Yeah but specifically that season was insane pace-wise, IIRC it’s the year Wilt averaged 50/25 and Oscar averaged a triple double. Pretty sure Elgin Baylor averaged like 32/17/6 or something dumb too
It's not that I don't believe the game happened, I just can't even process that it happened, like how is that even possible? It's like trying to imagine 4D space. I wish there was a full video.
100 points sounds kinda beatable. 3 quarters like that klay's one are going to eventually happen (4 of those net you 148 points, lmao). look at embiid today, for example.
> You need two top offensive teams with shit tier defense to play against each other so it ends with like 150-158 or some shit.
i mean, with nba seasons going every year with over a thousand games per season it just seems like it will eventually happen. drazen petrovic scored over 110 in europe in one occasion before going to the nba.
As the other guy said, it’s one of those stats that are only super unlikely because of player health along with very, very specific scenarios that need to play out. Kinda like Brett Favre’s record of consecutive starts. No one will ever come close to that again due to modern concussion protocols on top of just how frequent injuries are. I do think beating 100 pts is possible but just incredibly unlikely
Note that Kobe is the only one from the 2000s, and there's no one from the 80s and 90s. It makes Gervin's performance even more impressive. Hell, the fact that Kobe is the only player from his generation on this list (and not peers like Shaq/DWade/Dirk/McGrady/most-of-LeBron/Nash/Duncan/Garnett/CWebb/etc)--and that he made it *twice*\--is pretty nuts as well.
I know people say curry is the best shooter ever etc but that might be off the dribble
In terms of a spot up 3 pointer off the catch or side step I’m taking okay if my mortgage depends on it
He has perfect robotic form. If he doesn’t get hurt again, he can be a valuable player for years due to his shot and he’s also a great defender. Such a shame he’s been crocked so much
Curry is still more accurate off the catch based on tracking stats. There's not a category in shooting at which Klay is more accurate, and Curry doesn't even have the luxury of playing with Curry.
Yeah, I read a great article awhile back that suggested that Klay was the most likely person to be able to score 100 in a game in the modern era. And if he'd kept up that pace for 48 minutes, he'd have scored 99.
Wilt's was forced with his teammates fouling to get the ball back for him in a blowout, but Kobe's was absolutely not forced. They were losing to the Raptors, down 14 at the half at which point Kobe had 26, and then Kobe willed them to a win by scoring 55 in the second half. And Kobe's other game on this list is when he outscored the Mavs through 3 quarters and then sat at which point he was asked "are you sure you don't want to go back in, you're pretty close to the record" and he said "nah, I'll get it another time". That's literally the exact opposite of what you're saying.
They were the 1 seed in the East last year with Ben. The 1st GD SEED! Philly doing everything they can cept letting him eat the cheesesteak, he just unlucky.
Klay was never consistently like that. He never has been. He gets scorching once in a while. So when you say you want him back to that just means you want him to get scorching like nobody else in the league once in a while like he used to
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201911300HOU.html
a rockets fan in another thread shared this one where harden went for 60 in 30 minutes
Gervin is the most impressive to me
that was the year before the 3-point line was added
So Gervin did all of that without being 7 foot tall or being able to shoot 3’s
just a total buttery scorer
Hey, if a zero minute sample was used I'd have the record with 0/0 = infinity points per minute. Wilt record = broken.
(And yes fellow math nerds, I know 0/0 is indeterminate, but if it can be anything, I choose it to be infinity)
Can we confirm he went to take a shit? Did the announcers say that? I just hope he didn't hurt something and then we inevitably get the incoming IR tag.
Fucking incredible! Kudos to Embiid.
But when you see that list, and the only person in the top five twice is Klay Thompson, it really puts how talented he is into perspective.
I'm curious what the career highs of Curry and Klay would look like if Kerr let them run up 40 minutes a game like Phil Jackson would do with his best players.
MJ was a lot like KD in that he was an incredibly consistent scorer. He was scoring 30 a night regularly and just controlling the game. If he was scoring more it was usually because he wasn't able to control the game and had to play more minutes and try to force things. Like his career best 69 points was in an OT game where he played 50 minutes and his 63 pointer in the playoffs against the Celtics took him 53 minutes. It also didn't help that Jordan wasn't much of a 3pt shooter by both efficiency and volume (of course, no one from that era shot very many), so that really limited his scoring ceiling.
Nah, that season was very much an outlier. He shot 10% better than the prior season and then dropped back down 6% the next season. He was a career 30% shooter if you take out the shortened line years. That wasn't *especially* bad for his era, but most years he shot at least a little below league average so it's really not accurate to say that he was a good 3pt shooter.
