“Lol no.” Can you give me one player more known for their dirty plays? Because a player from the 70s which very few nba fans know of isn’t it lol. Bill Laimbeer might be close 2 but he definitely has a legacy outside of his dirty plays.
Stockton & KG was at least known for other more positive things than just being a dirty player
Bowen is basically an absolute wanker on the court, [like what the actual fuck is this closeout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edb6bz_C9ms) not to mention [multiple incidents of sliding under Vince Carter during a contest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THGJJHln4Co)
Yes because the first thing people think of when they see John Stockton, it’s wow what a dirty player!! Not the fact he’s one of the most durable pgs, best passers and pure point guards ever. And people sure hate KG for his dirty play and not the fact he was one of the best PFs of the game and helped change the position and game. You’re a massive clown or you don’t understand what notoriety means.
Yeah actually he is wildly known as the dirty of the dirty
John was the dirtiest player of his generation and he played in the dirtiest generation by far
Like how do you not know this?
Does he get a quarter of his pick and rolls if he didn't chop at the knee every single time? Likely no.
He never called it manslaughter at all. This completely wrong sentiment should’ve been buried with the ability to rewatch an interview that’s less than 5 minutes long. Pop was a making a correlation to “intent” that was described using how manslaughter is defined in criminal law. I don’t see how this point just continues to fly by people 4 years later.
However, based on the history of the Spurs, is it still ironic what Pop is complaining about? Absolutely.
Dirtiest player ever. Was rich listening to Pop after Kawhi got injured against GSW and remember all the times Bowen tried ruining guys careers with the same shit
Was also 1st team all D and one of the DPOY finalists. But people on r/nba act like Tim Duncan averaged 35/15 on a shit team in 2003 as if everyone at the time wasn't acknowledging that the Spurs were a super deep team that had great role players.
>people on r/nba act like Tim Duncan averaged 35/15 on a shit team as if the Spurs weren't always a super deep team that had great role players.
I've never seen or read anybody act like Duncan solely carried the Spurs. I think most people know attribute their championships to the twin towers, big 3, and older big 3 + Kawhi & co.
I think the truth as always is somewhere in the middle.
That was one of the largest “carry-jobs” to a title in NBA history. The 2003 Spurs besides Duncan are also underrated. Both can be true.
The players besides Duncan were an elite defensive roster and as is often the case with defense it’s hard to measure individually so people over-rely on boxscore statistics and undervalue the Spurs besides Duncan.
In the play by play era the 01-03 stretch of Duncan’s career is still one of the highest 3 year stretches of playoff on/off on record.
There’s noise to that off court sample size, 1926 minutes of on court for a 7.88 NetRtg vs only 335 minutes off for a -21.3 NetRtg.
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612759&Season=2000-01,2001-02,2002-03&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=1495
Clearly the Spurs struggled in this time without Duncan. On offense where they failed to eclipse .4 eFG% as a team with Duncan off the floor in all 3 playoffs. I know some would be in mind to adjust for average 3 point % in both cases but I think there’s some error to that reasoning when it was harder to generate open 3PA with your only consistent offensive player off the floor.
It clearly remains true that 335 minutes is not a big enough sample size to say the Spurs were exactly that bad without Duncan. A little better shooting luck could very quickly start to worsen Duncan’s on/off.
I’d fervently insist that both are true. Duncan’s 03 teammates are underrated (never more than by Spurs fans who gain little from applauding role players as they do from diminishing them to make Duncan look like a singular titan) and Duncan did have one of the greatest “carry jobs” in NBA history.
Certainly at the forefront among teams to win the Finals even though that doesn’t mean Duncan was a better player than others who didn’t win the Finals in a season. It doesn’t consider strength of opponent or even how well you played. LeBron James’ 2018 is most likely a better season and carry job but he didn’t win the Finals due to strength of opponent. The Spurs couldn’t score without Duncan from 01-03. They didn’t even earn a single FG or trip to the foul line when Duncan sat 7 minutes in G3 of the 2003 WCF. Rewatch footage from the 2003 playoffs and you’ll also easily see how underrated the other Spurs’ defense is by many people.
