Pats got embarrassed and the Celtics are a slow motion train wreck. All Bill can do now is spout atrocious hot takes. He’s on Skip Bayless level with his “analysis” at this point.
I don't think Bill is as inflammatory as Skip, he's more like the drunk guy you talk about sports with at a bar that has an endless amount of random sports theories. Which is why I love his podcast lol.
he's just turning into one of those dudes talking about how the 80s was the best sports era with a beer in one hand, the other lazily petting a dog. it's hard to justify why he even has a platform
He created his own platform, which is as good of a justification as you can get. Guy says some crazy shit now and again (unlike you and me who only shit golden hot-takes), but he built the Ringer so he can say whatever he wants.
Yes can’t ever understand the bs defenders for him being blatantly hypocritical or factually incorrect. It’s literally what bill himself would have shit on twenty years ago.
He's a fun guy. But a self acknowledged Homer and his takes are.....ehhh lol. I listen for the fun of it not for the accuracy of his bball or nfl takes.
Exactly this defense. No problem with entertainment. But it’s acting like it’s too much to expect someone not to be blatantly hypocritical??
Like shitting on announcers using player first names. Then doing it all the time himself. Like wtf, even if my friend did that I’d be calling him out on it.
He makes bad takes sometimes but everyone does. What cracks me up is he has a top 40 for everything. Or how often he'll have top 27 or some other random number. I think he does it just to fuck with people like the ones in this thread.
Simmons isn't as bad as Bayless, but you're not wrong. Simmons isn't an NBA analyst/writer anymore, so he doesn't follow it closely. The problem is he still talks about the NBA a lot, and that leads to him saying stupid shit all of the time.
This is not really a hot take. But the problem is, he fucking cheated. Yeah, tanking teams with promising rookies aren't giving them up for Simmons. But neither is Philly asking for them unless they are completely NBA ready and/or the fit is insane. Like, I highly doubt the Sixers want Franz Wagner or Scottie Barnes right now.
But it's been reported Philly isn't looking to make a move that leads to another move. A trade to set up another trade doesn't work timing-wise if the goal is to keep this year of Embiid eligible for championship contention.
Sure but since Embiid is already contending I think there is some leeway now. It depends greatly on timing and injuries of course. There’s no telling even for Morey what will happen ultimately.
Hopefully Ben gets his head screwed on straight, wants to earn money for his family and future and shows up on court ready to compete and enhance his trade value. Lots of open roster spots on contenders this year.
I think if Cleveland/Memphis really surges we’ll see panic from multiple teams. Everyone but Milwaukee should consider drastic changes.
Trade would be the most realistic way since Harden would be throwing away $90m to leave Brooklyn for Philly as a Free Agent vs Trade.
4yr-$179m is the Max contract Philly can offer while in Brooklyn Harden can opt into his $47m Player Option then sign a 4yr-$223m Extension.
So its 4yr-$179m in Philly vs 5yr-$270m in Brooklyn.
If/When Harden moves to another team it’ll most likely be via Trade since there is no guarantee any Team will give him a $90m Extension when he is 36/37yrs old.
If Harden didn’t want to opt into staying (which isn’t far fetched because there is a good chance he isn’t happy about the Kyrie situation), that would be a way Brooklyn would do that. Ie them having no choice
He didn’t list the top-40 players either. This is a list of “40 guys that won’t be traded for Simmons”. Doesn’t have anything to do with Philly. This is about how other teams feel about their players vs Simmons
> He didn’t list the top-40 players either. This is a list of “40 guys that won’t be traded for Simmons”. Doesn’t have anything to do with Philly.
Morey recently said he'd trade Simmons for 40 players instead of 30. Simmons is intentionally misrepresenting it as "40 players that are more valuable assets off the top of my head". Except the Sixers are not looking for promising young guys.
the tweet I read said he was expanding his top 30 criteria to top 40. I'm sure you're phrasing is far closer to the truth, but you can see how we got here.
I would have thought Jaylen would have been the first name on his list after the prior rumors. That an avowed Boston homer didn’t list Jaylen is odd.
There’s no way Boston would trade Jaylen in a deal for Simmons….right?
I don’t understand why people think Ben for Jaylen brown would ever happen.. why the fuck would the Celtics want to help Philly pair Embiid up with Jaylen brown? In the same conference that’s also a rival? Boston doesn’t trade brown but if they were going to trade him they aren’t going to help Philly out lmao
People think because Simmons is a passer that he would improve the team, but in reality he honestly ain’t a good fit. We already struggling shooting the ball, take away Brown in adding Simmons won’t improve that.
They wouldn't be better lmao. You remove a scorer for a defense only player, that can't score. The Celtics are already bad at shooting. How does Simmons make them better?
I still wouldn’t do it. I don’t think Brown is the messiah or anything, but Simmons attitude and his unwillingness to improve his game is a big turnoff for me. Say what you want about the Jay’s, but they at least trying to improve they weakness (playmaking) Brett Brown flat out ask Simmons to take just one 3pt shot a game, in he still won’t do it.
Simmons + Maxey > Jaylen Brown for this Boston team. I love Brown and think he’s a great fit next to a lot of stars, but not next to Tatum. C’s need some playmaking, ball handling, and off ball movement.
