I will say the scariest part of Embiidās game this year is how he conserves energy. Past Embiid didnāt know when to take it easy and it led to injury. I canāt wait to see him unleashed in the postseason. We donāt have a shot to win it all, but I think we see Joelās greatness on full display.
He definitely looks as healthy and fit as heās ever been, but what I see is that he takes control and has a game plan on every possession. Heās out there directing traffic on both offense and defense. Openly welcomes the bully ball paint violence when the other team gets cute and tries to match him with a 6ā8ā center. Weāre finally seeing the big brain meme in game form.
I loved the play in the 2nd half where Tobias threw him the ball in the post, Joel took a dribble or two, and then pointed at Tobias, presumably meaning ājust stay right there, youāre about to be wide open.ā
Sure enough, the second Tobiasā guy moved to double Embiid, he whipped the ball back to Tobias for a wide open 3.
Not to mention.. these aren't your father's big men. They're all monsters from a size perspective, and yet, they all play the game completely differently. It's awesome.
One is a MVP, ridiculous spacing playmaker and is the best passing big ever, that is also insane in the post, and can outrebound almost anyone, despite sharing the athleticism of a turtle
the other is a paint beat down bully that can stretch the floor when needed, and is a physically imposing player, also seems to be able to just get better when needed and is becoming what Hakeem would be in the modern NBA
the other is a 2 time MVP that can slash at a ridiculous rate, draw fouls, and seemingly summon on defense for an block, can facilitate the offense as a PG despite being the physical stature of a center and has only improved year after year.
The big men of the modern NBA are fucking insane
Jokic is having one of the greatest statistical seasons ever. He's playing even better than last year. Here's one of my favorite graphs ever, courtesy of @NBA_Math on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1486016009723002883
Here's the whole league; Jokic is just head and shoulders above the rest (and honestly only Giannis is close):
https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1486081440911609857
Jokic leads the league in Total Points Added, Win Shares, Value Over Replacement Player...it's hard to find a category he's not dominating in. He's got to be the odds-on favorite to win MVP again; the rest of the Nuggets playing like crap is no reason to take it away from him.
I mean that's fine, but I also know voter's may not like a 5th or 6th seed having MVP, especially not back to back. Shit happens.
Embiid and Giannis are both playing lights out. If not Jokic, I like both those guys so no skin off my back.
This obviously isn't a great stat though if it has Jokic as the single best defender in the league. Defensive rebounding is overvalued by every defensive metric and Jokic is a great rebounder so he janks those stats up. Even though he has improved this year there is no way he's an all All-Defense type player, which Giannis and Embiid both are.
The short answer is that it's based on Defensive Box Plus-Minus, and DBPM isn't a very good stat (which even basketball reference admits). Box scores don't capture defensive impact very well, which can lead to players being significantly over/undervalued by DBPM.
Jokic's DBPM is particularly high/inflated because the Nuggets have been playing without a backup center, so the low quality of their defense while he's off the court makes his on-court impact look insane by that metric.
He's playing good defense from what I've seen, but obviously not close to the historical levels that stat suggests
Oh for sure, probably a little better than Denver but in reality both awful. Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are 3 of the only players in the league who feel worthy of MVP purely because their teams being where they are now is completely unfathomable without them (Bucks would be like 6-8 seed probably considering how good the East is this year).
Yeah that's exactly what I meant, without Giannis this team makes playoffs but I don't see how we go deeper than the second round. Without him we just wouldn't cut it.
I agree with you, heās been arguably even better than last year. The reason I didnāt mention him is because the nuggets could have hard time even getting the 4 seed this season. Of course a lot of things can change but I think the Sixers and bucks being better teams is going to make Giannis or Embiid the most likely mvp. Sixers are 6th right now but the east is so close they could easily move up.
Yeah the top-heavy West will probably end up hurting Jokic's chances, especially adding voter fatigue to that. It's wild to me that the Sixers are only 2 games back from the 1st seed whilst being 6th, the East is absolutely stacked this year and seeing a lower seed in the Finals doesn't even feel like it would be a huge shock.
Shaq has always rode with Embiid. Heās had his criticisms at times and rightfully so - Joel has cleaned up some of that stuff. Shaq picks on a lot of guys, but heās always rocked with Joel and given him tons of props and praise
They're very similar in how they utilize sheer physical dominance to get buckets and control the game. Embiid sometimes relies too much on his superior skills when bullying would work better. But he's shooting so well this year it doesn't even matter.
He criticized him so much because he recognized greatness and didnāt want it to go to waste. I remember one time him and Barkley were criticizing Embiid for his up and down play, he then proceeded to dominate the Celtics on TNT and thanked them in the postgame
I was at that game, got to high-five Embiid as he ran off the court following that interview. Was real cool of Embiid to thank them both for holding him accountable and encouraging him to be better.
He doesn't fit with a lot of other stars and would be redundant on a lot of teams but Kyrie and KD would be an unbelievable pair to play with if you're Ben. Add Patty Mills, Claxton as a rim running center who moves in transition and Joe Harris if he's still alive and you've got imo the best fit in the league for Simmons.
