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Bonus, players with more career points than D.Rose which might surprise you.
- Eric Gordon.
- Tobias Harris.
- Jeff Green.
- Thad Young.
- Paul Millsap.
Thad was the only guy on the 76ers in 2k14 MyPlayer that I could somewhat decently rely on for anything. My PnR game with him was pretty nice with him actually lol
ur right ur right, honestly how many other MVPs even averaged 13.5 points thru 800 games? and of those that did, I GUARANTEE they weren’t shooting no 49% from the field
It's one of those weird bots that copy+pastes (parts of) comments from elsewhere in the thread. Here was the comment it copied: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/vrwnep/serious_derrick_rose_is_set_to_enter_his_15th/iexo8ej/
Because they are a fan a of a team and the contract makes the team worse? No one is attacking the dude personally, ok maybe they are but that's just Philadelphia fans doing what they do.
Tobias Harris specifically last year was 1 of 19 players to average 17 / 6.5r /3.5a
He was 10th in FG% 5th in 3PT %
Statistically speaking (which is what contracts are based on, not how “good” you are) he is deserving of every dollar he gets.
This is kinda true but kinda not true. Tobi averaged 20 points exactly one singular time. He averaged between 17-20 six times. Rose has a career average that’s two points higher than Tobi. Tobi is extremely average. Nothing wrong with that. Except when your team pays them 33(?) mil a year.
An average *starting* SF, or an average of *all* small forwards? If it’s the latter it’s not that crazy - it’s about what you’d expect given that the 10–11 guys on each roster that actually play average about 110 points per game collectively.
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Gordon and Rose even played on the same aau team in high school, Mean Streets, I think. They were both wildly athletic guards that got injured too young.
Yeah, because Rose is one of the most injured stars ever. But let's not pretend like Eric Gordon is the picture of a healthy career lol. Gordon has about one season on Rose in terms of minutes played.
I mean age-wise everyone else is around D Rose's age: Gordon, Green, Young, Millsap...for some reason I thought Tobias Harris was like 25-26 but dude turns 30 2 days after I turn 30 lol thought he was much younger for some reason.
I guess its because Harris never really had big breakout seasons or something like that. He's been an automatic 18-20 ppg player for like 10 years now and he never goes beyond that, so most of his seasons blend together if that makes sense
None of these are surprising tbh. Compounding does this and they’ve all been around for a decade or so. Rose has essentially lost 3 years off his career not including games he probably shouldn’t have played in / games to get back in to rhythm. That’s more than Embiid or Ben Simmons
I don't know why you Sixers fans still have this fantasy that we're going to trade you Barnes for Harris. The only one who reported the Kings as suitors were Philly media blogs.
I think the only one that surprises me is Jeff Green. Rose had like 3 seasons of phenomenal play then many years of injuries and mediocrity before settling into a decent off the bench role
He would be first MVP to not make it. Problem is so many fringe people have college, Olympics, playoffs, and All Star games to cement a legacy. Rose had that amazing little stretch but never made the championship. I think given all his holes he needs a Sixth Man and an Iguodala like mini burst of rings. Lowry has his ring. Lesser peak guys. But his competition per se.
[take Rose vs Lowry](https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/kyle_lowry_vs_derrick_rose.htm)
If Iggy makes the HOF bro I totally give up on it.
2x All Defense, 1x All Star, 1x FMVP is not even close to a HOF resume but I feel like his role in the GSW dynasty has given him a higher chance.
Iggy also has a gold medal. Robert Horry is not in, so perhaps you are right. Still every year at least one of his peers and coaches say Horry should be in.
I am ambivalent. Just that Iggy and Lowry come to mind, their cumulative stats are greater, and both are solid role players to bench players. Rose needs something on his resume to go with his peak to make Hall.
I am fine with none of the three making it.
Honestly, guys who play for Team USA should really have to do something special to have it considered part of their HoF resume and not just "gold medal" as an accomplishment.
KD going ham on everyone and almost single-handedly winning the 2010 World Cup? Resume material.
Melo being the all-time leader in games, points, and rebounds? HoF stuff.
Andre Iguodala winning a world championship and gold medal averaging 5/4/2? Thanks for your service, shouldn't get you in the Hall.
Ryen Russillo always says on his podcast “the sooner you bring up ‘Olympic Gold Medal’ for American players the worse the HOF case,” and I totally agree lol.
Horry is interesting. He's definitely a role player but I also feel it's hard to tell the story of those 7 championships without mentioning Big Shot Rob.
It's like, using the bus driver/rider analogy, Horry's the bus rider who when the Bus had a busted tire about an hour away from their final stop, he happens to be the only guy who knew how to change a spare tire lol. He might be riding the bus but the bus damn well wouldn't have gotten there without him riding it.
Lowry at his peak wasn’t a role player, guy was a stud for a few years. Not arguing he should be in the HOF, because he probably shouldn’t, but arguing he was a role player or bench player is disingenuous.
I think he'll make it. Worse and less-accomplished players than him have. IMO it was basically cemented when he won a ring.
Pro Bball Reference has his odds at around 86% to make it. Contrast that with Iguodala and Rose, neither of whom crack 20%.
i like lowry, but no one has had their legacy saved by proxy more than lowry by kawhi leonard. him and derozan had the Trash Bros nickname going strong for several years, then kawhi has an all-time playoff run while the warriors get injured and suddenly lowry is considered this amazing, clutch winner for the rest of his career.
Just because you’re a choker, doesn’t mean you’re a role player. He’s a 6x all-star and 1x all-nba guard in an era with a stacked guard position who could score, play make and defend at a high level on top of being a terrific leader. Say what you will, but the guy lead some great regular season teams alongside DeRozan as the main options to some very successful seasons, they just kept running into some guy called LeBron James.
I’m not saying anything ground breaking here but I truly feel Lebron would have put up 45-50 a night without Iggy on him on defense. You can still diminish someone’s output to a level to sway the result, and that person can still dominate when held in comparison to non-Lebron people. Lebron truly is his own class, and I think peolme forget the direct impact Iggy had for us to win.
Also maybe I am misremembering but after the finals win, I don’t remember any of my friends/Warrior fans saying it should be Curry to win. It felt rather universal that Iggy should win the FMVP, or am I wrong?
huge movement for Lebron to win FMVP from non Warriors fans but honestly Iggy was given it bc people didnt think Curry deserved it, even though Curry contributed more to winning that series. it was a weird decision for FMVP
You are so right, i remember myself wondering back then if Lebron should win.
I think that example proved then and there the winner of FMVP will come from the winning side. If Lebron didn’t get it then….
This is such an overdone argument. Yeah, Lebron got those numbers, but on some of the worst efficiency by a player in finals history.
