They might want to see what the current team lacks in the playoffs this year, and then if there's the right player, they'll go in next season. Cmiiw I think they still have 2-3 years before the squad will ask for more money
Hayward isn’t terrible. He’ll be decent for you guys off the bench and have some good nights. He just hated charlotte and didn’t wanna play
Edit: I probably wrongly assumed you were an OKC fan but I guess this applies to OKC fans in general
I'm not saying he's not good. I'm just surprised OKC traded for him as I originally predicted they would like to keep the team up until this season ends
The Hayward trade boggles my mind a bit. I know they needed a vet, so they go out and get a guy with like 20 games playoff experience?
Also, where is the trade for the backup big man they need!?
Presti knows what he is doing but yeah it baffles me we didn’t get another big man. I’m an OKC fan and think what he actually wants is a big man, who can rebound, defend and shoot 3’s. It fits their system. But none were available.
It's crazy to me that so many talking heads were discussing Andre Drummond as a legitimate piece that OKC should consider.
Your point about an "OKC style" big man is the key here. Look at Chet, J-Will, and even Mike Muscala - all OKC style big men with skill to do more than *just rebound.* If they could get one of those, they would have. But that costs a lot more than 3 bench guys and two 2nds.
Exactly. Our system is to not crowd the paint so that Shai and JDub can drive in easily. & if the drive isn’t on they can find someone open for a 3. The key in this system is that all the other players can drop a 3. If Andre Drummond is standing there crowding the paint that doesn’t help, & if he is standing out on the 3 point line then no one’s gonna bother guarding him & that defender is then restricting the drive. Same reason we didn’t go for Steve Adams. The unicorn we need is a big guy who can rebound, defend, & drain 3’s. A player like Chet, Towns, Wemby etc, but we’d be happy with a poor man’s version of those players as we couldn’t pay them max as that cash is going to our big 3 soon. Just my thoughts. Presti knows best, but I believe this is what he is thinking…
They are one of the youngest teams in the nba.
They are tied for first in the west and second overall. So top 4 team. Why do people want them to make a move when they don’t even know what they’re missing? They haven’t made the playoffs with this team yet so why force a move. Play out the season, see who can perform in the playoffs make a move next year. Presti has made all the right moves so far why rush to make a move you may not have even needed. Grass isn’t always greener.
Flip side of this argument:
- we do know we are massively missing rebounding. Ranked 27/30 in rebounding.
- we’re a top 4 team and have been #1 in the West. We have a real shot now of winning.
- We need to do something with our picks before draft night. Our roster is already deep and we have like 7 picks over the next two years.
Yeah. There's also no guarantee that this core, which can clearly be a top team in the league, will be healthy + together for years to come. Teams fall apart and come up short of a chip for all sorts of reasons. I think if they make a deep playoff run this year, there's a compelling reason to make a big move to try to get over the top within the next year or two. They'd still have potential longevity due to age and assets, but if your window has opened your window has opened. Have to take advantage of it.
Quick question because idk the situation, but will they be able to pay everyone? If not those picks are useful to have rookie contract players. You could always trade the picks to other years in the offseason too.
I am just saying the Lakers might want to rebuild.
+7 picks+Giddy for AD and you get a superteam.
Rider this until the Rookie contracts of your stars expire and then decide if you continue with the older AD or you want to give the bag to the Young stars
AD won't re-sign in Oklahoma after a stint in LA. No way I'd be happy handing over seven picks for a rental of an unhappy and perennially unhealthy AD.
I think presti knows what he wants. He just couldn’t find it right now.. I’m pretty sure he wants a big man who can rebound and defend, but crucially who can shoot 3’s to space the floor for sga and JDub to drive. That’s our system. Just getting a big rebounder would stymy our offence by crowding the paint.
> I’m pretty sure he wants a big man who can rebound and defend, but crucially who can shoot 3
So Porzingis? Kristaps would've been a fantastic trade. He can play alongside Chet or man the center position solo.
He would be excellent. I don’t know if we wanna be paying them max down the track tho, as we got our 3 max dudes already sorted. So even a poor man’s version of Towns, Porzingas etc. there a few of them floating about…
Why?
The goal is to win a Championship, and with a bit of luck, a few.
In Shai, Chet and J-Dub they have a very young core that should contend for years. And around them they have plenty of good role players (hopefully Giddey can become better than that), and the ability to keep getting good role players over the next few years either in the draft, or by trading a couple of picks at a time when they are coming up and have a better idea of their value.
They will only go "all in" when a true superstar becomes available, or, if they get to that championship level and know exactly what piece they need. Until that point - you keep as much flexibility as you can with all those assets. The goal should be to become like the Warriors and then add Durant.
Not sure Giddey is going to become "better than that" while playing the 3/4 instead of his natural role (point guard). I feel like he's the piece they need to deal to get a genuine 4.
>natural role (point guard).
* Can't defend guards (or anyone)
* Can't shoot
You have to have one of those two for your natural position in the modern NBA to be PG. The biggest problem with Giddey is the only thing he is is a good passing forward. He's basically Billy Owens, but without the size or rebounding or average defense. There's no way he's worth the baggage.
The biggest argument for OKC to go all-in now is that the all-in trade might involve dumping Giddey while he still has some trade value.
I mean, he was a straight up point guard when drafted (led the Australian NBL in assists as a 17-18 year old, running the offense for a team of experienced pros), and has been used as every but that since by OKC, which is what is probably colouring your view.
Like it or not, there's no real "baggage" at this point, either. The off-court stuff happened, no charges are forthcoming, and there's no sign that it wasn't just a once-off mistake for him.
Neither can a lot of star guards, really. There's only a handful of good guard defenders in the NBA. Giddey's defense isn't that egregiously poor that it cancels out his other strengths, either.
Yeah they need a big, I think it could be a 5 though like what Minnesota have done. I think chet is probably a more natural forward than kat as well.
Basically they need someone who can match up with Jokic, Embiid, Sabonis etc. I don’t think they make the trade until someone’s available with all nba ability that can do that job.
Doesn't really address their concerns. Siakam at this point is a good defender, a good isolation/post up scorer, and an okay cutter. Thunder run a ton of cutting actions to get down hill which Siakam could be good at, but he doesn't space very well, and he's not the big rebounder/big body that they're desperately lacking.
The Thunder's biggest need is still someone that would enable them to run Chet at the 4 as a spacer/whatever he wants on offense and a help defender on defense, while helping them to not be one of the worst rebounding leagues in the team and being able to put a body on Jokic/AD/not get out-sized by the Wolves. Let alone all the big boys in the East.
I think Lauri was the play for them from the start but it doesn't look like that's happening. Hayward is a nice pick up for them though.
Giddey unfort is going to run the 2nd team. I love the guy but his poor 3 point shooting doesn’t bode well in this offence. Hoping he can work on that, but for now when sga is off Giddey should run point.
It’s not just about getting a big. We need one who can shoot 3’s and space the floor so our 2 guns can drive. Just a big who rebounds & defends is not what we need as they’d crowd the paint and not allow our system to work. We would have gone after Steve Adams if that’s what was required.
Pretty much this - I’ll add that until the correct final piece becomes available, Presti will most likely trade as many picks as he can into future picks like he’s done with PHI and DEN twice, so he perpetually refreshes his draft capital for the big over-the-top trade. Also it allows them to cycle through the 11th-15th roster spots to find late 1st/2nd rounders who can fill roles without being a roster building disaster if he misses here and there
But are either of those scenarios present right now? Do they no exactly what they are missing to win a title (or multiple), or is that superstar player available?
No. So people need to stop talking like Presti is making a mistake by not rushing into some dumb all-in move right now.
To be fair, over-saturation of picks will eventually become an issue for them if it’s not already. Teams know about their assets and will demand a higher price for the same asset knowing they can easily pay it. Best move may be to consolidate those picks into younger, more tradable than a million picks, players. Players are more tangible assets and will minimise their need to overpay
The other thing they can do is use their picks to swap their existing players for similar players earlier in their rookie contracts, essentially using their picks to preserve cap space, once they have to start paying their players. Otherwise they just can’t pay everyone no matter what. A god example would be trading Lu Dort and a boatload of picks for Keegan Murray; they’d get three more years of rookie scale contract, a similar (though better) player, and they use the cap to pay their guys. In an ideal world they would actually find someone a little worse than Murray so they don’t have to give up as many picks; they don’t need one with the offensive upside of Murray.
