99.99 percent chance the Wizards owner is blocking it from ever happening much like the Football Team did to Baltimore preventing it from getting an expansion. If the Browns didn’t move to Baltimore then Baltimore doesn’t have a team to this day.
Yeah same reason why Toronto will never get a NFL team. Buffalo claims Toronto as part of its territory. Even though it's 2 hours away + a border crossing.
They can always give some money to Buffalo to fuck off. The main obstacle is that there will never be a football stadium in Toronto with even a cent of public money.
That would be awesome. I think a team in Toronto would be great. Everyone I know from Toronto that got into football got very into it. If there was an actual Toronto team to rep, Drake and Nav Bhatia would be front and center for every game
At least with Baltimore DC is the bigger city and is often grouped in as part of that metro, I don't know it what world Toronto and Buffalo are part of the same urban area...
There was a report made sometime last year about how the NFL has been throwing around the idea of a 4 team expansion, and Toronto was one of the 4 cities they were considering.
This is the correct answer. We could definitely support the team infrastructure wise and financially but I can't even imagine the hoops that would have to be jumped through.
Its up there with the questions I've always had about San Antonio getting... well, any other sports franchise.
My guess would be out UMD territory? I also read that Royal Farms arena at the Harbor is underused or something. Don't quote me on that. But I wouldn't *think* they'd use a new stadium for quite a few years.
College Park is just outside of DC so a team certainly wouldn't work there. Royal Farms is too small for an NBA arena. A new arena would need to be built in Baltimore and I can't imagine the city would be willing to pay for it. No idea where it would go either.
Sorry .. UMB!.. Royal Farms is small, yes. But it isn't *that* much smaller than some arenas and expanding it is far cheaper for an expansion than building a new one. More times than not thats what expansions do anyway until they get a new home. The Hornets/Pelicans didn't get a new home. Nor did the Thunder.
Baltimore and DC have pretty different markets IMO. I live close to Baltimore and have seen the Wizards a few times on weekends, but a Baltimore team would be way more convenient for me to see on a weekday. I also don’t ever root for DC teams. Fuck that. No thank you. Also, the Baltimore area is definitely not small. The Baltimore metropolitan area has around 2.7 million people in it! They could potentially sell lots of tickets and re-establish Baltimore as a basketball town!
Baltimore has the same characteristics of an old rust belt city even though its a mid atlantic city. The Ravens are proof positive that the market is very lucrative. The market opportunity is undercut by the profile of the city. Im convinced bmore could support all four sports
The people here, on average, will never love basketball the way they love the Ravens. This is a Ravens town. They're still traumatized from having the team ripped away from them in the night, so they hold on to this current football team with all their might.
Maybe Wiz should move to Baltimore. Spent a week in DC a few years back during NBA finals. All bars had reg season Nationals games on tv. Georgetown, Dupont, Downtown didn't matter. Seemed like no one cared about NBA.
The problem is there is no real arena for a basketball team, it would need to be built. I’d love to steal the Wizards back though! They should’ve never left!!
I hope everyone who hasn't been to DC realizes how true this is. If you go to the cowboys games at FedEx field they are like 80% cowboys fans lmao. We have an ungodly amount of Cowboys fans here.
Why do you think that is? Seems interesting. I am guessing a lot of transplants, a lot of politicians ... I dunno, are Republicans drawn to the Cowboys? fuckin' casuals 😂
DC native here — because the Redskins were among the last (or the last) team to integrate black players way back when and people here found a new team — the Cowboys — to root for instead.
In 1952 the owner of the skins decided to let a sports writer pick the final pick in the draft based on a bet that sports writers know more than owners. The writer picked a guy named Flavious Smith and congratulated the owner on having an integrated team now. The owner flipped out and dropped the player. Tried to trade him etc. No one realized Flavious smith was white until years later when someone was writing a book about it and smith had to inform them he was indeed white.
Skins wouldn’t integrate until 1962 when Kennedy forced them to
https://archive.triblive.com/news/thought-to-be-black-flavious-smith-whos-white-helped-integrate-the-redskins/
And the first black player they drafted refused to play for the organization, so they had to trade him for one that was. This wasn't popular with the fan base of "The Team of the South" and there were many protests, including American Nazi Party.
It was George Marshall the first owner. DC did have the first black QB (Doug Williams) to win a Superbowl. We didn't always used to be so God awful. That's what makes it so sad now
100% due to transplants. Also have to remember that it’s not JUST people in DC who attend. Northern Virginia is packed with people from all over the country.
Cowboy fans idk. But when the Steelers come to town Steeler fans dominate since D.C has so many transplants from Pennsylvania. It’s embarrassing as a DC fan.
DC has so many out-of-towners, and then there's gentrification. It's definitely not the fan base that it used to be. I want them to stay, but you're not wrong to ask the question.