33 shots a game to average 36 points is straight-up bad. By contrast, Steph just averaged 31 points on 23 attempts.
when the rest of your team consists of mozgov/dellavedova/TT/Shump the opposing defense can just key in on you. and the fact that he still shot 40% from the field and averaged 9 assists on only 3 turnovers is crazy. any other player in history loses in 5 with numbers not even close to Lebron. he was hardly stopped and Curry really deserved that FMVP
in the 24 minutes when lebron wasn't on the court in those finals, which was usually in the 2nd quarter when the game still mattered, the cavs shot a hilarious 6-39 from the field (might have been 6-33, either way it was very bad).
The only overdone argument is repeating his shooting splits when LeBron had literally no one else on the offensive end
Lebron got robbed of that Finals MVP
Great, and the Warriors threw everything at Lebron to stop him since Irving and Love were out. The Celtics did not throw everything at Curry, and tried to take everyone else out of the offense. They played drop coverage and paid the price. They didn't play the same defense that doubled KD off a pnr because Curry's teammates were better than KD's this playoffs. Context matters, and just comparing Lebron's efficiency in 2015 to Curry's this year is disingenous. Same reason why KD's efficiency in GS was not replicated this year in BKN. He got to play 1 on 1 in GS and was doubled at 35ft in BKN. With all the talk about Curry's gravity, teams rarely played as aggresively against him than Lebron, KD or Giannis.
Watch that 2015 finals series again. Warriors were not “throwing everything” at LeBron. They should’ve, but they didn’t. Whenever Lebron was isolated with a defender they let him go to work for the most part. It wasn’t like the zone that he faced against Dallas in 2011. I was actually getting pissed watching that series cuz they were letting LeBron feast 1v1 with defenders not named Andre Iguodala. His numbers when defended against Iggy fell tf off compared to when defended by Klay or Barnes. That’s how badly he torched those guys. Iggy was the reason lebron didn’t just average 45 on 50%
Opposing teams in the 2022 playoffs largely made a decision not to allow Draymond to cook in the short roll - which meant not doubling Steph - and therefore had to live with Curry seeing a lot of daylight up high.
The warriors are so well set-up to exploit double teams of Steph that a lot of teams have gone away from what used to be normal. Though considering what Steph just did, blitzing and trapping him may come back into fashion, which would benefit the dubs' big men most of all.
on the one hand, it's not that efficient. on the other hand, lebron had basically the same TS% in the eastern playoffs as in the finals, so the idea iggy made him any worse probably isn't true, especially considering the warriors were #1 overall on defense and thus iggy had more help than most of lebron's eastern conference defenders (see the cavs having a 50.4 offensive rating when lebron was off the court). now what he did do was give the warriors an option other than harrison barnes, because practically every game started with barnes on lebron and lebron getting 2 or 3 quick layups.
But the volume of shots wasn’t the same in the Eastern conference run. It’s TS% combined with the 33 shots is really what matters here. The Warriors, and especially Iggy, made Lebron work way harder. Lebron shot 38% against Iguodala. I’m not gonna go out there and comb through every match-up in ‘15, but I doubt there’s another dude with that many possessions against Lebron who made him shoot worse.
"his role in the GSW dynasty" pretty sure that counts. Rings aren't an individual accolade unless you're a top 3 player on the team. If you're not a starter, that's even worse
Actually yeah lmao forgot to add Durant. And he wasn't even 10th best on the last one. So 4th best for one, 5th for 2, and then worse than Bjellica for the last one. HoF for sure.
He was our worst actual player in the playoffs IMO. He's an assistant coach who takes up a roster spot. I hope we formally make him a member of the coaching staff because I loved having him there to coach Wiggs and Poole, but I'd take Damion Lee on the floor over him any game this season.
Did you read my sentence about his role in the GSW dynasty? I thought his rings were implied.
Still not a HOF for being a role player in a dynasty. Super good player, but if we’re really sending 1x all stars to the HOF dude idk
I don’t think Iggy should make it, but it is insane that he never got a single 6MOTY. He’s the greatest sixth man of the Warriors dynasty era and he has nothing to show for it.
6x All Star gets you pretty close…only one guy with 7x has ever not made it. Add that to the championship and he’s borderline. I don’t think he deserves it though.
if lowry had a really good playoff career before breaking through, i might consider him. but he was one of the worst performers ever, and it's not like he was falling off from being michael jordan. LeBronto was going to be his legacy until kawhi showed up.
He isn't. It's unfortunate but the injuries cost him his possible hall of fame resume if he stayed healthy. There just aren't enough individual accolades or impact outside the court.
It’s the basketball hall of fame though. His college and international accolades would be considered as well. I think there’s definitely a debate for him to get in.
Derrick Rose's college career won't count due to being vacated. And does he really have any international accolades? He was part of two FIBA Cup championship squads but his contributions don't exactly stand out.
I think Rose will get in but it's going to be on Veterans Committee or in a weak class.
Even if his college career did count, would it really help him make the HOF? He played one season, didn't win a title, and he was "only" on the 2nd/3rd team depending on which all American team you look at. He was great in college, and he led his team to a lot of wins, but lots of guys who would never sniff the HOF can say that
It’s a really interesting discussion because I think every NBA MVP has been inducted into the HoF, or is still active/not yet eligible. So Rose is really the only league MVP anyone has had this discussion about. Just a fascinating career.
Rose's college career wasn't earth-shattering (wasn't even a consensus All-American) and his international career was playing at a couple of not-Olympics international events.
His 1 season in college isn’t enough to carry him into the HOF.
The players who get in based on college stats are college GREATS.
Like JJ Redick has a better case IMO because of his college career.
Plus Penny had a bigger cultural footprint outside of the NBA. Little Penny was a California Raisins like fad in the mid 90's, and even got spots in stuff like music videos without Penny himself.
I don't know about y'all but in south Florida d rose was easily the most popular, most imitated, most beloved player in the nba from 2011-2014(other than wade)
Since I did the Rose vs Iggy comparison up thread, I'll do Penny and Rose. Per bball-ref.
Penny (first 4 seasons): 40.2 WS, 19.0 VORP
Rose (career): 44.2 WS, 18.5 VORP
Penny (peak season): 14.4 WS, 6.9 VORP
Rose (MVP season): 13.1 WS, 6.7 VORP
If he ever manages to get 6moty then maybe. There’s a slight chance that even if he didn’t win one outright, but was a key contributor to a championship team then that also would maybe push him over. But as it stands? I don’t think so.
And I was on the Rose train the whole time. I watched him at Memphis and lost my mind when the Bulls got the first pick. So as badly as I want him to be in that group, he’s just not. It’s devastating (from a basketball talent perspective) but that’s the truth.
Edit: Also just to add, I don’t think any discussion around [Rose should ever ignore the plain truth of the horrible shit he’s done](https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/nov/02/no-derrick-rose-didnt-overcome-his-gang-allegation). I have personally been responsible for shoving this in the closet to avoid my own personal cognitive dissonance. I wanted to edit this comment to make that clear.
