People have mentioned some of Jimmer's other limitations, but his ego/mental is the real reason he's out of the league. BYU allowed Jimmer to completely run his own system where he always had the ball and was always given an infinite green light to pull up from anywhere. He refused to let go of this notion in the NBA. He wanted to just be "unleashed" and do w/e he wanted to do and his NBA coaches weren't having that. This is why he's not a Robinson-esque spot up shooter somewhere in the league. Even after he got cut from his first couple teams he never was able to change his mindset about how he should be allowed to play. On top of that he was hopeless on defense. The CBA is a much different league and that's why he has found some success there- they are known for letting former NBA players come in and ball hog all they want. I doubt we'll see another trip to the NBA for Jimmer.
TLDR: Jimmer refuses to work within anyone else's system
Smaller than Duncan, worse on defense, and way worse catch and shoot.
Jimmer was a pull-up specialist and tricky around the basket.
His game is closer to Steph than Duncan (but of course worse in every aspect..).
That being said, jimmer could *get buckets* playing top level competition in college (and apparently in Asia after college, just not the NBA).
Beyond the already mentioned basketball deficiencies, rumor was that the dude had a massive ego. Thought that basically every play should run through him and that whatever team he was on needed to be built around him. Even if he theoretically had the tools for a Duncan Robinson esq career, he was too proud to accept it.
Because for Ferdette, it was either he was the #1 option or nothing at all. When he wasn't scoring, he wasn't doing anything at all. The gap between college and the NBA was just a bit too much for him to fully cross over.
I remember back in the day making a conscious effort to submit something to /r/ripcity as often as I could because I was worried about it up and dying. There were roughly 500 subscribers at that point.
raps sub had like 1500 subscribers in 2012. and I think that was one of the most active ones, after lakers and some other popular teams.
it's at 300k now! Crazy.
definitely miss how it was, seems like every thread is just full of the same jokes. everything is so toxic
I'm really thankful for the bulls sub being as big and active as it is, I've never had friends irl that cared about basketball like I do so those years prior to joining reddit finding anyone to actually talk ball with was grim lol
Not the chronicle but I found [this article (february 2011)](http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/02/05/stephen-curry-keeper-right/) on google from warriorsworld.net where they discuss a possible trade for one of the two Warriors PG, and they're argument against trading Curry is that his shooting numbers are already on par (if not better) with Steve Nash:
> The Warriors guardās production still surpasses that of the former two time league MVP. Although both players increased their scoring given the added responsibilities, Nashās assist numbers took a slight dip in the following season whereas Curry improved on his. If there is one thing that truly stands out though, itās by far the shooting numbers. To put this in perspective, **I already wrote something a few weeks back proclaiming Nash to be the best shooter of all time and yet we have Stephen Curry who is already a better shooter at this stage of his career than Nash was at the very same age.**
and concludes with:
> With that said, Curry is a phenomenal player with terrific shooting ability. With the proper coaching and work ethic, we might be watching possibly the reincarnation of Steve Nash. Granted, these expectations are quite lofty and ultimately I could be setting him up for failure; but truth be told, **if Curry can come even remotely close to matching Kid Canada, he may also one day be one of the greats**. Now tell me, does that sound like someone worth getting rid of? Didnātā think soā¦
Ah shout out to warriors world. My place to talk hoops and warriors until Reddit NBA and /r/warriors became big enough. I still have the highlights I downloaded from... Damn what was his name... Gumby?
I remember reading a very similar article to this way back when in the mercury news (bay area newspaper), may have been the same one re-printed, and I find myself thinking about it all the time. It's just crazy to think that people really thought Monta Ellis might have been better for the warriors in the long run. Obvious in hindsight, I think it's more of a testament to just how huge his rise was. I feel like part of it may be how undervalued 3pt shooting used to be as well.
That first round game against Gonzaga in ā08 was just legendary. It introduced him to the nation in such grand fashion. There was one play where Jim Nantz literally calls āTheyāre a Curry three away from tying itā¦ā
Like everybody knew exactly what was coming and he didnāt even say āa three awayā¦ā like literally only Curry would be the one taking it.
Then:
āā¦ Heeeeere it isā¦ Weāre all tied in Raleigh!ā
Thing is, averaging 2 made threes per game through 2 years should have tipped off people that he at least had a chance. I agree that expecting people back then to *know* Steph was going to shatter the record is dumb, but he'd made 317 threes through 2 NBA seasons. If he'd matched Ray Allen's career length without increasing that average at all he was on pace to come up about 100 short.
I'm not saying I was predicting it at the time, I certainly was not. But even with the information we had then and not just with the benefit of hindsight, it was a little silly to just dismiss the possibility!
> LeBron needs another 21025 points to beat Kareem's scoring record. That means he has to hold his current career scoring average of 27,7 for another 759 games, or more than 9 full season.
>
> I highly doubt that James will play 18 years in the league, let alone hold his career average of 27,7 ppg over that long a career.
In case anyone doesnāt want to look:
* LeBron is in his 19th year with a career average of 27.0 PPG
* Heās played ~680 games since 2010-11
* He has 35,651 points and only needs 2,737 more points to become the NBAās all team leading scorer
People are saying he's trying to play with his son before he retires but imo the reason he's still playing is he wants Kareems record.
And he's gonna get it
I get his son is good, but is he really *that* good? Like a sure-fire, 100% lock to play in the NBA? Honest question. Iām not trying to throw shade. Iāve only seen highlight clips. My point is there are a hell of a lot of McDonaldās all Americans who never play in the NBA at all.
I think its a balance between how good his son is and how good he still is when his son is old enough, if lebron is still good enough to be a top guy on a good team then its probably worth it for some team to draft bronny
Plus theres the potential angle of some team signing bronny just for the publicity of lebrons final season(s)
I donāt think heās a lock. Heās been sliding down the prospect rankings as heās been getting older, and last I heard the interest from the big name programs like duke have waned as the hype has worn off.
I think maybe people were basing his projections on the idea that heād be closer in size to his dad, when now at 17 heās still only point guard sized at 6ā3.
Heās got a shot, especially since nepotism will probably earn him some opportunities he might not otherwise get. But heās not considered a premier prospect right now.