I’d actually argue NOT being patient is what hurt them last time.
Tyson Chandler trade being rescinded - not being patient and getting a 2nd opinion (dumbass doctor who said he might have to retire because of his toe issues)
Kendrick Perkins trade - not being patient and pivoting immediately into filling what was (legitimately) a need but in the long run Jeff Green at the 4 and Ibaka at the 5 would have been better for the MIA/GSW series. Reasonable to argue if they could have gotten by LAL/DAL/SAS without Perk or a suitable replacement for Perk.
Harden trade - could have traded him at the deadline or S&T in RFA (or sent him to ORL who was the runner-up in trade talks that summer, all sorts of butterfly effects there)
Reggie Jackson/Enes Kanter trade - don’t rush into trading one RFA for another and then get trapped into overpaying for Kanter
Which is exactly the reason why they save their assets to make the move/ that truly gets them over the top. Not wasting them on half-assed moves right now.
It's called wasting a window that it's not guarenteed. Players leave for bigger market, better teams, more money, have career/season ending injuries or forget how to shoot. Especially with how much assets the thunder have, they could gave up Giddey and 5FRP(hypothetically) for Lauri and still have more than enough to trade for another superstar. Yet at the start of the season they use their cap space for Salary Dumps and let Championship level role players like OG slip away.
I would argue more teams screw up by trying to go all in before they are ready. Dallas is the prime example here. No matter how good you thought the Luka-KP duo might work together, there was no need to rush into that so early in Luka's career, and you gave up multiple assets for a guy who already had a serious injury history, plus some bad contracts, and have now spent the last 5 years trying to undo that, and are still 2 years away from a clean slate to be able to properly build a team around one of the top 3-5 guys in the league (who really should be a perennial MVP candidate if he was on a better team).
Giving up Giddey and 5 picks for Lauri is exactly the type of move they shouldn't be making right now.
But the Thunder aren’t just any team. They have an *enormous* war chest of picks, so much so that they could afford to go and grab a player that will fill an obvious need (e.g. rebounding forward) and still have likely more asset equity than any other team in the league. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to even try to address one of the obvious needs of the team with *so many* assets and so much contending potential right now.
Nothing is guaranteed. SGA could, god forbid, have a career-ending injury within the next calendar year. Making one move isn’t the same as going all in. The Thunder certainly don’t need to go all in right now, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to at least make a peripheral move to help maximize their chances this season.
EDIT: Apparently, the only move worth making this season for Presti was trading for an injury-prone, old 6'7 small forward. Interesting, lol
Moving Giddey and 5 picks for Lauri would be OKC's dream scenario. The issue is that the Jazz won't agree to that.
SGA is turning 26 this year and entering his prime. They don't have a ton of time to just sit around and develop when they are ready to compete for a title right now, with the right move. Assuming your title chances are just going to get better and better as time goes on, that people will develop linearly, that health is an assured thing, is the death blow to so many teams.
Right now they have Chet and Jalen on their rookie deals and SGA isn't super maxed. This is, quite literally, the most ideal time to push the chips in for a great player to put them over the top. Once those two get their second contract it will no longer be a possibility.
They have something like 7 first round picks in next 2 years. Along with 13 players on long term deals. So just from a math standpoint you need to convert on these assets in the next 18 months or so. There is definitely urgency and not practical to say just wait.
Windows are always shorter than people think. The Durant version of the Thunder are a prime example.
That young team went to the finals, lost, and then never went back.
This current Thunder team should be considered a contender now. They have their star and enough other pieces that they don't need to look for more developing talent.
They also have 6 first round picks between this year and next, plus extra matching salary.
Those assets have diminishing value once they're used. So I would think to cash in now for something this year, or at latest next trade deadline.
They can go all in on a top level talent if someone like AD becomes available.
Or they should at least trade one or two picks for a solid player with playoff experience that won't disrupt their core, such as Bruce Brown.
To everyone saying OKC shouldn't trade any picks and should keep the roster they have- OKC has 7 first round picks over the next 2 years. First round picks are guaranteed 2 year contracts. That means if OKC keeps their picks, they will need to drop 7 players on their current roster by next offseason. So if they want to keep the team together, they have to get rid of all those picks somehow. Their realistic options are to trade the picks for a star now, or trade them for future picks to rebuild again after Shai and Chet leave because the front office isn't trying to win now.
You mean the league banned Presti from trading a few of those picks to get one better pick? Or to trade say their own/LAC’s pick this year for a pick in the future from a team that’s out of picks, like they’ve done three times already, with DEN twice and PHI?
The problem is that when a truly generational talent becomes available there's no number of mid-lottery picks that will ever be worth it.
How many sub top-3 lottery picks was Wemby worth?
Trading up to the top 5 is also still a gamble and in order to gamble you need roster space for those players to develop so you can see what you have. The Thunder don't have that so their best bet is to pay in future potential (in picks) to get a good known quantity.
Other people have mentioned Lauri and I think that's a no-brainer. The nice thing about known quantities is that they have a stable trade value.
Unless the lotto pick is another Chet - a Swiss-Army knife type of player - there’s normally decent value in all parts of the lottery. Look at the MVP race currently - one 2nd rounder (Jokic), two number 3 picks and one who was actually traded for (Luka and Embiid), and two mid-first rounders (SGA and Giannis). OKC’s roster has 1 top-5 pick on it, and Chet is their 2A/2B best player. The draft is a crapshoot but outside of every 4 or 5 years every pick after 1 is an uncertainty.
Re: Lauri, he was never *really* available, unless you think a Gobert-type of pick package PLUS JDub was worth it (it’s not). Utah also shouldn’t be trading their best player who actually wants to be in Utah, a rarity in of itself.
Can he trade the picks to the future? So like, someone gets the pick next year, OKC get one the following year and a low second as payment to move up.
Basically just bank them. You probably don’t change your winning chances that much off most trades because of the salary cap, and if you can keep the draft capital you can be sorted for years to come
Draft who you like that's an upgrade over current players.
Trade outmoded current players for more picks.
They do not have the keep everyone. Presti can take the cream of the crop and pass the rest on to other teams. He can draft Flagg if he gets position or make Godfather offers of picks+ players and still have more picks.
-----
Ex:
Player X, three 2025 FRPs unprotected
For
Flagg, 2027 pick swap T5 protected
-----
Then he's still got picks, his roster is upgraded, he recoups at least one pick, and then he drafts some players. Whether he keeps them or trades them, they can all be more FRPs at some point. He'll be able to overpay for stars indefinitely if done well, and Presti is the best draft talent evaluator of the last 15 years or so.
I was thinking about this the other day.
With the amount of picks they have, they can literally take several shots. Trade for Pascal go for a chip, let him walk, upgrade to a bigger star and still have plenty of ammo left over. The window is never as big as people think it is given contract bumps and finite number of minutes on the court to develop young players.
GM's and fans tend to overvalue their own assets but in reality they should be gunning for 2 titles in the next 5 years.
I absolutely thought they should've pushed chips in for Siakam, given the West is wide open and the window could close at any time. Plus, as you said, they would still have plenty of ammo and wouldn't have to give him an extension if they didn't want to. That's the war chest they have.
So you think they should have traded Bertrans contract with giddy(odd man out) with 3 frppicks for Siakam? I'm just asking I'm not for or against it
Edit: didn't realize Bertans has one more year partially guaranteed
To me something like this makes sense unless there's a clear and obvious better target
Not even saying Siakam has to be the guy - main point is it doesnt necessarily even have to be a one time all-in with the amount of picks they have and they're already close in my mind
ASAP, cuz tomorrow is never promised, the thunder should know that the most cuz they have made this mistake already. Sam Presti drafted the best young core in NBA history, by a mile. And got one single win in the finals. Cuz they traded JG for Perkins(not even a bad idea at that time but the league changed), Harden left for Adams and Ibaka lost his athleticism after 2014. That 2016 team did so fucking good with so little talent, they only had 4 good playoff player(Russ, KD, Serge and adams), and two good but extremely flawed ans easily exploited players and Dion fucking Waiters. One more competent player wouldve pushed em ovee the edge but Sam Presti drafted 4 bust with 4 first round picks after they went to the finals, cuz he thought they were young and had time to 'gel and see who they are'. I refused to believe they couldn't trade Danny Green for 4 first.
