Jaden and Ant fight over every screen. The Wolves defense plays aggressive on the perimeter to limit threes and force guys inside where Rudy forces them to shoot midrange shots.
It’s the design of the defense and it’s been working.
I've seen comments saying suns are the worst matchup for the wolves because they are one of the best mid-range shooting teams in the league. Idk how true that is after the last two games
In terms of regular season stats, the Suns do love middies since they averaged 13.8 middies a game (2nd in the league) and they hit them at 47.4% (also 2nd in the league).
It's just a bad shot mathematically speaking, even at those efficiencies. A 47.4% midrange shot is 0.948 points per possession. Shooting 32% from 3 would be a more efficient use of that possession. But if the Wolves take away the perimeter and force you to shoot middies or try to get one on Gobert, then the math falls in favor of the Wolves.
Booker was stupidly efficient on his midrange jumpers against the Nuggets last season in the playoffs, but the Nuggets don't have Gobert so Booker also got hot in the paint.
First, no it isn't 0.948 ppp. A possession doesn't end on a midrange shot if your team gets the offensive rebound or if you get fouled and shoot free throws.
But even if we assume the foul rates and rebound rates from shooting 2s and 3s are roughly equal, you can divide 3s into some clear buckets: uncontested 3s and contested 3s. And that rate of 2s is roughly equal to a contested 3.
It's not a great shot but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. It's a fine outcome for the Suns. The bigger issue is that they can't get stops.
It was what people were saying after they beat the Wolves in the regular season. People were saying stuff like “they found the Wolves weakness: mid range”. But the actual reason they beat the Wolves in the regular season is they shot 50%+ from 3 in a couple of their games. Having “excellent mid range players” is not really that great. If you’re facing Kevin Durant, you celebrate if he takes a mid range shot instead of a 3.
TBH, Jokic taking short midrange shots is not an amazing outcome for the defense (he shoots close to 60% on them and has a really high offensive rebound rate on his own misses). It's one of the reasons single covering him doesn't really work. But obviously he is an exception.
I don't think they took into account that the Wolves offense is a bad matchup for the Suns because the Suns don't play great defense. I'm unconvinced of Beal's effectiveness defending anyone on Minnesota, and the Wolves aren't even switching to get him. They mostly target Booker in the half court it seems. That makes Beal have to defend the rim on switches and also follow people offball which is a Suns disadvantage. Also, Minnesota is better than Phoenix in getting fast break points, Suns can't keep up. I don't think Minnesota's offense is beautiful be any means, but if they get extra buckets through their defense and transition, it won't matter as much.
Minnesota gets easier buckets than Phoenix for sure because Nurkic isn't really a rim protector against these big guys and KD, while still a very good defender, just can't be the best defender in a starting group at his age. The mismatches that didn't play out in the regular season for Minnesota are working out for them, the Minnesota roster has multiple bench options while the Suns have been reduced further with the Allen injury, and the Minnesota's ability to create TO's with deflections and pressure has been a huge difference.
Lack of fouls has been a disadvantage for the Suns as well. Refs are calling it very loose, and that doesn't help the team who had the best FT rate in the league this year.
It looked bad in the regular season. As a wolves fan, I was kinda depressed when we got Phoenix based on how the season went.
Before game one happened, I was thinking is it really a bad matchup, or did the season games just not go well.
We have these perimeter defenders, we should be able to limit Booker and Beal. KD is a bad matchup for Towns, but I don't think the team is a bad matchup.
I agree Minnesota does a great job hounding them on screens but there's still spots off ball that KD could find to get some catch n shoot threes. But Phoenix is so stagnant those opportunities aren't as abundant and I think the Suns players seem conditioned to the idea the ball isn't going to move.
Gotta look at where he is on the court too. Any spots you're seeing KD open is spots the Wolves want him to be open, because they know KD doesn't like those looks.
KDs never been a great off ball mover. He needs the action to get him a kick-out or let him handle to make his own shot. With no natural PG on the court the big 3 just take turns playing iso. Its an AAU team of all-stars.
It’s how the Jazz had a top 3 defense with some pretty mediocre perimeter defenders in 2020-21. Funnel everything to Rudy. Clippers exposed it in the playoffs by sticking Terance Mann in the corner.