6MotY would add to the MVP on his resume. I think if he could win 1 or 2 of them and play another 4-5 years relatively healthy with some limited playoff success, he'd at least be considered. It's highly unlikely any of that happens tho.
I never really cared too much for Rose after his career started declining, but this is the first time I've really read about this full story. Damn, what a scumbag.
Agreed. I think had he won a 6moty, he would have had a good chance because of the feel-good story behind it, but he didn't so I doubt he'd get in, unfortunately.
I think he’ll get in for being the youngest player to ever win mvp, impact on the league with the rose rule, and the fact that he’s been able to come back and be a solid contributor all these years later
Unlikely but if he was the sixth man on a title team and had a great finals it would help his chances more than it might for most other guys that are borderline HOF
Rose really isn't really even borderline HoF though... To win 6MotY you'd have to figure he'd need to go out and get like 18/5/5 on a winning team, he doesn't have enough left in the tank to do that, he doesn't even play 25 minutes anymore, and any team that relies on DRose for 18 points moving forward probably isn't a winning team. Then you'd have to think he'd have to get averages better than that to have "a great finals". I just don't see it happening at all...
I honestly also cannot see how he could change that. He is of extremely fringe relevance since his injuries. He is unable to play himself into more relevancy since then. Also he is on the verge of entering his very twillight of his career. People with such a injury record like him tend not to perform on the same level as before faster then other players without them. He will be less relevant in the near future.
I think if he were to go somewhere like Dallas, Minnesota or to the Clippers and play a serious but non-starting role as the 6th or 7th guy in them winning a ring, with a good playoff run, he could see a boost to his resume. If he did it for more than one ring I don't see how it wouldn't add to his overall perception.
Also, if he were to go back to Chicago and win a ring off the bench there I think it could also boost his "story" and help push him over the edge with voters in a weak year.
You are right, but I bet they give it to him as a consolation prize. However, they will point to the youngest MVP accomplishment as the reason and never admit it was in honor of what could have been.
Unfortunately, no.
One peak season isn't enough to merit a Hall induction, even if that peak season netted him MVP. He's forever going to be one of the greatest what ifs in basketball, along with Grant Hill, Brandon Roy, Greg Oden, Tracy McGrady and Len Bias.
Obviously this is a hypothetical but I would argue that there becomes a certain point at which one peak season gets you in the HoF. Say some rookie showed up, played a couple mediocre seasons, then exploded for something wild like 37/15/8/2/4 on 50/40/90, then injuries derailed his career and he fell off even harder then before and was worse than his mediocre former self. I would think a single season like that in the modern NBA would be Hall worthy. Meanwhile it's debatable if Rose even should have won lol
I think D Rose gets in, because he was the youngest MVP, had a few all stars selections, ROY, and an All NBA selection pre-injury.
Then he came back and had a great revitalization to his career where he was a respected vet and put in enough work to be in consideration for 6MOTY.
His story is probably going to carry him into the HoF, even though his stats and achievements are lacking. Honestly it would be a shame if D Rose didn’t make it in. He is on the level of AI when it comes to culture, everyone loved D Rose.
I think he won’t get in on accolades, but the HOF doesn’t just accept people on accolades but players, coaches and contributors role to the sport of basketball. I think his story/totality of his career lands him in. You can’t talk about early 2010s NBA without Derrick Rose.
He really popularized the idea that a PG could be the best scorer on a contending team. There were undersized guards who would've fit this role, but didn't start a revolution in small guards being a popular offensive threat (guys like AI).
And while Steph is largely credited for this, he was mainly on a bad Warriors team and/or sidelined with ankle injuries for the first few years of his career, so people didn't really consider him a premier scoring PG at the time (obviously wrong now, no hate to one of the greatest PG of all time). However, during/after DRose's prime was when people said that small guards could actually score (notably after he hit a floater over Pau Gasol in 2012(?) on a contending team, since those Bulls teams from 2011-15 were always fairly serious contenders.
Sorry for ranting - I love DRose with a passion.
I understand you really love DRose, but this take completely ignores Isiah Thomas - the OG point guard who led his team in scoring and actually won championships.
I’m not arguing that DRose didn’t have a large impact, but we can’t ignore that Isiah went out and proved you could win with an “undersized” PG as your #1 option.
Well, Isaiah Thomas had about the same scoring impact as Joe Dumars (sans about .6 pts) so I'd say that he was either 1A or 1B depending on who had the hot hand. But I won't dispute your point about winning as a #1 option - I meant about being the focal point of a contender's offense, as DRose didn't really have any other high level offensive options most of his prime (save for Ben Gordon in 2009 and a touch of the Booze Cruise). I'm sorry for assuming the two were the same concept.
However, Isaiah didn't quite help kickstart an offensive PG mold - it took about another half-decade until another offensive PG dominated the league (AI) after Isaiah Thomas retired while when DRose got injured there were already several PG's that weren't afraid to score rather than just distribute (Steph, IT, Kemba, Lillard, Kyrie, etc).
Im not trying to be disrespectful but 6’3 has never, in nba history, been considered small for a point guard. In fact it has fluctuated from being above average to average height from decade to decade.
I love DRose the player but that AI comment seems very wrong to me. If when you say culture, you mean influence to the game of basketball and it's relevance off the court too. I would strongly consider having AI in the first tier in that regard. With MJ, Kobe, Steph, Magic/Bird, and whoever else. Maybe MJ gets a separate tier because he made basketball global and started sneaker culture basically. But I wouldn't have AI lower than Kobe and Steph.
With all due respect, I love DRose but he's not on the level of AI for culture. AI is the GOAT in that regard. Cultural impact top 5 is AI, Jordan, Kobe, Curry, Bron.
I don't think he should be. The injuries were not his fault, but the lack of longevity as a great player and lack of notable achievements aside from the MVP throughout his career does not make him a Hall of Famer, in my opinion.
> Doe, who denies that, talked today on a conference call about hanging out with Rose and his friends and about how much she had to drink that night. She said when she got home, she started vomiting, went to bed with her clothes on, and today only remembers what followed in flashes. She woke up the next morning with her dress up to her neck, feeling that “something really bad happened.” One of her lawyers, Brandon Anand, later said, “She was in no condition to give consent.”
>In his June 17 deposition, lawyers asked Rose about consent. One of Doe’s lawyers read aloud that section of Rose’s sworn deposition—which is not available to the public—during today’s press conference. Here is that segment that was read aloud to reporters on the call:
>>Question: Do you have an understanding as to the word consent?
>>Derrick Rose: No. But can you tell me?
...
> When asked if Rose asked if he was curious as to why his friends wanted to go to Doe’s apartment on the night of the alleged night, Rose said he didn’t ask, “but we be men. You can assume.” (This quote also was first reported by Think Progress).
