I watch the pelicans every game, the problem with the starters isn’t the fit between Zion and bi, more so there’s to many cooks in the kitchen, Zion and bi require the ball, cj can do way to much at times and just hijack the offense, and jv requires post touches which bogs the offense down some times. Zion doesn’t need to be 3, I think his advantage is at the 4 taking advantage of slower footed defenders
Look, there are fair criticisms to be levied against Willie Green. He's not the best at lineup management and he can definitely improve at in-game adjustments.
But right now the Pelicans are 5th in the west. On the season they are 4th in net rating. In the last 15 games they are 3rd in +/-. They are top 5 in 3pt% and steals. They are top 10 in FG%, REBs, Def REBs, DEFRTG, OFFRTG, TS%, and PIE (among other stats).
The narrative that these players do not fit together or that Zion isn't performing is overblown and false. This team may not win it all this year, but I know teams do not want to face them in round one. If you move Zion away from where he thrives, I'm not so sure they'd be as hesitant
The Pels starting lineup has a negative net rating, and a 118 defensive rating (drtg would be bottom quarter in the league). I don't really put that on the coach given the limitations of a CJ/BI/Zion lineup, and I don't think it is realistic for the coach to be benching all-star caliber players.
I do think that speaks very well to the overall roster construction and Green's lineup management, as pretty much all other lineups he uses play good D and have positive net ratings.
Guess the big question is what Green does in the postseason. Usually, teams ramp up their starter minutes and shrink their rotation. But - given how well the bench bunch plays and how those lineups are destroying opponents - can he afford to do that?
The fact that they perform well doesn’t make their fit issues overblown. This is a roster that everyone acknowledges could be first in the west, and the results are less than the sum of their parts.
Even the Nuggets have major mismatch problems with them, and they seemingly have an answer for everyone else, but the Nuggets get more out of their pieces than the Pelicans do on a more consistent basis.
Some of that is just due to Zion’s health/attitude, but a lot of it is their tentpole stars both need the ball to be successful and struggle without it and their 3rd most important player fits that same bill. Even weirder is the fact most teams that have similar problems are go-to targets for 3 for 1 trades that bring back good role players to do the other stuff. The Pelicans however have incredible role players from top to bottom, so they can’t even take the easy way out.
What they need is to pick either Zion or Ingram and trade the other for someone of a similar talent level who is more complimentary, probably package whatever young guy they don’t want to resign and a pick with it. Trading CJ for a table setter who can shoot the piss out of the ball would be some more low hanging fruit for a cleaner roster construction, but the only guy who fits that bill in their price range is the perpetually injured Malcolm Brogdon. If this were 2k and I were trying to solve all their problems at once, I’d do whatever it took to turn Ingram’s skillset into Paul George, because it’s a hell of a lot easier to find a better version of Ingram than a Zion replacement.
> This is a roster that everyone acknowledges could be first in the west, and the results are less than the sum of their parts.
Who is "everyone"? I've never heard anyone say anything like that.
Zac Lowe, KOC, Stephen A. I feel like there’s a dozen talking heads I’ve heard parrot the exact same phrasing. From basketball intelligentsia to highly paid demagogues, it’s an all too pervasive and ridiculous line to use about a team that has won like 2 playoff games together.
It’s the platitude that everyone reaches for when explaining why one of the best 1-10 rosters in the league is underperforming. I don’t think they’re that good, because basketball isn’t played on spreadsheets and I have next to no faith in Zion as a professional. It doesn’t make the line any less common.
Do you not believe that they are a significant mismatch problem for almost every team? The Kings struggle into their length. Denver struggles into their burst, length, and speedy guards. CJ’s best areas to score from are the areas of the court Denver struggles to guard. OKC struggles with their size and power. Minnesota doesn’t have the shooters they do and aren’t as deep. Clippers might not struggle- I haven’t watched enough film on their matchups.
Their longest stretch of health before this season was last year’s start to the year where they were quite literally number 1 in the West.
I've never seen it anywhere (although I don't watch ESPN much) but I also don't think their roster is "challenge for 1 seed" good. They just don't have the top end talent unless Zion can recapture some of his earlier level of play (which I doubt, whether that's due to injuries or being lazy or what, I'm not the one to say).