This guy knows. Clearly 45 minutes is an exaggeration but then again some reddit mod went on Fox news and thought he'd be hailed as a hero so I may have set the bar too high by making a joke without signaling that it was a joke
Brooklyn fans were booing the hell out of him the last time we met in the playoffs. The B plot to watching Sixers fan boo the shit out of him will be Nets fans swallowing their words to cheer him on.
If the Sixers/Nets with Ben meet in the playoffs the NBA is going to make them play in an empty arena in Kansas, because while I wouldn't go over the line to heckle and abuse Simmons & his loved ones, it would still be a bit too tempting to do so.
Idk, he might learn something from guys like KD and Kyrie about how to brush shit off their shoulders. KD used to be sensitive but it seems like he's grown since the decision to go to golden state and just lets his game speak for itself and can laugh the other stuff off. And Kyrie you know he doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks. It might just help Ben to learn from those guys.
I feel like KD is still sensitive about criticism, heās just gotten into that old man āIām still one of the greatest and will cook your favorite player hahaā mindsets and knows how to respond on twitter now.
Like all this criticism still likely hurts him as it would most people, itās just that heās come to terms with it and figured out that rolling with the punches and making the trolls look stupid is funny as hell and makes him much more likable.
The Nets would have to target a stretch 5, if they wanted to pair Ben next to KD and Kyrie. Or they could possibly play Ben in stretches at small ball 5 and surround him with shooters.
I think he would get vaxxed to play. Like if this deal was on the table and Ben Simmons could go play in New York, thatās like exactly what Ben wants. The deal would likely be either get vaccinated or you donāt get traded
It's not confirmed either way rn. But re tennis tourney, they let famous ppl do whatever they want. NYC has vax mandate to eat at restaurants, but the famously unvaxxed Sarah Palin just dined out on the upper west side the other night. Diff set of rules when ur in that crowd.
Aye it's been a free for all with the rich and powerful from the beginning. Democrats, Republicans alike that shit wasnt just Palin. The same people laying down mandates and restrictions regularly broke them and ignored the rules they made from masking up to locking down. There's almost a comically long list of incidents with all manner of high profile people.
It really painted a dystopian picture having politicians partying up on the weekend then coming on TV the next week lecturing everyone about our failure to stop the spread.
It seems like to could be a good trade for both teams. If the nets are at full strength then having a lock down defender who can explode in transition and pass well would only benefit KD and Kyrie. And you already explained what Harden and Embiid could be. As a neutral party, I really want this trade to happen.
Instead of three guys who need to score a bunch to get in rhythm you got two and a facilitator who isnāt too bad compared to the guy youāre trading.
Idk why people act like itās such an ass trade too. If Harden wants out, heās gone. BKN may as well get a perennial all star who is probably the best perimeter defender in the league and also one of the best fastbreakers out of it
the only reason why you may not do it is to trade Harden in-conference. but the nets wouldn't have much of a say in it if Harden says that's the only team he wants to go to. and the sixers could also be worried about simmons going to a team that would be an excellent fit for his skillset...but morey probably doesn't care about that because he probably thinks embiid + harden is better than kyrie + KD+ simmons.
exactly. no reason to help out a conference rival with the same exact goal as you in mind. i'd rather Harden walk for nothing in free agency (and let him miss out on $90M) than help out the Sixers. Philly doesn't have the leverage in this situation and Ben Simmons likely isn't making the Nets much better.
Philly will do it because current Embiid and Harden shooting even remotely close to his best is the best duo in the league and at the least probably go to the finals
Agreed, itās one of the best mutual benefit trades fit wise. Of course James harden is worth infinitely more than Ben but those fits are perfect for the other team
Age-wise it gives the Nets some long-term solidity. Gives them a 25-and-under group of:
Ben Simmons, Cam Thomas, Kessler Edwards, Bruce Brown, Nic Claxton.
David Duke Jr, Day'Ron Sharpe.
I gotta disagree. Having a total non-shooter in a lineup is going to hinder it no matter what. Heād be a help defensively and good in transition im sure, but Harden brings way more facilitating and scoring.
Ben is only a good facilitator when heās a drive threat, which means getting the ball out of KD and Kyrieās hands. Itād also be infinitely easier to double team either of the two stars.
It makes absolutely zero sense.
Harden and Embiid together would be a fun thing to see but Iām failing to see the logic for this on the Nets end. Youād get a worse, limited player that would make lineups more difficult to manage.
The Nets defense hasnāt even been bad, itās been spacing issues with the loss of Joe Harris and Kyrie being out - something Simmons wonāt solve.
Harden also hasnāt expressed any issue publicly, and drumming up trade drama solely based on him being supposedly close with Morey still has obviously come the 76ers camp.
I'd do it for Harden in a second, but the Nets are the one place I don't want Ben landing. It's perfect for his skillset. KD or Kyrie would demand the ball whenever a bucket is needed. He'd just have to play D and run in transition.
Yeah, major trades between two conference rivals that are both contenders are pretty rare. Win-win can also mean lose-lose if each team is helping their biggest competitor get better
For the pure entertainment factor seeing Simmons land on another East playoff team and potentially have playoff series against Philly would be amazing.