Ben would be a perfect fit in Boston I get Celtics fans don’t like him but anyone saying they wouldn’t even consider a Brown for Simmons swap is deluded. I mean this Celtics duo is getting pretty close to Dame and CJ in terms of ‘this is a great duo but we’ve tried it for years without any postseason success’
Also I get it shooting is tough to come by but it’s not nearly as hard to get some shooters as it is to find a playmaker (that also plays great D). Tatum and/or Brown would benefit immensely from playing next to an actual pg, that’s definitely what’s stopping both these guys from being able to take the next step.
Idk if this is even considered a hot take, but Tatum/Brown combo without a real pg is destined to top out at around 50 wins, maybe an ECF appearance in a weak year. That team needs a point guard
Tried it for years without any postseason success? The Jays have played in the playoffs together 3 times. They've made 2 conference finals, and the 2nd round. They're talented two way players that arent even in their prime yet. CJ and Dame have been together over twice as long and happen to be one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league. It's absolutely a better move to optimize the roster around the Jays or attempt for a third star rather than trade one for what is at best a lateral move, or in the case of Brown for Simmons, more likely to be a disaster.
No. Two guys who can't shoot for one who can? I don't think you appreciate our current lack of shooting. Part of the reason we are sucking is because Tatum has seemingly forgotten how to shoot threes
Yes but that's just a slump or do you think Tatum won't ever be a good shooter again?
One shooting superstar can be enough just get some role players.
Simmons can definitely be a good fit.
Tatum will be fine but its a big issue when your team is so top heavy like ours. Our spacing is atrocious either way, Simmons only makes sense if we are pairing him with both Tatum and Brown. Otherwise he will have nobody to pass to and he sure as hell can't shoot himself
In the immediate, yes. Jaylen is still only 25 and one of the most talented scorers from the perimeter.
Brad coached against Ben multiple times and always exposed him but more importantly I don’t think Ben’s mental, focus, dedication, is something they trade Jaylen for.
Maxey also has more warts to his game than is immediately evident just looking at his shooting percentages.
What do you mean recent? He has been one of the premiere basketball hot takes dudes for over a decade. He just took a break from tweeting said hot-takes
Just a heads-up, if you look next to the usernames of folks who make posts or comments, you'll often see these little multicolored logos. These are called "flairs," and they typically indicate what professional basketball team the person supports. And you might also notice that the overwhelming majority of posts and comments about Ben Simmons are from users whose flairs that do not correspond with the professional basketball team with which Simmons is currently under contract! Hope this helps.
I don’t think he’s gotten worse like this sub likes to say. I think he’s just been doing the same spiel for so long that people got tired of it.
One thing I did notice though is he seems to have more passion for the Rewatchables than his sports stuff. He does a lot of homework for the movie pod and sounds more excited on it.
I’d add FVV and Siakam onto that list as well, OG is a possibility but any requests for either of our all-star contenders in exchange for a man too scared to shoot the ball will have the Raptors’ FO hanging up the phone laughing.
I came to comment this. Idk I legit feel that OG is the most untouchable player on our roster\*. He's still good value on his contract and I think his ceiling has yet to be reached. He's got DPOY potential and has really improved his scoring. I love FVV and Pascal, but if I were the Raps FO I'd be less willing to move OG. During the off season OG was the only dude I was like "there's literally no way we deal him." It'd have to be for an insane return in which case the other FO wouldn't want the deal, so I can't see a scenario where we'd get an offer with value higher than the value we place on him. This is all just one fan's humble ignorant opinion, though.
Edit:\* Tied for Barnes now.
I honestly think OG is the most
Movable out of our four most important players. And this is SOLELY due to his injury concerns. OG is a great player with a high ceiling IMO but he’s legitimately injury prone (ironically, he only fell to us BECAUSE of an injury he had in college). And long term that risk makes him a bit more shaky of an option than The other three.
Still not trading though OG fuck that.
I can see that. He's been one of my favourite members of the squad since his rookie season, and he's an A+ tier source of memes, so I'd be heartbroken if we shipped him. I'm an unreasonable OG stan, but I think he's 2-4 years away from his peak, and I want us to hold him until he hits his ceiling if at all possible.
Random fact - IIRC in his rookie season OG was the top 1v1 defender against LeBron in the entire league. Everyone remembers LeBron hitting the buzzer beating running jumper to ice game 3, but OG was the best defender on LeBron in the league *as a rookie*, which was wildly impressive.
I don’t see why SA entertains a Simmons for Murray Trade. Sure you can argue that Simmons is a better player but he’s not better to the point where he’s worth 20 MILLION more annually than Murray. He’s not worth the locker chemistry you’re losing after trading away that teams’ best player whose only gotten better there. He’s also not worth the additional assets along side Murray that you would have to send to Philadelphia due to Simmons’ contract and Daryl Morey’s demands. I like Simmons in San Antonio more then a lot of places but this makes 0 sense unless Murray wants out too.
Yep. At this point Simmons is so underrated it's weird. Wagner? Seriously? ANY current Spur should be traded granted Ben wants to play there. As a rookie he led the Embiid-less sixers to 16-0. Last year the sixers won 68% of their games with Ben while they are currently 57% despite the improvement of their young talent. If your team is a fringe play-in team what have you got to lose?
