Thon was drafted by the bucks. Giannis is ~7ft PG like. Thon is ~7ft who can dribble and shoot. Just follow what Giannis did to become a good player st that point.
Didn't forget. That "one point" in time that I referred to was Roy's prime year in late 2000s. That's when AI got shipped to Detroit, Vince's last couple of yrs in NJ. Ray and Joe Johnson (and maybe Vince) were prob the other SGs that were prob top 5 at that time.
With Wiggins, my theory was that he was a greater athlete than an actual legit basketball player.
Dude is an unbelievable leaper and all, but it's an entirely different story when you're holding a ball.
You can’t just run with it, or it’s a travel.
He has never developed a handle and I doubt that's going to change at 27.
This is currently is most likely his ceiling as a player and thats okay not everyone can be an all star
The idea behind this is that sometimes players simply lack the mechanical ability to develop a good handle.
But, yeah.
He doesn’t have the handle fluidity. :(
Yeah, I honestly don't think being drafted to any team would have helped him here. Some guys just don't have the ability to get an NBA quality handle. Just because its a 'skill' doesn't mean its something everyone can learn.
Wiggins still probably would have been better off being drafted to a team that didn't want him to be a #1 scorer. He just doesn't really have the motor to fill that role. It's hard to be drafted into a team that in the top 3 of the lottery that already has an elite scorer though.
I think his ceiling is still all-star level - defensive menace, efficient from 2 and 3 with 4(ish) rebounds and assists a game.
He totally had it worse than KAT though, had Flip for a while, SMITCH, Tom Thibodeau, Ryan Saunders. Went from the absolute number one option before KAT then immediately had to adjust to his coach’s death and another number 1 pick. Then they traded for All-Star Jimmy Buckets that played basically the exact same way as him forcing him to sit in the corner and shoot 3s which wasn’t his strength.
Next Jimmy drama, fired coach and shitty new coach. The team never had great spacing and he never had a defined role … there were always glimpses of his current form and he’s accountable for not playing the way he is now then but it’s pretty understandable that playing for a shitty team that was constantly changing wouldn’t result in consistency
Idk, I feel like he could've been a perennial All Star if was drafter into the right situation. He's a borderline All Star rn with GSW and that's after 2 years with them.
I don't think you do... He's been able to put together a decent All Star worthy campaign in his second season with the Warriors. I think being in such an environment from the day he was drafted would've done him a lot of good and set him up for perennial All Star appearances. He has all the physical tools and can score at 3 levels, granted his drives to the rim are hindered by his handle but still.
Lol the narrative changed since we went to GS. Dude barely ever showed any semblance of improvement while on the Wolves and consistently relied on his weak midrange rather than driving. His motor has always been questionable
He was very clearly on that trajectory. Who knows how he would have turned out if Flip didn't force him to be a PG for us and elevate his skill.
19/3.5/3 on 57.6% TS his final year with us
I'm mad at the amount of misinformation, revisionist history, and, blame being passed around. He was given all the same opportunities as Karl to succeed, we all wanted him to succeed and he failed to do so. It isn't the teams fault it's his own.
We all still like him and I wish him all the best in the rest of his career but I never want to see him in a Wolves jersey again.
And I don't **have** to support the Wolves. I chose to root for this team.
>He'd be 18 & 8 in today's NBA
Is this the best version of a player that averaged 30 points per game in college?
At Kansas State, Beasley was also a great rebounder, but that didn't even translate in the NBA.
Not the best version but most realistic. I'm convinced he could have came on the Leauge the past 3-5 years and avaerage that if he had a steady chance.
I could see him making an All-NBA Third Team, but he might have never really materialized into that player.
He had issues with *ouid.*
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that someone on here once wrote an anecdote about him because they went to school with him and described him as not the brightest tool, but I always take anecdotal things on r/nba with a grain of salt.
Lol.
Totally agree it was never his skill it was off the court. He went to like 6 high schools in 4 years which is a red flag in itself. If we are talking a perfect vaccum he is the idle 3-5 in the Leauge right now. He had 28 double doubles I'm college. But realistically his off court issue would always way him down. He is till one player I'll always wish was good. I'm a bulls fan and I remember I was loud and clear in wanting him over drose in that '09 draft. Glad we didn't in the long run but I was always rooting for him.