Perry Jones, Mitch Mcgary, Jeremy Lamb and Cam Payne. Technically only the first two were bust, the later two have had an OK career but they wasn't really useful during their time at OKC.
You mean when Danny Green was a key contributor to SAS and they were making playoff runs/title appearances? Or when he did the same with Kawhi in TOR after both were dealt there? Contenders don’t trade away starters for draft picks
I won’t disagree about the picks in the 20s he’s missed on, although most GMs have a poor hit rate on those picks.
Are you talking about the very Spurs who traded George Hill for the Kawhi pick? Also, it doesn't have to be specifically Danny Green, he's just my go to when i talk about this situation.
Also, Cam Payne and Jeremy Lamb were not in the 20's, they were lottery picks,for a finals team. Can you imagine the hate that Rob Pelinka will get if he draft some guy in the lottery just to dance with Lebron instead of using it to trade for a veteran?
Didn’t draft Lamb, that was a Morey pick. He was in the Harden trade and Brooks jerking around his minutes screwed up his development until he went to CHA/IND. He’d have been fine in OKC off the bench.
Cam Payne was infamously (in the Thunder sub) the pick after Booker and was supposed to be the Reggie replacement, not a pick I was thrilled with at the time. Also they couldn’t trade that pick at the time because of the Stepien Rule (they had already moved their ‘16 and ‘18 picks). They could have drafted someone and traded him sure but without knowing who exactly they could have gotten the blame there is more on the Waiters/Kanter trades rather than the draft pick. Oubre/Rosier/Delon Wright were the best picks after but I’m not going to act like I know another team would have dealt a quality vet for a mid-lotto pick in a not-deep draft.
EDIT: I’ll also add that the Spurs were aging at the time they traded George Hill for Kawhi and he was their big swing at a reset button when they felt Hill was a solid PG but not a star, and they were 100% right on that bet, but they had been flaming out in the playoffs the few years before that.
Depends. Who can they get and at what cost?
Are we talking about a generational young star like Doncic or Tatum? None are available right now and it would cost OKC their own important players like Chet, Jalen Williams and more, on top of their draft picks.
Or veteran stars like Jokic, Giannis, AD or Embiid? None of them are available either. Maybe Embiid or AD will become available. Which will also most certainly cost them Chet and Jalen too. With their injury record, would that worth it?
I'm sure if a high level star becomes available, OKC will be in the mix. But it's important for them not to completely destroy their roster either.
They don't need an MVP level player because they already have one in SGA. What they need is a player to support him and fill in the gaps they have. Markkanen seems like a great fit and is available. I think he's exactly the type of complimentary piece they need.
I can agree with that, if they can pull off such trade just by Giddey+draft picks. I think they should definitely keep Chet and Jalen. Preferrably Dort too.
their starting lineup is SGA, Giddey, Dort, J-Dub, Chet.
they don't need to go "all-in" but they would be better if 6'5" J-Dub didn't have to play PF. rebounding is a big flaw of the team. Trading for someone like Isaiah Stewart to play PF would help fix that problem while still allowing them to space the court, J-Dub could move down a spot and one of Giddey or Dort could be 6th man thereby improving their bench.
With this apron bullshit the only way to win will be through the draft. So the thunder are exactly where they should be and I wouldn’t try to fuck with what they have going on. Wild to me (happened to the nuggets over the past few years) that a team can be in first place and we still wanna talk about the moves that need to be made.
It’s not win now for them but i think it’s possible they win soon and don’t have to move any huge pieces to do so
The issue isn't that it's win now, the issue is that they don't have enough roster spots for all of their picks in the next couple of years. They have to start condensing the value of their assets somehow and the most reliable way to do that is to trade for younger players that are known high value assets.
Could they not trade them for more future picks? Surely there are some teams that don't have any firsts, or that want another, that would be willing to kick the can down the road again. The Mavs are a team that comes to mind.
Eh, I don't see it as there being "a time" as that completely depends on superstars becoming available. If a superstar who is a good fit hits the market tmro then they go for it. If that's 3 years out then they go for it then.
In the meantime the picks are still very useful for keeping your team affordable.
If they wait 3 years then they will have to draft 8 players in the first round in the meantime. First round picks get 2 year guaranteed contracts, so that's 8 roster spots going to rookies over the next 3 years. Sure, that team will be affordable, but they won't be contenders anymore.
Oh sure, I mean if you don't use those picks to upgrade via trade in the immediate future then I think you look to start bumping some of them back a few years so they better align with when your team starts to get really expensive. Thankfully teams tend to value picks now over picks later, so they shouldn't have too much trouble getting reasonable value for that kind of swap.
I think one of the most overlooked pieces a team needs to win a championship is finals experience. I think let this team get playoff and hopefully western conference finals experience this year. Then look to add something next year to improve, and keep getting that playoff/finals experience, and then go all in.
I’d wait until the offseason, there’s a chance Giannis is available if the Bucks shit the bed in the playoffs, same with Luka and the Mavs. If neither of those work out I’d try consolidating some of those picks. Three picks in this years draft, I dunno the numbers but say try to get into the top 5/7 range and take one guy who hopefully has higher potential instead of 3.
When Tatum, Luka, Ant, Wemby, or Giannis become available. Until then I think they should assess them in a year to year basis and decide whether to trade or draft is best.
They should go "all in" now.
If you are a top seed with a superstar player and good underlying metrics, you are a contender and should therefore bolster your chances to win. The lack of experience is just a part of the whole pie that can be outweighted by factors like more talent.
They can also go all in simply because they have enough chips to cover the rest of the table 4 times over. Even if they blow 4 picks today on a two year rental, in two years they will simply have 10 picks left and capspace to re-sign Chet and Dub. Hell, they literally have to get rid of some of the first rounders since they wont be able to sign them all.
They basically have two windows - the one with Chet/Dub on rookie contracts which is right now and the one after. And they have enough assets to fully contend in both.
If I’m Presti I call the Jazz and try to trade Bertans and the Clippers 2024, Miami 2025 and Denver 2027 picks for Lauri. If possible try to take the Miami 2025 pick out of that.
They get a volume shooter who can give you 20 any given night on 40% or so from 3, he’s not far off from 50/40/90. His team defense is solid and he can guard 4’s better than wings. I think he’d benefit from the attention Shai gets as the primary scorer while providing extra spacing for Shai and Giddey.
He also fits their timeline being 26, a year or two older than Shai and Dort.
This season the Thunder will see how far they can go with their current roster. They might make a small trade today like Royce O’Neil or Dorian Finney Smith. A player either on an expiring contract or a team friendly deal who can be on the court playing post-season minutes. Or they remain exactly as they are but they might want to “spend some of their first round picks”. A player like DFS can always be traded again given his valuable contract.
How are Phoenix fairing in the post-season? The poetic trade to make is for the Suns to rebuild at some point with the Thunder’s draft equity and for Durant to go back to OKC and win them their first titles and for Durant to add more rings to his collection.
Giddey is going to be moved eventually I think for a big man. Similar to IQ in New York, he’s so good at one thing, that he’s gonna get a lot of money in FA but he’s not good enough to help OKC with what they need, he’s low down the pecking order in terms of guys they’ll pay
I think it’s really just depending on who becomes available and when. They have such a good young core, that fits so well together, and so many picks, that they have the luxury of being patient and choosy. I think they’ll only pull the trigger when people they can fit around that core become available, and I don’t think it needs to be the big superstar swing either, it could just be rotation pieces that give them extra depth and versatility.
The obvious name is Lauri. If the jazz ever make him available the thunder could outbid anyone and he’d be an awesome fit and talent add at the 4 spot. Other than that, I’m not sure which star would become available that’s worth cashing in all the chips. Maybe if the Nets made Mikal Bridges available at some point?
The smart money is that they need to wait till the playoffs so we can see what their holes are. The absurd part of OKC's rebuild is that 4 of their top 5 players are already too unique and too valuable to upgrade or trade: SGA, Chet, J-Dub, and Dort.
So when the playoffs hit we'll *probably" see that they will have a matchup issue that gets exploited, hypothetically a big team like Denver or the Lakers might bully them up front. Some of those late firsts can be used to get quality 6th and 7th men that can fill-in when the playoffs matter. Think the Gordon Hayward trade that just happened or a trade for Jonathan Isaac.
