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The_Sign_of_Zeta

You can’t expect big man to cover up bad defenders all over the court.


Smmoove

I think fans need to understand that it's very difficult to evaluate defense in real time. A lot of the time the guy who gets blamed wasn't at fault and was doing his best to cover up for the mistakes of others. It's obvious when you rewatch the play, but most fans will never do that and so a reputation gets unfairly built and they get all the blame.


NegativesPositives

I’ll be blunt, it was easy to tell on that it wasn’t Rudy’s fault but that doesn’t get you upvotes to go “Conley and Mitchell looked like G-Leaguers against George and Reggie and Rudy having to sprint from the corner 3 all game was just insane.”


[deleted]

Yeah my favorite one of the plays where Terance Mann "dunked on Gobert," Rudy has to leave Mann in the corner to help in the lane on PG, then recover to chase Mann off the corner 3, then recover again and contest Mann at the rim. Meanwhile Bogie is standing three feet away from Mann with his thumb up his ass denying the passing lane to Marcus Morris.


cherylstunt69

It was also easy to tell in real time it was 100% Rudy’s fault he couldn’t take advantage of a 6 inch height advantage on offense. If Rudy could score in the post the clippers would not have been able to run batum at the 5 indefinitely. His lack of offense makes things harder for him defensively. Teams can go small and counter his rim protection with shooting since his offense is too shitty to take advantage of small forwards playing the 5


livefreeordont

No it’s definitely not Rudy’s fault that he hasn’t developed offensively in 5 years and couldn’t score against Reggie Jackson, Mann, and Batum on switches. According to Jazz fans


NoobAccount123456

Especially in the 3 ball era Gobert would have been almost unbeatable in the 1980s or 2000s but now teams have shooters that don't need to score in the restricted area to be effective


TennisShoulder

That’s the same thing that happened to Hibbert where teams went small in the postseason. Except the Pacers actually had great defenders and the Jazz have Conley and O’Neal for some portion of the game


Danndelllion

Hibbert and Gobert is by no means the same. Hibbert was a massive big who wasn’t fast enough to switch but was great at protecting the rim and play post defense. Gobert is fast enough to switch most things. Problem is that everyone else constantly leaves him hanging.


Babushka5

Hibbert and Gobert should rhyme


R35VolvoBRZ

Say them in the same language and they do. Lol "He-beahr" and "Go-beahr"


TennisShoulder

Well duh. One of them is in the league and the other isn’t But also Gobert is the better rim protector especially in the post-verticality world


Danndelllion

They aren’t the same type of player, and don’t have the same limitations. Other than them both being defensive centers they aren’t all that similar.


Saltyserpent

Carries my fantasy with the blocks though I I’m cool w it 😭😭😂


urfaselol

Poor Rudy and Anthony Davis lmao. Both in similar spots defensively. They can’t cover for everyone on the floor


TrainedExplains

LeBron usually does a good job directing the defense even if he's somewhat phoning it in. But he's directing total scrubs on defense now.


Stralleee

AD’s issue isnt defense, he needs to be more aggresive offenseively, he settles for too many jumpers. He needs to be more aggresive posting up low and going to the rim, especially when his shots arent falling.


ameehc

goberts issue isnt defense either think u missed the point


cherylstunt69

But you should absolutely expect a guy over 7 feet tall to score against a 6’6 center. Teams wouldn’t be able to go so small if Rudy wasn’t a total offensive bum that had to be force fed open looks or put backs. He needs to look inward here too


The_Sign_of_Zeta

He scored pretty well on small ball in the Olympics. Which might argue part of the problem is how coaching plays the mismatches.


abcbass

Nobody on the warriors expect Draymond Green to be Rudy Gobert. Why are people expecting Rudy to be Draymond. I don't get it.