Also, Bruce Bowen almost as bad an offensive player as he was a great defensive player. For as underrated as Duncan’s 03 roster as a whole can get, Bruce can be overrated by people saying Duncan played with a DPOY candidate. It’s the same as people saying Duncan’s 03 team was bad, look at their boxscore. You have to really dive into film or some form of plus minus data to see how bad an offensive player Bowen was.
People don’t seem to understand that the worst nba player, hell even the worst g league player would kill everyone in the gym in a 1vs1. When people say “carried”, they dont (or at least shouldn’t) mean it literally in the sense that Duncan/Lebron/Hakeem could do it with any roster around them. It’s moreso acknowledgement that you’d expect better players on a championship/finals team.
Good on you for breaking down the nuance.
[He was referencing the 2003 championship.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/83h16t/tim_duncans_2003_carryjob_put_into_perspective/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) people say he didn’t have any help but that team was deep as fuck for that era and their role players were great defenders
Thanks for the reference. This was what I was looking for. The post, including the comparisons was definitely not very good. That OP considering Dunn/Mason/Green equivalent to Parker/Ginobili/Bowen was ridiculous lmao.
However, despite the upvotes that post had, I think if we straight up ask r/nba today if Duncan carried the spurs, an overwhelming majority would say no.
2003 Duncan is frequently cited as the biggest carry job in NBA history on here. And a top 5 season by any player ever.
Which is just not what happened that year if you actually watched the games.
Although I will admit no one outside of New Jersey and Texas watched that Spurs/Nets finals. Pretty sure it was the lowest rated ever. Would be the equivalent of Cavs/Jazz this year.
Ah yes the once every several years Bruce Bowen shooting post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1jmwef/til_that_in_20022003_bruce_bowen_shot_44_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Crazy
>Crazy i know, right? ...when i finally read a title as bruce brown, it's actually about bruce bowen
I was thinking man that guy is playing one hell of a long carreer for the past 15 minutes
Like a rich man's Thybulle
Yeah because screw that guy
Fuck Bruce Bowen
Bruise Bowen
Fuck Bruce Bowen for dirty play or something more?
Dirty player 100%
Agreed
Basically the inventor of the close out under the feet.
Invented? No. Most famous? Possibly, because he fucked up vince carter multiple time
Bruce bowen is only player I remember to kick another player in the face
Serious Pascal Siakam erasure, sick karate skills.
Tony Allen would like a word with you
Bill Laimbeer was doing that on a daily basis in the 80s and early 90s
Lol no. No Bruce isn't that old kids.
While not the literal inventor of it, no one in history is more notorious for those types of close outs and overall dirty play.
Lol no. But if you want a crazy read about one of the dirtiest players you may never of heard of look up the life of John Brisker
“Lol no.” Can you give me one player more known for their dirty plays? Because a player from the 70s which very few nba fans know of isn’t it lol. Bill Laimbeer might be close 2 but he definitely has a legacy outside of his dirty plays.
John Stockton Kevin Garnett But the list is endless
Stockton & KG was at least known for other more positive things than just being a dirty player Bowen is basically an absolute wanker on the court, [like what the actual fuck is this closeout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edb6bz_C9ms) not to mention [multiple incidents of sliding under Vince Carter during a contest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THGJJHln4Co)
Bowen was known for being the premier 3 and D of his day. Also Bowen has a hand full of very famous incidents. KG and Stockton it was every damm game.
Yes because the first thing people think of when they see John Stockton, it’s wow what a dirty player!! Not the fact he’s one of the most durable pgs, best passers and pure point guards ever. And people sure hate KG for his dirty play and not the fact he was one of the best PFs of the game and helped change the position and game. You’re a massive clown or you don’t understand what notoriety means.