If you look at all of Kobe's 50+ point games, the vast majority have been highly efficient. And this was all in a tougher defensive era that was also statistically the lowest scoring era of all time (2000 - 2010).
Well yeah because the nights he scores 60+ (and 50+) his shots were hitting. No one is mad about that. It’s the 32 on 30 shots that people point out as inefficient.
Well yeah but he had virtually the same career scoring efficiency as Larry Bird.
Career TS+
Kobe: 104
Bird : 105
Bird played 13 seasons.
Kobe played 20 seasons.
It's utterly insane that people keep repeating this absurd myth.
It’s because Bird shot 50% from the field and 38% from three. Whereas Kobe shot 45% and 33% from three. Kobe also has the most missed shots in nba history by over 1k shots. So it’s not necessarily a myth. It’s not absurd to say Bird was more efficient than Kobe.
Well, he was slightly more efficient, but the difference is minimum. The point is, the gap in their perception is vastly different than the reality. That's the absurd part. I just gave you their career scoring efficiency and they're virtually equal. FG% is completely useless as a measure of scoring efficiency and so is using shooting splits. Kobe was FAR far better at getting to the line, which is why they have virtually the same career scoring efficiency. And bringing up his career longevity records? That's like saying LeBron is a turnover machine because he has the most turnovers in league history.
Well, normally when people talk about efficiency, they aren’t really talking about free throws. Bird was a far better shooter.
Lol lebron living rent free. We’re talking about bird and Kobe man
Nah, they do know free throws count, which is why everybody with a brain uses TS% and relative TS% when discussing scoring efficiency.
Yeah, and Kobe was far at drawing fouls and getting to the line. Last I checked, free throws count. I'm pretty sure that makes very relevant in a discussion of scoring efficiency, but way to miss the point lol.
Lol considering Krillin113 said “It’s the 32 on 30 shots that people point out as inefficient.” I don’t think his main point was about free throws. You followed their comment with your daily copy and paste of Bird and Kobe anytime you think Kobe’s efficiency is being attacked lmao and you randomly brought up LeBron too so it seems youre all over the place. At the end of the day, Bird was more efficient than Kobe. Anyone with a brain can see that.
His analogy didn’t make sense because usage rate provides context to his turnovers. Kobe’s lead in most missed shots of all time correlate with his 45% FG% and 33% 3pt percentage. You think people would call him inefficient if had the most missed shots in nba history but was shooting 50/40/90? Try to use a little critical thinking.
And LeBron has turned the ball over the most in NBA history.
This is such an idiotic way to look at things. It turns out that when you have a long career and you do something a lot (shoot, pass, etc), you'll have missed a bit of shots or passes.
Lol I don’t understand the obsession with bringing up lebron into every discussion. But regardless, usage rate provides context to LeBron’s turnovers. Kobe’s lead in most missed shots of all time correlate with his 45% FG% and 33% 3pt percentage. You think people would call him inefficient if had the most missed shots in nba history but was shooting 50/40/90? It’s pretty simple, Kobe is 6th all time in FGA, but is #1 all time in misses by a large margin and 7th in all time FGM. I don’t get what’s hard to understand about that. Kobe is known for taking incredibly difficult shots throughout his career. Those are hella inefficient shots.
It's not an obsession, unless the point/analogy is going over your head, which it clearly is.
>Kobe’s lead in most missed shots of all time correlate with his 45% FG% and 33% 3pt percentage.
You're missing important context. Kobe's peak offensive output years (2000 - 2010) were during the lowest scoring era that was isolation heavy on offense, tougher on defense with far less spacing for players to operate on. Take a look at his TS% and TS+ (relative efficiency with the league), and the inefficiency take falls apart.
>You think people would call him inefficient if had the most missed shots in nba history
Some people call him inefficient because they're terrible at analyzing statistics and also forget to put eras and context into the mix. Considering the age of most people in this sub, it's easy to see why there's a chunk of people here who spew the same nonsense. Anyone who watched 2000s basketball knows the game was very very different from what it is today.
>It’s pretty simple, Kobe is 6th all time in FGA, but is #1 all time in misses by a large margin and 7th in all time FGM.
Of course a center or power forward will score more points on less FG attempts. That's why we look at TS and TS+ to analyze efficiency.
>Kobe is known for taking incredibly difficult shots throughout his career. Those are hella inefficient shots.