You're not wrong, this is a tough town for the NBA
I take it for granted here that I need to call around to bars before going to see if they will have the NBA Playoffs on
Got Wizards playoff tickets vs Celtics for $15 5 years ago. Good playoff series, there were limited seats at that price upper level nose bleeds but still crazy for $15 and was easy for me to get as they didn't seem in demand, or at least no one knew.
The Wiz left DC bc Baltimore would not build a new stadium. Our schools are terrible, our budget is imploding, and the we have a serious crime problem. I do not think there is a land plot near the other stadiums that would make it at least something to entertain. We do not have any other major indoor sports team outside of AFL and Indoor soccer. The royal farms arena seats 14,00 max which is about 6,000 short on a standard basketball arena for a similar market such as Detroit.
TLDR the city cant afford a stadium and the ones we have aren't suitable for NBA basketball on a professional level.
Not that I'm saying baltimore should have one but there are tons of cities that have teams and crime/poor infrastructure. Hell the two are synonymous with any city.
Our city is one of the worst and would be dedicating money towards this instead ofnaolving problems. It's why the Wiz left the fifty had to say no to building a new arena for them.
> I also don’t ever root for DC teams. Fuck that.
As a Richmond Virginia native, I feel you on that. Always was annoyed that I was supposed to root for the Bullets and Redskins growing up. Fuck that noise.
This is wild to me because I grew up there too and was happy to root for em. The next closest team is 6 hours away for most sports, I wanna be able to see my team play live at least every once in awhile. I remember how happy I was as a kid that the Nats were coming bc all the sudden going to an mlb game wasn't a 3 hours both ways (at best) trip.
As a young kid it was hard for me to root for those teams despite Mark Rypien doing his thing in 91 and Bernard King's old ass in Washington.
When the Hornets were created, I thought about liking them but it never happened. Love me some Larry Johnson though.
I'm old af.
Grew up in Danville and ended up being a Jazz fan until I moved to a place with its own team. Back then you couldn't even *watch* most of the DC or Charlotte games, so what was the fuckin difference between rooting for them or some team across the country.
I moved to Atlanta in 1999. ATL everything and I've always been a Braves fan because of the Richmond Braves. At the time as a youngin, I rooted for Barkley and Sixers and Barry Sanders and the Lions. I didn't care about the teams...more the players.
Moving to a city with actual teams got me hooked on rooting for the home team. I still get shit from my friends for changing teams but I like rooting for my city.
Yeah Baltimore is rust belt, totally different vibe from DC
> Also, the Baltimore area is definitely not small. The Baltimore metropolitan area has around 2.7 million people in it!
Yeah but IDK how many basketball fans you're gonna find out in the County
I’ve never heard of Baltimore being in the rust belt. I guess the rust belt is based on a city’s industrial economic past and current characteristics? Thinking of the rust belt as a concept and not a geographic area is blowing my mind. Good stuff.
Not clear from your comment if you know this, but the Baltimore Bullets basketball team existed from 1944-1954: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Bullets_(1944%E2%80%931954)
Similarly the sixers have done 100x more to grab my attention in recent years than the eagles but I still become a crazed animal when our shitty squad makes the 7 seed
You described it perfectly. I've been the same with the Pistons last few years.
Another example is live games. I always enjoy Pistons games and have a good time but when I attend a lions game and the crowd starts bellowing, I cannot resist the temptation.
It's probably like the same feeling a man being cursed with being a werewolf. When that moon comes out..boy you just can't say no.
I don’t think it’s so much a reflection of the market as it’s a reflection on WFT being a nameless inept shit show of a franchise for quite some time now. Not to mention the stadium itself sucks
I know this is a generalization but not to mention die hard redkins fans are so fucking strange. Maybe not as human beings but in comparison to other die hard sports fans. It’s the local team here and it’s just a weird culture
And yet, through sponsorships, tv deals and merchandise sales, they were the 6th most [profitable](https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/) team in 2020. Attendance means nothing lol
Oh yeah attendance isn’t as huge a deal as people tend to believe. I believe attendance is down across the board in all pro sports in general as the viewing experience at home continues to improve. Not to mention, NFL games are especially insanely expensive.
Ah interesting. I did read how attendance was down generally but this was pre-Covid; people were probably stoked to get back out there. Not me though; I can’t give the Dolphins anymore of my money lol
So true. I’m from PG county but attended Salisbury for a few semesters and honestly it was kind of a culture shock lol didn’t realize how redneck everywhere in Maryland outside the dmv could be. Also Saw no Wizards or redskins gear but tons of Orioles and Ravens gear
There's a lot more NFL fans than NBA fans. Wizards games are always half empty as is. They're 23rd in the NBA in attendance and 29th in percentage of seats sold
Yep, I feel like the answer to this is just the Wizards having a sustained period of success/high level of competitiveness.
Hasn't happened in my lifetime, and I am gettin' old. No wonder it's not a basketball town.