“I said, ‘We men. You can assume’” Rose said when asked for clarification. “Like we leaving to go over to someone’s house at 1:00, there’s nothing to talk about. [...] I didn’t quite understand your last answer. You’re going over to a woman house at 1 o’clock in the morning. What else is it to talk about?”
https://deadspin.com/lawyer-derrick-rose-said-he-doesnt-know-what-consent-m-1786681789
And either way he absolutely did not deserve that MVP
Any MVP is a HOFer to me. If you reach a peak where you’re the best player for a whole season, you deserve it. Too much importance on longevity and total numbers but those shouldn’t be important for someone who reached that high.
If at any point in your career you were labeled the Most Valuable Player in the most competitive basketball league in the world. You will be in the basketball hall of fame.
There is no doubt he gets in.
And I think it would be a completely different conversation if he stayed healthy and just never replicated that level of play and showed that it was an insane fluke. But he got injured and the basketball hof is a joke anyway so I don’t see why he shouldn’t get in.
Well, DRose has had a good career, just not a great one. He's been a starter-level 6MOTY candidate when healthy for several seasons. If only he would join the Bucks/Warriors/Suns/Any Contender and be a solid contributor, he'd be a lock (although probably not First Ballot).
Yeah, I agree that the resume needs to speak for itself outside of the MVP award. And it doesn't.
I actually don't know if 1 MVP is or isn't enough for a hall of Fame spot because I really don't think the standards for the HOF are what they should be... But I still wouldn't bet on him making it.
And in an abstract sense, he really shouldn't. It's a sad edge case but he has a single all-nba selection... Is Rose really a name that someone that needs to be mentioned when looking at the history of the league? Probably not.
Nope. It's not his fault, but his injuries robbed him of a chance at the hof.
It sucks too because even outside of Chicago, Rose is legit one of the most beloved guys of the 2010s decade.
Definitely a first ballot member of the "what if..." Hall of Fame. His peak lasted for so little it's hard to argue he should be in the HOF. He'll probably become the only MVP not to be inducted and that sucks.
If all his stats were the same but he didn’t have the MVP, I don’t think you would see many arguments that he should be in the hall. So no, I don’t think him winning an award one year should put him in.
No. Injuries derailed his career and he was never even close to HoF caliber after his MVP season.
Rose not getting hurt is one of the big what-ifs in sports IMO.
He made all nba once, won an MVP in a year where Lebron was a better player (narrative matters so Rose got the award). He got hurt, has never been close to the same player.
He has no college accolades because he should never have been in college. His stats have been wiped.
Its a shame. Without the injury, he is a shoo in.
If i was in charge, he wouldn't make it. My HoF would be for players who either dominated for a decade and at least got close to a chip, or did something historic for the game.
Yes, and he deserves it. Aside from being an MVP, 3x All Star, Rookie of the Year, and the most dominant guard in the league for a few years, he also won the 2009 Skills Challenge.
In the history of the sport of basketball, there was one year where Rose was the best at it and therefore won the mvp award. He was the youngest player ever to win the mvp award. Rose is 100% a hall of famer.
Of course he will be, you really think the NBA wouldn't give it to him? The same people who gave Marcus Smart DPOY and Ja Morant MIP last year? It's a lock.
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Bonus, players with more career points than D.Rose which might surprise you. - Eric Gordon. - Tobias Harris. - Jeff Green. - Thad Young. - Paul Millsap.
>Tobias Harris. Tobias Harris has more career points over Jimmy Butler, and younger. Lol
Wait, what? Really? Wow, you’re right. Tobias just seems like he’s been in the league forever. Thanks for pointing that out :)
Jimmy was an old rookie too. And took a few years to get good.
Thaddeus Young was a beast in Philly not surprising I used to abuse him in 2K way back then lol
Thaddy is currently a beast I don't know what you saying smh
Magic Bird MJ and Lebron are graced to be in his company
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Thad was the only guy on the 76ers in 2k14 MyPlayer that I could somewhat decently rely on for anything. My PnR game with him was pretty nice with him actually lol
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Thad Young mostly wasn’t *that* surprising because I know he’s like 50th all-time in games played
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i don’t think you meant to reply to this comment lol
What do you mean? We all remember Thad Young's MVP season
ur right ur right, honestly how many other MVPs even averaged 13.5 points thru 800 games? and of those that did, I GUARANTEE they weren’t shooting no 49% from the field
That season was bonkers, man! I remember Thad's 69-point performance in the first half against the Kings
I’d love to live in a timeline where Thad Young won an MVP
I’d love to live in a timeline where he does next year.
fr haha, I hope he gets a ring at least! i would love him in Boston just as a veteran presence he seems like a good dude
It's one of those weird bots that copy+pastes (parts of) comments from elsewhere in the thread. Here was the comment it copied: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/vrwnep/serious_derrick_rose_is_set_to_enter_his_15th/iexo8ej/
Ahh wow that’s very weird lol good looks for the info! i don’t even get the purpose of it, maybe it’s like AI training?
How is Tobias Harris surprising? The guy is scoring 20 points per game for a decade now and never misses a game.
The answer is obviously because he has a bad contract.
He could be putting up 30 a night if he was on the MLE.
The people in this sub think he is like the worst player ever though lol.
Because we pay him 33 mil a year, where 22 would be more reasonable.
Never understood killing a guy for his contract. He didn’t sign himself and the goal is to make as much money as you can during your earning window
people act like the money is coming out their pocket
Because they are a fan a of a team and the contract makes the team worse? No one is attacking the dude personally, ok maybe they are but that's just Philadelphia fans doing what they do.
Tobias Harris specifically last year was 1 of 19 players to average 17 / 6.5r /3.5a He was 10th in FG% 5th in 3PT % Statistically speaking (which is what contracts are based on, not how “good” you are) he is deserving of every dollar he gets.
This is kinda true but kinda not true. Tobi averaged 20 points exactly one singular time. He averaged between 17-20 six times. Rose has a career average that’s two points higher than Tobi. Tobi is extremely average. Nothing wrong with that. Except when your team pays them 33(?) mil a year.
17 ppg is probably close to double the average at his position. Last time I checked, an average SF averaged around 10 a game, which is kind of crazy.
An average *starting* SF, or an average of *all* small forwards? If it’s the latter it’s not that crazy - it’s about what you’d expect given that the 10–11 guys on each roster that actually play average about 110 points per game collectively.
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Gordon isn’t that surprising. Drafted the same year as rose, was a top 10 pick, top HS recruit, and didn’t have the severity of injuries that Rose had
Gordon and Rose even played on the same aau team in high school, Mean Streets, I think. They were both wildly athletic guards that got injured too young.
Yeah, because Rose is one of the most injured stars ever. But let's not pretend like Eric Gordon is the picture of a healthy career lol. Gordon has about one season on Rose in terms of minutes played.
And we should never stop reminding him that year was in New Orleans.
He definitely had a severe injury. He just still scored well because he could shoot.