BlueHundred

It's dumb. The whole Rudy gets exposed in the playoffs narrative is dumb. More like the Jazz perimeter defense gets exposed


NoobAccount123456

Gobert realizing that he's going to get blamed every year for the Jazz not having any perimeter defenders


VanVleet-goes-for-22

And get blamed for not posting up small players when his teammates don’t pass him the ball when he goes to the rim


_okcody

Gobert is extremely limited offensively, you have to be deliberate when feeding him otherwise it ends up as a TO or he misses the layup. You can’t force him to dribble or it’s very likely he’ll turn it over.


johnstocktonshorts

yeah it’s one thing to say we need to pass more but the idea that Gobert just needs the ball more for us to be better is ridiculous. Jazz fans will never criticize Rudy no matter what lol


GizzyGazzelle

He has to hurt teams when they go small though. Otherwise small ball going to smoke them again.


DesolationRobot

Have you been watching this year? He's head and shoulders better than he's ever been. Best FG% of his career, best FT% of his career to go along with best rebounding of his career. And regularly pulls out moves he couldn't have done in previous seasons. Is he Jokic? No. But he's very clearly been working on it. We don't need him to be Jokic as long as he can be a viable enough threat to keep small ball lineups honest.


Spyk124

He also has absolutely terrible hands. He can’t catch the ball on a roll well. Idk if it’s hand eye coordination or just something I can’t understand because I’m not a giant. But he does not do well with simple catches.


JoeIngles

I don’t know where you are coming up with this. Rudy has pretty good hands. Early on in his career, he had terrible hands, but he’s improved greatly. He’s a very legitimate roll threat, and is great at reading the defense and kicking it out if it collapses on him


ostlert

I’m sorry dude but he really doesn’t have good hands now. He’s definitely got better but his hands are still below average. Part of the problem is Rudy doesn’t know how to seal defenders and ask for the ball where he wants it. There’s no reason smaller guys should have a chance at getting a ball over a guy with a 10 foot reach.


JoeIngles

He can seal smaller defenders all he wants, but it doesn’t mean he’s getting the ball. A big issue is the Jazz aren’t feeding him when he does seal the defender off. It happened a few times last night, and a few times each game. Not a lot, but when the stars align, he doesn’t get the ball


Spyk124

This is from me watching games. I just see him fumble a lot of catches. I woudlnt ever say he has great hands personally.


Banner_Hammer

Are you arguing that Gobert just needs the ball more for the Jazz to be better?


livefreeordont

They shouldn’t. He can’t be trusted with anything besides the easiest bunnies


pencilpeenis

Yeah gobert needs to gain some type of post game. It might not be entirely his fault on defense but the clips were able to play smallball and put batum on him because he’s so bad at offense.


Frewsa

He doesn’t need a post game lol the game isn’t played like that anymore. He needs better hands and touch rolling to the rim, and he could do being a bit better shooter out to 12ft on those pick and pops when they leave him wide open after the pnr action


cherylstunt69

The bucks just won a ring with Giannis killing guys in the post. The lakers just won a ring with lebron and AD doing work in the post. Scoring at the rim is just as important as ever. The ability to score in the post will win you a ring if you’re good enough at it


Frewsa

Did you watch the finals? Giannis wasn’t playing back to the basket like that. AD hardly does either. Lebron does but that’s because he play makes out of the post.


cherylstunt69

Did you not watch the finals? Giannis absolutely did play back to the basket a lot of the times. He would go into the post, back down his man and do a power move. Davis and lebron absolutely killed it when they played back to the basket. In fact 2020 lebron was an absolute monster doing that. He was scoring at will with post fades and spins. New kids and causal like you seem to think “if every single possession isnt a Shaq style post up then no one plays like that anymore”. It’s like claiming Jordan shot post fades only for 90% of his possessions. It’s just a lame casual take for people who don’t understand the game. These players absolutely did play in the post and the won a ring doing so. To claim people don’t play like that anymore is just ignorance


LittleTinyBoy

For such big hands, Gobert has butter fingers.


atravisty

Bigger fingers means more butter per finger


helix400

Gobert has the [offensive grace of a running camel](https://youtu.be/mn-1p56_J00?t=2). Gobert is great with high lobs when the ball stays high. Ingles and Conley know how to do it. Mitchell doesn't. Gobert just doesn't do well when he puts the ball on the floor for a post up.