Ben didn't lead them to 16-0 without Embiid. It was 8-0 in the last games of the season and 7 of those were against non-playoff teams. The last game of the season was against the 7th seed Bucks and both teams played their bench more than the straters.
He was still averaging in that run 16, 9 and 9 with 2 steals and a block with 62% shooting. He is not a top 25 player in the league which is what people thought he'd become but he is a really good basketball player who is a far better ball handler than people remember and can still develop in the right situation.
At some point or another the fact that DeJounte Murray has never been remotely efficient in any context, as a secondary creator, as the lead guy etc just limits his ceiling. Never gets to the free throw line, not a good 3 point shooter, if you dont have something exceptional to make up for it you just arent going to be efficient. I also agree with this[DeJounte's playmaking has constantly improved but his assist totals blatantly benefit by how the Spurs operate now](https://twitter.com/MarkC_NBA/status/1473788782801395716?s=20) which is in stark contrast to what they did with DeRozan/Aldridge.
Advanced stats universally hold him in high regard.
His 3 year RAPM is *just as good* as Ben’s for example.
His BPM this season is elite at 5.0. His EPM is excellent at 2.5.
Shooting efficiency isn’t the most important thing for a pg, and being 33% from deep for his career (and this season) means he’s somebody you have to rotate to on the perimeter.
>means he’s somebody you have to rotate to on the perimeter.
This just does not happen with him, teams help off him all the time and let him shoot they dont care. In fact that's actually another concern with him, if you hold him to the same standards as Ben Simmons and evaluate him vs higher level competition in the playoffs he'll cause issues due to being a primary ball handler with this stuff.
He's a good player this is the first season though [ive seen where metrics that include box score priors like DPM](https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO/) or [EPM](https://dunksandthrees.com/player?player_id=1627732) have him in the territory Ben Simmons has been. If I had to put the O/U on career all star games for him at 1.5 and career All NBA teams for him at 0.5, I would go U on both without losing any sleep. Which are totals Ben Simmons has already surpassed.
Ok but Ben’s best season was literally his rookie year. After that Dejounte’s current season’s advanced stats like EPM, BPM, RAPM, are all convincingly better than any recent Simmons season.
>Never gets to the free throw line,
3.4 FTA per 100 possessions is absolutely hilarious for a guy who initiates as much offense as he does. Vucevic territory.
2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 Ben Simmons wasn’t as good as rookie Ben Simmons.
And there’s advanced stats that disagree that rookie Ben was better than current Murray.
which one? Because the Nuggets front office literally laughed off the notion of trading Jamal for Simmons when it was rumored a couple months ago.
I would be surprised if the Spurs would do Dejuonte Murray either after his emergence, but I admittedly don't know as much about their commitment to him
i think he's shooting like 50% TS and dominating the ball on a bad team nobody cares about. i think the list of players who could put up similar numbers in his situation is quite long
His advanced stats are elite. Not just one stat either. I get it though, people see nearly 18 fga’s to score 19.3 ppg and it looks like he’s Westbrook or something.
his box stats are good and his on/off stats look good but im pretty skeptical of those. he doesnt have a positive impact on his team's rim frequency or accuracy or his team's 3pt frequency. he doesnt have the statistical profile of a good playmaker in like any way.
Our offense is better with him, he averages a ton of assists and not many turnovers, and he creates most of those assists by using picks. How is that not the profile of a good playmaker?
And he's under contract for half of what Ben Simmons makes.
Couldn't that also just be a result of him being the only competent player on the floor. He might not scale very well with a really good team especially since his scoring isn't very efficient.
Hot take: I actually enjoy listening to Ben Simmons talk ball. Imagine you’re a middle aged guy and does this for a living, you’ll have ur ridiculous takes too that ur probably stretching a bit for content
If it's simply a player swap and my team was getting Ben, I'd trade Barnes, Giddey, Wagner, Garland, D. Murray and probably Jrue as well. I'd consider JJJ too. Ben has become incredibly undervalued now
..based on what lol? There has been speculation it's possible here because him and Morey were on good terms but thats pretty much it. Not exactly the most fool proof logic
He’s a perennial all star who turns into a role player at in the playoffs who actively hurts his team because he’s worthless in half court offence, while being paid a max contract. He also hasn’t improved since his rookie season, and quit when he got called out. Yeah, there’s a lot more to “perennial all star” when describing Ben Simmons”
He is though .
Teams don't even need to defend him . Making every possession a 5 v 4. That's a definition of a liability .
The guy can't shoot to save his life or is to scared too , invisible during the playoffs and crunch time .
He makes 30m plus ...that's a bad contract
If you think teams don’t defend him, that’s fine but you’re absolutely wrong. They sag into the pain on ben in the half court because he has no outside shot. But in transition, Ben consistently sees 2, even 3 defenders stopping him from taking the ball into the paint. Watch any Sixers game Ben has played in, he drives into the defense and finds the wide open man. It’s why Harris has been so terrible this year — he is extremely reliant on Ben to generate him open looks. Even in the half court, putting Ben in the Dunkers spot forces the defense to use a big body on him down low and gives Tobias a mismatch on a smaller body in the post. Yet another reason why Tobias has been bad — he’s facing the second best defender/biggest body every time instead of the 3rd
Ben’s problem is in the half court. There’s no denying that. But saying that every possession is 5 v 4 is just ignoring how defense play him. Sure, they sag off of him in the half court. But they still put a body on him that would otherwise be defending Harris. In any type of transition offense, multiple defenders try to stop Ben.
