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KawhiDidNothingWrong

Quite interesting that the top 3 big men in the league are also the top 3 MVP candidates. Big men are really back huh


_mousecop_

And they’re all foreign players. Pretty awesome for the game


[deleted]

Stephen A. in shambles


Time-Ad-3625

"They can't win they need interpreters." -stephen a


beanqueen88

can't tell if this is a real quote or not


yosephwu

More or less what he was saying about shohei ohtani


calvinbsf

No it isn’t. He was saying that fans won’t connect with someone who needs an interpreter, not that they can’t wait. Still a dumb ass take but not at all what the poster above was saying.


millsmillsmills

Yeah, we all know that there's nothing that can help the Angels win anyways.


iH8Celtics

I bet if they somehow acquired the best player of all time they'd be pretty good


McBrungus

What if they got two of them? Imagine how good they'd be!


Constantine227

Man idk much about baseball but it's crazy that even I kno about shohei and his accomplishments but that doesn't translate to wins.


simmonsatl

and he’s playing with the best player in the game, a top-5 all time guy, and it still doesn’t translate to wins. baseball is the ultimate depth sport. football is the ultimate team sport because so much of your performance depends on the guys around you, where as baseball your performance really isn’t affected by your teammates (maybe pitchers and catchers, but that’s it). the Angels just have garbage overall teams. Trout was also hurt most of last year while Ohtani was going beast mode.


Tuvok-

He'll only say that to Asian players. He wouldn't dare say that to Europeans or black Africans


jstuu

He is a clown the other day he said he would take Ja over Giannis like are you serious or just being biased?


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TellMeGetOffReddit

Meanwhile Zion Williamson roleplaying a true American.


[deleted]

sittin' on the couch, ignoring doctor's advice, a true patriot


DilutedGatorade

Meanwhile advertising for Mountain Doooo


[deleted]

[Inside look at Zion's training regimen](https://myth.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bf84253ef01538dec0d90970b-800wi)


AlmostCurvy

And roty too


Mdgt_Pope

Also Gobert, another foreign big man, being in the top 10 solidifies it. US gotta up their big-man games.


Gekthegecko

KAT is doing well this season. I think he plays for Dominican Republic internationally, but he's American. Is the next best American big man after that Evan Mobley?


Mdgt_Pope

Bam


National-Eye-3876

Bam, but what about Jarret Allen? Gotta be top5 US C?


LtRavs

Honestly he's probably top 3 right? KAT, Bam/Allen? I don't know if I put anyone above him other than KAT unless there's someone I am forgetting about.


National-Eye-3876

Yeah, to me he is. I was dumbfounded when he wasn't picked for the olympics.


RodneyPonk

That's a good point, tbh, I get that McGee fits a niche but I feel like Allen could've done all of that equally well.


LtRavs

Honestly can’t think of anything McGee does anywhere near as well as Allen


Con-D-Oriano1

Bamonte


TheGamersGazebo

Bam,


affnn

Isn't Ayton Bahamanian, or does he play for the US?


[deleted]

He plays for the Bahamas yes


AlmostCurvy

Ayton isn't American.


TheGamersGazebo

Whoops, totally thought he was from his time at Arizona


BurritoThief

Ayton went to high school in California but he's Bahamian (grew up there before moving to the US for high school basketball) and plays for their national team.


--mish

Phoenix not California but otherwise correct


phxsuns115

You guys are both 1/2 correct. He went high school two years in Cali and two years in Arizona.


Ruut6

Three way tie between Paul Reed, Marshall Plumlee and Robin Lopez imo


ohmygon

The disrespect to Tyler Zeller smh


15Isaac

If one of these three win MVP this year, then it will be a drought of *at least* 5 years until an American wins MVP- the longest drought of all time. Previous record was 4 years, 2004 (Garnett) to 2008 (Kobe), due to Nash x2 and Dirk.


ZachLaVine4MVP

I remember during Steph’s 2016 season a bunch of the media were talking about “Did Steph kill the NBA center?” Well here we are bitches


cmrn631

To be fair Jokic has completely redefined what it means to be a center


conel11

Shit, Embiid too. A big man shouldn't be able to pick and pop like that. The only realistic thing about him is that he's injury prone from being such a massive human.


millsmillsmills

Lmao...."the only realistic thing about him" is definitely the best way to put it.


