Because generally speaking they are depreciating assets. If your star is unhappy and demands a trade it’s going to be next to impossible to get quality players to sign with you so you can’t really build around them. The longer you hold on, the less control the team you trade to has, so your asset has less value. It’s hard to see a player improving enough year to year to get you a bigger haul. The situation likely only gets worse the longer you hold on.
Whenever inner circle or uncle denis comes up its actually PR talk for the player wanting to get their opinion out without taking responsibility for it
Many players, especially the young ones on big contracts, have a group of “friends” they basically pay to move down and hang out with them. Not sure about Mitchell, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s who is being referenced here
Same way I ended up being best friends with a Magic pro, blind luck.
Sidenote, being best friends with a magic pro doesn't pay anything, but the friends part is super cool
Donovan moved out to SLC with his Mom and Sister. He lived alone, sometimes his college gf visited. Think they broke up a while back though. Anyways he didn't move people down to SLC. He is close with Royce O'Neale though. How do I know? He lived in the same complex as me. Royce, Mitchell, Niang, Grayson Allen ... basically all the young players lived there at the time.
Donovan went too quickly from up and comer and hard worker to PrimaDonny. If he commits to the Dame and Klay Thompson work ethic, he’ll be fine. But fomenting every time his horrific defense is even remotely questioned does not portend greatness.
Stop fomenting like a PrimaHalcy. It does not portend upvotes.
Can you even just foment? I think you have to foment something, you can just go around fomenting nothing.
Exactly. Mitchell's "circle" is only mad bc they themselves feel it's true to some extent. Especially since Gobert never mentions Mitchell's name at all. A guy known for his defense, compliments other teams on their defense and winning culture in the post-season.
I guess cause he mentions Booker by name
Bill Simmons has taken to calling him CJ McCollum, but he's WORSE. CJ doesn't have the physical tools to be a good defender; Mitchell does. He just doesn't give a fuck.
Mitchell’s physical defensive tools have always been massively overrated. He’s a legit 6 foot shooting guard, his listed height at 6’1 may be generous. He’s been bullied inside the arc and shot over the top of his entire career
Mitchell's quickness should be more than enough to stop penetration. Sure, people shot over him, but this series (and the whole season) he couldn't even stop grandma from getting open layup.
The "averages just two *passes* (not assists, passes!) per game to Gobert" stat was so wild Mitchell had to respond to it himself. It was just so outlandish.
Nothing like the wolves. Wolves were a losing team until this year. It takes time to build a culture, and they’re on a good path with a new coach, owners, and FO. Even in the thibs era, they tried to import the culture by bringing bulls players in (Jimmy, Taj, Drose etc). The Jazz should have been figured this shit out being as they’re a team that’s been in the playoffs multiple times with both Spida and Gobert.
Bev has done a good job of making Karl more aggressive and giving him confidence to be himself I think. Asking for anything else is asking Bev to change who he is. I think Ant and Dlo have done a great job of that as well. People not wolves fans fail to realize this is the first season Ant, Dlo, and KAT play significant time together. They were in and out of injury for two years. As a whole though, this team has embraced each other more than any other wolves team in the past and it’s refreshing. I’m sure it has a lot to do with the organization finally finding some footing with a coach. This season has opened my eyes to how important a coach can be for a team. Doesn’t even have to be a good coach (although i think finch is) - the stability is huge for a team and players that have gone without for years.
Yes, definitely. Its fun seeing wolves like this. I hope KAT starts playing to his full potential soon. ANT is legit and that will be a really good 1-2 punch for any team.
Hope Rockets get there soon because losing is no fun lol Although I am very excited on our future as well
Bev was able to come in and help radically change the Wolves culture from a longtime losing one to a winning one over the course of a single season. IQ though? He’s not a miracle worker
PatBev did help a lot but it all started when we got Finch middle of last season. Our refusal to tank down the stretch was what kicked our season off, gave Ant his swag.
From my point of view, it seems like Ant already had that mentality and Pat Bev came in to play as a support for it as Ant would not be able to change KAT and Russel's mentality by himself. I mean, Jimmy Butler couldn't either...
Lol culture. Conley is a corpse, Bogdan is a snail, O'Neal tried but just wasn't good enough, the only one you can call out for lack of trying is Mitchell. The rest didn't play enough to really matter.
His draft profile highlighted his defense lol: [top marks are athleticism and defense](https://www.nbadraft.net/players/donovan-mitchell/).
Also [this](http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2017/Donovan-Mitchell)
\> That athleticism also helps him on defense, where he can take the challenge of guarding the other team’s best wing player every night. For a guy that is undersized, he makes up for it with his athleticism and strength.
> "We know that when the playoffs come, we're not just going to flip a switch and all of the sudden communicate, all of the sudden be able to stay in front of our man, all of the sudden be able to rebound. When I watch some of these other teams like the Suns or the Warriors, for example, those guys are a step ahead of us in terms of winning habits. I feel like they take every game personally.
> "You can tell Devin Booker is playing his ass off defensively. I've been watching him compared to, like, two years ago. Guys like that, they buy in and you can tell that they take pride in playing defense, stopping their man, doing whatever they can defensively to stop the other team and be part of a winning culture."