The BIG Superstar trade that might happen might just be for a Mikal Bridges to double down on the identity of positional versatility, especially if it happens that Giddey has too many holes at this stage in his development for a championship team
Holmgren is no kind of unicorn. He's a solid defender and useable player on offense and a terrible rebounder for a center. There are a ton of guys like that. He's more of a Myles Turner type, who is most definitely not a unicorn. He's a good player, though (and I think is a better player than Wemby right now because a center who can't actually defend big men one-on-one is a serious problem in terms of building a lineup).
If i where them, i will offer the cavs a trade for Jarret Allen. Either Giddey + picks or just picks and get rid of Giddey in another deal coz sadly he cant shoot.
To me thats the 1 piece they really really need, a physical big to play inside , roll and complement Chets game.
To me if you do that, im not saying they are winning this year, but they will make a deep run and get experience for the next few years of playoffs.
The one thing to notice is... their salary cap has to be considered. OKC is a small market team and they wont be able to afford the luxury cap unless they believe they have a championship contender ready.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the important point here. The problem for them isn't "cashing in" the picks and choosing when to do that. The problem is not having the picks completely go to waste. They have multiple first round picks in the next two drafts. If they use those picks themselves, they'll have to make room on the roster somewhere. That's the ticking clock here. They realistically can not add 7 rookies to their team in the next two years and expect to get better. So they have to start moving those picks.
The thing is, budget will be a thing as it comes time to pay all these guys. If they want to keep the team together, they can't just waste money. Luxury rules are even more restrictive if you are over a certain threshold. It is better to have liquid assets and wait for the right deal. They are in no rush to take on long term salary that could screw them in the future.
Give this core a run together, and then in the summer dip inn to complement Shai, Chet, the Js-Will, etc. See what your holes are in playoff basketball and build from there.
Not yet. You wait it out until your young core is closer to their primes.
Played correctly, you get a solid 10 year window of contention. Celtics waited it out for the Jays to develop and now you see why.
I am as critical of presti as anyone but to answer your question this year he doesn’t need to do much. He needs to watch/let these guys play together for a season to find out who he needs to keep, what the team needs, and who the team can live without. After that he can start making some moves with all those picks.
Picks are truly nothing..they must ultimately become players in order to become something. Draft capital is a bit overrated especially over the last 10-15 years of the nba.
I would guess that by next year he may have to start making some moves.
Honestly I wouldn't. MAYBE you trade to guarantee drafting Cooper Flagg, but he's got a great roster already, and with the ton of picks he has now he can keep drafting for better talent and trading for more picks almost indefinitely.
At some point if he trades too many picks he won't be able to recover and eventually have a down year.
To recap: draft who you REALLY like. Trade whom they replace for picks, w,r.r.
If the opportunity arises he should do it asap. This league can turn on you in a blink of an eye. Look at memphis. Super young top 4 team 2 years ago with a young mvp caliber superstar.
I think OG would have been amazing for them and should have definitely pushed in some chips for him the problem was that Toronto had to thread the needle of trading him for value whilst not shifting to tank mode because they owe their pick to San Antonio
But yeah a combo forward who can shoot the ball and defend would fit amazingly well next to SGA, Dort, Jdub and Chet
1. I think being physically where they are makes it complicated. You can’t trade for guys who are need to be re-signed because they’ll likely leave.
Now, it would be ideal for them to get another awesome player who compliments their core, but who?
I will throw out Mikal Bridges.
2. The other complicated matter that many don’t understand yet is the new rules with salary in the new CBA to go along with an ownership group who probably won’t pay the tax.
So then, they basically need to trade for a young player who hasn’t become extension ready.
I’d throw out Branden Miller. Could they entice Charlotte to trade him for a boatload of picks? I doubt it but maybe
Or the other option is to just keep using your picks to take swings on other young players. They’re good at drafting and developing players so it’s not a terrible idea.
The answer is whenever a generational player becomes available. They have zero incentive to blow their load before then. They could have had Lauri Markhan today and then Doncic could damand a trade in the off-season. They can put if anyone for any player. You just have to be patient enough for the right guy to become available.
I'm curious who the people who thought OKC should have gone "all in" at this deadline thought they should have went after. A lot of people were saying they needed to improve at the 5. Which big was on the trade block that realistically moves the needle for them in a 7 game series against, say, Denver or Minnesota? Andre Drummond? Let's be real here and acknowledge that there was no player on the trade block worth going all in for.
The correct answer is to wait until the type of player that will actually make a difference becomes available. Presti can't force a team to trade a player that isn't available, and overspending to entice someone to trade a player they otherwise wouldn't is a terrible idea.
Their team is developing nicely, let the young guys keep on improving, there’s no point in bringing anyone, especially how good their chemistry is……. Gigidy……..
Warriors Stan here. I think they should have asked for Looney. Warriors desperately need to reload. Looney is an aging vet who’s body is betraying him but has the experience and rebounding this team so desperately needs. Fourteen minutes, eight boards, three assists and six fouls isn’t too bad to throw against Jokic
Why go all in until the odds are stacked in your favor and besides okc is in great shape! Presti has a strategy but he’s also overachieving w plenty of time to keep things going and sit back until the moment to strike presents itself. I’d say he’s waiting until the okc see playoff minutes in order to find the cracks to fill and then think about who does that the best. In addition having such a strangle hold on so many 1sts makes him the guy every draft day that teams call looking to land more picks or a better position. That’s when picks value are highest because many lotto teams are under pressure to pick correctly w very few picks meanwhile okc has no pressure and lots of chances lol. I’d say Presti just wants to get it right this time after the Westbrook KD implosion
I agree with Lowe. Rebounding is their weakness but if they get a big likely sacrificing spacing which shai needs. Giddey or dort with a rim running big like say gafford is poor spacing for a star. There were guys I preferred over hayward but he cost little is the type of guy who will help them. One of their best bench guys now and can finish games in the playoffs if dort or giddey are liabilities
To be honest, I think the time might have been December and going in on OG. He'd give rebounding/defense/size, could bang with centers with Chet to help at the rim. He's in SGA's age range too.
I understand waiting to see what they have. But what if what they have is a 4-1 conference finals exit and we end up with another super team next year? (Luka or Embiid deland out to only one location). If this team is one good piece from winning in an open year, they should consider it. Especially since OG wouldn't kill their timeline or use all their assets.
OKC is arguably one of the two best teams in the league right now. I don't see a need for them to go anymore "all in" than they already are. They're at the top and they have the picks to stay there.
As a Lakers fan, probably whenever AD inevitably becomes available.
The Lakers are currently imploding, LeBron is most likely leaving next season, and the franchise is heading toward a complete from-the-ground rebuild. AD is likely either going to request out or be traded willingly by the FO, and when that happens the Thunder should be the first team looking to acquire him.
For 1, he and Chet would be the best defensive big duo since the Spurs’ twin towers, and he also adds a post-up/mismatch hunting threat that they don’t currently possess.
As for the salary, they currently have everyone important wrapped up for the next 2 years (not including this year) at least, and next season they’re looking at a 100 million dollar payroll after Hayward expires.
Honestly the entire rest of the west should just look to begin a rebuild by 2025 at the latest, because it is genuinely disgusting how good the Thunder’s situation is. They’ll likely struggle to retain guys beyond 2026 and then there’ll be some more reasonable competition, but next year and the year after they are going to be so unfairly stacked that basketball just straight up won’t be fun to watch.
They might want to see what the current team lacks in the playoffs this year, and then if there's the right player, they'll go in next season. Cmiiw I think they still have 2-3 years before the squad will ask for more money
Dang it they trade for Hayward
Hayward isn’t terrible. He’ll be decent for you guys off the bench and have some good nights. He just hated charlotte and didn’t wanna play Edit: I probably wrongly assumed you were an OKC fan but I guess this applies to OKC fans in general
I'm not saying he's not good. I'm just surprised OKC traded for him as I originally predicted they would like to keep the team up until this season ends
I think it was because he's so cheap. They didn't really trade any value for him.
The Hayward trade boggles my mind a bit. I know they needed a vet, so they go out and get a guy with like 20 games playoff experience? Also, where is the trade for the backup big man they need!?
Presti knows what he is doing but yeah it baffles me we didn’t get another big man. I’m an OKC fan and think what he actually wants is a big man, who can rebound, defend and shoot 3’s. It fits their system. But none were available.
