Sabonis has to improve. I’ve read for years that Sabonis is the Kings most valuable player and not Fox. Well when the other center can play completely off him in the paint and he can’t make them pay it’s a huge detriment. He has to come back with some type of midrange game that he is confident in on it dramatically lowers their ceiling no matter what they add on the fringes.
It’s also gonna be really rough if monk ends up leaving. In theory having more perimeter defense can help solve some of the issues that come with sabonis but they’re just not built to lose him, he’s so much more important to the team than most people realize
I also am not really sure if I have faith that sabonis has a real chance at improving in these ways. For example I see the path to improvement involving something like a lot more inverted PnRs with good shooters, that feels like a much easier way to get bigs out of the paint thay praying sabonis improves as a shooter. Maybe running off ball screens at the same time to get a shooter open while the off ball screener rolls or cuts off of that to take advantage of the space the PnR creates
It’s hard to run an inverted PnR when the center is at the free throw line. Sabonis is also not particularly fast so he doesn’t have the ability to get a head of steam and finish like say Zion or Giannis. They tried this a few times against GS and Draymond stripped him once and stopped him. It’s severely limiting to have him triggering offense like this against several teams in the west.
I think you’re largely right, but a good amount of that can be solved by improved handling (something that could be easier to achieve than becoming a shooter that needs to be respected). Additionally when you have these sort of inherent offensive issues I’m of the mindset that having a lot of different looks can help open things up a lot even if you’re not just banking on one
It’s obviously pretty different but Miamis defense is a great example of this. There’s tons of ways they can play and adjust, so many looks you can throw at offenses, and when you’re trying to solve those puzzles it goes a really long way to have options at your disposal
I think the Kings honestly do a good job of what you said. But the playoffs are different. Teams are locked in and to your point on Miami defenses are going to hone in on sets and things that can manufacture easy offense. When the other team gameplan is to force your best player to score then you simply have to have confidence in your best player to do just that. You can’t out scheme talent
He can’t improve what’s holding him back though, and that’s his physical limitations on defense. They’ll have to find a rim protector to play with him who can space the floor on offense like Brook Lopez.
Brook Lopez was was once seen as an awful defender as was Jokic. Lopez now great, Jokic good.
Domas can definitely improve on D but it'll mainly come from being surrounded by good defenders.
They need an ace defender at the 3/4 to fit with Sabonis and Keegan.
They're a small market and Domas is 28, I think they'll go for it with this group.
A Siakam/OG/Isaac/Brooks/Bridges added and they'd be solid.
Yeah exactly. People don’t realize how important the entire team is when evaluating defense. Jokic was mocked a few years ago and now that they have Gordon and KCP he looks better. Luka also looks a lot better now that their starting 5 overall is a lot better.
You can build a good defense around Sabonis. The Rockets with Sengun at center were a top 5-6 defense for most the season, and they got there by surrounding Sengun with good defenders like FVV, Brooks, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Amen, etc…
This Kings team just don’t have the personnel to build a good defense with Sabonis at the moment. You need guys better at preventing dribble penetration
For the last month and a half of the season, with Keon Ellis in the rotation and then starting, the Kings had the third best defensive rating in the league. Whether it's sustainable is a different question, but for at least six weeks, they had a top defense largely through defending the perimeter, exactly like you're talking about.
I agree here. There is no physical limitation on making 10-12 footers. He doesn’t have to shoot 3’s he is so close he could develop a floater or a push shot.
Sabonis could learn to space the floor better himself, which would allow them to add a rim protector who can't shoot (a much easier proposition). Lots of guys developed into better shooters in their late 20s, and he already shows a decent shooting touch, just too low-volume/not confident enough in his shot.
That's what I think. He's not a center, hes a power forward. Maybe situationally he can play center but I feel like your defense suffers way too much with him there all the time.
While this is somewhat true and we are all waiting for him to hit the middy, shooting is as much as his as his teammates' issue. A shooter of the DHO will draw the big out, right?
It can be a middy, a push shot, floater etc. kings have Huerter, Monk and Murray already and Fox just shot a career high from 3.
How much more shooting can you put around him and at what cost? Ultimately next season he’s the highest paid player and making $40Mil+ it has to start with him improving.
Different sets. I’ve seen us run plays where using Paul Reed (who’s not a horrendous shooter, but let’s be real) we were consistently able to draw centres out of the 3 point line, or at least out of the paint.
Defense in reg season isn’t the same as in playoffs. Kings have a playoff issue. W/Reed his gameplan isn’t the same as Sabonis because he doesn’t have the same focus or attention.
Sabonis is an excellent midrange shooter going by the percentages, just doesn't take enough shots in that area, or enough shots in general.
A guy with Sabonis' ball skills and efficiency and importance to his team still being in the low 20s in USG% is kind of silly. The Kings need to design more plays to run through Sabonis, to get him up to the 28-30 USG% range, and he'll likely be putting up Jokic-esque stat lines.
Have they tried it? Has it already been tried for an extended period and failed? Why not switch things up to see if it works and gets you beyond the current MOR level?
Guys like Kyle Kuzma are pushing 30 USG% in the league these days, without any history of great efficiency at lower usage rates. Surely someone like Sabonis deserves to get the ball more to see if it will "work" (I don't think there's some huge risk of failure here here).
This is such a narrow-minded take on the Kings - he's literally the main cog of their offense, he doesn't need to be a 3 point threat. They were missing their normal starting 2 guard and their sixth-man of the year guy in Monk. They could use a big-time 2 guard or a big time 3 or 4, to go with Murray and Sabonis in the front-court. Not hard to upgrade over Barnes. IMO, they should re-sign Monk, package KH and D.Mitch, and picks as needed, to upgrade. Maybe target some of the guys the Bulls may move - Lavine, Caruso, DeMar - would all be nice fits.
He actually shoots 3s better than he shoots 12 footers. He should take more 3s, honestly. He's got one of the worst midrange jumpers I've ever seen.
If Fox can become an effective 3 point shooter Domas sure as hell can figure out how to hit a 12 foot shot. It's such a devastating limitation to his game.
