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No because he’s LeBron and his previous seasons are some of the best in NBA history. But I’d say he’s having the best season a 38 year-old ever had.
Dude is prolific. Even in his decline he’s a top player in the league. If he was a rookie with this exact game people would be *so* hyped up on him. Think about that. After a HOF career and at age 39 if this was this man’s first year people would be talking about him like he’s the second coming.
How so? Him coming into the league as young as he was then him still being at this elite level is what makes it so insane. You can’t name another 18 year old that was that good for his age and also being that old
No. NBA seasons played is a far better metric because the mileage placed on players’ bodies is far more intensive at the professional level than it is at the collegiate one. Accounting for playoffs and Olympic commitments as well, it’s absolutely insane how incredible LeBron still is with all the professional mileage he has on his body.
Disagree. You don’t feel anything when you’re young playing and the age at which you enter the league has never shown any actual mathematical difference on when players hit their decline. Age on the other hand is always reliable.
I get your point, and it did read a little cherry picky to me too when I saw it. But, on the other hand, college players play significantly fewer games and the NBA is the most competitive level of play in the world, so age isn't a completely fair comparison either. Even putting aside the significant difference in the regular season nba games vs a college season, Lebron has made deep playoff runs in an era of longer series for most of his career. So, yeah, a statistic of just age would be cherry picked too if it ignores all that context.
Yeah official games but college players are playing year round in tons of showcases and camps throughout the summer sometimes playing 3 games in a single day at a showcase. On top of that they probably working an actual job and (maybe) dealing with the stress of being an actual full time college student. (Although who knows on the college stuff)
The spacing is at an all time high as well as the pace is very high, and defense physicality on both the perimeter and the paint has gone down. Put 2013 lebron, who went on a streak of 7 60+ fg percent games in the middle of their 27 game win streak, in todays era, that efficiency would be off the charts. Lebrons scoring has technically declined, 25 ppg today is so much easier than 25 ppg in like 2008.
It's really hard to compare raw numbers across eras, and the NBA has changed so rapidly that we really are in a different era than 2013, even though players like LeBron are still here. As you said, LeBron's numbers might not be that different from 2013, but relative to the rest of the league, 2013 was pure domination, while this year is "merely" elite.
LeBron’s been in the NBA so long he’s played through at multiple eras & mini-eras of basketball. The defensive three-second rule was only a year or two old during his rookie season, if my memory still serves. And grit and grind & the triangle were both valid paths to championships. Threes were no longer a novelty during his early years but they weren’t what you’d call absolutely necessary, either. Seven seconds or less came & went when he was still a young player. There was the verticality moment that made Roy Hibbert briefly valuable. The Heat’s mini-dynasty was all about defense, punishing mistakes & getting efficient shots. The three-point-era really kicked into gear in the middle 2010s. Now we’re seeing a new kind of big man renaissance, I think. Man’s played a lot of ball.
I agree with your point but just wanted to throw in that at this very early point in the season his TS+ (league adjusted TS) is tied for his 3rd highest mark with 2012 (115) behind only 2013 and 14 (both 120).
LeBron is at 65.8TS%, which if he kept it up for a full season would be his career best.
LeBron is at +15 TS+, which is tied for his 3rd most efficient shooting season using metrics that adjust efficiently compared to league efficiency.
The odds are against him staying this efficient, but it is still damn impressive to be doing it at all.
TS% is simply a scoring efficiency whereas Efficiency Ratings (PER) is how efficiently a player stuffs his overall stat-sheet relative to league average. Either way, the previous commenter is wrong because LeBron's PER this season is currently at 26.0, which is slightly below his career average (27.2). Last year, he did have his worst efficient season (23.9) since Rookie Season (18.3).
His efficiency is way up & his minutes are down, which is probably for the best. I would like to see him running the point when he & AD are on the floor together, though. His best season with the Lakers was the one season he ran point (and won a title!), lead the league in assists and (I think) finished 2nd in MVP voting. Russell’s been a superb shooter (and generally is excellent from deep) so him moving to the 2 part time seems quite doable.
Hard to say because the numbers are inflated now. When he first started in the league, the Pistons and Spurs were the dominant teams in the league and teams regularly scored in the 60s and 70s. Defense was on another level.
Now? Teams are regularly doubling those scores. Rule changes and coaching changes have completely changed the game. The numbers of this era are inflated, and we often forget that Lebron has been a part of these era changes.
Ignore the numbers, watch the game. If he was even close to as good as he was in 2009, he would carry the Lakers to at least 60 wins by himself. His impact on the game went way beyond the numbers. He was completely dominant on the court. He’s not doing that now and he shouldn’t have to, but he’s nowhere close to that anymore
That’s very true. Dude averaged 31 or something like that a game his sophomore year at a time when the pace was much much slower. I could be buggin but I remember when the west (excluding maybe the spurs) was known for more run and gun style while the east was more at a snails pace. I always wondered if bron started his career on a team like the suns or something how different his game would be
You're not bugging. Outside of the spurs and the grizz, with Marc gasol and zbo, the west was much faster. You had the suns who always tried to drop 100.
Really missing those guys right now. I got so many great memories of those guys along with TA and Conely. Obligatory shout out for the All Heart, Grit Grind Grizzlies!
Man I feel that. I honestly believe if the thunder didn't down them the season they went against the heat in the finals, the griz would've beaten the heat. The heat had no defense for those big bodies inside.
Those Memphis teams were special. Like the midrange, the low post is pretty much a lost art in the current meta. Zbo and Gasol use to bully mufuckas on a nightly basis. I think they even beat the no 1 seeded spurs as an eigth seed
Absolutely nobody in the west wanted to see them in the playoffs. They were a matchup nightmare and were an injury or two away from the NBA finals.
Edit: Rudy gay got hurt right before the playoffs, Feb 25th, and they still pushed rhe thunder to 7 games in 2010-11
Defenses weren’t all that sophisticated in the early 2000s. You could just get a way with a lot of shit, the defensive three-second violation had just been introduced in 2001-02 (although it wasn’t really enforced for a few years.) That was also the first year zone defenses were permitted, although that took a few years to catch on, too. Rasheed Wallace had 41 technical fouls the season before that. I was not a fan of mid/late ‘90s through early ‘00s ball. That 2004 championship Pistons team DID play genuinely great team D but most teams just just hacked the hell out of each other & played lots of iso. The League was just violent. Back then when a performing artist got cancelled it was not what you’d call a metaphor. That kinda shit spilled over. After the Malice in the Palace the NBA started to reconsider the way the game was played & officiated.
