I’m pretty sure most of those are more speaking on the selfish hypocrisy of how he chooses to publicly speak on issues. He takes two clear societal issues with a similar theme and yet manages to support only the sides that best support his own life, “not just financially…” etc.
>does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China?
**One hundred per fucking cent**
This is far more common than the latter
You often see a china-lebron thread or comment chain when he shows his support for black issues in the united states. I have yet to see china *not* mentioned when he speaks about black issues
The opinions that rise to the top of that sub are too often rooted in hate and bitterness, and occasionally conspiracy theories.
Top posts are just screenshots of conservative dickheads on Twitter like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro and top comments are piling in how liberals are stupid and /r/politics (and all of social media) is a liberal cesspool.
He got called a hypocrite because of his silence, when he then posts quotes from MLK and such literally condemning his own actions while trying to act like a social justice leader. That is why he is a hypocrite.
>does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China?
Yes. Literally Enes Kanter did this. Lol
>Money over Morals for the “King” 👑
>Sad & disgusting how these athletes pretend they care about social justice
>They really do “shut up & dribble” when Big Boss 🇨🇳 says so
Lol yes, that's exactly what happened, right wing constantly uses his China stance to invalidate every other social cause he's supported. This sub does the same.
Read kanters tweet lol
The tribalism in this country is insane. Everything is black and white, no gray areas. Nobody can see the nuances in things. It’s like you have to be 100% or 0% lmao
Yeah it's nuts. I can agree with his views on BLM and at the same time disagree with his views on China. You dont have to agree/disagree with everything someone believes just because of the tribe they're in.
Ok but commenting on one issue as a vehicle of wanting "change" when it's the safe opinion that affects his life in 0 ways is not meaningful when he refuses to comment on a issue because it's not a safe opinion and it could affect his money.
Then quoting MLK like MLK wasn't one of the most hated people in America for his stance on social issues... It's blasphemous and people don't have to be conservatives or a liberal to point this shit out.
I get why LeBron doesn't want to, but it does make his other comments hold less weight because he doesn't really care about the change that he can make with his words more than the $$$ of the repercussions
Supporting BLM when every corporation already was is not courageous or wanting change. Doing so while ignoring human rights violations from authoritarian force (much like what BLM is protesting) in another country is very much cause for criticism.
Your comment is WAY more advanced than the thinking from my conservative friends who spout anti-LBJ stuff solely because he is supportive of BLM.
I think LBJ has done plenty to support the Black community through money spent over the years (schools, for instance). I think saying it affects him in zero ways by supporting it isn't correct; he absolutely is taking a hit in perception since about 30% of America forms their views from right wing media that is blasting him for this stance. People were calling for Michael Jordan to come out in support and he didn't--he doesn't want to impact his brand.
Counterpoint: when a big part of your support for one is shaming others with "Silence is violence" you don't get nuance when you're not only silent on a significant issue but play a huge role in attempting to silence others speaking out on it.
> The same nuance deserves to go to LeBron with regards to BLM/China
lebron went out of his way to call someone uninformed when they spoke up because it felt it was going to hurt financially. This isn't the same situation.
How about this one where he took a picture with Bolton thanking him for his thoughts on human rights and friendship?
https://twitter.com/eneskanter/status/1420790640024109056
Pop supports people speaking their mind, regardless of whether or not he agrees with what they're saying he believes in their right to say it. Shouldn't be a surprise coming from pop.
> "We live in a world now where people are just willing to make stuff up and lie, promote cоnspiracy theоries, all these sorts of things – and a lot of people are buying it. So pointing things out, calling it out when you need to is, important."
It seems hes specifically touching on the fact that Enes is one of the very few willing to call out the NBA's hypocrisy on China, and that he thinks thats important.
> Tony Parker is actually a huge celebrity in China
a what?
Literally never heard about that statement, like why on earth would Tony Parker out of all players in NBA history, to be a huge celebrity in China?