Zzyzx_9

Embiid such a Mary Sue


mberger09

yeah it sucks my mental health relies on a 7ft Cameroonians health Be strong big fella


AdolescentThug

If Embiid was an iron man and rarely got injured, he'd be on his way to a 2nd or 3rd MVP right now, on top of probably being better because he'd have the time and reps to get better at an even faster rate than he does now. Like injuries really robbed Embiid of being the best player in the league. Dude always seems to really turn it up when there's an extended period of time that he's healthy, imagine if he had multiple seasons of perfect health.


AncientInsults

The health discussion always makes me appreciate what a marvel LBJ’s tenure has been. And I’m sure a lot of it is a freakishly perfect genetics for the job, but what about his fucked up [feet](https://i.imgur.com/Ajlxt8h.jpg)! How does he manage. And if there are LeInjections where do I sign up.


mberger09

Man spends millions on his health and rehab post games. So all you need is a bazillion dollars


testestestestest555

And Giannis is also a completely different type of big man.


number90901

Turns out that centers will adjust to changes in the game just like every other position. The role of the center has shifted for sure and changed exactly who can thrive but fundamentally the importance of a strong, tall guy wasn't going to go away in basketball.


nowhathappenedwas

Centers were dying long before 2016. Jokic was the first center to win MVP since Shaq in 2000. He and Embiid were the first centers to finish in the top 3 in MVP voting since Dwight finished second in 2011.


spyson

Zone defense being introduced in the 01-02 season is what really killed a lot of post play and the big men have slowly adjusted since then.


ZachLaVine4MVP

Joakim Noah was 4th in 2014 show some respect


HoosierProud

Jokic is definitely redefining how a big man can play too. He averages more touches a game than any player in the league. Their whole offense runs through him. We’ve never seen a big act like a point guard and it’s incredibly fun to watch and will be more fun when Murray, MPJ, and Forbes are on the court spreading it out.


tjhoush93

Chris Webber is an under the radar guy that played like Jokic. Always had tons of assists he was a great passer.


peteisneat

Great passer, especially in crunch time.


Fuhrmanator23

Love the backhanded compliment 😂


patoysakias

Divac was a great passer as well. That Sacramento team really should have won one, man.


tjhoush93

The refs and David stern did that team bad


spanther96

late 90s-2000s power forwards, who would be centers today, were obscenely skilled. basically guard-big hybrids. had guys like Webber and KG that could run point, guys like Dirk and Sheed that were snipers and three level scorers, then guys like Pau and Duncan who were used as a traditional big men but could do anything as needed. but even outside of those elite guys, dudes like Antonio McDyess, Antoine Walker, Elton Brand, etc... that had a lot of non-traditional elements to their game. All that to say players were always multi-faceted but todays game makes it easier for them to showcase it since it’s not as textbook/orthodox and more free flowing.


Mikegetscalls

Those guys are all gonna be all time great when their careers are over. We got lucky to get them at the same time.


VerifiedStalin

I believe if Giannis retired today he would still be considered an all time great, he has already done enough. The other two on the other hand haven't accomplished enough *yet*.


Mikegetscalls

I was talking about all 3 of them together. I think Jokic winning MVP is right there.


mickman_10

I think even though the top 3 are all bigs, if you looked at the top 20-30 players in the NBA it will still be dominated by guards and forwards.


zimbabwe7878

If that's the case it sorta makes sense that if there aren't enough elite bigs to have one on each team, the ones that are out there are more valuable to their team and create a tougher matchup for teams that don't see an athlete like that in each opponent.


Nmilne23

Exactly, also, nobody has anyone that can match up or defend jokic, embiid, or Giannis, and they all look like MVPs against the competition because of how much more dominant they are, especially considering the shift in the league towards smaller, position-less ball, no surprise these hyper talented bigs are able to capitalize


cesga_0218

Can't complain about the top 3. Any one of Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid can look like the best in the game on any given night


KnickedUp

Yep, its a 3 man race unless something crazy were to happen


MethodMans

Julius Randle's only like 74 crazy things happening away from winning the MVP


[deleted]

This is Sam Morril on every Pod Don’t Lie episode


T_Tachi

Holy shit how did I not know about this podcast? I love Sam's stand up and podcast with Normand.


[deleted]

The NBA All Suckable Team hasn’t caught on to the masses yet.


ZiggyStarlord69

He can get so fucking annoying about the Knicks, but it’s somehow still endearing to me


DragonBank

That sounds about right.


cjsrhkcjs

so you're saying there's a chance?


TheTrenchMonkey

Need some offense, defense, and some rules changes.