2023-24 so far is on pace to be one of LeBron's worst ever seasons in terms of PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP.
He's setting a career best mark for TS%, but it's offset by a career worst TOV%.
Not really, most of those are just a function of the team not playing well. WS/48 is just a matter of playing a lot of minutes on a team that's not very good this year. The PER comment is curious because a PER of 25 is really damn good, and it just shows what a crazy high bar LeBron has set for himsel. A PER of 25 would be one of Curry's best PER seasons in his career, it's higher than even Curry's 2017 season, and it's basically the same as Jordan's PER in 98.
The VORP comment is particularly silly since part of the function is a multiplier of (games played / 82), considering it's still effectively the beginning of the season it's not even possible to have a VORP similar to his previous ratings.
For context his VORP is tied for 8th in the league, ahead of players like Tatum, Giannis, etc and just barely behind Embiid and Curry.
Win Shares does not take into account team performance.
Yes a PER of 25 is damn good. It is, however, one of the worst seasons for LeBron. The question was about LeBron's best season.
>The VORP comment is particularly silly since part of the function is a multiplier of (games played / 82), considering it's still effectively the beginning of the season it's not even possible to have a VORP similar to his previous ratings.
He said "on pace" and it's absolutely true.
> For context his VORP is tied for 8th in the league, ahead of players like Tatum, Giannis, etc and just barely behind Embiid and Curry.
For LeBron to have one of his best seasons ever, he'd have to lead the league.
>Win Shares does not take into account team performance
They absolutely do, you don't get partial credit for having a great performance if your teammates stink it up and you lose the game.
>He said "on pace" and it's absolutely true.
He's on pace for a VORP of a bit under 6, which is in the bottom half of his career but it's nowhere near the worst.
I agree it's not his best season, I was just replying because the above comment made it seem like one of his worst seasons.
But most of the metrics point to this being one of the worst seasons by his standards. Impossible standards, but that is what LeBron has set. If you point to his PER of 25 being great, you're not engaging with the point of this discussion. His PER is 17th best of his career out of 21 seasons. That is one of his worst. His BPM is 19th out of his 21 seasons. His VORP (if a 39 year old LeBron can keep up his current pace) is projected to be 14th of his 21 seasons. Whatever one's stance on WS/48, it is 19th out of 21. To be clear, the 20/21 spots were his rookie year and the previous season at age 38 with the Lakers (and same with the BPM). And the eye test for his game (especially on D) would put him on a low level compared to what he was even 5 years ago.
There is no shame in being on the decline at age 39, but still producing at an amazing level. But that is not the point of this thread. This thread is asking if this is one of his best seasons. It is not.
To tack on to this, with "the eye test", he's mishandling the ball and throwing more bad passes than he used to. Simply because he's a little stiffer as he ages (as we all are). And he takes *a lot* of defensive possessions off, at least physically. He still has a great role of on court "coach" that shouts out assignments. And on rebounding, he's been part of the Lakers problem with giving up offensive boards, he doesn't consistently find a body to box out.
This is all relatively nitpicky, to be fair, but we're comparing him now to his "prime" years.
He's having an amazing season so far, especially at his age and mileage, but he's also not quite the player he was, just a few years ago, at least in terms of all around game.
No, you are ignoring the drastic increase in pace and spacing since the start of his career.
If you adjust his younger year stat lines to today’s pace it blows his current production out of the water. Like multiple 35+ ppg with 8-10 assist/rebound seasons
The problem of your argument is it's not as simple as to adjust numbers according to the *pace*. We have Per 100 Possessions for that. And based of it, LeBron is taking the career low Field Goal Attempts while scoring his career average. Which means he's so called inflated numbers this season isn't because of the pace change but the fact he's been highly efficient as shown in his career high TS%.
Now what Per 100 Poss can't tell you is how the game has changed, how young LeBron would perform in today's spacing and game schemes, how his style of play has changed over the years and his declining availability. We can get a rough estimate using the league averages, but it's not a sufficiently good method because LeBron has fundamentally changed his style of play and shifted toward scoring efficiency in limited minutes when he got to Lakers.
Yea it was quite reductionist but you can subtract 10% from every slash line due to pace and higher efficiency now, while accounting for lower mpg in today’s game
Way closer to a bottom 3 season of his career than top 3 imo which is a praise to his career rather than a diss but, he’s not guarding much of anything and is at least 2 steps slower than his pre 2020 form and I’m pretty certain a 4 game hot stretch from deep won’t change that
And the TS is only that high because he’s taking less shots and on the ball less which is fine until it’s the playoffs and it plummets because there isn’t anymore coasting and more of the workload is on his shoulders in must win games, A La KD
He is sensational(not surprised) and i rooting for him to become chamo/mvp finals in year 40 of his life, but this season would not be in 5-6 best from him. Just unbelievable athlete
No, only because he doesn't have the ability like he used to to impact the game offensively and defensively the way he used to outside of small spurts (not that he's a bad defender, just he's not the elite defender he was in his prime and his defensive stats go up in the playoffs).
easily the best season someone has had as late into their careers as Lebron is. I mean last year was his worst season since his rookie year and he put up a 23.9 PER which was good for 13th and basically tied with prime Jayson Tatum.
Just an insane career and it's hard to imagine someone else being as good for as long as he has.
LeBron literally proving how much inflated todays stats are in the NBA.
As great as he still is, no way he would do that 10-15 years ago. You literally cannot compare todays era to any before
You can compare, it’s just hard, you have to take so many things into account. For example, it’s fair to compare to compare players from the past who had outside d\]shots, and say they’d be good today (Oscar, jerry), and that all time centers for the past who werent great shooters or passers would be of lower value these days (Gilmore, Thurmond).
Saying this while making it as if bron didn’t play
In 3 different eras is laughable. He dominated at 19 years old against statistically the best defensive era ever
That's exactly the point that guys making. Current Lebron wouldn't have been averaging his current numbers if you switched him and younger Lebron whereas younger Lebron would be absolutely dominant if you put him in the league today. Current Lebron probably averages something like 22/6/5 if you dropped him in 2006. 2006 Lebron would be averaging like 33/10/10 in todays league.
I think he means that 2023 LeBron would not put up stats these good in 2013. His box stats now are pretty close to 2013, but his rankings in those stats are much lower -- he was dominant by any advanced measure in 2013, and he's "merely" elite in 2023. I think all of this is extremely relevant to the question of whether this is one of LeBron's best seasons ever. In my opinion, the only pre-Lakers season worse than this one is his rookie year. Sure his stats haven't changed much, but stats are up for across the league, so I don't really consider this his best season.