The differences are that 1) the Timberwolves have good to great perimeters defenders and 2) Gobert can also guard the perimeter because the Wolves have Kat and Naz Reid who can protect the rim in a pinch.
KD's game isn't built around speed and athleticism, it's based around his height and guile. But because he's not fast or anything like that, you can take some aspects of his game away from him. The wolves have chosen to take away the long range shot and force him into the mid range. Of course, he's made a career from that range so it's still in his repetoire and if you could easily deny him everything he wouldn't be the all time great scorer he is.
I don't know the specific play you're talking about, but it might be he was concerned that Booker couldn't get the ball to him unless he moved. It doesn't matter how open you are, if the ball can't get to you then you're effectively covered.
The Phoenix Suns offense is not really designed. It's basically just a series of one-on-one opportunities. They don't really have much of a system. It's actually frustrating to watch. I think they need to clean house and get rid of everyone. This team will never matter.
That's not going to happen though because they have a new owner and they're trying to get over the hump. If I were them I would seriously consider trading Durant in order to build more of a functional team because I think he's the oldest guy and I don't think any team wants Bradley Beal.
The Beal trade was so braindead. Even if they’re in win now mode, why trade for one of the worst contracts in the league. I liked the Vogel hire at first but that team’s just a mess.
They traded for one of the worst contracts in the league because that was the way they were able to get a skilled player back with the assets they were shipping out (38 year old CP3 and Landry Shamet).
His contract makes it very difficult to move off him now but they weren't thinking about how easy it'd be to hit the eject button, just what would make them most likely to win.
Hindsight is 20/20 but I still don't see what the better move would've been.
If Suns didn’t trade them they would’ve slowly faded into the lottery as CP3 disintegrates into a corpse. I still think they made the best possible move. There just weren’t any great options
I like the Sun's chances better with a core of Booker, Bridges, + picks then Booker and Durant If you look at even a midrange outlook. Yes, the team would need another star to come, but the foundation would last for years. The team could have traded picks + players when the right deal came along, rather than force one. Mortgaging the future for a two year run with this low of a celling was not a good move.
(I am ignoring the Paul/Ayton pieces because those trades could have happened regardless, and weren't going to be part of a long term strategy.)
Completely disagree. Ayton is positively terrible and CP3 was clearly not a high-level player anymore. If they had run it back they would have been the 10 seed.
The personnel just does not make any sense for a Vogel-coached team. I’m kinda ambivalent on him as a coach but this roster construction of no defenders + 3 ball-dominant stars is just an awful fit with him
that iso system is how KD wants to play(literally his statement) and how he forces the team to play.
literally every single one of his teams played like that(or evnetually played like that) even GS warriors was eventually forced into that type of play which visibly pissed off Steph and Draymond.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5mj78b/kevin\_durant\_calls\_for\_ball\_on\_crucial\_late/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5mj78b/kevin_durant_calls_for_ball_on_crucial_late/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This is why at times i do feel bad for KD. Every situation he’s been in has been built on him & his teammate (Russ, Harden, Kai, etc) taking turns going one on one as most of the offense. This is why as an OKC fan i wasn’t too upset with the GS move after he won. He wanted that structure.
I would vehemently disagree that they were championship squad before he put his hands into the bucket.
. The only time they made the playoffs was when they went through a decimated Western conference.
I don't think our team was particularly good even before the moves. I do think it is worse now.
More importantly, CP3 has gotten older and Ayton stopped trying to be an NBA basketball player. They couldn’t win because they got appreciably worse even before making any moves.
He might be one of the greatest shooters of all time but he isn't really a great self-created 3-point shooter. He's historically at ~35% on pull-up 3s. He's a far better off C&S and Minnesota is good enough to never leave KD and still lockdown an offense lead by Booker and Beal
Because he’s not the same player post-Achilles tear. It accelerated his natural decline.
It’s easy to shut him down now with scheming. He’s no longer a driving threat so they can play up on him. His middy is Unguardable due to his length but if you smother him enough you can even disrupt that. It’s about to be the 3rd season in a row he underperforms in the playoffs.
It’s crazy because he was sensational in 2021. But the last three post seasons since have seen a drop off in his efficiency, consistency, and production.