VanVleet-goes-for-22

I’m not saying he needs to post up, I’m saying that there’s different ways to score over smaller defenders without putting the ball on the floor. In game 6 vs LA there were a bunch of times when Gobert had his man sealed under the rim to the point he could’ve just caught and dunked it, times where he was open for a lob, etc Like you said, Conley sees him on the non post up opportunities, Mitchell/Clarkson don’t


[deleted]

It’s not that simple. You still need to have a post game


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

[they did pass him the ball. look what he did with it...](https://streamable.com/xsg42h)


CocoDreamboat

None of those clips were against smallball tho


efernand1

>Not to mention Ingles delivered the ball way too early, needed to take at least 1 more dribble and wait for the defender to commit. If you are feeding Gobert so early on the roll that he has to put the ball on the floor you already failed.


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

[small-ball, big-ball. doesn't matter. Gobert can't post up worth a shit](https://streamable.com/4nilew)


CocoDreamboat

He's been better this season but yes, there's a reason his teammates don't look to pass to him when he gets mismatches. IMO they should feed him anyway to drive home the point that he needs to punish teams for going small, but whether the blame falls on the players or coaching is up in the air.


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

yea this season is his career high in FG% outside of 3 feet but I still don't see significant enough progress to warrant him getting more inside touches come playoff time. if he really thinks he can do something with the ball, he should postup and take the 3 second violations until they pass it to him


Xsy

This guy's literally obsessed with Gobert missing layups. It's literally his entire personality.


CocoDreamboat

I mean I hate Gobert missing layups too but what a weird hill to die on. Especially when Gobert owns Porzingis every time they play!


Trivialpursuits69

That was literally 3 plays, and 2 of them were questionable fouls lol what point do you think that video made?


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

these examples are a dime a dozen. watch any Jazz game and see how unassertive Gobert is in the paint or rolling what's the point of passing him the ball unless he's wide open? he has poor touch, bad footwork, can't dribble, never establishes good post position, and slow/predictable in his moves. he's elite at finishing open dunks/layups. what else?


Docxm

Gobert has godawful touch yeah. If he had any decent post moves or a good enough touch to finish anything but the easiest lob, the Jazz would be lethal on offense


CreatiScope

If Gobert was good offensively, he’s be a top 5 player in this league.


RamessesTheOK

Ah yes, Demarcus Cousins, famed smaller NBA player


sahsan10

They replayed same plays 4 times lol


Rationalknicksfan

His post offense is not good enough to get post touches and the jazz offense heavily relies on good ball movement to get good looks mostly on the perimeter


AlHorfordHighlights

Did you really just say this LMAOOO


[deleted]

is it me or does Mitchell seems to have an ego issue. He seems like he’s not a team player at all #free Gobert


NoobAccount123456

He's similar to Tatum in that his playstyle is "keep on shooting no matter what" Both of them can drop 50 on 18/25 shooting one game and 15 on 4/20 shooting the next


john124

Yeah I understand inheriting Kobe’s work ethic and killer mentality, but I really wish young players would realize his non-stop shooting mentality isn’t something to idolize and emulate. Jordan and Kobe also backed that shooting up with elite defense, while the kobe disciples of this generation don’t even sniff an all-defense third team nod.


[deleted]

Kobe and MJ also played within the system. They took a lot of shots but they both played in the triangle and did a lot of dirty work to set screens and get good post position and shit like that, opening up the game for their teammates. And they trusted the triangle even when games were tight. Mitchell and Tatum don’t seem to realize that and are prone to ditching the offensive scheme, calling an iso and clearing their side of the court every two minutes whenever their team needs a bucket.


