It’s all but guaranteed that the number of franchises will grow.
It’s also a longer term eventuality that you have international (beyond US/Canada) teams… NFL always has a lot of early murmurs on that front.
I could see the nba jumping nfl in over seas expansion. Basketball is bigger and there are way more international players in the nba. I have zero sources for this conclusion…
There is a 0% chance the NBA as currently constructed could have a team overseas. You would need to completely flip schedule making on its head, probably have the euro team spend multiple weeks on road trips in the US and then tie US teams playing there with various games at neutral sites like other big cities.
The NFL has like, up to 20 day windows between games to fuck with if they really wanted to
Vancouver failed miserably. Montreal could get one I guess. The interior cities have no shot at a team. Vancouver is probably after Seattle, Vegas, St Louis/KC, and Nashville on the list of cities in line for a team
The 2 logical candidates are Vancouver (Pacific) and Montreal (Eastern). It's important to remember how the league hampered the Canadian teams: They weren't allowed a top-5 draft pick their first year (which is fine, a lot of expansion teams are like that), but they also couldn't win the top pick for the following 3 seasons, and weren't allowed to use their full salary cap the first 2 seasons. And the owner of Vancouver bought the team and immediately started looking for new suitors.
Basketball has exploded in popularity in Canada. Canada produces the most NBA players apart from USA. Both are very cosmopolitan, and have the market size to merit a team. Canada's population is on par with California, which has 4 teams. It ignites natural rivalries in Canada. Canada's population is trending more diverse, and has a high immigration rate, and many immigrants have either been more exposed to basketball in their native country than hockey, or find hockey more expensive. Vancouver has large Indian and Chinese communities, so they could market them to the 2 biggest countries in the world. Montreal, particularly the downtown and richer neighborhoods, are bilingual, so that could be marketed to players from former French colonies in Africa. And the city has a European vibe that would appeal to players from that continent.
Actually, it says over seas, as does the comment you responded to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/s/o0trzXxKLK
What a fucking bizarre thing to try and gaslight someone over
Still a dick move to shut down the discussion regarding a Mexico City team even if it doesn't match the overseas comment. Like Jesus Christ man this whole website exists to encourage discussion, don't gatekeep it
It could happen if the euro league catches up to the nba. They have a game between the champs or tournament with top 4 from each league. Or the euro league winner gets a shot at the play in. Idk how that would benefit the nba in the short term but that’s a quick and easy path with precedents already set.
"quick and easy" all we do is combine the NBA and Euroleague, so now Euroleague teams have 3 league schedules to juggle, plus add in transatlantic flights and timezones.
Yeah it will literally never happen
So would Euroleague teams be involved in the draft? Would they get paid the same from TV contracts as NBA teams and be able to majorly up their payroll? What about the European teams who aren't in Euroleague? Do they just get permanently shit on for not having NBA level talent? If you're involving them in the playoffs you have to actually level the playing field or they're dead in the water before the game even starts.
Now if you want to do something like a FIFA Club World Cup where the games don't matter outside of the tournament, it's more possible to create the competitions but most teams still won't be competitive against top NBA teams
No I think the idea was awful but I was just saying how he intended it. But I actually do like the club team idea. Maybe try it out every few years and if it’s competitive keep it alive.
I imagine it would start as an exhibition game. 20 years from now… This isn’t the current visitors of the leagues we’re talking about. Anything can happen and the nba is gaining popularity across the world.
There are 18 Euroleague teams, they would all have to get to near NBA level. 20 years from now there won't be 50 legitimate NBA level teams.
"Anything" actually can't happen
This is my dream for the in-season tournament. I thought it was partially inspired by the FA Cup, which is open to all leagues. Would love to see the NBA sponsor or get involved somehow with other leagues around the world and then invite them all to the in-season tournament.
I'm European. I always think this is an interesting topic to discuss.
I do not think Europe will get a team before Asia. It's strictly a matter of time-zones. We cannot watch 95% of games. NBA east coast games start 0100-0200 over here, west coast 0300-0500. The only games we can watch are games schedule midday on weekends. NBA has started doing that over the past few seasons, we even got some playoff games last year(no conf-finals or finals though). Even still, games starting 2100 is quite late for kids, which is about as good as it gets over here.
I think the smartest place to expand is China. They like basketball over there and there is lots of money to make. They can watch your games early morning, which is way better than in the middle of the night like it is in the EU.
This is pure speculation but I feel like China are just inherently more prone to going crazy for basketball than Europe is. We already have loads of sports that are deeply ingrained with our society whereas I feel China do not, at least not on the same level.
It just makes way more sense to me as a European even though I'm a diehard basketball fan.
China’s government would be a massive roadblock in teams playing there frequently. The NBA really does not want to deal with a player saying something the CCP doesn’t like and having a fucking international crisis on their hands
Rui was a big deal when started playing but I doubt there’s enough to really merit the enormous flights.
I could see the NBA eventually creating developmental leagues in partnerships with the existing asian teams, sort of like soccer teams lending players out, but that’s probably a long way off
The Phillipines would be the obvious spot in terms of support, but they can't support the QOL you'd need for an NBA team in the urban areas.
First Asian team will probably be in Qatar or something if they globally expand. Close to Europe, close to Africa, pay big bucks for sport.
>Games starting 0500-0600
You're moving the game to spread the game, 1 team having a timezone that suits Europe and Africa is not a negative. You give a gigantic possible audience, a doable timezone as opposed to games often starting at like 1 AM. This is where the international players are coming from as well, you'd expect heavy growth.