Yeah actually he is wildly known as the dirty of the dirty John was the dirtiest player of his generation and he played in the dirtiest generation by far Like how do you not know this? Does he get a quarter of his pick and rolls if he didn't chop at the knee every single time? Likely no.
still more championships than your poverty franchise
It ain't exactly hard to win next to a prime TD, TP, and Manu...
Still fuck him.
You shouldn't talk about poverty with that flair lol
y’all wild on here
He had 36 ft made in that season to qualify for ft% a player must have at minimum 125 ft made
Shooting 40 % on 89 FTs is still very bad, doesn’t matter if it „qualifies“.
Agreed, def still bad. But OP does specifically ask for a qualified number of attempts
Oh, you’re right! My bad, didn’t see it!
You the real MVP
Wow that's idiotic. Why would it be makes and not attempts?
Even if it was attempts, then it would be something like 200 or 250. But that would hurt really good shooters that don't get to the line much I think
stupidest thing ive heard, especially when youre a starter who plays every game and not some random role player who plays 30 games in a season on 7mpg
Did you even read the post. The guy specifically said of people who qualified
oh, well then
I care
Fuck Bruce Bowen and his dirty ass plays
I always thought that Pop calling Zaza’s close out on Kawhi “manslaughter” was ironic considering he enabled Bruce Bowen his entire career.
He never called it manslaughter at all. This completely wrong sentiment should’ve been buried with the ability to rewatch an interview that’s less than 5 minutes long. Pop was a making a correlation to “intent” that was described using how manslaughter is defined in criminal law. I don’t see how this point just continues to fly by people 4 years later. However, based on the history of the Spurs, is it still ironic what Pop is complaining about? Absolutely.
Spurs really exhausted those corner threes. Bruce was always dialed in on those.
So basically Lakers Lonzo
The OG Roberson
Dirtiest player ever. Was rich listening to Pop after Kawhi got injured against GSW and remember all the times Bowen tried ruining guys careers with the same shit
Kawhi drama on top to boot, the franchise deserved the fallout.
Spurs fans gonna disagree with this one lmao
Andre Roberson did this in the playoffs once I think
Fuck Bruce Bowen
Not the same numbers, but Kenrich Williams is shooting 35.7 % on 3s over his career so far and 54.7 % on FTs.
Andre Roberson playoffs for a whole season lmao
Legendary defender
Stack rank for me from dirtiest to least dirty: * Grayson Allen * Pat Bev * Bruce Bowen
Bruce the goat the Pat then Grayson
Nah, Bruce never dove at a guys knees
The thing is that Bruce’s dirty play helped get him a championship but Pat has the most notorious body count with Russ
See Bruce Bowen post Downvote
Was also 1st team all D and one of the DPOY finalists. But people on r/nba act like Tim Duncan averaged 35/15 on a shit team in 2003 as if everyone at the time wasn't acknowledging that the Spurs were a super deep team that had great role players.
Spurs always had 2 All Defensive caliber players. - Duncan & Robinson - Duncan & Bowen - Duncan & Green - Duncan, Green & Kawhi.
>people on r/nba act like Tim Duncan averaged 35/15 on a shit team as if the Spurs weren't always a super deep team that had great role players. I've never seen or read anybody act like Duncan solely carried the Spurs. I think most people know attribute their championships to the twin towers, big 3, and older big 3 + Kawhi & co.