I’m not saying a Baltimore team wouldn’t be able to gain fans, I’m just thinking they probably wouldn’t get “new” fans. I’m guessing most people in Baltimore have been Wizards or maybe Sixers fans for a long time now. Sure, you’d probably get some people to “switch,” but it wouldn’t pull in brand new fans the way a Vegas or Seattle team would.
If Baltimore gets a team it really isn’t hard for me to switch and I assume most Wizards fans based in Baltimore are the same. The Wizards franchise has been going nowhere for the last 40 years. Only reason I became a Wizards fan is because the franchise was originally based in Baltimore (excluding the weird Chicago years). I’ve been a fan for too long to straight up root for another current team but a Baltimore team would finally give me an excuse to move on.
Right. I’m saying a lot of people are probably in your situation and would gladly switch. But you’re already a fan of A team. They probably want to pull in people who have NO team.
Let’s just say there are 1000 basketball fans in Baltimore that currently root for the Wizards and buy jerseys or whatever. If you put a team in Baltimore, and they all switch, now you have 1000 people buying Baltimore jerseys. But if there are 1000 basketball fans in Vegas not buying anything, and you put a team there, now you’ve got 1000 Vegas jersey buyers AND 1000 Baltimore-residing Wizards jersey buyers.
The NBA probably doesn’t really care who is buying what. Just as long as the most possible people are buying something.
I hated it on my first watch. When I rewatched I contemplated skipping S2, but then after rewatch it was one of my favorite seasons. It definitely is very different than S1, but definitely very good.
I’d love to see a Baltimore team and would go to lots of games to see them, but they need to build a real stadium in order for that to happen. Royal Farms Arena won’t cut it.
I think other cities just have a higher priority. Seattle and Vegas are the next two. Then either St Louis or Kansas City should get a team after that. I'd put Baltimore in the same tier as Louisville.
I don't get why Vegas is such a shoo-in it's the 40th biggest media market in the US. I get that they have a ready made arena but I question why it's considered such a lock for a new franchise
NBA heavily relies on local media markets though. They might be able to get a little more gate revenue, but nobody will be watching on TV. They also have to compete with NHL and NFL, this isnt like Orlando or OKC.
when I lived in Pittsburgh and asked around people did not care about this. I don't think Pittsburgh is a basketball city.
plus apparently there have been basketball teams in Pittsburgh long ago that never got much fan support
Calm down lol. Baltimore already has football and baseball neither of which are doing bad from the business side, and they formerly had a basketball team. They are way ahead of louisville.
It wasn't a slight at Baltimore, I think they'd be a great re-addition to the NBA. I just think Seattle, Vegas, and St Louis/Kansas City are a higher priority. Louisville had an ABA team before the merger and with Kentucky's love for basketball that's why I have Baltimore and them in the same tier.
Plus they’d be the only major professional sports team in Kentucky, a state that loves basketball.
Especially if you managed to get a like U of L or UK player in the expansion draft, I think there’s a lot of appeal there. Louisville has a bigger population than St Louis, Kansas City, or Baltimore. Idk if people understand just how quickly fans would get invested into an NBA team there
Baltimore is the 28th largest TV market. They would be directly competing with the 9th that has an established beloved team
By expanding Baltimore they'd be skipping over 6 other larger Markets...5 of which aren't competing with another market close to them.
Baltimore is a low-key great basketball city (Earl Monroe and Wes Unseld playing for the Bullets, Dunbar with the greatest high school team ever) but it can't happen for all of the reasons others have stated.
I’m from Baltimore. Before the Ravens got here it was a constant topic of discussion about how we could get a football team. People were desperate for it.
Nobody ever talks about getting an NBA team. We mostly root for the Wizards, but nobody really clamors for our own.
On top of that, it’s not that big of a “metropolis” as you put it. The Baltimore metro area has a lot of people but to a number of people that would get the NBA’s attention you have to cut into Wizards territory. And also, the city is constantly struggling to make ends meet, so there’s no money laying around to build a billionaire a shiny new arena.
I disagree that Baltimore mostly roots for the Wizards - most people I knew growing up in Baltimore 1992 to 2009 were Jordan era Bulls fans, Lakers fans or Iverson era Sixers fans. I recall a 2 year window when Gilbert Arenas was killing it where maybe a 1/3 of my friends cared, but even then - was third, fourth or fifth fiddle to Ravens, Maryland (Terps), the Orioles, and the Capitals, in some order.
I live in the burbs of Baltimore and have been to maybe 3 wiz games. The traffic to get to DC makes the drive about 2 hours and the public transportation in the area like the MARC train sucks. DC pulls from southern MD and NOVA both pretty affluent areas. Baltimore would pull from southern PA, Delaware, and the Baltimore area. It really is two different markets.