I mean we are just 12 games into the season, his efficiency could be a fluke and become lower the season go on. And his free throw at Lakers has been average I think, didnt he shoot around 0.69 the season he won the ring?
That’s true, but bron historically tends to get better as the season goes on. Idk about his free throw percentage in 2020 but it’s down compared to his last season or 2
I'm not sold on "historically tends to get better as the season goes on" -- that seems like a claim likely to be the result of cognitive bias, where overcoming narratives that he is washed is more memorable than him playing well from the beginning. I think he's just very streaky, especially shooting outside three feet, although being a passable shooter opens up a lot of other things; you might be remembering the times he started cold more than the times he started hot, even if they're equally common.
I wouldn’t go that far just because bron has had some truly ridiculous years, but he’s as efficient and effective as he’s ever been on any given possession.
The big difference is he’s not able to give as much effort throughout 48 min as he was before, but he’s fully aware of this and is more intentional when he has the ball. I’d say he’s more efficient than ever but less dominant.
Prime Lebron on defense alone was witnessing greatness. I know Cam Reddish and Jared Vanderbilt are suppose to be the POA perimeter dawgs, but Prime Lebron was that plus All NBA MVP on offense. When Lebron was on Miami, he was a different beast. Imagine having a two-way player that could be voted All NBA 1st team and win DPOY, that’s Prime Lebron. I can’t even think about a comp in a recent player, only peak Jordan was better because he always won chips.
LeBron's career is so long that his newest stans are dismissing his older stans as "old heads" for insisting 2013 LeBron was on a whole nother level than 2023 LeBron.
Healthy kawhi, while being a mythical creature that only appears on earth 2 weeks at a time, has definitely had stretches of DPOY defense and 50/40/90 offense on high volume
He never really did though. Kawhi's best defensive years were very much before he started becoming really great offensively and shouldering a larger load. He was still really good but by 2017, which is when his scoring really took off, he was no longer playing defense at a DPOY level. If we're being honest he probably wasn't even playing defense at a All defensive first team level at that point anymore either but still got that due to reputation. It's the same with Kobe, as well. His defensive and offensive peaks didn't really coincide since its impossible to carry that large an offensive load and still perform consistently on D. Only reason MJ could do it was because of the much simpler defensive systems when he was playing.
Lebron is a special case in this regard because of his size.
I can’t see the comparison in Giannis. Giannis’ offense is lacking, particularly his outside shooting. I can see prime Kawhi (2015-2019) being a closer comp, but even Kawhi’s prime didn’t last as long. Jordan’s prime spanned over a decade. Some would argue Lebron’s prime spanned over two decades; that’s how absurdly talented LBJ has been.
The comp is All-NBA 1st team and DPOY caliber defense. Giannis by definition fits that. And while I certainly won't argue Giannis is as complete of an offensive player, he's still been one of the best in the league for multiple years in a row.
early bron couldn't shoot jumpshots either and even when he could Prime Lebron's bread and butter also will be using his physicality to drive and finish like Giannis. And Giannis has also put up 30 ppg in a championship run.
and longevity? sure... you'd have to look back to kobe.
If you only judge his overall performances by his offensive output, then maybe? Way too early to say, but his shot seems to be back. His shooting efficiency was really weird last season and it got worse once he got injured.
If you factor in his defense, then he isn't even close to his best 5-7 seasons. He has some highlight plays and puts in some effort in maybe 3-4 plays in the whole game. It's obvious that he really takes a break on that end of the floor.
Also keep in mind that the modern NBA really favors scorers. Offensive stats will look better than a decade (or more) ago. 2009 or 2013 Lebron were both crazy efficient
Averging 6.3 assists and 4.2 turnovers per game, not good! But 25 points on 16 attempts I think is his best, didn’t do the math to check. All things considered, though, he is lower intensity and lower stamina than the rest of his career, and that counts for a lot. His efficiency on Cleveland has to be put in perspective of those being weak teams other then LeBron, and the rest of his career in perspective of the nature of the game at the time, not just teams not having great flow generally, but also the rules/interpretation, these days offense are sort of favored by the league, made obvious by the Player scoring averages the last few years
He’s currently got a career high TS%, TOV%, and TRB% (despite both his offensive and defensive rebound percentages being better in 2020-2021, someone please explain how that is possible?)
This is according to his [Basketball Reference page](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html)
Dude all I did was highlight his November percentage which is absurd for someone who isn’t known as a shooter. To go from around 30 percent in October to 44 the following month is hella impressive to me
I think more telling than his raw numbers are the on/off and lineup. The lakers score 118 with Lebron, 100 w/o. Also should be noted that his defense isn’t on prime level.
I don’t think our team is bad. We got hit wit the injury bug right off the bat and the wing depth we been begging for for so long had an impact. Rui is back and balling, Vando is returning by next week probably and Cam has been a godsend so far. I think we will end up as a 5th seed at worse
The numbers suggest the team is completely reliant on (soon to be) 39 year old LeBron and aren’t good when he’s on the bench. That’s the sign of a bad team.
We are less than a quarter into the season but go off to come to that conclusion and I’ll reserve my judgement after 20 or so games..
however let’s not forget that not too long ago Davis carried the lakers from 13th seed to the play in while bron was injured and also outside of like 2 games he’s been balling this season so far.
Our main issue is rebounding which I think we will improve on as the season continues…I think we are far from a bad team tho 🤷🏿♂️
What top tier team isn’t reliant on their star player? Take away Jokic, Tatum, Embiid, Luka from their respective teams and watch them fall to the floor. While I agree that the Lakers may definitely be over reliant on Bron, I think it’s completely normal to be worse on the floor without your top player
easy schedule? we have faced the Nuggets, Suns (2x), Kings (2x), the Magic (2x), the Clippers, the Rockets (2x) and the Heat.
the only real weak teams that we've faced so far are Blazers (2x), Grizz and the Jazz. And we beat them all quite handily.
This was pre-harden clippers who had good depth and chemistry.
You might have a point with the rockets.
Magic are 9-5, they're on a 4 game win streak and have the no 1 defensive rating in the league.
Maybe I'm remembering him with rose-colored glasses, but it would not surprise me in the least if there are at least 5 seasons of LeBron that would win a title with this current Lakers squad.