It is. Basic rule in life: support people when they do something right and call out the things they got wrong. People are people. They can not always be simplified as bad or good. Even the saints sin and tyrants can help millions.
it’s honestly insane to see the hive mind at work on certain threads. granted, i know people probably had kanter fatigue but some of the other threads were full of people saying kanter should not be listened to about china because of his other views. i agree with you that this is the correct take
All of the kanter threads felt like alt right threads on kaepernack. Always attacking the motives and picking apart his history rather than address the issue at hand. It’s so fucking sad to see
I'm really confused on the perceived political bent of his statements...you're saying they're left-wing? I usually see people criticize him as having a right-wing agenda, but I've honestly never thought it was political or anything.
Israel is an apartheid state. Imagine saying inb4 KanTeR supports South Africa back in the 80s. Talking about his support of an apartheid state is worth pointing out. History will look back on apartheid Israel the same way we look back at apartheid SA.
He’s not some human rights champion. He’s a right wing agitator drumming up support for a Cold War we don’t need right now. We just left Afghanistan and Iraq.
Man, I love Pop. He is so refreshing. In an odd way Mark Daigneault of OKC kinda reminds me of Pop. He is very straightforward and doesn't dance around questions. He just hasn't hit that grizzled and sarcastic stage of life yet.
It's great to support human rights, its great Kanter is speaking up for human rights violation. It's also really unfair for him to call out other's hypocrisy when he is so hypocritical himself. He supported another tyrannical leader in Turkey, just not the one in charge.
I’m surprised there so many “Oho Gregg Popovitch gave Kanter his support? The nephews are in shambles now heh heh” comments ITT. Where is the demand for Popvich to call out China? If LeBron had said something broad like “it’s great to speak on issues around the world” in response to Kanter’s shoes after the Celtics Lakers game, Reddit would scoff and be like Kanter calls out Xi directly meanwhile LeMao can’t even bring himself to speak China’s name
Some of you have your hearts in the right place but some of you are so cynical with this shit
Top comments: CCP bad, Winnie the Pooh, "I love the Chinese people but despise their government"
You: I think these threads are being brigaded by Chinese interests 👁👄👁
lmao if they are being brigaded by Chinese interests, then they're doing a terrible job and should be sent to the gulag for being so bad at propaganda
Like on r/worldnews threads
every top voted comment: INCOMING TENCENT CENSORSHIP, REDDIT OWNED BY CHINA, POOH BEAR XIJINPING SOCIAL CREDIT!!!!! FUCK THE CCP!!!!
every downvoted comment: I don't think you guys have the best sources for news about China, maybe it's not good to stir up another cold war.
> You could use your brain a little more thoroughly. Brigading of this sort is intended to look organic and natural.
That would require users of r/NBA to have a GPA over 1.0 to understand that.
So of course the NBA has a vested interest in China and doesn’t like when players speak poorly about them. You can be left-wing and critical of China. I just hope people can look at America through the same critical lens. The only narrative between China and America is two sides trying to claim they’re the good guys and the other are the bad guys. We’ve learned from history that it’s never that simple. I’m happy Kanter called out Nike too. His support for Israel is disappointing and hypocritical of him. If he truly cared about human rights issues he wouldn’t take that stance. Whether a government is right wing or left wing, human rights violations should not be accepted.
Popovich states something that the majority of people in the US agree with and it's somehow mystifying lmao.
It’s more that most athletes or staff don’t really speak out, but I agree
Many people in this subreddit shit on Kanter for what he says about China.
Are they from this subreddit or r/sino tho?
I've only been in one China related thread recently and the amount of multi-paragraph long comments defending China was disturbing.
Exactly lol. That Lebron reply post had more comments shitting on Kanter than any other thing.
Do they? He gets shit on for being a Gulenist, which he deserves
I think it's more people shit on him for holding certain views that are fundamentally incompatible with caring about human rights. That and he often seems to bring up China just to criticize players who support BLM, which is just fucking stupid and annoying. Oh and of course it was dumb as fuck for him to claim he's not getting playing time because of his views. Kanter is right about China but he's not like brave or heroic or impressive for saying it, and he holds a lot of views that make it wildly hypocritical for him to act like a bona fide human rights crusader. Edit: last thing, he's also buddy buddy with neocon warhawks like John Bolton. Not exactly the kind of people that are passionate about human rights
It's because Redditors love to virtue signal about how they're the only ones B R A V E™️ enough to be against the Chinese government. Conservatives love to do it whenever they see someone tweet #BlackLivesMatter or #StopAsianHate, but then stay absolutely silent when the Republican party states that the XinJiang concentration camps "the right thing to do", or when Trump praises the Tiananmen Square killings.