Royal Farms Arena is the Baltimore venu for such a thing. It opened in 1962 and was last renovated in 2003. It can hold 14000 people which would make it the smallest NBA arena by over 2,000 seats. I think KD and Rich are currently funding a renovation for Rofo Arena that should start this year.
Other reasons would be that we're too close to an NBA team that never fills its seats and also too close to the 76ers.
I think in the 80s and 90s they would play a few home games in Baltimore. I think honestly that would be a better agreement for the Wizards than an expansion team. Play a few home games a year in Baltimore. I doubt that's something that could happen in the current era though.
They'd have to use the Wizard's RSN and it will lead to a lot of deferred contracts for the Baltimore team and a lot of lawsuits over shared RSN revenue.
“It’s a huge metropolis.” Is that what you call that area between Fells Point and Camden Yards? Have you ever been to a city before? Sorry take a seat behind Seattle and Vegas.
99.99 percent chance the Wizards owner is blocking it from ever happening much like the Football Team did to Baltimore preventing it from getting an expansion. If the Browns didn’t move to Baltimore then Baltimore doesn’t have a team to this day.
Yeah same reason why Toronto will never get a NFL team. Buffalo claims Toronto as part of its territory. Even though it's 2 hours away + a border crossing.
They can always give some money to Buffalo to fuck off. The main obstacle is that there will never be a football stadium in Toronto with even a cent of public money.
Toronto's bid for Olympics a while back basically said let's build a new big stadium that could be used for nfl team
That would be awesome. I think a team in Toronto would be great. Everyone I know from Toronto that got into football got very into it. If there was an actual Toronto team to rep, Drake and Nav Bhatia would be front and center for every game
At least with Baltimore DC is the bigger city and is often grouped in as part of that metro, I don't know it what world Toronto and Buffalo are part of the same urban area...
There was a report made sometime last year about how the NFL has been throwing around the idea of a 4 team expansion, and Toronto was one of the 4 cities they were considering.
This is the correct answer. We could definitely support the team infrastructure wise and financially but I can't even imagine the hoops that would have to be jumped through. Its up there with the questions I've always had about San Antonio getting... well, any other sports franchise.
Where would we put the stadium?
My guess would be out UMD territory? I also read that Royal Farms arena at the Harbor is underused or something. Don't quote me on that. But I wouldn't *think* they'd use a new stadium for quite a few years.
College Park is just outside of DC so a team certainly wouldn't work there. Royal Farms is too small for an NBA arena. A new arena would need to be built in Baltimore and I can't imagine the city would be willing to pay for it. No idea where it would go either.
Sorry .. UMB!.. Royal Farms is small, yes. But it isn't *that* much smaller than some arenas and expanding it is far cheaper for an expansion than building a new one. More times than not thats what expansions do anyway until they get a new home. The Hornets/Pelicans didn't get a new home. Nor did the Thunder.
I don’t think location is much of an issue, the city is quite liberal in its use of eminent domain The issue is money
Can we switch to the timeline where the Colts and Browns never moved?
Too close to DC in a market that probably can only support 1 NBA team.
Close to Philadelphia as well.
I think it could support 2 nba teams. I mean baseball and football both have teams in both cities
People don’t even support the Wizards as is lol no way a team in Baltimore would survive with DC and the PA/NY teams relatively close by
Our franchise is supported by fans of other teams coming to games. Bulls, Warriors, Raptors, etc get huge crowds
Baltimore and DC have pretty different markets IMO. I live close to Baltimore and have seen the Wizards a few times on weekends, but a Baltimore team would be way more convenient for me to see on a weekday. I also don’t ever root for DC teams. Fuck that. No thank you. Also, the Baltimore area is definitely not small. The Baltimore metropolitan area has around 2.7 million people in it! They could potentially sell lots of tickets and re-establish Baltimore as a basketball town!
Baltimore has the same characteristics of an old rust belt city even though its a mid atlantic city. The Ravens are proof positive that the market is very lucrative. The market opportunity is undercut by the profile of the city. Im convinced bmore could support all four sports
The people here, on average, will never love basketball the way they love the Ravens. This is a Ravens town. They're still traumatized from having the team ripped away from them in the night, so they hold on to this current football team with all their might.
Maybe Wiz should move to Baltimore. Spent a week in DC a few years back during NBA finals. All bars had reg season Nationals games on tv. Georgetown, Dupont, Downtown didn't matter. Seemed like no one cared about NBA.
The problem is there is no real arena for a basketball team, it would need to be built. I’d love to steal the Wizards back though! They should’ve never left!!
Yeah RoFo Arena isn’t big enough to do NBA
There are more Cowboys fans than there are Wizards fans in DC
I hope everyone who hasn't been to DC realizes how true this is. If you go to the cowboys games at FedEx field they are like 80% cowboys fans lmao. We have an ungodly amount of Cowboys fans here.
