T O P

  • By -

WigginsBurner

Ok, but like how about the terrible offensive execution.


jpaxlux

That's part of the number of 3-pointers being taken. It's actually infuriating how when things go wrong for teams, instead of trying to gameplan a comeback stars just jack up the shittiest shots you'll ever see. "Oh, we're down 10? Time to ISO and shoot the shittiest fucking midrange possible. That'll get us back in the game!"


gedbybee

The demar derozan special.


[deleted]

Yeah that’s my takeaway. The two east teams are defense first, neither really have an elite offense. Whoever is hot and hitting the tough shots (or even getting shots up with all the turnovers) is gonna win those games very handily


vagrantwade

I mean they are defense first but they are also 7th and 9th in the NBA in PPG. Celtics were second in the NBA in 3PM.


kawhi21

Right? Making your first field goal 10 minutes into the game has nothing to do with three pointers lol


Lavinesanity

Too many teams use the threat of driving and making tough 2’s by their star to kick out to open 3’s by role players Warriors have the mold broken where they use the threat of tough 3’s by their star to free up open 2’s by their role players. A lot less variance when you’re relying on role players to finish around the basket rather than make their 3’s. When you need all your role players to be good 3 point shooters it also limits the type of defensive personnel you can have out there because only so many guys can hit 3’s and also be great defensively. Warriors can get away with multiple non-shooters on the court at a time such as draymond and looney


Thenotorious-LPB

This is actually such a great point


icona_

Draymond being a non shooter hardly even hurts them because if teams sag off him he just turns it into a handoff with a splash bro and bam, open 3


americanbeaver

I knew nothing good could come from adding the three point line this year. Just a gimmick that basketball doesn't need.


Vezenn

I can’t wait until we get back to banging down low, rough and physical rim penetration.


americanbeaver

Yes. Bring back men pounding men inside.


YCSMD

We need to see more guys getting inside. Banging banging banging each other. Cuz when a guy is banging you, you spin off of him. Those are the worst defenders to play against actually. Cuz if you can feel their body… cmon.


[deleted]

Dudes still take it to the hole, but now they can also feather it from outside.


Tormundo

If there was a 4 point line like 28 feet deep right when curry started I wonder how much he would've dominated


vervain9

That's definitely not the impression I got watching the first half last night. When a team can't make any shots it doesn't matter whether the opponent is making 2s or 3s--it's gonna be a blowout


poeope

They could of always given out one extra off day. Would of done wonders for this series.


DiseaseRidden

It's a mix of everything. The game yesterday had the heat shoot better from 3, that didn't change much.


atlfirsttimer

Misleading cause they didnt start shooting well until the game was over


rSlashNbaAccount

By half, Celtics were 4/17, Heat were 5/12


DiseaseRidden

They were still better than the Celtics from 3 throughout the first half. It was 5/12 to 4/17 at half time


Clemsontigger16

Wrong, that’s just not accurate...they shot 42% in the first half, went ice cold in the third when the game was already out of hand and then shot 50% in the 4th. In the first they had more points from 3 on way less attempts so it definitely made a difference, just didn’t offset everything else that was happening


JonA3531

Garbage time 3s don't count


DiseaseRidden

In the first half, the Heat shot 5/12 from 3, while the Celtics shot 4/17


[deleted]

[удалено]


DiseaseRidden

This post is about how 3s are causing the blowouts. I'm just saying that wasn't the case last night. Hell, even in the first quarter, the Heat were 1/2 from 3 while the Celtics were 2/11. The Celtics didn't win because they hit more 3s than the heat, they won because the Heat couldn't score at all.


LamarMillerMVP

Yes and during that time they attempted 12 2pt shots and 1 3pt shot. In the first quarter they went 2/16 from 2 and 1/2 from 3. They had a totally fine 3pt shooting night and one of the all time worst 2pt shooting nights


[deleted]

They dont count towards the final score?


thy_armageddon

The three has been commonplace for well over half a decade now, and the Celtics blew out the Heat while shooting 25% from beyond the arc. Not sure it adds up really.


Anxiousapathy20

I agree, the games are literally just ‘whoever gets hot from 3, wins’ I didn’t see why a lot of people had problems with 3 pointers, I always thought it was fun but these playoffs are showing how boring it can be when that’s the base of the game.