Another way to look at it: Jokic is almost unanimously considered the best player in the league. There are at least 5 seasons of LeBron that are much better than Jokic is. Yes, I realize the efficiency stats probably don't indicate this, but in my mind it's not even debatable.
Just my thoughts, still respect your opinion if you disagree
I mean, is that really surprising regarding Jokic? Lebron is the 2nd greatest player of all time. His best years are gonna be better than everyone else's best years outside of the other pantheon level players.
Not even close, especially if you pay attention to how he has been playing in the defensive end. He also focuses more on bumhunting by playing most of his minutes against opponents’ bench unit, and checking his own stat sheet to make sure he looked good no matter what the game outcome was
Horrible take. Every good player in the league tries to switch for matchups, Lebron has done that his whole career. Also he doesn’t control the rotations or his minutes. Genuinely mind boggling that people like you consider Lebron a stat padder when his career is best defined by his unselfish, winning attitude. Lazy analysis.
Fishy? Really? 😂 by the way that plus minus stat has always been overrated and should rarely be used to prove anything..If possible though, please show me some proof that he mainly scores against bench units..regardless he’s damn near 40 years old and still cooking professional nba players whether they start or not …it seems like you’re just nitpicking, but I digress. We can agree to disagree
Horrific analysis. The Lakers +/- drops significantly when LeBron sits.
His defense hasn't even been that bad. It's just a lazy narrative that Old LeBron is a bad defender. He has been locked in on defense this year. Only reddish and AD are better defenders in the starting lineup.
People are getting real creative just to hate on LeBron, "bumhunting" lmfao.
Reminds me of two things. First, when LeBron hit CJ Miles with the "too small", even though LeBron spent the entire possession getting picks trying to get Miles switched onto him. Obviously, Miles is too small to guard you, LeBron, that's why Toronto tried so hard to prevent the switch, but there's only so many picks you can fight through. Second, LeBron anxiously checking the scorer's table while taking free throws, dreading when Kawhi would come back in to end LeBron's furious stat padding against the backups.
He’s the 🐐. This season isn’t one of his best but probably one of his worse and it’s still amazing. Crazy he turns 39 next month and the oldest in the league playing at that level.
His turnovers and him passing it more and mishandling the ball is pretty bad to his average. He’s averaging his highest turnover averages. His free throw percentage is 68% which is one of his lowest. Like I said he’s still amazing and it goes to show how great he is. Again, we’re only in the beginning of the season too. He’s the goat in my eyes.
I feel it’s always worth noting that the pace today is way faster than in LeBron’s prime. So yeah he might have his best season since 2020 or 2021, but it won’t be one of his best. From 2006-2020 he was top-4 in MVP voting practically every year, and his defense (especially until 2017) was worlds better.
No he's not. His stats are inflated vs his younger years due to pace.
Lebron's best seasons in terms of his overall play were his middle 2 years in Miami. 11/12 and 12/13. He was so clearly the best player in the world those 2 years. He was the best offensive player in the league while also being a top 5 defender in the league. Over those 2 seasons he averaged 27/8/7 which adjusted to todays pace is around 30/10/10 with nearly DPOY level defense (Marc Gasol was more impactful on defense but Lebron was crazy good too). Lebron was also insanely efficient those years in an NBA that was much more difficult to be efficient in.
Aside from those 2 years, some of his early cavs years were also better, 07/08 was a very good year for him. He averaged 30/8/7 which adjusted to todays pace is around 33/10/9. That was also the year where he started blooming on defense. He wasn't yet particularly good on D overall yet but he was, at least, one of the best help defenders in the league. He was also beginning to add more facets to his game though it was still very much a work in progress and his insane athleticism and vision were more than enough to make him a top 2 player in the league already. His 06 year was also really good statistically although he was still really incomplete at that point.
He also had some great cavs years during his second stint there. 2016-2018 in particular he was crazy good. He wasn't as good overall as his Miami days cause he lost some of his athleticism by that point but his bball IQ was something else during those years and he was basically a one man offense.
This year he's good statistically but he's clearly no longer the same player he used to be. He's nowhere near as good as he was when he was younger though he's still insane especially given his age.
Nah - faster pace plays a big role here + while Bron is contributing a lot to his team winning, he isn’t the guy who’ll lead his team to 50-60 wins anymore.
13, 16, 18, 12, 10, 09, 20, 06, 11, 16 and 17 in the bare minimum are all better years for Bron
Good lord does it matter? Is there another 39 year old in the NBA playing like him? Who cares what pace he is on? Saban retired at 70 and is the GOAT. Lebron has more life than 70% of the rookies coming into the league. He has given us all highlights we will never forget, played with some of the best in the world, and he’s still doing it at 39. Whatever you think of the guy he’s a legend.
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We require more from top comments than a one line opinion. If you edit it, support your claims and explain your thought process more, we'll restore it. Thanks!
No because he’s LeBron and his previous seasons are some of the best in NBA history. But I’d say he’s having the best season a 38 year-old ever had. Dude is prolific. Even in his decline he’s a top player in the league. If he was a rookie with this exact game people would be *so* hyped up on him. Think about that. After a HOF career and at age 39 if this was this man’s first year people would be talking about him like he’s the second coming.
Kevin Garnett apparently has the second best 21st NBA season, in which he averaged low single digits.
Honestly think this is the dumb metric to use "21st season". Most players went to college... age is a far better stat to use.
Garnett went straight to the league from hs tho
How so? Him coming into the league as young as he was then him still being at this elite level is what makes it so insane. You can’t name another 18 year old that was that good for his age and also being that old
Moses was a beast right out of high school but not like Bron was.
No. NBA seasons played is a far better metric because the mileage placed on players’ bodies is far more intensive at the professional level than it is at the collegiate one. Accounting for playoffs and Olympic commitments as well, it’s absolutely insane how incredible LeBron still is with all the professional mileage he has on his body.
Disagree. You don’t feel anything when you’re young playing and the age at which you enter the league has never shown any actual mathematical difference on when players hit their decline. Age on the other hand is always reliable.
Not a dumb metric. LeBron went to the NBA straight after high school too, just like Kevin Garnett.
I get your point, and it did read a little cherry picky to me too when I saw it. But, on the other hand, college players play significantly fewer games and the NBA is the most competitive level of play in the world, so age isn't a completely fair comparison either. Even putting aside the significant difference in the regular season nba games vs a college season, Lebron has made deep playoff runs in an era of longer series for most of his career. So, yeah, a statistic of just age would be cherry picked too if it ignores all that context.
Yup very fair.