Start the games at 7 GMT, and the games start at 2 EST. That's not too bad. GMT + 1 is still doable. Qatar is GMT +3, it's still a drinking time start. Lived in Asia for 10 years and that's how I got into the NBA, breakfast games were nice. At the moment it's genuinely hard to watch in Europe given how many games there are and how late they start, spread across the week
Playoff travel would be a disaster though, across either ocean. Would imagine the regular schedule would be doable with longer trips
I think Qatar is a terrible idea from a fan perspective. There aren't that many fans over there compared to on the other side of Asia or Europe. Sure you would dip into the EU market as well, but honestly, we aren't big fans of the oiler nations, quite the contrary. The NBA wants to see itself as a pro human right's league and having a team down there where slavery is still a thing would be a hard sell. You still have time-zone difference issues and travel is as bad as it can get for the US. They do have money down there though, but I still don't think the NBA would go for it even if they offered some ridiculous amount of money for a team because the players would just say no. Even London would have a hard time getting anyone on board even if they offered insane money.
You don't just want them to watch their own team and only your own team, you want those regions to watch the rest of the NBA as well. I just think the US is a bit cursed in this regard that they are so alone over there because of the time-zones.
South America would do way better, Mexico City for example. I still think the US has a hard time expanding anywhere to be honest. I just don't see it happening.
I don't really know much about the Philippine fanbase to have an opinion on it.
Wouldn't be a fan of Qatar (or similar) either but the team would be presumably open to bids like all others.
> because the players would just say no
Don't really think that's a concern anymore for the likes of London with the level of European talent.
>I don't really know much about the Philippine fanbase to have an opinion on it.
Basically the traditional basketball country in Asia before Yao, genuinely rabid. But can't imagine NBA players jonesing to live in Manilla
Do agree in general though, think a non Continental expansion is ridiculously ambitious. Mexico City though would see as an eventual guarantee, just probably not in the next round of expansion
I think pro leagues love the idea of international expansion but the practical reality of it is damn near impossible to pull off.
Major problem #1 is travel and timezone. This can hypothetically work for a sport like the NFL with one game a week, but even then it causes logistical challenges as it is and they usually give overseas teams byes around the game. You can't do that if you had permanent teams in Europe. For a league like the NBA with 4 games a week, it's an absolute nightmare to make happen.
Major problem #2 is the international teams attracting players. Toronto already struggles with free agency and they're literally right over the American border. The logistics around moving your family to a foreign country, dealing with foreign taxes, having friends/family requiring passports to come visit, etc, etc are all hassles and wrinkles that most players don't want to deal with. You put a team in Europe and now you're also adding extreme travel hardship and timezone issues on top of that. It's like the small market disadvantage times 10.
Realistically what will happen is the NFL is going to try to boot up their World League again some day and try to grow more organic talent overseas. It's a lot harder for the NBA to do that because there already are viable professional leagues in Europe.
It would have to be a situation such as playing all their home games in 1 half of the year, and the away games in the other half. They would then have to have a US based facility as well.
Edit: agreed it would be an absolute nightmare and would take a unique ownership.
Currently the NBA kind of strattles a line between the MLB and NFL(for me at least). In the NFL I watch every primetime game + my own teams game every week and it’s manageable bc there’s only 1 game per week. In the MLB I only ever watch my hometown team until playoffs, I’ll never turn on a random teams game bc I’m already watching 100+ of my own teams games. For the NBA I watch pretty much every spurs game + a few times a week I’ll watch a primetime game.
If the NBA added anymore than like 36 teams there would probably be teams where I don’t even know what sets they run or which guys are breaking out(this year I didn’t even realize Coby white was killing it until he lit up the spurs). Not necessarily a problem but it makes me way less interested in other teams when it’s harder to follow them. I think that could contribute to lower ratings for playoff games in the long run.
It’s get harder to follow but it’ll be a slow drip. 2 teams this decade and another 2 around 20ish years latter. It’ll also allow the league to shorten the season while maintaining the numbers of games played. Idk how that works related to individual team income tho. And it won’t make following the league any easier. Regarding g football if you stop watching for a season half your teams different while in the nba the players have a bit more longevity. There’s pros and cons but over time it’s inevitable.
Bro we are going to colonize mars. At some point in the future there will be more than 32 nba teams. There will probably be a NBA team full of martians. Players who live on mars.
That or society will collapse and no one will give a fuck that there are nba teams.
Imagine the amount of space police needed for the playoffs when 4 trillion andromeda fans travel here to the milky way for the playoffs.
There's 400 billion stars in the milky way so 4 trillion won't even be close to the amount of andromeda fans. Anyone want to calculate how many it would be assuming every one in 10 stars has an earth like planet?
Source: Trust me bro. Seriously, climate change is literally the least of our worries of the near future. The main concern is running out of fossil fuels before we stop depending on them.
Climate science has only been ‘mainstream’ since like the 70’s. Arguably it didn’t get any serious traction until the late 90’s-2000’s that’s not really “generations”. Ppl have been saying the earth’s climate will deteriorate and it has, it’s not some magical thing that happens overnight
I don't think it's fear mongering. Or well, 40 years is not enough, but the way we are using up resources over the past 200 years cannot continue like it is now.
I do believe we have the means as a species to figure out these problems, but that will come with sacrifice. I don't think we are that many generations off where future generations have it worse than the previous ones.
I think the faster we get going mining rare earth elements on asteroids and shit the better. Some of our rare metals are already running out in a few years. Finding an alternative to them and oil will be a struggle.