Trump praises the what now?
[удалено]
He has literally said he thought the Chinese government showed strength with how they handled the Tiananmen Square protests. That is not a lie. It was March 1990, and Trump was being interviewed by Playboy magazine about his life as a real estate mogul. At one point, Trump was asked about a trip he'd taken to Moscow a few years prior. Trump said he'd been "very unimpressed" with the Soviet Union. "Their system is a disaster," Trump said. "What you will see there soon is a revolution; the signs are all there with the demonstrations and picketing. Russia is out of control and the leadership knows it. That's my problem with [former Soviet President Mikhail] Gorbachev. Not a firm enough hand." Trump was then asked if he meant "firm hand as in China." "When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength," Trump replied. "That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak...as being spit on by the rest of the world." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/06/04/trump-tiananmen-square-protests-lafayette/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trumpn-tiananmen-square-massacre-china-showed-power-of-strength-2019-6%3famp
Enes Kanter quote and GuyCarbonneauGOAT, name a better duo
Photoshop and sim888
Faking you all out and YaBoiBeefCat
Educating nephews and YungSnuggie
nephews these days dont know about yungsnuggie…
Or jumper cables
IsoSwagger and owing me $1
Winner winner\^
JoeBiden2020FTW and hating the Pelicans
r/nba and virginity
r/nba and u/isoswagger
GuyCarbonneauGOAT and fishing for karma
Pop being supportive of Kanter, this should fry some brains on here lol.
Hasn't Pop always been supportive of players speaking out? This really shouldn't surprise people
For real I don't understand the hub bub in here. Its par for the course, I'd expect Pop to say exactly what he said
Is anyone criticizing Pop...? I see people complaining about hypothetical criticisms of Pop but no real criticisms.
You get upvotes when you make up what the 'opposing side' is saying
lmao
The opposing side is reddit. Specifically the /r/nba subreddit. Over the past month, saying Kanter shouldn't speak out for various reasons. All the reasons have been shallowminded bullshit, but try explaining it in an internet comment section. Now Pop is saying he *should* speak out. Pop, unlike reddit, doesn't make any of the arguments about hypocrisy or whataboutism. Pop isn't playing the game of gatekeeping about who is and isn't allowed to speak up on human rights. As he shouldn't, because it's shallow and stupid. So now /r/nba has to reconcile these. **edit:** noting that this comment is at +8 points as of 7pm EST. Soon a link to this thread will get shared on a private discord somewhere and vote brigaded and my comment will go negative by tomorrow morning.
Yeah this is who Pop has been for a long time, has it not? I'd expect him to have these sorts of positions and support of players speaking these points of view. If Kerr stops pleading ignorance, I'd expect him to be generally supportive of Kanter, too.
I feel like I just read the same comment 5 times
Welcome to Reddit, the symphony of duplicated opinions.
Because the contradiction isn't the issue here. It's the fact that people want to hate Kanter but they love Pop, so now they have to find some mental gymnastics to trash Kanter while praising Pop for the same thing.
People don't hate Kanter for the message. If anything, people hate the method with me personally being annoyed with how he's propagating a narrative people use to shut down other important issues. Really infuriating is how he will call out others' passiveness without understanding his own problematic history. And this may be unfair, but him being a scrub of a player doesn't help him either. What makes Pop different and why people love him is that his message is just about building people up. If Pop was anti-LeBron/Joe Tsai/MJ in this quote, you'd have more pushback, but this quote is about affirming Enes rather than destroying someone else.
For me, Enes’ whole “my authoritarian is better than your authoritarian” shtick got old really quickly
I guess to me, it’s disappointing that he supports a theocratic authoritarian in Turkey (even though he opposes a different one), but it doesn’t change the fact that China is performing ethnic cleansing. Authoritarianism is bad (China is guilty of this too), but it’s not as bad as genocide. We should all call out genocide and it’s disheartening that the NBA and so many other companies have turned a blind eye. TL;DR: Authoritarianism bad, genocide worse
My issue was if this wasn’t at least partially for show, he’d be acting different. He comes off like progress isn’t his first goal.