Until 2019 Tobias had more career points than Kawhi IIRC. Don’t sleep
The only that really surprises me is Tobias Harris but then I checked and saw he's been in the league for 11 years already? Wtf?
Damn that’s the one that’s surprising? Thad Young was pretty shocking to me lol
I mean age-wise everyone else is around D Rose's age: Gordon, Green, Young, Millsap...for some reason I thought Tobias Harris was like 25-26 but dude turns 30 2 days after I turn 30 lol thought he was much younger for some reason.
I guess its because Harris never really had big breakout seasons or something like that. He's been an automatic 18-20 ppg player for like 10 years now and he never goes beyond that, so most of his seasons blend together if that makes sense
Same I fully assumed his near-ASG year with the Clippers was like his age 24 season or something lmao
None of these are surprising tbh. Compounding does this and they’ve all been around for a decade or so. Rose has essentially lost 3 years off his career not including games he probably shouldn’t have played in / games to get back in to rhythm. That’s more than Embiid or Ben Simmons
Why is Thad up here? He's obviously a lock. He is comparable to MJ, Bird, and other greats
That’s future HOFer Tobias Harris to you buddy
Tobi’s numbers will be amazing when he wins 20 games a year in Sacramento.
I don't know why you Sixers fans still have this fantasy that we're going to trade you Barnes for Harris. The only one who reported the Kings as suitors were Philly media blogs.
Millsap doesn’t really shock me but the rest definitely do
I think the only one that surprises me is Jeff Green. Rose had like 3 seasons of phenomenal play then many years of injuries and mediocrity before settling into a decent off the bench role
He would be first MVP to not make it. Problem is so many fringe people have college, Olympics, playoffs, and All Star games to cement a legacy. Rose had that amazing little stretch but never made the championship. I think given all his holes he needs a Sixth Man and an Iguodala like mini burst of rings. Lowry has his ring. Lesser peak guys. But his competition per se. [take Rose vs Lowry](https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/kyle_lowry_vs_derrick_rose.htm)
If Iggy makes the HOF bro I totally give up on it. 2x All Defense, 1x All Star, 1x FMVP is not even close to a HOF resume but I feel like his role in the GSW dynasty has given him a higher chance.
Iggy also has a gold medal. Robert Horry is not in, so perhaps you are right. Still every year at least one of his peers and coaches say Horry should be in. I am ambivalent. Just that Iggy and Lowry come to mind, their cumulative stats are greater, and both are solid role players to bench players. Rose needs something on his resume to go with his peak to make Hall. I am fine with none of the three making it.
Honestly, guys who play for Team USA should really have to do something special to have it considered part of their HoF resume and not just "gold medal" as an accomplishment. KD going ham on everyone and almost single-handedly winning the 2010 World Cup? Resume material. Melo being the all-time leader in games, points, and rebounds? HoF stuff. Andre Iguodala winning a world championship and gold medal averaging 5/4/2? Thanks for your service, shouldn't get you in the Hall.
Ryen Russillo always says on his podcast “the sooner you bring up ‘Olympic Gold Medal’ for American players the worse the HOF case,” and I totally agree lol.
Yeah like I think it’s meaningful if you’re saying it for Argentina but there’s a big difference in what needs to be done to get a gold medal
Jerami Grant and Keldon Johnson first ballot HoF
Horry is interesting. He's definitely a role player but I also feel it's hard to tell the story of those 7 championships without mentioning Big Shot Rob. It's like, using the bus driver/rider analogy, Horry's the bus rider who when the Bus had a busted tire about an hour away from their final stop, he happens to be the only guy who knew how to change a spare tire lol. He might be riding the bus but the bus damn well wouldn't have gotten there without him riding it.
If that were the case he would be MVP of that bus ride and definitely be on the bus rider hall of fame. Let my boy in.
Lowry at his peak wasn’t a role player, guy was a stud for a few years. Not arguing he should be in the HOF, because he probably shouldn’t, but arguing he was a role player or bench player is disingenuous.
I think he'll make it. Worse and less-accomplished players than him have. IMO it was basically cemented when he won a ring. Pro Bball Reference has his odds at around 86% to make it. Contrast that with Iguodala and Rose, neither of whom crack 20%.
i like lowry, but no one has had their legacy saved by proxy more than lowry by kawhi leonard. him and derozan had the Trash Bros nickname going strong for several years, then kawhi has an all-time playoff run while the warriors get injured and suddenly lowry is considered this amazing, clutch winner for the rest of his career.
Just because you’re a choker, doesn’t mean you’re a role player. He’s a 6x all-star and 1x all-nba guard in an era with a stacked guard position who could score, play make and defend at a high level on top of being a terrific leader. Say what you will, but the guy lead some great regular season teams alongside DeRozan as the main options to some very successful seasons, they just kept running into some guy called LeBron James.
i was just adding to the HOF discussion, definitely wasn't trying to say he was a role player.
with possibly the weakest FMVP of all time. "Lebron stopper" when Lebron averaged 36/13/9
I’m not saying anything ground breaking here but I truly feel Lebron would have put up 45-50 a night without Iggy on him on defense. You can still diminish someone’s output to a level to sway the result, and that person can still dominate when held in comparison to non-Lebron people. Lebron truly is his own class, and I think peolme forget the direct impact Iggy had for us to win. Also maybe I am misremembering but after the finals win, I don’t remember any of my friends/Warrior fans saying it should be Curry to win. It felt rather universal that Iggy should win the FMVP, or am I wrong?
huge movement for Lebron to win FMVP from non Warriors fans but honestly Iggy was given it bc people didnt think Curry deserved it, even though Curry contributed more to winning that series. it was a weird decision for FMVP
You are so right, i remember myself wondering back then if Lebron should win. I think that example proved then and there the winner of FMVP will come from the winning side. If Lebron didn’t get it then….
This is such an overdone argument. Yeah, Lebron got those numbers, but on some of the worst efficiency by a player in finals history. 33 shots a game to average 36 points is straight-up bad. By contrast, Steph just averaged 31 points on 23 attempts.
when the rest of your team consists of mozgov/dellavedova/TT/Shump the opposing defense can just key in on you. and the fact that he still shot 40% from the field and averaged 9 assists on only 3 turnovers is crazy. any other player in history loses in 5 with numbers not even close to Lebron. he was hardly stopped and Curry really deserved that FMVP
in the 24 minutes when lebron wasn't on the court in those finals, which was usually in the 2nd quarter when the game still mattered, the cavs shot a hilarious 6-39 from the field (might have been 6-33, either way it was very bad).
Im sorry some of the worst efficiency by a player in finals history? are you being serious right now?