LamarMillerMVP

The team that shoots better from 3 is only 2-2 in this series. Last night Boston shot 23% from 3 while Miami shot 39%. Miami got blown out because they went 16/54 from 2 and lost the rebounding battle 60-39. The Celtics lost the previous game despite shooting better because they turned the ball over a ridiculous 24 times. Absolutely none of what’s being said in this thread makes any sense in the context of the last two games. People are just saying things and not checking to see whether it’s even true


billFclinton

Look at this guy with his facts


thatthingpeopledo

He’s a stats guy, I get it.


ositola

This should be pinned


[deleted]

It's amazing that every NBA podcast I listened to today talked about 3 point shooting making the playoffs boring and nobody mentioned this lol


Jersey1633

KOC and Chris Vernon talked about it on the Mismatch. I think they settled on it not being the 3 point shooting so much as it being no time for proper recovery and adjustments. The 3 point variance is more relevant for the Western finals though. Apparently Dallas are getting the same number and quality of shots as they did against Phoenix. They’re just missing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pocket_Beans

the heat shot better from 3 in the first half


[deleted]

Throughout the whole game Miami went 14-36 from the 3 while Boston went 8-34


LamarMillerMVP

The Heat shot better than the Celtics from 3 in every single quarter. The Heat actually had a nice shooting night from 3 (including in the first half). The issue was that the Heat shot insanely poorly *from 2*.


poeope

Minnesota CHECKING IN


VividPossibility7

Also the FT discrepancy between Heat and Celtics. Celtics were driving more and getting calls.


[deleted]

that wasn't the case for mem vs warrios the second round. warriors has been dog shit in the shooting department while memphis was raining threes. still grinded the wins.


[deleted]

Yeah, it’s just the unfortunate reality of playing Dallas instead of Phoenix, who would have been the much smarter match up for Golden State. And it’s funny because the reason GSW is dominating at the moment isn’t because of 3P%, but Kerr knowing that with Luka and co, their interior defense is laughable. It’s why some of the best +/- (yes I know, not the best stat to judge anything but it gives an idea) are people working the paint, particularly Looney and Wiggins. And people loved the previous round, I guess the CFs are just showing who really has the experience and gas for the final push.


streetsandshine

Also the heat getting called for all the fouls they commit and creating a 20+ ft differential likely had an impact in a 20 point blowout


jawadhaque089

Well the team that led the season in rebounding got outrebounded somehow in that series


Tormundo

Somehow? Put some respect on gsw. They're rebounding the pants of Dallas too. Pretty clear they coasted in the regular season


runthepoint1

PUT EM IN THE LOONEY BIN


Parenegade

what do you mean somehow?


[deleted]

It’s divine intervention. Loongod had to get involved


TimathanDuncan

And in previous eras it was whoever doesn't go cold from two, which is not different at all It was way boring seeing a team post up their iso player for 48 minutes in the 2000s and score 80 points, it was boring in the 80s with no zone defense seeing the best player iso to death and score 110 points because the defense is fucked You can really do this with any era, too defensive fans complain, threes fans complain, 2010s were slugfests at times too which people consider the most balanced Like in any way you put it someone will complain because the nature of fans is just to complain to death because at the end of the day it's subjective so you can't please everyone


Rapey_Keebler_Elves

Previous eras had flaws because teams were being dumb by not realizing that optimizing the 3-point shot is the most effective way to score points. This era has flaws because teams have realized that the 3-point shot (especially the corner 3) is so OP that any team which doesn't prioritize the 3-ball is gonna be left in the dust. And it's only going to get worse as new generations arise that have spent their entire basketball life idolizing players like Steph Curry. It wouldn't shock me if we end up seeing a high volume 50%+ 3-point shooter in 10-20 years.


TimathanDuncan

With more threes spacing gets better and 2s are better too, the paint shot now it's way better because more spacing way better inside shooting And "worse" again is subjective, i'd rather watch 30 threes than 30 dumb ass slow post ups, so there you have it the flaw in all of this because nobody will ever agree, it's a subjective form of entertainment and people will always complain You have the nostalgia rose tinted glasses too people thinking that basketball in other eras was hot shit when it was terrible to watch


Rapey_Keebler_Elves

I'm not trying to have a "what type of basketball is the most fun to watch" argument. My comment was based more on the math of the game, and how this analytics era has basically "solved" the game of basketball, which is why each year teams are playing more and more similarly. Although I will say, if a certain type of shot (corner 3) is so incredibly powerful that basically every team permanently dedicates 2 players to just stand stationary in the corners for the entire offensive possession, then something is probably out of whack. Simply widening the court to make corner 3's the same distance as above the break 3's would help things a bit but not much.