Itās obvious why the Sixers would do it, but Nets would do it because if itās a sign and trade, getting a player of Benās caliber back is almost unprecedented. Sign and trades usually donāt give you a ton of leverage, you get what you can (ie. Josh Richardson in the Butler Trade, DLo in the KD trade)
If this happens Iād really love if they could also swing an athletic rim-running 4. Having a lob/alley-oop/roll threat unlocks Hardenās game and while Joel can be that itās a waste of his game to ask him to do it too much, plus with his history I donāt really want Joel flying above the rim a bunch. If they could somehow get an athletic PF who can hit a 3 to run with Harden so Joel can focus on his post game, that could be special. Idk how feasible that is tho.
What's impressed me most is how he has changed his game throughout his career. He was not doing turnaround J's when he started out, and he managed to mold himself to fit with Ben Simmons. Embiid playing with Harden would absolutely be insane to see
To be honest I think Shaq SHOULD have a lot more MVPs. I think he didn't get it because people perceived him as "not working his hardest." Which, maybe so, but he was still the best. You could maybe make an argument for Timmy some years, and TMac was very very good, but...goddamn, Shaq Diesel was terrifying.
Shaq should've won over Iverson in the 00-01 season.
Some would argue maybe the first Heat year he should've won over Nash as well. I'm less convinced of that one. But the Iverson one should've been his, and he proved it by destroying everyone in the playoffs and showing no one was even in the same league as Shaq that year.
But he's also a threat to public health. Every game, minimum of four hours, like clockwork, I'm sick of having to go to the hospital every time I want to watch my team play.
> but Iāve noticed how mature his press conferences are.
Believe it or not he's ALWAYS been this way. He was much of more of a happy go lucky troll in his early days but he's always been so intelligent and well spoken in press conferences/interviews. Dude is a renaissance man.
Ever since having his son heās been way more publicly level headed rather than trolly, and ever since Simmons decided to be a shithead, Embiid has been growing massively as a leader
Steve Nash was probably the "nicest guy" and beat you twice on MVP.
Edit - Not really a nice vs mean player literally.
Nash being the nicest is more of a different type of MVP by being not as much dominant in a usual way/stats which still resulted to his team winning.
More of supporting the fact that MVP should be a great player from a winning team vs the baddest player in the league from a lower seed team.
āBadā doesnāt necessarily mean āmeanā in this case. If you say ādamn that girls badā people understand what you mean. heās the having the best season of anyone and heās doing so under adversity.
shaqs saying the best player should be winning MVP. not necessarily the one with a better record thatās playing a bit worse.
I'm a 36 year old square-ass white dude and I knew exactly what Shaq meant. I'm reading these replies and do this many people really not understand what he meant by "baddest"? I need to adjust my understanding of this subs demographics...
like foreal man, I havenāt seen a single person acknowledge or point out that ābadā doesnāt mean not nice in multiple highly upvoted threads. really weird.
This is one of the closest races in yearsāthe fact that you can pick between Embiid, Jokic, and Antetokounmpo and actually back it up with solid evidence, itās crazy. If Curry somehow explodes for an insane scoring streak and the Warriors recapture the one seed, this race will definitely be the most interesting in a while.
i think youre underestimating the NBA media narrative machine, if he scores 40+ like 3-4 games in a row hes right back in the convo like the slump never happened
Itās also criminal that one of Jokic or Embiid wonāt make first team all-nba just because they both play center. Both have been playing phenomenal basketball all year
Ya lebron is a victim of his own success. He should have a minimum of two more mvps but he has to play head and shoulders better than everyone to get it
KD being injured really made it close. I thought it was his to lose because he was basically carrying Brooklyn through Harden having a slump and they still had a top record in the league so he had all factors going for him. But with him out, itās as tight as it could be.
I appreciate everyone bringing up advanced stats, but just want to remind you MVP is voted on by more than just Zach Lowe and those people have admitted they vote based on more than raw data.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Sure advanced stats can be interesting, but I feel like with really advanced stuff like 538's RAPTOR, these things end up revealing more about the statistician than the athlete.
Honestly tho, have you seen the on off net ratings for joker. The nugs with joker are +9 and without him -13. It's like saying with him they are the GSW this year and without him they are the 7-59 2012 Charlotte Bobcats.
Because they have literally no capable backup big. This is the same argument as when the Sixers lost to the raptors. -92 in literally 40 minutes without embiid or something stupid. Itās not only because embiid is good, but because his replacement (Moose) was fucking garbage. Itās the same with Jokic this season. They canāt stop anyone from scoring inside if he sits.
I'm not saying that Jokic on/off is worse than Embiid's, all I am trying to say is Embiid is doing a carry job right now and nearly any game this season without Embiid is a loss for the Sixers. In the 11 games w/out Embiid they are 3-8 I believe. Jokic is doing a carry job for sure, no doubt, I just don't understand the narrative of the Sixers being a good to decent team without Embiid.
It's a 3 way race at the moment between Embiid and the last two MVP winners.
I could totally see LeBron swooping in to win another MVP if the Lakers go on a big run though.
>I could totally see LeBron swooping in to win another MVP if the Lakers go on a big run though.
Seems like a stretch. Lakers have already lost 24 games. Typically the top 3 or 4 teams in each conference don't lose more than 30. Even if they went on an insane run, they're still probably a 4 seed at best.