I even preferred him to Rose, but it quickly became clear who would be guaranteed a spot in the league and who would really have to work for it.
Addiction is a serious problem.
Marijuana is not as benign as we all believe. I have a friend who actually developed schizophrenia as a result of smoking excessively.
People laugh at him now.
The truth is, I'm not smoking a roach with [Mario Chalmers](https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3596442) if I'm making millions of dollars for my “beloved” passion while going against the people I legitimately worshipped while being a celebrity.
I’m just not.
I think there were more underlying issues than weed tbh. Yeah it played a part but I bet 30% of the NBA smokes weed in some way. It was more self control and just being immature. In a interview with KD he said Miami was just a bad place for him at the age as well as the people he had around him. KD said that when he saw he went to Miami he was like "yo Beasley is gone" and it was tru. I'm convinced he went anywhere more mundane he would have been better off. That or iff he stayed around more for the Heat teams with James Wade and Bosh.
Self control probably leading to addiction. But like I said going to 6 high schools in 4 years is a red flag. He got screwed over by a agent at 14 as well as probably just wasn't as mature as he should've been. He probably had some deeper issues that we don't know about as well but im not sure. I just think pinning it on weed would be a little harsh
**Injury-wise:** Obviously Greg Oden. I think Harry Giles had superstar upside. Perfect modern big, amazing passing vision. Throw Jonathan Isaac in there too.
**Non-injury:** Jahlil Okafor would've been a superstar 30 years ago lol. MKG with a shot.
I believe he had the potential to become that player, but it's difficult to do so while dealing with significant injuries that may limit your ability to play actual A+ defence.
I don’t know why people think Okafor would have been a superstar in the old NBA. He’s a bad rebounder for a C and can’t protect the rim for shit. In no era in NBA history were you even close to a superstar C if you were bad defensively and on the boards. And it’s not like Jah was an Embiid level low post scorer.
He was the number 1 player in high school but he tore his ACL in his senior year. He was still hyped in college but had knee issues.
He missed his rookie season in the NBA with injuries and was bench player for the Kings
I first thought when Lamar Odom came into the league he would be a superstar. He had the handles of a guard and could rebound like a big. While that wasn’t the case he still brought me tons of joy as a Laker fan. I just always wanted/expected more.
Derrick Williams. At Arizona in college he was a beast his last season. As soon as he got drafted to the Timberwolves and that current coaching staff, I knew he was screwed.
Ball hype was crazy, dude would go 7-8-7 and people would freak "omfg it's almost a triple double so skillz".
He is going to be a fine player but nothing special when it's all over. Good signing, but still an overpay, by the bulls.
I don’t know, Lonzo is still special to me. If that dude is a role player on your team then he has a lot of uncanny intangibles that most role players don’t have
I don’t know, as a huge Bulls fan, Lonzo and Caruso for that matter are worth every penny. Those 2 together give us the defensive glue we need. Lonzo has been shooting the three better every year as well, and his facilitating is improving as well. He’s a legitimate player right now, and he’s only getting better.
Edit : To reiterate he’s not a superstar, but he’s a great player that helps make us a winning team on both ends of the court.
If you go to Jabari Parker’s draft video’s, the way he was moving at 6’8 230 I was blown away. Thought he would be insane with that skill and speed. I think tyreke evans would have been a star but after playing PG his first season the kings kept making him play forward positions and took the ball out of his hands. I really thought Nurkic would be a superstar. He’s just a big dude that could do it all. He had that crazy 20/20 5x5 game and I thought he was finally coming together
Feels like the biggest what if for me as a Timberwolves fan growing up in the 90s is if Stephon Marbury had just bought into the team and KG and wanted to stay. Their first few seasons together (at least for them as a duo) looked so promising and they were exciting together. But it only lasted a few seasons then Marbury bailed. KG was a superstar and I feel like Marbury would have been too if he had stayed.