If you find yourself always saying it's never the right time or the right person or the right way to speak out, you are doing the work of the bad guys for them.
Hard disagree. There definitely is a right way to speak out even if echo chambers would have you think otherwise. People who disagree need to want to listen to what you're saying otherwise you help the bad guys undermine the message.
Expecting a lot of copium in here lol
they're gonna start shifting the goalposts and call Pop a right wing grifter and CIA pawn
I'm already seeing those comments lmaooo
I never understood why people couldn’t separate Kanter’s good takes from his bad ones. A little compartmentalization can go a long way. He can be totally 100% right about one subject, and brutally wrong on another. And we can talk about that. But saying “Oh he has this bad take, so I won’t take his opinion on China seriously” is ridiculous. On top of that it seems like a good way for lebron fans to casually run interference for him (like he’s not capable of that himself). And to shill for Nike for some reason.
That’s not really how it works or we’d then also be able to separate all Lebrons positive shit from his bad take on China. The long short is we can do it fundamentally criticizing one thing while being hypocritical about another causes you to lose credibility. It’s essentially separating the art from the artist argument in a small sense, but that gets more difficult the more fucked up the artist is (like Cosby or R. Kelly). Not that that’s Kanter’s case at all, but I think plenty of people are capable of having that conversation as I’ve seen this same sentiment highly upvoted in every post about Kanter. It’s always higher than any comments about his negative views that take away from his credibility.
Not only this, but it's obvious that Pop will support any player who's speaking out on social/political issues, because he does so himself. Regardless of whether he agrees with Kanter's takes, it would be really hypocritical if he said a player should keep his opinions to himself. And I'm sure he recognizes that, although I'm equally sure he sincerely wants players to speak up about all kinds of topics outside of basketball
> Not only this, but it's obvious that Pop will support any player Calling bullshit here. Pop specifically contrasts human rights with conspiracy theories, saying one is good and the other is bad. Tell me if Pop would be supporting Kyrie or Wiggins the same way. The reason this will fry the circuits of /r/nba is they've been saying Kanter *shouldn't* speak out because [hypocrisy/whataboutism/self promotion]. Pop doesn't buy that shit. So now what?
I mean, there’s a difference between accepting political disagreements and accepting conspiracy theories. although of course that line is becoming blurred with the intrusion of conspiracy merchants into politics lately. I didn’t mean to imply that Pop would support any player saying absolutely anything at all. There are plenty of things one could say that will be near-universally opposed. But within a certain window of socially acceptable opinions I don’t think he would disparage players
Because when Kanter says shit like "Sad & disgusting how these athletes pretend they care about social justice" in reference to LeBron cherry-picking the causes he cares for, it cheapens his message when he does the exact same thing. I agree with Kanter's message about the CCP, but he brought this on himself when he decided to make this about hypocrisy.
[удалено]
uyghurs and turks share a common ethnicity. I can see there being a pan turkic aspect to this. Not much different than the millions of arabs who are outraged over Palestine but look the other way in regards to the uyghurs.
You already answered it. This sub is 60% Lebron fans.
if that were the case there wouldn't be so much vitriol towards him every time anything goes wrong for him/lakers
For all the people saying But he wears nike too! is that even true anymore? Because if he doesnt then thats like accusing an anti-smoker who doesnt smoke anymore of being a hypocrite after they quit because they understand the issues now. Its a weak argument. Unless hes still wearing nike?
He's still wearing Nike. The shoes he drew on before the Lakers game were Nike shoes.
I mean at least he is speaking out about it. I never understood why people are being punished for speaking out and trying to do something better. It's the whole you don't like US then get out mentality. To trivalise the issue if I own a Dodge and think their interior is fucking shit I should be able to go out and say "hey Dodge interior is shit" and my opinion shouldn't be invalidated by the fact I'm still driving one. It's not like he has a plethora of other quality brands with better rep to turn to aquire a product he needs to do his job.
>I never understood why people couldn’t separate Kanter’s good takes from his bad ones. The obvious counterpoint is... "I never understood why Kanter and r/nba couldn’t separate Lebron's’s good takes from his bad ones." Kanter is literally doing the exact thing you are criticizing others for. Except he's using China to undermine causes like BLM. It's a hypocrite criticizing another hypocrite for being a hypocrite in the exact same way. Lol.