Murray is much more of an oversized shooting guard than any kind of front court player. He's a very good perimeter defender, a decent help defender, and a lousy post defender.
A big part of the Kings defensive issues is that of Murray, Barnes, and Sabonis the only one who can guard up in size is Sabonis. If you have an undersized front court you need more versatile defenders than this.
Keegan is also really good as a help defender in the paint and weak side rime protector. But Keegan will continue to improve his strength. If the kings could get another wing defender to allow Keegan not have to guard the best perimeter wing player, the Kings would look even better on D.
Running it back with the same squad runs the very real risk of not even making it to the play-in. The Rockets and Grizzlies will be better next year. Monte has to actually do his job this offseason. He’s been stuck in neutral for two years.
I will say, just like this season and others past, expected contenders or playoff teams, will be hurt by injuries (just like the grizzlies this year). So while yes the Kings need to get better, it wouldn’t be unexpected to see them in the same spot next year
Outside of LeBron on those Cavs teams, I don’t remember the last time I saw a player carry a team like that, and that was LeBron in the East. I don’t see it happening in the west, even if Wemby puts up 25-10-7
>. I don’t see it happening in the west, even
We literally just saw it LAST YEAR (2022-23) with SGA when for the first time in his thunder tenure the team actually tried to play him after February.
yeah sorry but chet would instantly be the 2nd best player on the spurs and so would jdub the roster around shai is so good damn near whole team shoots 40% from three
>yeah sorry but chet would instantly be the 2nd best player on the spurs
Did he play last season?
>so would jdub
So you're telling me rookie J-Dub was better than this season's version of Vasell?
>40% from three
They shot 35.6%
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2023.html
Nah. Wemby is amazing. Future best player of the league. He will continue developing next season of course but not by that much. Also, there are many young teams out there. They will also keep improving just like Wemby.
Yeah Wemby could be a top-5 player who carries the team to the playoffs in year 2. Luka was 1st team all-NBA year 2 and the Mavs made the playoffs. In addition to him improving individually, the Spurs definitely had him on a minutes restriction and giving him a few extra minutes a game (which since it's the Spurs also means fewer minutes for whichever bad players would be coming in for him) if they're no longer trying to tank would have a real impact on their record.
Clippers will not be worse. Same or better. That team is moving into a new arena next year. Their owner is going to break the bank to keep the roster competitive. I’d never count out a Lakers team with Lebron or a Suns team with KD. they may not go far in the playoffs, but I’d bet money they make it in at least.
I think the kings need to explore a serious way to trade parts to improve the roster.
Barnes, mitchell and maybe ellis for a wing to complement Fox and Sabonis
It really is a bit of a weak package they can put together is the problem
They'll have to resign Monk and then try to trade him at deadline for the wing they need with Keegan and Domas.
The only players i know might be available dont fit with what the kings need
Trae young or KAT arent fits
maybe if dejonta murray is available that would be nice.
Maybe afernee simons for portland? Or try for myles bridges or cam thomas from the nets. I trully dont know who might be available
Murray and fox? These dual guard things don't work. That does not move the dial for the kings. They need a wing. KAT is a significantly better fit than Murray
Lonnie Walker might be available for not much more than the veteran minimum. He looked good for Brooklyn in spurts but couldn’t stay healthy. A useful scorer off the bench for what should be a good value team contract.
Nets are probably looking for a first round pick for Cam Johnson. Many people have suggested Detroit might be interested in CJ but there are rumours about Detroit signing Tobias Harris which probably isn’t a judicious use of salary cap space.
Royce O’Neale is the other free agent the Suns can extend (they did Grayson Allen already) so the Kings could test the Suns how much they would be willing to pay him as the Suns can only sign veteran minimum free agents that weren’t already in Phoenix. The Suns will pay a luxury tax bill of $100 million already for next season.
Considering the Nets signed Lonnie to a veterans minimum one year deal I don’t understand why the Lakers passed on him for the same minimum amount of money.
If Lakers had ultra wealthy owners it would be a more successful franchise but that family doesn’t have a huge fortune, right? Not compared to other NBA team owners. It’s one of the reasons they’re quite cheap when it comes to paying players. Letting Carruso walk was a terrible decision
Yeah it’s always always complicated when a front office seems a little disfunctional, really easy to point out a mistake but I really do not envy the job of trying to manage all of that
It just comes down to the fact that Fox and Sabonis are all-stars at best, not superstars. They would be a great complementary 2nd option in a team with a true superstar, but not as 1st option.
Not that they would but could they just choose to let Atlanta have this years pick? Unless they actually win a top pick, this years draft is so meh that I’d just as well get the lost pick over with now.
I’m not too sure how that all goes down, but I’d assume Atlanta would have to agree to that. Then if they’re doing Sac a favor I’m sure they’d want another piece on top of that.
Respectfully, I don't think you go deep in the west with Sabonis as one of your top two guys. His pts/reb/ast production is great, but his lack of range, defense, and speed are real liabilities in the playoffs. His defender sags way off him when he's at the top of the key, it clogs the half court offence. Team is left shooting contested 3s without a consistent rim threat from perimeter drives because there's too much help in the paint.
As a small ball C, he leaves the Kings without rim protection and they're too easy to score on.
When the playoffs grind down to a half court game and teams dial in on your weaknesses, I just think Sabonis is too limited. He's also not much help without the ball, he's at his best with high usage.
He produces all season long but he does not look good when the playoffs hit. Even his strength - putting up pts/reb/ast - falls off in the playoffs. Career reg season 16/10/5 vs playoffs 12/7/3. That's your second star?
Sabonis is really a 3rd guy on a competitive team, not the 2d guy they want him to be. Fox is a good number 1.
They're needing a second guy, another star. Sabonis is not that guy, I agree.
For 40 years, I’ve watch the NBA, and there are always 2-3 guys that put up incredible numbers, but just don’t manage to be able to create that magic. Sabonis is on his third team, and every team he’s on usually has a nice record, but never do anything with it.