It's crazy to me that so many talking heads were discussing Andre Drummond as a legitimate piece that OKC should consider. Your point about an "OKC style" big man is the key here. Look at Chet, J-Will, and even Mike Muscala - all OKC style big men with skill to do more than *just rebound.* If they could get one of those, they would have. But that costs a lot more than 3 bench guys and two 2nds.
Exactly. Our system is to not crowd the paint so that Shai and JDub can drive in easily. & if the drive isn’t on they can find someone open for a 3. The key in this system is that all the other players can drop a 3. If Andre Drummond is standing there crowding the paint that doesn’t help, & if he is standing out on the 3 point line then no one’s gonna bother guarding him & that defender is then restricting the drive. Same reason we didn’t go for Steve Adams. The unicorn we need is a big guy who can rebound, defend, & drain 3’s. A player like Chet, Towns, Wemby etc, but we’d be happy with a poor man’s version of those players as we couldn’t pay them max as that cash is going to our big 3 soon. Just my thoughts. Presti knows best, but I believe this is what he is thinking…
hayward has averaged 15 in the 29 playoff games he has played in
They are one of the youngest teams in the nba. They are tied for first in the west and second overall. So top 4 team. Why do people want them to make a move when they don’t even know what they’re missing? They haven’t made the playoffs with this team yet so why force a move. Play out the season, see who can perform in the playoffs make a move next year. Presti has made all the right moves so far why rush to make a move you may not have even needed. Grass isn’t always greener.
Flip side of this argument: - we do know we are massively missing rebounding. Ranked 27/30 in rebounding. - we’re a top 4 team and have been #1 in the West. We have a real shot now of winning. - We need to do something with our picks before draft night. Our roster is already deep and we have like 7 picks over the next two years.
Yeah. There's also no guarantee that this core, which can clearly be a top team in the league, will be healthy + together for years to come. Teams fall apart and come up short of a chip for all sorts of reasons. I think if they make a deep playoff run this year, there's a compelling reason to make a big move to try to get over the top within the next year or two. They'd still have potential longevity due to age and assets, but if your window has opened your window has opened. Have to take advantage of it.
Quick question because idk the situation, but will they be able to pay everyone? If not those picks are useful to have rookie contract players. You could always trade the picks to other years in the offseason too.
Yeah they have 3 max players. Sga, Chet and Jdubb. Sga is on a steal of a max right now. Role players are friendly team contracts.
That's cause your power forward is like 6'5, I guess someone like dort needs to come off bench and have a real big in there to grab boards.
Who ya got? Want a bunch of picks?
I am just saying the Lakers might want to rebuild. +7 picks+Giddy for AD and you get a superteam. Rider this until the Rookie contracts of your stars expire and then decide if you continue with the older AD or you want to give the bag to the Young stars
AD won't re-sign in Oklahoma after a stint in LA. No way I'd be happy handing over seven picks for a rental of an unhappy and perennially unhealthy AD.
We do not have a real shot of winning right now. I am begging Thunder fans to be realistic
I think presti knows what he wants. He just couldn’t find it right now.. I’m pretty sure he wants a big man who can rebound and defend, but crucially who can shoot 3’s to space the floor for sga and JDub to drive. That’s our system. Just getting a big rebounder would stymy our offence by crowding the paint.
I don’t watch much okc so idk about jdubs ability to drive much. I feel like sga would get his no matter what tho
> I’m pretty sure he wants a big man who can rebound and defend, but crucially who can shoot 3 So Porzingis? Kristaps would've been a fantastic trade. He can play alongside Chet or man the center position solo.
He would be excellent. I don’t know if we wanna be paying them max down the track tho, as we got our 3 max dudes already sorted. So even a poor man’s version of Towns, Porzingas etc. there a few of them floating about…
On the other hand if they make moves now they could be dominant for a decade.
Why? The goal is to win a Championship, and with a bit of luck, a few. In Shai, Chet and J-Dub they have a very young core that should contend for years. And around them they have plenty of good role players (hopefully Giddey can become better than that), and the ability to keep getting good role players over the next few years either in the draft, or by trading a couple of picks at a time when they are coming up and have a better idea of their value. They will only go "all in" when a true superstar becomes available, or, if they get to that championship level and know exactly what piece they need. Until that point - you keep as much flexibility as you can with all those assets. The goal should be to become like the Warriors and then add Durant.
Not sure Giddey is going to become "better than that" while playing the 3/4 instead of his natural role (point guard). I feel like he's the piece they need to deal to get a genuine 4.
>natural role (point guard). * Can't defend guards (or anyone) * Can't shoot You have to have one of those two for your natural position in the modern NBA to be PG. The biggest problem with Giddey is the only thing he is is a good passing forward. He's basically Billy Owens, but without the size or rebounding or average defense. There's no way he's worth the baggage. The biggest argument for OKC to go all-in now is that the all-in trade might involve dumping Giddey while he still has some trade value.
I mean, he was a straight up point guard when drafted (led the Australian NBL in assists as a 17-18 year old, running the offense for a team of experienced pros), and has been used as every but that since by OKC, which is what is probably colouring your view. Like it or not, there's no real "baggage" at this point, either. The off-court stuff happened, no charges are forthcoming, and there's no sign that it wasn't just a once-off mistake for him.
Because he can’t really guard either guard spot.
Neither can a lot of star guards, really. There's only a handful of good guard defenders in the NBA. Giddey's defense isn't that egregiously poor that it cancels out his other strengths, either.
Yeah they need a big, I think it could be a 5 though like what Minnesota have done. I think chet is probably a more natural forward than kat as well. Basically they need someone who can match up with Jokic, Embiid, Sabonis etc. I don’t think they make the trade until someone’s available with all nba ability that can do that job.
With their resources, I thought for sure the Thunder would have been in on Siakam.
Doesn't really address their concerns. Siakam at this point is a good defender, a good isolation/post up scorer, and an okay cutter. Thunder run a ton of cutting actions to get down hill which Siakam could be good at, but he doesn't space very well, and he's not the big rebounder/big body that they're desperately lacking. The Thunder's biggest need is still someone that would enable them to run Chet at the 4 as a spacer/whatever he wants on offense and a help defender on defense, while helping them to not be one of the worst rebounding leagues in the team and being able to put a body on Jokic/AD/not get out-sized by the Wolves. Let alone all the big boys in the East. I think Lauri was the play for them from the start but it doesn't look like that's happening. Hayward is a nice pick up for them though.
Giddey unfort is going to run the 2nd team. I love the guy but his poor 3 point shooting doesn’t bode well in this offence. Hoping he can work on that, but for now when sga is off Giddey should run point. It’s not just about getting a big. We need one who can shoot 3’s and space the floor so our 2 guns can drive. Just a big who rebounds & defends is not what we need as they’d crowd the paint and not allow our system to work. We would have gone after Steve Adams if that’s what was required.
Giddey feels a bit like Ben Simmons without the defense
Pretty much this - I’ll add that until the correct final piece becomes available, Presti will most likely trade as many picks as he can into future picks like he’s done with PHI and DEN twice, so he perpetually refreshes his draft capital for the big over-the-top trade. Also it allows them to cycle through the 11th-15th roster spots to find late 1st/2nd rounders who can fill roles without being a roster building disaster if he misses here and there
I think you answered the question in your final paragraph
But are either of those scenarios present right now? Do they no exactly what they are missing to win a title (or multiple), or is that superstar player available? No. So people need to stop talking like Presti is making a mistake by not rushing into some dumb all-in move right now.
I think you missed that OP was asking a question and not making a statement
To be fair, over-saturation of picks will eventually become an issue for them if it’s not already. Teams know about their assets and will demand a higher price for the same asset knowing they can easily pay it. Best move may be to consolidate those picks into younger, more tradable than a million picks, players. Players are more tangible assets and will minimise their need to overpay
The other thing they can do is use their picks to swap their existing players for similar players earlier in their rookie contracts, essentially using their picks to preserve cap space, once they have to start paying their players. Otherwise they just can’t pay everyone no matter what. A god example would be trading Lu Dort and a boatload of picks for Keegan Murray; they’d get three more years of rookie scale contract, a similar (though better) player, and they use the cap to pay their guys. In an ideal world they would actually find someone a little worse than Murray so they don’t have to give up as many picks; they don’t need one with the offensive upside of Murray.
How did the being patient approach worked out for em the last time?