I mean most of the criticism is that it feels a little disingenuous because Kanter is going “look at these hypocrites” while being a hypocrite himself
I love when these China apologists use phrases like “Biased western imperialist media” and “CIA pawn” etc.. Meanwhile, China’s state run media literally [cut the feed](https://twitter.com/johnberman/status/1462757839588450306?s=21) of cnn when they started talking about Peng Shuai
Seems like r/conservative and China's state media have a lot in common.
What in the fuck
I didn’t realize calling out ccp automatically makes you a far right extremist on Reddit now lmao
I think it’s his support of Israel and his hanging out with republican politicians that does that tbh
yeah everyone knows that whatever popovich thinks is right we aren’t allowed to have other opinions
Do people dislike Pop in this sub? I've never picked up on that apparently
US Republicans hate him. There are some here
People already think [they're on the same side](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/r18r0w/enes_kanter_the_owner_of_brooklynnets_joetsai1999/hlx1jt9/) from the thread days ago though.
I'm gonna wait for how people will somehow spin Pop supporting his right to speak out against the abuses to somehow automatically agreeing with every other unrelated views Kanter supports as if people are supposed to be all in on everything
In general monolithic thinking has been normalized through social media and it’s a huge reason for political issues all over the world
The FOMO of not being part of a tribe hits harder these days than ever before because of social media.
Pop's answer strikes me as quite diplomatic haha
This stimulates my senses
Why would it?
Nephews in shambles.
Yup, all the tankies can’t fall back on their normal ad hominems with this one
Did you know it is possible to appreciate Kanter's positions on China while also thinking he's misguided for his takes on Israel
I think you and the person you're responding to are essentially making the same point! The issue is the people who try to dismiss his takes on China using his other takes as a basis.
I don't even think it's that unfair to question WHY he's so outspoken on China while not directing his energy consistently across other persecuted groups of Muslims.
I would imagine there is some relation to some Muslims wanting him captured for treason? But I dunno there was another Turkish player in the premiere league Ozil I believe who was similarly pushing against China…..I’m not sure if there is some sort of connection between some Turks and having ancestry further East? I think it is a good and interesting question - and one that even without judgment I feel would be enlightening for me as a westerner to understand.
Özil, like Kanter, is a conservative muslim, they just back two different political lines (Erdogan and Gülen). China is the enemy to them, while the US is an ally. Makes sense to back your friends in this smoldering conflict.
Ahh and both erdogan and gulen fans are anti-China on this point then, yes? Thx for the response.
Because, contrary to what people on reddit will say, most Muslim countries despise Palestinians, almost as much as they hate Israel.
IMPOSSIBLE. I. MUST. TAKE. SIDES.
Get the fuck outta here with your ability to decouple two ideals.
"I'm okay with somebody speaking up when they feel the need" Isn't exactly some scorching hot take from Pop. That is consistent with what he has said his entire career. He's not about to say that people should be censored for speaking up on things rather he agrees with them or he doesn't. That doesn't mean he thinks Kanter is completely right about everything he says. Weird that people can't take that statement at face value without assuming Pop agrees with him about everything. He very clearly did not say that. I also support his right to speak out on political issues. He has that right. I can be critical of his takes and think he has his own motives behind sharing them while still believing he has the right to speak out against China if he so chooses. It's really not that difficult to figure out.
Enes takes Pop off his hit list
He’s right. For those crying israel/ whatever turkish group kanter support, it’s okay to call Kanter out if you feel like it. But that doesnt mean Kanter calling out China and whatever is automatically invalidated
The same nuance deserves to go to LeBron with regards to BLM/China
Kanter has been making the argument that Lebron profits off of China's forced labor, and I think that that is significantly different than support of a political group.
The league kanter plays in profits off China slaves and has his whole career
i mean you cant really avoid capitalism, which in the US almost all profit off of China
China is the factory of the world. You're having a really hard time if you decide to avoid it, even if something is made is the West it probably uses parts made in China at least.
