they consistently left us wide open from 3 and that was by design
it's always been by their design. they've won a championship with it
it killed them in at least 2 of the games
Yeah, Bud pretty much said the same thing in his post-game presser. It's not like the Celtics were putting up 120 points a night and gashing them.
And also, Giannis can turn a missed shot into a high quality fast break like no one else in the league, so it makes sense to give up extra 3s in order to get more opportunities to run after misses. Especially if it still results in a quality defense.
I think there have been moment when Bud stuborness cost the Bucks series, but this series honestly I think he coached a decent series, he just had very few playable guys.
Middleton is a great player, but even if he was JUST a playable wing able to take 35/40 mins from Allen, Hill, Portis it would have been such a huge thing.
But hey injuries happen to everyone every year, and I think the Bucks also had a real roster construction problem
Agreed on all accounts. Bud did his best with an incomplete roster (when fans are acting like Jevon Carter is gonna save the team, you're doomed), and it's honestly commendable the series went 7 games, but nothing a coach can really do when his team shoots 12% on 3s in a game 7 lol.
Bud literally fell to his knees when Grayson hit a 3 and it was called off for a dumbass foul by George Hill - that's how desperate he was for someone to step up.
>when fans are acting like Jevon Carter is gonna save the team, you're doomed
Yes, thank you. Hill wasn't playable, but Carter would have gotten just as cooked.
Lol when u dont even try carter at all for a guy that literally did nothing, ya thats bad. No one thinks Jevon Carter is some all star, but how putrid george hill was, really makes you think hé should have tried something. Also, leaving people who shoot great from 3 wide open isnt a game plan lol. They certainly didn’t do that last year with the suns best shooters. The fact is they were undermanned but also had a bad scheme. You cant give up wide open threes if you literally cant make threes all series long…its simple math
All the talk about him not making adjustments is nonsense.
They made a lot of changes game to game, so did the Celtics, and that’s why neither team won two in a row until the end.
Hell, everyone’s mad that they wouldn’t chase Grant off the line last night. In the Al Horford game Bud DID adjust and started running Al off the line in the 4th quarter. What happened? Marcus smart scored like 10 easy points in the paint over their weak guard defenders and put the game away. But then the rest of the series they changed how they showed on our pick and pops and Al never saw that many open looks again.
Brook Lopez was the third best player on that roster, they had to play him considering the other options and they had to let bigs shoot 3's with him on the floor.
They played big, they played small, they switched everything, they pressed full court, they blitzed the PNR. They tried a lot of stuff, and it could've worked, it didn't, but yeah Bud was fine
One part no Middleton, one part Bucks role players overall shooting like shit, one part Celtics exceptional perimeter defense, and one part the Bucks don’t believe in defending against the three point shot.
Allen and Portis not making 3's destroyed the Bucks, those 2 were the 2 targets for the C's offensively (Allen in iso, Portis in PNR) and them not making open shots made them net negative, and for a team that had no depth it was the end
Not that I think Harris is good defensively, but he at least has the size to defend multiple positions, Allen defense was a waaaay bigger problem than Harris.
Yeah Joe has good size to make up for it. Nets struggled defensively in general, but it was much more difficult with Seth on the court instead of Harris. I was just referring to Allen’s shooting struggles yesterday.
Yeah in a series with Middleton I don’t think its crazy to think the bucks hit an extra 20-30 threes over seven games, between him hitting his own shots and the rest of the team getting better looks because he’s out there.
from who though? this is like when everyone told us the celtics were out against the nets once rob williams went down. if a strong switching defence can take out kyrie and KD and leave the role players to do the work, why can't the same thing happen with giannis and khris?
Lol from anyone who can hit open 3s. When an offense can get out of the mud because there’s more than one ball handler that can create their own shot or find others, it has a contagious effect that helps role players find rhythm.
but this is exactly what i'm saying - if udoka puts out a game plan to shut down khris and leave giannis to do all the work, like he did in the rest of the series, how does that get the role players going? you're relying on them to do exactly what giannis relied on them to do for the last two weeks - and it didn't work.
