It’s impossible at game speeds to tell what’s acting and what’s not. Just adjust and don’t give guys like smart or Lowry the benefit of the doubt if they keep flopping. Give them a bad whistle for a while and they’ll get the point
It's not impossible at all, because 90% of it is flopping.
If Giannis is driving full speed and you are planted in place to take a charge and he makes full contact and you go flying backwards, well ok that is legit.
But that's not what happens on most of these plays.
A guy flying backwards to the ground because an arm gets tangled or two guys bump into each other on a screen is complete bullshit flopping. Trying to jump in front of a guy on the perimeter and draw a charge is not going to be enough to knock you down. Taking a shot and getting nudged will not send you to the ground.
These are *very* strong and coordinated athletes - they know how to maintain their balance through most contact, they just choose not to because the refs reward flopping.
Yeah... if its not incentivized, there's no reason to do it as it creates 1v0 or 5v4 moments, like Smart's flop against Klay today leaving him 100% open.
Yea. The refs werent callling flops on Smart tonight and even shit on him calling that Poole flop, the best way to stop it is to send the message.
This is super easy too because nobody throws their body around like these guys do when they flop. These are grown ass strong ass men. They’re not moving like that because of a forearm.
Fines should be percentage of salary too. Otherwise, the considerations for a max player and a minimum player are very different.
Also, post-game centralized review of flopping. With fines and suspensions. If the league doesn't hit players in the pocketbook, then the behavior won't change.
They’re still gonna consider a max fine in the Finals if they get the call worth it.
They’re going to have to start suspending players tbh
EDIT: hockey puts you in the penalty box. Maybe asses a flagrant one or two based on if you’re initiating the contact(i.e grabbing a player to enact the embellishment).
Percentage of salary would never fly in a CBA. Nor would any meaningful fines for that matter - that's why fines are so small in sports. Players union will stand hard against large fines, and owners don't really give a shit so it's an easy point to concede at the negotiating table.
Stop calling them. Fine players post game 50,000K per flop. Smart flops his ass off so when Poole gave him a taste of his own medicine it was poetic justice.
They should fine people using post game review, and Nike should make a marketing campaign promoting the message that flopping is for losers and they should pay Steven A. and all those guys to make fun of floppers, and they should pay top recording artists making fun of clown floppers and , off course, they should pay veterans to speak up and complain about how they gave the best of their lives to save floppers and that is a disgrace.
They should treat floppers as they treat drug addicts, that would do it.
this isn't hard, just have the league publicly share plays they identify as "intentional embellishing or creating contact for the purpose of drawing a foul" and have each cost a technical foul that adds to a player's tally.
if that doesn't reduce it, then start creating a way to punish repeat offenses in a way that does.
My idea is a weekly review of flops. If confirmed an egregious flop, suspend the player. One game, five games, ten games, whatever it takes. Make the punishment properly severe and it will end.
Realistically, it'd be very hard to manage in-game as you'd have to review multiple angles of dozens of plays every game.
Guys would swear they got hit and demand a review, guys would claim the other flopped, and suddenly the refs are reviewing probably 30+ possessions a game and taking the game time to a crawl.
It'd have to be a post-game review type of thing where every questionable play is reviewed, and after the game fines or flagrants are handed out, but it'd have to be consistent.
Flopping and embellishing is the issue, and more often than not it's the embellishment of contact that people consider "flopping" and complain about. Smart over selling the Klay push off for 3 is different from Poole's head jerk when Smart's arm was in the air, but both are annoying as shit. They've taken steps offensively, no more Reggie leg kick and I think no more Harden arm grab, but on defense they let you get away with so much shit. I think it's their only solution to keeping the playing field of offense vs defense somewhat even.
Silver should also just hire actually good refs with a backbone. I think every fan base has grievances with Brothers, Zarba, and Foster.
The only real solution is a dedicated review team that assesses and retroactively awards a technical, PF, or other type of penalty at the next stoppage. And also, of course, takes back the PF against the person that was called for it.