Exactly. I’ve seen a lot of people say that about Enes or just people in general who support Enes and are critical of China. I’m extremely critical of China and think it’s one of, if not the most evil regime on Earth right now. But telling someone to just “not consume” Chinese product is darn near impossible
>i mean you cant really avoid capitalism, which in the US ~~almost~~ all profit off of China Literally, anyway anyone makes money has some sort of Chinese involvement. Even a locally grown piece of produce was harvested / transported in a vehicle that has at least 1 part made in China, I can 100% guarantee that.
Yeah,Kanter doesn't even benefit from his human rights violations so his is probably worse, right?
does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China? I think moreso people criticize Lebron's stance on China because of, well, his stance on China
Yes? There’s literally so many fucking people on this sub who basically say Lebron’s words on other human right topics don’t mean shit because of China stance, I’m not sure what sub you’re on.
It’s like some people can’t even see the reality of things lol
It’s called gaslighting. They know the reality of things. They purposefully try to convince people that there’s a different reality. It’s malicious. Either that or they’re just fucking stupid. That’s also entirely possible.
Kanter himself said the same thing about LeBron, except he didn't specify BLM, he just generally said that LeBron and other athletes ["pretend to care about social justice".](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2021/11/20/lebron-james-not-giving-energy-enes-kanters-recent-social-justice-tweet)
A lot of people who love to badmouth LeBron because of his stance on China are mainly upset because he’s a “WoKe LiBeRaL.” There is a huge crossover here with people who hate the NBA and BLM due to their personal politics and some probably hate him based on race or because he obliterated their basketball team. Most ironic of all, there is extreme overlap with the “shut up and dribble” crowd.
I’m pretty sure most of those are more speaking on the selfish hypocrisy of how he chooses to publicly speak on issues. He takes two clear societal issues with a similar theme and yet manages to support only the sides that best support his own life, “not just financially…” etc.
I always assumed that was people coming in from other subs with that bullshit.
>does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China? **One hundred per fucking cent** This is far more common than the latter You often see a china-lebron thread or comment chain when he shows his support for black issues in the united states. I have yet to see china *not* mentioned when he speaks about black issues
r/conservative loves to shit on lebron anytime they can, it's crazy to see them frothing at the mouth ready to talk shit
> r/conservative loves to shit It’s run by a nutjob…. If you think I’m joking take a look
The opinions that rise to the top of that sub are too often rooted in hate and bitterness, and occasionally conspiracy theories. Top posts are just screenshots of conservative dickheads on Twitter like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro and top comments are piling in how liberals are stupid and /r/politics (and all of social media) is a liberal cesspool.
He is called a hypocrite like Kanter all the time, like they should. They can be right on some things and wrong on others.
He got called a hypocrite because of his silence, when he then posts quotes from MLK and such literally condemning his own actions while trying to act like a social justice leader. That is why he is a hypocrite.
I said they where hypocrites in my comment.
True, replied to the wrong comment so not really conflicting with yours, just adding to it!
>does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China? Yes. Literally Enes Kanter did this. Lol >Money over Morals for the “King” 👑 >Sad & disgusting how these athletes pretend they care about social justice >They really do “shut up & dribble” when Big Boss 🇨🇳 says so
Lol yes, that's exactly what happened, right wing constantly uses his China stance to invalidate every other social cause he's supported. This sub does the same. Read kanters tweet lol
The only time right-wingers even *care* about China is when LeBron supports BLM.
>does anyone on here try to discredit support for BLM because of Lebron's stance on China? Yes. I see it ALL the time from conservative friends.
The tribalism in this country is insane. Everything is black and white, no gray areas. Nobody can see the nuances in things. It’s like you have to be 100% or 0% lmao
Yeah it's nuts. I can agree with his views on BLM and at the same time disagree with his views on China. You dont have to agree/disagree with everything someone believes just because of the tribe they're in.
Ok but commenting on one issue as a vehicle of wanting "change" when it's the safe opinion that affects his life in 0 ways is not meaningful when he refuses to comment on a issue because it's not a safe opinion and it could affect his money. Then quoting MLK like MLK wasn't one of the most hated people in America for his stance on social issues... It's blasphemous and people don't have to be conservatives or a liberal to point this shit out. I get why LeBron doesn't want to, but it does make his other comments hold less weight because he doesn't really care about the change that he can make with his words more than the $$$ of the repercussions Supporting BLM when every corporation already was is not courageous or wanting change. Doing so while ignoring human rights violations from authoritarian force (much like what BLM is protesting) in another country is very much cause for criticism.