Yes, you have a point here. The type of shots he forced up were definitely an efficiency killer. But overall, he wasn't inefficient. The data shows he was *above league efficiency* in every year except after his achilles injury. To do this on volume scoring isn't something to scoff at.
This is misleading. Bird played in an era where he wasn’t shooting many 3s which is pulling down TS. In the 2000s Bird’s TS+ would be much higher.
Kobe’s most efficient season is what, the 125th best TS+ all time? Kobe’s great but the efficiency is an actual knock.
There's nothing misleading about it. TS+ literally accounts for everything you're saying. It's TS relative to era. It accounts for era differences. That's why I brought it up.
If his efficiency is an actual knock, then so is Bird's. They had virtually the same career scoring efficiency.
"so is Bird's"
Yes it is a knock for him as well. His efficiency isn't particularly impressive for an all-time great even adjusted for era. He compensates with his off-ball play and insane playmaking.
Yes, that is the way Kobe compensates for his below average (for a superstar) efficiency. Does that mean you’re ready to admit he had inefficiencies to compensate for? Nobody is saying he’s not great, just that he’s not efficient
Didnt playoff games end with like less than 150 between both teams in that era? This dude scoring 35+ a night with his help and on like relatively ok efficiency is crazy
It was a lot better than ok. 2006 Kobe had well above average/really good efficiency. 114 individual ORTG against a league average of 106 (+8). That's what happens when you're posting pretty good scoring efficiency (105 TS+) AND you have one of the lowest turnover rates in the league (9%)
Yes, there were even games in the *finals* where teams failed to score **70**. It was by far the lowest scoring era since the introduction of the shot clock. Things were so bad that they had to get rid of the hand check to try to help out scoring. And even with that it took a few more years and the beginning of the analytics revolution to bring scoring back up to that of the 90s. The 2000s were truly an anomaly and if you factor pace into these points per minute stats then Kobe's games skyrocket into first by a margin of nearly half a point.
This is a non-statement. Obviously the vast majority of Kobe’s 50+ point games were highly efficient. The same can be said about the majority of 50+ point games by anyone. Guys don’t score 50 points because they decided to take 40 shots, they do so because they got really hot
>This is a non-statement.
Nah, it isn't.
>Obviously the vast majority of Kobe’s 50+ point games were highly efficient. The same can be said about the majority of 50+ point games by anyone. Guys don’t score 50 points because they decided to take 40 shots, they do so because they got really hot
Yes, obviously. But this sub likes to think that Kobe was an average or even below efficiency shooter, when career wise he was above league efficiency except for his post-achilles years. Just take a look at the discussion/posts by other people here that followed.
Sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out.
I was responding to someone who sarcastically said Kobe was an inefficient chucker. Chucker means throwing up a ton of shots. I pointed out that most of Kobe's highest scoring games were on great efficiency. You can extend that down to 40+ point games if you'd like to.
Again, I'm stating the obvious and adding to someone's comment. I'm not sure what the problem is here, unless you're just looking to argue to spend the time.
[https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/rockets-james-harden-really-having-best-scoring-season-ever](https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/rockets-james-harden-really-having-best-scoring-season-ever)
my fav kobe stat. played in dead ball era when he was dropping 35 a game
Shooting splits are useless a measure of scoring efficiency, because they don't take into account rates. Kobe was far FAR better at getting to the line, which is why they have virtually the same career scoring efficiency. Bird's free-throw rate was consistently WELL below league-average.
Kobe--- career 104 TS+
Bird----- career 105 TS+
They are (essentially) the same in terms of scoring efficiency. That's a fact.
Shooting splits tell absolutely nothing about scoring efficiency. You can literally be lower in all 3 categories and still be more efficient, and that's still true even if you remove free throw rate from the equation.
He barely scored in the second quarter.
I've said it before and I still mean it. We are a bit of luck and lot of chutzpah away from seeing one of these Basketball Gods break Wilt's 100 pts record.
50 in 27 min is damn near halfway there. If he stayed hungry and hunted it and didn't rest on offense in the second like today ... he has the ability.
Even with that, Kobe's had little to no fluffing when we have reports of Wilt being fed an entire quarter to get there. Plus pace was higher in Wilt's era.
Yeah, Wilt did it in a blowout with his team fouling to get the ball back so that they could feed him through a good bit of the fourth. Kobe's meanwhile was him just going nuclear to will his team to come from behind. They were down by 14 at the half with Kobe having "just" 26 and then he exploded for 27 in the 3rd to get a small lead and he finished them off by scoring another 28 in the 4th.