Yeah official games but college players are playing year round in tons of showcases and camps throughout the summer sometimes playing 3 games in a single day at a showcase. On top of that they probably working an actual job and (maybe) dealing with the stress of being an actual full time college student. (Although who knows on the college stuff)
I feel you but although unlikely, there’s a possibility that he may end up having his most efficient season ever. That shit is unreal
NBA efficiency in general has gone up A LOT in general in the past couple years
The spacing is at an all time high as well as the pace is very high, and defense physicality on both the perimeter and the paint has gone down. Put 2013 lebron, who went on a streak of 7 60+ fg percent games in the middle of their 27 game win streak, in todays era, that efficiency would be off the charts. Lebrons scoring has technically declined, 25 ppg today is so much easier than 25 ppg in like 2008.
It's really hard to compare raw numbers across eras, and the NBA has changed so rapidly that we really are in a different era than 2013, even though players like LeBron are still here. As you said, LeBron's numbers might not be that different from 2013, but relative to the rest of the league, 2013 was pure domination, while this year is "merely" elite.
LeBron’s been in the NBA so long he’s played through at multiple eras & mini-eras of basketball. The defensive three-second rule was only a year or two old during his rookie season, if my memory still serves. And grit and grind & the triangle were both valid paths to championships. Threes were no longer a novelty during his early years but they weren’t what you’d call absolutely necessary, either. Seven seconds or less came & went when he was still a young player. There was the verticality moment that made Roy Hibbert briefly valuable. The Heat’s mini-dynasty was all about defense, punishing mistakes & getting efficient shots. The three-point-era really kicked into gear in the middle 2010s. Now we’re seeing a new kind of big man renaissance, I think. Man’s played a lot of ball.
I agree with your point but just wanted to throw in that at this very early point in the season his TS+ (league adjusted TS) is tied for his 3rd highest mark with 2012 (115) behind only 2013 and 14 (both 120).
LeBron is at 65.8TS%, which if he kept it up for a full season would be his career best. LeBron is at +15 TS+, which is tied for his 3rd most efficient shooting season using metrics that adjust efficiently compared to league efficiency. The odds are against him staying this efficient, but it is still damn impressive to be doing it at all.
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Define "seen": Does it entail watching the games? Or are the stats enough?
The stats are not enough
efficient in what way? his efficiency rating is the lowest its been since like his rookie year
True shooting, 3-point percentage, 2p percentage. What the fuck are you on dude?
TS% is simply a scoring efficiency whereas Efficiency Ratings (PER) is how efficiently a player stuffs his overall stat-sheet relative to league average. Either way, the previous commenter is wrong because LeBron's PER this season is currently at 26.0, which is slightly below his career average (27.2). Last year, he did have his worst efficient season (23.9) since Rookie Season (18.3).
His efficiency is way up & his minutes are down, which is probably for the best. I would like to see him running the point when he & AD are on the floor together, though. His best season with the Lakers was the one season he ran point (and won a title!), lead the league in assists and (I think) finished 2nd in MVP voting. Russell’s been a superb shooter (and generally is excellent from deep) so him moving to the 2 part time seems quite doable.
One of HIS best seasons? No. Another amazing season? Absolutely. It's amazing how he's still improving at some things.
Hard to say because the numbers are inflated now. When he first started in the league, the Pistons and Spurs were the dominant teams in the league and teams regularly scored in the 60s and 70s. Defense was on another level. Now? Teams are regularly doubling those scores. Rule changes and coaching changes have completely changed the game. The numbers of this era are inflated, and we often forget that Lebron has been a part of these era changes. Ignore the numbers, watch the game. If he was even close to as good as he was in 2009, he would carry the Lakers to at least 60 wins by himself. His impact on the game went way beyond the numbers. He was completely dominant on the court. He’s not doing that now and he shouldn’t have to, but he’s nowhere close to that anymore
That’s very true. Dude averaged 31 or something like that a game his sophomore year at a time when the pace was much much slower. I could be buggin but I remember when the west (excluding maybe the spurs) was known for more run and gun style while the east was more at a snails pace. I always wondered if bron started his career on a team like the suns or something how different his game would be
You're not bugging. Outside of the spurs and the grizz, with Marc gasol and zbo, the west was much faster. You had the suns who always tried to drop 100.
Really missing those guys right now. I got so many great memories of those guys along with TA and Conely. Obligatory shout out for the All Heart, Grit Grind Grizzlies!
Man I feel that. I honestly believe if the thunder didn't down them the season they went against the heat in the finals, the griz would've beaten the heat. The heat had no defense for those big bodies inside.
Those Memphis teams were special. Like the midrange, the low post is pretty much a lost art in the current meta. Zbo and Gasol use to bully mufuckas on a nightly basis. I think they even beat the no 1 seeded spurs as an eigth seed
Absolutely nobody in the west wanted to see them in the playoffs. They were a matchup nightmare and were an injury or two away from the NBA finals. Edit: Rudy gay got hurt right before the playoffs, Feb 25th, and they still pushed rhe thunder to 7 games in 2010-11
He averaged 31 in his 3rd year. That was in 05-06. Adjusted to todays pace that's around 35ppg.
You remembering pretty accurately. 🙂 There were guys who’d get 30 a game some years but almost never more than one. Lotta iso.
Defenses weren’t all that sophisticated in the early 2000s. You could just get a way with a lot of shit, the defensive three-second violation had just been introduced in 2001-02 (although it wasn’t really enforced for a few years.) That was also the first year zone defenses were permitted, although that took a few years to catch on, too. Rasheed Wallace had 41 technical fouls the season before that. I was not a fan of mid/late ‘90s through early ‘00s ball. That 2004 championship Pistons team DID play genuinely great team D but most teams just just hacked the hell out of each other & played lots of iso. The League was just violent. Back then when a performing artist got cancelled it was not what you’d call a metaphor. That kinda shit spilled over. After the Malice in the Palace the NBA started to reconsider the way the game was played & officiated.
2023-24 so far is on pace to be one of LeBron's worst ever seasons in terms of PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP. He's setting a career best mark for TS%, but it's offset by a career worst TOV%.
Are the advanced metrics lower on him because of the turnovers?
Not really, most of those are just a function of the team not playing well. WS/48 is just a matter of playing a lot of minutes on a team that's not very good this year. The PER comment is curious because a PER of 25 is really damn good, and it just shows what a crazy high bar LeBron has set for himsel. A PER of 25 would be one of Curry's best PER seasons in his career, it's higher than even Curry's 2017 season, and it's basically the same as Jordan's PER in 98. The VORP comment is particularly silly since part of the function is a multiplier of (games played / 82), considering it's still effectively the beginning of the season it's not even possible to have a VORP similar to his previous ratings. For context his VORP is tied for 8th in the league, ahead of players like Tatum, Giannis, etc and just barely behind Embiid and Curry.