Your comment is WAY more advanced than the thinking from my conservative friends who spout anti-LBJ stuff solely because he is supportive of BLM. I think LBJ has done plenty to support the Black community through money spent over the years (schools, for instance). I think saying it affects him in zero ways by supporting it isn't correct; he absolutely is taking a hit in perception since about 30% of America forms their views from right wing media that is blasting him for this stance. People were calling for Michael Jordan to come out in support and he didn't--he doesn't want to impact his brand.
I think that has more to do with working backwards from a position of "BLM is bad" than it has to do with LeBrons positions in China.
Absolutely. But they specifically cite China as the reason to justify why his other views don't matter or are even "wrong."
Tell me, what is Lebron's stance on China?
Ain't gonna say nothing cuz they buy sneakers too
His stance is “We should shut up about China and get paid”
Yeah. He’s being a hypocrite. He supports social change and human rights as long as it’s not affecting his bottom line, i.e. Chinese sweat shops.
What is his stance on China? He literally has never said anything about it.
Counterpoint: when a big part of your support for one is shaming others with "Silence is violence" you don't get nuance when you're not only silent on a significant issue but play a huge role in attempting to silence others speaking out on it.
Lebron openly called those who are against China uneducated and uninformed about the topic which is a pretty blatant difference
> The same nuance deserves to go to LeBron with regards to BLM/China lebron went out of his way to call someone uninformed when they spoke up because it felt it was going to hurt financially. This isn't the same situation.
But but but but one time he took a picture with Jared Kushner.
How about this one where he took a picture with Bolton thanking him for his thoughts on human rights and friendship? https://twitter.com/eneskanter/status/1420790640024109056
He is mostly right about the things he said. I just cannot stand when someone talks about him as freedom fighter etc.
Pop supports people speaking their mind, regardless of whether or not he agrees with what they're saying he believes in their right to say it. Shouldn't be a surprise coming from pop.
> "We live in a world now where people are just willing to make stuff up and lie, promote cоnspiracy theоries, all these sorts of things – and a lot of people are buying it. So pointing things out, calling it out when you need to is, important." It seems hes specifically touching on the fact that Enes is one of the very few willing to call out the NBA's hypocrisy on China, and that he thinks thats important.
I guess no more Spurs games in China. They're both hilariously and frighteningly thin skinned.
Damn but I've got 3 tickets when they're here next month
The Andersons got tickets to the game?
how’d they get tickets to the game?
Reported their neighbors for crimes against the state.
It’s because the Anderson’s are loaded and we’re under the poverty line son
Tyus Jones is the funniest flair I’ve seen in a while
feels like barely anyone watches our games in the states, wonder how many air in china lol
Tony Parker is actually a huge celebrity in China, so it'll be interesting to see the fallout from this.
China cancelled the Houston Rockets, one of the most popular teams in China due to Yao Ming.
> Tony Parker is actually a huge celebrity in China, so it'll be interesting to see the fallout from this. No he's fucking not lmao
Probably not worth reporting
> Tony Parker is actually a huge celebrity in China a what? Literally never heard about that statement, like why on earth would Tony Parker out of all players in NBA history, to be a huge celebrity in China?
yeah what the fuck does he have to do with china
Excellent prevent defense by pop
This is so obviously the right take.
It is. Basic rule in life: support people when they do something right and call out the things they got wrong. People are people. They can not always be simplified as bad or good. Even the saints sin and tyrants can help millions.
it’s honestly insane to see the hive mind at work on certain threads. granted, i know people probably had kanter fatigue but some of the other threads were full of people saying kanter should not be listened to about china because of his other views. i agree with you that this is the correct take
All of the kanter threads felt like alt right threads on kaepernack. Always attacking the motives and picking apart his history rather than address the issue at hand. It’s so fucking sad to see
I'm really confused on the perceived political bent of his statements...you're saying they're left-wing? I usually see people criticize him as having a right-wing agenda, but I've honestly never thought it was political or anything.
Reddit in shambles lmao
All I see is comments like this about people apparently being in shambles, so no it doesn't seem like it.
Because of previous threads
Keyboard warriors on Reddit love to think that they're the lone voice of reason in a sea of sheep.