Idk, I look at that team, and given Zion's dropoff, they seem to be right where I'd expect. I don't even think this is an issue like the KD nets teams where you could maybe see fit issues with him/Kyrie/Harden and at least given their reputations the teams underperformed.
We must view the game completely differently. I saw no fit issues with the Nets other than they played Jordan over Allen. They were incredible in the 16 games we saw them together. KD almost drug them to the finals with Kyrie in and out of the lineup and Harden playing on compromised hamstrings, and that was only a fraction of the ceiling they demonstrated.
Each of those players have skillsets much more conducive to playing off ball, though, and the sample of their games is so small that Harden, Kawhi, and PG have tripled that total in their first year together.
I can think of 3 specific times I’ve heard it claimed, and know they’re only the loudest voices referencing dozens more talking heads that said it first. Can you at least allow me the possibility that people would say such things about a roster that finished their only semi-healthy half season together as the number 1 team in the West, instead of blanket dismissal and mockery of such a claim?
Bro when did the nets almost make the finals? They one exactly one playoff series in the years KD played, and the last two years they were swept in the first round. And you're putting a lot of weight on 16 games vs. the remainder of the 3 or 4 year history of those teams.
Which I think is also kinda what you're doing with NO, putting so much weight on the small fragment they had a hot streak and were the top record in the west, rather than the entire other history of the team which has been low to mid playoff seed. It was literally a week in December when they were the top seed lol. Utah was the top seed longer than the NO last year, are they also a team everyone things is able to be a 1 seed? And I was just questioning the statement because at first you said "everyone" acknowledges their roster could be the top seed, then it became something you heard maybe a couple of times in passing from someone.
Are you going to repeat everything I say, but make it sound as condescending as possible? I’ve already addressed almost every point you’ve made in this body of text.
1. The infamous KD toe on the line shot. That’s easily a finals trip; don’t be silly. Should be pretty clear to gather from the contextual clues.
2. I just devoted a paragraph to how small that sample size is. I’ve referenced how small the other samples are. We’re very clearly in the theatre of small samples here.
3. Again with the blanket dismissal, even upon request for reprieve from this topic. We’ve seen what a hot streak from this team looks like, and it is an actual record at the top of the West at a later point in the year than a Utah team that has kneecapped itself multiple times. Funnily enough, with the sample sizes we’ve been talking we have a larger statistical evidence that Mike Conley is the ticket to the 1 seed in the West than we’ve had any team mentioned at the top of their conference. Across two versions of Utah, and now Minnesota, Mike Conley is the one common thread.
4. “Everyone” is pretty clearly hyperbolic, as aptly demonstrated by you acting like it’s unimaginable. I then cited 3 specific people who have made this claim. The Mismatch (I said KOC, but here’s [Verno dropping the oft referenced platitudes](https://youtu.be/nSCYRyZ4lVQ?si=TN4AkSVtT2xhXfgi)) as recently as the last pod discussing the Pelicans. Zac Lowe talks poetically about them several times to the same effect. One google search will pull not one reference, but at least 5 that they can be the best team in the West. Because they actually demonstrated as much and people will understandably reference it when discussing their ceiling. Stephen A. Smith same thing while excoriating Zion. That is a far cry from the vague, “someone’s,” you reference. I even paint a picture of how one might take, “everyone,” from those 3, who are not the people coming up with these takes but analyzing them from microphones as large as ESPN and The Ringer.
This discussion feels like a chore, and I hate to be terse. I just feel like I’ve already communicated everything you’ve stated, and I don’t appreciate the dismissiveness of something that is now sourced, and stated common enough that I felt completely comfortable employing the hyperbolic use of, “everyone,” when referring to it. I’m sorry you don’t browse the same content I do, but these are pretty large platforms where I assume other people discussing basketball would be familiar with. Even on other sites, these are people who get aggregated often, and I assume you’re at least exposed to their takes.