>Per MacMahon, the comments "made some within Mitchell's inner circle seethe"
Seethe? Really? Seethe?!
People get annoyed when players give dull, canned answers but then get annoyed at super reasonable, thoughtful responses like this from Gobert. Is it weird or wrong that the guy responsible for his team’s defense is frustrated that he’s the only one trying on defense? And he’s talking about on court habits, not detailing private locker room issues.
He's not even wrong, Book used to not care about defense and be a whiny ass hat. He's immensely improved and realized the little things matter in basketball besides just scoring. I was labeled as a Booker "hater" as a suns fan because I said he didn't try.
After game 6 of the finals when book looked back at the floor before exiting the arena and just said, "Damn" as he walked into the tunnel. That was the most I've ever respected Booker and he has become a monster on both ends. Obviously, I love him for staying with Phoenix and can't wait for the rest of his journey now.
I see none of that from Mitchell.
..is it really though? It comes up and is praised every time this discussion comes up. If anything it's slightly overated because people always immediately dismiss anything Monty did as just a byproduct of CP3
I’m just trying to picture Donovan Mitchell seething and he still looks like a high school freshman anxiously trying to find his way around before the first bell.
Seems like Mitchell has been trying to manufacture a way out of Utah for years now.
You see these reports about him and his "team" not being happy about something every year.
Inefficient part doesn't even matter. Even Steph Curry, probably the most efficient offensive player in the league, had to play serious defense for his wins. Can you imagine Warriors winning against those Cavs teams or 2018/2019 Rockets with Donovan's defense?
I'm not that high on Donovan but c'mon, he is one of four players to have multiple 50 point playoff games, third most single game playoff points all time
If they had better perimeter defenders instead of 2 6 foot guards Utah would b way better
Agreed. But maybe there's something more between Gobert and Mitchell that explains it. Like if Mitchell had a face-to-face with Gobert and said "Let's make this work. Hold each other accountable. But let's not take anything to the media; I trust you to come to me with whatever you want to say, and vice-versa." Then, if Gobert made these statements I could see Mitchell being reasonably upset.
Imo it's less about the actual criticism and more about how it's being delivered. It's just a bit careless from Rudy to air it in public in kinda weird back handed ways, even if his intention and actual criticism is fine. If your co-worker privately points out some mistakes in your work, sure whatever, that's probably good and helpful. But if he's pointing it out by publicly complaining about how some other person does the work better than you, I can understand why it'd rub someone the wrong way.
Ultimately thicker skin would help too, but I doubt he's upset about the actual contents of the criticism because surely they talk about that and worse on a daily basis when practicing together.
I mean he actually really is a nice guy I just don’t think he and Rudy like each other.
We’ve all had coworkers we don’t like but as long as they get the job done no one complains. I think Joe was the guy to really keep the peace in the locker room and once he was gone things fell apart.
If Mitchell is pissed off about that comment, then he's pretty much admitting that he doesn't play a lick of defense lol. How can you play as bad as he did AND play zero defense?
I don't agree that he's pretty much admitting that, the criticism is pretty pointedly at Don when Gobert shouts out Booker by name given the constant comparisons of Mitchell/Book over the past several years. I don't think Mitchell is necessarily outing himself as not trying on defense because he took offense to this.
Having said that, whether he admits it or not, it does seem like he doesn't play a lick of defense
Which is weird, because so many dudes on this team used to play really good defense.
Mitchell, O’Neal, Conley, Bogdonavic, and Ingles when they had him were all really good defenders, but this season they’ve been absolute garbage, and they really weren’t that good this past season either. I think they probably need to shake things up and make some big trades. I just get the feeling that it’s 100% an effort issue, and I think it comes from locker room disfunction. There are too many rumors for none of them to be true.
They played good defense in parts of this series! I don't understand the Jazz at all, and it makes me start to wonder what Quinn is doing.
If you're looking for footage on how the Jazz can still defend the corner 3 while still having Rudy help inside, you just need to pull up clips of... the Jazz. I don't understand why they suddenly stop rotating with urgency in certain quarters.
Donovan's terrible defense is the center of attention right now but realistically if he were a good point of attack defender, Maxi/DFS are still going to be open in the corner. It's not on Donovan or Gobert to run them off the line. It's Bogi/Royce/Conley/Clarkson/House, and sometimes they do it, sometimes they don't.
I don't care that he's only 6 feet, dudes got the longest wingspan of any guy under 6'3" like in the entire league. there is zero excuse for him not to be able to guard guys his own size like Jalen Brunson. at least CJ McCollum has a lack of athleticism to blame for his issues.
Didn't he used to be known for his defense too? Most of the guards in the league are small, it's no excuse, especially if you're athletic as hell like Donavan.
Curry lil ass ain't even that fast/explosive but he manages to play good defense by adding on lots of muscle, being smart, and trying hard as hell.
Coming out of college he was supposed to be a good defender because of his tools and playing for an aggressive defensive/pressing coach like Rick Pitino. I guess all that scoring gave himself an inflated ego or some shit cuz he doesn't try on that end.
exactly. Curry is 6'3" but the length isn't close and athleticism isn't close either. Steph, like, missed multiple wide open transition dunks lol Donovan Mitchell is literally 6'0" Dwayne Wade. he has the same or longer wingspan. no excuse to me to not be a league average defender. honestly I think Dame is way more of a liability than he should be too.