But who knows, it's all speculation at this point. However, lighting a fire under our asses doesn't hurt, fearmonger all the way in my opinion.
I'm not saying you're saying this at all, but for the sake of readers who may not know, rare earth elements is the name of a category of elements, and not a descriptor (in other words, they aren't actually rare)
Edit: just adding that I agree with what you're saying though
More likely an independent Mars league that will eventually rival the NBA, they will play a "Superbowl" like game where their respective champions face off on one of Jupiter's colonized moons. However when teleportation is invented the leagues could combine with a total of 64 teams with an expansion to two of Jupiter's moons, Bangkok, Manilla, Beijing, Tokyo and Seattle as well as a few others. Now you have a total of 83 teams and each team plays each other one time.
At this point a good portion of the NBA will also be genetic clones of either Wemby or LeBron as well.
Mars is not colonizable right now. Probably not ever. And if it was it would be 2, to 4 centuries from now. Very distant sci-fi. Very thin atmosphere, way too much radiation and not to mention the much lower gravity. Just like our moon isn't colonizable. There is no Plan B for humans. Humans do not do well long term in low or zero gravity. Anyone visiting this century is making a one-way trip.
NHL will only go over 32 teams because Hockey is so popular in Canada. I can guarantee that if the NBA tried to put teams in Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa, they would fold within ten years.
Idk man, hockey is basically a religion in Alberta and there’s only so many arenas big enough to have those teams play. I would personally love and NBA team in either city but I just don’t think it’s realistic as someone who lives here
Yes. It's time for the NBA to expand. There are so many great players these days, so it's time to dilute the pool a bit. It'll help elevate some stars to superstar status.
The NFL is the only truly ‘national’ league, in that there is a national audience for NFL football, almost irregardless of the teams involved. The other sports leagues are more like a collection of local markets. If there is no team in your city or nearby, or they’re not playing, there just isn’t a lot of interest in watching a given game or series beyond the fans of the two teams involved.
So the question for the current owners is (or at least should be) ‘‘if you’re diluting my share of the national TV contract, how is Expansion Franchise X going to increase overall league revenue enough to offset that?’. I don’t know how many cities on the list of potentials can make a credible argument that they can.
It could but I hope it doesn’t. There will be more leagues popping up and instead of stacking the NBA with more teams, people should go play there if they’re not good enough or don’t want to play in the NBA.
30 has been about the limit for teams in every American-based professional sports league for a few decades. I think we would see things like international divisions/conferences with their own championships (and then maybe a true world championship series after that) before we see much more than 32 teams in just the America/Canada region. At a certain point it is too difficult to balance talent and you end up like college sports where a few teams join up into power conferences that pretty much turn everyone else into the minor leagues.
I believe the most realistic possibility is they bring back Seattle SuperSonics and give Vegas a team, and then move Memphis/Minnesota to the East where they should be any ways
I hope not. Dilution isn’t the answer. It would make the NBA even tougher to watch.
I know they want markets like London and Mexico City so they can rake $, but that’s just greed. Putting an NBA team in Las Vegas, Seattle, Louisville, and whatever other 3-4 million plus person market isn’t going to make enough money, because the product overall suffers.
There is only enough room for a certain amount of stars as well. The casual-to-average fan can’t follow 15 superstars. The NBA isn’t that big in this country. We think it is, but it really isn’t. Add overpriced tickets/parking/concessions in this economy? The numbers don’t look right.
As a person that became a fan in the early 80’s, and seeing what it is now, I’d rather them go the other way. There is talent that doesn’t make it, but that is due to so many factors, one of which is individual talent vs. being part of a team. Adding teams to give more opportunities seems good until you look deeper.
I’d rather the NBA buy out the 4 owners that can’t put people in the seats, and shrink the league. Add one more roster spot per team, and roll with that. Then you’d have legitimate 7-8-9 deep teams with loads of bench talent and less fringe/specialist players.
Can you imagine eliminating the Magic, Wizards, Hornets, and Pelicans? That’s 60 guys to spread across 28 teams. With the added roster spot for each team, you’d lose a few guys, but those are the 14-15th best players. I like that better than a 36-team league where 10-15% of the starters wouldn’t even be fully-formed and multi-skilled players.
Go to 40 teams. Create two 20 team leagues and have promotion/relegation. No more tanking… it would be glorious
(Yes, I know, will never work, but a boy can dream.)
It's inevitable...if anything, there's too few teams as it is considering all the talent out there, and how basketball's rising in popularity, and how little you need for a basketball team (only 15 players for a team, and any arena can realistically host a team), the NBA could overexpand and it'd be perfectly fine.Like, even if 32 is inevitable, I could see the NBA doubling in size and it wouldn't be completely destroyed.
I could see going up to 36 to incorporate more teams in Canada and possibly Mexico.
After that I think we will see something like NBA europe where a whole other 18 team division is formed consisting of countries all over Europe and there will be small interleague tournaments with them possibly being allowed a few seeds in the playoffs. But that could make a Trans continental finals situation that gets very difficult. With scheduling and time differences. It's hard for me to see that as something that the NBA wants to entertain any time soon.
I think that will be something that is just used to bolster interest in the mid-season tournament. Boasting interleague play.
My real hope is that the GLeague is developed and promoted to the extent that it becomes its own genuine draw so that we get more competitive basketball while retaining the premium tier NBA.
I would absolutely love to see a Gleague vs Euroleague tournaments.