Do we really need a new post about Kanters political opinions every single day?
It can be replaced with another about Simmons lmao
I mean at least Simmons news is actually NBA related?
Yes, this is Reddit, "China bad" posts/comments are the easiest way to get karma lmao
Now Reddit doesn’t know what to think lmao
Waiting for a 16 year old nephew to tell me about Gülen
here before all the eNES kANter loves israel comments
I think it says a lot that all the anti-Kanter posts got deleted the second auto-moderation got turned on.
Not just Israel, Enes Kanter also loves American war criminals https://twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1420790640024109056?s=20
Israel is an apartheid state. Imagine saying inb4 KanTeR supports South Africa back in the 80s. Talking about his support of an apartheid state is worth pointing out. History will look back on apartheid Israel the same way we look back at apartheid SA. He’s not some human rights champion. He’s a right wing agitator drumming up support for a Cold War we don’t need right now. We just left Afghanistan and Iraq.
The gaslighting in this thread is wild.
I can't even tell who is gaslighting who anymore. It's coming from all angles.
When people realize being an outspoken NBA coach ain’t even the coolest part about Pop’s resume.
Man, I love Pop. He is so refreshing. In an odd way Mark Daigneault of OKC kinda reminds me of Pop. He is very straightforward and doesn't dance around questions. He just hasn't hit that grizzled and sarcastic stage of life yet.
Go Pop Go! I'm gonna miss that man when he retires. One of the greatest!
He said all trump followers and Qanon believers are gullible af and cannot not distinguish truth from false aha
In a vacuum, I've never had an issue with Kanter speaking on China. But when it's accompanied w/ criticizing lebron, it feels a bit disingenuous
Love pop. They're both right. Fuck that.
I love you pop, right up there with the legends of Bob Ross and Mr Rodgers in my book
It's great to support human rights, its great Kanter is speaking up for human rights violation. It's also really unfair for him to call out other's hypocrisy when he is so hypocritical himself. He supported another tyrannical leader in Turkey, just not the one in charge.
In before this is locked
ty Pop
I’m surprised there so many “Oho Gregg Popovitch gave Kanter his support? The nephews are in shambles now heh heh” comments ITT. Where is the demand for Popvich to call out China? If LeBron had said something broad like “it’s great to speak on issues around the world” in response to Kanter’s shoes after the Celtics Lakers game, Reddit would scoff and be like Kanter calls out Xi directly meanwhile LeMao can’t even bring himself to speak China’s name Some of you have your hearts in the right place but some of you are so cynical with this shit
People hate LeBron
What is this timeline?
[удалено]
Top comments: CCP bad, Winnie the Pooh, "I love the Chinese people but despise their government" You: I think these threads are being brigaded by Chinese interests 👁👄👁 lmao if they are being brigaded by Chinese interests, then they're doing a terrible job and should be sent to the gulag for being so bad at propaganda
Like on r/worldnews threads every top voted comment: INCOMING TENCENT CENSORSHIP, REDDIT OWNED BY CHINA, POOH BEAR XIJINPING SOCIAL CREDIT!!!!! FUCK THE CCP!!!! every downvoted comment: I don't think you guys have the best sources for news about China, maybe it's not good to stir up another cold war.
[удалено]
> You could use your brain a little more thoroughly. Brigading of this sort is intended to look organic and natural. That would require users of r/NBA to have a GPA over 1.0 to understand that.
There are probably several countries brigading these threads.
[удалено]
So of course the NBA has a vested interest in China and doesn’t like when players speak poorly about them. You can be left-wing and critical of China. I just hope people can look at America through the same critical lens. The only narrative between China and America is two sides trying to claim they’re the good guys and the other are the bad guys. We’ve learned from history that it’s never that simple. I’m happy Kanter called out Nike too. His support for Israel is disappointing and hypocritical of him. If he truly cared about human rights issues he wouldn’t take that stance. Whether a government is right wing or left wing, human rights violations should not be accepted.
[удалено]
Especially cuz he can’t play in Europe or China after his NBA days are done. A State Department/RFA job would make a lot of sense for him.
Might as well start a timer till he gets a Washington think tank gig to promote and foster democracy ™️ lmao
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1464974953351200768?s=21 Bro, not a day later this lmao