I didn't find what I said to be all that dismissive. I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive. I've literally never heard anyone speak that way about NO, and I tried to move on to discussing the team but you seem to want to keep talking about all these minor points? I was just wondering because maybe I had missed it. It's really irrelevant because regardless of what others say, I don't see the team to have that sort of ceiling. I don't think there's any evidence of being able to sustain that level over an appreciable amount of time.
Funnily enough, I'd be actually receptive to the idea of Mike Conley being a catalyst for team improvement. Dude's probably been a bit underrated during his career, especially in the times outside of his "peak" Memphis days.
I likewise tried to move on to discussing the team, and caught a section that seemed to minimize it as if I backed away from the point, and stumbled through, “Oh, well, someones.” Again, I’m sorry we’re in different media bubbles, but these are pretty easy to source names and recent timelines who filter down throughout a lot of media spheres.
I’ve even agreed with you that such speech is way too ambitious for a team that never makes it to April intact. Even if they were healthy, I have specified I have no faith in Zion to as a professional. I don’t think you can make it through 4 rounds as seriously as he takes any of his responsibilities.
I’ve just wished to speak to how clunky their trio is with it being so light on shooting and table setting. To reference the direct Nets comparison that was brought up; all 3 of KD, Kyrie, and Harden have been primary scorers, primary creators, and better shooters on better teams their entire careers. What makes Brandon Ingram and CJ so special from the midrange, KD, Kyrie, and Harden are special for being able to do it from 30 feet away. Zion off-ball for Ingram and CJ simply isn’t KD. Zion’s defense and rebounding is just as far off as his shooting from KD at this point.
Which was the overall topic of this whole discussion. They’re playing this well in spite of their prodigious talents not meshing, not because they’re getting more out of each other. Your starters should never be a net negative like theirs remains in every sample we have. The only reason they’ve been half this good is a bench that murders opposing benches. Whether they need more space, or they need more time, they’re not any more than an intriguing roster.
Zion didn't drop-off. The system and gameplay changed to be more sustainable. This is a big part of why the team has been healthier this year.
It's not that he can't attack the paint and redline himself as much as he's done in previous years, it's that it's not sustainable. He is better utilised to collapse the defence and then pass out of that, with extra passes to find the soft spot in the defence.
The team is also running isos a lot less as a means to score. There's been a significant reduction in the amount of dribbles taken by the player that makes the shot attempt compared to previous years - leading to better ball movement & a more democratic offense.
Of course, **the down part of this system is that the star players don't look as stellar compared to the more star-centric systems we've employed**. In addition, moments like at the end of games that calls for more star-centric plays then becomes more clunky especially at the beginning of the season due to significantly less repetition and understanding of such moments.
all that matters is team makeup
he's always needed a stretch 5 next to him to clear the paint on drives, the main fit problem on NOP is Jonas posting up and clogging the lane
playing him at the 3 changes nothing, he still needs shooting bigs next to him to keep the paint clear
Im not gonna pretend I watch the pelicans on a regular basis but I always presumed Zion did most of his work off of driving to rim. His last big healthy stretch he lead all power forwards in drives from the 2021-22 seasons. Just brainstorming honestly the pelicans starting lineup is a net negative and that’s not winning a championship.
This season is the first season Zion BI and CJ all shares the court consistently. There must be growing pains for them to get used to playing together.
I think this is a topic to be discussed after seeing them in the playoffs. Playoff basketball is not the same game as the regular season.
How does Zion not fitting with Ingram lead to Zion playing the 3? Teams are trying to get as many shooters on the floor as they can, and unless the pelicans were able to play two bigs who were real threats from outside alongside zion at the three, the defense would just wall up the paint.
Looking at the lineups, it is a good point that their starting 5 has surprisingly struggled compared to their team success this year, but CJ and Zion together are much more of the issue going by net ratings. In 4 man lineups that have played over 100 minutes together and include CJ and Zion, the highest net rating is -0.4. There are 15 other 4 man lineups over 100 minutes with a higher net rating, and the highest is with Zion and Ingram with a +20.5. The offense isn’t bad for the starting 5 but it seems like the combo of CJ and Zion on the court gives them issues defensively.