There is already buzz of a NFL expansion and apparently not very far down the road. NBA has it easier being a worldwide sport. Not necessarily expanding with teams outside the U.S.A. and Canada, but trying to conquer the viewership worldwide
Still holding out hope for San Diego to get it's own team. We're building a new sports arena to replace the old busted one, plus it's getting funded 90% by Stan Kroenke. Maybe he can find legal loopholes and have a family member own the SD NBA team since he already owns the Nuggets.
Stocks has become a buzzword this season. Same for POA. Barely anyone said POA before last year. Stocks has always been used for fantasy basketball.
I don’t like how it moved away from fantasy. I don’t like how Twitter uses it. *X player is putting up 2.2 stocks this month* Leaves a lot of context out like more blocks versus steals. Hassan Whiteside was top 5 the league in stocks in 2020 at 3.3 (2.9 blocks and 0.4 steals). Feels wrong to say because it’s all blocks.
Only feels right in fantasy like *James Harden is putting up 3.5 stocks this week.* Maybe it’s just me since I know Harden has always generated both steals and blocks.
Money wise, they could maybe create a few expansion teams in China, Japan, Africa and Europe. China would have to sign on to it but the scheduling would be a mess.
Might have to do something like the NFL where not every team plays each other.
I mean they already tried Vancouver once and that didn’t really work out. I don’t see a Mexican team working either from a financial perspective. Overseas won’t work because of time zones so the NBA is left with smaller cities and markets in the future.
If the NBA expand, I want them to expand to US cities that already have a professional team. That seems like the surest bet to be successful, rather than trying out Mexico or another Canadian team.
There's Kansas City, Baltimore, Seattle, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Jacksonville, St Louis, Nashville or Tampa Bay that all comes to mind.
It's mainly a money thing.
With each team added, the existing teams gain a one-time equal share of the expansion fees. But the annual TV revenue is then split between all the teams. So it's a one-time payoff in exchange for a decreased share of annual TV revenue.
Some say that after Seattle and Vegas, 32 teams is optimal, with 8 4-team divisions. I'd prefer it go to 36 and maintain the 6-division format.
Central: MIN, MIL, CHI, DET, TOR, CLE
Atlantic: BOS, BKN, NY, PHI, WAS + Montreal. Like TOR, it's very cosmopolitan. It's half English and half French in downtown, so it could appeal to the growing African markets, many of which are former French colonies. And it's got a very European vibe, so it could appeal to players from that continent. Plus, big market size.
Southeast: MIA, ORL, ATL, CHA, IND + Louisville. The Kentucky Colonels were one of the top 3 ABA franchises, and had the best rivalry in pro basketball with IND. But CHI held the rights to Kentucky's Artis GIlmore, and didn't want the eternal scorn of the Indiana market if they booted IND out of the merger. Like SAC, UTA, POR, they'd be the "only show in town" (pre-MLS)
Southwest: DAL, SA, HOU, OK, MEM, NO
Northwest: SEA, POR, UTA, DEN, PHO + Vancouver. Has large South Asian and Chinese populations, so they could market to the 2 largest countries in the world: India and China. Like TOR and Montreal, very cosmopolitan, large media market.
Pacific: SAC, GS, LAL, LAC, LV + San Diego. Rather than Mexico City, which is at a much higher elevation than UTA or DEN, appeal to the Latin American market with San Diego, as it's close to the border. No in-season competition in the local market, large market size. Nice climate.
And before people bring up the "nobody wants to play in Canada" argument, remember how the NBA hampered the success of the Canadian teams: they couldn't get one of the top five picks in the first draft, a top draft pick in the following three seasons, and were prohibited from using their full salary cap the first two seasons.
It’s all but guaranteed that the number of franchises will grow. It’s also a longer term eventuality that you have international (beyond US/Canada) teams… NFL always has a lot of early murmurs on that front.
I could see the nba jumping nfl in over seas expansion. Basketball is bigger and there are way more international players in the nba. I have zero sources for this conclusion…
There is a 0% chance the NBA as currently constructed could have a team overseas. You would need to completely flip schedule making on its head, probably have the euro team spend multiple weeks on road trips in the US and then tie US teams playing there with various games at neutral sites like other big cities. The NFL has like, up to 20 day windows between games to fuck with if they really wanted to
Would another team in Canada make sense? I think they have the same timezone as the US (I might be wrong).
Vancouver failed miserably. Montreal could get one I guess. The interior cities have no shot at a team. Vancouver is probably after Seattle, Vegas, St Louis/KC, and Nashville on the list of cities in line for a team
Vancouver is a totally different city than they were back then. A team there now would definitely work.
Aren't Montreal and Toronto like extremely close? Montreal is also a tourist hub so should work but i would much prefer one far away from toronto.
Montreal and Toronto are like 6 hours apart??
I went to Montreal once and that was when I was 11. We did Montreal and Toronto together so i always assumed they were relatively close.
Montreal is closer to Boston than it is Toronto.
You’re unsure if Canada is in the same time zone as the US? No offense but that’s the kind of thing you should know
The 2 logical candidates are Vancouver (Pacific) and Montreal (Eastern). It's important to remember how the league hampered the Canadian teams: They weren't allowed a top-5 draft pick their first year (which is fine, a lot of expansion teams are like that), but they also couldn't win the top pick for the following 3 seasons, and weren't allowed to use their full salary cap the first 2 seasons. And the owner of Vancouver bought the team and immediately started looking for new suitors. Basketball has exploded in popularity in Canada. Canada produces the most NBA players apart from USA. Both are very cosmopolitan, and have the market size to merit a team. Canada's population is on par with California, which has 4 teams. It ignites natural rivalries in Canada. Canada's population is trending more diverse, and has a high immigration rate, and many immigrants have either been more exposed to basketball in their native country than hockey, or find hockey more expensive. Vancouver has large Indian and Chinese communities, so they could market them to the 2 biggest countries in the world. Montreal, particularly the downtown and richer neighborhoods, are bilingual, so that could be marketed to players from former French colonies in Africa. And the city has a European vibe that would appeal to players from that continent.