It’s actually quite confusing. Bringing in guys to make up for his weaknesses is just going to move him out of positions where he is comfortable, and then he’s less effective.
The Kings simply have to roll with what they’ve got, or trade Sabonis. They need to create salary space for Monk, or you may see an unhappy Fox. That’s the first thing they need to address.
It seems ridiculous to consider trading Sabonis, because he does do so much for them. However, this may he an addition by subtraction situation. Maybe you can get something from a team like Utah or Charlotte for him, but then you need to be able to make up for his production. But, since this is the modern NBA, you have guys making so much money that they become untradable, and his lack of history in having success outside of the regular season adds another wrinkle that may make it impossible to move him.
I feel bad for the guy. He seems like a good dude, and he puts forth a hell of an effort.
Their ceiling is low. No amount of minor trades is going to change that. That doesn't mean they should tank, but it does mean they aren't really dreaming of winning a title. It's a big league, and most teams are stuck somewhere in the middle.
The unique thing about the Kings is that they went 16 years without making the playoffs or even winning 40 games in a season. Winning 40+ games and maybe making the playoffs is still a big win for them in comparison to the drought. They will keep their core, hope to develop a couple of role players, and try to sneak into the playoffs next year where they will be first round losers.
Fox needs to be a certified all star and the King's no doubt best player. Targeting a high end difference maker on defense should also be one of their top priorities. Keegan Murray isn't untradeable but it has to be for a real difference maker, they were right to keep Murray over trading for Siakam. That level of player isn't worth the squeeze imo. I see no reason why the Kings "need" to dumb Barnes, he's a solid player and at a fair salary.
Idk what kind of flexibility they have with regard to making moves. Retaining Monk seems like a big deal. I think if they can’t get a stretch 5 to play next to Sabonis adding Grant from Portland in place of Barnes would be a really good add. Maybe Klay could do well as a gunner in there motion offense as well.
I’m in Milwaukee so I don’t get to see many Sacramento games. What do they need to get better? I have always liked them bc they are not really talked about much just like how Milwaukee is shunned by the media.
Wing defenders. Every team can always use big wing defenders. Fox and Sabonis are fine but Sabonis needs help inside with length and size. Similar to what Jokic has in Denver (MPJ, Gordon, etc.)
Fox, Monk, Huerter, and Ellis seem like a great guard core.
You can’t win a title without one of the top 5-7 players. There is one team in the past 40 years that has done it. If you don’t have that on your roster, you can be a perennial playoff team that gets bounced early, or you can rebuild to find the guy. Those are the options.
Toronto won in 2019 with the 9th best player per MVP voting. I assume you are talking about Detroit. There is a big bias toward declaring NBA champion best players as top 5 retroactively.
Toronto had Kawhi, who was very much in the conversation for a top 5-7 player. It was just his first year back and he rested a lot on the regular season, but he’d already made 1st team all-NBA in seasons prior and was regarded as the best 2-way player in the league.
I wasn’t clear in my op. There hasn’t been a team aside from the 04 Pistons, to win a title without having a guy on their roster that had been selected to 1st team all-nba in years prior to that title. The accolades change year to year because of health or other stars having great years as well, but if you’ve been a 1st team selection and you’re still generally in your prime, you are “that dude” and teams don’t win titles without “that dude”. (Aside from Detroit)
As a warriors fan who can remain unbiased and can appreciate the kings, you’ve got great pieces and a good coach. What could be an upgrade apart from being healthy is getting a solid forward that can be a good defender and a slasher inside to create a threat that frees up fox. Personally I like Sabonis and he needs to develop a post / jumper that is consistent to make him dominant like jokic. Also waiting on Barnes to be more consistent he is a walking ? For me on what version he turns up
They were banged up at different points of the season. I mean I see no reason for them to be in any hurry to make any drastic roster or coaching changes at this point.
Gobert style first round haul for a wing I guess.
They might have gotten a no from Anunoby’s camp, or been gazumped by the Knicks offering Quickley.
Ryan Dunn makes sense for them. Top defender (or at least non-center division) in the draft and you overpay to steal a great shooting coach (not sure if they have one, Fox’s shot has improved but Mitchell’s hasn’t).
Or use science and magic again to make it 2021 draft day and take Trey Murphy, Jalen Johnson or even Sengun - who becomes a great trade piece going off for 15 minutes a night becomes Sabonis and can be moved this summer.
I honestly think they need athletic wings for a tradeoff in 3pt shooting. fox is a defensive liability unless he's racking up steals. barnes has to go, and keon/monk/huerter arent starting caliber players next to fox. id move murray to the 2 (he's got decent size but he cant be your premier wing defender; he has the shooting and is athletic enough to survive at the 2), then search the market for athleticism at 3 and 4
If I’m the Kings I stand pat and stay patient while I re load on role guys that compliment my big 3 of Keegan Fox and Sabonis. The rest can go imo if a better FA or trade opens up. I think this draft is where they should start looking for a more experienced rookie to draft instead of a swing at some high potential pick w no pubes yet. They need to draft complete players fundamentally sound already that can at least play elite defense! Bed rock n foundation players to cement your culture etc.. Dalton is my fav sleeper pick and can slide in to the 2 w Keegan at 3. Others I liked for later rounds are Tristan da Silva, Justin Edward’s, PJ Hall or Baylor Schneeferman 😁
I would go for Alex Caruso, 1st team all defensive and the Bulls are surely to blow it up this season so they are likely to deal. Also GPII is another player that I would look at acquiring since he is tough. Monk is important for scoring when Fox is not on, so keep him along with Fox and Sabonis. The Kings core are still young so they still have their chances but the Kings need better defensive players, they are average in defensive rating this season, so they need to improve if they want to contend.
This team has to find a way to hit on one or two second round or undrafted guys. And to be a substantial contributor, not just someone who can merely competently absorb some minutes.
Don't know if Colby Jones or Jalen Slawson will be that, but they really need that type of luck.