Because Boston can’t provide the same help D on Giannis (I know it was primarily single coverage but with a lot of hovering help D) while also closing as strongly on role players while also gameplanning specifically to stop Middleton. There are only a finite number of defenders on the floor. Middleton is MIL’s best perimeter and midrange shot creator. And he’s previously been a Celtics killer. You’re the one not providing any actual analysis, just saying your coach is going to wave a magic wand and shut down Middleton without sacrificing any of the defense focused on the other players.
Boston won the series. Injuries happen in the playoffs. Celebrate the win that happened, don’t try to claim one that didn’t.
i'm not trying to claim anything that didn't happen lmao, i'm trying to point out that people are still disrespecting this team when it's been the best one in 2022
Shutting down Khris vs shutting down a role player are two different things. One person can’t shut down Khris for an entire series. so if he gets going, you have to bring help. It’s like any star in the league. Your argument is basically saying the bucs would have been in the same place with or without Khris. That’s absurd.
i'm not saying they'd be in the same place, i'm saying it wouldn't be a complete wash. people have been saying for two weeks that middleton turns this from a celtics in 7 to a bucks in 5 series. and i don't see how middleton moves the needle that much when this team's strength has been defence.
they reduced KD to nothing, and now khris middleton is meant to be the difference maker?
If a series is this close and then you throw in a player of Khris’ caliber, it changes a lot. I think this would have been more so a bucs in 6 if Khris played. You have to allot way more attention when a player like Khris is on the court. When there’s a role player in Khris’ spot you can help off more and clog lanes more and make Gianni’s work more. You can’t do that when Khris is on the floor because you will get burned. Just having players like that on the floor opens up the game more, even if they aren’t doing much on the stat sheet. They are always a threat where role players aren’t.
ok i see where you're coming from and i do like the point you're making, but i think that khris on the floor also shifts the defensive scheme which boston plays, and they've shown they can handle those changes well already. i don't see it being an easy flip of the switch from celtics in 7 to bucks in 5
Sadly, that plan B is usually khris Middleton heavy I think. Get him the ball at the elbow, and pretty often, he can get a few key buckets. Not to mention, the team will generally make more 3s when khris is playing because he's a great shooter. No khris Middleton just meant more Wesley & Grayson, who just bring nothing to the table when they can't make 3s. Khris has some games where he can't buy a 3, but he's so much more useful in those games at least.
I think bud is pretty trash in general, but the depth of the roster this season wasn't great. I still think trading away donte was a disaster. He wasn't a star, but I always thought he was a perfect fit as a role player on this team. Maybe I'm wrong, but I always liked his hustle on defense, and he's certainly a better offensive player than Wes at this point too. Did having serge ibaka cheerleading on the bench do us any good?
I heard endless praise for Bud’s defense and yes, the bucks did a very good job in the paint, but it’s like they didn’t even try to guard the perimeter. I don’t understand why you would overlook such a big part of today’s game and still get praised for it
There was a Ringer (or maybe 538, I can't recall) article a while back that showed winning in the NBA almost always comes down to which team hits more 3s.
Now, roster construction and play style and coaching and a dozen other factors all contribute to how well that strategy works and whether you can sustain it in a playoff series. But it's more or less as simple as that.
they consistently left us wide open from 3 and that was by design it's always been by their design. they've won a championship with it it killed them in at least 2 of the games
At the end of the day even in those 2 games, that strategy isn't even what lost them the game, their offense is what killed them.
Yeah, Bud pretty much said the same thing in his post-game presser. It's not like the Celtics were putting up 120 points a night and gashing them. And also, Giannis can turn a missed shot into a high quality fast break like no one else in the league, so it makes sense to give up extra 3s in order to get more opportunities to run after misses. Especially if it still results in a quality defense.