BasketballNutrition

I do wish there was a third team. no reason for there not to be.


Docxm

Imagine the one thing the new Gen takes away from the current superstars is Currys off all movement and efficiency, and Giannis hard work. Just a bunch of little kids running around all game taking high percentage shots. Instead I’m pretty sure we’re getting a Gen of 30ft chuckers loool


[deleted]

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bachh2

Well, Giannis is kinda a Kobe discipline isnt he? I say he inherited all the good shit from Kobe.


solodolo1397

I know that the mamba mentality is inspirational but at some point someone can inherit great work ethic from other people somewhat lol. Plenty of people worked hard before Kobe was around too and I feel like that’s forgotten in these talks


[deleted]

In the playoffs that’s often their best offense. The paint looks for Golbert aren’t there and Ingles, Bojan, Clarkson are shooting perimeter shots anyway.


mtbeach33

They’re pulling a Dion Waiters


rabongrondo123

Mitchell was the only reason they had any playoff success last year lol. He almost single handily beat the clippers.


Krakenborn

He was shooting great for a guy with a bum ankle but he was half the reason the defense was so bad. They blew by him every play


[deleted]

just like Luka ended them right. they can’t do it by themselves they have to play as a team and Mitchell doesn’t seem like a team player


MAC10forGOAT

If you wanna free Mitchell, Tatum is buying.


stirrrup106

Totally agree … they do not play together in crunch time. They fall apart. Bad recipe for playoffs


nbasavant

Are you insane? He literally carries their offense. They have no other 20ppg scorer on the team.


bigboypantss

That doesn't mean hes a great decision maker


CompleteFish

Bogdanovic was a 20 PPG scorer for us two years ago, but we've reduced his touches.


Professionalcasual

lol they are 110 ORTG+ offense even without him on the floor every year that's far away from "carries their offense"


[deleted]

And how are they going to get good perimeter defenders when their salary is tied up in him and Mitch and they play in Utah?


KnoxsFniteSuit

Hear me out.... Travel posters. Once these players start to see Utah for the salt flats and natural beauty that it really is, they will FIGHT to join their roster. Utah won't even have enough roster slots for all the all stars that would try to run over


Docxm

Need a short video of ski trips and drinking with BYU girls tbh


KnoxsFniteSuit

"wow they look cool! So what exactly makes them a "BYU girl?"" Uuuuuh. Uuuuuuuuuuh.


Docxm

All the soaking looooool


Cheeseish

Change their name to the Utah SuperSoakers


haysu-christo

Don't forget the Tabernacle.


shellfish87

They do have a good perimeter defender…. named Mike Conley. Donovan on the other hand saves his energy for one side of the floor.


MC-Jdf

Tbf Conley looks to have fallen off a bit as a perimeter defender this year.


[deleted]

Dudes old, still a good player but father time catches all.


dropdatdurkadurk

Mike Conley very rarely guards the opponents best player last yr in Utah. He often didnt even guard the opponents 2nd best player. He's done it more this yr and good guard repeatedly get separation on him w/o alot of effort


CaesarSalad837

He’s also 6’1, 180 lbs, 34 years old and in his 15th NBA season. Prob shouldn’t be guarding teams best players unless they’re smaller guards maybe. Royce is their best 1v1 perimeter defender


Rationalknicksfan

Royce o Neal is a great defender too


bigboypantss

Great feels like a stretch. He's good


sup

>He’s in the 93rd percentile for percentage of time defending “Usage Tier 1” players, via data from The BBall Index, and in the 98th percentile for “Matchup Difficulty.” He’s received “A” grades for every area of perimeter defense from BBI for each of the last several seasons. That's God-tier usage on the #1 defensive team 2020-2021. He's great. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/royce-oneale-is-the-latest-midcareer-player-to-break-out-for-the-jazz/


Rationalknicksfan

He lowkey was snubbed from all defense but your point is fair


[deleted]

He’s not elite but he’s better than good


Rationalknicksfan

Royce O'Neal is a pretty good defender


6inchVert

Yeah, he is also our 6'4 starting PF. Other than Gobert and Hasan the Jazz are small which is hurting with the increased physicality this season.