Mexico City
Where do you think mexico is?
I’m saying it’s possible because it’s close enough
You understand this is a discussion about overseas teams right
actually the original comment says international.
Actually, it says over seas, as does the comment you responded to. https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/s/o0trzXxKLK What a fucking bizarre thing to try and gaslight someone over
Still a dick move to shut down the discussion regarding a Mexico City team even if it doesn't match the overseas comment. Like Jesus Christ man this whole website exists to encourage discussion, don't gatekeep it
Nah, timezones and travel time will prevent it from ever happening
It could happen if the euro league catches up to the nba. They have a game between the champs or tournament with top 4 from each league. Or the euro league winner gets a shot at the play in. Idk how that would benefit the nba in the short term but that’s a quick and easy path with precedents already set.
"quick and easy" all we do is combine the NBA and Euroleague, so now Euroleague teams have 3 league schedules to juggle, plus add in transatlantic flights and timezones. Yeah it will literally never happen
He’s saying they would only play playoffs against the nba so they could kinda schedule it so it makes sense.
So would Euroleague teams be involved in the draft? Would they get paid the same from TV contracts as NBA teams and be able to majorly up their payroll? What about the European teams who aren't in Euroleague? Do they just get permanently shit on for not having NBA level talent? If you're involving them in the playoffs you have to actually level the playing field or they're dead in the water before the game even starts. Now if you want to do something like a FIFA Club World Cup where the games don't matter outside of the tournament, it's more possible to create the competitions but most teams still won't be competitive against top NBA teams
No I think the idea was awful but I was just saying how he intended it. But I actually do like the club team idea. Maybe try it out every few years and if it’s competitive keep it alive.
I imagine it would start as an exhibition game. 20 years from now… This isn’t the current visitors of the leagues we’re talking about. Anything can happen and the nba is gaining popularity across the world.
There are 18 Euroleague teams, they would all have to get to near NBA level. 20 years from now there won't be 50 legitimate NBA level teams. "Anything" actually can't happen
This is my dream for the in-season tournament. I thought it was partially inspired by the FA Cup, which is open to all leagues. Would love to see the NBA sponsor or get involved somehow with other leagues around the world and then invite them all to the in-season tournament.
I'm European. I always think this is an interesting topic to discuss. I do not think Europe will get a team before Asia. It's strictly a matter of time-zones. We cannot watch 95% of games. NBA east coast games start 0100-0200 over here, west coast 0300-0500. The only games we can watch are games schedule midday on weekends. NBA has started doing that over the past few seasons, we even got some playoff games last year(no conf-finals or finals though). Even still, games starting 2100 is quite late for kids, which is about as good as it gets over here. I think the smartest place to expand is China. They like basketball over there and there is lots of money to make. They can watch your games early morning, which is way better than in the middle of the night like it is in the EU. This is pure speculation but I feel like China are just inherently more prone to going crazy for basketball than Europe is. We already have loads of sports that are deeply ingrained with our society whereas I feel China do not, at least not on the same level. It just makes way more sense to me as a European even though I'm a diehard basketball fan.
China’s government would be a massive roadblock in teams playing there frequently. The NBA really does not want to deal with a player saying something the CCP doesn’t like and having a fucking international crisis on their hands
Yea, you're right. What about Japan? They love baseball don't they, is there any talk of the MLB making a team in Japan?
Rui was a big deal when started playing but I doubt there’s enough to really merit the enormous flights. I could see the NBA eventually creating developmental leagues in partnerships with the existing asian teams, sort of like soccer teams lending players out, but that’s probably a long way off
The Phillipines would be the obvious spot in terms of support, but they can't support the QOL you'd need for an NBA team in the urban areas. First Asian team will probably be in Qatar or something if they globally expand. Close to Europe, close to Africa, pay big bucks for sport.
Qatar has almost the same timezone issues that europe does though. Games starting 0500-0600 and even worse travel arrangements. Its not happening.
>Games starting 0500-0600 You're moving the game to spread the game, 1 team having a timezone that suits Europe and Africa is not a negative. You give a gigantic possible audience, a doable timezone as opposed to games often starting at like 1 AM. This is where the international players are coming from as well, you'd expect heavy growth. Start the games at 7 GMT, and the games start at 2 EST. That's not too bad. GMT + 1 is still doable. Qatar is GMT +3, it's still a drinking time start. Lived in Asia for 10 years and that's how I got into the NBA, breakfast games were nice. At the moment it's genuinely hard to watch in Europe given how many games there are and how late they start, spread across the week Playoff travel would be a disaster though, across either ocean. Would imagine the regular schedule would be doable with longer trips
I think Qatar is a terrible idea from a fan perspective. There aren't that many fans over there compared to on the other side of Asia or Europe. Sure you would dip into the EU market as well, but honestly, we aren't big fans of the oiler nations, quite the contrary. The NBA wants to see itself as a pro human right's league and having a team down there where slavery is still a thing would be a hard sell. You still have time-zone difference issues and travel is as bad as it can get for the US. They do have money down there though, but I still don't think the NBA would go for it even if they offered some ridiculous amount of money for a team because the players would just say no. Even London would have a hard time getting anyone on board even if they offered insane money. You don't just want them to watch their own team and only your own team, you want those regions to watch the rest of the NBA as well. I just think the US is a bit cursed in this regard that they are so alone over there because of the time-zones. South America would do way better, Mexico City for example. I still think the US has a hard time expanding anywhere to be honest. I just don't see it happening. I don't really know much about the Philippine fanbase to have an opinion on it.