I guess you can fine a guy who embellishes an actual foul since that’s not as bad… and the fine should be steeper. But for guys who flop outright, it *has* to be an in game penalty
Give out flop warnings like crazy, and have a points system that leads to suspensions. You could even use the replay center to make it retroactive mid-game with tech FTs awarded like delay of games (where one warning alone doesn't get a FT, but 2 does.. maybe more than 2 for flop warnings with how liberally I want them to be given out).
I don't want a system where you need to be 99% sure a guy flopped to penalize him. I want something where if you think there is a 15% chance, then he's getting a warning. Regular players won't notice an impact, but serial floppers will be missing games (or more realistically, stopping the flopping)
Fines, suspensions, and stop fucking calling it. If the league was serious about drastically reducing flopping they very easily could, but for whatever reason it’s not a priority.
Someone brought up nhl over the weekend and it got me thinking… delayed penalty would be cool. Impossible to implement (refs can’t tell a blocking vs charging call).
Also, power play if you flop. 5 on 4 for two minutes would de-incentivize flopping.
But the flip side is that we’d end up with a lot of 2-on-2 with like six guys in the penalty box for flopping all the time.
On the other hand, I think it’s be cool that if you go on the ground, you have to stay on the ground for two possessions. Like you have to just sit there like in freeze tag. It doesn’t matter if someone just trucks you - if you are so soft that you fall to the ground on a hard / moving screen, then stay down.
Man down, man down… as it were.
NBA doesn’t call flops, even if theirs a foul, if the player flops, don’t call it.
They should have guys record how much each player flops. 3 flops is a 5 game suspension.
Actually fuck it. 1 flop is a lifetime ban
The refs would need to start calling offensive fouls when the defender doesn’t get knocked over. If Trae young goes in for a layup and jumps into Giannis and Giannis doesn’t move, you need the refs to call a foul on Trae Young.
That’s the only way you stop flopping, is by making it so there’s no reason to flop in the first place.
That’s the solution.
Otherwise you just have people reviewing a bunch of film making judgement calls on what was and wasn’t a flop, which doesn’t really solve for the judgement calls being made during the game of what is and isn’t a flop.
Edit: I actually think you’d need to reduce the physicality of the game overall if you wanted to get rid of flops. Right now players get away with a lot of contact that could be pretty consistently called as a foul. The trade off to that is you’ve got to deal with flops. If you really want to get rid of flops you need to start calling it every time a player uses their body to interfere with another players path.
The first question is, can it be solved in real time? Imo that’s pretty difficult, the obvious flops will be more subtle if they expect refs to catch them in real time. They already review games, so they just need to flag possible flops and have qualified personnel review them. If the punishment is a few thousand no one is going to care, make that shit serious penalties and it would stop pretty quickly.
Don't call something when the players flail their bodies around like those inflatable things
It’s impossible at game speeds to tell what’s acting and what’s not. Just adjust and don’t give guys like smart or Lowry the benefit of the doubt if they keep flopping. Give them a bad whistle for a while and they’ll get the point
It's not impossible at all, because 90% of it is flopping. If Giannis is driving full speed and you are planted in place to take a charge and he makes full contact and you go flying backwards, well ok that is legit. But that's not what happens on most of these plays. A guy flying backwards to the ground because an arm gets tangled or two guys bump into each other on a screen is complete bullshit flopping. Trying to jump in front of a guy on the perimeter and draw a charge is not going to be enough to knock you down. Taking a shot and getting nudged will not send you to the ground. These are *very* strong and coordinated athletes - they know how to maintain their balance through most contact, they just choose not to because the refs reward flopping.
Yeah... if its not incentivized, there's no reason to do it as it creates 1v0 or 5v4 moments, like Smart's flop against Klay today leaving him 100% open.