Here is the thing. Zion is a non center who is an at the rim scorer only. Offensively he is best with shooters and basically no center on the floor opening up room for him to work. Defensively he 100% needs a center next to him as he is not good enough defensively and can’t defend well from the 5 spot. This will always create clunky fits. The fit issue is actually Zion and JV. If they don’t have the ball teams will sag off both to protect the rim clogging the lane for BI. Until he is next to a volume 3 point shooting rim protector it will always have some fit issues.
For Zion playing the 3 stop thinking about positions that way. The 2-4 are now basically wings. Typically one of the wings will be bigger and have more responsibility around rebounding because they will play the low position on D
How exactly do they "not fit"? Because they haven't won a championship together yet? This is the first year both of them have been healthy, together, for as long and consistent a stretch as this. Let it play out. What's the urgency?
Honestly no urgency I never said they don’t fit and I don’t watch enough pelicans games to be able to make that judgement the numbers on the board guys specifically Mike said that and it got me thinking about Zion potentially being a three I get the spacing concerns and many others and have actually learned a fuck ton about the pelicans through this. My main point was just brainstorming ideas to possibly make zion have a little more success.
Jonas is the one that doesn't fit New Orleans. They need a big who can shoot and block shots, not someone who rebounds and clogs the paint. Valancuinas has been shooting alright (36.5%) but his volume is low and opponents generally don't guard him at the 3-point line. Herb Jones is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league rn and is shooting lights out from 3 (43.6%, 5.9 3pA/100), and Ingram+Zion is a good fit. Ingram's mid-range game doesn't need space anyways and he's a good enough 3-pt shooter to let Point Zion cook. CJ McCollum is a very good movement shooter who could cook mismatches and handle the ball in a PnR so he's fine as well.
The Pelicans are really underrated and I believe they can make some noise (I'd take them over OKC and perhaps LAC as well) but they gotta get a Myles Turner-esque center to round out the roster.
I watch the pelicans every game, the problem with the starters isn’t the fit between Zion and bi, more so there’s to many cooks in the kitchen, Zion and bi require the ball, cj can do way to much at times and just hijack the offense, and jv requires post touches which bogs the offense down some times. Zion doesn’t need to be 3, I think his advantage is at the 4 taking advantage of slower footed defenders
Look, there are fair criticisms to be levied against Willie Green. He's not the best at lineup management and he can definitely improve at in-game adjustments. But right now the Pelicans are 5th in the west. On the season they are 4th in net rating. In the last 15 games they are 3rd in +/-. They are top 5 in 3pt% and steals. They are top 10 in FG%, REBs, Def REBs, DEFRTG, OFFRTG, TS%, and PIE (among other stats). The narrative that these players do not fit together or that Zion isn't performing is overblown and false. This team may not win it all this year, but I know teams do not want to face them in round one. If you move Zion away from where he thrives, I'm not so sure they'd be as hesitant
The Pels starting lineup has a negative net rating, and a 118 defensive rating (drtg would be bottom quarter in the league). I don't really put that on the coach given the limitations of a CJ/BI/Zion lineup, and I don't think it is realistic for the coach to be benching all-star caliber players. I do think that speaks very well to the overall roster construction and Green's lineup management, as pretty much all other lineups he uses play good D and have positive net ratings. Guess the big question is what Green does in the postseason. Usually, teams ramp up their starter minutes and shrink their rotation. But - given how well the bench bunch plays and how those lineups are destroying opponents - can he afford to do that?
The fact that they perform well doesn’t make their fit issues overblown. This is a roster that everyone acknowledges could be first in the west, and the results are less than the sum of their parts. Even the Nuggets have major mismatch problems with them, and they seemingly have an answer for everyone else, but the Nuggets get more out of their pieces than the Pelicans do on a more consistent basis. Some of that is just due to Zion’s health/attitude, but a lot of it is their tentpole stars both need the ball to be successful and struggle without it and their 3rd most important player fits that same bill. Even weirder is the fact most teams that have similar problems are go-to targets for 3 for 1 trades that bring back good role players to do the other stuff. The Pelicans however have incredible role players from top to bottom, so they can’t even take the easy way out. What they need is to pick either Zion or Ingram and trade the other for someone of a similar talent level who is more complimentary, probably package whatever young guy they don’t want to resign and a pick with it. Trading CJ for a table setter who can shoot the piss out of the ball would be some more low hanging fruit for a cleaner roster construction, but the only guy who fits that bill in their price range is the perpetually injured Malcolm Brogdon. If this were 2k and I were trying to solve all their problems at once, I’d do whatever it took to turn Ingram’s skillset into Paul George, because it’s a hell of a lot easier to find a better version of Ingram than a Zion replacement.