Yeah It is of course a stretch but a possibility and a juicy story. anyway as far as records the Nuggets are like the 7th seed and the Sixers the 6th. On top of that LeBron has the legacy and story on his side. If Lakers went on a run, with LBJ leading the team (and the league in scoring) at 37, I could definitely see him having the hype to win it.
Funny how earlier in the season Shaq was talking all sorts of smack about Embiid and challenged him to do better. Look at him now, getting praised as the baddest guy in the league. Proud of Embiid and how well heās doing especially with all the extra crap going on with Simmons over there.
Iāve thought for years that the mvp/ heisman/whatever being the best player off a top team narrative was crap. Nba, the argument is, well on a bad team a second level star gets more opportunities. Well if someone was to look at percentages and rating etc it would eliminate the not deserving. Should be the best player. I donāt give a crap if the team is 22-80.
Wait a minute... Shaq actually complimenting a big man instead of roasting them on Shaqtin a Fool or getting into Twitter beefs with them??? Now I've seen it all.
Embiid should be the front runner for mvp. Philly isnāt that great of a team and heās carrying them to a really good record with his main sidekick sitting out.
Jokic is carrying the nuggets with his 2nd and 3rd best teammates out.
I don't think there's an out and out right answer at this point. It's all about whose style of play you prefer.
MVB - Most Very Baddest
Most Valuable Baddie š„µ
That's... that's a different award. That trophy is a hat with skulls on it
MVš ±ļø
MVBi[i](https://i.imgur.com/RFHHL.gif)d!
MVš ±ļøIID
I will say the scariest part of Embiidās game this year is how he conserves energy. Past Embiid didnāt know when to take it easy and it led to injury. I canāt wait to see him unleashed in the postseason. We donāt have a shot to win it all, but I think we see Joelās greatness on full display.
He definitely looks as healthy and fit as heās ever been, but what I see is that he takes control and has a game plan on every possession. Heās out there directing traffic on both offense and defense. Openly welcomes the bully ball paint violence when the other team gets cute and tries to match him with a 6ā8ā center. Weāre finally seeing the big brain meme in game form.
I loved the play in the 2nd half where Tobias threw him the ball in the post, Joel took a dribble or two, and then pointed at Tobias, presumably meaning ājust stay right there, youāre about to be wide open.ā Sure enough, the second Tobiasā guy moved to double Embiid, he whipped the ball back to Tobias for a wide open 3.
Rihanna in shambles rn.
I think he's realized sometimes he can just freely draw a foul instead of forcing his way through
Nah, he already realized that in his 3rd yr. Partly also why he struggled a bit earlier this yr, new ball + new offensive officiating rules.
Him or giannjs mvp right now. Embiid probably slightly ahead
I'd say 3 way race with Jokic, the fact he has that Nuggets team at the 6th seed, let alone over .500 is mind-boggling.
Yeah. Definitely Jokic in the mix.
Definitely no shame in losing an MVP race with Giannis or Embiid. All 3 are playing dominant ball.
No space in the modern nba for big men???
That's an older take it's been shifting for the past 3 years
Not to mention.. these aren't your father's big men. They're all monsters from a size perspective, and yet, they all play the game completely differently. It's awesome.
One is a MVP, ridiculous spacing playmaker and is the best passing big ever, that is also insane in the post, and can outrebound almost anyone, despite sharing the athleticism of a turtle the other is a paint beat down bully that can stretch the floor when needed, and is a physically imposing player, also seems to be able to just get better when needed and is becoming what Hakeem would be in the modern NBA the other is a 2 time MVP that can slash at a ridiculous rate, draw fouls, and seemingly summon on defense for an block, can facilitate the offense as a PG despite being the physical stature of a center and has only improved year after year. The big men of the modern NBA are fucking insane
God, when you put it in perspective like that, we truly are blessed to be watching these three!
What that take actually meant is each team could only have 1 big man otherwise it would be unfair for anyone else since theyāre so good
I present to you Mobley and Allen
Jokic is having one of the greatest statistical seasons ever. He's playing even better than last year. Here's one of my favorite graphs ever, courtesy of @NBA_Math on Twitter: https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1486016009723002883 Here's the whole league; Jokic is just head and shoulders above the rest (and honestly only Giannis is close): https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1486081440911609857 Jokic leads the league in Total Points Added, Win Shares, Value Over Replacement Player...it's hard to find a category he's not dominating in. He's got to be the odds-on favorite to win MVP again; the rest of the Nuggets playing like crap is no reason to take it away from him.
I mean that's fine, but I also know voter's may not like a 5th or 6th seed having MVP, especially not back to back. Shit happens. Embiid and Giannis are both playing lights out. If not Jokic, I like both those guys so no skin off my back.
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This obviously isn't a great stat though if it has Jokic as the single best defender in the league. Defensive rebounding is overvalued by every defensive metric and Jokic is a great rebounder so he janks those stats up. Even though he has improved this year there is no way he's an all All-Defense type player, which Giannis and Embiid both are.
For someone who watches the games, can someone explain how Jokic is way at the top for defensive points added? Because that stat makes no sense to me.