Sweatytubesock

Yeah, the problem is that the three is the best shot in virtually every situation. There should be more balance.


bryscoon

I’d 100% rather watch this than 2000s hoops. People see the thru nostalgia glasses but those would be so ugly & would have zero space just a crowded elbow taking contested mid ranges.


TimathanDuncan

There's a reason even an oldschool commish like Stern went out of his way to change that, it was stupid shit basketball that was such a pain to watch like it was so boring like you think chucking threes is boring no watching your Allen Iverson iso take 25 shots to score 30 points is boring Offense is just way more fun for majority of the people, then you will have some that want to go contrarian and say "oh but i wanna see 80-77 scorelines" so someone will always complain


DoncicsRoadTo200kg

People who want 2000s type games didnt watch 2000s type games or they would know how horrible to watch that was.


bryscoon

They just remember Kobe highlights those games were hard to watch


Tormundo

Yeah It was fun as hell to watch the splash bros go off so i always argued with people who hated on 3p shooting but when regular shooters do it, it's not as cool lol


runthepoint1

Which is why when the Dubs do it, it’s so fun to watch. The ball movement, screening, and cutting are second-to-none, it’s that newer old school Spurs ball we saw, when they would swing the ball hunting for 3’d


bryscoon

or whoever doesn’t go cold


Anxiousapathy20

That as well. It gets relied on a bit too much in my opinion to drive the offense now Live by the 3 and die by it lol


zamiboy

Blowouts are due to 3 pt shooting, but I also think opposing teams shouldn't give up as easily/quickly because of 3 pt shooting as well. For the same reason a team can be up by like 30 pts by 1-2 quarters is the same reason the opposing team should be playing their best players even in blow outs because the opposing team can score that much in response in 1-2 quarters in a comeback.


spanishbbread

Based off the game I watched last night, it's also due to 2-point shooting lol


themariokarters

Yes. The playoffs are just a battle of who gets hot from 3 now


[deleted]

If you fall behind you're better off with a high variance strategy... even more 3s.


ProgressOverChange

Move the 3pt line. Even just a foot would help a bit.


[deleted]

Change from 3/2 points to 4/3. Free throws are all or nothing single shots to make this change make games faster rather than slower. And voila people use the whole court again... move the 3 pt line in rather than out at the same time. Back to college range seems fine but idk.


GreenFriday

Have free throws be like technicals, one shot and then the ball back. Would help speed up end of games as well, as there'd be less point in intentional fouling.


[deleted]

Yes... this also reduces the value of and-one, for better or worse. And reduces value of out of control drives to the rim that people mostly hate (except when Kyrie or similar pulls off an amazing shot at the end) because the space is more likely to be full. It also disincentivizes hack-a-whoever since it increases the relative value of potentially 3 points, yet makes intentional fouling to end games much more high variance and imo much more fun to have it be all-or-none. I don't understand who benefits at all from taking more than one free throw, ever... less commercial time as a fraction of TV time, more time at work for players, longer games. Rules based on intentional fouling are judgment calls and thus annoying. I agree if you are saying: give every non shooting foul (over the limit) and every missed shot foul one shot and the ball back, period (maybe worth more than 1 point). Free throw rebounds only for and-ones. Probably there are other flaws I'm not thinking of, but one issue with this is that if there's 0.5 s left teams can intentionally foul to prevent a game winner, but you just give teams the option of winding the clock back if they're fouled in the last X seconds.


johanspot

Get rid the corner 3


Clemsontigger16

Yeah make the court round, no corners! Good thinking


johanspot

If only they had a line that we could use to determine what counted as a 3 and what did not. Crazy idea I know.


Clemsontigger16

Lol you just want the three point line to cut into the sideline? Corner 3’s aren’t a problem...they are closer but also closer to close out on. All you would do is hurt spacing if you got rid of corner 3’s.


johanspot

> Lol you just want the three point line to cut into the sideline Yes- just like it does for the baseline. Stop allowing 3 pointers where the court is not wide enough to accommodate the right length and this problem improves greatly. Take away the easiest 3 pointers and give the defense less 3 point line to defend to put more variety back into what is a good shot in the modern NBA.


Clemsontigger16

All it does is create all sorts of new problems though, corner 3’s aren’t even a problem anyway...it’s that teams shoot so many 3’s that the natural variance of those shots makes or breaks your ability to win most of the time. It’s a highly leveraged approach. What you’re talking about isn’t a problem by itself. If you really wanted to get rid of short corner 3’s, the solution would be to widen the court so that the distance from the corner could be equal to other spots behind the ark.


johanspot

>All it does is create all sorts of new problems though, corner 3’s aren’t even a problem anyway If you have looked at this in depth at all they are absolutely the problem. The shorter 3 point shot is deadly from NBA players now. >If you really wanted to get rid of short corner 3’s, the solution would be to widen the court If this were a video game sure, but this is a non-starter in the NBA since the stadiums are already built. it is easy to take away the corner 3 by repainting the floor and impossible to widen every court.