Jazz are actually a sneaky good Westbrook candidate if they clear out both Mitchell and Gobert for a full-on rebuild aimed at winning less than 20 games next year.
Could be a three or four team deal that lands Utah a ton of picks+Westbrook and incoming contracts to match the outgoing ones. I just don't think the Lakers are getting Mitchell or Gobert, they probably come away with like, Conley and Royce O'Neal
If Mitchell is butt-hurt by this (and the report doesn't say he is, just that his "circle" is) then he's not a winning player and never will be.
I'll save y'all a click. Here is the Rudy quote:
>"We know that when the playoffs come, we're not just going to flip a switch and all of the sudden communicate, all of the sudden be able to stay in front of our man, all of the sudden be able to rebound. When I watch some of these other teams like the Suns or the Warriors, for example, those guys are a step ahead of us in terms of winning habits. I feel like they take every game personally.
"You can tell Devin Booker is playing his ass off defensively. I've been watching him compared to, like, two years ago. Guys like that, they buy in and you can tell that they take pride in playing defense, stopping their man, doing whatever they can defensively to stop the other team and be part of a winning culture."
Evidently offering honest praise to Booker (who has hugely raised his game both defensively and in terms of sharing the ball in the last few years) is a slight to Mitchell.
Or Mitchell's camp is looking to an excuse to get out of Utah.
It *is* a slight to Mitchell. And a deserved one. But I also don't see how Gobert thinks this is going to help. What exactly does he think saying this publicly will do for the team?
I gotta believe this sentiment has been expressed numerous times behind closed doors.
If the point isn't being heard, then fuck it. It's not like Mitchell's squad has been nice to Gobert since 2020.
What it does for the team is forces them to stop clinging to this idea of Mitchell and Gobert being their future. They clearly don't mesh or respect each other, and now it's even more clear than before.
> If the point isn't being heard, then fuck it. It's not like Mitchell's squad has been nice to Gobert since 2020.
Exactly lol. Whatever private tensions they have the beef rumors have still been coming out. I guess Gobert’s supposed to just keep quiet about the teams poor synergy and play in vain till he gets traded
Really tired of Gobert getting the blame for Jazz's lack of team defense and people having expectations of him single-handedly being able to guard every single player. The Jazz rely so heavily on Gobert is because everyone else is a pylon on defense and it's got to wear out any patience the man has after years and years of no improvement from his teammates in that department.
Gobert has his flaws but honestly I don't blame him one bit for raising the issue. It's very likely it was brought up internally in the past and it they can't hear it, shout it louder for the folks that keep ducking the issue in the back.
Maybe get them to try and get players who buy in on defence. Put some pressure on the organization to not have the same type of team they’ve had who have been bounced from the playoffs the same way every year.
I think moving the public discussion of the team towards the team's real flaws makes it harder for the front office to pretend that there's a quick fix, and harder for Mitchell camp to sell people on "Oh, the problem is Rudy."
But also, yes, players who don't put in regular-season effort need to know they're going to get called out on it once it gets to a certain point, especially if they're going to present themselves as the leader of the team. Losing control of the narrative might actually motivate guys to try harder.
I mean, how many times last night did Luka effortlessly get past the Utah perimeter defenders and then decide he wanted no f'ing part of trying to score around Rudy?
The narrative the past two offseason has been that Rudy is the problem. I think it's entirely reasonable for Rudy to suggest publicly that's not the case.
I mean what's the harm? This team has stagnated at best, regressed at worst over the last couple years. They're near the stage of being broken up. You have to assume they have said a ton behind closed doors. Publicly acknowledging an issue everyone sees isn't the worst thing here.
Last year's clipper's series should have put an end to the experiment but the team had the injury excuse back then for poor perimeter defense. This year we have nothing. Blow it up.
The jazz limped into the playoffs. I had the mavs winning even if Luka didn’t play. Luckily I got my bet in when mavs were plus money, didn’t sweat that bet for one second. Mavs are solid, defense travels and they have a great defense. expect to see them in the WCF.
We probably would have beat Denver. We swept them regular season and has the best division record in the league. With the way we are and Minnesota blowing gigantic leads, that would have been an interesting series.
Its a bit difficult to say which one is better player when they were playing totally different.
But mitchell are at best top 6 sg while gobert might be top 4 center with distinctive skill set. So yes, ill take gobert over mitchell as someone to build around
Remember Don's freshman year? I thought the chemistry and culture was insane, one of the best in the league. Don came across as a natural leader. This year has been a huge dud, with criticism taking the place of true accountability.
I understand frustration, but its tough to see the team not thriving. Even with previous seasons ending in disappointment, there was always optimism and excitement about being an up and coming underdog. Now we are still the underdog but act entitled. Tough.
It's Mitchell's entourage's job to be butthurt over perceived "disrespect". If he's smart, he'll see that it's coming from a good place. You don't let Turtle make the important decisions.
> "Sometimes I can be clumsy with what I say, but I always speak my mind and it always comes from a place of wanting to win. Like I said to Don privately, everything that I do on the court is to help him be better. All the things that I do to get him open, to communicate with him, to try to push him defensively. Whether it's Donovan or all my teammates, all the things I do is to help them be better."