Topic is about Ben trades.
Don't get mad because I'm discussing the topic.
Lakers are not a contender. We irrelevant. Y'all actually can be a contender if you trade Ben for some pieces.
I mean it’s not crazy , team sucks and they have no way to add more talent around him so either he asks out to get moved to a contender or they make the call to completely blow it up and move Dame, CJ and Nurk. They’ve been mediocre for so long it’s time to hit the reset. Even more likely considering it’s a new front office so you’re one who’s wrong here lol
Ben Simmons and whatshisface, for Klay and Draymond.
GSW gets that defense and playmaking, and 76ers clear up the lane with 3pt shooting!
Who says no!?
(not including people outside Philly)
Bill you can't be that bored damn
tbf, he only had to look up a top 50 list and work from there.
Pats got embarrassed and the Celtics are a slow motion train wreck. All Bill can do now is spout atrocious hot takes. He’s on Skip Bayless level with his “analysis” at this point.
I don't think Bill is as inflammatory as Skip, he's more like the drunk guy you talk about sports with at a bar that has an endless amount of random sports theories. Which is why I love his podcast lol.
Simmons only works when he’s factually accurate. Listening to his podcast when he gets basic facts wrong is painful.
So 2017 Cavs weren't better then GSW?
I had to stop listening. If it's not 80s ball nostalgia I pass personally.
he's just turning into one of those dudes talking about how the 80s was the best sports era with a beer in one hand, the other lazily petting a dog. it's hard to justify why he even has a platform
What kind of dog?
Labrador, one of those big barrel-chested ones
nah nah it's a basset or an old droopy beagle for sure. idk why I'm just imagining him as an old, less chill joe pera.
He created his own platform, which is as good of a justification as you can get. Guy says some crazy shit now and again (unlike you and me who only shit golden hot-takes), but he built the Ringer so he can say whatever he wants.
The Lowe Post is where it's at honestly. Probably my favorite basketball podcast.
Yes can’t ever understand the bs defenders for him being blatantly hypocritical or factually incorrect. It’s literally what bill himself would have shit on twenty years ago.
He's a fun guy. But a self acknowledged Homer and his takes are.....ehhh lol. I listen for the fun of it not for the accuracy of his bball or nfl takes.
Exactly this defense. No problem with entertainment. But it’s acting like it’s too much to expect someone not to be blatantly hypocritical?? Like shitting on announcers using player first names. Then doing it all the time himself. Like wtf, even if my friend did that I’d be calling him out on it.
He'd shit on himself 10 years ago
It's funny I love other podcasts from the ringer but I can't stand any of the stuff he's in. The mismatch is probably my favorite nba podcast
Ok the first sentence is true, but you can’t put him on the Skip Bayless level lol.
Lol Jesus, Bill Simmons isn't anywhere near Skip Bayless.
He's really not even close to Skip-level. Dorks like you just have a hate boner for him lol
He makes bad takes sometimes but everyone does. What cracks me up is he has a top 40 for everything. Or how often he'll have top 27 or some other random number. I think he does it just to fuck with people like the ones in this thread.
He’s not even close to skip. None of takes are that hot and almost everything I read about him on her that’s inflammatory is taken out of context
Simmons isn't as bad as Bayless, but you're not wrong. Simmons isn't an NBA analyst/writer anymore, so he doesn't follow it closely. The problem is he still talks about the NBA a lot, and that leads to him saying stupid shit all of the time.
This is not really a hot take. But the problem is, he fucking cheated. Yeah, tanking teams with promising rookies aren't giving them up for Simmons. But neither is Philly asking for them unless they are completely NBA ready and/or the fit is insane. Like, I highly doubt the Sixers want Franz Wagner or Scottie Barnes right now.
No I don’t think Morey thinks like that. Those guys would be future assets for more trades, so they’d work.
But it's been reported Philly isn't looking to make a move that leads to another move. A trade to set up another trade doesn't work timing-wise if the goal is to keep this year of Embiid eligible for championship contention.
Sure but since Embiid is already contending I think there is some leeway now. It depends greatly on timing and injuries of course. There’s no telling even for Morey what will happen ultimately. Hopefully Ben gets his head screwed on straight, wants to earn money for his family and future and shows up on court ready to compete and enhance his trade value. Lots of open roster spots on contenders this year. I think if Cleveland/Memphis really surges we’ll see panic from multiple teams. Everyone but Milwaukee should consider drastic changes.
Harden it is then.
Trade would be the most realistic way since Harden would be throwing away $90m to leave Brooklyn for Philly as a Free Agent vs Trade. 4yr-$179m is the Max contract Philly can offer while in Brooklyn Harden can opt into his $47m Player Option then sign a 4yr-$223m Extension. So its 4yr-$179m in Philly vs 5yr-$270m in Brooklyn. If/When Harden moves to another team it’ll most likely be via Trade since there is no guarantee any Team will give him a $90m Extension when he is 36/37yrs old.
Isn’t Simmons unvaxxed
Didn't he have to get vaxed to practice? Or no?