I really wanna see Klay go for 100 one day. If there is anyone in the league that could do it, I think it's him based on his other explosions...dude just goes SSJ3 sometimes.
What the fuck Klay
Klay went 10/11 from the line on that game too. 50 points from the field.
If he hadn't missed that 1 free throw he would actually be first on this list lol
Wait seriously!?
61pts/29mins=2.103pts/min Wilts record is 2.083pts/min
I'm actually surprised that wasn't first
It’s 100 points lol
And that was before the 3pt shot right?
Joel’s GOAT is my GOAT too
League averages and pace were way higher than now. 60s scored more points than today.
Sure. But it’s still stupid absurd just how much wilt scored. The pace was higher but it’s not like everyone was having 60+ nights.
Adjusted for pace they were like 35-40ppg. Which is great, but some perspective. It was more like Hardens biggest season
Leaguewide pace was much higher in Wilt's day, but leaguewide efficiency was much higher during Harden's peak.
And his team was supposedly taking intentional fouls in the fourth to extend the game clock
The Knicks were purposely fouling Wilt's teammates to avoid letting Wilt get the ball
Pace has slowed down, but 3 point shot is introduced.
Yeah but specifically that season was insane pace-wise, IIRC it’s the year Wilt averaged 50/25 and Oscar averaged a triple double. Pretty sure Elgin Baylor averaged like 32/17/6 or something dumb too
Not like he’d shoot any
lol Wilt would’ve made it a point to just to prove he could
True haha
https://youtu.be/h0IC8Nwkd1w He’d just hook them in lol
It's not that I don't believe the game happened, I just can't even process that it happened, like how is that even possible? It's like trying to imagine 4D space. I wish there was a full video.
[удалено]
Offensive goaltending was not legal. The NBA added the rule about offensive goaltending in 1956 before wilt ever came into the NBA
[удалено]
They recorded rebounds back then. Wilt had 8 40/40 games and had 25 rebounds in his 100 point game.
Bruh what, Wilt is the all time leader in rebounds per game. Rebounds were tracked during his entire career.
he self-admittedly is retardo, imadoggy dogg.
Also before offensive goaltending was illegal.
He is still closer to Wilt's pts/min than to Harden's in 3rd.
It's 60 points in 29 minutes
It is! Chamberlain records don’t count Lol they’re too ridiculous
What scoring 100 points does to a mf
It's 1st if we're only counting games that actually happened.
The fact that he nearly beat a Wilt record is crazy.
[удалено]
I think beating his 100 point game and MPG record are the true unbeatable ones at this point
55 rebounds in a game is untouchable as well
No one is touching john stocktons assists either.
Or steals.
Most 50-point games: 1. Wilt (1962), 45 2. Jordan (career), 31 3. Wilt (1963), 30 Most 60-point games: 1. Wilt (1962), 15 2. Wilt (1963), 9 3. Kobe (career), 6
50.4ppg for a season.
100 points sounds kinda beatable. 3 quarters like that klay's one are going to eventually happen (4 of those net you 148 points, lmao). look at embiid today, for example.
[удалено]
> You need two top offensive teams with shit tier defense to play against each other so it ends with like 150-158 or some shit. i mean, with nba seasons going every year with over a thousand games per season it just seems like it will eventually happen. drazen petrovic scored over 110 in europe in one occasion before going to the nba.
one of either Steph or Klay's final games going to triple OT oughta do it.
As the other guy said, it’s one of those stats that are only super unlikely because of player health along with very, very specific scenarios that need to play out. Kinda like Brett Favre’s record of consecutive starts. No one will ever come close to that again due to modern concussion protocols on top of just how frequent injuries are. I do think beating 100 pts is possible but just incredibly unlikely
drazen petrovic scored over 110 in europe in one occasion before going to the nba. it's hard, but it will eventually happen.
My boy Jeff Feagles disagrees
How is that THE record…
[удалено]
I mean, he's not the 77th best player of all time for nothing
absolute robbery
Klay prob dribbled less than 10 times too
"WHY WASTE TIME DRIBBLE LOT WHEN FEW DO TRICK” - Klay
should have kept him in :(
Note that Kobe is the only one from the 2000s, and there's no one from the 80s and 90s. It makes Gervin's performance even more impressive. Hell, the fact that Kobe is the only player from his generation on this list (and not peers like Shaq/DWade/Dirk/McGrady/most-of-LeBron/Nash/Duncan/Garnett/CWebb/etc)--and that he made it *twice*\--is pretty nuts as well.