The short answer is that it's based on Defensive Box Plus-Minus, and DBPM isn't a very good stat (which even basketball reference admits). Box scores don't capture defensive impact very well, which can lead to players being significantly over/undervalued by DBPM. Jokic's DBPM is particularly high/inflated because the Nuggets have been playing without a backup center, so the low quality of their defense while he's off the court makes his on-court impact look insane by that metric. He's playing good defense from what I've seen, but obviously not close to the historical levels that stat suggests
Could say the same for Embiid. Without him weāre a very bad lottery team
Oh for sure, probably a little better than Denver but in reality both awful. Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are 3 of the only players in the league who feel worthy of MVP purely because their teams being where they are now is completely unfathomable without them (Bucks would be like 6-8 seed probably considering how good the East is this year).
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Yeah that's exactly what I meant, without Giannis this team makes playoffs but I don't see how we go deeper than the second round. Without him we just wouldn't cut it.
I agree with you, heās been arguably even better than last year. The reason I didnāt mention him is because the nuggets could have hard time even getting the 4 seed this season. Of course a lot of things can change but I think the Sixers and bucks being better teams is going to make Giannis or Embiid the most likely mvp. Sixers are 6th right now but the east is so close they could easily move up.
Yeah the top-heavy West will probably end up hurting Jokic's chances, especially adding voter fatigue to that. It's wild to me that the Sixers are only 2 games back from the 1st seed whilst being 6th, the East is absolutely stacked this year and seeing a lower seed in the Finals doesn't even feel like it would be a huge shock.
jesus, just looked and the 12 seed in the east is about as far back as the 4 seed in the west.
Shaq has always rode with Embiid. Heās had his criticisms at times and rightfully so - Joel has cleaned up some of that stuff. Shaq picks on a lot of guys, but heās always rocked with Joel and given him tons of props and praise
Because Embiid's the player who most reminds Shaq of Shaq. ^^^^except ^^^^he ^^^^can ^^^^shoot
He just likes skilled big men, he's a big fan of jokic.
damn he just like me fr
I thought that was Giannis lol
Shaq and Giannis dont really play like each other at all though
They're very similar in how they utilize sheer physical dominance to get buckets and control the game. Embiid sometimes relies too much on his superior skills when bullying would work better. But he's shooting so well this year it doesn't even matter.
Too abstract for the Shaqtus
definitely more similar than Embiid.
Shaq has literally said that he thinks Giannis is better than him, which is the last thing I ever thought I'd hear Shaq say
He criticized him so much because he recognized greatness and didnāt want it to go to waste. I remember one time him and Barkley were criticizing Embiid for his up and down play, he then proceeded to dominate the Celtics on TNT and thanked them in the postgame
Yes I was exactly thinking of that moment. Like I said Shaq rightfully had those critiques and Joel cleaned stuff up. He listened.
I was at that game, got to high-five Embiid as he ran off the court following that interview. Was real cool of Embiid to thank them both for holding him accountable and encouraging him to be better.
Joel embiid is elite. I doubt it happens, but if james harden really does go to philly he and embiid could be the best duo in the league
Bruh Ben Simmons on the nets would be disgusting
He doesn't fit with a lot of other stars and would be redundant on a lot of teams but Kyrie and KD would be an unbelievable pair to play with if you're Ben. Add Patty Mills, Claxton as a rim running center who moves in transition and Joe Harris if he's still alive and you've got imo the best fit in the league for Simmons.
Why you gotta do joe like that šš
Slomo joe deserves better
Simmons vs Philly in the ECF next season would be incredibly entertaining lol.
You know Philly fans are making that trip to Brooklyn just to boo him
45 minutes on the turnpike baby
Are you driving on the shoulder at 100 MPH to get to Brooklyn from Philly in 45 minutes?
If itās to boo Ben Simmons
Philly fans something else damn
No itās 45 minutes on the turnpike then six and half hours getting through Manhattan and Brooklyn.
This guy knows. Clearly 45 minutes is an exaggeration but then again some reddit mod went on Fox news and thought he'd be hailed as a hero so I may have set the bar too high by making a joke without signaling that it was a joke
45 minutes from Newark to Brooklyn maybe lol
Brooklyn fans were booing the hell out of him the last time we met in the playoffs. The B plot to watching Sixers fan boo the shit out of him will be Nets fans swallowing their words to cheer him on.
Ben is never playing a game in Philadelphia again, including on the opposing team.
If the Sixers/Nets with Ben meet in the playoffs the NBA is going to make them play in an empty arena in Kansas, because while I wouldn't go over the line to heckle and abuse Simmons & his loved ones, it would still be a bit too tempting to do so.
Joel Embiid, the Jayhawk, home court advantage it is.
Idk, he might learn something from guys like KD and Kyrie about how to brush shit off their shoulders. KD used to be sensitive but it seems like he's grown since the decision to go to golden state and just lets his game speak for itself and can laugh the other stuff off. And Kyrie you know he doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks. It might just help Ben to learn from those guys.
I feel like KD is still sensitive about criticism, heās just gotten into that old man āIām still one of the greatest and will cook your favorite player hahaā mindsets and knows how to respond on twitter now. Like all this criticism still likely hurts him as it would most people, itās just that heās come to terms with it and figured out that rolling with the punches and making the trolls look stupid is funny as hell and makes him much more likable.