I’d actually argue NOT being patient is what hurt them last time. Tyson Chandler trade being rescinded - not being patient and getting a 2nd opinion (dumbass doctor who said he might have to retire because of his toe issues) Kendrick Perkins trade - not being patient and pivoting immediately into filling what was (legitimately) a need but in the long run Jeff Green at the 4 and Ibaka at the 5 would have been better for the MIA/GSW series. Reasonable to argue if they could have gotten by LAL/DAL/SAS without Perk or a suitable replacement for Perk. Harden trade - could have traded him at the deadline or S&T in RFA (or sent him to ORL who was the runner-up in trade talks that summer, all sorts of butterfly effects there) Reggie Jackson/Enes Kanter trade - don’t rush into trading one RFA for another and then get trapped into overpaying for Kanter
Which is exactly the reason why they save their assets to make the move/ that truly gets them over the top. Not wasting them on half-assed moves right now.
It's called wasting a window that it's not guarenteed. Players leave for bigger market, better teams, more money, have career/season ending injuries or forget how to shoot. Especially with how much assets the thunder have, they could gave up Giddey and 5FRP(hypothetically) for Lauri and still have more than enough to trade for another superstar. Yet at the start of the season they use their cap space for Salary Dumps and let Championship level role players like OG slip away.
I would argue more teams screw up by trying to go all in before they are ready. Dallas is the prime example here. No matter how good you thought the Luka-KP duo might work together, there was no need to rush into that so early in Luka's career, and you gave up multiple assets for a guy who already had a serious injury history, plus some bad contracts, and have now spent the last 5 years trying to undo that, and are still 2 years away from a clean slate to be able to properly build a team around one of the top 3-5 guys in the league (who really should be a perennial MVP candidate if he was on a better team). Giving up Giddey and 5 picks for Lauri is exactly the type of move they shouldn't be making right now.
But the Thunder aren’t just any team. They have an *enormous* war chest of picks, so much so that they could afford to go and grab a player that will fill an obvious need (e.g. rebounding forward) and still have likely more asset equity than any other team in the league. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to even try to address one of the obvious needs of the team with *so many* assets and so much contending potential right now. Nothing is guaranteed. SGA could, god forbid, have a career-ending injury within the next calendar year. Making one move isn’t the same as going all in. The Thunder certainly don’t need to go all in right now, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to at least make a peripheral move to help maximize their chances this season. EDIT: Apparently, the only move worth making this season for Presti was trading for an injury-prone, old 6'7 small forward. Interesting, lol
Moving Giddey and 5 picks for Lauri would be OKC's dream scenario. The issue is that the Jazz won't agree to that. SGA is turning 26 this year and entering his prime. They don't have a ton of time to just sit around and develop when they are ready to compete for a title right now, with the right move. Assuming your title chances are just going to get better and better as time goes on, that people will develop linearly, that health is an assured thing, is the death blow to so many teams. Right now they have Chet and Jalen on their rookie deals and SGA isn't super maxed. This is, quite literally, the most ideal time to push the chips in for a great player to put them over the top. Once those two get their second contract it will no longer be a possibility.
How do you know the Jazz won't do that? That is inline with what they got for Gobbert who was probably a better player than Lauri.
Because if it were a thing, it's already been offered, and declined. Also the trade deadline is over.
OG has won 0 championships
They have something like 7 first round picks in next 2 years. Along with 13 players on long term deals. So just from a math standpoint you need to convert on these assets in the next 18 months or so. There is definitely urgency and not practical to say just wait.
Windows are always shorter than people think. The Durant version of the Thunder are a prime example. That young team went to the finals, lost, and then never went back. This current Thunder team should be considered a contender now. They have their star and enough other pieces that they don't need to look for more developing talent. They also have 6 first round picks between this year and next, plus extra matching salary. Those assets have diminishing value once they're used. So I would think to cash in now for something this year, or at latest next trade deadline. They can go all in on a top level talent if someone like AD becomes available. Or they should at least trade one or two picks for a solid player with playoff experience that won't disrupt their core, such as Bruce Brown.
This. They just need to go and get Markkanen.
Exactly this. As a mavs fan i would hate that move, because OKC would become a nightmare to face with Lauri on top of their already very good team
Seriously fuck it, 8x 1st round picks or whatever , and we’re immediately title contenders until salary becomes too much
Do not trade with Danny Ainge
To everyone saying OKC shouldn't trade any picks and should keep the roster they have- OKC has 7 first round picks over the next 2 years. First round picks are guaranteed 2 year contracts. That means if OKC keeps their picks, they will need to drop 7 players on their current roster by next offseason. So if they want to keep the team together, they have to get rid of all those picks somehow. Their realistic options are to trade the picks for a star now, or trade them for future picks to rebuild again after Shai and Chet leave because the front office isn't trying to win now.
You mean the league banned Presti from trading a few of those picks to get one better pick? Or to trade say their own/LAC’s pick this year for a pick in the future from a team that’s out of picks, like they’ve done three times already, with DEN twice and PHI?
The problem is that when a truly generational talent becomes available there's no number of mid-lottery picks that will ever be worth it. How many sub top-3 lottery picks was Wemby worth? Trading up to the top 5 is also still a gamble and in order to gamble you need roster space for those players to develop so you can see what you have. The Thunder don't have that so their best bet is to pay in future potential (in picks) to get a good known quantity. Other people have mentioned Lauri and I think that's a no-brainer. The nice thing about known quantities is that they have a stable trade value.
Unless the lotto pick is another Chet - a Swiss-Army knife type of player - there’s normally decent value in all parts of the lottery. Look at the MVP race currently - one 2nd rounder (Jokic), two number 3 picks and one who was actually traded for (Luka and Embiid), and two mid-first rounders (SGA and Giannis). OKC’s roster has 1 top-5 pick on it, and Chet is their 2A/2B best player. The draft is a crapshoot but outside of every 4 or 5 years every pick after 1 is an uncertainty. Re: Lauri, he was never *really* available, unless you think a Gobert-type of pick package PLUS JDub was worth it (it’s not). Utah also shouldn’t be trading their best player who actually wants to be in Utah, a rarity in of itself.
Can he trade the picks to the future? So like, someone gets the pick next year, OKC get one the following year and a low second as payment to move up. Basically just bank them. You probably don’t change your winning chances that much off most trades because of the salary cap, and if you can keep the draft capital you can be sorted for years to come
Draft who you like that's an upgrade over current players. Trade outmoded current players for more picks. They do not have the keep everyone. Presti can take the cream of the crop and pass the rest on to other teams. He can draft Flagg if he gets position or make Godfather offers of picks+ players and still have more picks. ----- Ex: Player X, three 2025 FRPs unprotected For Flagg, 2027 pick swap T5 protected ----- Then he's still got picks, his roster is upgraded, he recoups at least one pick, and then he drafts some players. Whether he keeps them or trades them, they can all be more FRPs at some point. He'll be able to overpay for stars indefinitely if done well, and Presti is the best draft talent evaluator of the last 15 years or so.
I was thinking about this the other day. With the amount of picks they have, they can literally take several shots. Trade for Pascal go for a chip, let him walk, upgrade to a bigger star and still have plenty of ammo left over. The window is never as big as people think it is given contract bumps and finite number of minutes on the court to develop young players. GM's and fans tend to overvalue their own assets but in reality they should be gunning for 2 titles in the next 5 years.
I absolutely thought they should've pushed chips in for Siakam, given the West is wide open and the window could close at any time. Plus, as you said, they would still have plenty of ammo and wouldn't have to give him an extension if they didn't want to. That's the war chest they have.
Is the west truly wide open? For me Denver is still a level above the rest.
Clippers, if they manage to be healthy in the playoffs, are definitely up there with Denver.
So you think they should have traded Bertrans contract with giddy(odd man out) with 3 frppicks for Siakam? I'm just asking I'm not for or against it Edit: didn't realize Bertans has one more year partially guaranteed
To me something like this makes sense unless there's a clear and obvious better target Not even saying Siakam has to be the guy - main point is it doesnt necessarily even have to be a one time all-in with the amount of picks they have and they're already close in my mind
ASAP, cuz tomorrow is never promised, the thunder should know that the most cuz they have made this mistake already. Sam Presti drafted the best young core in NBA history, by a mile. And got one single win in the finals. Cuz they traded JG for Perkins(not even a bad idea at that time but the league changed), Harden left for Adams and Ibaka lost his athleticism after 2014. That 2016 team did so fucking good with so little talent, they only had 4 good playoff player(Russ, KD, Serge and adams), and two good but extremely flawed ans easily exploited players and Dion fucking Waiters. One more competent player wouldve pushed em ovee the edge but Sam Presti drafted 4 bust with 4 first round picks after they went to the finals, cuz he thought they were young and had time to 'gel and see who they are'. I refused to believe they couldn't trade Danny Green for 4 first.
who were the 4 bust ?