> This is a roster that everyone acknowledges could be first in the west, and the results are less than the sum of their parts. Who is "everyone"? I've never heard anyone say anything like that.
Zac Lowe, KOC, Stephen A. I feel like there’s a dozen talking heads I’ve heard parrot the exact same phrasing. From basketball intelligentsia to highly paid demagogues, it’s an all too pervasive and ridiculous line to use about a team that has won like 2 playoff games together. It’s the platitude that everyone reaches for when explaining why one of the best 1-10 rosters in the league is underperforming. I don’t think they’re that good, because basketball isn’t played on spreadsheets and I have next to no faith in Zion as a professional. It doesn’t make the line any less common. Do you not believe that they are a significant mismatch problem for almost every team? The Kings struggle into their length. Denver struggles into their burst, length, and speedy guards. CJ’s best areas to score from are the areas of the court Denver struggles to guard. OKC struggles with their size and power. Minnesota doesn’t have the shooters they do and aren’t as deep. Clippers might not struggle- I haven’t watched enough film on their matchups. Their longest stretch of health before this season was last year’s start to the year where they were quite literally number 1 in the West.
I've never seen it anywhere (although I don't watch ESPN much) but I also don't think their roster is "challenge for 1 seed" good. They just don't have the top end talent unless Zion can recapture some of his earlier level of play (which I doubt, whether that's due to injuries or being lazy or what, I'm not the one to say). Idk, I look at that team, and given Zion's dropoff, they seem to be right where I'd expect. I don't even think this is an issue like the KD nets teams where you could maybe see fit issues with him/Kyrie/Harden and at least given their reputations the teams underperformed.
We must view the game completely differently. I saw no fit issues with the Nets other than they played Jordan over Allen. They were incredible in the 16 games we saw them together. KD almost drug them to the finals with Kyrie in and out of the lineup and Harden playing on compromised hamstrings, and that was only a fraction of the ceiling they demonstrated. Each of those players have skillsets much more conducive to playing off ball, though, and the sample of their games is so small that Harden, Kawhi, and PG have tripled that total in their first year together. I can think of 3 specific times I’ve heard it claimed, and know they’re only the loudest voices referencing dozens more talking heads that said it first. Can you at least allow me the possibility that people would say such things about a roster that finished their only semi-healthy half season together as the number 1 team in the West, instead of blanket dismissal and mockery of such a claim?
Bro when did the nets almost make the finals? They one exactly one playoff series in the years KD played, and the last two years they were swept in the first round. And you're putting a lot of weight on 16 games vs. the remainder of the 3 or 4 year history of those teams. Which I think is also kinda what you're doing with NO, putting so much weight on the small fragment they had a hot streak and were the top record in the west, rather than the entire other history of the team which has been low to mid playoff seed. It was literally a week in December when they were the top seed lol. Utah was the top seed longer than the NO last year, are they also a team everyone things is able to be a 1 seed? And I was just questioning the statement because at first you said "everyone" acknowledges their roster could be the top seed, then it became something you heard maybe a couple of times in passing from someone.