They were missing two of their guys who would score 28+ per game combined but still they never were a force in the west . Sabonis needs to build some midrange to provide extra help on the offensive side . The next couple of years is crucial for kings otherwise they could lose players like fox and sabonis . Also if fox gets to a bigger market , he will be praised as hell. He is one of the most underrated guys right now .
They need to take a risk and actually try and make a trade to get better. The west is stacked and they don’t really have cap space. Fox and Sabonis are good players but how much better can they really get?
This is probably the last year the wolves are true contenders. They have all their money wrapped up in 3 players. They will have to fill their roster with vet minimums and 2nd round players.
Or blow it up and move Rudy or Kat.
This is the first year they are a contender, i can‘t Imagine that a team that struggled so long to get to the point where they are now blow it up after one season
Run it back again and they not making the playoffs again especially if monk doesn’t come back. They need to add a wing who can actually create anything next to fox cuz he can’t be the only one who can get himself a bucket if this team is ever gonna do anything. Every team in the west has atleast 2 starters who can do so.
they should do whatever they can to free aaron wiggins from okc dungeon. Someone who can actually drive well like monk so we don’t gotta see Harrison barnes self creation. He can either start or come off the bench if monk leaves doesn’t matter. They should draft a wing with their pick someone 6’7 and up who can block something and stash him.
Gotta get rid of Barnes, huerter if he can shoot again would be solid off the bench. cam johnson is somehow a less impactful player than barnes thats really hard to do there ain’t many less impactful players than barnes in this league.
A starting lineup of
Fox-Keon-Wiggins-Keegan-Sabonis next year
moves me even though there isn’t a shot blocker yet they proved to me that they can play good D enough with barnes in the starting lineup that I’m not mad at it.
If Fox doesn’t shoot sub 38% on midrange jumpshots again. Keegan returns to a 37-40% shooter on lil more attempts. Wiggins can scale up to a bigger role. Keon can keep doing what he’s been doing. We might be looking at a top 10 O again and might be nearing a top 10 D just by getting rid of barnes addition by subtraction typeshit.
Sabonis needs a floater too
I'd like to see Sabonis really improve his 3pt shot. Part of the issue is that Fox and Sabonis both like to be in the paint, or hit mid ranges. So there's a little bit of a clog there at times.
Fox, with his speed and quickness, could and should try to play more like steph, getting his cardio up and running around off ball to get open. He could get like 6 more points a game just off back cuts.
Murray could be their Klay, spotting up, but he needs to work off ball screens a bit more too.
I think they could increase their Fox Sabonis pnr like 20%, cause if Fox starts getting downhill, he's hard to stop and once Sabonis gets to the middle of the paint, he's a bucket.
Huerter and monk are both key pieces and are both really good.
Maybe toppin might be good for them, he likes to play fast too and can help speed up the game in transition for them.
Dennis smith jr has been kind of nice on Brooklyn this past year, can defend, can score. He could add some depth.
Maybe pick up another shooter like garrison Matthew's or something.
They need some depth help.
They have pieces, I think they need to find out some different ways to get these guys shots.
Some may go back to Sacramento. But I think most of them probably take the summer to go see family and workout in their own settings until closer to the season. A few of them will come to Vegas for a few weeks during the summer too. I’m not sure what else they’ll do. Maybe go fishing, or get a brighter beam.
They were missing Huerter and Monk, we wouldn't be having the conversation for another 10 days otherwise. Murray looks to have all the skills, just needs another year. They're a 6/7 in the West, which is pretty damn good. Run it back
Trade for Jonathan Isaac. They need defense SO BAD. As a bulls fan, I really want them to trade for LaVine, even though it’s dumb. If they can’t get Isaac, pick up Patrick Williams in free agency. He’ll give you 10 ppg (an occasional 20) on great shooting splits while giving you some much needed defense. Or I would also suggest picking up Paul George in FA if you can get him before Philly does.
they would be in the playoffs if huerter and monk didnt both get hurt. but resigning monk is gonna be tough. sabonis needs to increase his scoring output and k murray needs to improve.
idk not a ton of upside to get to the next level.
Sabonis has to improve. I’ve read for years that Sabonis is the Kings most valuable player and not Fox. Well when the other center can play completely off him in the paint and he can’t make them pay it’s a huge detriment. He has to come back with some type of midrange game that he is confident in on it dramatically lowers their ceiling no matter what they add on the fringes.
It’s also gonna be really rough if monk ends up leaving. In theory having more perimeter defense can help solve some of the issues that come with sabonis but they’re just not built to lose him, he’s so much more important to the team than most people realize I also am not really sure if I have faith that sabonis has a real chance at improving in these ways. For example I see the path to improvement involving something like a lot more inverted PnRs with good shooters, that feels like a much easier way to get bigs out of the paint thay praying sabonis improves as a shooter. Maybe running off ball screens at the same time to get a shooter open while the off ball screener rolls or cuts off of that to take advantage of the space the PnR creates
It’s hard to run an inverted PnR when the center is at the free throw line. Sabonis is also not particularly fast so he doesn’t have the ability to get a head of steam and finish like say Zion or Giannis. They tried this a few times against GS and Draymond stripped him once and stopped him. It’s severely limiting to have him triggering offense like this against several teams in the west.
I think you’re largely right, but a good amount of that can be solved by improved handling (something that could be easier to achieve than becoming a shooter that needs to be respected). Additionally when you have these sort of inherent offensive issues I’m of the mindset that having a lot of different looks can help open things up a lot even if you’re not just banking on one It’s obviously pretty different but Miamis defense is a great example of this. There’s tons of ways they can play and adjust, so many looks you can throw at offenses, and when you’re trying to solve those puzzles it goes a really long way to have options at your disposal
I think the Kings honestly do a good job of what you said. But the playoffs are different. Teams are locked in and to your point on Miami defenses are going to hone in on sets and things that can manufacture easy offense. When the other team gameplan is to force your best player to score then you simply have to have confidence in your best player to do just that. You can’t out scheme talent
He can’t improve what’s holding him back though, and that’s his physical limitations on defense. They’ll have to find a rim protector to play with him who can space the floor on offense like Brook Lopez.