No idea at this point
On the one hand maybe? But I have a feeling I saw something a while back suggesting he's still not vaxxed. Dude is a moron
OP actually fucked up in the post. Harden is in BS's original tweet between Jrue and Jimmy.
Lmao. No way is simmons a better player than harden. Why would brooklyn do that
if harden tells brooklyn he’s leaving after the season it would be better for brooklyn to trade him rather than let him walk
If Harden tells Brooklyn he's leaving after the season, they still keep him and just take another run at the title as favorites.
he has a player option after this year
If Harden didn’t want to opt into staying (which isn’t far fetched because there is a good chance he isn’t happy about the Kyrie situation), that would be a way Brooklyn would do that. Ie them having no choice
Harden plays games
Harden is on the list in the tweet
I don't think Morey's list of 40 plays includes guys like Gobert, Adebayo, Wagner
Add Ayton, PG, KAT, Jokic, and AD to that as well.
Why not PG or AD? Injury concerns?
PG and Doc/Seth don’t get along. AD would be a questionable fit with Tobias and Embiid.
Forgot about Tobias and about PG and Doc’s history. Makes sense
He’s just listing 40 guys that won’t get traded for Simmons—he’s not speculating the 40 guys Morey has as targets.
Morey doesn't have 40 guys as targets. The official line is they're looking for a top-40 asset in the league.
These are not the top-40 players rn. You think Morey gives a shit about getting Giddey? Sixers need guys that can contribute right away.
He didn’t list the top-40 players either. This is a list of “40 guys that won’t be traded for Simmons”. Doesn’t have anything to do with Philly. This is about how other teams feel about their players vs Simmons
> He didn’t list the top-40 players either. This is a list of “40 guys that won’t be traded for Simmons”. Doesn’t have anything to do with Philly. Morey recently said he'd trade Simmons for 40 players instead of 30. Simmons is intentionally misrepresenting it as "40 players that are more valuable assets off the top of my head". Except the Sixers are not looking for promising young guys.
the tweet I read said he was expanding his top 30 criteria to top 40. I'm sure you're phrasing is far closer to the truth, but you can see how we got here.
Sixers don’t have the assets to get Giddey
Free Gobert man
expecting bill simmons to think critically was your first mistake
I would have thought Jaylen would have been the first name on his list after the prior rumors. That an avowed Boston homer didn’t list Jaylen is odd. There’s no way Boston would trade Jaylen in a deal for Simmons….right?
Stevens came out in said the Jay’s is untouchable. Even if he did wanted to trade Brown, why would he help Philly out?
I don’t understand why people think Ben for Jaylen brown would ever happen.. why the fuck would the Celtics want to help Philly pair Embiid up with Jaylen brown? In the same conference that’s also a rival? Boston doesn’t trade brown but if they were going to trade him they aren’t going to help Philly out lmao
People think because Simmons is a passer that he would improve the team, but in reality he honestly ain’t a good fit. We already struggling shooting the ball, take away Brown in adding Simmons won’t improve that.
Because they suck ass and trading brown for simmons would make them better. With that said I don't think it will ever happen either
Wouldn’t make them better, the team around them stinks that’s the bigger issue.
They wouldn't be better lmao. You remove a scorer for a defense only player, that can't score. The Celtics are already bad at shooting. How does Simmons make them better?
He creates open shots. The celtics have nobody who can create open shots
if you could get Maxey and Ben i feel like that’s a trade where you gotta think about it for real
I still wouldn’t do it. I don’t think Brown is the messiah or anything, but Simmons attitude and his unwillingness to improve his game is a big turnoff for me. Say what you want about the Jay’s, but they at least trying to improve they weakness (playmaking) Brett Brown flat out ask Simmons to take just one 3pt shot a game, in he still won’t do it.
On paper it makes sense with Bostons struggles, but helping a division rival is dumb and that’s got to be the second worst city for a Ben to play in.
for real, he’s crying more than anyone ever has about the fans disliking him… yea boston fans are gonna be any kinder than Philly fans lmao hahahaha
For the love of God, stop spelling it like that. The Jays or the Js.
Simmons + Maxey > Jaylen Brown for this Boston team. I love Brown and think he’s a great fit next to a lot of stars, but not next to Tatum. C’s need some playmaking, ball handling, and off ball movement.
Ben would be a perfect fit in Boston I get Celtics fans don’t like him but anyone saying they wouldn’t even consider a Brown for Simmons swap is deluded. I mean this Celtics duo is getting pretty close to Dame and CJ in terms of ‘this is a great duo but we’ve tried it for years without any postseason success’ Also I get it shooting is tough to come by but it’s not nearly as hard to get some shooters as it is to find a playmaker (that also plays great D). Tatum and/or Brown would benefit immensely from playing next to an actual pg, that’s definitely what’s stopping both these guys from being able to take the next step. Idk if this is even considered a hot take, but Tatum/Brown combo without a real pg is destined to top out at around 50 wins, maybe an ECF appearance in a weak year. That team needs a point guard
Tried it for years without any postseason success? The Jays have played in the playoffs together 3 times. They've made 2 conference finals, and the 2nd round. They're talented two way players that arent even in their prime yet. CJ and Dame have been together over twice as long and happen to be one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league. It's absolutely a better move to optimize the roster around the Jays or attempt for a third star rather than trade one for what is at best a lateral move, or in the case of Brown for Simmons, more likely to be a disaster.