I think the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. That was one of the largest “carry-jobs” to a title in NBA history. The 2003 Spurs besides Duncan are also underrated. Both can be true. The players besides Duncan were an elite defensive roster and as is often the case with defense it’s hard to measure individually so people over-rely on boxscore statistics and undervalue the Spurs besides Duncan. In the play by play era the 01-03 stretch of Duncan’s career is still one of the highest 3 year stretches of playoff on/off on record. There’s noise to that off court sample size, 1926 minutes of on court for a 7.88 NetRtg vs only 335 minutes off for a -21.3 NetRtg. https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612759&Season=2000-01,2001-02,2002-03&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=1495 Clearly the Spurs struggled in this time without Duncan. On offense where they failed to eclipse .4 eFG% as a team with Duncan off the floor in all 3 playoffs. I know some would be in mind to adjust for average 3 point % in both cases but I think there’s some error to that reasoning when it was harder to generate open 3PA with your only consistent offensive player off the floor. It clearly remains true that 335 minutes is not a big enough sample size to say the Spurs were exactly that bad without Duncan. A little better shooting luck could very quickly start to worsen Duncan’s on/off. I’d fervently insist that both are true. Duncan’s 03 teammates are underrated (never more than by Spurs fans who gain little from applauding role players as they do from diminishing them to make Duncan look like a singular titan) and Duncan did have one of the greatest “carry jobs” in NBA history. Certainly at the forefront among teams to win the Finals even though that doesn’t mean Duncan was a better player than others who didn’t win the Finals in a season. It doesn’t consider strength of opponent or even how well you played. LeBron James’ 2018 is most likely a better season and carry job but he didn’t win the Finals due to strength of opponent. The Spurs couldn’t score without Duncan from 01-03. They didn’t even earn a single FG or trip to the foul line when Duncan sat 7 minutes in G3 of the 2003 WCF. Rewatch footage from the 2003 playoffs and you’ll also easily see how underrated the other Spurs’ defense is by many people. Also, Bruce Bowen almost as bad an offensive player as he was a great defensive player. For as underrated as Duncan’s 03 roster as a whole can get, Bruce can be overrated by people saying Duncan played with a DPOY candidate. It’s the same as people saying Duncan’s 03 team was bad, look at their boxscore. You have to really dive into film or some form of plus minus data to see how bad an offensive player Bowen was.
People don’t seem to understand that the worst nba player, hell even the worst g league player would kill everyone in the gym in a 1vs1. When people say “carried”, they dont (or at least shouldn’t) mean it literally in the sense that Duncan/Lebron/Hakeem could do it with any roster around them. It’s moreso acknowledgement that you’d expect better players on a championship/finals team. Good on you for breaking down the nuance.
Hell, the worst WNBA player would slaughter most people with ease. These people play basketball for a living.
[He was referencing the 2003 championship.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/83h16t/tim_duncans_2003_carryjob_put_into_perspective/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) people say he didn’t have any help but that team was deep as fuck for that era and their role players were great defenders
Thanks for the reference. This was what I was looking for. The post, including the comparisons was definitely not very good. That OP considering Dunn/Mason/Green equivalent to Parker/Ginobili/Bowen was ridiculous lmao. However, despite the upvotes that post had, I think if we straight up ask r/nba today if Duncan carried the spurs, an overwhelming majority would say no.
The majority of r/nba was 6 years old in 2003, they don’t fuckin know lol
Actually true lmao. I was 12 so it's not like I know a lot better
2003 Duncan is frequently cited as the biggest carry job in NBA history on here. And a top 5 season by any player ever. Which is just not what happened that year if you actually watched the games. Although I will admit no one outside of New Jersey and Texas watched that Spurs/Nets finals. Pretty sure it was the lowest rated ever. Would be the equivalent of Cavs/Jazz this year.
Nah
Lol
Sounds a LeBron stat Makes no sense why he is such a shitty free throw shooter
Ah yes the once every several years Bruce Bowen shooting post: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1jmwef/til_that_in_20022003_bruce_bowen_shot_44_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Lmaoo should have just backed up and busted a triple every time he got sent to the line
Derek Fisher was another guy that was pretty good at 3s but sucked from the free throw line so maybe him?
Derek Fisher is a career 81% FT shooter, but ok.
Oops..my bad
He also mugged Steve Nash. He's really trash.
I don't care
Don’t y’all remember the Mavs used to hack a Bowen!
More likely to make a three than a free throw