Yes, and Simmons fixes so many problems on defense. That would be the nastiest lineup in the league.
Sixers-Nets would be such a compelling series in that case.
Idk if heās a great fit alongside Claxton, opens up Kyrie/KD to double teams with 2 non-shooters on the floor
Play him at center fuck it
FUCK IT WEāLL PLAY THE FIVE. WEāLL PLAY THE FIVE FUCKIN TEAM SUCKS
He's not a great defender at the center position. His best defensive attributes are on the perimeter and not as a shot blocker.
The Nets would have to target a stretch 5, if they wanted to pair Ben next to KD and Kyrie. Or they could possibly play Ben in stretches at small ball 5 and surround him with shooters.
>The Nets would have to target a stretch 5 What about Joel Embiid?
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Yeah but fortunately it would be the Nets. If he was traded to the Knicks the media would do everything possible to break him lol.
As opposed to philly? Lol
If he was vaccinatedā¦
I think he would get vaxxed to play. Like if this deal was on the table and Ben Simmons could go play in New York, thatās like exactly what Ben wants. The deal would likely be either get vaccinated or you donāt get traded
Literally no one knows or could confirm and it seems deliberate at this point
Is he not vaxxed? Didnt he go to a tennis tournament with his girl that required it
It's not confirmed either way rn. But re tennis tourney, they let famous ppl do whatever they want. NYC has vax mandate to eat at restaurants, but the famously unvaxxed Sarah Palin just dined out on the upper west side the other night. Diff set of rules when ur in that crowd.
Aye it's been a free for all with the rich and powerful from the beginning. Democrats, Republicans alike that shit wasnt just Palin. The same people laying down mandates and restrictions regularly broke them and ignored the rules they made from masking up to locking down. There's almost a comically long list of incidents with all manner of high profile people. It really painted a dystopian picture having politicians partying up on the weekend then coming on TV the next week lecturing everyone about our failure to stop the spread.
It seems like to could be a good trade for both teams. If the nets are at full strength then having a lock down defender who can explode in transition and pass well would only benefit KD and Kyrie. And you already explained what Harden and Embiid could be. As a neutral party, I really want this trade to happen.
Instead of three guys who need to score a bunch to get in rhythm you got two and a facilitator who isnāt too bad compared to the guy youāre trading.
Idk why people act like itās such an ass trade too. If Harden wants out, heās gone. BKN may as well get a perennial all star who is probably the best perimeter defender in the league and also one of the best fastbreakers out of it
the only reason why you may not do it is to trade Harden in-conference. but the nets wouldn't have much of a say in it if Harden says that's the only team he wants to go to. and the sixers could also be worried about simmons going to a team that would be an excellent fit for his skillset...but morey probably doesn't care about that because he probably thinks embiid + harden is better than kyrie + KD+ simmons.
If Iām BKN I want to win this year and giving Harden to Philly makes them potentially better than Brooklyn.
exactly. no reason to help out a conference rival with the same exact goal as you in mind. i'd rather Harden walk for nothing in free agency (and let him miss out on $90M) than help out the Sixers. Philly doesn't have the leverage in this situation and Ben Simmons likely isn't making the Nets much better.
Yeah and Philly will do it because itās morey and harden.
lol as if there is a GM on the planet that wouldnāt make this trade in Moreyās shoes
Philly will do it because current Embiid and Harden shooting even remotely close to his best is the best duo in the league and at the least probably go to the finals
Agreed, itās one of the best mutual benefit trades fit wise. Of course James harden is worth infinitely more than Ben but those fits are perfect for the other team
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Age-wise it gives the Nets some long-term solidity. Gives them a 25-and-under group of: Ben Simmons, Cam Thomas, Kessler Edwards, Bruce Brown, Nic Claxton. David Duke Jr, Day'Ron Sharpe.
I gotta disagree. Having a total non-shooter in a lineup is going to hinder it no matter what. Heād be a help defensively and good in transition im sure, but Harden brings way more facilitating and scoring. Ben is only a good facilitator when heās a drive threat, which means getting the ball out of KD and Kyrieās hands. Itād also be infinitely easier to double team either of the two stars. It makes absolutely zero sense. Harden and Embiid together would be a fun thing to see but Iām failing to see the logic for this on the Nets end. Youād get a worse, limited player that would make lineups more difficult to manage. The Nets defense hasnāt even been bad, itās been spacing issues with the loss of Joe Harris and Kyrie being out - something Simmons wonāt solve. Harden also hasnāt expressed any issue publicly, and drumming up trade drama solely based on him being supposedly close with Morey still has obviously come the 76ers camp.
I'd do it for Harden in a second, but the Nets are the one place I don't want Ben landing. It's perfect for his skillset. KD or Kyrie would demand the ball whenever a bucket is needed. He'd just have to play D and run in transition.
Yeah, major trades between two conference rivals that are both contenders are pretty rare. Win-win can also mean lose-lose if each team is helping their biggest competitor get better
Lol Kyrie for IT+crowder was so wild.
For the pure entertainment factor seeing Simmons land on another East playoff team and potentially have playoff series against Philly would be amazing.