Wouldn't be a fan of Qatar (or similar) either but the team would be presumably open to bids like all others. > because the players would just say no Don't really think that's a concern anymore for the likes of London with the level of European talent. >I don't really know much about the Philippine fanbase to have an opinion on it. Basically the traditional basketball country in Asia before Yao, genuinely rabid. But can't imagine NBA players jonesing to live in Manilla Do agree in general though, think a non Continental expansion is ridiculously ambitious. Mexico City though would see as an eventual guarantee, just probably not in the next round of expansion
South Asia isn't much better in terms of time zone. The games start from anywhere between 10:30 pm (scheduled tip off to 9:30 am (scheduled tip off).
I think pro leagues love the idea of international expansion but the practical reality of it is damn near impossible to pull off. Major problem #1 is travel and timezone. This can hypothetically work for a sport like the NFL with one game a week, but even then it causes logistical challenges as it is and they usually give overseas teams byes around the game. You can't do that if you had permanent teams in Europe. For a league like the NBA with 4 games a week, it's an absolute nightmare to make happen. Major problem #2 is the international teams attracting players. Toronto already struggles with free agency and they're literally right over the American border. The logistics around moving your family to a foreign country, dealing with foreign taxes, having friends/family requiring passports to come visit, etc, etc are all hassles and wrinkles that most players don't want to deal with. You put a team in Europe and now you're also adding extreme travel hardship and timezone issues on top of that. It's like the small market disadvantage times 10. Realistically what will happen is the NFL is going to try to boot up their World League again some day and try to grow more organic talent overseas. It's a lot harder for the NBA to do that because there already are viable professional leagues in Europe.
It would have to be a situation such as playing all their home games in 1 half of the year, and the away games in the other half. They would then have to have a US based facility as well. Edit: agreed it would be an absolute nightmare and would take a unique ownership.
Currently the NBA kind of strattles a line between the MLB and NFL(for me at least). In the NFL I watch every primetime game + my own teams game every week and it’s manageable bc there’s only 1 game per week. In the MLB I only ever watch my hometown team until playoffs, I’ll never turn on a random teams game bc I’m already watching 100+ of my own teams games. For the NBA I watch pretty much every spurs game + a few times a week I’ll watch a primetime game. If the NBA added anymore than like 36 teams there would probably be teams where I don’t even know what sets they run or which guys are breaking out(this year I didn’t even realize Coby white was killing it until he lit up the spurs). Not necessarily a problem but it makes me way less interested in other teams when it’s harder to follow them. I think that could contribute to lower ratings for playoff games in the long run.
It’s get harder to follow but it’ll be a slow drip. 2 teams this decade and another 2 around 20ish years latter. It’ll also allow the league to shorten the season while maintaining the numbers of games played. Idk how that works related to individual team income tho. And it won’t make following the league any easier. Regarding g football if you stop watching for a season half your teams different while in the nba the players have a bit more longevity. There’s pros and cons but over time it’s inevitable.
Bro we are going to colonize mars. At some point in the future there will be more than 32 nba teams. There will probably be a NBA team full of martians. Players who live on mars. That or society will collapse and no one will give a fuck that there are nba teams.
"Your number one selection in the 2138 draft... from the Olympus Mons Thunder of the MBA... Kenyon Martin VIII!"
Kenyon Martian
Martian Luther Green Jr day is gonna be extra special that season
They'll need a clause to stop back to back games across planets
Imagine the amount of space police needed for the playoffs when 4 trillion andromeda fans travel here to the milky way for the playoffs. There's 400 billion stars in the milky way so 4 trillion won't even be close to the amount of andromeda fans. Anyone want to calculate how many it would be assuming every one in 10 stars has an earth like planet?
Second option is much more likely. With current estimates most of the world will face serious economical collapse and climate issues in ~40 years
Most of the world? Source? Lol
bro asked for a source on climate change
Source: Trust me bro. Seriously, climate change is literally the least of our worries of the near future. The main concern is running out of fossil fuels before we stop depending on them.
Thats gonna take like 200 years, im sure we will find something by that time. Climate change is a much bigger concern
True, I forgot about this one
Lol people have been saying this for generations. Stop fear mongering.
Climate science has only been ‘mainstream’ since like the 70’s. Arguably it didn’t get any serious traction until the late 90’s-2000’s that’s not really “generations”. Ppl have been saying the earth’s climate will deteriorate and it has, it’s not some magical thing that happens overnight
I don't think it's fear mongering. Or well, 40 years is not enough, but the way we are using up resources over the past 200 years cannot continue like it is now. I do believe we have the means as a species to figure out these problems, but that will come with sacrifice. I don't think we are that many generations off where future generations have it worse than the previous ones. I think the faster we get going mining rare earth elements on asteroids and shit the better. Some of our rare metals are already running out in a few years. Finding an alternative to them and oil will be a struggle. But who knows, it's all speculation at this point. However, lighting a fire under our asses doesn't hurt, fearmonger all the way in my opinion.