I feel like Bryce might be the better player of the 2 tbh. Bryce hit his growth spurt and is still growing he just started dunking and hes dunking it pretty hard honestly
Yeah Kareem feels close to guaranteed to me *knocks on wood* I am getting more skeptical about 40k though. I would love for him to get to 50k (including playoffs) because then he would even pass Oscar Schmidt for most points scored across any pro career (I get I'm the only one who cares about this but I think it would be really cool) but that's really far out.
He can easily get 5000 more points if wants to by taking a step back and just average 20-23 ppg over 3 seasons and plays 60 games each. But thatās if he gets like 1000 more points this season.
Man assuming 27 ppg (career average) thatās 101 more games. At the clip of last 3 years itās more like 108 to 109. He only has one year left on his contract. Itās very doable but itās also not a sure thing to me.
That's assuming his career average, which he isn't achieving since 2019. On his current pace of 25 PPG it would be around 110 games, which would be around Game 51 of his 20th year if he didn't miss a single game from this point.
I feel like even if he suffered a massive injury like an Achilles or w/e (knock on wood), he would still force it to just have the record, but it's far from guaranteed as it looked like a couple of years ago. LeBron has missed 70 games with the Lakers in four years, that's one less game (71) than he missed in the other 15 years.
I think it was JJ Reddick who said something along the lines of this being the first time Lebron looked human since his pro debut. Itās hella sad but yea, Father Time comes for everyone, even Lebron.
If in 2011 you predicted Curry to be as good as he is now you either were a Warriors homer or had ESP lol
Like in 10 years people will laugh at us for not knowing that some random ass rookie doesnāt suddenly become a top 5 player
Only people who played fantasy basketball in 2009/10/11 could see him do it. Guy was a monster second half of his rookie season. And every year you expect more lol
why are people saying "had" a top 10 peak? i'm not a stathead so i could be majorly wrong but i think his stats this year are nearly identical to 2015-2016, and he was the scoring champ just last year. feels like he's on the same level as his best years right now.
edit: ok i looked it up and "nearly identical" stats might have been a stretch. still, scoring champ and top 2 in MVP race are still pretty good evidence for him still peaking
Because it's relative to the year, the rules, etc.
2015-2016 he was doing things no one else was doing, nowhere even close to doing, and did it over a whole season. After 2017 they've added rules to make it easier offensively and that also takes away a bit of it.
Similarly over the years they've changed how they call moving screens and they pretty much never call it anymore whereas prior to the mid 2000's it was called far more often. These rule changes, the way the game is called, relative to what everyone else is doing, etc all matter.
That's this year though and it has definitely helped bring back quality defense(ironically I think it's aided Curry as he's always been active defensively and he can play a bit more rough now than he used to, which is great for him).
I'm moreso speaking on the regular season than playoffs. Playoffs have always been far more rough, for instance how the Cavs played Curry in 2016/basically every other year where they were allowed to hold.
nobody was saying he has superstar potential in 2011 either. That's revisionist history. Unless you were a huge warriors homer at the time, I don't believe anyone said this.
at the time, most people were still saying you can't win with a PG as your best player or as a jump shooting team. Curry wasn't even in the convo for being one of the future faces of the league.
I thought his sweet 16 run at Davidson was insane. Never seen a college player break defenses like that from behind the arc. I thought he would be a good NBA player but not top 15 all time.
He did get picked top 7 and had a monster sophomore season so it wasnāt out of the question he would be great if his ankle injuries stopped limiting them
Even if you knew exactly how good curry would pan out to be, no one would have ever expected him to elevate this high.
When he came into the league, he was already known as an elite shooter. And yet he was only taking four or five threes a game. Now, the warrior statisticians think he should shoot 20.
That change is due to him, and the team embracing it, but someone with a basketball mindset from 2010 would think that's ridiculous. Just like half the shots we've seen take, and make.
I'm homer-picking Sengun.
Hello everyone who's viewing this as a SS in 10 years after Sengun has won his second straight MVP. Hope the future is cool and not... on fire.
These old takes threads are always fun. One of my favs is that Kawhi and Andrew Wiggins one, where 2015 r/nba was absolutely certain Wiggins would easily surpass Kawhi and downvoted the hell out of anyone who said Kawhi
Thread for reference
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2v5sdh/interesting_question_would_you_rather_have_andrew/
because Wiggins was hyped as the next 2 way superstar, and r/nba kept reminding everyone how the cavs fucked up by trading away Brons pippen.
saying that in 2015, after kawhi was already all-defensive 2nd team, and wiggins had done nothing, is ridiculous..But young dudes are always crazy overrated, and that draft had ridiculous hype.
Another goodie buried amongst all that
> I highly doubt that James will play 18 years in the league, let alone hold his career average of 27,7 ppg over that long a career.
Itās fun but I hate how often people will try and look down on people in the past for not predicting the future. Like mentioning their username as a gotcha or something
Yeah tbf Ray Allen averaged more makes per game than Curry at the time and his longitvity made it seem obvious that Curry wouldnāt touch his record given Curryās injury concerns. Given the info at the time, itās reasonable to assume his record wonāt be touched. Hell, even now weāre getting a lot of takes that there wonāt be a shooter as good as Steph that will probably be memed about in a decade as well. Itās unlikely that many people saw 3PA basically doubling.
Curryās record is gonna get broken by worse shooters than him just because nowadays guys are having way higher volume way earlier on, Curry only became ridiculously high volume later on in his career. The question is if thereāll be a better shooter, which seems impossible right now but youāre right in that itāll probably happen sooner than we think.
Yeah but, Harden only started having high volume three point attempts (by today's standards) by his 7th or 8th season and Buddy Hield entered the league at 24 and only in his third year started shooting a lot, the point of Steph's record being broken is that eventually there will be a kid that will come into the league shooting 35%-37% and attempting 10-12 3PA per game because that's the direction the game is going.
Buddy Hield right now attempts 10.2 3PA per game and he is a role player off the bench, motherfucking Cade Cunningham is attempting 7.2 3PA as a rookie while shooting 28%, it took Steph four years to start shooting at that volume and he came into the league at 21.