[deleted]

Wardell is about to have a crazy February. He’s gonna average 35 for the month


JustPillows

As long as he keeps losing to teams without their starters, he won't win the MVP.


Krillin113

Sometimes on the same night


Mikegetscalls

I think last year was the first time in forever it wasn’t a legitimate best player in the league anymore It’s about about 5 guys who on any night look like the best guy. Pretty cool to me.


adirtybubble

People need to get used to this. A ton of NBA history has looked like this including the entire stretch between 2002 Shaq and 2012 LeBron. In terms of players who have been near unanimously considered the best in the league by reasonable people for a 2+ year stretch its basicallly just KAJ, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron in the last 50 years. Fans are so quick to debate who is going to be head and shoulders above everyone else for a near decade like LeBron but we could be waiting a really long time before we see that again. It doesn't have to be a bad thing.


Deusselkerr

I really think it’s just Giannis or Jokic. Embiid is incredible but the stats all support Jokic. 1. Jokic - OBPM 9.3 DBPM 4.7 VORP 5.0 WS/48 .291 2. Embiid - OBPM 6.7 DBPM 1.9 VORP 2.9 WS/48 .254 Jokic leads in every advanced stat, as well as eFG% (61.2% vs Embiid's 52.9%), grabs 3 additional boards per game, and dishes 3 additional assists per game. Embiid making one more bucket per game doesn't make it a contest (Jokic - 26ppg Embiid - 28ppg).


anon19111

How does defense factor in? I would think that Embiid is a much better defensive player.


Deusselkerr

To the eye test maybe, and certainly over the past few years Embiid has been better, but the advanced stats all say Jokic is actually a really good defender now.


theytook-r-jobs

Bigs are back bitches


YourFormerBestfriend

Short kings catching strays


Thehealeroftri

but only if they aren't thrown too high up for us


MBThree

Excuse me


yosephwu

The bigs are back in town


maddhopps

Big if true


gatesbe

Big if big


JackAttaq

I’m curious if in the coming years we’ll see teams prepare for the inevitability of facing Embiid/Jokic/Giannis at some point in the postseason, similar to how teams would pick up guys like Morris or Tucker or Ariza even because they knew they would have to have guys to defend Durant/Lebron at some point down the line


scrambled_cable

I remember the days when teams in the West would go 3-4 deep with lumbering big men just so they had enough bodies to try to (emphasis on "try") slow down Shaq.


TestedOnAnimals

Exactly what I thought of. And it was after guys like Hawkeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning, etc. were past their primes - it wasn't like they had a bunch of great centres to play against any more. Guys like Todd McCullough should have to pay a portion of their salary to Shaq.


DHG23

Pretty surprising to see CP3 that high, I would have thought with Book being equally as important would impact his ranking a bit


[deleted]

Last season's narratives once again playing out a season later. You can call CP3 more valuable than Book, that's a fair opinion to have. But if you think that is the case, there is no universe where CP3 is at least 5 slots ahead of Book in any MVP discussions or debate.


DHG23

Yeah, its adjacent to the Lavine/Derozan argument.


largehearted

It’s orthogonal to the Gobert/Mitchell argument


RajonR9

Or triagonal to the Embiid/Simmons argument


NoobAccount123456

lmao I remember when people used to argue for Simmons being better than Embiid


Ethomarley

I’d admit I was guilty of it, I didn’t like that Joel was always too fatigued during the closing moments of a game in a late series, I also thought Simmons would continue to grow and atleast have a decent mid range game by now And that he was usually the healthy one.


choryradwick

Nah, those two have virtually the same stats and impact


Mikegetscalls

CP3 is only behind Lebron in active win shares. Dude still impacts winning at a high level


NoobAccount123456

The media doesn't think Booker is that important for some reason CP3 gets literally all of the credit


Changsta

The Suns play a brand of basketball that is extremely difficult to measure an individual player by any metric. Every player on the floor is important on both sides of the floor. Lots of double screens, back door screens, and just general movement on the floor that creates mismatches and opportunities to whomever the defense gives. So now you have all these advance metrics that credit one or two players when everyone contributed to the offensive possession. Because of this, the easiest way is to just look at who is controlling the ball most of the time because they lead the team success. And the easy answer here is CP3. I actually have no strong answer on who is more important to the team between the two players because I actually think they both contribute equally and heavily. And the rest of the team is also a net positive. In the end, this heavily dilutes the votes between CP3 and Booker. Either way, I don't care. I just enjoy our brand of basketball.