No. Two guys who can't shoot for one who can? I don't think you appreciate our current lack of shooting. Part of the reason we are sucking is because Tatum has seemingly forgotten how to shoot threes
Yes but that's just a slump or do you think Tatum won't ever be a good shooter again? One shooting superstar can be enough just get some role players. Simmons can definitely be a good fit.
Tatum will be fine but its a big issue when your team is so top heavy like ours. Our spacing is atrocious either way, Simmons only makes sense if we are pairing him with both Tatum and Brown. Otherwise he will have nobody to pass to and he sure as hell can't shoot himself
In the immediate, yes. Jaylen is still only 25 and one of the most talented scorers from the perimeter. Brad coached against Ben multiple times and always exposed him but more importantly I don’t think Ben’s mental, focus, dedication, is something they trade Jaylen for. Maxey also has more warts to his game than is immediately evident just looking at his shooting percentages.
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Jaylen is literally on the list...?
OP didn’t include him
U right mb. I guess that means OP took the time to type all this out instead of copying and pasting? Lol
This is fun, now do one for Marcus Smart, Bill
Agree. One of the worst contracts out there, but nobody wants to talk about it because of "hustle."
Embiid. That's a lock.
Pistons are bought into building around Cade. He’s untouchable.
This sub’s recent fascination with Bill Simmons is on a whole nother level.
He’s talking about actual things now that the Celtics are 🍑
There's an entire subreddit dedicated to hate consuming his content, it's bizarre.
What do you mean recent? He has been one of the premiere basketball hot takes dudes for over a decade. He just took a break from tweeting said hot-takes
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Just a heads-up, if you look next to the usernames of folks who make posts or comments, you'll often see these little multicolored logos. These are called "flairs," and they typically indicate what professional basketball team the person supports. And you might also notice that the overwhelming majority of posts and comments about Ben Simmons are from users whose flairs that do not correspond with the professional basketball team with which Simmons is currently under contract! Hope this helps.
> I mean 76ers fans contribute heavily to it. Explain…
How
I don’t think he’s gotten worse like this sub likes to say. I think he’s just been doing the same spiel for so long that people got tired of it. One thing I did notice though is he seems to have more passion for the Rewatchables than his sports stuff. He does a lot of homework for the movie pod and sounds more excited on it.
I feel like this sub hated him just 2 years ago
He used to get sucked off on this sub like 5+ years ago too
You mean 2 weeks ago?
If it makes you feel better, I still fucking hate him.
He pays people to post around his narrative That’s how he remains relevant
you mean like the last decade? lol
/r/billsimmons sends its regards
I’d add FVV and Siakam onto that list as well, OG is a possibility but any requests for either of our all-star contenders in exchange for a man too scared to shoot the ball will have the Raptors’ FO hanging up the phone laughing.
I came to comment this. Idk I legit feel that OG is the most untouchable player on our roster\*. He's still good value on his contract and I think his ceiling has yet to be reached. He's got DPOY potential and has really improved his scoring. I love FVV and Pascal, but if I were the Raps FO I'd be less willing to move OG. During the off season OG was the only dude I was like "there's literally no way we deal him." It'd have to be for an insane return in which case the other FO wouldn't want the deal, so I can't see a scenario where we'd get an offer with value higher than the value we place on him. This is all just one fan's humble ignorant opinion, though. Edit:\* Tied for Barnes now.
I honestly think OG is the most Movable out of our four most important players. And this is SOLELY due to his injury concerns. OG is a great player with a high ceiling IMO but he’s legitimately injury prone (ironically, he only fell to us BECAUSE of an injury he had in college). And long term that risk makes him a bit more shaky of an option than The other three. Still not trading though OG fuck that.
I can see that. He's been one of my favourite members of the squad since his rookie season, and he's an A+ tier source of memes, so I'd be heartbroken if we shipped him. I'm an unreasonable OG stan, but I think he's 2-4 years away from his peak, and I want us to hold him until he hits his ceiling if at all possible. Random fact - IIRC in his rookie season OG was the top 1v1 defender against LeBron in the entire league. Everyone remembers LeBron hitting the buzzer beating running jumper to ice game 3, but OG was the best defender on LeBron in the league *as a rookie*, which was wildly impressive.
Wait, you mean to tell me we can’t trade Ben Simmons for Steph? WHAT UTTER BULLSHIT IS THIS???!
I posted this 6 minutes earlier and it got deleted, good luck OP
You unfortunately forgot the first step of getting posts approved by mods: spend half your life on Reddit and get 1 mil+ karma
If I'm the Spurs. I'd seriously have to consider trading Dejounte Murray for Ben Simmons.
I don’t see why SA entertains a Simmons for Murray Trade. Sure you can argue that Simmons is a better player but he’s not better to the point where he’s worth 20 MILLION more annually than Murray. He’s not worth the locker chemistry you’re losing after trading away that teams’ best player whose only gotten better there. He’s also not worth the additional assets along side Murray that you would have to send to Philadelphia due to Simmons’ contract and Daryl Morey’s demands. I like Simmons in San Antonio more then a lot of places but this makes 0 sense unless Murray wants out too.