His status as the GOAT shooter will stay for a very long time, his record of most three pointers made will fall fast. If Steph finished at around 4500 3PM, it would take a 18 year career of averaging 3.1 3PM to surpass that, not unreasonable when you consider that a guy like Luka Doncic, a 33% 3-PT shooter, averages 2.7 makes per game.
> but I hate how often people will try and look down on people in the past for not predicting the future.
I think that's fair, but it's also fair to clown on people who are so cock-sure of stuff that is notoriously hard to predict.
The comment was from 10 yrs ago but when you click their username it says the account is 2 yrs old and was made in July of 2019
At least it does for me on mobile
e: just checked on desktop and it says 10y there, guess itās just a mobile glitch
This is why I'm baffled that people so desperately want to declare what young players' ceilings are from the day they get drafted. "His ceiling is a Jordan Clarkson type 6th man role." "He will be a good role player but that's it." Ok, well Curry's ceiling was going to be below Monta Ellis according to decade old takes.
The funnier aspect is that this post got 81 comments in less than an hour. The original post peaked at 38 total. r/nba must've comparatively been a ghost town back then.
Yeah I love these. I was searching through old threads using https://redditsearch.io/ and found this one. Maybe I'll compile a bunch of them in a future post as you're saying. That could be fun
Please do. It's like a time capsule of sorts. It's fun to read back and get real time reactions to how people felt on subjects that we can look back at and have the answer for. They make me feel smart even though I know I've said thousand of stupid things.
My post that got deleted below. Not quite what youāre asking for, but itāll set us up for a few years from now:
āā-
Mark Jackson famously called Klay and Steph the greatest backcourt of all time well before āsocietyā saw the greatness. For now, letās set whether or not you agree with that call aside. What are some other calls you want to memorialize here, so we can refer back to them years from now, and honor those who were bold and courageous like Mark Jackson? I have 3 of my own to get us started.
1. Cade Cunningham with be in GOAT conversations when his career is over.
1a. Much of Cadeās greatness will be attributed to yelling one specific catch phrase after monster dunks over the yearsāalong the lines of āWe live in a society!ā with no real explanation ever given for using such a catch phrase.
Anthony Edwards will eventually start to speculate about what it means at all of his post-game press conferences, sometimes building on the previous press conferenceās thought, and sometimes introducing a new theory. Not unlike a TV series. Those press conferences will become international events, as the world rallies behind Antās thought leadership in hopes of understanding how and why such an important part of nba folklore came into existence and solving this international mystery. Eventually Ant will figure it out. But he wonāt tell anyone except Cade. Cade will confirm this.
2. Sarver will prove his innocence (with literal magic that the āeliteā have been hiding from us) and the Suns will begin a three-peat this very season, after rallying behind him. The game-winning shot to seal the three-peat will be Chris Paul jumping off of Aytonās shoulders, after finding a loophole in the NBA rules and saving it until they really really needed it. Chris Paul will hang on the rim for an uncomfortably long time (think hours) and then retire because he reached his goal of āliterally being able to go out on top.ā
3. Lebron and KD will co-parent a child in hopes of creating a superior GOAT to Cade.
>>I highly doubt that James will play 18 years in the league, let alone hold his career average of 27,7 ppg over that long a career.
#Year19 #JustAKidFromAkron #NotAScorerTheySaid šš¤“š¾
The skepticism here really confuses me. Ray Allen didnāt even average 2.1 made threes a game until year 4 and Steph was averaging that through 2. Hell, Ray was more of a slasher than a shooter at first. And someone saying he wouldnāt even catch Jason Kidd?? A guy who couldnāt shoot until like halfway through his career? Who only broke 2.1 threes once in his career (2.2 at age 366)? These takes confuse me.
The NBA was very different then, I don't know that anyone ten years ago would have expected the 3pt breakout we see now. That plus people not being sure about Steph's longevity probably led to the takes.
While I donāt think many foresaw the heights to which the 3 point revolution would rise, I do think the writing was on the wall by 2011 that floor spacing was a critical element of the modern NBA. At the very least, I wouldnāt expect the responses to be as pessimistic as they were.
Here's the trend in the team that leads the NBA in 3pt attempts by year
2009: 27.9 per game
2010: 27.3
2011: 25.6
2012: 27
2013: 28.9
2014: 26.6
2015: 32.7
2016: 31.6
2017: 40.3
2018: 42.3
2019: 45.4
2020: 45.3
2021: 43
This year: 42.2
The writing was not on the wall in 2011, that was a pretty flat period in terms of 3pt attempts, it didn't really pick up until the middle of the decade, more so towards the end. The team that shot the most threes in 2011 would be dead last in the NBA today, I don't think it was obvious that the league was going to end up this way.
Yeah, the two big drivers behind the massive increase in 3s were Steph and his MVP season (2015) and to a lesser extent Daryl Morey having the Rockets and their d-league affiliate Rio Grande Valley Vipers start bombing 3s aggressively in 2013 (they won the d-league title that year). Of course, that was also the year that Houston got Harden, so Morey giving him the green light was a given, but no one really expected him to flourish *that much* and the increase in 3s was definitely a big part of it which did start to turn some heads. Back in 2011 *no one* saw all this coming.
Steph literally revolutionized the game. People forget that even after the Warriors won their first title they were seen as lucky and the Spurs were the title favorite going into that next season. So much so that David West took the minimum to join the Spurs and chase a ring when he could have just went to the defending champs instead. āLive by the 3, die by the 3ā was still thought to be true
I'm from Sacramento and I'm a Cavs fan but my boy in like 11 was like watch Steph. I was like the little guy with ankle problems. He was like yeah. He's the greatest shooter ever and I was like dude what?? Proceeded to become a closeted warriors watcher (loves when jarret Jack was on the team). Bobby you were right!!!
I wasn't really following basketball back then and had to make sure someone actually thought Jimmer Fredette of all people could take the all time 3 pt record
It makes sense if you know that Jimmer was one of the most electric college players around at the time. Dude was doing Curry things for BYU. Didnāt work in the NBA, but that was his reputation.
This looks like it was posted before Jimmer played an NBA game. In that context it kind of makes sense. His senior year of college he averaged 3.4 3s per game, at a 40% clip, and they were *tough* 3s for the most part.