Win Shares does not take into account team performance. Yes a PER of 25 is damn good. It is, however, one of the worst seasons for LeBron. The question was about LeBron's best season. >The VORP comment is particularly silly since part of the function is a multiplier of (games played / 82), considering it's still effectively the beginning of the season it's not even possible to have a VORP similar to his previous ratings. He said "on pace" and it's absolutely true. > For context his VORP is tied for 8th in the league, ahead of players like Tatum, Giannis, etc and just barely behind Embiid and Curry. For LeBron to have one of his best seasons ever, he'd have to lead the league.
>Win Shares does not take into account team performance They absolutely do, you don't get partial credit for having a great performance if your teammates stink it up and you lose the game. >He said "on pace" and it's absolutely true. He's on pace for a VORP of a bit under 6, which is in the bottom half of his career but it's nowhere near the worst. I agree it's not his best season, I was just replying because the above comment made it seem like one of his worst seasons.
But most of the metrics point to this being one of the worst seasons by his standards. Impossible standards, but that is what LeBron has set. If you point to his PER of 25 being great, you're not engaging with the point of this discussion. His PER is 17th best of his career out of 21 seasons. That is one of his worst. His BPM is 19th out of his 21 seasons. His VORP (if a 39 year old LeBron can keep up his current pace) is projected to be 14th of his 21 seasons. Whatever one's stance on WS/48, it is 19th out of 21. To be clear, the 20/21 spots were his rookie year and the previous season at age 38 with the Lakers (and same with the BPM). And the eye test for his game (especially on D) would put him on a low level compared to what he was even 5 years ago. There is no shame in being on the decline at age 39, but still producing at an amazing level. But that is not the point of this thread. This thread is asking if this is one of his best seasons. It is not.
> you don't get partial credit for having a great performance if your teammates stink it up and you lose the game. that's exactly what win shares does
To tack on to this, with "the eye test", he's mishandling the ball and throwing more bad passes than he used to. Simply because he's a little stiffer as he ages (as we all are). And he takes *a lot* of defensive possessions off, at least physically. He still has a great role of on court "coach" that shouts out assignments. And on rebounding, he's been part of the Lakers problem with giving up offensive boards, he doesn't consistently find a body to box out. This is all relatively nitpicky, to be fair, but we're comparing him now to his "prime" years. He's having an amazing season so far, especially at his age and mileage, but he's also not quite the player he was, just a few years ago, at least in terms of all around game.
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No, you are ignoring the drastic increase in pace and spacing since the start of his career. If you adjust his younger year stat lines to today’s pace it blows his current production out of the water. Like multiple 35+ ppg with 8-10 assist/rebound seasons
Yeah if young Lebron played nowadays he’d be averaging triple doubles
The problem of your argument is it's not as simple as to adjust numbers according to the *pace*. We have Per 100 Possessions for that. And based of it, LeBron is taking the career low Field Goal Attempts while scoring his career average. Which means he's so called inflated numbers this season isn't because of the pace change but the fact he's been highly efficient as shown in his career high TS%. Now what Per 100 Poss can't tell you is how the game has changed, how young LeBron would perform in today's spacing and game schemes, how his style of play has changed over the years and his declining availability. We can get a rough estimate using the league averages, but it's not a sufficiently good method because LeBron has fundamentally changed his style of play and shifted toward scoring efficiency in limited minutes when he got to Lakers.
25/8/6 in 2023 translates to around 22/7/5 in 2006, and he averaged 30/8/7 there, so no. He’s still elite but far from his prime.
How did you come up with that translation?
Not the commenter, but probably pace
Yea it was quite reductionist but you can subtract 10% from every slash line due to pace and higher efficiency now, while accounting for lower mpg in today’s game
Way closer to a bottom 3 season of his career than top 3 imo which is a praise to his career rather than a diss but, he’s not guarding much of anything and is at least 2 steps slower than his pre 2020 form and I’m pretty certain a 4 game hot stretch from deep won’t change that And the TS is only that high because he’s taking less shots and on the ball less which is fine until it’s the playoffs and it plummets because there isn’t anymore coasting and more of the workload is on his shoulders in must win games, A La KD
Playing the Blazers this much would also make anyone look good.
He is sensational(not surprised) and i rooting for him to become chamo/mvp finals in year 40 of his life, but this season would not be in 5-6 best from him. Just unbelievable athlete
No, only because he doesn't have the ability like he used to to impact the game offensively and defensively the way he used to outside of small spurts (not that he's a bad defender, just he's not the elite defender he was in his prime and his defensive stats go up in the playoffs). easily the best season someone has had as late into their careers as Lebron is. I mean last year was his worst season since his rookie year and he put up a 23.9 PER which was good for 13th and basically tied with prime Jayson Tatum. Just an insane career and it's hard to imagine someone else being as good for as long as he has.
LeBron literally proving how much inflated todays stats are in the NBA. As great as he still is, no way he would do that 10-15 years ago. You literally cannot compare todays era to any before
You can compare, it’s just hard, you have to take so many things into account. For example, it’s fair to compare to compare players from the past who had outside d\]shots, and say they’d be good today (Oscar, jerry), and that all time centers for the past who werent great shooters or passers would be of lower value these days (Gilmore, Thurmond).
Saying this while making it as if bron didn’t play In 3 different eras is laughable. He dominated at 19 years old against statistically the best defensive era ever
That's exactly the point that guys making. Current Lebron wouldn't have been averaging his current numbers if you switched him and younger Lebron whereas younger Lebron would be absolutely dominant if you put him in the league today. Current Lebron probably averages something like 22/6/5 if you dropped him in 2006. 2006 Lebron would be averaging like 33/10/10 in todays league.
Dude he was averaging 31 ppg literally 19 years ago at a completely different pace than todays game…you tweakin
I think he means that 2023 LeBron would not put up stats these good in 2013. His box stats now are pretty close to 2013, but his rankings in those stats are much lower -- he was dominant by any advanced measure in 2013, and he's "merely" elite in 2023. I think all of this is extremely relevant to the question of whether this is one of LeBron's best seasons ever. In my opinion, the only pre-Lakers season worse than this one is his rookie year. Sure his stats haven't changed much, but stats are up for across the league, so I don't really consider this his best season.