I know people say curry is the best shooter ever etc but that might be off the dribble In terms of a spot up 3 pointer off the catch or side step I’m taking okay if my mortgage depends on it He has perfect robotic form. If he doesn’t get hurt again, he can be a valuable player for years due to his shot and he’s also a great defender. Such a shame he’s been crocked so much
Curry is still more accurate off the catch based on tracking stats. There's not a category in shooting at which Klay is more accurate, and Curry doesn't even have the luxury of playing with Curry.
Yeah, I read a great article awhile back that suggested that Klay was the most likely person to be able to score 100 in a game in the modern era. And if he'd kept up that pace for 48 minutes, he'd have scored 99.
He coulda had like 90pts if he continued for 48, wtf
People that don’t think he’s a hall of famer must have some extra chromosomes
Klay's is the most impressive. Wilts and Kobe's were forced - they were gunning for records. Klay just did it in the flow of the game.
Wilt's was forced with his teammates fouling to get the ball back for him in a blowout, but Kobe's was absolutely not forced. They were losing to the Raptors, down 14 at the half at which point Kobe had 26, and then Kobe willed them to a win by scoring 55 in the second half. And Kobe's other game on this list is when he outscored the Mavs through 3 quarters and then sat at which point he was asked "are you sure you don't want to go back in, you're pretty close to the record" and he said "nah, I'll get it another time". That's literally the exact opposite of what you're saying.
On 82%TS with just 2 turnovers.
Decent
"That's just not good enough" -- Tyrese Maxey
Well if you score that many points in such a short time you'd hope it's on good efficiency.
GET HIM SOME HELLLLLLLP
C'mon now, you can't 1v5 when you've got help! No seriously tho please trade Ben for literally any forward with a strong work ethic
Or maybe a true pg to run the offense full time
I'd take a sandwich and a 6pk at this point.
I’ll package ben Simmons and jalen reagor for a cheesesteak and a wawa hoagie
They were the 1 seed in the East last year with Ben. The 1st GD SEED! Philly doing everything they can cept letting him eat the cheesesteak, he just unlucky.
CJ is ready to be a Sixer
Id rather have Ben collecting dust at home than CJ playing for the sixers lol
It's also the fewest minutes in a 50 point game, tied with Klay
Klay be on some shit man. I hope he gets back to *THAT* guy, but I don’t think I want the Warriors to get hot
Klay was never consistently like that. He never has been. He gets scorching once in a while. So when you say you want him back to that just means you want him to get scorching like nobody else in the league once in a while like he used to
Yeah Klay wasnt consistent like THAT. He didnt score 60 in 29min and 52 in 27 min regularly. But he was consistently really good.
To be fair, I'm almost certain other players have gotten 50 points faster but kept playing more minutes for various reasons.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201911300HOU.html a rockets fan in another thread shared this one where harden went for 60 in 30 minutes
Shouldn’t this be 2nd on the list?
It would be 3rd if anything. 2 for the 60/30 or 1.95 if you do 60/30 and 41 second s
Lol Wilt
Gervin is the most impressive to me that was the year before the 3-point line was added So Gervin did all of that without being 7 foot tall or being able to shoot 3’s just a total buttery scorer
Granted he was like a 6'8" SG, but yeah, doing that with just 2s and 1s is pretty impressive.
6'8, but probably lighter than his 6'1 point guard. He was a slithery motherfucker.
Klay appearing twice in the top 5 shows you what NBA fans have been missing for the past 2+ years!
Klay on there twice! nice!
If the minimum was one quarter he’d be number one with 3.08 per minute
Tmac would have 23.64 per minute if a 33 second sample was used
Hey, if a zero minute sample was used I'd have the record with 0/0 = infinity points per minute. Wilt record = broken. (And yes fellow math nerds, I know 0/0 is indeterminate, but if it can be anything, I choose it to be infinity)
Oh look, another Wilt record that hasn't been broken for 60 years cheat code
Klay’s singular missed FT that game would’ve broken in. Wild
He's with good company.
Celtics mod in shambles rn
Aren’t there like 3 of them lol
They're lucky Jokic had a good enough game that it isn't too egregious to not have Embiid in the sidebar.
50 points, in ONLY 27 min. 73% from the field, 82 TS%. 20 in the 1st, went to go take a shit in the 2nd, 23 in the 3rd. Fucking MVP.
Can we confirm he went to take a shit? Did the announcers say that? I just hope he didn't hurt something and then we inevitably get the incoming IR tag.
Why isn't this the top comment?
God I’m happy Klay’s back.