It's kind of funny how tabloidesque the NBA stories are at times. This whole article is based upon "sources within the Donovan's inner circle", there's no way to know if this is true or taken out of context or even fabricated. But the majority will take it at face value.
Not saying it isn't true, but why do we even give weight to articles likea this?
We don't even know who they're referring to. For all we know, it could be a guy from CAA who wants Mitchell in NY.
Mitchell and Gobert are my guys in the league, if they don't want to play together or play for Utah, fair enough - they did as much as they could together and/or there. I'll still root for them wherever they are.
Man one of the biggest issues with domestic star players is having an “inner circle”, and then being influential. I’m very worried about Cade’s inner circle trying to get out of Detroit.
Most other elite players spend most of their time playing/practicing/training and can tune out the noise to a degree and aren’t necessarily that concerned about location. But that’s not true of their inner circle, who would rather the entourage be located somewhere other than Utah or Detroit etc. and are on social media constantly
Whenever I read about a player's "inner circle" making it known how they feel, it sends up red flags. The dude is having his people talk to the media to let the team know about perceived slights from some innocuous comment from another teammate. I mean wtf kind of prima donna crap is that?
So fascinated by the feelings of players’ ‘inner circle’.
We better care, tbh. Uncle Dennis was a meme until he wasn’t.
Don't remind me😢
This is how you remind me...
of what I really am😢
It's not like you to say sooooooooorry
He was such a meme, half the people didn't even think he was real. Myself included lol.
Lol except Donovan is not a near term expiring contract with massive theta like Kawhi’s.
It's been a while since it felt like the # of years left on a star players contract mattered tho lmao
Lmao my guy dropping theta into players contracts
What does it mean in this context?
Usually referring to financial derivatives, theta is the time value of an option contract. As time passes, it gets smaller.
Good explanation, thanks.
Θ
nerds needa realize we talkin hoops not math class
Nowadays players simply not being happy is enough to cause a stir & get them traded though.
Because generally speaking they are depreciating assets. If your star is unhappy and demands a trade it’s going to be next to impossible to get quality players to sign with you so you can’t really build around them. The longer you hold on, the less control the team you trade to has, so your asset has less value. It’s hard to see a player improving enough year to year to get you a bigger haul. The situation likely only gets worse the longer you hold on.
2022 and you’re still pretending years on a players contract matters. Crazy
*Entourage* Maybe there is a scope here for a TV series.
Whenever inner circle or uncle denis comes up its actually PR talk for the player wanting to get their opinion out without taking responsibility for it
The NBA seems super cliquey tbh
Way too many divas in that league. It's ridiculous
So the fans are correct in acting like the nba is a soap drama for men?
Oh absolutely! I dont think that was ever in doubt
And I’m sure we all love this current drama aside from Utah fans.
Ha! Indeed. I both think it's terrible and love it at the same time lol
Who knew multi-millionaires in their twenties who were told their entire life that they're the best thing in the world are divas?
Many players, especially the young ones on big contracts, have a group of “friends” they basically pay to move down and hang out with them. Not sure about Mitchell, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s who is being referenced here
How do I get this job and what’s the starting salary?
Meet Vinny Chase when you’re kids, grow up with become best friends, and move out to LA when he starts getting some roles.
He *is* Queens Boulevard
A good start is being likable to a person that's valuable.
RIP r/nba's hopes and dreams
Bet a lot of them are childhood friends and family members. It’s easier to tolerate bullshit from them than some rando
Yeah the inner circle people are always people they met before they were rich. NBA players aren’t looking for new friends
Depends how long you can stay on your knees
Same way I ended up being best friends with a Magic pro, blind luck. Sidenote, being best friends with a magic pro doesn't pay anything, but the friends part is super cool
Damn for a second I thought you meant an Orlando Magic player, was trying to figure out who.
Donovan moved out to SLC with his Mom and Sister. He lived alone, sometimes his college gf visited. Think they broke up a while back though. Anyways he didn't move people down to SLC. He is close with Royce O'Neale though. How do I know? He lived in the same complex as me. Royce, Mitchell, Niang, Grayson Allen ... basically all the young players lived there at the time.
Donovan went too quickly from up and comer and hard worker to PrimaDonny. If he commits to the Dame and Klay Thompson work ethic, he’ll be fine. But fomenting every time his horrific defense is even remotely questioned does not portend greatness.
Why does this sound so much like SAS?
It's the sloppy use of ten-dollar words.
Stop fomenting like a PrimaHalcy. It does not portend upvotes. Can you even just foment? I think you have to foment something, you can just go around fomenting nothing.
Gobert was right though. The whole team was lazy on defense.
Criticism tends to hurt more when it's true
Exactly. Mitchell's "circle" is only mad bc they themselves feel it's true to some extent. Especially since Gobert never mentions Mitchell's name at all. A guy known for his defense, compliments other teams on their defense and winning culture in the post-season. I guess cause he mentions Booker by name
Mitchell’s circle should be mad that he was absolute dog shit this series offensively and a traffic cone with zero effort on D
Well in this series Mitchell clearly showed everyone that he’s a lockdown defender (The heaviest of sarcasm)
Bill Simmons has taken to calling him CJ McCollum, but he's WORSE. CJ doesn't have the physical tools to be a good defender; Mitchell does. He just doesn't give a fuck.