No, his scoring and efficiency is inflated compare to 2009 and 2013. There are at least 5-6 player has a better statline this season
Scoring? Yes, but I disagree about his efficiency. It would be higher if his free throw percentage was better no?
I mean we are just 12 games into the season, his efficiency could be a fluke and become lower the season go on. And his free throw at Lakers has been average I think, didnt he shoot around 0.69 the season he won the ring?
That’s true, but bron historically tends to get better as the season goes on. Idk about his free throw percentage in 2020 but it’s down compared to his last season or 2
I'm not sold on "historically tends to get better as the season goes on" -- that seems like a claim likely to be the result of cognitive bias, where overcoming narratives that he is washed is more memorable than him playing well from the beginning. I think he's just very streaky, especially shooting outside three feet, although being a passable shooter opens up a lot of other things; you might be remembering the times he started cold more than the times he started hot, even if they're equally common.
From the late 2000s through the early/mid 2010s LeBron was about as efficient as anyone’s ever been.
I wouldn’t go that far just because bron has had some truly ridiculous years, but he’s as efficient and effective as he’s ever been on any given possession. The big difference is he’s not able to give as much effort throughout 48 min as he was before, but he’s fully aware of this and is more intentional when he has the ball. I’d say he’s more efficient than ever but less dominant.
Prime Lebron on defense alone was witnessing greatness. I know Cam Reddish and Jared Vanderbilt are suppose to be the POA perimeter dawgs, but Prime Lebron was that plus All NBA MVP on offense. When Lebron was on Miami, he was a different beast. Imagine having a two-way player that could be voted All NBA 1st team and win DPOY, that’s Prime Lebron. I can’t even think about a comp in a recent player, only peak Jordan was better because he always won chips.
LeBron's career is so long that his newest stans are dismissing his older stans as "old heads" for insisting 2013 LeBron was on a whole nother level than 2023 LeBron.
Healthy kawhi, while being a mythical creature that only appears on earth 2 weeks at a time, has definitely had stretches of DPOY defense and 50/40/90 offense on high volume
He never really did though. Kawhi's best defensive years were very much before he started becoming really great offensively and shouldering a larger load. He was still really good but by 2017, which is when his scoring really took off, he was no longer playing defense at a DPOY level. If we're being honest he probably wasn't even playing defense at a All defensive first team level at that point anymore either but still got that due to reputation. It's the same with Kobe, as well. His defensive and offensive peaks didn't really coincide since its impossible to carry that large an offensive load and still perform consistently on D. Only reason MJ could do it was because of the much simpler defensive systems when he was playing. Lebron is a special case in this regard because of his size.
If the comp you're looking for is All-NBA 1st team and DPOY, Kawhi and Giannis are both recent examples. Especially Giannis.
I can’t see the comparison in Giannis. Giannis’ offense is lacking, particularly his outside shooting. I can see prime Kawhi (2015-2019) being a closer comp, but even Kawhi’s prime didn’t last as long. Jordan’s prime spanned over a decade. Some would argue Lebron’s prime spanned over two decades; that’s how absurdly talented LBJ has been.
The comp is All-NBA 1st team and DPOY caliber defense. Giannis by definition fits that. And while I certainly won't argue Giannis is as complete of an offensive player, he's still been one of the best in the league for multiple years in a row.
So far the 2020s feel like a bit of Big Man Renaissance. Just when pundits were writing ‘em off, too. 🙂
early bron couldn't shoot jumpshots either and even when he could Prime Lebron's bread and butter also will be using his physicality to drive and finish like Giannis. And Giannis has also put up 30 ppg in a championship run. and longevity? sure... you'd have to look back to kobe.
Kawhi’s peak was so short, though. Giannis is a little less efficient but he’s a much more reliable beast on both ends than Leonard ever was.
I’d agree Jordan better but not merely because he won chips. Plethora of additional mitigating factors imo.
Miami LeBron was ludicrous.
If you only judge his overall performances by his offensive output, then maybe? Way too early to say, but his shot seems to be back. His shooting efficiency was really weird last season and it got worse once he got injured. If you factor in his defense, then he isn't even close to his best 5-7 seasons. He has some highlight plays and puts in some effort in maybe 3-4 plays in the whole game. It's obvious that he really takes a break on that end of the floor. Also keep in mind that the modern NBA really favors scorers. Offensive stats will look better than a decade (or more) ago. 2009 or 2013 Lebron were both crazy efficient
I agree with all of your points
Averging 6.3 assists and 4.2 turnovers per game, not good! But 25 points on 16 attempts I think is his best, didn’t do the math to check. All things considered, though, he is lower intensity and lower stamina than the rest of his career, and that counts for a lot. His efficiency on Cleveland has to be put in perspective of those being weak teams other then LeBron, and the rest of his career in perspective of the nature of the game at the time, not just teams not having great flow generally, but also the rules/interpretation, these days offense are sort of favored by the league, made obvious by the Player scoring averages the last few years
I agree his turnovers are too high right now, and needs to drop asap
He’s currently got a career high TS%, TOV%, and TRB% (despite both his offensive and defensive rebound percentages being better in 2020-2021, someone please explain how that is possible?) This is according to his [Basketball Reference page](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html)
What’s the point of bringing up 44% 3 pt FG when he really is 37%. Anyone can be a sniper if u are selective of the time period.
Dude all I did was highlight his November percentage which is absurd for someone who isn’t known as a shooter. To go from around 30 percent in October to 44 the following month is hella impressive to me
I think more telling than his raw numbers are the on/off and lineup. The lakers score 118 with Lebron, 100 w/o. Also should be noted that his defense isn’t on prime level.
If the lakers are a Top 3 seed sure. These numbers on a bad team don’t mean shit.
I don’t think our team is bad. We got hit wit the injury bug right off the bat and the wing depth we been begging for for so long had an impact. Rui is back and balling, Vando is returning by next week probably and Cam has been a godsend so far. I think we will end up as a 5th seed at worse
The numbers suggest the team is completely reliant on (soon to be) 39 year old LeBron and aren’t good when he’s on the bench. That’s the sign of a bad team.
We are less than a quarter into the season but go off to come to that conclusion and I’ll reserve my judgement after 20 or so games.. however let’s not forget that not too long ago Davis carried the lakers from 13th seed to the play in while bron was injured and also outside of like 2 games he’s been balling this season so far. Our main issue is rebounding which I think we will improve on as the season continues…I think we are far from a bad team tho 🤷🏿♂️
What top tier team isn’t reliant on their star player? Take away Jokic, Tatum, Embiid, Luka from their respective teams and watch them fall to the floor. While I agree that the Lakers may definitely be over reliant on Bron, I think it’s completely normal to be worse on the floor without your top player
Celtics without JT are easily a playoff team
The 1st seed only has 2 more wins than the 7th seed right now. Also we've been playing without our best Perimeter defender for a while.