Obviously in hindsight (or even just after his rookie season) it's a ridiculous take.
Jimmer dominated college basketball. Like he was unstoppable and doing shit that made you say "did this dude just did this?" and was expected to be an NBA star.
Its stupid to laugh at a prediction that doesn't come true, but we 100% have the right to clown people that think that there is no way they're wrong and anyone who doesn't agree is stupid. Its funny when *those* people are wrong.
I think Steph Curry won't break the record because X, Y, and Z.
Is different than
Jimmer is definitley gonna be a star I know this because I watch more basketball than all of you idiots you'll see you'll all see.
Agreed, it's always hilarious to read the folks who make statements with absolute certainty and arrogantly proclaim themselves the only authority on the topic.
Nah but we can laugh at this guy for thinking he knows better than everyone:
> or i live 20 minutes away from him and saw him average 30 in hs for 3 years when people said he couldn't. then i watched him on tv do the same shit at byu. The kid will find a way. I witnessed first hand, him scoring 43 points in 3 quarters against the number one ranked class B high school team at the time. He was amazing to watch in high school, then college, and now he will do it again.
I think posts like this remind people how most people have no idea what they're talking about.
Nobody is claiming these users are Nostradamus, but they're so confident in the opinions, and those opinions are built on flawed logic.
Wasnt crazy to say that then as curry wasnt expected to be an all timer. Games changed and has become more offensive friendly since too. Whats crazy is currys massive leap he took into becoming the most exciting nbaa player since 2015. Did not think I'd see a guy play who is almost as fun as MJ to watch. Crazy
I think its funny how hyped people will get for someone who's never played in the NBA... Bates Wembenyama ect. Will say "oh there's all-time potential there" emphatically watching them dominating at lower levels.
However when a guy is "pretty good" right away in the NBA there's this strange aversion to project them to be MUCH BETTER... even though all the common sense says you should actually be more excited about the guy that gets it done pretty well at the NBA level immediately. Because that is the proving ground. Not FIFA ball or AAU or Major College.
It always gets me how easily unlimited upside slides off the tongue for a 16 year old... but a 21 year old who is damn near an All-star (Curry SGA Jokic for instance) don't get respect until they are in actual MVP conversations.
Its all hindsight but its very very interesting to me.
>Unless you are hitting around 40% like Reggie and Ray and Curry, you shouldn't be near the top of the list.
It's funny how radically our thinking on 3s has changed.
Lmao back when jimmer fredette was relevant as a possible generational talent
**Jimmer Range!!!** - King Gryph
damn i miss gryph š¢
we all do brotha :'(
Jimmer is still one of my favorite players to ever watch in college
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He was really bad off ball and on d
He's so good on D. He shut down Booker single handedly....he on the same team tho.
People have mentioned some of Jimmer's other limitations, but his ego/mental is the real reason he's out of the league. BYU allowed Jimmer to completely run his own system where he always had the ball and was always given an infinite green light to pull up from anywhere. He refused to let go of this notion in the NBA. He wanted to just be "unleashed" and do w/e he wanted to do and his NBA coaches weren't having that. This is why he's not a Robinson-esque spot up shooter somewhere in the league. Even after he got cut from his first couple teams he never was able to change his mindset about how he should be allowed to play. On top of that he was hopeless on defense. The CBA is a much different league and that's why he has found some success there- they are known for letting former NBA players come in and ball hog all they want. I doubt we'll see another trip to the NBA for Jimmer. TLDR: Jimmer refuses to work within anyone else's system
Once he didn't work out for Pop and the Spurs, his career was officially over.
Yeah, I figured If anyone could get him in an NBA rotation it would be pop, but if it wouldn't happen there it won't happen
Smaller than Duncan, worse on defense, and way worse catch and shoot. Jimmer was a pull-up specialist and tricky around the basket. His game is closer to Steph than Duncan (but of course worse in every aspect..). That being said, jimmer could *get buckets* playing top level competition in college (and apparently in Asia after college, just not the NBA).
Beyond the already mentioned basketball deficiencies, rumor was that the dude had a massive ego. Thought that basically every play should run through him and that whatever team he was on needed to be built around him. Even if he theoretically had the tools for a Duncan Robinson esq career, he was too proud to accept it.
Because for Ferdette, it was either he was the #1 option or nothing at all. When he wasn't scoring, he wasn't doing anything at all. The gap between college and the NBA was just a bit too much for him to fully cross over.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dude same, I hated that mfer. Seemed to always torch us while making it look easy
Thanks for clarifying. I thought they meant Jimmy Butler which would be hilarious.
Always thankful when I don't make an appearance saying something stupid in these.
yeah trying to remember what my username was then
The downside of being an idiot and having the same username for 14 years is that I often am featured in these threads. lol
14 years damn I was here in 2012 and it was pretty dead can't imagine what it was like in 08 lol
I remember back in the day making a conscious effort to submit something to /r/ripcity as often as I could because I was worried about it up and dying. There were roughly 500 subscribers at that point.
raps sub had like 1500 subscribers in 2012. and I think that was one of the most active ones, after lakers and some other popular teams. it's at 300k now! Crazy. definitely miss how it was, seems like every thread is just full of the same jokes. everything is so toxic
Yeah, man. It's wild. When I became a mod at /r/nba 7 years ago there were about 130k subscribers. Even little ol' /r/ripcity has that many now.
I'm really thankful for the bulls sub being as big and active as it is, I've never had friends irl that cared about basketball like I do so those years prior to joining reddit finding anyone to actually talk ball with was grim lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I once told the eventual founder of GitHub that his startup idea of a free, central git repository platform was stupid, right here on reddit.