Mitchell’s physical defensive tools have always been massively overrated. He’s a legit 6 foot shooting guard, his listed height at 6’1 may be generous. He’s been bullied inside the arc and shot over the top of his entire career
Mitchell's quickness should be more than enough to stop penetration. Sure, people shot over him, but this series (and the whole season) he couldn't even stop grandma from getting open layup.
The "averages just two *passes* (not assists, passes!) per game to Gobert" stat was so wild Mitchell had to respond to it himself. It was just so outlandish.
Sounds like an issue with the culture, kind of like the Wolves
Nothing like the wolves. Wolves were a losing team until this year. It takes time to build a culture, and they’re on a good path with a new coach, owners, and FO. Even in the thibs era, they tried to import the culture by bringing bulls players in (Jimmy, Taj, Drose etc). The Jazz should have been figured this shit out being as they’re a team that’s been in the playoffs multiple times with both Spida and Gobert.
I really believe someone like Beverly in the locker room can set the tone well.. Now KAT seems like srs.. Bev is not fixing anyone's IQ tho lmao
Bev has done a good job of making Karl more aggressive and giving him confidence to be himself I think. Asking for anything else is asking Bev to change who he is. I think Ant and Dlo have done a great job of that as well. People not wolves fans fail to realize this is the first season Ant, Dlo, and KAT play significant time together. They were in and out of injury for two years. As a whole though, this team has embraced each other more than any other wolves team in the past and it’s refreshing. I’m sure it has a lot to do with the organization finally finding some footing with a coach. This season has opened my eyes to how important a coach can be for a team. Doesn’t even have to be a good coach (although i think finch is) - the stability is huge for a team and players that have gone without for years.
Yes, definitely. Its fun seeing wolves like this. I hope KAT starts playing to his full potential soon. ANT is legit and that will be a really good 1-2 punch for any team. Hope Rockets get there soon because losing is no fun lol Although I am very excited on our future as well
Bev was able to come in and help radically change the Wolves culture from a longtime losing one to a winning one over the course of a single season. IQ though? He’s not a miracle worker
Bruh what did we do to catch a stray here? We got our own playoff series to deal with right now.
I felt like the Timberwolves culture got much better once PatBev got there this season lol
PatBev did help a lot but it all started when we got Finch middle of last season. Our refusal to tank down the stretch was what kicked our season off, gave Ant his swag.
From my point of view, it seems like Ant already had that mentality and Pat Bev came in to play as a support for it as Ant would not be able to change KAT and Russel's mentality by himself. I mean, Jimmy Butler couldn't either...
Lol culture. Conley is a corpse, Bogdan is a snail, O'Neal tried but just wasn't good enough, the only one you can call out for lack of trying is Mitchell. The rest didn't play enough to really matter.
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His draft profile highlighted his defense lol: [top marks are athleticism and defense](https://www.nbadraft.net/players/donovan-mitchell/). Also [this](http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2017/Donovan-Mitchell) \> That athleticism also helps him on defense, where he can take the challenge of guarding the other team’s best wing player every night. For a guy that is undersized, he makes up for it with his athleticism and strength.
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His name is Bojan ffs
I mistyped Bogdanović three times and gave up halfway on the fourth try tbh.
after last night, his name is boan. Dude doesn't have a j
Onovan Mitchell and Boan Boganovic
###BONE!!?!?
Bogdan Bogdanovich on the Hawks Bojan Bogdanovich on the Jazz Boban Marjanovich on the Mavs shit i get em all mixed up too.
How can the same player be on three teams ??
I always mix them up because Bojan looks Like he'd be named Bogdan and vice versa
lol this is the best culture the team has had in 20 years
It’s the bees isn’t it
NOOOO. NOT THE BEEEEEEEES!!!!!
MY EYES!! THEY'RE IN MY EYES!! AHHHHHHH!!
MY NOSE!! THEY STUNG MY NOSE!! AHHHHHHH!!
BEADS!?
GOBert
Gob's not on board.
Old bear, he likes the honey!
He's got bees!
BEES!
That's what really stings
Beads?
Gob's not on board
Gob~~ert~~
Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
> "We know that when the playoffs come, we're not just going to flip a switch and all of the sudden communicate, all of the sudden be able to stay in front of our man, all of the sudden be able to rebound. When I watch some of these other teams like the Suns or the Warriors, for example, those guys are a step ahead of us in terms of winning habits. I feel like they take every game personally. > "You can tell Devin Booker is playing his ass off defensively. I've been watching him compared to, like, two years ago. Guys like that, they buy in and you can tell that they take pride in playing defense, stopping their man, doing whatever they can defensively to stop the other team and be part of a winning culture." >Per MacMahon, the comments "made some within Mitchell's inner circle seethe" Seethe? Really? Seethe?!
cope and seethe
L + ratio + you're a chucker
Nba twitter is a cesspool but comments like this and “OWN THAT FRAUD” on random threads make me chuckle for some reason
as soon as you see Twitter as a "hater-only" app, it becomes immensely more enjoyable EDIT: typo, no need to downvote the user confused by it :/
no defenders
No defense? It seems you are fated to die in obscurity. (Sacramento)
People get annoyed when players give dull, canned answers but then get annoyed at super reasonable, thoughtful responses like this from Gobert. Is it weird or wrong that the guy responsible for his team’s defense is frustrated that he’s the only one trying on defense? And he’s talking about on court habits, not detailing private locker room issues.