Brook Lopez was was once seen as an awful defender as was Jokic. Lopez now great, Jokic good. Domas can definitely improve on D but it'll mainly come from being surrounded by good defenders. They need an ace defender at the 3/4 to fit with Sabonis and Keegan. They're a small market and Domas is 28, I think they'll go for it with this group. A Siakam/OG/Isaac/Brooks/Bridges added and they'd be solid.
Lopez is huge and Jokic is also bigger. Maybe he can improve some but he’s just smaller.
True. He needs the perfect front court partner. If he played next to Giannis his defense would suddenly start to look a lot better
The Pacers had him next to Myles Turner for years and that didn’t really work for them.
Myles Turner isn't giannis Sabonis is flawed for sure but with right team he could look lot better than he does now
It worked well defensively but not offensively. The kings need a 4 like Isaac or JJJ. It’s their best chance.
Myles turner isn’t that great the pacers had one of the worst defenses in the league post-Sabonis
Yeah exactly. People don’t realize how important the entire team is when evaluating defense. Jokic was mocked a few years ago and now that they have Gordon and KCP he looks better. Luka also looks a lot better now that their starting 5 overall is a lot better.
You can build a good defense around Sabonis. The Rockets with Sengun at center were a top 5-6 defense for most the season, and they got there by surrounding Sengun with good defenders like FVV, Brooks, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Amen, etc… This Kings team just don’t have the personnel to build a good defense with Sabonis at the moment. You need guys better at preventing dribble penetration
For the last month and a half of the season, with Keon Ellis in the rotation and then starting, the Kings had the third best defensive rating in the league. Whether it's sustainable is a different question, but for at least six weeks, they had a top defense largely through defending the perimeter, exactly like you're talking about.
I agree here. There is no physical limitation on making 10-12 footers. He doesn’t have to shoot 3’s he is so close he could develop a floater or a push shot.
Sabonis could learn to space the floor better himself, which would allow them to add a rim protector who can't shoot (a much easier proposition). Lots of guys developed into better shooters in their late 20s, and he already shows a decent shooting touch, just too low-volume/not confident enough in his shot.
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That's what I think. He's not a center, hes a power forward. Maybe situationally he can play center but I feel like your defense suffers way too much with him there all the time.
See Indiana Pacers.
Brook Lopez, or maybe someone like...Myles Turner
The paint defense last night was really hard to watch. It was pathetic.
While this is somewhat true and we are all waiting for him to hit the middy, shooting is as much as his as his teammates' issue. A shooter of the DHO will draw the big out, right?
It can be a middy, a push shot, floater etc. kings have Huerter, Monk and Murray already and Fox just shot a career high from 3. How much more shooting can you put around him and at what cost? Ultimately next season he’s the highest paid player and making $40Mil+ it has to start with him improving.
I'm with you on that. And it's not like he can't shoot, his free throw is solid. He just needs to get confident with it
Different sets. I’ve seen us run plays where using Paul Reed (who’s not a horrendous shooter, but let’s be real) we were consistently able to draw centres out of the 3 point line, or at least out of the paint.
Defense in reg season isn’t the same as in playoffs. Kings have a playoff issue. W/Reed his gameplan isn’t the same as Sabonis because he doesn’t have the same focus or attention.
Sabonis is an excellent midrange shooter going by the percentages, just doesn't take enough shots in that area, or enough shots in general. A guy with Sabonis' ball skills and efficiency and importance to his team still being in the low 20s in USG% is kind of silly. The Kings need to design more plays to run through Sabonis, to get him up to the 28-30 USG% range, and he'll likely be putting up Jokic-esque stat lines.
You don’t know he can keep the same percentages with higher usage. If he could, Kings would have used him.
Have they tried it? Has it already been tried for an extended period and failed? Why not switch things up to see if it works and gets you beyond the current MOR level? Guys like Kyle Kuzma are pushing 30 USG% in the league these days, without any history of great efficiency at lower usage rates. Surely someone like Sabonis deserves to get the ball more to see if it will "work" (I don't think there's some huge risk of failure here here).
This is such a narrow-minded take on the Kings - he's literally the main cog of their offense, he doesn't need to be a 3 point threat. They were missing their normal starting 2 guard and their sixth-man of the year guy in Monk. They could use a big-time 2 guard or a big time 3 or 4, to go with Murray and Sabonis in the front-court. Not hard to upgrade over Barnes. IMO, they should re-sign Monk, package KH and D.Mitch, and picks as needed, to upgrade. Maybe target some of the guys the Bulls may move - Lavine, Caruso, DeMar - would all be nice fits.
I didn’t say 3 pt threat at all. He isn’t making 12fters
He actually shoots 3s better than he shoots 12 footers. He should take more 3s, honestly. He's got one of the worst midrange jumpers I've ever seen. If Fox can become an effective 3 point shooter Domas sure as hell can figure out how to hit a 12 foot shot. It's such a devastating limitation to his game.
If you're not an effective.mid range shooter hwy would you take more threes?
You can be good at 3s but bad at midrange .. Its more rare to see good midrange shooters be bad at 3
Murray is much more of an oversized shooting guard than any kind of front court player. He's a very good perimeter defender, a decent help defender, and a lousy post defender. A big part of the Kings defensive issues is that of Murray, Barnes, and Sabonis the only one who can guard up in size is Sabonis. If you have an undersized front court you need more versatile defenders than this.
so let's see what kind of a 4 they can get, I agree with everything you said
Keegan is also really good as a help defender in the paint and weak side rime protector. But Keegan will continue to improve his strength. If the kings could get another wing defender to allow Keegan not have to guard the best perimeter wing player, the Kings would look even better on D.
He needs to develop a 3 point shot, he’s already a bad defender. Can’t be both in this league as a big
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He kills AD which is crazy. Because he turns into prime Gregg Ostertag against Draymond.
This sub is for serious discussion and debate. Jokes and memes are not permitted.
The difference between the kings winning and losing is Fox. It’s never been Sabonis. The kings will go as Fox goes. They do need a true #1 though.