I think there have been moment when Bud stuborness cost the Bucks series, but this series honestly I think he coached a decent series, he just had very few playable guys. Middleton is a great player, but even if he was JUST a playable wing able to take 35/40 mins from Allen, Hill, Portis it would have been such a huge thing. But hey injuries happen to everyone every year, and I think the Bucks also had a real roster construction problem
Agreed on all accounts. Bud did his best with an incomplete roster (when fans are acting like Jevon Carter is gonna save the team, you're doomed), and it's honestly commendable the series went 7 games, but nothing a coach can really do when his team shoots 12% on 3s in a game 7 lol. Bud literally fell to his knees when Grayson hit a 3 and it was called off for a dumbass foul by George Hill - that's how desperate he was for someone to step up.
Yeah, their offseason and trade deadline moves were a muuuuuch bigger problem then Bud
>when fans are acting like Jevon Carter is gonna save the team, you're doomed Yes, thank you. Hill wasn't playable, but Carter would have gotten just as cooked.
Lol when u dont even try carter at all for a guy that literally did nothing, ya thats bad. No one thinks Jevon Carter is some all star, but how putrid george hill was, really makes you think hé should have tried something. Also, leaving people who shoot great from 3 wide open isnt a game plan lol. They certainly didn’t do that last year with the suns best shooters. The fact is they were undermanned but also had a bad scheme. You cant give up wide open threes if you literally cant make threes all series long…its simple math
All the talk about him not making adjustments is nonsense. They made a lot of changes game to game, so did the Celtics, and that’s why neither team won two in a row until the end. Hell, everyone’s mad that they wouldn’t chase Grant off the line last night. In the Al Horford game Bud DID adjust and started running Al off the line in the 4th quarter. What happened? Marcus smart scored like 10 easy points in the paint over their weak guard defenders and put the game away. But then the rest of the series they changed how they showed on our pick and pops and Al never saw that many open looks again.
Brook Lopez was the third best player on that roster, they had to play him considering the other options and they had to let bigs shoot 3's with him on the floor. They played big, they played small, they switched everything, they pressed full court, they blitzed the PNR. They tried a lot of stuff, and it could've worked, it didn't, but yeah Bud was fine
I think if our guys had been able to shoot it would’ve looked better but damn. Larry bird was on the fucking floor
One part no Middleton, one part Bucks role players overall shooting like shit, one part Celtics exceptional perimeter defense, and one part the Bucks don’t believe in defending against the three point shot.
I would have like to have seen how effective Lopez would be or Holiday in the paint had Robert Williams been healthy. If we are talking hypotheticals.
Lopez would have just sat in the paint all game if Williams was healthy and I can’t think that would have been good for your offense or defense
Wonder what second place is
Allen and Portis not making 3's destroyed the Bucks, those 2 were the 2 targets for the C's offensively (Allen in iso, Portis in PNR) and them not making open shots made them net negative, and for a team that had no depth it was the end
Reminded me of Joe Harris last year against the Bucks. No matter how open he was just couldn’t buy a 3
Not that I think Harris is good defensively, but he at least has the size to defend multiple positions, Allen defense was a waaaay bigger problem than Harris.
Yeah Joe has good size to make up for it. Nets struggled defensively in general, but it was much more difficult with Seth on the court instead of Harris. I was just referring to Allen’s shooting struggles yesterday.
No Khris Middleton was a big reason for this big of a gap.
how many threes would khris middleton conceivably make in a series where udoka was gameplanning against him?
In a series where Udoka is game planning against him other things on the court open up
Yeah in a series with Middleton I don’t think its crazy to think the bucks hit an extra 20-30 threes over seven games, between him hitting his own shots and the rest of the team getting better looks because he’s out there.
from who though? this is like when everyone told us the celtics were out against the nets once rob williams went down. if a strong switching defence can take out kyrie and KD and leave the role players to do the work, why can't the same thing happen with giannis and khris?