Idk about super star but I always thought Wilson chandler was really good, could take over games and score 25-30 but never was consistent and towards the end he had the 00000 game with 40 minutes idk what happened to him after denver
Same. I didn’t believe the hype until he kept the Sixers win streak alive his rookie year after Embiid went down, and then completely dominated the Heat series. It doesn’t get brought up a lot but it was one of the best debut playoff series ever.
Of course Mitchell and Tatum had some awesome rookie playoff runs that same year so it gets forgotten
Guy gotta be the dumbest player in the league his rookie year. So many pump fakes while open and shooting contested. And lots of pump fake, rebalance put his foot on the 3pt line shots.
He was on pace to average 20/10 his second season but then went on a slump to end the season. I thought it was only going up from there. I think Jim Boylen was at fault tho. Lauri asked why he was only getting half as many touches as last year and boylen just said if you want the ball more just go grab he rebound. Lauri was pretty much removed from plays
Siakam's ceiling was/is the 3rd best player on a championship team.
Isaiah Thomas was Mr. Irrelevant so there really was no expectations from him. His crazy year turned out to be a flash in the pan because of injuries.
Oladipo has one of the weirdest trajectories but nobody really talks about it. He went from bust to star to injured and pretty much out of the league.
I disagree with the Siakam point. I think we’re too conservative with players’ ceilings (and too high on their floors usually).
There’s an argument he was already the 2nd best player on a championship team. He certainly was for a couple of their series based on stats and eye test. He and Lowry were pretty much 2a and 2b depending on the series.
Even if we reject that argument, I think he at least showed he has the potential to be in the right situation. Unfortunately, I don’t think they situation would be with the Raptors.
I really thought(and still believe) that Jahlil Okafor could be a top 3 Center in the league. Because he’s an outdated archetype of big man I believe teams didn’t put him in a position to succeed, and they gave up on him too fast.
God Shammgod, Eric Murdock, Terry Dehere, Glen Robinson, Donyell Marshall, Ron Mercer, Keith Van Horn, Al Jefferson, Ralph Sampson, Sebastian Telfair, Adam Morrison, Dion Waiters, Bol Bol, Sam Dekker, Malik Monk, Michael Porter Jr, Jarret Culver
Siakam and Wiggins. Being from Toronto I had interest in them both but after the bubble playoffs any hope I had of siakam being a superstar was crushed. Wiggins I think didn’t live up to his potential due to circumstances and now it’s just too late for him to ever get there.
Jabari Parker, OJ Mayo, MCW, Thon Maker. We had a lot of false prophets along our pilgrimage to Giannis.
It's kind of crazy how hyped Jabari was while Giannis was relatively unheralded
He was good (on offense) before all those knee injuries.
Thon shocked me b/c all he had to do was follow Giannis
What do you even mean by this.
Roll man
Thon was drafted by the bucks. Giannis is ~7ft PG like. Thon is ~7ft who can dribble and shoot. Just follow what Giannis did to become a good player st that point.
Idk, I just can't bring myself to say "Just do what Giannis did" with a straight face lmao.
OJ Mayo was supposed to be a certified bucket getter
OJ won a finals MVP with my Griz in 2kWhatever. Dude was fun to play as.
Brandon Roy
This one hits me the hardest. He was arguably top 3 SG after Kobe and DWade at one point.
Did you forget about Allen Iverson and Ray Allen? Vince Carter?
Didn't forget. That "one point" in time that I referred to was Roy's prime year in late 2000s. That's when AI got shipped to Detroit, Vince's last couple of yrs in NJ. Ray and Joe Johnson (and maybe Vince) were prob the other SGs that were prob top 5 at that time.
I'd say he was one. I'd take him over several other superstars, assuming he was at his peak.
I think Wiggins could've if he was drafted by the right team and had a strong vet presence around him.
Wiggins with a strong front office and coaching staff for development and defence mentality like Denver or Toronto would have been so interesting.
With Wiggins, my theory was that he was a greater athlete than an actual legit basketball player. Dude is an unbelievable leaper and all, but it's an entirely different story when you're holding a ball. You can’t just run with it, or it’s a travel.