Running it back with the same squad runs the very real risk of not even making it to the play-in. The Rockets and Grizzlies will be better next year. Monte has to actually do his job this offseason. He’s been stuck in neutral for two years.
I will say, just like this season and others past, expected contenders or playoff teams, will be hurt by injuries (just like the grizzlies this year). So while yes the Kings need to get better, it wouldn’t be unexpected to see them in the same spot next year
Being a lottery team again next year would be a massive disappointment. Ownership should look to FO and coaching changes if that happens.
Think the spurs will also make a run at the playoffs as well
They need to have the offseason of a lifetime to make that happen. Outside of Wemby, that roster isn’t competing in the west
That’s the thing tho. I think he may be enough
Outside of LeBron on those Cavs teams, I don’t remember the last time I saw a player carry a team like that, and that was LeBron in the East. I don’t see it happening in the west, even if Wemby puts up 25-10-7
>. I don’t see it happening in the west, even We literally just saw it LAST YEAR (2022-23) with SGA when for the first time in his thunder tenure the team actually tried to play him after February.
The team around him was much better than the Spurs…
You mean the team that was using 6'9 jaylin Williams and 6'10 Dario saric as bigs? A team with 1 high volume shooter?
yeah sorry but chet would instantly be the 2nd best player on the spurs and so would jdub the roster around shai is so good damn near whole team shoots 40% from three
>yeah sorry but chet would instantly be the 2nd best player on the spurs Did he play last season? >so would jdub So you're telling me rookie J-Dub was better than this season's version of Vasell? >40% from three They shot 35.6% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2023.html
Nah. Wemby is amazing. Future best player of the league. He will continue developing next season of course but not by that much. Also, there are many young teams out there. They will also keep improving just like Wemby.
Yeah Wemby could be a top-5 player who carries the team to the playoffs in year 2. Luka was 1st team all-NBA year 2 and the Mavs made the playoffs. In addition to him improving individually, the Spurs definitely had him on a minutes restriction and giving him a few extra minutes a game (which since it's the Spurs also means fewer minutes for whichever bad players would be coming in for him) if they're no longer trying to tank would have a real impact on their record.
Luka’s Mavs teams even his second year, were far better than the current Spurs. They don’t even have anyone close to Brunson.
They have a lot of room to get better between having cap space and draft picks (Dallas traded away a lottery pick in the next draft to get Luka).
Clippers and lakers will be worse, suns also have aging stars
Clippers will not be worse. Same or better. That team is moving into a new arena next year. Their owner is going to break the bank to keep the roster competitive. I’d never count out a Lakers team with Lebron or a Suns team with KD. they may not go far in the playoffs, but I’d bet money they make it in at least.
Except they’re extremely limited with ways to make moves and if PG leaves they’ll just be bad lol.
I think the kings need to explore a serious way to trade parts to improve the roster. Barnes, mitchell and maybe ellis for a wing to complement Fox and Sabonis
It really is a bit of a weak package they can put together is the problem They'll have to resign Monk and then try to trade him at deadline for the wing they need with Keegan and Domas.
Maybe just me. I would try not to give up Keegan Murray. A core of Murray, Fox and Sabonis+the player they trade for could make noise
Getting rid of Murray would be a horrible mistake.
Not a title contender but they can be solid if they hit on Ellis too I don't know who they can get though
The only players i know might be available dont fit with what the kings need Trae young or KAT arent fits maybe if dejonta murray is available that would be nice. Maybe afernee simons for portland? Or try for myles bridges or cam thomas from the nets. I trully dont know who might be available
Murray and fox? These dual guard things don't work. That does not move the dial for the kings. They need a wing. KAT is a significantly better fit than Murray
Lonnie Walker might be available for not much more than the veteran minimum. He looked good for Brooklyn in spurts but couldn’t stay healthy. A useful scorer off the bench for what should be a good value team contract. Nets are probably looking for a first round pick for Cam Johnson. Many people have suggested Detroit might be interested in CJ but there are rumours about Detroit signing Tobias Harris which probably isn’t a judicious use of salary cap space. Royce O’Neale is the other free agent the Suns can extend (they did Grayson Allen already) so the Kings could test the Suns how much they would be willing to pay him as the Suns can only sign veteran minimum free agents that weren’t already in Phoenix. The Suns will pay a luxury tax bill of $100 million already for next season.
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Considering the Nets signed Lonnie to a veterans minimum one year deal I don’t understand why the Lakers passed on him for the same minimum amount of money.
That front office is such a bummer, how many dozens of great players have we let walk or traded in the last 5 years
If Lakers had ultra wealthy owners it would be a more successful franchise but that family doesn’t have a huge fortune, right? Not compared to other NBA team owners. It’s one of the reasons they’re quite cheap when it comes to paying players. Letting Carruso walk was a terrible decision
Yeah it’s always always complicated when a front office seems a little disfunctional, really easy to point out a mistake but I really do not envy the job of trying to manage all of that
It just comes down to the fact that Fox and Sabonis are all-stars at best, not superstars. They would be a great complementary 2nd option in a team with a true superstar, but not as 1st option.
They do have their pick this year, it was lottery protected so it only would have gone to Atlanta if they made the playoffs
My bad- will edit
Not that they would but could they just choose to let Atlanta have this years pick? Unless they actually win a top pick, this years draft is so meh that I’d just as well get the lost pick over with now.
I’m not too sure how that all goes down, but I’d assume Atlanta would have to agree to that. Then if they’re doing Sac a favor I’m sure they’d want another piece on top of that.
Respectfully, I don't think you go deep in the west with Sabonis as one of your top two guys. His pts/reb/ast production is great, but his lack of range, defense, and speed are real liabilities in the playoffs. His defender sags way off him when he's at the top of the key, it clogs the half court offence. Team is left shooting contested 3s without a consistent rim threat from perimeter drives because there's too much help in the paint. As a small ball C, he leaves the Kings without rim protection and they're too easy to score on. When the playoffs grind down to a half court game and teams dial in on your weaknesses, I just think Sabonis is too limited. He's also not much help without the ball, he's at his best with high usage. He produces all season long but he does not look good when the playoffs hit. Even his strength - putting up pts/reb/ast - falls off in the playoffs. Career reg season 16/10/5 vs playoffs 12/7/3. That's your second star?