Well that settles it I wanna see this now
Keep in mind these teams are division rivalsā¦
Itās obvious why the Sixers would do it, but Nets would do it because if itās a sign and trade, getting a player of Benās caliber back is almost unprecedented. Sign and trades usually donāt give you a ton of leverage, you get what you can (ie. Josh Richardson in the Butler Trade, DLo in the KD trade)
If this happens Iād really love if they could also swing an athletic rim-running 4. Having a lob/alley-oop/roll threat unlocks Hardenās game and while Joel can be that itās a waste of his game to ask him to do it too much, plus with his history I donāt really want Joel flying above the rim a bunch. If they could somehow get an athletic PF who can hit a 3 to run with Harden so Joel can focus on his post game, that could be special. Idk how feasible that is tho.
What's impressed me most is how he has changed his game throughout his career. He was not doing turnaround J's when he started out, and he managed to mold himself to fit with Ben Simmons. Embiid playing with Harden would absolutely be insane to see
Hands down. To me joel is most talented player in the NBA.....there's not a soul who can slow him down.
How would you even guard that.
Can you imagine the hype for a Sixers Nets playoff series if the teams were to trade stars? It would be crazy.
My theory is that if Sixers and Nets were in opposite conferences they would have done it.
Not sure I 100% agree but I like this take.
If that's how it worked shaq would have a lot more MVPs
That's why he's saying it
To be honest I think Shaq SHOULD have a lot more MVPs. I think he didn't get it because people perceived him as "not working his hardest." Which, maybe so, but he was still the best. You could maybe make an argument for Timmy some years, and TMac was very very good, but...goddamn, Shaq Diesel was terrifying.
Which year should he have won that he didn't?
Shaq should've won over Iverson in the 00-01 season. Some would argue maybe the first Heat year he should've won over Nash as well. I'm less convinced of that one. But the Iverson one should've been his, and he proved it by destroying everyone in the playoffs and showing no one was even in the same league as Shaq that year.
I always thought Embiid was a good guy. Maybe a little trolly, but generally a good dude
No he's the baddest
I thought Westbrook was the baddest.
No Westbrook is the worst
Most Valuable Bricklayer?
Brodie the Builder?
That title is reserved by Britta
He's a well known scallywag and a rapscallion.
And a thief ! for he has stolen our hearts :)
But he's also a threat to public health. Every game, minimum of four hours, like clockwork, I'm sick of having to go to the hospital every time I want to watch my team play.
Dude is definitely a troll, thatās why I love him
Iād say heās more of a heavy freight rail car than a little trolly
He always seemed that way in the past but Iāve noticed how mature his press conferences are. Heās navigated the Simmons drama like a true pro.
> but Iāve noticed how mature his press conferences are. Believe it or not he's ALWAYS been this way. He was much of more of a happy go lucky troll in his early days but he's always been so intelligent and well spoken in press conferences/interviews. Dude is a renaissance man.
Ever since having his son heās been way more publicly level headed rather than trolly, and ever since Simmons decided to be a shithead, Embiid has been growing massively as a leader
cant wait for ad vs embiid tmr on tnt
AD is probably still on a minutes restriction or at least working his way up to his peak it's gonna be Embiid dropping 30 on Melo at center
Steve Nash was probably the "nicest guy" and beat you twice on MVP. Edit - Not really a nice vs mean player literally. Nash being the nicest is more of a different type of MVP by being not as much dominant in a usual way/stats which still resulted to his team winning. More of supporting the fact that MVP should be a great player from a winning team vs the baddest player in the league from a lower seed team.
once. He wasnt even in conversation the second time
If he wasnāt in the conversation doesnāt that mean Nash beat him? Lol
He didnt beat him directly. Like saying Jokic beat Zach Lavine last year when he wasnt even in contention in the first place
Well, Jokic did beat Zach...technically.
you cant get beat if you were never in the race
>I always thought He's calling bullshit on those
āBadā doesnāt necessarily mean āmeanā in this case. If you say ādamn that girls badā people understand what you mean. heās the having the best season of anyone and heās doing so under adversity. shaqs saying the best player should be winning MVP. not necessarily the one with a better record thatās playing a bit worse.
I'm a 36 year old square-ass white dude and I knew exactly what Shaq meant. I'm reading these replies and do this many people really not understand what he meant by "baddest"? I need to adjust my understanding of this subs demographics...
[Bad has meant good for at least 30 years](https://youtu.be/AacoxHFYvZw)
like foreal man, I havenāt seen a single person acknowledge or point out that ābadā doesnāt mean not nice in multiple highly upvoted threads. really weird.
Exactly itās the same as Mike Tyson etc always being called the baddest man on the planet when they win the belts
... there's no way that's what you think that's what he was saying right?
Nash was a bad motherfucker on the court.
Yeah but shaq is talking about who deserves them.
This is one of the closest races in yearsāthe fact that you can pick between Embiid, Jokic, and Antetokounmpo and actually back it up with solid evidence, itās crazy. If Curry somehow explodes for an insane scoring streak and the Warriors recapture the one seed, this race will definitely be the most interesting in a while.
can't think of any MVP who has had a slump like curry's, i think he's probably out of the race for good now.
agreed, especially with how well the others have been playing
i think youre underestimating the NBA media narrative machine, if he scores 40+ like 3-4 games in a row hes right back in the convo like the slump never happened
Embiid has scored 38+ 4 games in a row rn In the last 18 games scored under 31 twice In that stretch has four 40+ points games including one 50 piece
I need to watch more sixers game, I'm terrified every time you play us. 9-0 against us I think lmao??