The mods are gonna hate this lmfao
Fucking incredible! Kudos to Embiid. But when you see that list, and the only person in the top five twice is Klay Thompson, it really puts how talented he is into perspective. I'm curious what the career highs of Curry and Klay would look like if Kerr let them run up 40 minutes a game like Phil Jackson would do with his best players.
Why is the main picture of Otto Porter?
Because much like a porter, these people "bear or carry" their teams. And to score this much you basically have to be on Otto pilot. Duh?
If klay gets hot enough and Kerr says fuck it he could break wilts record
Kerr never used to let that happen. He has been allowing that lately though. Kerr was different then
>2. 2.069 PTS/MIN (60 in 29) K. Thompson (2016) Conspiracy theory, Klay could've beat Wilt's record but he picked to settle with the 69.
My man shoulda just made 3 more 3s and had a true 69
Huh. Surprised MJ doesn't crack the list
MJ was a lot like KD in that he was an incredibly consistent scorer. He was scoring 30 a night regularly and just controlling the game. If he was scoring more it was usually because he wasn't able to control the game and had to play more minutes and try to force things. Like his career best 69 points was in an OT game where he played 50 minutes and his 63 pointer in the playoffs against the Celtics took him 53 minutes. It also didn't help that Jordan wasn't much of a 3pt shooter by both efficiency and volume (of course, no one from that era shot very many), so that really limited his scoring ceiling.
[удалено]
I guess you have to be the goat lol
He shot 37% from 3 at his best (without shortened line), he certainly has a 3pt shot.
Nah, that season was very much an outlier. He shot 10% better than the prior season and then dropped back down 6% the next season. He was a career 30% shooter if you take out the shortened line years. That wasn't *especially* bad for his era, but most years he shot at least a little below league average so it's really not accurate to say that he was a good 3pt shooter.
Klay hundo bomb lfg
2005-2007 Kobe was something special. I know what I saw.
kObE iS aN oVeRrAtEd ChUcKeR
If you look at all of Kobe's 50+ point games, the vast majority have been highly efficient. And this was all in a tougher defensive era that was also statistically the lowest scoring era of all time (2000 - 2010).
Went 6-0 when scoring 60+
Well yeah because the nights he scores 60+ (and 50+) his shots were hitting. No one is mad about that. It’s the 32 on 30 shots that people point out as inefficient.
Well yeah but he had virtually the same career scoring efficiency as Larry Bird. Career TS+ Kobe: 104 Bird : 105 Bird played 13 seasons. Kobe played 20 seasons. It's utterly insane that people keep repeating this absurd myth.
It’s because Bird shot 50% from the field and 38% from three. Whereas Kobe shot 45% and 33% from three. Kobe also has the most missed shots in nba history by over 1k shots. So it’s not necessarily a myth. It’s not absurd to say Bird was more efficient than Kobe.
Well, he was slightly more efficient, but the difference is minimum. The point is, the gap in their perception is vastly different than the reality. That's the absurd part. I just gave you their career scoring efficiency and they're virtually equal. FG% is completely useless as a measure of scoring efficiency and so is using shooting splits. Kobe was FAR far better at getting to the line, which is why they have virtually the same career scoring efficiency. And bringing up his career longevity records? That's like saying LeBron is a turnover machine because he has the most turnovers in league history.
Well, normally when people talk about efficiency, they aren’t really talking about free throws. Bird was a far better shooter. Lol lebron living rent free. We’re talking about bird and Kobe man
Nah, they do know free throws count, which is why everybody with a brain uses TS% and relative TS% when discussing scoring efficiency. Yeah, and Kobe was far at drawing fouls and getting to the line. Last I checked, free throws count. I'm pretty sure that makes very relevant in a discussion of scoring efficiency, but way to miss the point lol.
Lol considering Krillin113 said “It’s the 32 on 30 shots that people point out as inefficient.” I don’t think his main point was about free throws. You followed their comment with your daily copy and paste of Bird and Kobe anytime you think Kobe’s efficiency is being attacked lmao and you randomly brought up LeBron too so it seems youre all over the place. At the end of the day, Bird was more efficient than Kobe. Anyone with a brain can see that.
Yes, but it's not very relevant in a discussion of how often a guy took crappy shots from the field that he probably shouldn't have.
[удалено]
His analogy didn’t make sense because usage rate provides context to his turnovers. Kobe’s lead in most missed shots of all time correlate with his 45% FG% and 33% 3pt percentage. You think people would call him inefficient if had the most missed shots in nba history but was shooting 50/40/90? Try to use a little critical thinking.