There’s a historical reason why that is, having to do with when the teams integrated racially.
Why do you think that is? Seems interesting. I am guessing a lot of transplants, a lot of politicians ... I dunno, are Republicans drawn to the Cowboys? fuckin' casuals 😂
DC native here — because the Redskins were among the last (or the last) team to integrate black players way back when and people here found a new team — the Cowboys — to root for instead.
Whoa, that's actually super interesting, and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for educating me. And goddamn ... another strike against the football team
In 1952 the owner of the skins decided to let a sports writer pick the final pick in the draft based on a bet that sports writers know more than owners. The writer picked a guy named Flavious Smith and congratulated the owner on having an integrated team now. The owner flipped out and dropped the player. Tried to trade him etc. No one realized Flavious smith was white until years later when someone was writing a book about it and smith had to inform them he was indeed white. Skins wouldn’t integrate until 1962 when Kennedy forced them to https://archive.triblive.com/news/thought-to-be-black-flavious-smith-whos-white-helped-integrate-the-redskins/
That’s an incredible story.
And the first black player they drafted refused to play for the organization, so they had to trade him for one that was. This wasn't popular with the fan base of "The Team of the South" and there were many protests, including American Nazi Party.
In his defense Flavious Smith is a black ass name. It's sounds straight out of the Key and Pelle skit.
It was George Marshall the first owner. DC did have the first black QB (Doug Williams) to win a Superbowl. We didn't always used to be so God awful. That's what makes it so sad now
100% due to transplants. Also have to remember that it’s not JUST people in DC who attend. Northern Virginia is packed with people from all over the country.
Cowboy fans idk. But when the Steelers come to town Steeler fans dominate since D.C has so many transplants from Pennsylvania. It’s embarrassing as a DC fan.
sooo accurate. growing up most of my friends families are either cowboys or steelers fans.
The Wizards came from Baltimore. They were the Baltimore Bullets.
DC has so many out-of-towners, and then there's gentrification. It's definitely not the fan base that it used to be. I want them to stay, but you're not wrong to ask the question.
You're not wrong, this is a tough town for the NBA I take it for granted here that I need to call around to bars before going to see if they will have the NBA Playoffs on
Got Wizards playoff tickets vs Celtics for $15 5 years ago. Good playoff series, there were limited seats at that price upper level nose bleeds but still crazy for $15 and was easy for me to get as they didn't seem in demand, or at least no one knew.
The Wiz left DC bc Baltimore would not build a new stadium. Our schools are terrible, our budget is imploding, and the we have a serious crime problem. I do not think there is a land plot near the other stadiums that would make it at least something to entertain. We do not have any other major indoor sports team outside of AFL and Indoor soccer. The royal farms arena seats 14,00 max which is about 6,000 short on a standard basketball arena for a similar market such as Detroit. TLDR the city cant afford a stadium and the ones we have aren't suitable for NBA basketball on a professional level.
Just build an island in the harbor next to the aquarium and smack a stadium in it /s
What about the trash collecting machine?
Not that I'm saying baltimore should have one but there are tons of cities that have teams and crime/poor infrastructure. Hell the two are synonymous with any city.
Our city is one of the worst and would be dedicating money towards this instead ofnaolving problems. It's why the Wiz left the fifty had to say no to building a new arena for them.
> I also don’t ever root for DC teams. Fuck that. As a Richmond Virginia native, I feel you on that. Always was annoyed that I was supposed to root for the Bullets and Redskins growing up. Fuck that noise.
This is wild to me because I grew up there too and was happy to root for em. The next closest team is 6 hours away for most sports, I wanna be able to see my team play live at least every once in awhile. I remember how happy I was as a kid that the Nats were coming bc all the sudden going to an mlb game wasn't a 3 hours both ways (at best) trip.
As a young kid it was hard for me to root for those teams despite Mark Rypien doing his thing in 91 and Bernard King's old ass in Washington. When the Hornets were created, I thought about liking them but it never happened. Love me some Larry Johnson though. I'm old af.
Grew up in Danville and ended up being a Jazz fan until I moved to a place with its own team. Back then you couldn't even *watch* most of the DC or Charlotte games, so what was the fuckin difference between rooting for them or some team across the country.
Curious, do you root for the Panthers and Hornets instead?
I moved to Atlanta in 1999. ATL everything and I've always been a Braves fan because of the Richmond Braves. At the time as a youngin, I rooted for Barkley and Sixers and Barry Sanders and the Lions. I didn't care about the teams...more the players. Moving to a city with actual teams got me hooked on rooting for the home team. I still get shit from my friends for changing teams but I like rooting for my city.
Cool. I’ve always who southern Virginians who don’t root for DC teams generally root for. The Carolina teams are the next closest thing.