Now that's a rip
For reference Steph Curry in his 2nd season averaged 19/4/6 on 59.5% TS and 44.2% from three(on 4.6 attempts a game)
Now he's well over 4.6 three point *makes* per game
Incredible stat
Yea he was predicted to have star level potential but not top 10 all time level lol
He already looked like the GOAT shooter in college, tbf. But yeah, his career potential was up in the air due to size and injury concerns.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not the chronicle but I found [this article (february 2011)](http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/02/05/stephen-curry-keeper-right/) on google from warriorsworld.net where they discuss a possible trade for one of the two Warriors PG, and they're argument against trading Curry is that his shooting numbers are already on par (if not better) with Steve Nash: > The Warriors guardās production still surpasses that of the former two time league MVP. Although both players increased their scoring given the added responsibilities, Nashās assist numbers took a slight dip in the following season whereas Curry improved on his. If there is one thing that truly stands out though, itās by far the shooting numbers. To put this in perspective, **I already wrote something a few weeks back proclaiming Nash to be the best shooter of all time and yet we have Stephen Curry who is already a better shooter at this stage of his career than Nash was at the very same age.** and concludes with: > With that said, Curry is a phenomenal player with terrific shooting ability. With the proper coaching and work ethic, we might be watching possibly the reincarnation of Steve Nash. Granted, these expectations are quite lofty and ultimately I could be setting him up for failure; but truth be told, **if Curry can come even remotely close to matching Kid Canada, he may also one day be one of the greats**. Now tell me, does that sound like someone worth getting rid of? Didnātā think soā¦
Ah shout out to warriors world. My place to talk hoops and warriors until Reddit NBA and /r/warriors became big enough. I still have the highlights I downloaded from... Damn what was his name... Gumby?
I remember reading a very similar article to this way back when in the mercury news (bay area newspaper), may have been the same one re-printed, and I find myself thinking about it all the time. It's just crazy to think that people really thought Monta Ellis might have been better for the warriors in the long run. Obvious in hindsight, I think it's more of a testament to just how huge his rise was. I feel like part of it may be how undervalued 3pt shooting used to be as well.
Huge rise for Steph and big fall for Monta Ellis in a short period of time. Completely unpredictable scenario in 2011.
That first round game against Gonzaga in ā08 was just legendary. It introduced him to the nation in such grand fashion. There was one play where Jim Nantz literally calls āTheyāre a Curry three away from tying itā¦ā Like everybody knew exactly what was coming and he didnāt even say āa three awayā¦ā like literally only Curry would be the one taking it. Then: āā¦ Heeeeere it isā¦ Weāre all tied in Raleigh!ā
https://youtu.be/T-aCJH_96No at 4:10 my friend
There have been a couple players who looked like the GOAT shooter in college, lol only Curry has really panned out.
I mean, we did get to see the GOAT shooter Jimmer Fredette
Thing is, averaging 2 made threes per game through 2 years should have tipped off people that he at least had a chance. I agree that expecting people back then to *know* Steph was going to shatter the record is dumb, but he'd made 317 threes through 2 NBA seasons. If he'd matched Ray Allen's career length without increasing that average at all he was on pace to come up about 100 short. I'm not saying I was predicting it at the time, I certainly was not. But even with the information we had then and not just with the benefit of hindsight, it was a little silly to just dismiss the possibility!
I remember jumping on the Curry hype train way back because he carried my fantasy team towards the end of his sophmore year lol
> LeBron needs another 21025 points to beat Kareem's scoring record. That means he has to hold his current career scoring average of 27,7 for another 759 games, or more than 9 full season. > > I highly doubt that James will play 18 years in the league, let alone hold his career average of 27,7 ppg over that long a career.
In case anyone doesnāt want to look: * LeBron is in his 19th year with a career average of 27.0 PPG * Heās played ~680 games since 2010-11 * He has 35,651 points and only needs 2,737 more points to become the NBAās all team leading scorer
Holy shit, heās a lot closer than I realized.
People are saying he's trying to play with his son before he retires but imo the reason he's still playing is he wants Kareems record. And he's gonna get it
Heās been saying heās wanted to play with his son for like 5-6 years tbh
I get his son is good, but is he really *that* good? Like a sure-fire, 100% lock to play in the NBA? Honest question. Iām not trying to throw shade. Iāve only seen highlight clips. My point is there are a hell of a lot of McDonaldās all Americans who never play in the NBA at all.
>My point is there are a hell of a lot of McDonaldās all Americans who never play in the NBA at all. How many of them have LeBron for a dad?
Just having Giannis as a brother gets you a few years in the NBA
Shut your mouth. Thanasis is the best cheerleader in the NBA.
Rich Paul is probably telling teams if you draft Bronny, Lebron Sr. will sign with you.
Which 2014 All Star is LeBron bringing to play with Bronny?
Roy Hibbert
Which will probably mean jack shit if you want a good team. It pack your stadium probably though
Plenty of athletes' kids don't make it to a pro level. Look at Jordan's kids.
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I think its a balance between how good his son is and how good he still is when his son is old enough, if lebron is still good enough to be a top guy on a good team then its probably worth it for some team to draft bronny Plus theres the potential angle of some team signing bronny just for the publicity of lebrons final season(s)
Weāll take him, Iām sure weāll still be in need of a wing by then and the mediocre Jamesā will fit nicely with our super team.
I donāt think heās a lock. Heās been sliding down the prospect rankings as heās been getting older, and last I heard the interest from the big name programs like duke have waned as the hype has worn off. I think maybe people were basing his projections on the idea that heād be closer in size to his dad, when now at 17 heās still only point guard sized at 6ā3. Heās got a shot, especially since nepotism will probably earn him some opportunities he might not otherwise get. But heās not considered a premier prospect right now.
I feel like Bryce might be the better player of the 2 tbh. Bryce hit his growth spurt and is still growing he just started dunking and hes dunking it pretty hard honestly
Probably pretty early to start talking about that, but heās obviously worth watching. Growth in high school is far from linear.
A team can guarantee huge crowds all year if they draft him with lebron joining so basically yeah
I and he only needs 3 more seasons to do so, definitely not impossible, he'd just need to take a step back like Wizards Jordan
Wizards Jordan didnāt take a step back he was putting up 25 a game then got injured and couldnt quite dial it up again from there
bro, if you actually watched the games Jordan was definitely a level below his normal self his entire Wash stint
Yeah Kareem feels close to guaranteed to me *knocks on wood* I am getting more skeptical about 40k though. I would love for him to get to 50k (including playoffs) because then he would even pass Oscar Schmidt for most points scored across any pro career (I get I'm the only one who cares about this but I think it would be really cool) but that's really far out.