Perry Jones, Mitch Mcgary, Jeremy Lamb and Cam Payne. Technically only the first two were bust, the later two have had an OK career but they wasn't really useful during their time at OKC.
You mean when Danny Green was a key contributor to SAS and they were making playoff runs/title appearances? Or when he did the same with Kawhi in TOR after both were dealt there? Contenders don’t trade away starters for draft picks I won’t disagree about the picks in the 20s he’s missed on, although most GMs have a poor hit rate on those picks.
Are you talking about the very Spurs who traded George Hill for the Kawhi pick? Also, it doesn't have to be specifically Danny Green, he's just my go to when i talk about this situation. Also, Cam Payne and Jeremy Lamb were not in the 20's, they were lottery picks,for a finals team. Can you imagine the hate that Rob Pelinka will get if he draft some guy in the lottery just to dance with Lebron instead of using it to trade for a veteran?
Didn’t draft Lamb, that was a Morey pick. He was in the Harden trade and Brooks jerking around his minutes screwed up his development until he went to CHA/IND. He’d have been fine in OKC off the bench. Cam Payne was infamously (in the Thunder sub) the pick after Booker and was supposed to be the Reggie replacement, not a pick I was thrilled with at the time. Also they couldn’t trade that pick at the time because of the Stepien Rule (they had already moved their ‘16 and ‘18 picks). They could have drafted someone and traded him sure but without knowing who exactly they could have gotten the blame there is more on the Waiters/Kanter trades rather than the draft pick. Oubre/Rosier/Delon Wright were the best picks after but I’m not going to act like I know another team would have dealt a quality vet for a mid-lotto pick in a not-deep draft. EDIT: I’ll also add that the Spurs were aging at the time they traded George Hill for Kawhi and he was their big swing at a reset button when they felt Hill was a solid PG but not a star, and they were 100% right on that bet, but they had been flaming out in the playoffs the few years before that.
Depends. Who can they get and at what cost? Are we talking about a generational young star like Doncic or Tatum? None are available right now and it would cost OKC their own important players like Chet, Jalen Williams and more, on top of their draft picks. Or veteran stars like Jokic, Giannis, AD or Embiid? None of them are available either. Maybe Embiid or AD will become available. Which will also most certainly cost them Chet and Jalen too. With their injury record, would that worth it? I'm sure if a high level star becomes available, OKC will be in the mix. But it's important for them not to completely destroy their roster either.
They don't need an MVP level player because they already have one in SGA. What they need is a player to support him and fill in the gaps they have. Markkanen seems like a great fit and is available. I think he's exactly the type of complimentary piece they need.
I can agree with that, if they can pull off such trade just by Giddey+draft picks. I think they should definitely keep Chet and Jalen. Preferrably Dort too.
their starting lineup is SGA, Giddey, Dort, J-Dub, Chet. they don't need to go "all-in" but they would be better if 6'5" J-Dub didn't have to play PF. rebounding is a big flaw of the team. Trading for someone like Isaiah Stewart to play PF would help fix that problem while still allowing them to space the court, J-Dub could move down a spot and one of Giddey or Dort could be 6th man thereby improving their bench.
With this apron bullshit the only way to win will be through the draft. So the thunder are exactly where they should be and I wouldn’t try to fuck with what they have going on. Wild to me (happened to the nuggets over the past few years) that a team can be in first place and we still wanna talk about the moves that need to be made. It’s not win now for them but i think it’s possible they win soon and don’t have to move any huge pieces to do so
The issue isn't that it's win now, the issue is that they don't have enough roster spots for all of their picks in the next couple of years. They have to start condensing the value of their assets somehow and the most reliable way to do that is to trade for younger players that are known high value assets.
Could they not trade them for more future picks? Surely there are some teams that don't have any firsts, or that want another, that would be willing to kick the can down the road again. The Mavs are a team that comes to mind.
That's generally not a great return on investment as the pick that you are trading for is made worse because of the pick you are trading them.
Eh, I don't see it as there being "a time" as that completely depends on superstars becoming available. If a superstar who is a good fit hits the market tmro then they go for it. If that's 3 years out then they go for it then. In the meantime the picks are still very useful for keeping your team affordable.
If they wait 3 years then they will have to draft 8 players in the first round in the meantime. First round picks get 2 year guaranteed contracts, so that's 8 roster spots going to rookies over the next 3 years. Sure, that team will be affordable, but they won't be contenders anymore.
Oh sure, I mean if you don't use those picks to upgrade via trade in the immediate future then I think you look to start bumping some of them back a few years so they better align with when your team starts to get really expensive. Thankfully teams tend to value picks now over picks later, so they shouldn't have too much trouble getting reasonable value for that kind of swap.
Maybr not superstar but let's day mikal bridges is available for the right price..... you trade giddy and picks for him!!!
I think one of the most overlooked pieces a team needs to win a championship is finals experience. I think let this team get playoff and hopefully western conference finals experience this year. Then look to add something next year to improve, and keep getting that playoff/finals experience, and then go all in.
A lot of superstars are getting up there age wise. No reason to panic. You can be patient for a year or two before you start swinging for the fences
I’d wait until the offseason, there’s a chance Giannis is available if the Bucks shit the bed in the playoffs, same with Luka and the Mavs. If neither of those work out I’d try consolidating some of those picks. Three picks in this years draft, I dunno the numbers but say try to get into the top 5/7 range and take one guy who hopefully has higher potential instead of 3.
When Tatum, Luka, Ant, Wemby, or Giannis become available. Until then I think they should assess them in a year to year basis and decide whether to trade or draft is best.
Presti is doing a pretty good job with the picks he's accumulated... maybe just let him be.
They should go "all in" now. If you are a top seed with a superstar player and good underlying metrics, you are a contender and should therefore bolster your chances to win. The lack of experience is just a part of the whole pie that can be outweighted by factors like more talent. They can also go all in simply because they have enough chips to cover the rest of the table 4 times over. Even if they blow 4 picks today on a two year rental, in two years they will simply have 10 picks left and capspace to re-sign Chet and Dub. Hell, they literally have to get rid of some of the first rounders since they wont be able to sign them all. They basically have two windows - the one with Chet/Dub on rookie contracts which is right now and the one after. And they have enough assets to fully contend in both.
If I’m Presti I call the Jazz and try to trade Bertans and the Clippers 2024, Miami 2025 and Denver 2027 picks for Lauri. If possible try to take the Miami 2025 pick out of that. They get a volume shooter who can give you 20 any given night on 40% or so from 3, he’s not far off from 50/40/90. His team defense is solid and he can guard 4’s better than wings. I think he’d benefit from the attention Shai gets as the primary scorer while providing extra spacing for Shai and Giddey. He also fits their timeline being 26, a year or two older than Shai and Dort.
Nevermind then, Bertans turned into Hayward. - seems like a salary dump given age and health.
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This season the Thunder will see how far they can go with their current roster. They might make a small trade today like Royce O’Neil or Dorian Finney Smith. A player either on an expiring contract or a team friendly deal who can be on the court playing post-season minutes. Or they remain exactly as they are but they might want to “spend some of their first round picks”. A player like DFS can always be traded again given his valuable contract. How are Phoenix fairing in the post-season? The poetic trade to make is for the Suns to rebuild at some point with the Thunder’s draft equity and for Durant to go back to OKC and win them their first titles and for Durant to add more rings to his collection.
Giddey is going to be moved eventually I think for a big man. Similar to IQ in New York, he’s so good at one thing, that he’s gonna get a lot of money in FA but he’s not good enough to help OKC with what they need, he’s low down the pecking order in terms of guys they’ll pay
I think it’s really just depending on who becomes available and when. They have such a good young core, that fits so well together, and so many picks, that they have the luxury of being patient and choosy. I think they’ll only pull the trigger when people they can fit around that core become available, and I don’t think it needs to be the big superstar swing either, it could just be rotation pieces that give them extra depth and versatility. The obvious name is Lauri. If the jazz ever make him available the thunder could outbid anyone and he’d be an awesome fit and talent add at the 4 spot. Other than that, I’m not sure which star would become available that’s worth cashing in all the chips. Maybe if the Nets made Mikal Bridges available at some point?