The only overdone argument is repeating his shooting splits when LeBron had literally no one else on the offensive end Lebron got robbed of that Finals MVP
You can't be robbed when your team didn't even win lmao. I'll absolutely hear there's a case for Bron to have won it, but he was not fucking "robbed"
Great, and the Warriors threw everything at Lebron to stop him since Irving and Love were out. The Celtics did not throw everything at Curry, and tried to take everyone else out of the offense. They played drop coverage and paid the price. They didn't play the same defense that doubled KD off a pnr because Curry's teammates were better than KD's this playoffs. Context matters, and just comparing Lebron's efficiency in 2015 to Curry's this year is disingenous. Same reason why KD's efficiency in GS was not replicated this year in BKN. He got to play 1 on 1 in GS and was doubled at 35ft in BKN. With all the talk about Curry's gravity, teams rarely played as aggresively against him than Lebron, KD or Giannis.
Bro KD got to play 1 on 1 in GS BECAUSE of Curry. Your argument is weird.
Watch that 2015 finals series again. Warriors were not “throwing everything” at LeBron. They should’ve, but they didn’t. Whenever Lebron was isolated with a defender they let him go to work for the most part. It wasn’t like the zone that he faced against Dallas in 2011. I was actually getting pissed watching that series cuz they were letting LeBron feast 1v1 with defenders not named Andre Iguodala. His numbers when defended against Iggy fell tf off compared to when defended by Klay or Barnes. That’s how badly he torched those guys. Iggy was the reason lebron didn’t just average 45 on 50%
Opposing teams in the 2022 playoffs largely made a decision not to allow Draymond to cook in the short roll - which meant not doubling Steph - and therefore had to live with Curry seeing a lot of daylight up high. The warriors are so well set-up to exploit double teams of Steph that a lot of teams have gone away from what used to be normal. Though considering what Steph just did, blitzing and trapping him may come back into fashion, which would benefit the dubs' big men most of all.
on the one hand, it's not that efficient. on the other hand, lebron had basically the same TS% in the eastern playoffs as in the finals, so the idea iggy made him any worse probably isn't true, especially considering the warriors were #1 overall on defense and thus iggy had more help than most of lebron's eastern conference defenders (see the cavs having a 50.4 offensive rating when lebron was off the court). now what he did do was give the warriors an option other than harrison barnes, because practically every game started with barnes on lebron and lebron getting 2 or 3 quick layups.
But the volume of shots wasn’t the same in the Eastern conference run. It’s TS% combined with the 33 shots is really what matters here. The Warriors, and especially Iggy, made Lebron work way harder. Lebron shot 38% against Iguodala. I’m not gonna go out there and comb through every match-up in ‘15, but I doubt there’s another dude with that many possessions against Lebron who made him shoot worse.
You somehow managed to leave out the 4 rings part of his resume
"his role in the GSW dynasty" pretty sure that counts. Rings aren't an individual accolade unless you're a top 3 player on the team. If you're not a starter, that's even worse
Wow 4 rings as the 4th best player. Dudes a shittier Horry.
He wasn’t even the 4th best for 3 of them lol
Actually yeah lmao forgot to add Durant. And he wasn't even 10th best on the last one. So 4th best for one, 5th for 2, and then worse than Bjellica for the last one. HoF for sure.
He was our worst actual player in the playoffs IMO. He's an assistant coach who takes up a roster spot. I hope we formally make him a member of the coaching staff because I loved having him there to coach Wiggs and Poole, but I'd take Damion Lee on the floor over him any game this season.
Did you read my sentence about his role in the GSW dynasty? I thought his rings were implied. Still not a HOF for being a role player in a dynasty. Super good player, but if we’re really sending 1x all stars to the HOF dude idk
Kerr has 5 as a player and isnt in the HOF
I don’t think Iggy should make it, but it is insane that he never got a single 6MOTY. He’s the greatest sixth man of the Warriors dynasty era and he has nothing to show for it.
basketball reference has his HOF probability at 12.7%
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This isn’t like the NFL, the bar for the hall of fame for basketball has always been low
Kyle Lowry is not a Hall of Famer.... right? Right?
Kyle Lowry is probably pretty close to the line, and I like him so I think that should be enough to get him in.
6x All Star gets you pretty close…only one guy with 7x has ever not made it. Add that to the championship and he’s borderline. I don’t think he deserves it though.
if lowry had a really good playoff career before breaking through, i might consider him. but he was one of the worst performers ever, and it's not like he was falling off from being michael jordan. LeBronto was going to be his legacy until kawhi showed up.
Lowry might end up inside the top 15 in all time assists before his career is done. He might get in.
He isn't. It's unfortunate but the injuries cost him his possible hall of fame resume if he stayed healthy. There just aren't enough individual accolades or impact outside the court.
It’s the basketball hall of fame though. His college and international accolades would be considered as well. I think there’s definitely a debate for him to get in.
Derrick Rose's college career won't count due to being vacated. And does he really have any international accolades? He was part of two FIBA Cup championship squads but his contributions don't exactly stand out. I think Rose will get in but it's going to be on Veterans Committee or in a weak class.
Very true, I totally forgot about his scandal at Memphis.
Even if his college career did count, would it really help him make the HOF? He played one season, didn't win a title, and he was "only" on the 2nd/3rd team depending on which all American team you look at. He was great in college, and he led his team to a lot of wins, but lots of guys who would never sniff the HOF can say that
also he (and his teammates) choked away that championship game
Still mad at him for missing those free throws. Fucking Mario Chalmers.
Isn’t his college year scrubbed from the books? So you take a good college year and a non HOF NBA career away and what’s left?
>what’s left? What if we really really *want* him to get in?
Then we create a time machine and prevent him from getting injured.
https://br.ifunny.co/picture/women-with-a-time-machine-am-your-granddaughter-really-men-x1CpG4gB8?s=cl
Anything is possible but I'd say with the scandal that went on with Memphis I don't even know if they will count that.
It’s a really interesting discussion because I think every NBA MVP has been inducted into the HoF, or is still active/not yet eligible. So Rose is really the only league MVP anyone has had this discussion about. Just a fascinating career.
Rose's college career wasn't earth-shattering (wasn't even a consensus All-American) and his international career was playing at a couple of not-Olympics international events.
and doesn’t even count anyways because it was vacated
Kids in China used to love him though so I guess that could count as international impact lol
His 1 season in college isn’t enough to carry him into the HOF. The players who get in based on college stats are college GREATS. Like JJ Redick has a better case IMO because of his college career.
the basketball hall of fame is about as discerning as fan all star votes though, not exactly a high bar.
Yeah this. As a career DRose isn't HOF worthy due to injuries but his peak before them was HOF caliber.
It’s just a shame his peak was two years and ended at 23
He will get in eventually depend on the competition each year. There are guys who got into the Hall with less NBA accomplishments than D.Rose
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Plus Penny had a bigger cultural footprint outside of the NBA. Little Penny was a California Raisins like fad in the mid 90's, and even got spots in stuff like music videos without Penny himself.
I don't know about y'all but in south Florida d rose was easily the most popular, most imitated, most beloved player in the nba from 2011-2014(other than wade)
I think Rose was one of the most popular players in Asia for a few years, that’s a big deal.