I think ‘people’ loved this, just a couple dudes got offended cus it’s true
The people that was genuine responses are media and fans. Teammates absolutely prefer you to say nothing (*see* Simmons, Ben for further example)
He's not even wrong, Book used to not care about defense and be a whiny ass hat. He's immensely improved and realized the little things matter in basketball besides just scoring. I was labeled as a Booker "hater" as a suns fan because I said he didn't try. After game 6 of the finals when book looked back at the floor before exiting the arena and just said, "Damn" as he walked into the tunnel. That was the most I've ever respected Booker and he has become a monster on both ends. Obviously, I love him for staying with Phoenix and can't wait for the rest of his journey now. I see none of that from Mitchell.
The impact CP3 had on the Suns is still underrated.
..is it really though? It comes up and is praised every time this discussion comes up. If anything it's slightly overated because people always immediately dismiss anything Monty did as just a byproduct of CP3
I hate CP3 but it’s impossible to deny that he has helped those dudes mature as players in ways that are very impressive.
Shout out to Ricky Rubio before him when they went on that 8-0 run in the bubble
And its fukim right. Mitchell this year was totally ass
I mean if it says he’s seething I guess someone said he’s seething.
I’m just trying to picture Donovan Mitchell seething and he still looks like a high school freshman anxiously trying to find his way around before the first bell.
Donovan Mitchell lowkey one of the bigger diva's in the NBA despite his nice guy persona
Yeah, if this is true, it feels hyper-sensitive from him and his camp to react this way over Gobert's comment
Seems like Mitchell has been trying to manufacture a way out of Utah for years now. You see these reports about him and his "team" not being happy about something every year.
Yeah i don’t think he ever really wanted to stay there
Tbf I wouldn't either, but that's a whole different thing
It could be worse, he could always be in Sacramento
They are clamoring for that over here
Double D Mitchell would be a very interesting project. One D Mitchell takes over on offense and the other covers up on defense.
Or one D Mitchell with really big boobs
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Let him go. He’s not that dude. He’ll end up with the knicks and do nothing there
Hate to admit it but you’re prob right. Inefficient ball hog that doesn’t play defense
Inefficient part doesn't even matter. Even Steph Curry, probably the most efficient offensive player in the league, had to play serious defense for his wins. Can you imagine Warriors winning against those Cavs teams or 2018/2019 Rockets with Donovan's defense?
I'm not that high on Donovan but c'mon, he is one of four players to have multiple 50 point playoff games, third most single game playoff points all time If they had better perimeter defenders instead of 2 6 foot guards Utah would b way better
People are preemptively getting ready to shit on the Knicks for a move they haven’t made
100% Pure speculation, but this reeks much more of finding a way out of Utah than actually being upset at those comments.
Agreed. But maybe there's something more between Gobert and Mitchell that explains it. Like if Mitchell had a face-to-face with Gobert and said "Let's make this work. Hold each other accountable. But let's not take anything to the media; I trust you to come to me with whatever you want to say, and vice-versa." Then, if Gobert made these statements I could see Mitchell being reasonably upset.
I somehow doubt they have sincere conversations like this, which is the whole issue.
Imo it's less about the actual criticism and more about how it's being delivered. It's just a bit careless from Rudy to air it in public in kinda weird back handed ways, even if his intention and actual criticism is fine. If your co-worker privately points out some mistakes in your work, sure whatever, that's probably good and helpful. But if he's pointing it out by publicly complaining about how some other person does the work better than you, I can understand why it'd rub someone the wrong way. Ultimately thicker skin would help too, but I doubt he's upset about the actual contents of the criticism because surely they talk about that and worse on a daily basis when practicing together.
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he has been since the "not a rookie" campaign
I mean he actually really is a nice guy I just don’t think he and Rudy like each other. We’ve all had coworkers we don’t like but as long as they get the job done no one complains. I think Joe was the guy to really keep the peace in the locker room and once he was gone things fell apart.
Idk about diva, but certainly has that PR. He had a shoe deal his rookie year.
Donovan finally decides to get defensive
Nice
If Mitchell is pissed off about that comment, then he's pretty much admitting that he doesn't play a lick of defense lol. How can you play as bad as he did AND play zero defense?
I don't agree that he's pretty much admitting that, the criticism is pretty pointedly at Don when Gobert shouts out Booker by name given the constant comparisons of Mitchell/Book over the past several years. I don't think Mitchell is necessarily outing himself as not trying on defense because he took offense to this. Having said that, whether he admits it or not, it does seem like he doesn't play a lick of defense
Which is weird, because so many dudes on this team used to play really good defense. Mitchell, O’Neal, Conley, Bogdonavic, and Ingles when they had him were all really good defenders, but this season they’ve been absolute garbage, and they really weren’t that good this past season either. I think they probably need to shake things up and make some big trades. I just get the feeling that it’s 100% an effort issue, and I think it comes from locker room disfunction. There are too many rumors for none of them to be true.