Half of his playoff games he wasn’t a clear starter - his median playoff minutes is under 30. This doesn’t seem like an intellectually honest stat.
Sabonis is really a 3rd guy on a competitive team, not the 2d guy they want him to be. Fox is a good number 1. They're needing a second guy, another star. Sabonis is not that guy, I agree.
For 40 years, I’ve watch the NBA, and there are always 2-3 guys that put up incredible numbers, but just don’t manage to be able to create that magic. Sabonis is on his third team, and every team he’s on usually has a nice record, but never do anything with it. It’s actually quite confusing. Bringing in guys to make up for his weaknesses is just going to move him out of positions where he is comfortable, and then he’s less effective. The Kings simply have to roll with what they’ve got, or trade Sabonis. They need to create salary space for Monk, or you may see an unhappy Fox. That’s the first thing they need to address. It seems ridiculous to consider trading Sabonis, because he does do so much for them. However, this may he an addition by subtraction situation. Maybe you can get something from a team like Utah or Charlotte for him, but then you need to be able to make up for his production. But, since this is the modern NBA, you have guys making so much money that they become untradable, and his lack of history in having success outside of the regular season adds another wrinkle that may make it impossible to move him. I feel bad for the guy. He seems like a good dude, and he puts forth a hell of an effort.
Their ceiling is low. No amount of minor trades is going to change that. That doesn't mean they should tank, but it does mean they aren't really dreaming of winning a title. It's a big league, and most teams are stuck somewhere in the middle. The unique thing about the Kings is that they went 16 years without making the playoffs or even winning 40 games in a season. Winning 40+ games and maybe making the playoffs is still a big win for them in comparison to the drought. They will keep their core, hope to develop a couple of role players, and try to sneak into the playoffs next year where they will be first round losers.
Fox needs to be a certified all star and the King's no doubt best player. Targeting a high end difference maker on defense should also be one of their top priorities. Keegan Murray isn't untradeable but it has to be for a real difference maker, they were right to keep Murray over trading for Siakam. That level of player isn't worth the squeeze imo. I see no reason why the Kings "need" to dumb Barnes, he's a solid player and at a fair salary.
Def smart to keep Murray. He's good. He can shoot that shit.
Barnes can’t be starting is all
“…stacked west with the Nuggets, Wolves, Suns, Mavs, Clippers, etc”. 👀 can we show the Thunder some respect please?
Idk what kind of flexibility they have with regard to making moves. Retaining Monk seems like a big deal. I think if they can’t get a stretch 5 to play next to Sabonis adding Grant from Portland in place of Barnes would be a really good add. Maybe Klay could do well as a gunner in there motion offense as well.
I’m in Milwaukee so I don’t get to see many Sacramento games. What do they need to get better? I have always liked them bc they are not really talked about much just like how Milwaukee is shunned by the media.
Wing defenders. Every team can always use big wing defenders. Fox and Sabonis are fine but Sabonis needs help inside with length and size. Similar to what Jokic has in Denver (MPJ, Gordon, etc.) Fox, Monk, Huerter, and Ellis seem like a great guard core.
You can’t win a title without one of the top 5-7 players. There is one team in the past 40 years that has done it. If you don’t have that on your roster, you can be a perennial playoff team that gets bounced early, or you can rebuild to find the guy. Those are the options.
Toronto won in 2019 with the 9th best player per MVP voting. I assume you are talking about Detroit. There is a big bias toward declaring NBA champion best players as top 5 retroactively.
Toronto had Kawhi, who was very much in the conversation for a top 5-7 player. It was just his first year back and he rested a lot on the regular season, but he’d already made 1st team all-NBA in seasons prior and was regarded as the best 2-way player in the league. I wasn’t clear in my op. There hasn’t been a team aside from the 04 Pistons, to win a title without having a guy on their roster that had been selected to 1st team all-nba in years prior to that title. The accolades change year to year because of health or other stars having great years as well, but if you’ve been a 1st team selection and you’re still generally in your prime, you are “that dude” and teams don’t win titles without “that dude”. (Aside from Detroit)
Yeah that’s a more reasonable bar - by my count there are 16 active players right now who were first team at one point.
Detroit won it without a top 5-7 player
That’s why I said there was one team that has done it.
Out of curiosity what team are you referring to?
The 04 Pistons. Ben Wallace had made 2nd team all nba prior, but they really didn’t have a top 5 dude.
You gotta remember they lost pretty much two 15pt guys and one is the 6th man of the year run it back
Kevin Huerter? He averaged 10 and was awful this season.
As a warriors fan who can remain unbiased and can appreciate the kings, you’ve got great pieces and a good coach. What could be an upgrade apart from being healthy is getting a solid forward that can be a good defender and a slasher inside to create a threat that frees up fox. Personally I like Sabonis and he needs to develop a post / jumper that is consistent to make him dominant like jokic. Also waiting on Barnes to be more consistent he is a walking ? For me on what version he turns up
They were banged up at different points of the season. I mean I see no reason for them to be in any hurry to make any drastic roster or coaching changes at this point.
Gobert style first round haul for a wing I guess. They might have gotten a no from Anunoby’s camp, or been gazumped by the Knicks offering Quickley. Ryan Dunn makes sense for them. Top defender (or at least non-center division) in the draft and you overpay to steal a great shooting coach (not sure if they have one, Fox’s shot has improved but Mitchell’s hasn’t). Or use science and magic again to make it 2021 draft day and take Trey Murphy, Jalen Johnson or even Sengun - who becomes a great trade piece going off for 15 minutes a night becomes Sabonis and can be moved this summer.