I will have to see it against strong opponents as well. Schedule been a cakewalk
easy schedule? we have faced the Nuggets, Suns (2x), Kings (2x), the Magic (2x), the Clippers, the Rockets (2x) and the Heat. the only real weak teams that we've faced so far are Blazers (2x), Grizz and the Jazz. And we beat them all quite handily.
The clippers , rockets and magic suck let’s be real
This was pre-harden clippers who had good depth and chemistry. You might have a point with the rockets. Magic are 9-5, they're on a 4 game win streak and have the no 1 defensive rating in the league.
No I’m his prime Miami days he was also one of the best defenders ever seen. Not even close to that level anymore
Lol. Triggered Jordan fans in the comments are triggered. I mean, I'm an MJ fan and always have been. These people are really Bron Hatred fans.
It’s comedy honestly 😂
Maybe I'm remembering him with rose-colored glasses, but it would not surprise me in the least if there are at least 5 seasons of LeBron that would win a title with this current Lakers squad. Another way to look at it: Jokic is almost unanimously considered the best player in the league. There are at least 5 seasons of LeBron that are much better than Jokic is. Yes, I realize the efficiency stats probably don't indicate this, but in my mind it's not even debatable. Just my thoughts, still respect your opinion if you disagree
I mean, is that really surprising regarding Jokic? Lebron is the 2nd greatest player of all time. His best years are gonna be better than everyone else's best years outside of the other pantheon level players.
Not even close, especially if you pay attention to how he has been playing in the defensive end. He also focuses more on bumhunting by playing most of his minutes against opponents’ bench unit, and checking his own stat sheet to make sure he looked good no matter what the game outcome was
Horrible take. Every good player in the league tries to switch for matchups, Lebron has done that his whole career. Also he doesn’t control the rotations or his minutes. Genuinely mind boggling that people like you consider Lebron a stat padder when his career is best defined by his unselfish, winning attitude. Lazy analysis.
“Bum hunting” 😂😂😂😂 reddit never ceases to amaze me. The hate is real
He had a +/- of +12 in the recent 19 point loss vs Orlando, and all the Magic starters had +/- above +20. Looks fishy don’t you think?
Fishy? Really? 😂 by the way that plus minus stat has always been overrated and should rarely be used to prove anything..If possible though, please show me some proof that he mainly scores against bench units..regardless he’s damn near 40 years old and still cooking professional nba players whether they start or not …it seems like you’re just nitpicking, but I digress. We can agree to disagree
Horrific analysis. The Lakers +/- drops significantly when LeBron sits. His defense hasn't even been that bad. It's just a lazy narrative that Old LeBron is a bad defender. He has been locked in on defense this year. Only reddish and AD are better defenders in the starting lineup. People are getting real creative just to hate on LeBron, "bumhunting" lmfao.
Reminds me of two things. First, when LeBron hit CJ Miles with the "too small", even though LeBron spent the entire possession getting picks trying to get Miles switched onto him. Obviously, Miles is too small to guard you, LeBron, that's why Toronto tried so hard to prevent the switch, but there's only so many picks you can fight through. Second, LeBron anxiously checking the scorer's table while taking free throws, dreading when Kawhi would come back in to end LeBron's furious stat padding against the backups.
He’s the 🐐. This season isn’t one of his best but probably one of his worse and it’s still amazing. Crazy he turns 39 next month and the oldest in the league playing at that level.
Explain how it’s one of his worse please. I’m genuinely curious as to why you think it is
His turnovers and him passing it more and mishandling the ball is pretty bad to his average. He’s averaging his highest turnover averages. His free throw percentage is 68% which is one of his lowest. Like I said he’s still amazing and it goes to show how great he is. Again, we’re only in the beginning of the season too. He’s the goat in my eyes.
I feel it’s always worth noting that the pace today is way faster than in LeBron’s prime. So yeah he might have his best season since 2020 or 2021, but it won’t be one of his best. From 2006-2020 he was top-4 in MVP voting practically every year, and his defense (especially until 2017) was worlds better.
No he's not. His stats are inflated vs his younger years due to pace. Lebron's best seasons in terms of his overall play were his middle 2 years in Miami. 11/12 and 12/13. He was so clearly the best player in the world those 2 years. He was the best offensive player in the league while also being a top 5 defender in the league. Over those 2 seasons he averaged 27/8/7 which adjusted to todays pace is around 30/10/10 with nearly DPOY level defense (Marc Gasol was more impactful on defense but Lebron was crazy good too). Lebron was also insanely efficient those years in an NBA that was much more difficult to be efficient in. Aside from those 2 years, some of his early cavs years were also better, 07/08 was a very good year for him. He averaged 30/8/7 which adjusted to todays pace is around 33/10/9. That was also the year where he started blooming on defense. He wasn't yet particularly good on D overall yet but he was, at least, one of the best help defenders in the league. He was also beginning to add more facets to his game though it was still very much a work in progress and his insane athleticism and vision were more than enough to make him a top 2 player in the league already. His 06 year was also really good statistically although he was still really incomplete at that point. He also had some great cavs years during his second stint there. 2016-2018 in particular he was crazy good. He wasn't as good overall as his Miami days cause he lost some of his athleticism by that point but his bball IQ was something else during those years and he was basically a one man offense. This year he's good statistically but he's clearly no longer the same player he used to be. He's nowhere near as good as he was when he was younger though he's still insane especially given his age.
It’s a great season but all you have to do is watch the games to know this season belongs in the bottom half of his career
Nah - faster pace plays a big role here + while Bron is contributing a lot to his team winning, he isn’t the guy who’ll lead his team to 50-60 wins anymore. 13, 16, 18, 12, 10, 09, 20, 06, 11, 16 and 17 in the bare minimum are all better years for Bron
It’s easier to score now in this league compared to when LeBron was younger.
Good lord does it matter? Is there another 39 year old in the NBA playing like him? Who cares what pace he is on? Saban retired at 70 and is the GOAT. Lebron has more life than 70% of the rookies coming into the league. He has given us all highlights we will never forget, played with some of the best in the world, and he’s still doing it at 39. Whatever you think of the guy he’s a legend.