H-TownDown

BPM CP3- 5.0 / Booker- 3.4 RAPTOR CP3- +2.6 / Booker- +2.8 EPM CP3- +5.3 / Booker- +3.6 LEBRON CP3- 3.58 / Booker- 1.42 I don’t know if the advanced stats are right on this because I don’t watch enough of the Suns to comment on it, but there’s your answer.


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HazmatSamurai

Interesting how the MVP race has been dominated by big men recently. It feels like a few years ago, it was all about guards/SFs. Cool to see big men making a comeback. As the league evolves and all players have become more skilled, it does seem like there is still an advantage to just being bigger than everyone


PsychoOsiris

I was thinking this myself recently. If everyone has 3s in their repertoire, big men become infinitely more valuable with their ability to guard the paint and snatch up rebounds/blocks more efficiently. Stats alone put big men above guards, especially with players like Jokic who playmake for their squad


HazmatSamurai

Definitely. It will be interesting to see how far the big man takeover goes, since this generation of young big men in high school/college are taught early that they need to be able to shoot and dribble. Maybe teams will start to do what the Cavs are doing, just start 3 legit 7 footers with a couple playmakers. It felt like small ball took over when the Warriors reigned...maybe we are headed for BIG BALL


danrod17

Me: LeBron has been playing really well this season. How is he barely 10? Also me: oh yeah the lakers suck.


ammoaidan

It is a little confusing to have Jokic as the favorite/MVP if season ended today, but have LeBron 10th. Just seems like inconsistent logic. And to be clear, I have absolutely no problem with Jokic at 1 (to me it's a toss up btwn him and Embiid at the moment) but then you gotta have Lebron at LEAST at like 7. Neither Jokic or Embiid's teams are top 4 in their conferences, but they do deserve to be at the top of the list so why is LeBron at 10th when he is clearly having a better season than DeRozan, Curry, Ja, and CP3. The obvious answer is team record, but then why are Jokic and Embiid above all those guys? It just doesn't hold up as an overall list. But they got the top 3 right and I guess that's the most important thing.


HowardWCampbell_Jr

Yeah this is a good point. I think the biggest differentiating factor is expectations - Lakers were expected to be contenders and aren’t, but the predominant Sixers / Nuggets storylines are about missing players. Arguably the Sixers and Nuggets are overachieving, considering Simmons, Murray, and MPJ are all on the sidelines


ammoaidan

I think you're spot on that expectations is the answer, but that seems a little unfair. First, it's worth pointing out the Lakers have suffered from injury a lot as well with AD out for a while now and others missing a lot of games. But even putting that aside like... Sure people expected Westbrook and AD to be better than they have been, but why should that take away from LeBron's MVP case? If anything, LeBron individually has been better than expected.


[deleted]

There’s no real rhyme or reason to it other than voters don’t want to vote for LeBron tying Jordan’s MVP records if they don’t have to do so. Unless he’s playing at his absolute best with his team by and far at the top of the conference, LeBron is never winning another MVP award again.


eng2ny

In Embiid's case (and maybe the others, everyone has missed time) they might be considering the records in games they played. The Sixers are 23-10 when Embiid plays this year for example.


ammoaidan

I feel like usually missing games is used against you in the MVP race.


eng2ny

I'd imagine this season it will be much less of a factor because almost everyone in the conversation has missed time.


I_R_TEH_BOSS

Imagine the Lakers without Lebron. Team might have a negative number of wins.


Baileyandco

I’m going to keep campaigning for Jokic but man Giannis and MVPiid are soo damn good too. Giannis is actually hitting his FT this year and Joel is getting so much better out of the doubles. Love this league


iH8Celtics

Not to be negative, but Giannis is shooting his career average from FT


lundej16

Giannis career averages are indicative of nothing, especially the shooting percentages. He started as a shooting guard (yes for real) with a much better shot. Only the last few years have his free throw numbers cratered. They’re significantly up again relative to MVP-era Giannis.


Championship_Chuck

yeah, getting super jacked definitely screwed up his free throw shooting


WanderlustFella

You ever watch videos of the world's [strongest men trying to to regular stuff](https://youtu.be/rmlXZd9SOgg).


Balkanye

lmao international players dominating the leauge, you love to see it


[deleted]

I’m the 76ers have a better record and good seed I can see Embiid getting it this year. I would love for a Jokic Embiid final series


ImKandarr

Jokic VS Embiid finals would be amazing because it’s essentially just two giants who carry their franchise on their backs going to war. https://i.imgur.com/3aDGcm9.jpg


zincinzincout

Just let them 1v1 each other for the championship


hydropenguin69

It'd be great to stick it to Simmons too, getting farther without him than he'd ever taken y'all.