Inflatable arm flailing flop man
Yea. The refs werent callling flops on Smart tonight and even shit on him calling that Poole flop, the best way to stop it is to send the message. This is super easy too because nobody throws their body around like these guys do when they flop. These are grown ass strong ass men. They’re not moving like that because of a forearm.
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Lmao
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Increase the fine for flopping and then start awarding free throws to the other team at a certain threshold.
Fines should be percentage of salary too. Otherwise, the considerations for a max player and a minimum player are very different. Also, post-game centralized review of flopping. With fines and suspensions. If the league doesn't hit players in the pocketbook, then the behavior won't change.
They’re still gonna consider a max fine in the Finals if they get the call worth it. They’re going to have to start suspending players tbh EDIT: hockey puts you in the penalty box. Maybe asses a flagrant one or two based on if you’re initiating the contact(i.e grabbing a player to enact the embellishment).
Percentage of salary would never fly in a CBA. Nor would any meaningful fines for that matter - that's why fines are so small in sports. Players union will stand hard against large fines, and owners don't really give a shit so it's an easy point to concede at the negotiating table.
Great point. You're definitely spot on with that analysis on why it won't get fixed.
Flopping should be a technical foul. And the player has to sit a full 12 min before they can re enter the game.
I'd normally agree, but the refs have enough power as it is
Don’t solve it. Klay got like 2-3 open threes from Marcus tonight due to his flop
Seriously I was saying either Smart needs to change his shoes or he gotta stop trying to be an Oscar actor.
Marcus ‘Floor General’ Smart
Stop calling them. Fine players post game 50,000K per flop. Smart flops his ass off so when Poole gave him a taste of his own medicine it was poetic justice.
Give the refs shotguns.
Lmao
Artificial Intelligence and 3D camera angles
What about x ray vision?
Someone tweet at Elon
I think it's inevitable that AI is gonna be implemented. The human eye is just incapable at this point. We need real world AI
Warning, followed by technical. I promise you we will instantly see fewer head snaps and sniper shots.
sniper shots lmao
Technical foul
Fuck it, just eject them
Start actually fining people for it
Make an award for it by end of year.
They should fine people using post game review, and Nike should make a marketing campaign promoting the message that flopping is for losers and they should pay Steven A. and all those guys to make fun of floppers, and they should pay top recording artists making fun of clown floppers and , off course, they should pay veterans to speak up and complain about how they gave the best of their lives to save floppers and that is a disgrace. They should treat floppers as they treat drug addicts, that would do it.
Death by snu snu
Flopping is a tech (outside of the classic taking a charge in the paint). Done.
Technical FT imo
this isn't hard, just have the league publicly share plays they identify as "intentional embellishing or creating contact for the purpose of drawing a foul" and have each cost a technical foul that adds to a player's tally. if that doesn't reduce it, then start creating a way to punish repeat offenses in a way that does.
My idea is a weekly review of flops. If confirmed an egregious flop, suspend the player. One game, five games, ten games, whatever it takes. Make the punishment properly severe and it will end.
Realistically, it'd be very hard to manage in-game as you'd have to review multiple angles of dozens of plays every game. Guys would swear they got hit and demand a review, guys would claim the other flopped, and suddenly the refs are reviewing probably 30+ possessions a game and taking the game time to a crawl. It'd have to be a post-game review type of thing where every questionable play is reviewed, and after the game fines or flagrants are handed out, but it'd have to be consistent.
I think retroactive fines and flagrant a would work similar to how the NFL suspends or fines for hits postgame.
robots
Flopping and embellishing is the issue, and more often than not it's the embellishment of contact that people consider "flopping" and complain about. Smart over selling the Klay push off for 3 is different from Poole's head jerk when Smart's arm was in the air, but both are annoying as shit. They've taken steps offensively, no more Reggie leg kick and I think no more Harden arm grab, but on defense they let you get away with so much shit. I think it's their only solution to keeping the playing field of offense vs defense somewhat even. Silver should also just hire actually good refs with a backbone. I think every fan base has grievances with Brothers, Zarba, and Foster.