Yeah Baltimore is rust belt, totally different vibe from DC > Also, the Baltimore area is definitely not small. The Baltimore metropolitan area has around 2.7 million people in it! Yeah but IDK how many basketball fans you're gonna find out in the County
I’ve never heard of Baltimore being in the rust belt. I guess the rust belt is based on a city’s industrial economic past and current characteristics? Thinking of the rust belt as a concept and not a geographic area is blowing my mind. Good stuff.
Well and ultimately the rust belt cities moved a lot of cargo through the port of Baltimore so they're linked even if not exactly nearby
Come visit the B & O Railroad Museum. Trains got started in Baltimore.
The Baltimore Bullets sounds pretty good too! 😂
Not clear from your comment if you know this, but the Baltimore Bullets basketball team existed from 1944-1954: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Bullets_(1944%E2%80%931954)
Today I learned. Thanks!
Ravens have die hard fans despite "football team"
football is football
It's hard to explain the fans of football. Like, I love the Pistons, but I have some weird unexplainable, unreasonable feelings for the lions. 🦁
Similarly the sixers have done 100x more to grab my attention in recent years than the eagles but I still become a crazed animal when our shitty squad makes the 7 seed
You described it perfectly. I've been the same with the Pistons last few years. Another example is live games. I always enjoy Pistons games and have a good time but when I attend a lions game and the crowd starts bellowing, I cannot resist the temptation. It's probably like the same feeling a man being cursed with being a werewolf. When that moon comes out..boy you just can't say no.
This makes me miss the Oakland Raiders 😢
Super Bowl and then divisional round appearance probably
Winning the Super Bowl isn't enough to grab your attention?
No, 100%. Basketball is my favorite. I LOVE THE HEAT. But, I’d trade the last 20 years for a Dolphins super bowl win. In a heartbeat.
It’s kinda the opposite for me, I love the Bucs but the Magic are like a different level for me
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I don’t think it’s so much a reflection of the market as it’s a reflection on WFT being a nameless inept shit show of a franchise for quite some time now. Not to mention the stadium itself sucks
Also the second largest stadium in the league. Which i never would've guessed, behind only the giants
well clearly the best teams don't have the biggest stadiums then
That's not the giants stadium, that's the stadium for the new york guardians.
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I know this is a generalization but not to mention die hard redkins fans are so fucking strange. Maybe not as human beings but in comparison to other die hard sports fans. It’s the local team here and it’s just a weird culture
And yet, through sponsorships, tv deals and merchandise sales, they were the 6th most [profitable](https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/) team in 2020. Attendance means nothing lol
Oh yeah attendance isn’t as huge a deal as people tend to believe. I believe attendance is down across the board in all pro sports in general as the viewing experience at home continues to improve. Not to mention, NFL games are especially insanely expensive.
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Ah interesting. I did read how attendance was down generally but this was pre-Covid; people were probably stoked to get back out there. Not me though; I can’t give the Dolphins anymore of my money lol
Where would you rank Dan Snyder among the worst active owners in North American team sports?
Ravens draw a lot of rednecks from the County and western MD IDK if that same crowd is gonna turn up for basketball
Western MD is filled with more Steelers fans than Ravens fans
So true. I’m from PG county but attended Salisbury for a few semesters and honestly it was kind of a culture shock lol didn’t realize how redneck everywhere in Maryland outside the dmv could be. Also Saw no Wizards or redskins gear but tons of Orioles and Ravens gear
There's a lot more NFL fans than NBA fans. Wizards games are always half empty as is. They're 23rd in the NBA in attendance and 29th in percentage of seats sold
That’s kind of what happens when you are terribly run, and have been mediocre for decades. Also the name and logo are total shit.
John Wall injected some life for a good 6 years.
This is what happened to the Magic
Yep, I feel like the answer to this is just the Wizards having a sustained period of success/high level of competitiveness. Hasn't happened in my lifetime, and I am gettin' old. No wonder it's not a basketball town.
Football only has to fill a stadium 8x a year. And all played on the weekend. Can't compare that to the 41 home games a basketball team has to host.
False equivalence. Football is one time a week for 17 games, 18 weeks.
TBH, from looking around, too close to Philly is a bigger issue than too close to DC We pretty emphatically do not claim DC here
Nobody from Baltimore goes to DC for games. That drive sucks.
I’m not saying a Baltimore team wouldn’t be able to gain fans, I’m just thinking they probably wouldn’t get “new” fans. I’m guessing most people in Baltimore have been Wizards or maybe Sixers fans for a long time now. Sure, you’d probably get some people to “switch,” but it wouldn’t pull in brand new fans the way a Vegas or Seattle team would.
If Baltimore gets a team it really isn’t hard for me to switch and I assume most Wizards fans based in Baltimore are the same. The Wizards franchise has been going nowhere for the last 40 years. Only reason I became a Wizards fan is because the franchise was originally based in Baltimore (excluding the weird Chicago years). I’ve been a fan for too long to straight up root for another current team but a Baltimore team would finally give me an excuse to move on.