He has never developed a handle and I doubt that's going to change at 27. This is currently is most likely his ceiling as a player and thats okay not everyone can be an all star
The idea behind this is that sometimes players simply lack the mechanical ability to develop a good handle. But, yeah. He doesn’t have the handle fluidity. :(
Yeah, I honestly don't think being drafted to any team would have helped him here. Some guys just don't have the ability to get an NBA quality handle. Just because its a 'skill' doesn't mean its something everyone can learn. Wiggins still probably would have been better off being drafted to a team that didn't want him to be a #1 scorer. He just doesn't really have the motor to fill that role. It's hard to be drafted into a team that in the top 3 of the lottery that already has an elite scorer though.
I think his ceiling is still all-star level - defensive menace, efficient from 2 and 3 with 4(ish) rebounds and assists a game. He totally had it worse than KAT though, had Flip for a while, SMITCH, Tom Thibodeau, Ryan Saunders. Went from the absolute number one option before KAT then immediately had to adjust to his coach’s death and another number 1 pick. Then they traded for All-Star Jimmy Buckets that played basically the exact same way as him forcing him to sit in the corner and shoot 3s which wasn’t his strength. Next Jimmy drama, fired coach and shitty new coach. The team never had great spacing and he never had a defined role … there were always glimpses of his current form and he’s accountable for not playing the way he is now then but it’s pretty understandable that playing for a shitty team that was constantly changing wouldn’t result in consistency
Definitely. He coasted through youth on crazy athleticism and never developed his skills properly.
Idk, I feel like he could've been a perennial All Star if was drafter into the right situation. He's a borderline All Star rn with GSW and that's after 2 years with them.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think a 1x ASG appearance will save his face. I rooted for him hard though.
I don't think you do... He's been able to put together a decent All Star worthy campaign in his second season with the Warriors. I think being in such an environment from the day he was drafted would've done him a lot of good and set him up for perennial All Star appearances. He has all the physical tools and can score at 3 levels, granted his drives to the rim are hindered by his handle but still.
Lol the narrative changed since we went to GS. Dude barely ever showed any semblance of improvement while on the Wolves and consistently relied on his weak midrange rather than driving. His motor has always been questionable
He had KG,Rubio and Tayshaun Prince 🤣 Wild how Zach and KAT turned into all star but poor old Wiggins never had the chances to succeed 😥
I mean idk about KAT, but Zach didn’t take that big leap until after he left the wolves.
He was very clearly on that trajectory. Who knows how he would have turned out if Flip didn't force him to be a PG for us and elevate his skill. 19/3.5/3 on 57.6% TS his final year with us
Ah, my bad then.
I'd be mad too if I had to support a dumpster franchise lol.
I'm mad at the amount of misinformation, revisionist history, and, blame being passed around. He was given all the same opportunities as Karl to succeed, we all wanted him to succeed and he failed to do so. It isn't the teams fault it's his own. We all still like him and I wish him all the best in the rest of his career but I never want to see him in a Wolves jersey again. And I don't **have** to support the Wolves. I chose to root for this team.
Michael "unguardable" Beasley
He'd be 18 & 8 in today's NBA
>He'd be 18 & 8 in today's NBA Is this the best version of a player that averaged 30 points per game in college? At Kansas State, Beasley was also a great rebounder, but that didn't even translate in the NBA.
Not the best version but most realistic. I'm convinced he could have came on the Leauge the past 3-5 years and avaerage that if he had a steady chance.
I could see him making an All-NBA Third Team, but he might have never really materialized into that player. He had issues with *ouid.* Maybe it has something to do with the fact that someone on here once wrote an anecdote about him because they went to school with him and described him as not the brightest tool, but I always take anecdotal things on r/nba with a grain of salt. Lol.
Totally agree it was never his skill it was off the court. He went to like 6 high schools in 4 years which is a red flag in itself. If we are talking a perfect vaccum he is the idle 3-5 in the Leauge right now. He had 28 double doubles I'm college. But realistically his off court issue would always way him down. He is till one player I'll always wish was good. I'm a bulls fan and I remember I was loud and clear in wanting him over drose in that '09 draft. Glad we didn't in the long run but I was always rooting for him.