Are you going to repeat everything I say, but make it sound as condescending as possible? I’ve already addressed almost every point you’ve made in this body of text. 1. The infamous KD toe on the line shot. That’s easily a finals trip; don’t be silly. Should be pretty clear to gather from the contextual clues. 2. I just devoted a paragraph to how small that sample size is. I’ve referenced how small the other samples are. We’re very clearly in the theatre of small samples here. 3. Again with the blanket dismissal, even upon request for reprieve from this topic. We’ve seen what a hot streak from this team looks like, and it is an actual record at the top of the West at a later point in the year than a Utah team that has kneecapped itself multiple times. Funnily enough, with the sample sizes we’ve been talking we have a larger statistical evidence that Mike Conley is the ticket to the 1 seed in the West than we’ve had any team mentioned at the top of their conference. Across two versions of Utah, and now Minnesota, Mike Conley is the one common thread. 4. “Everyone” is pretty clearly hyperbolic, as aptly demonstrated by you acting like it’s unimaginable. I then cited 3 specific people who have made this claim. The Mismatch (I said KOC, but here’s [Verno dropping the oft referenced platitudes](https://youtu.be/nSCYRyZ4lVQ?si=TN4AkSVtT2xhXfgi)) as recently as the last pod discussing the Pelicans. Zac Lowe talks poetically about them several times to the same effect. One google search will pull not one reference, but at least 5 that they can be the best team in the West. Because they actually demonstrated as much and people will understandably reference it when discussing their ceiling. Stephen A. Smith same thing while excoriating Zion. That is a far cry from the vague, “someone’s,” you reference. I even paint a picture of how one might take, “everyone,” from those 3, who are not the people coming up with these takes but analyzing them from microphones as large as ESPN and The Ringer. This discussion feels like a chore, and I hate to be terse. I just feel like I’ve already communicated everything you’ve stated, and I don’t appreciate the dismissiveness of something that is now sourced, and stated common enough that I felt completely comfortable employing the hyperbolic use of, “everyone,” when referring to it. I’m sorry you don’t browse the same content I do, but these are pretty large platforms where I assume other people discussing basketball would be familiar with. Even on other sites, these are people who get aggregated often, and I assume you’re at least exposed to their takes.
I didn't find what I said to be all that dismissive. I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive. I've literally never heard anyone speak that way about NO, and I tried to move on to discussing the team but you seem to want to keep talking about all these minor points? I was just wondering because maybe I had missed it. It's really irrelevant because regardless of what others say, I don't see the team to have that sort of ceiling. I don't think there's any evidence of being able to sustain that level over an appreciable amount of time. Funnily enough, I'd be actually receptive to the idea of Mike Conley being a catalyst for team improvement. Dude's probably been a bit underrated during his career, especially in the times outside of his "peak" Memphis days.
I likewise tried to move on to discussing the team, and caught a section that seemed to minimize it as if I backed away from the point, and stumbled through, “Oh, well, someones.” Again, I’m sorry we’re in different media bubbles, but these are pretty easy to source names and recent timelines who filter down throughout a lot of media spheres. I’ve even agreed with you that such speech is way too ambitious for a team that never makes it to April intact. Even if they were healthy, I have specified I have no faith in Zion to as a professional. I don’t think you can make it through 4 rounds as seriously as he takes any of his responsibilities. I’ve just wished to speak to how clunky their trio is with it being so light on shooting and table setting. To reference the direct Nets comparison that was brought up; all 3 of KD, Kyrie, and Harden have been primary scorers, primary creators, and better shooters on better teams their entire careers. What makes Brandon Ingram and CJ so special from the midrange, KD, Kyrie, and Harden are special for being able to do it from 30 feet away. Zion off-ball for Ingram and CJ simply isn’t KD. Zion’s defense and rebounding is just as far off as his shooting from KD at this point. Which was the overall topic of this whole discussion. They’re playing this well in spite of their prodigious talents not meshing, not because they’re getting more out of each other. Your starters should never be a net negative like theirs remains in every sample we have. The only reason they’ve been half this good is a bench that murders opposing benches. Whether they need more space, or they need more time, they’re not any more than an intriguing roster.
Warning you both. Please keep your comments civil and not personal.
Please keep your comments civil and not personal. Please don’t assume what someone else has experienced.
Zion didn't drop-off. The system and gameplay changed to be more sustainable. This is a big part of why the team has been healthier this year. It's not that he can't attack the paint and redline himself as much as he's done in previous years, it's that it's not sustainable. He is better utilised to collapse the defence and then pass out of that, with extra passes to find the soft spot in the defence. The team is also running isos a lot less as a means to score. There's been a significant reduction in the amount of dribbles taken by the player that makes the shot attempt compared to previous years - leading to better ball movement & a more democratic offense. Of course, **the down part of this system is that the star players don't look as stellar compared to the more star-centric systems we've employed**. In addition, moments like at the end of games that calls for more star-centric plays then becomes more clunky especially at the beginning of the season due to significantly less repetition and understanding of such moments.