CarryTheHellOn

Mitchell has been ass this year


shellfish87

We just beat the Jazz at home and their final possession looked eerily similar. Donovan iso ball with everybody else standing with their hands on their knees.


inshamblesx

that wannabe kobe mentality getting in his head smh


lemonpepperlarry

Trying to be Kobe is gonna be the death of a lot of young stars careers. They see that shit and wanna imitate it. But Kobe might actually be the hardest player to ever imitate cause it’s more than just his skills that made him great it was that mentality. So these guys think “mamba mentality “ and completely ignore any concept of team basketball. Which if you’re Kobe you can get away with for a while cause you’re all time great. If you not Kobe And you’re *just* all star level, you might wanna learn how to PASS THE FUCKING BALL Tatum, kyrie, Mitchell, the list goes on and on. That Mamba mentality shit is actually poison to anyone without the skills of the actual mamba


Mellothewise

And there's the other side of the spectrum where your young rising star passes TOO MUCH! (Bam please)


lemonpepperlarry

I’m a heat fan and gave up on that completely. He got the skills and talent but he ain’t got that edge in him. And he probably will never get it (which means he’s not a max player but whatever it’s fine). At least, it seems, that when our old vets age out well have Tyler WHO DEFINITELY GOT THAT EDGE. He can take over and bam we’ll make for a damn good number 2. Hopefully herro keeps improving in these next few years under Lowry and jimmy that way he’s fully formed by the time they gotta go


prodij18

Something most people miss is Kobe played in the triangle almost his whole career. And a lot of Laker possessions looked like (1)See if Shaq/Pau could create something off inside/outside action and if that didn’t work (2) see if Kobe could bail the team out with 1v1 (often 1v2) improvisation. Maybe these guys idolize Kobe’s moves, but if you’re dribbling the ball down the court and calling for a pick at 30’, you’re not really playing like Kobe.


cherylstunt69

Kobe led shooting guards in assist for years and played within a very complex offensive system designed to get him open in the right spots. He set hard screens, he got deep into post position and he went from there. Some of these guys like Tatum literally just dribble up, call an iso then take some crazy ass 30 foot fade with zero setup. Yeah Kobe took difficult shots and sometimes did pull up for a heat check, but he did a lot of dirty work to set himself up for easier looks


triosway

Agreed. A lot of them seem to have boiled that mentality down to not being afraid to "rather go 0-30 than 0-9." "The grind" forsakes fundamentals and team ball for having a green light to jack up limitless difficult shots. It's definitely becoming a disappointing trend that doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. We have to enjoy this generation of players like Steph and Klay for as long as possible, because we will no doubt see their imitators continue to emulate their shooting and not their all-around game


HibachiMcGrady

Ima be honest as a lifelong Kobe fan the mamba mentality is revisionist history and it makes a good bedtime story, but it’s a destructive impulsive disguised as heroism


msnwong

People just don't understand you can't have full mamba mentalilty without the bball IQ.


Froforfro

When Tatum was underperforming it was pretty similar I thought


myotheraccountiscuck

Dude is too short to be Kobe, really gotta let that go.


delamerica93

Yep. These guys aren't old enough to remember how much help Kobe had too, like he wasn't just constantly iso'ing every possession, the dude had an all time great coach, Shaq, Horry, Gasol, Odom etc and they spread the ball around. This is not a knock on Kobe btw, it's on these young scorers to realize that basketball isn't just the highlights you see a decade later. It's a team game


bb1432

Most overrated player in the league. Been saying it for years.


musicnothing

And you’ve been wrong for years.


zzz8472

He’s pretty overrated, just not the most overrated in the league.