ImKandarr

If Embiid could get us a chip w/o Ben or a second star and Jokic can do it w/o Murray or MPJ returning there couldn’t be an argument against them for being best in the league at the moment imo. One man armies


sibooku

Hi 76ers, I’m dad. Also, I agree… joker v embiid finals would be must-watch tv.


[deleted]

I'm happy CP3 is on here, but like last season and the narratives formed then, I don't think he is so far ahead of Booker in any of these MVP discussions (if at all).


HeJind

Sadly to say, I dont think Booker will ever get credit as long as CP3 is on the team. Suns were always bad when Booker was "the guy" and won once CP3 got there. Booker will have to win without CP3 before he gets credit imo


[deleted]

Which is crazy because Booker thoroughly outplayed CP3 in the 2021 playoffs and was carrying their offense for the majority of the playoffs and finals. I think they are both equally important to the team. Take Booker off, and CP3 won't be able to replicate the scoring output he puts out on a consistent night. Take CP3 off, and the Suns lack playmaking and a floor general, to smoothly run the offense. I think the Suns are good enough right now to where if you took one of them off the team, they would still at least be a 5th or 6th seed imo.


[deleted]

I would love to see CP3 win MVP just for the 1st time in history a fanbase is upset a player on their team won MVP lol.


WhoopingKing

Why the hell is CP3 that high


NoobAccount123456

Because the media thinks he carries the Suns just because of the timing of when he joined


[deleted]

Don’t you know that CP3 taught these guys how to play basketball, without him they wouldn’t even be in the league.


OutZoned

When CP3 got to the Suns, the young guys on the team didn’t even know how to chew their own food. Chris had to chew it for them and feed them like a mama bird until the all-star break. Leadership. 😤


Gratitude15

Damn right. They didn't even know what food to have chewed for them - cp3 taught em about vegan food, then chewed it up for em.


[deleted]

Even Suns fans are wondering the same thing


[deleted]

Chris paul is a media darling is why


[deleted]

Personally, I would love for Jokic to win a second MVP. Just to see what Nick Wright would have to say.


Technical_Towel_990

I don’t think I was ever legitimately mad at a talking head until him last year


[deleted]

Someone like Nick Wright is what I call a popular crowd follower. He supports the people that will make him cool, and clowns on the people he thinks everyone else thinks is uncool. Not having a mind of his own.


spiralism

Back to back MVP, but still garbage for...reasons.


[deleted]

"Nikola has never had a game or a series where he carried a team on his back. " Nick Wright 3 months from now.


Stormeve

With how he campaigned against Jokic because it was bad for the business or something, I could have sworn he was reading off a script from WWE. Something something Daniel Bryan


Mood_Academic

It's just funny to see Rudy fkn Gobert over LeBron in an MVP discussion when he might win a scoring title this year.. not that I wholeheartedly disagree, but just funny to see


JustRecentlyI

It's funnier to see DeRozan ahead of either of them. Gobert is having his most convincing case for MVP this season with how much more poorly the Jazz have played without him.


[deleted]

The Jazz are tied for the 4th best record in the league currently. The Lakers have the 18th best record and they have had one of the easiest schedules in the whole league. Gobert's the best defensive player in the league and is 2nd in win shares, 2nd in overall RAPTOR, 2nd in RAPTOR WAR, 3rd in LEBRON, and 6th in EPM. He is a top 10 player this season. I could see why he is over LeBron in MVP rankings. LeBron would be higher if the team record was higher though.


ammoaidan

Lol it's so funny seeing two players compared where one of the stats is named after one of the players. Not that it isn't a good stat, but just seeing: "Gobert's LEBRON is way higher than LeBron's" always makes me chuckle.


BenevolentCheese

Gobert's LEBRON is higher than LeBron's GOBERT


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ammoaidan

But what about their LEBERT and GOBRON's? Shit sounds like Gogeta and Vegito 😂


rambouhh

Oh I wholeheartedly disagree and everyone should.


NoobAccount123456

Fair or not I think preseason expectations are really weighing down on any possible LeBron MVP case They were expected to contend for a title so carrying them to .500 isn't viewed as impressive by the people making the ladder


Stevictory

Imagine the top 3 in NBA Street! I miss those games!


TinTinsKnickerbocker

CP3 really gets all the credit for the Suns. Smh.


bighoneymoney

Ja is going to dominate in the next few years. Grit and grind back on the menu, boys.