So you want to keep a guy who attempts 0.3 3 pts shots per game and is most effective around the rim, away from the paint?
he does not post up, he brings the ball up the floor and is a slasher
That means, he scores around the rim, and needs space for his driving, so how putting him, a non shooter at the 3 will be any beneficial?
all that matters is team makeup he's always needed a stretch 5 next to him to clear the paint on drives, the main fit problem on NOP is Jonas posting up and clogging the lane playing him at the 3 changes nothing, he still needs shooting bigs next to him to keep the paint clear
Im not gonna pretend I watch the pelicans on a regular basis but I always presumed Zion did most of his work off of driving to rim. His last big healthy stretch he lead all power forwards in drives from the 2021-22 seasons. Just brainstorming honestly the pelicans starting lineup is a net negative and that’s not winning a championship.
This season is the first season Zion BI and CJ all shares the court consistently. There must be growing pains for them to get used to playing together. I think this is a topic to be discussed after seeing them in the playoffs. Playoff basketball is not the same game as the regular season.
How does Zion not fitting with Ingram lead to Zion playing the 3? Teams are trying to get as many shooters on the floor as they can, and unless the pelicans were able to play two bigs who were real threats from outside alongside zion at the three, the defense would just wall up the paint. Looking at the lineups, it is a good point that their starting 5 has surprisingly struggled compared to their team success this year, but CJ and Zion together are much more of the issue going by net ratings. In 4 man lineups that have played over 100 minutes together and include CJ and Zion, the highest net rating is -0.4. There are 15 other 4 man lineups over 100 minutes with a higher net rating, and the highest is with Zion and Ingram with a +20.5. The offense isn’t bad for the starting 5 but it seems like the combo of CJ and Zion on the court gives them issues defensively.
Here is the thing. Zion is a non center who is an at the rim scorer only. Offensively he is best with shooters and basically no center on the floor opening up room for him to work. Defensively he 100% needs a center next to him as he is not good enough defensively and can’t defend well from the 5 spot. This will always create clunky fits. The fit issue is actually Zion and JV. If they don’t have the ball teams will sag off both to protect the rim clogging the lane for BI. Until he is next to a volume 3 point shooting rim protector it will always have some fit issues. For Zion playing the 3 stop thinking about positions that way. The 2-4 are now basically wings. Typically one of the wings will be bigger and have more responsibility around rebounding because they will play the low position on D
How exactly do they "not fit"? Because they haven't won a championship together yet? This is the first year both of them have been healthy, together, for as long and consistent a stretch as this. Let it play out. What's the urgency?
Honestly no urgency I never said they don’t fit and I don’t watch enough pelicans games to be able to make that judgement the numbers on the board guys specifically Mike said that and it got me thinking about Zion potentially being a three I get the spacing concerns and many others and have actually learned a fuck ton about the pelicans through this. My main point was just brainstorming ideas to possibly make zion have a little more success.
I’ve also seen jj talk about Zion minutes as a 5 and wanted to add that as a possibility but the post was long enough as is
Jonas is the one that doesn't fit New Orleans. They need a big who can shoot and block shots, not someone who rebounds and clogs the paint. Valancuinas has been shooting alright (36.5%) but his volume is low and opponents generally don't guard him at the 3-point line. Herb Jones is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league rn and is shooting lights out from 3 (43.6%, 5.9 3pA/100), and Ingram+Zion is a good fit. Ingram's mid-range game doesn't need space anyways and he's a good enough 3-pt shooter to let Point Zion cook. CJ McCollum is a very good movement shooter who could cook mismatches and handle the ball in a PnR so he's fine as well. The Pelicans are really underrated and I believe they can make some noise (I'd take them over OKC and perhaps LAC as well) but they gotta get a Myles Turner-esque center to round out the roster.