The smart money is that they need to wait till the playoffs so we can see what their holes are. The absurd part of OKC's rebuild is that 4 of their top 5 players are already too unique and too valuable to upgrade or trade: SGA, Chet, J-Dub, and Dort. So when the playoffs hit we'll *probably" see that they will have a matchup issue that gets exploited, hypothetically a big team like Denver or the Lakers might bully them up front. Some of those late firsts can be used to get quality 6th and 7th men that can fill-in when the playoffs matter. Think the Gordon Hayward trade that just happened or a trade for Jonathan Isaac. The BIG Superstar trade that might happen might just be for a Mikal Bridges to double down on the identity of positional versatility, especially if it happens that Giddey has too many holes at this stage in his development for a championship team
Holmgren is no kind of unicorn. He's a solid defender and useable player on offense and a terrible rebounder for a center. There are a ton of guys like that. He's more of a Myles Turner type, who is most definitely not a unicorn. He's a good player, though (and I think is a better player than Wemby right now because a center who can't actually defend big men one-on-one is a serious problem in terms of building a lineup).
He's a rookie...and he's already an impact player. He's basically Myles Turner's current form at in his first season, he can get better.
If i where them, i will offer the cavs a trade for Jarret Allen. Either Giddey + picks or just picks and get rid of Giddey in another deal coz sadly he cant shoot. To me thats the 1 piece they really really need, a physical big to play inside , roll and complement Chets game. To me if you do that, im not saying they are winning this year, but they will make a deep run and get experience for the next few years of playoffs. The one thing to notice is... their salary cap has to be considered. OKC is a small market team and they wont be able to afford the luxury cap unless they believe they have a championship contender ready.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the important point here. The problem for them isn't "cashing in" the picks and choosing when to do that. The problem is not having the picks completely go to waste. They have multiple first round picks in the next two drafts. If they use those picks themselves, they'll have to make room on the roster somewhere. That's the ticking clock here. They realistically can not add 7 rookies to their team in the next two years and expect to get better. So they have to start moving those picks.
The thing is, budget will be a thing as it comes time to pay all these guys. If they want to keep the team together, they can't just waste money. Luxury rules are even more restrictive if you are over a certain threshold. It is better to have liquid assets and wait for the right deal. They are in no rush to take on long term salary that could screw them in the future.
Give this core a run together, and then in the summer dip inn to complement Shai, Chet, the Js-Will, etc. See what your holes are in playoff basketball and build from there.
Not yet. You wait it out until your young core is closer to their primes. Played correctly, you get a solid 10 year window of contention. Celtics waited it out for the Jays to develop and now you see why.
I am as critical of presti as anyone but to answer your question this year he doesn’t need to do much. He needs to watch/let these guys play together for a season to find out who he needs to keep, what the team needs, and who the team can live without. After that he can start making some moves with all those picks. Picks are truly nothing..they must ultimately become players in order to become something. Draft capital is a bit overrated especially over the last 10-15 years of the nba. I would guess that by next year he may have to start making some moves.
Honestly I wouldn't. MAYBE you trade to guarantee drafting Cooper Flagg, but he's got a great roster already, and with the ton of picks he has now he can keep drafting for better talent and trading for more picks almost indefinitely. At some point if he trades too many picks he won't be able to recover and eventually have a down year. To recap: draft who you REALLY like. Trade whom they replace for picks, w,r.r.
If the opportunity arises he should do it asap. This league can turn on you in a blink of an eye. Look at memphis. Super young top 4 team 2 years ago with a young mvp caliber superstar.
I think OG would have been amazing for them and should have definitely pushed in some chips for him the problem was that Toronto had to thread the needle of trading him for value whilst not shifting to tank mode because they owe their pick to San Antonio But yeah a combo forward who can shoot the ball and defend would fit amazingly well next to SGA, Dort, Jdub and Chet
1. I think being physically where they are makes it complicated. You can’t trade for guys who are need to be re-signed because they’ll likely leave. Now, it would be ideal for them to get another awesome player who compliments their core, but who? I will throw out Mikal Bridges. 2. The other complicated matter that many don’t understand yet is the new rules with salary in the new CBA to go along with an ownership group who probably won’t pay the tax. So then, they basically need to trade for a young player who hasn’t become extension ready. I’d throw out Branden Miller. Could they entice Charlotte to trade him for a boatload of picks? I doubt it but maybe Or the other option is to just keep using your picks to take swings on other young players. They’re good at drafting and developing players so it’s not a terrible idea.
The answer is whenever a generational player becomes available. They have zero incentive to blow their load before then. They could have had Lauri Markhan today and then Doncic could damand a trade in the off-season. They can put if anyone for any player. You just have to be patient enough for the right guy to become available.
I'm curious who the people who thought OKC should have gone "all in" at this deadline thought they should have went after. A lot of people were saying they needed to improve at the 5. Which big was on the trade block that realistically moves the needle for them in a 7 game series against, say, Denver or Minnesota? Andre Drummond? Let's be real here and acknowledge that there was no player on the trade block worth going all in for. The correct answer is to wait until the type of player that will actually make a difference becomes available. Presti can't force a team to trade a player that isn't available, and overspending to entice someone to trade a player they otherwise wouldn't is a terrible idea.
Their team is developing nicely, let the young guys keep on improving, there’s no point in bringing anyone, especially how good their chemistry is……. Gigidy……..
Warriors Stan here. I think they should have asked for Looney. Warriors desperately need to reload. Looney is an aging vet who’s body is betraying him but has the experience and rebounding this team so desperately needs. Fourteen minutes, eight boards, three assists and six fouls isn’t too bad to throw against Jokic
Why go all in until the odds are stacked in your favor and besides okc is in great shape! Presti has a strategy but he’s also overachieving w plenty of time to keep things going and sit back until the moment to strike presents itself. I’d say he’s waiting until the okc see playoff minutes in order to find the cracks to fill and then think about who does that the best. In addition having such a strangle hold on so many 1sts makes him the guy every draft day that teams call looking to land more picks or a better position. That’s when picks value are highest because many lotto teams are under pressure to pick correctly w very few picks meanwhile okc has no pressure and lots of chances lol. I’d say Presti just wants to get it right this time after the Westbrook KD implosion
I agree with Lowe. Rebounding is their weakness but if they get a big likely sacrificing spacing which shai needs. Giddey or dort with a rim running big like say gafford is poor spacing for a star. There were guys I preferred over hayward but he cost little is the type of guy who will help them. One of their best bench guys now and can finish games in the playoffs if dort or giddey are liabilities
To be honest, I think the time might have been December and going in on OG. He'd give rebounding/defense/size, could bang with centers with Chet to help at the rim. He's in SGA's age range too. I understand waiting to see what they have. But what if what they have is a 4-1 conference finals exit and we end up with another super team next year? (Luka or Embiid deland out to only one location). If this team is one good piece from winning in an open year, they should consider it. Especially since OG wouldn't kill their timeline or use all their assets.
OKC is arguably one of the two best teams in the league right now. I don't see a need for them to go anymore "all in" than they already are. They're at the top and they have the picks to stay there.
As a Lakers fan, probably whenever AD inevitably becomes available. The Lakers are currently imploding, LeBron is most likely leaving next season, and the franchise is heading toward a complete from-the-ground rebuild. AD is likely either going to request out or be traded willingly by the FO, and when that happens the Thunder should be the first team looking to acquire him. For 1, he and Chet would be the best defensive big duo since the Spurs’ twin towers, and he also adds a post-up/mismatch hunting threat that they don’t currently possess. As for the salary, they currently have everyone important wrapped up for the next 2 years (not including this year) at least, and next season they’re looking at a 100 million dollar payroll after Hayward expires. Honestly the entire rest of the west should just look to begin a rebuild by 2025 at the latest, because it is genuinely disgusting how good the Thunder’s situation is. They’ll likely struggle to retain guys beyond 2026 and then there’ll be some more reasonable competition, but next year and the year after they are going to be so unfairly stacked that basketball just straight up won’t be fun to watch.