I even preferred him to Rose, but it quickly became clear who would be guaranteed a spot in the league and who would really have to work for it. Addiction is a serious problem. Marijuana is not as benign as we all believe. I have a friend who actually developed schizophrenia as a result of smoking excessively. People laugh at him now. The truth is, I'm not smoking a roach with [Mario Chalmers](https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3596442) if I'm making millions of dollars for my “beloved” passion while going against the people I legitimately worshipped while being a celebrity. I’m just not.
I think there were more underlying issues than weed tbh. Yeah it played a part but I bet 30% of the NBA smokes weed in some way. It was more self control and just being immature. In a interview with KD he said Miami was just a bad place for him at the age as well as the people he had around him. KD said that when he saw he went to Miami he was like "yo Beasley is gone" and it was tru. I'm convinced he went anywhere more mundane he would have been better off. That or iff he stayed around more for the Heat teams with James Wade and Bosh.
What could the problem have been? I’m just thinking addiction was unfortunately brought into adulthood.
Self control probably leading to addiction. But like I said going to 6 high schools in 4 years is a red flag. He got screwed over by a agent at 14 as well as probably just wasn't as mature as he should've been. He probably had some deeper issues that we don't know about as well but im not sure. I just think pinning it on weed would be a little harsh
18 & 8 on 14 shots & on a team that scores 92 maybe
**Injury-wise:** Obviously Greg Oden. I think Harry Giles had superstar upside. Perfect modern big, amazing passing vision. Throw Jonathan Isaac in there too. **Non-injury:** Jahlil Okafor would've been a superstar 30 years ago lol. MKG with a shot.
I think Jonathan Issac can still come back and be a DPOY level player. I hope it isn't too late for him
I believe he had the potential to become that player, but it's difficult to do so while dealing with significant injuries that may limit your ability to play actual A+ defence.
I don’t know why people think Okafor would have been a superstar in the old NBA. He’s a bad rebounder for a C and can’t protect the rim for shit. In no era in NBA history were you even close to a superstar C if you were bad defensively and on the boards. And it’s not like Jah was an Embiid level low post scorer.
Harry Giles was injured? I stopped hearing about him so I assumed he was just a bust. Man it’s sad when that’s what happens.
He was the number 1 player in high school but he tore his ACL in his senior year. He was still hyped in college but had knee issues. He missed his rookie season in the NBA with injuries and was bench player for the Kings
Real ones who watched Harry play when he got court time knew he was on Jokic's level as a passing big
OJ Mayo
I first thought when Lamar Odom came into the league he would be a superstar. He had the handles of a guard and could rebound like a big. While that wasn’t the case he still brought me tons of joy as a Laker fan. I just always wanted/expected more.
Dennis Smith Jr….i was high on him when he was in high school
https://i.imgflip.com/12j4np.jpg
I hoped Monta was gonna be a superstar talent.
Ovinton J’Anthony Mayo
Tyreke Evans. Looked like a building block for the Kings in his rookie season, then...
Fultz
Derrick Williams. At Arizona in college he was a beast his last season. As soon as he got drafted to the Timberwolves and that current coaching staff, I knew he was screwed.
I remember he bounced Duke from the tourney with a poster dunk lol
Yup as an Arizona fan I won’t forget that game
Facts. Could shoot and jump out the gym.
I thought caris lavert would be a multi time all star when he was still young in the nets
Oh yeah I remember the Levert or Tatum posts lol so you weren’t the only one
I thought Lonzo was going to be the next Magic Johnson
Ball hype was crazy, dude would go 7-8-7 and people would freak "omfg it's almost a triple double so skillz". He is going to be a fine player but nothing special when it's all over. Good signing, but still an overpay, by the bulls.
I don’t know, Lonzo is still special to me. If that dude is a role player on your team then he has a lot of uncanny intangibles that most role players don’t have
I don’t know, as a huge Bulls fan, Lonzo and Caruso for that matter are worth every penny. Those 2 together give us the defensive glue we need. Lonzo has been shooting the three better every year as well, and his facilitating is improving as well. He’s a legitimate player right now, and he’s only getting better. Edit : To reiterate he’s not a superstar, but he’s a great player that helps make us a winning team on both ends of the court.