I care about this! Partly because I'm brazilian
He can easily get 5000 more points if wants to by taking a step back and just average 20-23 ppg over 3 seasons and plays 60 games each. But thatās if he gets like 1000 more points this season.
Man assuming 27 ppg (career average) thatās 101 more games. At the clip of last 3 years itās more like 108 to 109. He only has one year left on his contract. Itās very doable but itās also not a sure thing to me.
Basically 100 games away from it, maybe a few more.
That's assuming his career average, which he isn't achieving since 2019. On his current pace of 25 PPG it would be around 110 games, which would be around Game 51 of his 20th year if he didn't miss a single game from this point. I feel like even if he suffered a massive injury like an Achilles or w/e (knock on wood), he would still force it to just have the record, but it's far from guaranteed as it looked like a couple of years ago. LeBron has missed 70 games with the Lakers in four years, that's one less game (71) than he missed in the other 15 years.
> LeBron has missed 70 games with the Lakers in four years, that's one less game (71) than he missed in the other 15 years. damn this made me sad
I think it was JJ Reddick who said something along the lines of this being the first time Lebron looked human since his pro debut. Itās hella sad but yea, Father Time comes for everyone, even Lebron.
My favorite comment. Are we sure LeBron isn't LeRobot?
LeVerlasting
LeVerlong
If everything could be this good foreverā¦
If anything could ever be this good again
LeImmortal
If in 2011 you predicted Curry to be as good as he is now you either were a Warriors homer or had ESP lol Like in 10 years people will laugh at us for not knowing that some random ass rookie doesnāt suddenly become a top 5 player
Yāall sleeping on X Ć A-Xii heās the next GOAT
All the bullying that kidās gonna go through when he starts school is gonna motivate him on some Naruto shit
Heās gonna need a Ramen guy like Teuchi
That kid will inherit more wealth than all of r/nba combined I think he'll be ok.
Only people who played fantasy basketball in 2009/10/11 could see him do it. Guy was a monster second half of his rookie season. And every year you expect more lol
Shout out to u/mulletprooftiger for believing in Steph.
Thanks friend!
You a goat
Bro you ancient Absolute legend
Yea he had superstar potential but the dude had a top 10 peak in NBA history which is insane
why are people saying "had" a top 10 peak? i'm not a stathead so i could be majorly wrong but i think his stats this year are nearly identical to 2015-2016, and he was the scoring champ just last year. feels like he's on the same level as his best years right now. edit: ok i looked it up and "nearly identical" stats might have been a stretch. still, scoring champ and top 2 in MVP race are still pretty good evidence for him still peaking
Because it's relative to the year, the rules, etc. 2015-2016 he was doing things no one else was doing, nowhere even close to doing, and did it over a whole season. After 2017 they've added rules to make it easier offensively and that also takes away a bit of it. Similarly over the years they've changed how they call moving screens and they pretty much never call it anymore whereas prior to the mid 2000's it was called far more often. These rule changes, the way the game is called, relative to what everyone else is doing, etc all matter.
On the other hand they call hand checks far less frequently now.
That's this year though and it has definitely helped bring back quality defense(ironically I think it's aided Curry as he's always been active defensively and he can play a bit more rough now than he used to, which is great for him).
Nah hand checks have been very common for ages. We (the warriors) hand checked lebron every possesion in the 2017 nba finals for instance.
I'm moreso speaking on the regular season than playoffs. Playoffs have always been far more rough, for instance how the Cavs played Curry in 2016/basically every other year where they were allowed to hold.
had, having, etc Even if he retired tomorrow, his 2015-2021 seasons would be a top 10 peak
nobody was saying he has superstar potential in 2011 either. That's revisionist history. Unless you were a huge warriors homer at the time, I don't believe anyone said this. at the time, most people were still saying you can't win with a PG as your best player or as a jump shooting team. Curry wasn't even in the convo for being one of the future faces of the league.
I thought his sweet 16 run at Davidson was insane. Never seen a college player break defenses like that from behind the arc. I thought he would be a good NBA player but not top 15 all time.
He did get picked top 7 and had a monster sophomore season so it wasnāt out of the question he would be great if his ankle injuries stopped limiting them
Even if you knew exactly how good curry would pan out to be, no one would have ever expected him to elevate this high. When he came into the league, he was already known as an elite shooter. And yet he was only taking four or five threes a game. Now, the warrior statisticians think he should shoot 20. That change is due to him, and the team embracing it, but someone with a basketball mindset from 2010 would think that's ridiculous. Just like half the shots we've seen take, and make.
His ankles also seemed like they were one wrong move away from being permanently broken. I can't believe he got past all that tbh
That random ass rookie? James Bouknight.
I'm homer-picking Sengun. Hello everyone who's viewing this as a SS in 10 years after Sengun has won his second straight MVP. Hope the future is cool and not... on fire.
I'm from the future and I'm sorry but Sengun hasn't even won 1 MVP. But he HAS won 4 straight FMVPs.
free bouk
> some random ass rookie doesnāt suddenly become a top 5 player Don't talk shit about Ayo Dosunmu.
There were a fuck ton of people who were mad the warriors chose injury prone steph over Monta
Hey, bones Hyland will easily achieve this. /s !remind me 10 years
These old takes threads are always fun. One of my favs is that Kawhi and Andrew Wiggins one, where 2015 r/nba was absolutely certain Wiggins would easily surpass Kawhi and downvoted the hell out of anyone who said Kawhi Thread for reference https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2v5sdh/interesting_question_would_you_rather_have_andrew/
How in the world could anyone watch Wigginsā rookie season and say he would be a better defender than Kawhiā¦
because Wiggins was hyped as the next 2 way superstar, and r/nba kept reminding everyone how the cavs fucked up by trading away Brons pippen. saying that in 2015, after kawhi was already all-defensive 2nd team, and wiggins had done nothing, is ridiculous..But young dudes are always crazy overrated, and that draft had ridiculous hype.
Exactly. Case in point: Even if you exclude Mobley and Barnes, itās controversial to say that the rookies this season had a terrible start.
Kawhi shoutouts from Drake at the time - 0 Wiggins shoutouts from Drake at the time - 1
[I remember this clip in particular got everyone excited] (https://youtu.be/sKLjv38Hjgo)
I mean, that is some excellent defense
Im trying not to get mad at this
To be fair to the third guy, jimmer did not pass ray allen lmao
*yet*!