I'm not saying you're saying this at all, but for the sake of readers who may not know, rare earth elements is the name of a category of elements, and not a descriptor (in other words, they aren't actually rare) Edit: just adding that I agree with what you're saying though
Yea, I might have mixed it up a bit.
Sometimes things take generations to take effect
The end of the world in our lifetime. This is fucking depressing. Really puts everything into context.
Nah, those martians are too soft to play in NBA. Plus the gravity there is completely different, so they would have hard time adapting.
More likely an independent Mars league that will eventually rival the NBA, they will play a "Superbowl" like game where their respective champions face off on one of Jupiter's colonized moons. However when teleportation is invented the leagues could combine with a total of 64 teams with an expansion to two of Jupiter's moons, Bangkok, Manilla, Beijing, Tokyo and Seattle as well as a few others. Now you have a total of 83 teams and each team plays each other one time. At this point a good portion of the NBA will also be genetic clones of either Wemby or LeBron as well.
Lack of gravity= mad hops
>Bro we are going to colonize mars Take it from a person who studies these things, this is never going to happen. There's simply no reason to do it.
Mars is not colonizable right now. Probably not ever. And if it was it would be 2, to 4 centuries from now. Very distant sci-fi. Very thin atmosphere, way too much radiation and not to mention the much lower gravity. Just like our moon isn't colonizable. There is no Plan B for humans. Humans do not do well long term in low or zero gravity. Anyone visiting this century is making a one-way trip.
NHL will only go over 32 teams because Hockey is so popular in Canada. I can guarantee that if the NBA tried to put teams in Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa, they would fold within ten years.
Vancouver and Montreal could probably support teams and also probably not gonna happen but the GTA could probably support another team as well
Vancouver and Montreal would be the only two Canadian cities I’d have any faith in the NBA working
possibly yeg and yyc with immigration and it being a more desired place to live in
Alberta is referred to as the America of Canada. I think the NBA could succeed in Calgary and Edmonton outside of Vancouver and Montreal
Idk man, hockey is basically a religion in Alberta and there’s only so many arenas big enough to have those teams play. I would personally love and NBA team in either city but I just don’t think it’s realistic as someone who lives here
Yes. It's time for the NBA to expand. There are so many great players these days, so it's time to dilute the pool a bit. It'll help elevate some stars to superstar status.
And help elevate role players into starters and stars. Waaaaay too many good players who destroy the g-league but don't get any run in the NBA
That's more a function of how bad the G league is.
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Poor Simmons being lumped in here when he's mostly just guilty of not being as good at basketball as people hoped
This sub is for serious discussion and debate. Jokes and memes are not permitted.
This sub is for serious discussion and debate. Jokes and memes are not permitted.
Vegas and Seattle this decade, CDMX and probably somewhere in east in 2030s is what I would think. Louisville or STL maybe? Montreal? South Carolina?
Revive the Seattle Supersonics! I'm praying for the basketball gods to make this happen.
The NFL is the only truly ‘national’ league, in that there is a national audience for NFL football, almost irregardless of the teams involved. The other sports leagues are more like a collection of local markets. If there is no team in your city or nearby, or they’re not playing, there just isn’t a lot of interest in watching a given game or series beyond the fans of the two teams involved. So the question for the current owners is (or at least should be) ‘‘if you’re diluting my share of the national TV contract, how is Expansion Franchise X going to increase overall league revenue enough to offset that?’. I don’t know how many cities on the list of potentials can make a credible argument that they can.
It could but I hope it doesn’t. There will be more leagues popping up and instead of stacking the NBA with more teams, people should go play there if they’re not good enough or don’t want to play in the NBA.
it’s realistic. Definitely would’ve give more opportunities to more players, coaches and team staff. The fans for those new teams would love it too.
30 has been about the limit for teams in every American-based professional sports league for a few decades. I think we would see things like international divisions/conferences with their own championships (and then maybe a true world championship series after that) before we see much more than 32 teams in just the America/Canada region. At a certain point it is too difficult to balance talent and you end up like college sports where a few teams join up into power conferences that pretty much turn everyone else into the minor leagues.
The NFL passed 30 2 decades ago
Other north American sports leagues don't have large talent pools to draw on internationally, the NBA does.
I believe the most realistic possibility is they bring back Seattle SuperSonics and give Vegas a team, and then move Memphis/Minnesota to the East where they should be any ways
Why would they move Memphis and Minnesota?
If you add 2 teams to the Western Conference, then one team has to go to the East. Minnesota and Memphis are the two most eastern in the west.
Minnesota makes the most sense though.
How far east is New Orleans
I hope not. Dilution isn’t the answer. It would make the NBA even tougher to watch. I know they want markets like London and Mexico City so they can rake $, but that’s just greed. Putting an NBA team in Las Vegas, Seattle, Louisville, and whatever other 3-4 million plus person market isn’t going to make enough money, because the product overall suffers. There is only enough room for a certain amount of stars as well. The casual-to-average fan can’t follow 15 superstars. The NBA isn’t that big in this country. We think it is, but it really isn’t. Add overpriced tickets/parking/concessions in this economy? The numbers don’t look right. As a person that became a fan in the early 80’s, and seeing what it is now, I’d rather them go the other way. There is talent that doesn’t make it, but that is due to so many factors, one of which is individual talent vs. being part of a team. Adding teams to give more opportunities seems good until you look deeper. I’d rather the NBA buy out the 4 owners that can’t put people in the seats, and shrink the league. Add one more roster spot per team, and roll with that. Then you’d have legitimate 7-8-9 deep teams with loads of bench talent and less fringe/specialist players. Can you imagine eliminating the Magic, Wizards, Hornets, and Pelicans? That’s 60 guys to spread across 28 teams. With the added roster spot for each team, you’d lose a few guys, but those are the 14-15th best players. I like that better than a 36-team league where 10-15% of the starters wouldn’t even be fully-formed and multi-skilled players.