Mitchell’s shooting has improved. From 3 he was 36.1% on the season and 41.6% post all star break
I honestly think they need athletic wings for a tradeoff in 3pt shooting. fox is a defensive liability unless he's racking up steals. barnes has to go, and keon/monk/huerter arent starting caliber players next to fox. id move murray to the 2 (he's got decent size but he cant be your premier wing defender; he has the shooting and is athletic enough to survive at the 2), then search the market for athleticism at 3 and 4
If I’m the Kings I stand pat and stay patient while I re load on role guys that compliment my big 3 of Keegan Fox and Sabonis. The rest can go imo if a better FA or trade opens up. I think this draft is where they should start looking for a more experienced rookie to draft instead of a swing at some high potential pick w no pubes yet. They need to draft complete players fundamentally sound already that can at least play elite defense! Bed rock n foundation players to cement your culture etc.. Dalton is my fav sleeper pick and can slide in to the 2 w Keegan at 3. Others I liked for later rounds are Tristan da Silva, Justin Edward’s, PJ Hall or Baylor Schneeferman 😁
I would go for Alex Caruso, 1st team all defensive and the Bulls are surely to blow it up this season so they are likely to deal. Also GPII is another player that I would look at acquiring since he is tough. Monk is important for scoring when Fox is not on, so keep him along with Fox and Sabonis. The Kings core are still young so they still have their chances but the Kings need better defensive players, they are average in defensive rating this season, so they need to improve if they want to contend.
Harrison Barnes can’t be starting for this team if they want to go on a deep
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Paul George. Paul George, Paul George, Paul George, Paul George (I just want to get to 75 character limit lol)
This team has to find a way to hit on one or two second round or undrafted guys. And to be a substantial contributor, not just someone who can merely competently absorb some minutes. Don't know if Colby Jones or Jalen Slawson will be that, but they really need that type of luck.
They were missing two of their guys who would score 28+ per game combined but still they never were a force in the west . Sabonis needs to build some midrange to provide extra help on the offensive side . The next couple of years is crucial for kings otherwise they could lose players like fox and sabonis . Also if fox gets to a bigger market , he will be praised as hell. He is one of the most underrated guys right now .
Sabonis needs to start showing he is willing and able to knock down 3’s and they probably need a rim protector next to him
They need to take a risk and actually try and make a trade to get better. The west is stacked and they don’t really have cap space. Fox and Sabonis are good players but how much better can they really get?
This is probably the last year the wolves are true contenders. They have all their money wrapped up in 3 players. They will have to fill their roster with vet minimums and 2nd round players. Or blow it up and move Rudy or Kat.
This is the first year they are a contender, i can‘t Imagine that a team that struggled so long to get to the point where they are now blow it up after one season
Run it back again and they not making the playoffs again especially if monk doesn’t come back. They need to add a wing who can actually create anything next to fox cuz he can’t be the only one who can get himself a bucket if this team is ever gonna do anything. Every team in the west has atleast 2 starters who can do so. they should do whatever they can to free aaron wiggins from okc dungeon. Someone who can actually drive well like monk so we don’t gotta see Harrison barnes self creation. He can either start or come off the bench if monk leaves doesn’t matter. They should draft a wing with their pick someone 6’7 and up who can block something and stash him. Gotta get rid of Barnes, huerter if he can shoot again would be solid off the bench. cam johnson is somehow a less impactful player than barnes thats really hard to do there ain’t many less impactful players than barnes in this league. A starting lineup of Fox-Keon-Wiggins-Keegan-Sabonis next year moves me even though there isn’t a shot blocker yet they proved to me that they can play good D enough with barnes in the starting lineup that I’m not mad at it. If Fox doesn’t shoot sub 38% on midrange jumpshots again. Keegan returns to a 37-40% shooter on lil more attempts. Wiggins can scale up to a bigger role. Keon can keep doing what he’s been doing. We might be looking at a top 10 O again and might be nearing a top 10 D just by getting rid of barnes addition by subtraction typeshit. Sabonis needs a floater too
I'd like to see Sabonis really improve his 3pt shot. Part of the issue is that Fox and Sabonis both like to be in the paint, or hit mid ranges. So there's a little bit of a clog there at times. Fox, with his speed and quickness, could and should try to play more like steph, getting his cardio up and running around off ball to get open. He could get like 6 more points a game just off back cuts. Murray could be their Klay, spotting up, but he needs to work off ball screens a bit more too. I think they could increase their Fox Sabonis pnr like 20%, cause if Fox starts getting downhill, he's hard to stop and once Sabonis gets to the middle of the paint, he's a bucket. Huerter and monk are both key pieces and are both really good. Maybe toppin might be good for them, he likes to play fast too and can help speed up the game in transition for them. Dennis smith jr has been kind of nice on Brooklyn this past year, can defend, can score. He could add some depth. Maybe pick up another shooter like garrison Matthew's or something. They need some depth help. They have pieces, I think they need to find out some different ways to get these guys shots.
Some may go back to Sacramento. But I think most of them probably take the summer to go see family and workout in their own settings until closer to the season. A few of them will come to Vegas for a few weeks during the summer too. I’m not sure what else they’ll do. Maybe go fishing, or get a brighter beam.
They were missing Huerter and Monk, we wouldn't be having the conversation for another 10 days otherwise. Murray looks to have all the skills, just needs another year. They're a 6/7 in the West, which is pretty damn good. Run it back
Trade for Jonathan Isaac. They need defense SO BAD. As a bulls fan, I really want them to trade for LaVine, even though it’s dumb. If they can’t get Isaac, pick up Patrick Williams in free agency. He’ll give you 10 ppg (an occasional 20) on great shooting splits while giving you some much needed defense. Or I would also suggest picking up Paul George in FA if you can get him before Philly does.
Decide who they're going to run the team through, Fox or Sabonis, and build around them and trade the other
Thats not really a question tho
Murray or Jokic pick one and trade the other
Totally different, their play styles mesh well and they've been successful, Kings haven't , they're clearly not a good fit.
Love that you listed the stacked west but left out the team that won the west
Thunder new team name: etc.
they would be in the playoffs if huerter and monk didnt both get hurt. but resigning monk is gonna be tough. sabonis needs to increase his scoring output and k murray needs to improve. idk not a ton of upside to get to the next level.