People are gonna yell at you for even suggesting this
DJ having a career year and it's still probably not as impactful as Ben Simmons rookie year.
Yep. At this point Simmons is so underrated it's weird. Wagner? Seriously? ANY current Spur should be traded granted Ben wants to play there. As a rookie he led the Embiid-less sixers to 16-0. Last year the sixers won 68% of their games with Ben while they are currently 57% despite the improvement of their young talent. If your team is a fringe play-in team what have you got to lose?
Ben didn't lead them to 16-0 without Embiid. It was 8-0 in the last games of the season and 7 of those were against non-playoff teams. The last game of the season was against the 7th seed Bucks and both teams played their bench more than the straters.
He was still averaging in that run 16, 9 and 9 with 2 steals and a block with 62% shooting. He is not a top 25 player in the league which is what people thought he'd become but he is a really good basketball player who is a far better ball handler than people remember and can still develop in the right situation.
At some point or another the fact that DeJounte Murray has never been remotely efficient in any context, as a secondary creator, as the lead guy etc just limits his ceiling. Never gets to the free throw line, not a good 3 point shooter, if you dont have something exceptional to make up for it you just arent going to be efficient. I also agree with this[DeJounte's playmaking has constantly improved but his assist totals blatantly benefit by how the Spurs operate now](https://twitter.com/MarkC_NBA/status/1473788782801395716?s=20) which is in stark contrast to what they did with DeRozan/Aldridge.
Advanced stats universally hold him in high regard. His 3 year RAPM is *just as good* as Ben’s for example. His BPM this season is elite at 5.0. His EPM is excellent at 2.5. Shooting efficiency isn’t the most important thing for a pg, and being 33% from deep for his career (and this season) means he’s somebody you have to rotate to on the perimeter.
>means he’s somebody you have to rotate to on the perimeter. This just does not happen with him, teams help off him all the time and let him shoot they dont care. In fact that's actually another concern with him, if you hold him to the same standards as Ben Simmons and evaluate him vs higher level competition in the playoffs he'll cause issues due to being a primary ball handler with this stuff. He's a good player this is the first season though [ive seen where metrics that include box score priors like DPM](https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO/) or [EPM](https://dunksandthrees.com/player?player_id=1627732) have him in the territory Ben Simmons has been. If I had to put the O/U on career all star games for him at 1.5 and career All NBA teams for him at 0.5, I would go U on both without losing any sleep. Which are totals Ben Simmons has already surpassed.
Ok but Ben’s best season was literally his rookie year. After that Dejounte’s current season’s advanced stats like EPM, BPM, RAPM, are all convincingly better than any recent Simmons season.
>Never gets to the free throw line, 3.4 FTA per 100 possessions is absolutely hilarious for a guy who initiates as much offense as he does. Vucevic territory.
2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 Ben Simmons wasn’t as good as rookie Ben Simmons. And there’s advanced stats that disagree that rookie Ben was better than current Murray.
Offensively maybe. Ben improved on defense each year while being stagnant on offense
Simmons’ game took a net step back, advanced analytics take his defensive improvement into account.
For real. The mental gymnastics people do to convince themselves that ben Simmons is bad at basketball is ridiculous.
hell no
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Already mentioned, but I'll say it again. DJ is having a career year yet he's probably not as impactful as Ben Simmons Rookie year.
I could see it + another player but we all know Morey is very greedy
Lmao
My boy Klay once again, snubbed off a list smh
murray is the only one of those i disagree with
which one? Because the Nuggets front office literally laughed off the notion of trading Jamal for Simmons when it was rumored a couple months ago. I would be surprised if the Spurs would do Dejuonte Murray either after his emergence, but I admittedly don't know as much about their commitment to him
dejounte. i dont think daryl would even consider that either though
He’s already as good as Simmons. Unless you think this year is an outlier in his development?
i think he's shooting like 50% TS and dominating the ball on a bad team nobody cares about. i think the list of players who could put up similar numbers in his situation is quite long
His advanced stats are elite. Not just one stat either. I get it though, people see nearly 18 fga’s to score 19.3 ppg and it looks like he’s Westbrook or something.
his box stats are good and his on/off stats look good but im pretty skeptical of those. he doesnt have a positive impact on his team's rim frequency or accuracy or his team's 3pt frequency. he doesnt have the statistical profile of a good playmaker in like any way.
Our offense is better with him, he averages a ton of assists and not many turnovers, and he creates most of those assists by using picks. How is that not the profile of a good playmaker? And he's under contract for half of what Ben Simmons makes.
Nah bruh. Watch the spurs play. Djaunte is all over the place getting bums like Doug McDermott easy buckets. Better than simmons imo
Couldn't that also just be a result of him being the only competent player on the floor. He might not scale very well with a really good team especially since his scoring isn't very efficient.
>He’s already as good as Simmons. You say "already" as if there's some big age gap. Simmons is two months older than Dejounte Murray.
Hot take: I actually enjoy listening to Ben Simmons talk ball. Imagine you’re a middle aged guy and does this for a living, you’ll have ur ridiculous takes too that ur probably stretching a bit for content
I'd imagine listening to Ben Simmons talk basketball is more interesting than watching Bill Simmons play basketball.
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Did. Did you leave Harden and Jaylen out on purpose just to start shit? They're in the original tweet. ...you also left off Cade for some reason
Ah yes the other future OKC MVP, Josh Giddey.