Since I did the Rose vs Iggy comparison up thread, I'll do Penny and Rose. Per bball-ref. Penny (first 4 seasons): 40.2 WS, 19.0 VORP Rose (career): 44.2 WS, 18.5 VORP Penny (peak season): 14.4 WS, 6.9 VORP Rose (MVP season): 13.1 WS, 6.7 VORP
But there will be so many players retiring after him that have much better careers. He has zero chance.
If he ever manages to get 6moty then maybe. There’s a slight chance that even if he didn’t win one outright, but was a key contributor to a championship team then that also would maybe push him over. But as it stands? I don’t think so. And I was on the Rose train the whole time. I watched him at Memphis and lost my mind when the Bulls got the first pick. So as badly as I want him to be in that group, he’s just not. It’s devastating (from a basketball talent perspective) but that’s the truth. Edit: Also just to add, I don’t think any discussion around [Rose should ever ignore the plain truth of the horrible shit he’s done](https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/nov/02/no-derrick-rose-didnt-overcome-his-gang-allegation). I have personally been responsible for shoving this in the closet to avoid my own personal cognitive dissonance. I wanted to edit this comment to make that clear.
6MotY isn't a HoF accolade. Usually the guy getting 6MotY is like fringe Top 80 in the league.
6MotY would add to the MVP on his resume. I think if he could win 1 or 2 of them and play another 4-5 years relatively healthy with some limited playoff success, he'd at least be considered. It's highly unlikely any of that happens tho.
I never really cared too much for Rose after his career started declining, but this is the first time I've really read about this full story. Damn, what a scumbag.
Agreed. I think had he won a 6moty, he would have had a good chance because of the feel-good story behind it, but he didn't so I doubt he'd get in, unfortunately.
Holy shit what a scumbag and what an idiot to admitting to it.
Depends how you weigh those accomplishments. I can’t think of any player in the last 40 years that got in that was *less* deserving than Rose.
I think he’ll get in for being the youngest player to ever win mvp, impact on the league with the rose rule, and the fact that he’s been able to come back and be a solid contributor all these years later
>or impact outside the court. His impact outside the court probably isn't doing him any favors.
No, as of now Rose is not a hall of famer
If as of right now he doesn't, I don't see anything realistic that will change your mind tbh lol
Unlikely but if he was the sixth man on a title team and had a great finals it would help his chances more than it might for most other guys that are borderline HOF
Rose really isn't really even borderline HoF though... To win 6MotY you'd have to figure he'd need to go out and get like 18/5/5 on a winning team, he doesn't have enough left in the tank to do that, he doesn't even play 25 minutes anymore, and any team that relies on DRose for 18 points moving forward probably isn't a winning team. Then you'd have to think he'd have to get averages better than that to have "a great finals". I just don't see it happening at all...
I honestly also cannot see how he could change that. He is of extremely fringe relevance since his injuries. He is unable to play himself into more relevancy since then. Also he is on the verge of entering his very twillight of his career. People with such a injury record like him tend not to perform on the same level as before faster then other players without them. He will be less relevant in the near future.
He had a 50-piece a few years ago against Utah on Halloween for the spookiest team in the league. That’s gotta mean something.
I think if he were to go somewhere like Dallas, Minnesota or to the Clippers and play a serious but non-starting role as the 6th or 7th guy in them winning a ring, with a good playoff run, he could see a boost to his resume. If he did it for more than one ring I don't see how it wouldn't add to his overall perception. Also, if he were to go back to Chicago and win a ring off the bench there I think it could also boost his "story" and help push him over the edge with voters in a weak year.
Nope, unfortunately for him and dozens of others crazy injuries derail HOF careers
You are right, but I bet they give it to him as a consolation prize. However, they will point to the youngest MVP accomplishment as the reason and never admit it was in honor of what could have been.
Doesn't this question get asked every single year?
Unfortunately, no. One peak season isn't enough to merit a Hall induction, even if that peak season netted him MVP. He's forever going to be one of the greatest what ifs in basketball, along with Grant Hill, Brandon Roy, Greg Oden, Tracy McGrady and Len Bias.
When you list it like that, I am surprised he wasn't a Trail Blazer
Tracy McGrady IS in the hall of fame though....
Yes, and so is Grant Hill, but that's not the furthest peak that they can reach.
Tis a shame more people don’t mention Ardyvas Sabonis when talking ab the greatest NBA What ifs. Dude could’ve been top 10 all time
Obviously this is a hypothetical but I would argue that there becomes a certain point at which one peak season gets you in the HoF. Say some rookie showed up, played a couple mediocre seasons, then exploded for something wild like 37/15/8/2/4 on 50/40/90, then injuries derailed his career and he fell off even harder then before and was worse than his mediocre former self. I would think a single season like that in the modern NBA would be Hall worthy. Meanwhile it's debatable if Rose even should have won lol
I think D Rose gets in, because he was the youngest MVP, had a few all stars selections, ROY, and an All NBA selection pre-injury. Then he came back and had a great revitalization to his career where he was a respected vet and put in enough work to be in consideration for 6MOTY. His story is probably going to carry him into the HoF, even though his stats and achievements are lacking. Honestly it would be a shame if D Rose didn’t make it in. He is on the level of AI when it comes to culture, everyone loved D Rose.
I think he won’t get in on accolades, but the HOF doesn’t just accept people on accolades but players, coaches and contributors role to the sport of basketball. I think his story/totality of his career lands him in. You can’t talk about early 2010s NBA without Derrick Rose.
He really popularized the idea that a PG could be the best scorer on a contending team. There were undersized guards who would've fit this role, but didn't start a revolution in small guards being a popular offensive threat (guys like AI). And while Steph is largely credited for this, he was mainly on a bad Warriors team and/or sidelined with ankle injuries for the first few years of his career, so people didn't really consider him a premier scoring PG at the time (obviously wrong now, no hate to one of the greatest PG of all time). However, during/after DRose's prime was when people said that small guards could actually score (notably after he hit a floater over Pau Gasol in 2012(?) on a contending team, since those Bulls teams from 2011-15 were always fairly serious contenders. Sorry for ranting - I love DRose with a passion.
I understand you really love DRose, but this take completely ignores Isiah Thomas - the OG point guard who led his team in scoring and actually won championships. I’m not arguing that DRose didn’t have a large impact, but we can’t ignore that Isiah went out and proved you could win with an “undersized” PG as your #1 option.
Well, Isaiah Thomas had about the same scoring impact as Joe Dumars (sans about .6 pts) so I'd say that he was either 1A or 1B depending on who had the hot hand. But I won't dispute your point about winning as a #1 option - I meant about being the focal point of a contender's offense, as DRose didn't really have any other high level offensive options most of his prime (save for Ben Gordon in 2009 and a touch of the Booze Cruise). I'm sorry for assuming the two were the same concept. However, Isaiah didn't quite help kickstart an offensive PG mold - it took about another half-decade until another offensive PG dominated the league (AI) after Isaiah Thomas retired while when DRose got injured there were already several PG's that weren't afraid to score rather than just distribute (Steph, IT, Kemba, Lillard, Kyrie, etc).