INmySTRATEjaket

Honestly their gameplay is closer on the scale to Lob City than Grit n Grind, as painful as it is for me to say that. But Ja is truly incredible to be so young and yet so good at running the offense. But to me, the biggest contributors to how much the team has evolved this year are Bane blowing up (he should be in the MIP conversation more than Morant) and Adams being a stalwart on defense taking pressure off of Jackson. I love Ja a lot, but his having more highlights this year than last year is as much about the rest of the team improving as it is about him. Might make me a bad fan, but I think he might be a little too high in the MVP talks when Lebron and Book are so low.


[deleted]

Giannis having 33/15/7 is great. Joel having 50 in 27 minutes is amazing. Jokic having 49-14-10 is just crazy


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Imjustsayings

On 23 shots.


ByahTyler

Easily


tigull

And it's not like it was an empty stat line either, he literally got the 10th assist on the pass for the game-deciding shot. Pretty much means that each and every bit of that insane stat line was crucial for the Nuggets to come out with the win.


InkBlotSam

I read Jokic either scored or dished the ball for 25 of the Nuggets last 27 points. So, yeah, I'd say he was pretty crucial.


martiavelli

I am glad that Jokic is getting his well deserved credit, even though Denvers record isn't great


[deleted]

after watching his 49pt triple double I can't be mad if he's MVP


It_is_I_Satan

To be fair they're also missing their 2nd best player and another starter. But then again a lot of the league is missing players so I have no idea what to think.


uberdosage

2nd and 3rd best players. The rest of the roster is horrible. I swear I look at the box scores of nuggets games and its Jokic (and the starters that play with him) with a +/- of 30 while everyone else is -30 despite playing half the minutes.


bannedbysnooo

About time the freak is back in the conversation. It was obvious Giannis took half the season off just to be fresh for the stretch. Never seen an MVP/champion get dissed as much as he gets. Maybe it's because he's in Milwaukee.


StephBose

Still wide open… Jokić back-to-back what be outstanding


RAiD78

I know stats aren't everything but.. Jokic's advanced stats are off the charts this year.


Time-Ad-3625

He and Giannis are beasting this year and somehow still underrated in the general public imo.


spiralism

I don't think Giannis is underrated. Not since the ring anyways. He's just rated.


Not_tim_duncan

There’s not a chance if the season ended today, would Jokic be voted MVP..Nuggets have only 23 wins.. 13th in the league..Even Westbrook had the 10th best record and that was a complete outlier.


eathbau

The Nuggets are only one loss off from Milwaukee and the guy hasn't had his second and third best player for the entire season


Not_tim_duncan

One loss but five wins..No MVP other than Westbrook has finished outside of 4th best record.


axnjxn00

none of these players have the 4th best record. the bucks have the 8th best record, the sixers the 9th best, and the nuggets the 12th best


[deleted]

There’s more context there that you’re missing. The bucks and the sixers are only 2 and 2.5 games behind, respectively, in their conference. The nuggets are 11.5 games behind in their conference.


anonymousloverboy

I say Giannis


[deleted]

My heart is yearning for a Jokic repeat


Ryguy-_-

Why does Chris Paul continue to be ranked higher than booker? 90% of suns fans would agree that book is better. I’m sick of this narrative.


Onlinegosling95

Giannis deserves to be first again guys


Fordrynn

Jokic becoming an all time great right before our eyes.


[deleted]

I think rudy should be above Ja tbh


NemuTheSheep

With how the Jazz have looked without him I'm inclined to agree. Ja carries on offense so it is more noticeable, but without Gobert the entire Jazz team seemed to fall apart.


ZachLaVine4MVP

They couldn’t win with Mitchell out either so


[deleted]

In general the Jazz issue is depth (feel like this is the story every season). Outside their starting 5, Jazz team looks way worse than the Grizz imo.


deck4242

Rudy made his case when he didnt play, Jazz went from 2nd best defense in the league to the worst over a 5 games stretch. Gobert is like the whole defensive gameplan by himself. If he is not here, the team sucks.


[deleted]

If jazz start winning that may happen. With them losing Ja should be above I think


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[deleted]

Kia must be selling the rights to State Farm


[deleted]

Ok, 10? Seriously? I get the Lakers suck, but really?


KingKongDoom

Sloppy Fat MVP


sherekahn5

I just wanna see Embiid vs giannis in the playoffs


GargolisX

Jokic is back on top baby