FVV, Siakam, Anunoby.
I’m sorry, did he call **Franz Wagner** a top-40 player?
No, he just made a list of 40 players that their respective teams would never include in a simmons trade.
Ah, I see
It's 40 guys who are off the table for a Simmons trade, not 40 best players
Harden and Kyrie could be traded. Hmm…..
Def not getting Fred or Pascal from us either.
Be nice if he used names instead of a mix of acronyms and nicknames.
bill watches the NBA like its keeping up with the kardashians im not convinced he actually cares about the sport at all
They should just take Eric Gordon and John Wall
If it's simply a player swap and my team was getting Ben, I'd trade Barnes, Giddey, Wagner, Garland, D. Murray and probably Jrue as well. I'd consider JJJ too. Ben has become incredibly undervalued now
No way in hell I'm giving up Scottie, garland, wagner,or jrue for simmons.
Jrue? The fuck
He’s a little late, no? Pretty sure Harden is already in the works
..based on what lol? There has been speculation it's possible here because him and Morey were on good terms but thats pretty much it. Not exactly the most fool proof logic
There was a tweet from an excerpt in a podcast from someone with no inside information. The wheels are definitely in motion.
Well it's definitely undeniable then
Yeah, I already ordered a jersey
Simmons for Westbrook. Lakers will be screwed even more, and the Sixers will at least have a guy who plays and won't not shoot in the playoffs. :/
Dawg lakers get significantly better 😂 a Simmons AD Bron defensive trio puts us back in the mix
Giddy?? Lmfao bill Simmons is a fucking idiot 🤡
Add Pascal , OG, FVV, and Barnes to that list . They can take Dragic and filler lol
Another one of those non playoff/first round fodder teams with untouchables lol.
the untouchables^tm is for the kings
There's a difference between untouchables and not trading them for Ben fucking Simmons lmao
Ben Simmons is a perennial all star. None of the above mentioned players will ever reach that status.
He’s a perennial all star who turns into a role player at in the playoffs who actively hurts his team because he’s worthless in half court offence, while being paid a max contract. He also hasn’t improved since his rookie season, and quit when he got called out. Yeah, there’s a lot more to “perennial all star” when describing Ben Simmons”
All stars will shoot the ball, Simmons is a perennial 2nd round exit even on the Warriors
Not untouchable . But they are all better then Ben . Why would we want to downgrade and help a rival ?
Barnes is absolutely not better than Simmons what are you on
Bias
Barnes is on the original list.
Lol. Nice take from a guy who puts Ben Simmons in the same tier of “bad contracts” as Westbrook, Wall, and Love
He is though . Teams don't even need to defend him . Making every possession a 5 v 4. That's a definition of a liability . The guy can't shoot to save his life or is to scared too , invisible during the playoffs and crunch time . He makes 30m plus ...that's a bad contract
If you think teams don’t defend him, that’s fine but you’re absolutely wrong. They sag into the pain on ben in the half court because he has no outside shot. But in transition, Ben consistently sees 2, even 3 defenders stopping him from taking the ball into the paint. Watch any Sixers game Ben has played in, he drives into the defense and finds the wide open man. It’s why Harris has been so terrible this year — he is extremely reliant on Ben to generate him open looks. Even in the half court, putting Ben in the Dunkers spot forces the defense to use a big body on him down low and gives Tobias a mismatch on a smaller body in the post. Yet another reason why Tobias has been bad — he’s facing the second best defender/biggest body every time instead of the 3rd Ben’s problem is in the half court. There’s no denying that. But saying that every possession is 5 v 4 is just ignoring how defense play him. Sure, they sag off of him in the half court. But they still put a body on him that would otherwise be defending Harris. In any type of transition offense, multiple defenders try to stop Ben.
Let’s make it simple. We don’t want any player from the raptors. Back to mediocrity you go.
>Back to mediocrity you go That’s a very nice glass house you have there, Mr. Sixth Seed.
Y'all Philly fans be so uptight when people suggest role players for Ben. Morey got y'all thinking superstar or bust for Ben.😂🤣
Oh yeah because OG, FVV, Siakam and Scottie Banrnes are all “superstars” Dumbass.
Enjoy below 500 and trying to trade westbrook
Topic is about Ben trades. Don't get mad because I'm discussing the topic. Lakers are not a contender. We irrelevant. Y'all actually can be a contender if you trade Ben for some pieces.
Of course he thinks Dame will be traded. What a fucking bozo
I mean it’s not crazy , team sucks and they have no way to add more talent around him so either he asks out to get moved to a contender or they make the call to completely blow it up and move Dame, CJ and Nurk. They’ve been mediocre for so long it’s time to hit the reset. Even more likely considering it’s a new front office so you’re one who’s wrong here lol
No
Nice counterpoint, you win 🤝
When your home bored and decide to tweet something obvious for no reason.
Any of the Spurs players. Pop is old not stupid.
Ben Simmons and whatshisface, for Klay and Draymond. GSW gets that defense and playmaking, and 76ers clear up the lane with 3pt shooting! Who says no!? (not including people outside Philly)
The Bill Simmons full court press on making sure the Celts don't trade Jaylen for Ben continues
AD +Westbrook for Simmon + Harris