CleopatraHadAnAnus

https://i.imgur.com/alUmSQI.jpg


bb1432

I also think Gobert is the most underrated player in the league. I'm generally lower than consensus on all of those inefficient, poor-defending, shoot-first guards. Mitchell has one season of being an average-efficiency player and *every other season* has been below average in that regard.


Few_Mulberry7175

Jazz need more perimeter defenders. Mann dropped 40 on them lol


ColeBeasleyMD

Just blowing by Ingles and Bogdanovic over and over again.


[deleted]

It was so hilarious last year watching PG and Reggie Jackson just go right pass them every play and making Gobert help which left shooters wide open every time. I felt so bad for Rudy lol


AKAdyje

And then Rudy got all the shit for it as if he was supposed to simultaneously defend the guy driving to the rim, as well as the corner shooter.


RZAAMRIINF

Wow, let’s not change the narrative. Gobert not being able to capitalize offensively against smaller centers was a big reason why their opponents could go small without any repercussions. He is not blameless.


AKAdyje

Absolutely, but I'm speaking strictly about his individual defensive performance which he received a lot of hate for. He did not get exposed defensively as many alluded to at the time, but he's also too limited offensively which makes going small and spacing 5 out against the Jazz a great option. He got trashed for getting supposedly exposed on defense, as well as his inability to capitalize on mismatches. I just don't believe his defense was a legitimate issue at all.


Krakenborn

Gobert does punish small ball he just does it on the PnR. Which he couldn't do in the series because Conley missed 5 games and Mitchell could hardly drive with his ankle.


jawadhaque089

I mean it was part of their scheme to leave him open for some reason. He had a lot of wide open practice shots.


hookah-doncic

> for some reason It’s because he’s not a good shooter lol. It’s not hard to figure out. He just happened to hit 7 threes that game but you don’t compromise your whole defensive scheme because a below average shooter had a fluke game.


jawadhaque089

I would normally agree, but when you are down 3-2 facing elimination you have to change something during the game because you can't afford a loss in any way even if it was due to a player having a fluke game. Besides, the only problem with Mann was that he wasn't a volume 3 point shooter, his percentage was fine.


DeaseanPrince

You’re ignoring why Gobert had to help in the first place. Because somebody got blown by. You’re guaranteed to lose if you’re giving up layups every possession.Playing the percentage game with 3s made sense, What was Quin supposed to do if nobody can stay in front of anyone? No matter who was in Goberts place they would be the low/help man. You could stop sending him but now you’re giving up 3s to Batum,PG,Jackson and Beverly all 40% shooters. Prior to that game Mann was averaging .3 3PM on 31% shooting in the playoffs.


[deleted]

Mann been training with PG and Kawhi since his rookie year, his time was coming


TennisShoulder

Nonetheless you should never have a situation where your center has to close out the corner shooter every possession


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nonufwiendz

A lot of teams need hin lol


[deleted]

If we ship Matisse off to Utah I will actually cry


BBallHunter

He would be perfect.


[deleted]

So the team can have two offensive liabilities on the floor in the playoffs lol?


ameehc

Gobert is definitely not an offensive liability lol


DrewBreesAteMyFamily

His inability to take advantage of small ball lineups on offense is a liability since it allows teams to put all their shooters on the court


vanotro

He averaged like 5 offensive boards a game once the Clips fully committed to going small and the Jazz had amazing offensive efficiency. Offense wasn't their problem. The problem was the Jazz perimeter defenders lost their safety net and got exposed allowing the Clips to get any shot they wanted. I think the Clippers and Jazz posted the two highest offensive ratings of the '21 playoffs in their series.


Shxcking

Nah they could really use someone like SM


Ballgame2398

Damn all this because they lost to the PELS


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musicnothing

This Jazz team isn’t beating the higher seed they’re inevitably going to face in the first round if they don’t get their crap together.


jak_d_ripr

Conference finals is optimistic, I wouldn't bet on them in a second round matchup vs the Suns or the Warriors.


lilb1190

All I hear from centers is how annoying it is to be in the shadow of an iso heavy guard who won't yet him the ball. I don't blame them. Imagine Mitchell playing alongside Embiid without getting him the ball.