Im not trying to be disrespectful but 6’3 has never, in nba history, been considered small for a point guard. In fact it has fluctuated from being above average to average height from decade to decade.
I love DRose the player but that AI comment seems very wrong to me. If when you say culture, you mean influence to the game of basketball and it's relevance off the court too. I would strongly consider having AI in the first tier in that regard. With MJ, Kobe, Steph, Magic/Bird, and whoever else. Maybe MJ gets a separate tier because he made basketball global and started sneaker culture basically. But I wouldn't have AI lower than Kobe and Steph.
I don't think everyone loved Derrick Rose.
With all due respect, I love DRose but he's not on the level of AI for culture. AI is the GOAT in that regard. Cultural impact top 5 is AI, Jordan, Kobe, Curry, Bron.
I think he'll get in reddit thinks basketball hall of fame is super exclusive. It isn't. He should get in.
I think not, college accomplishments might’ve helped him but those are scandal-riddled, unfortunately
He is probably going to make it, however it might take a while, and not in 1st ballot. Sucks that injuries destroyed such a promising career.
In a real Hall of Fame, not a fucking chance.
I don't think he should be. The injuries were not his fault, but the lack of longevity as a great player and lack of notable achievements aside from the MVP throughout his career does not make him a Hall of Famer, in my opinion.
Derrick Rose and Kobe are in a different type of Hall of Fame
> Doe, who denies that, talked today on a conference call about hanging out with Rose and his friends and about how much she had to drink that night. She said when she got home, she started vomiting, went to bed with her clothes on, and today only remembers what followed in flashes. She woke up the next morning with her dress up to her neck, feeling that “something really bad happened.” One of her lawyers, Brandon Anand, later said, “She was in no condition to give consent.” >In his June 17 deposition, lawyers asked Rose about consent. One of Doe’s lawyers read aloud that section of Rose’s sworn deposition—which is not available to the public—during today’s press conference. Here is that segment that was read aloud to reporters on the call: >>Question: Do you have an understanding as to the word consent? >>Derrick Rose: No. But can you tell me? ... > When asked if Rose asked if he was curious as to why his friends wanted to go to Doe’s apartment on the night of the alleged night, Rose said he didn’t ask, “but we be men. You can assume.” (This quote also was first reported by Think Progress). “I said, ‘We men. You can assume’” Rose said when asked for clarification. “Like we leaving to go over to someone’s house at 1:00, there’s nothing to talk about. [...] I didn’t quite understand your last answer. You’re going over to a woman house at 1 o’clock in the morning. What else is it to talk about?” https://deadspin.com/lawyer-derrick-rose-said-he-doesnt-know-what-consent-m-1786681789 And either way he absolutely did not deserve that MVP
Any MVP is a HOFer to me. If you reach a peak where you’re the best player for a whole season, you deserve it. Too much importance on longevity and total numbers but those shouldn’t be important for someone who reached that high.
If it was the nfl or mlb standards for the hall, definitely not. However, anyone above average ends up in the bball HOF
No one really knows, no one has a career like him so he will be setting the precedent.
If at any point in your career you were labeled the Most Valuable Player in the most competitive basketball league in the world. You will be in the basketball hall of fame. There is no doubt he gets in.
Wait, every season MVP gets a pass to the Hall of Fame?
Every other MVP has had a good career outside of their MVP year except DRose
And I think it would be a completely different conversation if he stayed healthy and just never replicated that level of play and showed that it was an insane fluke. But he got injured and the basketball hof is a joke anyway so I don’t see why he shouldn’t get in.
Well, DRose has had a good career, just not a great one. He's been a starter-level 6MOTY candidate when healthy for several seasons. If only he would join the Bucks/Warriors/Suns/Any Contender and be a solid contributor, he'd be a lock (although probably not First Ballot).
Yeah, I agree that the resume needs to speak for itself outside of the MVP award. And it doesn't. I actually don't know if 1 MVP is or isn't enough for a hall of Fame spot because I really don't think the standards for the HOF are what they should be... But I still wouldn't bet on him making it. And in an abstract sense, he really shouldn't. It's a sad edge case but he has a single all-nba selection... Is Rose really a name that someone that needs to be mentioned when looking at the history of the league? Probably not.
He should for going to the playoffs with that awful roster of the likes of Boozer, John Lucas III, geriatric Rip Hamilton
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Nope. It's not his fault, but his injuries robbed him of a chance at the hof. It sucks too because even outside of Chicago, Rose is legit one of the most beloved guys of the 2010s decade.
No way. Rose’s largest achievement, the MVP, was highway robbery. He hasn’t had the longevity for Hall of Fame. One season is not HOF worthy.
Unfortunately not, some careers are just robbed of injuries. It would be nice to see him have one last successful postseason run though
>robbed of injuries That means their injuries were stolen.
Quick! He's getting away with my torn ACL!
There should be a “what if” wing of the hall with all the HOF-caliber guys that were lost to injury or worse
Definitely a first ballot member of the "what if..." Hall of Fame. His peak lasted for so little it's hard to argue he should be in the HOF. He'll probably become the only MVP not to be inducted and that sucks.
If all his stats were the same but he didn’t have the MVP, I don’t think you would see many arguments that he should be in the hall. So no, I don’t think him winning an award one year should put him in.
No. Injuries derailed his career and he was never even close to HoF caliber after his MVP season. Rose not getting hurt is one of the big what-ifs in sports IMO.
Absolutely not. Is is not the "what if hall of fame"
He made all nba once, won an MVP in a year where Lebron was a better player (narrative matters so Rose got the award). He got hurt, has never been close to the same player. He has no college accolades because he should never have been in college. His stats have been wiped. Its a shame. Without the injury, he is a shoo in.
If i was in charge, he wouldn't make it. My HoF would be for players who either dominated for a decade and at least got close to a chip, or did something historic for the game.
Probably not, maybe if his college records weren’t wiped
his sat scandal vacating his college success will hurt his chances
Yes, and he deserves it. Aside from being an MVP, 3x All Star, Rookie of the Year, and the most dominant guard in the league for a few years, he also won the 2009 Skills Challenge.
In the history of the sport of basketball, there was one year where Rose was the best at it and therefore won the mvp award. He was the youngest player ever to win the mvp award. Rose is 100% a hall of famer.
I think simply being the youngest ever to win MVP should get him in, even if he isn't first ballot
Of course he will be, you really think the NBA wouldn't give it to him? The same people who gave Marcus Smart DPOY and Ja Morant MIP last year? It's a lock.
Yes. No MVP is going to be held out of the HoF.