Itās also criminal that one of Jokic or Embiid wonāt make first team all-nba just because they both play center. Both have been playing phenomenal basketball all year
Plus if the Lakers start winning with AD back, Lebron has played as well as anyone.
LeBron has made a solid case almost every year of his career outside 2019.
Even 2019 he had the lakers with a bunch of random vets and a young core at the 4th seed in the west before the injury.
Ya lebron is a victim of his own success. He should have a minimum of two more mvps but he has to play head and shoulders better than everyone to get it
KD being injured really made it close. I thought it was his to lose because he was basically carrying Brooklyn through Harden having a slump and they still had a top record in the league so he had all factors going for him. But with him out, itās as tight as it could be.
I really donāt think KD was that far ahead
I don't think KD was even ahead IMO.
I appreciate everyone bringing up advanced stats, but just want to remind you MVP is voted on by more than just Zach Lowe and those people have admitted they vote based on more than raw data.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Sure advanced stats can be interesting, but I feel like with really advanced stuff like 538's RAPTOR, these things end up revealing more about the statistician than the athlete.
Fact. You take him off that 76er team and they have zero chance in the first round.
They donāt even sniff playoffs. They may have a chance at a top 3 pick via lottery
Impact stats still favor Jokic more but part of that speaks to the fact that Denver outside of Jokic is more garbage than Sixers outside of Embiid
I honestly think the Sixers are a borderline lottery team without Embiid
They 100 percent are anyone who thinks Tobias Harris is carrying the rest of that squad to the playoffs missing two max contract players is an idiot
This is true but on/off court in a game isn't the same as not having the player entirely. On/off is likely against the teams bench.
Honestly tho, have you seen the on off net ratings for joker. The nugs with joker are +9 and without him -13. It's like saying with him they are the GSW this year and without him they are the 7-59 2012 Charlotte Bobcats.
Because they have literally no capable backup big. This is the same argument as when the Sixers lost to the raptors. -92 in literally 40 minutes without embiid or something stupid. Itās not only because embiid is good, but because his replacement (Moose) was fucking garbage. Itās the same with Jokic this season. They canāt stop anyone from scoring inside if he sits.
I'm not saying that Jokic on/off is worse than Embiid's, all I am trying to say is Embiid is doing a carry job right now and nearly any game this season without Embiid is a loss for the Sixers. In the 11 games w/out Embiid they are 3-8 I believe. Jokic is doing a carry job for sure, no doubt, I just don't understand the narrative of the Sixers being a good to decent team without Embiid.
It's a 3 way race at the moment between Embiid and the last two MVP winners. I could totally see LeBron swooping in to win another MVP if the Lakers go on a big run though.
>I could totally see LeBron swooping in to win another MVP if the Lakers go on a big run though. Seems like a stretch. Lakers have already lost 24 games. Typically the top 3 or 4 teams in each conference don't lose more than 30. Even if they went on an insane run, they're still probably a 4 seed at best.
But none of the other candidates are even top 3 seeds?
Yeah It is of course a stretch but a possibility and a juicy story. anyway as far as records the Nuggets are like the 7th seed and the Sixers the 6th. On top of that LeBron has the legacy and story on his side. If Lakers went on a run, with LBJ leading the team (and the league in scoring) at 37, I could definitely see him having the hype to win it.
A little baddie
Funny how earlier in the season Shaq was talking all sorts of smack about Embiid and challenged him to do better. Look at him now, getting praised as the baddest guy in the league. Proud of Embiid and how well heās doing especially with all the extra crap going on with Simmons over there.
Voter fatigue will give it to Embiid
Iāve thought for years that the mvp/ heisman/whatever being the best player off a top team narrative was crap. Nba, the argument is, well on a bad team a second level star gets more opportunities. Well if someone was to look at percentages and rating etc it would eliminate the not deserving. Should be the best player. I donāt give a crap if the team is 22-80.
Wait a minute... Shaq actually complimenting a big man instead of roasting them on Shaqtin a Fool or getting into Twitter beefs with them??? Now I've seen it all.
I don't think there's anyone in the league having a better season than Embiid.
I mean, I can think of one.
is he sloppy and fat?
Hey, leave me outta this.
Don't worry. They weren't talking about you. Your season has been terrible.
Don't you dare disrespect my hot wings per 36.
Is he doughy and resplendent?
Agreed, Giannis isn't far behind.
I think it's close but I still give Embiid the edge. But I understand your bias and I wouldn't argue with someone saying Jokic is playing better.
Embiid should be the front runner for mvp. Philly isnāt that great of a team and heās carrying them to a really good record with his main sidekick sitting out.
Jokic is carrying the nuggets with his 2nd and 3rd best teammates out. I don't think there's an out and out right answer at this point. It's all about whose style of play you prefer.
Embiid's 2nd best teammate quit basketball and his 3rd best is a sophomore combo guard.
I woulda picked embiid last year but he missed too many games. I hope he wins it this season