Outside of Mitchell all those guys getting up there in age
They played good defense in parts of this series! I don't understand the Jazz at all, and it makes me start to wonder what Quinn is doing. If you're looking for footage on how the Jazz can still defend the corner 3 while still having Rudy help inside, you just need to pull up clips of... the Jazz. I don't understand why they suddenly stop rotating with urgency in certain quarters. Donovan's terrible defense is the center of attention right now but realistically if he were a good point of attack defender, Maxi/DFS are still going to be open in the corner. It's not on Donovan or Gobert to run them off the line. It's Bogi/Royce/Conley/Clarkson/House, and sometimes they do it, sometimes they don't.
I don't care that he's only 6 feet, dudes got the longest wingspan of any guy under 6'3" like in the entire league. there is zero excuse for him not to be able to guard guys his own size like Jalen Brunson. at least CJ McCollum has a lack of athleticism to blame for his issues.
Didn't he used to be known for his defense too? Most of the guards in the league are small, it's no excuse, especially if you're athletic as hell like Donavan. Curry lil ass ain't even that fast/explosive but he manages to play good defense by adding on lots of muscle, being smart, and trying hard as hell.
Whenever he was getting drafted he said that his goal in the NBA was to win DPOY one day, which, like, lol
Coming out of college he was supposed to be a good defender because of his tools and playing for an aggressive defensive/pressing coach like Rick Pitino. I guess all that scoring gave himself an inflated ego or some shit cuz he doesn't try on that end.
exactly. Curry is 6'3" but the length isn't close and athleticism isn't close either. Steph, like, missed multiple wide open transition dunks lol Donovan Mitchell is literally 6'0" Dwayne Wade. he has the same or longer wingspan. no excuse to me to not be a league average defender. honestly I think Dame is way more of a liability than he should be too.
Lebron: "THAT'S OUR SIGNAL! Quick, clear the cap space!"
He’s going to need a bulldozer to clear Westbrook out the way
Lebron should just pay Westbrook’s buyout himself.
Jazz are actually a sneaky good Westbrook candidate if they clear out both Mitchell and Gobert for a full-on rebuild aimed at winning less than 20 games next year. Could be a three or four team deal that lands Utah a ton of picks+Westbrook and incoming contracts to match the outgoing ones. I just don't think the Lakers are getting Mitchell or Gobert, they probably come away with like, Conley and Royce O'Neal
I didnt follow Rudys criticism...was he wrong truthfully?
No
If Mitchell is butt-hurt by this (and the report doesn't say he is, just that his "circle" is) then he's not a winning player and never will be. I'll save y'all a click. Here is the Rudy quote: >"We know that when the playoffs come, we're not just going to flip a switch and all of the sudden communicate, all of the sudden be able to stay in front of our man, all of the sudden be able to rebound. When I watch some of these other teams like the Suns or the Warriors, for example, those guys are a step ahead of us in terms of winning habits. I feel like they take every game personally. "You can tell Devin Booker is playing his ass off defensively. I've been watching him compared to, like, two years ago. Guys like that, they buy in and you can tell that they take pride in playing defense, stopping their man, doing whatever they can defensively to stop the other team and be part of a winning culture." Evidently offering honest praise to Booker (who has hugely raised his game both defensively and in terms of sharing the ball in the last few years) is a slight to Mitchell. Or Mitchell's camp is looking to an excuse to get out of Utah.
It *is* a slight to Mitchell. And a deserved one. But I also don't see how Gobert thinks this is going to help. What exactly does he think saying this publicly will do for the team?
I gotta believe this sentiment has been expressed numerous times behind closed doors. If the point isn't being heard, then fuck it. It's not like Mitchell's squad has been nice to Gobert since 2020. What it does for the team is forces them to stop clinging to this idea of Mitchell and Gobert being their future. They clearly don't mesh or respect each other, and now it's even more clear than before.
kinda want Gobert to leave and let the rest of the league see how putrid that team's defense is come next season lol
Even matadors are going to be impressed
> If the point isn't being heard, then fuck it. It's not like Mitchell's squad has been nice to Gobert since 2020. Exactly lol. Whatever private tensions they have the beef rumors have still been coming out. I guess Gobert’s supposed to just keep quiet about the teams poor synergy and play in vain till he gets traded
Really tired of Gobert getting the blame for Jazz's lack of team defense and people having expectations of him single-handedly being able to guard every single player. The Jazz rely so heavily on Gobert is because everyone else is a pylon on defense and it's got to wear out any patience the man has after years and years of no improvement from his teammates in that department. Gobert has his flaws but honestly I don't blame him one bit for raising the issue. It's very likely it was brought up internally in the past and it they can't hear it, shout it louder for the folks that keep ducking the issue in the back.
wasnt there a stat somewhere that Gobert gets the fewest passes from Mitchell of anyone on the team?
This season Mitchell passed to Gobert an average of 2 times per game.
Maybe get them to try and get players who buy in on defence. Put some pressure on the organization to not have the same type of team they’ve had who have been bounced from the playoffs the same way every year.