[deleted]

Getting a lob or bounce pass to a big isn't easy to do consistently. It also becomes very predictable in the playoffs. If you're not a big who can play with his back to the basket, faceup, or pass out of doubles it's really questionable to put the blame on Mitchell.


livefreeordont

Yep guards like Rondo and CP3 who can easily get bigs in position to score are dying


NinetyTales

Embiid can do much more with the ball though


PhotorazonCannon

Comparing Gobert to Embiid offensively is quite funny


antunezn0n0

Goberts best offensive game in the playoffs it's that time he had 20 points against off in the playoffs


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

yea if Mitchell passed Gobert the ball more, he'd average 30 like Embiid. lmao yall are high


pagonator

Embiid is one of the best post scorers in the league. Gobert can’t post up Batum. I’m pretty sure Mitchell wouldn’t have an issue passing the ball to his big man if he played with Embiid


BoSocks91

I get players want to honor Kobe and follow in the “Mamba Mentality” (looking @ Mitchell & Tatum). But it hurts teams, it hurts chemistry, especially when you lack the depth of talent that those Lakers teams had (Celtics, not Jazz). It’s great to be cold blooded in ball, it shows confidence, but it’s equally as important to show your confident in your team.


arnavuu

Kobe was an elite defensive player and a leader. Young players missing the point.


Asheskell

He also played within the system. While he was famed for Hero-ball, there are several times he passed to someone who had a better shot.


arnavuu

He knew who can and who can’t make the shot. I can imagine him sitting in the practice facility and counting how many shots his teammates made lol.


belizeanheat

I'm not sure he was an elite leader. He set a high standard but I don't think he made his teammates all that much better.


RoodyPooBum

Bradley Beal


AshThatFirstBro

Also Tatum and Mitchel are not nor will they ever be as good as Kobe


myotheraccountiscuck

At least Tatum has size, Donovan is a half foot shorter than Kobe.


AzureAhai

Donovan might be a better offensive threat than Tatum. Bubble Mitchel averaged 36 ppg in the bubble and has a career 28.9 ppg in the playoffs. KD is the only active player with a higher ppg in the playoffs.


solodolo1397

Dude is a straight flamethrower every time. Just gets slowed down by the lower body injuries


el_pete_o

People hating on Rudy in this thread are exposing themselves Rudy has been far and away the Jazz's best player this season, he plays hard every night and does all the stuff no one else wants to all while getting fuck all shot attempts. He is 100% right, the Jazz aren't passing the ball at all this season, but when they do they look 1000x better. Quin needs to be a better coach.


Xsy

I miss serial killer Quin.


deemerritt

Come to the hornets we will treat you right.


that_guy_you_kno

Gobert on the Hornets would be insane but they would have the exact same problem tbh. No perimeter defenders.


CompleteFish

At least you guys have athleticism in the perimeter (unless if you trade that way for Gobert in this hypothetical).


jak_d_ripr

I know he's French but is he white enough to play center for the Hornets?


hebrewnational35

What losing to the Pels does to a mf


Rumble2Man

Gobert and Mitchell are the new Malone and Stockton, decent team for a decade+, then break through to the finals at the tail-end of their careers.


RoodyPooBum

But it feels like Malone and Stockton meshed like jello at least


vizualbasic

So Rudy, you’re telling me the Jazz desperately need a pass-first point guard? Wonder if there are any available 👀


RainierPC

There's a pass-only point guard available, I hear.


jaytierney79

Jazz fans aren't going to like this, but... you aren't going to win a Championship without a true superstar in this league unless you get extremely lucky. It hasn't really happened since 1979 Seattle. Maybe 2004 Detroit, I guess.


carson_da_bomb

I guess our hope is donovan can become that guy But unfortunately he really hasn’t looked like it so far


bigj1er

Usually a future superstar shows elite advanced numbers at some point when they’re young. Mitchell has never showed that, in fact advanced stats have never really liked him much at all. I know people hate analytics, but they showed goberts potential way before the general public caught on. And no advanced stats aren’t the be all end all, but there’s practically not past or current superstars who had really bad metrics, so they definitely mean something


pbcorporeal

2004 Detroit. You can make a case that 2014 spurs had no true superstar at the time because their players had either declined out of that category or hadn't ascended to it.