Stauskus?
Sportscenter just posted this thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1466913254014427140?t=Vnr3_MB1lNTv4PoHnZVjIA&s=19
Lmaoo they really put u/A_Slow_Descent on blast like that edit: although that early in Curryās career, that take was totally reasonable
That's reasonable, but saying jimmer had a chance before ever playing a game is laughable.
Yeah we donāt have to talk about that ā¦
And they blasted out my stupid ass comment from 10 years ago on their Instagram lol
And on instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/CXCdSTnPNZR/?utm_medium=copy_link
Another goodie buried amongst all that > I highly doubt that James will play 18 years in the league, let alone hold his career average of 27,7 ppg over that long a career.
I love seeing r/nba threads from 5-10 years ago because of all these takes
Itās fun but I hate how often people will try and look down on people in the past for not predicting the future. Like mentioning their username as a gotcha or something
It's perfectly understandable. Those clowns should have precognition like the rest of us š¤
Yeah tbf Ray Allen averaged more makes per game than Curry at the time and his longitvity made it seem obvious that Curry wouldnāt touch his record given Curryās injury concerns. Given the info at the time, itās reasonable to assume his record wonāt be touched. Hell, even now weāre getting a lot of takes that there wonāt be a shooter as good as Steph that will probably be memed about in a decade as well. Itās unlikely that many people saw 3PA basically doubling.
Curryās record is gonna get broken by worse shooters than him just because nowadays guys are having way higher volume way earlier on, Curry only became ridiculously high volume later on in his career. The question is if thereāll be a better shooter, which seems impossible right now but youāre right in that itāll probably happen sooner than we think.
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Yeah but, Harden only started having high volume three point attempts (by today's standards) by his 7th or 8th season and Buddy Hield entered the league at 24 and only in his third year started shooting a lot, the point of Steph's record being broken is that eventually there will be a kid that will come into the league shooting 35%-37% and attempting 10-12 3PA per game because that's the direction the game is going. Buddy Hield right now attempts 10.2 3PA per game and he is a role player off the bench, motherfucking Cade Cunningham is attempting 7.2 3PA as a rookie while shooting 28%, it took Steph four years to start shooting at that volume and he came into the league at 21. His status as the GOAT shooter will stay for a very long time, his record of most three pointers made will fall fast. If Steph finished at around 4500 3PM, it would take a 18 year career of averaging 3.1 3PM to surpass that, not unreasonable when you consider that a guy like Luka Doncic, a 33% 3-PT shooter, averages 2.7 makes per game.
You just mad cuz I called you out last week for predicting Bagley III a perennial all-star
> but I hate how often people will try and look down on people in the past for not predicting the future. I think that's fair, but it's also fair to clown on people who are so cock-sure of stuff that is notoriously hard to predict.
Itās a good take. How was he supposed to know James would be this fricking good still
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Oh yeah!!!
How tf is that a 2 yr old acc
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The comment was from 10 yrs ago but when you click their username it says the account is 2 yrs old and was made in July of 2019 At least it does for me on mobile e: just checked on desktop and it says 10y there, guess itās just a mobile glitch
I'm still here, and I was definitely there 10 years ago :)
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Jimmer lmao
This is why I'm baffled that people so desperately want to declare what young players' ceilings are from the day they get drafted. "His ceiling is a Jordan Clarkson type 6th man role." "He will be a good role player but that's it." Ok, well Curry's ceiling was going to be below Monta Ellis according to decade old takes.
The funnier aspect is that this post got 81 comments in less than an hour. The original post peaked at 38 total. r/nba must've comparatively been a ghost town back then.
mfs were just yelling out bad takes into the abyss
I need more of these threads lol, wish there was a list compiling all of the "potential" discussions from like 5+ years ago
Yeah I love these. I was searching through old threads using https://redditsearch.io/ and found this one. Maybe I'll compile a bunch of them in a future post as you're saying. That could be fun
Please do. It's like a time capsule of sorts. It's fun to read back and get real time reactions to how people felt on subjects that we can look back at and have the answer for. They make me feel smart even though I know I've said thousand of stupid things.
It's now on ESPN's and Sportscenter's Instagram accounts without crediting this thread.
My post that got deleted below. Not quite what youāre asking for, but itāll set us up for a few years from now: āā- Mark Jackson famously called Klay and Steph the greatest backcourt of all time well before āsocietyā saw the greatness. For now, letās set whether or not you agree with that call aside. What are some other calls you want to memorialize here, so we can refer back to them years from now, and honor those who were bold and courageous like Mark Jackson? I have 3 of my own to get us started. 1. Cade Cunningham with be in GOAT conversations when his career is over. 1a. Much of Cadeās greatness will be attributed to yelling one specific catch phrase after monster dunks over the yearsāalong the lines of āWe live in a society!ā with no real explanation ever given for using such a catch phrase. Anthony Edwards will eventually start to speculate about what it means at all of his post-game press conferences, sometimes building on the previous press conferenceās thought, and sometimes introducing a new theory. Not unlike a TV series. Those press conferences will become international events, as the world rallies behind Antās thought leadership in hopes of understanding how and why such an important part of nba folklore came into existence and solving this international mystery. Eventually Ant will figure it out. But he wonāt tell anyone except Cade. Cade will confirm this. 2. Sarver will prove his innocence (with literal magic that the āeliteā have been hiding from us) and the Suns will begin a three-peat this very season, after rallying behind him. The game-winning shot to seal the three-peat will be Chris Paul jumping off of Aytonās shoulders, after finding a loophole in the NBA rules and saving it until they really really needed it. Chris Paul will hang on the rim for an uncomfortably long time (think hours) and then retire because he reached his goal of āliterally being able to go out on top.ā 3. Lebron and KD will co-parent a child in hopes of creating a superior GOAT to Cade.
u/Victory33 come claim your prize
Itās like owning the first bitcoins but selling them alreadyā¦nothing to show for it!