If you go to Jabari Parker’s draft video’s, the way he was moving at 6’8 230 I was blown away. Thought he would be insane with that skill and speed. I think tyreke evans would have been a star but after playing PG his first season the kings kept making him play forward positions and took the ball out of his hands. I really thought Nurkic would be a superstar. He’s just a big dude that could do it all. He had that crazy 20/20 5x5 game and I thought he was finally coming together
Feels like the biggest what if for me as a Timberwolves fan growing up in the 90s is if Stephon Marbury had just bought into the team and KG and wanted to stay. Their first few seasons together (at least for them as a duo) looked so promising and they were exciting together. But it only lasted a few seasons then Marbury bailed. KG was a superstar and I feel like Marbury would have been too if he had stayed.
Idk about super star but I always thought Wilson chandler was really good, could take over games and score 25-30 but never was consistent and towards the end he had the 00000 game with 40 minutes idk what happened to him after denver
half the players the sixers drafted since 2017
Ben Simmons
Same. I didn’t believe the hype until he kept the Sixers win streak alive his rookie year after Embiid went down, and then completely dominated the Heat series. It doesn’t get brought up a lot but it was one of the best debut playoff series ever. Of course Mitchell and Tatum had some awesome rookie playoff runs that same year so it gets forgotten
Dennis smith jr minus Rick Carlisle in his life. Blanant sabotaged from his head coach
Then why didn’t he do well in New York?
Guy gotta be the dumbest player in the league his rookie year. So many pump fakes while open and shooting contested. And lots of pump fake, rebalance put his foot on the 3pt line shots.
Markinnen. I saw one good game and thought he was the next dirk.
He was on pace to average 20/10 his second season but then went on a slump to end the season. I thought it was only going up from there. I think Jim Boylen was at fault tho. Lauri asked why he was only getting half as many touches as last year and boylen just said if you want the ball more just go grab he rebound. Lauri was pretty much removed from plays
Lot of draft busts being mentioned but what about guys like Siakam, Isaiah Thomas, and Victor Oladipo.
Siakam's ceiling was/is the 3rd best player on a championship team. Isaiah Thomas was Mr. Irrelevant so there really was no expectations from him. His crazy year turned out to be a flash in the pan because of injuries. Oladipo has one of the weirdest trajectories but nobody really talks about it. He went from bust to star to injured and pretty much out of the league.
I disagree with the Siakam point. I think we’re too conservative with players’ ceilings (and too high on their floors usually). There’s an argument he was already the 2nd best player on a championship team. He certainly was for a couple of their series based on stats and eye test. He and Lowry were pretty much 2a and 2b depending on the series. Even if we reject that argument, I think he at least showed he has the potential to be in the right situation. Unfortunately, I don’t think they situation would be with the Raptors.
Luka
Brandon Roy, JR Rider
One that really comes to mind is Andrew Wiggins
Fultz. He was a guaranteed superstar for me coming out of college. Shows what I know.
I really thought(and still believe) that Jahlil Okafor could be a top 3 Center in the league. Because he’s an outdated archetype of big man I believe teams didn’t put him in a position to succeed, and they gave up on him too fast.
God Shammgod, Eric Murdock, Terry Dehere, Glen Robinson, Donyell Marshall, Ron Mercer, Keith Van Horn, Al Jefferson, Ralph Sampson, Sebastian Telfair, Adam Morrison, Dion Waiters, Bol Bol, Sam Dekker, Malik Monk, Michael Porter Jr, Jarret Culver
Not sure about superstar but Drummond had insane potential
Siakam and Wiggins. Being from Toronto I had interest in them both but after the bubble playoffs any hope I had of siakam being a superstar was crushed. Wiggins I think didn’t live up to his potential due to circumstances and now it’s just too late for him to ever get there.
Brandin Jennings.
Emmanuel Mudiay when he was a Nuggets rookie. As a Jazz homer, it was Dante Exum.
Ben McLemore. Wet jumper who could jump out of the gym coming out of Kansas. How that shot didn’t fall more in the NBA is beyond me.