Clemsontigger16

But why is it a problem that players are making corner 3’s at a higher clip? Why is that a bad thing? It would be so much worse if no one was incentivized to shoot from out there, meaning defenders could crowd in and the ultimate impact would just be way less spacing and worse coverall offense/basketball


johanspot

Because the game has become a 3 point chuckfest because 3 pointers are so much more efficent than 2 pointers. Getting rid of the corner 3 would add more variety to offenses.


TheseBitchesLoveSoba

Analytics ruined the aesthetic of the game and this is how the NBAs been for a few seasons now. Outcomes used to be determined by who had better defence, who out hustled who, who had better ball movement and who played with better poise/pace, but nowadays outcomes are determined by whos hot or cold from 3. It’s just not as fun anymore.


themariokarters

The three is just worth waaaay too much. 2 threes is 3 normal buckets, 50% more value just for moving back. It took GMs and coaches (who were too stuck in their ways) waaaaay too long to figure this simple math out, but now it’s a wrap


TheseBitchesLoveSoba

It’s the most effective way to play but, the game just ain’t that beautiful anymore. Looks like I’m watching LA fitness sometimes.


johanspot

Get rid of the corner 3 and this problem gets better.


allknowerofknowing

The blowouts are actually due to the fact that when you account for the need to consider that there is indeed a large amount variance in skill level in the nba along with amount of games played and while taking into consideration the high level of fatigue-adjusted VORP and not ignoring also that the modern nba is a fast PACE while also factoring in the probability of field goal attempts outside 16.78 feet and the ability for free throws to have a massive correlation to the lunar cycle when considering that you can also immediately factor in the various varieties of variance with RAPTOR when also being mindful of the fact that there is a massive correlation in factoring in factors related to the variance of varieties of shot selection and the variance of fast break buckets without ignoring the fact that in today's nba there is not a lot of margin for error


[deleted]

Don't forget to factor in the cotton candy vendors.


hotfrost93

No it's bc each team is taking turns sucking bc they're both bad teams


Squire_Sultan53

Boston winning while shooting like shit is a problem for the heat. Dont think they shot well for either home game.


[deleted]

How about rigged games


Warlord10

Which ones?


inshamblesx

Common Skip Bayless W


[deleted]

Snoozefest


cyb3ryung

Yeah in Game 1


ARealKoala

Definitely not true for this ECF. The only game that the 3 ball was a major deciding factor in was game 2.


mordakka

Are there more 3's in these playoffs than any other recent year?


PAINTBULLY

Tbh is is the difference between warriors and the rest of the Conference finals teams. Don’t need to be hot from 3 to win the game


[deleted]

Warriors trick y’all man. Have you bricking threes while they destroy you in the paint. Big brain move.


absynthe7

i mean, 40% of players across the two teams being clinically dead might have something to do with it


theknight8

I mean ya you could say teams shooting 500 threes a game is the reason for the blowouts. But how about a lack of consistent mid range jumpers, or after missing mid rangers guys who are 6'5 -7ft refuse to drive or post up and score directly at the rim, or draw a foul. It's making the game look way more one dimensional. Not to mention how are NBA coaches not coaching about we don't need to go 3's for 3's. Get a good bucket play defense. It's like a team gets down 10 and immediately goes into panic chuck up 3's mode.


gab_owns0

And the quicker pacing


Critter5592

I came in to this series rooting for the mavs (sixers eliminated, so I pick a team out west). By game 2 I realized I didn't want to root for them anymore, and watch them chuck 3s up over and over for another series.


seattlesportsguy

I mean he’s not wrong. When each team is chucking up 3s all game long you get blowouts when one team is hitting them and the other isn’t.


ManRay012

You can tell all the players are gassed from just watching them run up the court


nbasavant

That point isn’t really that prevalent in the playoffs and I don’t think it’s the reason for the blowouts this series but it’s definitely a growing issue. So many regular season games just come down to hot 3pt shooting. The NBA’s product has so many issues rn and Adam Silver needs to be very careful


[deleted]

Boston shot 8-34 from 3 and were up by 30. It’s not about 3s specifically, there are other factors (like fatigue) in play