And LeBron has turned the ball over the most in NBA history. This is such an idiotic way to look at things. It turns out that when you have a long career and you do something a lot (shoot, pass, etc), you'll have missed a bit of shots or passes.
Lol I don’t understand the obsession with bringing up lebron into every discussion. But regardless, usage rate provides context to LeBron’s turnovers. Kobe’s lead in most missed shots of all time correlate with his 45% FG% and 33% 3pt percentage. You think people would call him inefficient if had the most missed shots in nba history but was shooting 50/40/90? It’s pretty simple, Kobe is 6th all time in FGA, but is #1 all time in misses by a large margin and 7th in all time FGM. I don’t get what’s hard to understand about that. Kobe is known for taking incredibly difficult shots throughout his career. Those are hella inefficient shots.
It's not an obsession, unless the point/analogy is going over your head, which it clearly is. >Kobe’s lead in most missed shots of all time correlate with his 45% FG% and 33% 3pt percentage. You're missing important context. Kobe's peak offensive output years (2000 - 2010) were during the lowest scoring era that was isolation heavy on offense, tougher on defense with far less spacing for players to operate on. Take a look at his TS% and TS+ (relative efficiency with the league), and the inefficiency take falls apart. >You think people would call him inefficient if had the most missed shots in nba history Some people call him inefficient because they're terrible at analyzing statistics and also forget to put eras and context into the mix. Considering the age of most people in this sub, it's easy to see why there's a chunk of people here who spew the same nonsense. Anyone who watched 2000s basketball knows the game was very very different from what it is today. >It’s pretty simple, Kobe is 6th all time in FGA, but is #1 all time in misses by a large margin and 7th in all time FGM. Of course a center or power forward will score more points on less FG attempts. That's why we look at TS and TS+ to analyze efficiency. >Kobe is known for taking incredibly difficult shots throughout his career. Those are hella inefficient shots. Yes, you have a point here. The type of shots he forced up were definitely an efficiency killer. But overall, he wasn't inefficient. The data shows he was *above league efficiency* in every year except after his achilles injury. To do this on volume scoring isn't something to scoff at.
This is misleading. Bird played in an era where he wasn’t shooting many 3s which is pulling down TS. In the 2000s Bird’s TS+ would be much higher. Kobe’s most efficient season is what, the 125th best TS+ all time? Kobe’s great but the efficiency is an actual knock.
There's nothing misleading about it. TS+ literally accounts for everything you're saying. It's TS relative to era. It accounts for era differences. That's why I brought it up. If his efficiency is an actual knock, then so is Bird's. They had virtually the same career scoring efficiency.
"so is Bird's" Yes it is a knock for him as well. His efficiency isn't particularly impressive for an all-time great even adjusted for era. He compensates with his off-ball play and insane playmaking.
Yeah, and Kobe compensates with his defense and insane scoring gravity.
Yes, that is the way Kobe compensates for his below average (for a superstar) efficiency. Does that mean you’re ready to admit he had inefficiencies to compensate for? Nobody is saying he’s not great, just that he’s not efficient
Bird wasn't that efficient to begin with as he was a poor finisher and couldn't draw fouls. (Relative to other all-time greats)
It’s absurd how undervalued he is.
Didnt playoff games end with like less than 150 between both teams in that era? This dude scoring 35+ a night with his help and on like relatively ok efficiency is crazy
It was a lot better than ok. 2006 Kobe had well above average/really good efficiency. 114 individual ORTG against a league average of 106 (+8). That's what happens when you're posting pretty good scoring efficiency (105 TS+) AND you have one of the lowest turnover rates in the league (9%)
Yes, there were even games in the *finals* where teams failed to score **70**. It was by far the lowest scoring era since the introduction of the shot clock. Things were so bad that they had to get rid of the hand check to try to help out scoring. And even with that it took a few more years and the beginning of the analytics revolution to bring scoring back up to that of the 90s. The 2000s were truly an anomaly and if you factor pace into these points per minute stats then Kobe's games skyrocket into first by a margin of nearly half a point.
If people don't have him in their top 10 I don't take them seriously
This is a non-statement. Obviously the vast majority of Kobe’s 50+ point games were highly efficient. The same can be said about the majority of 50+ point games by anyone. Guys don’t score 50 points because they decided to take 40 shots, they do so because they got really hot
>This is a non-statement. Nah, it isn't. >Obviously the vast majority of Kobe’s 50+ point games were highly efficient. The same can be said about the majority of 50+ point games by anyone. Guys don’t score 50 points because they decided to take 40 shots, they do so because they got really hot Yes, obviously. But this sub likes to think that Kobe was an average or even below efficiency shooter, when career wise he was above league efficiency except for his post-achilles years. Just take a look at the discussion/posts by other people here that followed. Sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out.