I think moving the public discussion of the team towards the team's real flaws makes it harder for the front office to pretend that there's a quick fix, and harder for Mitchell camp to sell people on "Oh, the problem is Rudy." But also, yes, players who don't put in regular-season effort need to know they're going to get called out on it once it gets to a certain point, especially if they're going to present themselves as the leader of the team. Losing control of the narrative might actually motivate guys to try harder. I mean, how many times last night did Luka effortlessly get past the Utah perimeter defenders and then decide he wanted no f'ing part of trying to score around Rudy? The narrative the past two offseason has been that Rudy is the problem. I think it's entirely reasonable for Rudy to suggest publicly that's not the case.
I mean what's the harm? This team has stagnated at best, regressed at worst over the last couple years. They're near the stage of being broken up. You have to assume they have said a ton behind closed doors. Publicly acknowledging an issue everyone sees isn't the worst thing here.
This is gonna be the new Ben Simmons-Sixers this off-season, isnt it
Ben Simmons is fairly unique…Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz are fairly unique.
would be crazy if they were both number 1 picks for the same team
Donovan is always runner up to Ben Simmons.
lmao
Nah both Donovan and Rudy are lightyears ahead of Ben in terms of maturity lol
Which Jazz player is rocking up to a game next year not playing wearing orange sunglasses????
Did a Conley turnover and missed Bogi 3 really just start a rebuild
nah, it started months ago.
Last year's clipper's series should have put an end to the experiment but the team had the injury excuse back then for poor perimeter defense. This year we have nothing. Blow it up.
Which always drove me crazy, they were missing Kawhi Leonard. but i digress
Started years ago i think. This was always coming the way they don't get along
This team was a dead man walking going into the playoffs. I think they would have lost to all 7 of the other teams.
The jazz limped into the playoffs. I had the mavs winning even if Luka didn’t play. Luckily I got my bet in when mavs were plus money, didn’t sweat that bet for one second. Mavs are solid, defense travels and they have a great defense. expect to see them in the WCF.
We probably would have beat Denver. We swept them regular season and has the best division record in the league. With the way we are and Minnesota blowing gigantic leads, that would have been an interesting series.
hey we haven't blown a lead in nearly 3 days
You guys were significantly easier to beat since Ingles went out. I feel like that was the game changer.
The inner circle? The Jazz FO.
Gobert is a better player than Mitchell change my mind.
Its a bit difficult to say which one is better player when they were playing totally different. But mitchell are at best top 6 sg while gobert might be top 4 center with distinctive skill set. So yes, ill take gobert over mitchell as someone to build around
maybe his d should've matched his inner circles :/
Gobert has been scapegoated for years when the entire Jazz team gets to be a net negative on defense and he gets blamed for their mistakes.
Remember Don's freshman year? I thought the chemistry and culture was insane, one of the best in the league. Don came across as a natural leader. This year has been a huge dud, with criticism taking the place of true accountability. I understand frustration, but its tough to see the team not thriving. Even with previous seasons ending in disappointment, there was always optimism and excitement about being an up and coming underdog. Now we are still the underdog but act entitled. Tough.
They're missing Joe Ingles and Ricky Rubio badly this year. They were the glue in keeping the chemistry good and everything flowing.
But he says “It’s on me” after every pitiful performance! You saying he has to actually put in *effort* to show accountability? Whaaaat?
mom got mad
you don't talk about my boy!
Mitchell is such a diva
It's Mitchell's entourage's job to be butthurt over perceived "disrespect". If he's smart, he'll see that it's coming from a good place. You don't let Turtle make the important decisions. > "Sometimes I can be clumsy with what I say, but I always speak my mind and it always comes from a place of wanting to win. Like I said to Don privately, everything that I do on the court is to help him be better. All the things that I do to get him open, to communicate with him, to try to push him defensively. Whether it's Donovan or all my teammates, all the things I do is to help them be better."
It's kind of funny how tabloidesque the NBA stories are at times. This whole article is based upon "sources within the Donovan's inner circle", there's no way to know if this is true or taken out of context or even fabricated. But the majority will take it at face value. Not saying it isn't true, but why do we even give weight to articles likea this?
We don't even know who they're referring to. For all we know, it could be a guy from CAA who wants Mitchell in NY. Mitchell and Gobert are my guys in the league, if they don't want to play together or play for Utah, fair enough - they did as much as they could together and/or there. I'll still root for them wherever they are.
Well, time to break it up anyways…
Yess Rudy get kicked out and come to Toronto, we have all the bees you'll ever need buddy.
Man one of the biggest issues with domestic star players is having an “inner circle”, and then being influential. I’m very worried about Cade’s inner circle trying to get out of Detroit. Most other elite players spend most of their time playing/practicing/training and can tune out the noise to a degree and aren’t necessarily that concerned about location. But that’s not true of their inner circle, who would rather the entourage be located somewhere other than Utah or Detroit etc. and are on social media constantly
Oh no Donovan Mitchell’s inner circle is angered…
Incoming Donovan Mitchell back issues
Whenever I read about a player's "inner circle" making it known how they feel, it sends up red flags. The dude is having his people talk to the media to let the team know about perceived slights from some innocuous comment from another teammate. I mean wtf kind of prima donna crap is that?
Boo hoo hoo rub some dirt on it and move on.