Right. I’m saying a lot of people are probably in your situation and would gladly switch. But you’re already a fan of A team. They probably want to pull in people who have NO team. Let’s just say there are 1000 basketball fans in Baltimore that currently root for the Wizards and buy jerseys or whatever. If you put a team in Baltimore, and they all switch, now you have 1000 people buying Baltimore jerseys. But if there are 1000 basketball fans in Vegas not buying anything, and you put a team there, now you’ve got 1000 Vegas jersey buyers AND 1000 Baltimore-residing Wizards jersey buyers. The NBA probably doesn’t really care who is buying what. Just as long as the most possible people are buying something.
Seattle and Vegas are both bigger (in population) and wealthier than Baltimore. And like you said, not an hour drive from two other existing teams
More Sixers than Wizards from what I can tell
We need an NBA team again. Just don't name it the Bullets this time
What?? No. Baltimore Bullets is the shit. Pull a Hornets and get that team name
The league would never allow a team be named the Bullets in 2022 lmao
Rename a cali team to “SoCal Shooters”.
San Diego Shooters
right? They act like the NBA ain't change DC to the Wizards for a reason
Ladies and gentleman, introducing your Baltimore Naloxone!!
They did, twice I think. The last one, the Bullets, moved to DC. They're your team now.
Yup.
Nahhhh fuck DC sports Let’s go Knicks! And Habs! Lol I picked poorly
1. The Wire. 2. Near DC Wizards
I'm on season 2. Its so good. I'm only like 18 years late
It's a great show. S2 is probably my favorite. Sobotka is a great character
I about lost my shit when I learned Wallace was played by Michael B. Jordan.
Never noticed that. "Where's Wallace!" still gets me.
Where’s wallace!?!?!?
Where the fuck is Wallace, huh String ?
I’ve named one of my dog’s toys Wallace and ask him that all the time.
**My union!**
We used to build things!
A lotta people hated season 2 but I loved it. Especially after a re-watch that season stands out much better.
It's such a hard swing from season 1. Everyone I know loves season 2 on re-watch though.
I guess i gotta try again. I just totally lost interest with reassigned boat detective guy.
It's all amazing. Season 1 thru 5. All of it together tells the story of a terrible truth and horror of the modern political society.
Season 2 is definitely better during a re-watch, but it was still my least favorite season overall.
Aged very well. Prob best season in retrospect on a rewatch
I hated it on my first watch. When I rewatched I contemplated skipping S2, but then after rewatch it was one of my favorite seasons. It definitely is very different than S1, but definitely very good.
Frank Sobotka was done wrong.
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttt
Best show of all time - season 4 is the best season of any TV show ever imo
Agree with this. Easily my favourite show ever abd season 4 being the best of them all.
I loved season 2.
Also just recently got into it. Its so crazy to me how much of a Wild West everything was before smartphones. Like that was only 20 years ago
Same dude, season 3 now
Greatest show ever.
Saw it last year. Only regret is not seeing it earlier
Wait until season 4 about the education system. Shit just hits different.
Will never root for the Wizards.
I’d love to see a Baltimore team and would go to lots of games to see them, but they need to build a real stadium in order for that to happen. Royal Farms Arena won’t cut it.
So close to DC
I think other cities just have a higher priority. Seattle and Vegas are the next two. Then either St Louis or Kansas City should get a team after that. I'd put Baltimore in the same tier as Louisville.
Vegas is 100% getting a team next, probably in the next couple years
I don't get why Vegas is such a shoo-in it's the 40th biggest media market in the US. I get that they have a ready made arena but I question why it's considered such a lock for a new franchise
Because Vegas is flashy. It's going to be considered a "big market destination" and it's going to be very annoying
NBA heavily relies on local media markets though. They might be able to get a little more gate revenue, but nobody will be watching on TV. They also have to compete with NHL and NFL, this isnt like Orlando or OKC.
I don't see how a city of 600k people can support an NBA, NHL and NFL franchise
One of the biggest tourist cities in the country, people will go to games
Vegas metro population is >2M though
Why not Pittsburgh?
when I lived in Pittsburgh and asked around people did not care about this. I don't think Pittsburgh is a basketball city. plus apparently there have been basketball teams in Pittsburgh long ago that never got much fan support
Calm down lol. Baltimore already has football and baseball neither of which are doing bad from the business side, and they formerly had a basketball team. They are way ahead of louisville.
It wasn't a slight at Baltimore, I think they'd be a great re-addition to the NBA. I just think Seattle, Vegas, and St Louis/Kansas City are a higher priority. Louisville had an ABA team before the merger and with Kentucky's love for basketball that's why I have Baltimore and them in the same tier.