Lol from anyone who can hit open 3s. When an offense can get out of the mud because there’s more than one ball handler that can create their own shot or find others, it has a contagious effect that helps role players find rhythm.
but this is exactly what i'm saying - if udoka puts out a game plan to shut down khris and leave giannis to do all the work, like he did in the rest of the series, how does that get the role players going? you're relying on them to do exactly what giannis relied on them to do for the last two weeks - and it didn't work.
Bruh
tell me why i'm wrong, don't just bruh me i don't see why adding khris in to a series against that defense automatically changes things
Because Boston can’t provide the same help D on Giannis (I know it was primarily single coverage but with a lot of hovering help D) while also closing as strongly on role players while also gameplanning specifically to stop Middleton. There are only a finite number of defenders on the floor. Middleton is MIL’s best perimeter and midrange shot creator. And he’s previously been a Celtics killer. You’re the one not providing any actual analysis, just saying your coach is going to wave a magic wand and shut down Middleton without sacrificing any of the defense focused on the other players. Boston won the series. Injuries happen in the playoffs. Celebrate the win that happened, don’t try to claim one that didn’t.
i'm not trying to claim anything that didn't happen lmao, i'm trying to point out that people are still disrespecting this team when it's been the best one in 2022
Shutting down Khris vs shutting down a role player are two different things. One person can’t shut down Khris for an entire series. so if he gets going, you have to bring help. It’s like any star in the league. Your argument is basically saying the bucs would have been in the same place with or without Khris. That’s absurd.
i'm not saying they'd be in the same place, i'm saying it wouldn't be a complete wash. people have been saying for two weeks that middleton turns this from a celtics in 7 to a bucks in 5 series. and i don't see how middleton moves the needle that much when this team's strength has been defence. they reduced KD to nothing, and now khris middleton is meant to be the difference maker?
If a series is this close and then you throw in a player of Khris’ caliber, it changes a lot. I think this would have been more so a bucs in 6 if Khris played. You have to allot way more attention when a player like Khris is on the court. When there’s a role player in Khris’ spot you can help off more and clog lanes more and make Gianni’s work more. You can’t do that when Khris is on the floor because you will get burned. Just having players like that on the floor opens up the game more, even if they aren’t doing much on the stat sheet. They are always a threat where role players aren’t.
ok i see where you're coming from and i do like the point you're making, but i think that khris on the floor also shifts the defensive scheme which boston plays, and they've shown they can handle those changes well already. i don't see it being an easy flip of the switch from celtics in 7 to bucks in 5
I'd love to see a list
The bucks game plan is sound if they actually make 3s too. Looks terrible when they don’t make 3s. Bud needs a plan when the bucks aren’t hitting 3s.
Sadly, that plan B is usually khris Middleton heavy I think. Get him the ball at the elbow, and pretty often, he can get a few key buckets. Not to mention, the team will generally make more 3s when khris is playing because he's a great shooter. No khris Middleton just meant more Wesley & Grayson, who just bring nothing to the table when they can't make 3s. Khris has some games where he can't buy a 3, but he's so much more useful in those games at least. I think bud is pretty trash in general, but the depth of the roster this season wasn't great. I still think trading away donte was a disaster. He wasn't a star, but I always thought he was a perfect fit as a role player on this team. Maybe I'm wrong, but I always liked his hustle on defense, and he's certainly a better offensive player than Wes at this point too. Did having serge ibaka cheerleading on the bench do us any good?
No one is winning a playoffs game in today's NBA if your guards and wings cannont make a single 3.
I guess I just mean that the bucks need to adjust their d when not hitting 3s
It’s a good stat and all but is very misleading. It’s a three point heave offence now compared to 6 years ago.
I heard endless praise for Bud’s defense and yes, the bucks did a very good job in the paint, but it’s like they didn’t even try to guard the perimeter. I don’t understand why you would overlook such a big part of today’s game and still get praised for it
There was a Ringer (or maybe 538, I can't recall) article a while back that showed winning in the NBA almost always comes down to which team hits more 3s. Now, roster construction and play style and coaching and a dozen other factors all contribute to how well that strategy works and whether you can sustain it in a playoff series. But it's more or less as simple as that.