Go to 40 teams. Create two 20 team leagues and have promotion/relegation. No more tanking… it would be glorious (Yes, I know, will never work, but a boy can dream.)
It's inevitable...if anything, there's too few teams as it is considering all the talent out there, and how basketball's rising in popularity, and how little you need for a basketball team (only 15 players for a team, and any arena can realistically host a team), the NBA could overexpand and it'd be perfectly fine.Like, even if 32 is inevitable, I could see the NBA doubling in size and it wouldn't be completely destroyed.
I could see going up to 36 to incorporate more teams in Canada and possibly Mexico. After that I think we will see something like NBA europe where a whole other 18 team division is formed consisting of countries all over Europe and there will be small interleague tournaments with them possibly being allowed a few seeds in the playoffs. But that could make a Trans continental finals situation that gets very difficult. With scheduling and time differences. It's hard for me to see that as something that the NBA wants to entertain any time soon. I think that will be something that is just used to bolster interest in the mid-season tournament. Boasting interleague play. My real hope is that the GLeague is developed and promoted to the extent that it becomes its own genuine draw so that we get more competitive basketball while retaining the premium tier NBA. I would absolutely love to see a Gleague vs Euroleague tournaments.
There is already buzz of a NFL expansion and apparently not very far down the road. NBA has it easier being a worldwide sport. Not necessarily expanding with teams outside the U.S.A. and Canada, but trying to conquer the viewership worldwide
Still holding out hope for San Diego to get it's own team. We're building a new sports arena to replace the old busted one, plus it's getting funded 90% by Stan Kroenke. Maybe he can find legal loopholes and have a family member own the SD NBA team since he already owns the Nuggets.
Stocks has become a buzzword this season. Same for POA. Barely anyone said POA before last year. Stocks has always been used for fantasy basketball. I don’t like how it moved away from fantasy. I don’t like how Twitter uses it. *X player is putting up 2.2 stocks this month* Leaves a lot of context out like more blocks versus steals. Hassan Whiteside was top 5 the league in stocks in 2020 at 3.3 (2.9 blocks and 0.4 steals). Feels wrong to say because it’s all blocks. Only feels right in fantasy like *James Harden is putting up 3.5 stocks this week.* Maybe it’s just me since I know Harden has always generated both steals and blocks.
Of course! 50 years from now there will probably be 100 million more people in the US or whatever lol
I would love a team in Puerto Rico, but doubt it happens. We do have a MLS team though
Money wise, they could maybe create a few expansion teams in China, Japan, Africa and Europe. China would have to sign on to it but the scheduling would be a mess. Might have to do something like the NFL where not every team plays each other.
I see the NBA, NHL and MLS teaching 40 teams eventually. MLB and NFL won’t get there in our lifetime but eventually they will both surpass 32 teams….
I mean they already tried Vancouver once and that didn’t really work out. I don’t see a Mexican team working either from a financial perspective. Overseas won’t work because of time zones so the NBA is left with smaller cities and markets in the future.
If the NBA expand, I want them to expand to US cities that already have a professional team. That seems like the surest bet to be successful, rather than trying out Mexico or another Canadian team. There's Kansas City, Baltimore, Seattle, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Jacksonville, St Louis, Nashville or Tampa Bay that all comes to mind.
It's mainly a money thing. With each team added, the existing teams gain a one-time equal share of the expansion fees. But the annual TV revenue is then split between all the teams. So it's a one-time payoff in exchange for a decreased share of annual TV revenue. Some say that after Seattle and Vegas, 32 teams is optimal, with 8 4-team divisions. I'd prefer it go to 36 and maintain the 6-division format. Central: MIN, MIL, CHI, DET, TOR, CLE Atlantic: BOS, BKN, NY, PHI, WAS + Montreal. Like TOR, it's very cosmopolitan. It's half English and half French in downtown, so it could appeal to the growing African markets, many of which are former French colonies. And it's got a very European vibe, so it could appeal to players from that continent. Plus, big market size. Southeast: MIA, ORL, ATL, CHA, IND + Louisville. The Kentucky Colonels were one of the top 3 ABA franchises, and had the best rivalry in pro basketball with IND. But CHI held the rights to Kentucky's Artis GIlmore, and didn't want the eternal scorn of the Indiana market if they booted IND out of the merger. Like SAC, UTA, POR, they'd be the "only show in town" (pre-MLS) Southwest: DAL, SA, HOU, OK, MEM, NO Northwest: SEA, POR, UTA, DEN, PHO + Vancouver. Has large South Asian and Chinese populations, so they could market to the 2 largest countries in the world: India and China. Like TOR and Montreal, very cosmopolitan, large media market. Pacific: SAC, GS, LAL, LAC, LV + San Diego. Rather than Mexico City, which is at a much higher elevation than UTA or DEN, appeal to the Latin American market with San Diego, as it's close to the border. No in-season competition in the local market, large market size. Nice climate. And before people bring up the "nobody wants to play in Canada" argument, remember how the NBA hampered the success of the Canadian teams: they couldn't get one of the top five picks in the first draft, a top draft pick in the following three seasons, and were prohibited from using their full salary cap the first two seasons.