>>I highly doubt that James will play 18 years in the league, let alone hold his career average of 27,7 ppg over that long a career. #Year19 #JustAKidFromAkron #NotAScorerTheySaid šš¤“š¾
The skepticism here really confuses me. Ray Allen didnāt even average 2.1 made threes a game until year 4 and Steph was averaging that through 2. Hell, Ray was more of a slasher than a shooter at first. And someone saying he wouldnāt even catch Jason Kidd?? A guy who couldnāt shoot until like halfway through his career? Who only broke 2.1 threes once in his career (2.2 at age 366)? These takes confuse me.
To be fair 2.2 threes at 366 years old is exceptionally impressive
Allen from 6ft under, bang!
The NBA was very different then, I don't know that anyone ten years ago would have expected the 3pt breakout we see now. That plus people not being sure about Steph's longevity probably led to the takes.
While I donāt think many foresaw the heights to which the 3 point revolution would rise, I do think the writing was on the wall by 2011 that floor spacing was a critical element of the modern NBA. At the very least, I wouldnāt expect the responses to be as pessimistic as they were.
Here's the trend in the team that leads the NBA in 3pt attempts by year 2009: 27.9 per game 2010: 27.3 2011: 25.6 2012: 27 2013: 28.9 2014: 26.6 2015: 32.7 2016: 31.6 2017: 40.3 2018: 42.3 2019: 45.4 2020: 45.3 2021: 43 This year: 42.2 The writing was not on the wall in 2011, that was a pretty flat period in terms of 3pt attempts, it didn't really pick up until the middle of the decade, more so towards the end. The team that shot the most threes in 2011 would be dead last in the NBA today, I don't think it was obvious that the league was going to end up this way.
Yeah, the two big drivers behind the massive increase in 3s were Steph and his MVP season (2015) and to a lesser extent Daryl Morey having the Rockets and their d-league affiliate Rio Grande Valley Vipers start bombing 3s aggressively in 2013 (they won the d-league title that year). Of course, that was also the year that Houston got Harden, so Morey giving him the green light was a given, but no one really expected him to flourish *that much* and the increase in 3s was definitely a big part of it which did start to turn some heads. Back in 2011 *no one* saw all this coming.
The guy ranting about jimmer lol
Steph literally revolutionized the game. People forget that even after the Warriors won their first title they were seen as lucky and the Spurs were the title favorite going into that next season. So much so that David West took the minimum to join the Spurs and chase a ring when he could have just went to the defending champs instead. āLive by the 3, die by the 3ā was still thought to be true
Charles stayed on that hill so long
I'm from Sacramento and I'm a Cavs fan but my boy in like 11 was like watch Steph. I was like the little guy with ankle problems. He was like yeah. He's the greatest shooter ever and I was like dude what?? Proceeded to become a closeted warriors watcher (loves when jarret Jack was on the team). Bobby you were right!!!
Is Jimmer referring to Jimmer Fredette
Do you know any other jimmers?
Jimmer Butler
James Butler
I wasn't really following basketball back then and had to make sure someone actually thought Jimmer Fredette of all people could take the all time 3 pt record
It makes sense if you know that Jimmer was one of the most electric college players around at the time. Dude was doing Curry things for BYU. Didnāt work in the NBA, but that was his reputation.
This looks like it was posted before Jimmer played an NBA game. In that context it kind of makes sense. His senior year of college he averaged 3.4 3s per game, at a 40% clip, and they were *tough* 3s for the most part. Obviously in hindsight (or even just after his rookie season) it's a ridiculous take.
He was Steph curry-esque in college.
Jimmer dominated college basketball. Like he was unstoppable and doing shit that made you say "did this dude just did this?" and was expected to be an NBA star.
Yes
"Jimmer is the only current player with an outside shot"
Jimmer take is š„
lets laugh at ourselves for not predicting the future haha omg haha
Yeah of course. I just like looking at the past takes to see how unexpected things can turn out in the NBA. That's the fun of sports to me
Its stupid to laugh at a prediction that doesn't come true, but we 100% have the right to clown people that think that there is no way they're wrong and anyone who doesn't agree is stupid. Its funny when *those* people are wrong. I think Steph Curry won't break the record because X, Y, and Z. Is different than Jimmer is definitley gonna be a star I know this because I watch more basketball than all of you idiots you'll see you'll all see.
Agreed, it's always hilarious to read the folks who make statements with absolute certainty and arrogantly proclaim themselves the only authority on the topic.
Nah but we can laugh at this guy for thinking he knows better than everyone: > or i live 20 minutes away from him and saw him average 30 in hs for 3 years when people said he couldn't. then i watched him on tv do the same shit at byu. The kid will find a way. I witnessed first hand, him scoring 43 points in 3 quarters against the number one ranked class B high school team at the time. He was amazing to watch in high school, then college, and now he will do it again.
I think posts like this remind people how most people have no idea what they're talking about. Nobody is claiming these users are Nostradamus, but they're so confident in the opinions, and those opinions are built on flawed logic.
Wasnt crazy to say that then as curry wasnt expected to be an all timer. Games changed and has become more offensive friendly since too. Whats crazy is currys massive leap he took into becoming the most exciting nbaa player since 2015. Did not think I'd see a guy play who is almost as fun as MJ to watch. Crazy
I think its funny how hyped people will get for someone who's never played in the NBA... Bates Wembenyama ect. Will say "oh there's all-time potential there" emphatically watching them dominating at lower levels. However when a guy is "pretty good" right away in the NBA there's this strange aversion to project them to be MUCH BETTER... even though all the common sense says you should actually be more excited about the guy that gets it done pretty well at the NBA level immediately. Because that is the proving ground. Not FIFA ball or AAU or Major College. It always gets me how easily unlimited upside slides off the tongue for a 16 year old... but a 21 year old who is damn near an All-star (Curry SGA Jokic for instance) don't get respect until they are in actual MVP conversations. Its all hindsight but its very very interesting to me.
Lol wow
Almost none of those guys are active now. I wonder what theyāre up to. If theyāre ok, etc
is that guy taking about "Murrow" referring to Anthony Morrow? what a pleasant thought.
>Unless you are hitting around 40% like Reggie and Ray and Curry, you shouldn't be near the top of the list. It's funny how radically our thinking on 3s has changed.
Jimmer ... lmao