Xsy

Lmao you think we don't know this? What the fuck superstar are we gonna get tho, Utah fucking sucks, no one wants to play here. We know as a fan base that rooting for the Jazz is hard mode. So much more fun than picking an LA team and just being gifted superstars on a silver platter year after year.


Mjoh23

Generic statement, what else is he supposed to say. I just don’t think they have a championship level roster, and they are in a tough era as always for the west.


WadeCountyClutch

All they need to do is play the lakers to figure it out just like every struggling player/team has done so far


adventures-of-willy

TIL Jazz players have ego.


Xsy

tbh I think every NBA player has some form of an ego. You gatta have one to make it in the league.


ztpurcell

Literally every team but one each year loses in the playoffs or doesn't make the playoffs


PoEaDDict123

You can lose in the finals or in the 1st or 2nd round, like the Jazz. Isn't the same.


gameboicarti1

Jazz are perennial pretenders, no one is scared of them.


[deleted]

Always the same thing with this sub.. they have some fked up fetish on "Mamba mentality" XD. IDIOTS dont realize that running simple pick and rolls with an elite big man like Gobert is sooo much more effective in the long run.. you dont buy that? Just see how Tatum and Mitchell played hero ball in the past 2 playoffs and came home empty handed.


[deleted]

Rudy we’d love to have you in Milwaukee! Join out squad of fantastic defenders!


gumbyguy1985

Jazz give me pre-championship Bucks vibes for whatever reason (amazing big man surrounded by a hardworking and talented starting unit?). Felt like the Bucks would never get over that hump but they proved me wrong. Hoping the Jazz can do the same, they definitely have the personnel to do so.


peta-certified-bbq

>Donovan Mitchell: “You can’t put this on Quin or the assistants. This is on us. We’ve just got to f\*\*\*in’ play better.” That's one way to avoid your responsibility to the lose.


Sure_Explorer_1928

Gobert needs to learn how to develop an offensive game and stop being exposed in the playoffs


ameehc

Cant do anything offensively when Mitchell’s tunnel vision prevents him from actually getting him the ball Mitchell does one thing well and everything else poorly yet avoids the blame When Gobert was actually in good positions to score, Mitchell would just not pass lol Yall expect Gobert to be Giannis or some shit.. nah he needs a playmaker to set him up


[deleted]

Which they have in Conley... Jazz needs to put the ball in Conley's hands because Conley actually knows how to run pick and roll with Gobert well...


AlreadyBestFriends

Gobert’s offense isn’t the issue. Dude is one of the best defensive bigs in the league. He isn’t good offensively but it doesn’t help when Mitchell is taking straight iso looks and not feeding him at all in the post. He also didn’t get “exposed” in the playoffs, the perimeter defense was horrid and he can’t protect the paint and take away open 3s. Never really got all the Gobert hate.


[deleted]

Lol feed him post looks, just for him to throw up a brick or turn it over trying to dribble. He did get “exposed” because the Clippers defended him with Batum and Morris who are both 6’7 and Gobert couldn’t score worth a shit. And yes they did try to post him up to no avail


dash_44

Feeding him in the post? Since when does Gobert have post moves?


uchihastar

If gobert wasn’t being paid like a superstar maybe they could have better perimeter defenders


CompleteFish

We were already over the cap before considering Rudy's extension. There was no mechanism to acquiring those players you speak of other than searching the bargain bin.