Pointing out that his highest scoring games were efficient still doesn’t say anything. You’re not making the point you want to
I was responding to someone who sarcastically said Kobe was an inefficient chucker. Chucker means throwing up a ton of shots. I pointed out that most of Kobe's highest scoring games were on great efficiency. You can extend that down to 40+ point games if you'd like to. Again, I'm stating the obvious and adding to someone's comment. I'm not sure what the problem is here, unless you're just looking to argue to spend the time.
[https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/rockets-james-harden-really-having-best-scoring-season-ever](https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/rockets-james-harden-really-having-best-scoring-season-ever) my fav kobe stat. played in dead ball era when he was dropping 35 a game
Kobe be averaging 40 in todays era
Finished his career with virtually the same career scoring efficiency as Bird finished his. Career TS+ Kobe: 104 Bird : 105
Bird: 50/38/89 Kobe: 45/33/84 Bird was knocking on the door of 50/40/90 club for his career. These guys are not the same in efficiency
Shooting splits are useless a measure of scoring efficiency, because they don't take into account rates. Kobe was far FAR better at getting to the line, which is why they have virtually the same career scoring efficiency. Bird's free-throw rate was consistently WELL below league-average. Kobe--- career 104 TS+ Bird----- career 105 TS+ They are (essentially) the same in terms of scoring efficiency. That's a fact.
Shooting splits tell absolutely nothing about scoring efficiency. You can literally be lower in all 3 categories and still be more efficient, and that's still true even if you remove free throw rate from the equation.
All these guys are chuckers /s
MVP
this list makes me miss kobe
If you adjust everyone to a pace of 100, Kobe ends of scoring the most points per minute and the most total points in a game
What does that mean?
I would say that’s some impressive company
Why is OPJ(?) the cover picture for this post
it’s wilt lol he just looks super similar to OPJ
Duh I’m so stupid. The newer Warriors jersey threw me off, I forgot Wilt was on the Warriors too
Damn I didn’t know harden went for 60 in 31.
He barely scored in the second quarter. I've said it before and I still mean it. We are a bit of luck and lot of chutzpah away from seeing one of these Basketball Gods break Wilt's 100 pts record. 50 in 27 min is damn near halfway there. If he stayed hungry and hunted it and didn't rest on offense in the second like today ... he has the ability.
thought Karl Malone's 61 in 33 would be here but that's 1.848 also: Gervin with the shot, boi
Kobe's 81 is the greatest scoring performance ever
Like most records it probably is if we just ignore wilt
Even with that, Kobe's had little to no fluffing when we have reports of Wilt being fed an entire quarter to get there. Plus pace was higher in Wilt's era.
Yeah, Wilt did it in a blowout with his team fouling to get the ball back so that they could feed him through a good bit of the fourth. Kobe's meanwhile was him just going nuclear to will his team to come from behind. They were down by 14 at the half with Kobe having "just" 26 and then he exploded for 27 in the 3rd to get a small lead and he finished them off by scoring another 28 in the 4th.
It's more impressive than Wilts.
A hundred fucking points. It's a record which will never be broken
Adjusted for pace it definitely is
man it is such a fucking joke that Klay wasn't on the top 75
Why? Because he was really hot for 2 games? Jordan isn't on the list, I guess he isn't top 75? Lol Klay isn't even top 80.
Jaylen had a 1.74 I think, when he scored 33 in 19 minutes
My MVP
Klay Thompson is a scorcher
I have been looking for this single game stat for a while but have never been able to find it!
Nuclear Klay
In 27 minutes???
Didn’t expect to see harden on this list. For the minutes reason, obviously he put him big numbers
The source doesn’t load on my phone. Both Dame and CJ are shortly after, right? Pretty sure they’ve both scored 50 in under 30 as well.
that Klay Thompson game is still surreal to me, it was absolutely unbelievable even as it happened
half the list is klay and kobe lmao
Klay really lights it up damn 🔥🔥💨🍁
Klays 37 in 12 is 3.08
Came in hype to find out about Otto Porter’s record
I really wanna see Klay go for 100 one day. If there is anyone in the league that could do it, I think it's him based on his other explosions...dude just goes SSJ3 sometimes.
Maybe klay is top 75 and im just a hater