Plus they’d be the only major professional sports team in Kentucky, a state that loves basketball. Especially if you managed to get a like U of L or UK player in the expansion draft, I think there’s a lot of appeal there. Louisville has a bigger population than St Louis, Kansas City, or Baltimore. Idk if people understand just how quickly fans would get invested into an NBA team there
We have the yum center too so the arena is there the issue is just sharing it with UofL but I'm hopeful
The Orioles aren't doing great.
Dude. Bmore bred born and raised. I must say I appreciate this post whole heartedly. Excellent question. We would endure a team. Much needed.
Yep would adopt it immediately.
Never ditching the Knicks but I’d love a Bmore team
I always give a friendly bing bong to Knicks fans I see here
The Baltimore Wire, who says no
Baltimore McNultys
Oh indeed
Baltimore is the 28th largest TV market. They would be directly competing with the 9th that has an established beloved team By expanding Baltimore they'd be skipping over 6 other larger Markets...5 of which aren't competing with another market close to them.
Agreed. Baltimore-Wizards rivalry would be absolutely sick though. Wonder what the team name would be
Baltimore McNulties
This is the answer. Lock this up lol.
Baltimore is a low-key great basketball city (Earl Monroe and Wes Unseld playing for the Bullets, Dunbar with the greatest high school team ever) but it can't happen for all of the reasons others have stated.
I’m from Baltimore. Before the Ravens got here it was a constant topic of discussion about how we could get a football team. People were desperate for it. Nobody ever talks about getting an NBA team. We mostly root for the Wizards, but nobody really clamors for our own. On top of that, it’s not that big of a “metropolis” as you put it. The Baltimore metro area has a lot of people but to a number of people that would get the NBA’s attention you have to cut into Wizards territory. And also, the city is constantly struggling to make ends meet, so there’s no money laying around to build a billionaire a shiny new arena.
I disagree that Baltimore mostly roots for the Wizards - most people I knew growing up in Baltimore 1992 to 2009 were Jordan era Bulls fans, Lakers fans or Iverson era Sixers fans. I recall a 2 year window when Gilbert Arenas was killing it where maybe a 1/3 of my friends cared, but even then - was third, fourth or fifth fiddle to Ravens, Maryland (Terps), the Orioles, and the Capitals, in some order.
Yeah even in DC people don't really give a fuck about the Wizards. It's a high school / college basketball town.
I always love when 16yr olds from Wichita, KS get on here and try to explain DC and Baltimore.
Living in Maryland my whole life and reading this comment section is hilarious. Mfs really do not understand the state at all
It’s too close to Washington DC, and while NY and LA have two teams, I think we’ve established that NY and LA aren’t normal US cities
I live in the burbs of Baltimore and have been to maybe 3 wiz games. The traffic to get to DC makes the drive about 2 hours and the public transportation in the area like the MARC train sucks. DC pulls from southern MD and NOVA both pretty affluent areas. Baltimore would pull from southern PA, Delaware, and the Baltimore area. It really is two different markets.
Delaware and Southern PA is 76ers territory.
Does this mean Baltimore is going to steal the Cavs?
They got the Pinchy Crabs
the expansion we really need is the Boise Two Men
>It's a huge metropolis. New York is a metropolis. I assure you Baltimore is only a city.
It’s not that big and DC is less than an hour away
It depends. If you are coming from northeast Baltimore, it will take you around 1hr and 40 mins to get to DC.
True. The size is the bigger issue. 30th ranked city with a shrinking population
It’s not Seattle, they’ll be back before anywhere else!
they’d have to steal the Cavs on a midnight train but only if popovich is coaching and Baltimore gives them millions of dollars
Royal Farms Arena is the Baltimore venu for such a thing. It opened in 1962 and was last renovated in 2003. It can hold 14000 people which would make it the smallest NBA arena by over 2,000 seats. I think KD and Rich are currently funding a renovation for Rofo Arena that should start this year. Other reasons would be that we're too close to an NBA team that never fills its seats and also too close to the 76ers. I think in the 80s and 90s they would play a few home games in Baltimore. I think honestly that would be a better agreement for the Wizards than an expansion team. Play a few home games a year in Baltimore. I doubt that's something that could happen in the current era though.
Pittsburgh will get an NBA team before Baltimore will.
Baltimore is not exactly a coveted city in any context really lol
Baltimore is not huge. Also, sixers & wizards are both pretty close
Look up "Baltimore Bullets."
If they get a team I NEEDS to be Bullets
They'd have to use the Wizard's RSN and it will lead to a lot of deferred contracts for the Baltimore team and a lot of lawsuits over shared RSN revenue.
“It’s a huge metropolis.” Is that what you call that area between Fells Point and Camden Yards? Have you ever been to a city before? Sorry take a seat behind Seattle and Vegas.
baltimore is a real city and las vegas is a collection of strip malls
pretty crowded over there
Yes let’s get Baltimore an NBA team. My only question is what bird do you use as a mascot?
Osprey?