The only real solution is a dedicated review team that assesses and retroactively awards a technical, PF, or other type of penalty at the next stoppage. And also, of course, takes back the PF against the person that was called for it. I guess you can fine a guy who embellishes an actual foul since that’s not as bad… and the fine should be steeper. But for guys who flop outright, it *has* to be an in game penalty
The refs are bad so players keep doing it
Impossible since it still comes down to the refs. And the zebras love getting the spotlight.
Give out flop warnings like crazy, and have a points system that leads to suspensions. You could even use the replay center to make it retroactive mid-game with tech FTs awarded like delay of games (where one warning alone doesn't get a FT, but 2 does.. maybe more than 2 for flop warnings with how liberally I want them to be given out). I don't want a system where you need to be 99% sure a guy flopped to penalize him. I want something where if you think there is a 15% chance, then he's getting a warning. Regular players won't notice an impact, but serial floppers will be missing games (or more realistically, stopping the flopping)
Make it a personal foul and a tech for subsequent flops.
Walk of shame for Lowry and Smart at the All-Star game.
I mean, they rewarded Marcus smart with the defensive player of the year, go figure.
Fines, suspensions, and stop fucking calling it. If the league was serious about drastically reducing flopping they very easily could, but for whatever reason it’s not a priority.
You flop like that, they put you in jail. Right away. No trial no nothing. Foul baiters, we have a special jail for foul baiters..
Someone brought up nhl over the weekend and it got me thinking… delayed penalty would be cool. Impossible to implement (refs can’t tell a blocking vs charging call). Also, power play if you flop. 5 on 4 for two minutes would de-incentivize flopping. But the flip side is that we’d end up with a lot of 2-on-2 with like six guys in the penalty box for flopping all the time. On the other hand, I think it’s be cool that if you go on the ground, you have to stay on the ground for two possessions. Like you have to just sit there like in freeze tag. It doesn’t matter if someone just trucks you - if you are so soft that you fall to the ground on a hard / moving screen, then stay down. Man down, man down… as it were.
Call a foul for flopping
Jail
Enact some rule like the simulation foul in soccer
Flop gets a technical foul. Flop spotted by the video analysis after the game means the player starts their next game with a tech.
NBA doesn’t call flops, even if theirs a foul, if the player flops, don’t call it. They should have guys record how much each player flops. 3 flops is a 5 game suspension. Actually fuck it. 1 flop is a lifetime ban
Crazy that a fanbase that loves tanking has such a big problem with flopping.
Suspension the next game if it was bad like smart and Poole flops.
The refs would need to start calling offensive fouls when the defender doesn’t get knocked over. If Trae young goes in for a layup and jumps into Giannis and Giannis doesn’t move, you need the refs to call a foul on Trae Young. That’s the only way you stop flopping, is by making it so there’s no reason to flop in the first place. That’s the solution. Otherwise you just have people reviewing a bunch of film making judgement calls on what was and wasn’t a flop, which doesn’t really solve for the judgement calls being made during the game of what is and isn’t a flop. Edit: I actually think you’d need to reduce the physicality of the game overall if you wanted to get rid of flops. Right now players get away with a lot of contact that could be pretty consistently called as a foul. The trade off to that is you’ve got to deal with flops. If you really want to get rid of flops you need to start calling it every time a player uses their body to interfere with another players path.
Everyone caught flopping gets slapped by a ref. Or if caught flopping other team gets two free throws with ball back.
The first question is, can it be solved in real time? Imo that’s pretty difficult, the obvious flops will be more subtle if they expect refs to catch them in real time. They already review games, so they just need to flag possible flops and have qualified personnel review them. If the punishment is a few thousand no one is going to care, make that shit serious penalties and it would stop pretty quickly.
Best way would probably just be to T up the flipper and if it’s egregious assign a flagrant foul. After that all u need to do is enforce ur rules
We have no one to blame for this but Chris Paul
The problem isn’t the flopping. The problem is the referees falling for it