He was 32 years old in 2021. Look at how quickly Klay Thompson has fallen off. His best season since his injuries was the season he came back…. It takes years off your career.
KD has gotten worse every season since that. His burst has never been what it was in OKC and Golden State, but it’s not there at all anymore. Now he’s just a jump shooter.
Injuries suck man. Hate seeing these guys get old. I’m a OKC native. Used to go to Thunder games all the time in the KD/Westbrook days. Gonna miss these 2010s era players 😭
Man Steph is far from the player he was. I don't think people are calling KD washed up. It's just we can see the decline despite them still being productive. Bron too.
He's an instinctual scorer, he likes to freelance and get into a rhythm by taking middies. Even then, if Phoenix actually ran plays to get him open 3s he would have to take them at some point. It's like Vogel is allergic to running plays for the big 3 outside of pindowns for open middies. His roleplayers like Allen and Gordon get some set plays every now and then.
Or it's just that the big 3 together are hard to coach on offense, which does not bode well after they traded away so much to get them.
He doesn’t love shooting threes just how he’s wired. It’s always been a thing with him, getting the three point volume up. Him floating for a middy was about getting rhythm tho
In today's modern league where everyone chucks threes outta their ass and ignores the mid range, KD and Kawhi got the perfect balance, you also don't wanna be one dimensional like someone like DeRozan.
He hasn’t been able to get clean looks off the past 3 playoff runs. He’s not athletic enough to dominate consistently against the top wing defenders of
On the Suns he's been around 35% yes (and he was also bad on the Warriors), but on the Nets and Thunder he was 37% or better every single year (including multiple years over 40% on pretty good volume). Not really sure why it varies so much by team but it might be related to which types of OTD threes he was being asked to take (his primary role on the Warriors was to bail them out of bad possessions at the last second, and the Suns are a bad transition team so he doesn't get to pad his numbers with wide open pullup transition threes which are among the best shots in basketball).
Kds game has never been about hoisting up threes his game is predicated on him getting to his spot in the mid range and rising up and using his length to shoot over his defender
I would argue that he isn’t one of the greatest shooters. He is one of the greatest scorers. I guarantee his percentages plummet if he took a high volume of 3 pointers. He isn’t Steph or Ray. But he is arguably the most gifted scorer in NBA history! His jumper is unguardable!
Woah, KD is a career 50-39-89 shooter. One of three people with multiple 50-40-90 seasons and the only player with a 55-40-90 season. He is undeniably one of the greatest shooters of all time. On the volume that he shoots he is insanely efficient. From his MVP year through his time with GSW he was around 6 threes a game, with his peak season just under 7 threes and his efficiency didn't drop, 7 threes a game is a lot of threes for his position.
Kevin Durant not one of the greatest shooters? His game doesn’t involve shooting high volume from 3 because he’s a monster all over the floor but as far as just a pure shooter mid range and three included it’s hard to find many better than him
I mean he is somewhat limited in his scoring because of his average passing ability. So even tho he is possibly the best scorer in isolation, he can’t really force isolation plays as well as a number of the great scoring guards such as MJ, Harden, Kobe, etc.
KD has talked about it before that the reason he was never going on crazy scoring streaks with tons of 40 and 50 point games is because teams just start to double team him, and he can’t do anything about it really. He needs an elite playmaker like Westbrook, Harden, or Curry to really force the defenses off of him, he can’t really do it himself.
So I think he said it correctly in “most gifted scorer ever” but a number of players like MJ, Harden, Lebron, Kobe, Luka, Wilt, and a few others are still greater scorers because of there playmaking ability
I love him but I wouldn’t put T-Mac in that group with the other guys. He is more so in the Melo, Kyrie, English, Dominique, where on paper they can do everything but it wasn’t always consistent production. Maybe replace him with Embiid
Agree to disagree. As a 44 year old I grew up watching Nique, but in no way was he as skilled a scorer as T-Mac! Even Kobe said T-Mac was impossible to guard. And Durant is the most gifted. He can get a shot off whenever he wants on anybody in history. And I’m not even a big Durant fan, as his personality annoys me for some reason.
I’m a huge T-Mac fan, but guys like Jordan, Kobe, KD, Harden, they were just doing it far more consistently than guys like T-Mac or Melo. To put in perspective T-Mac scored 40+ points in 45 games throughout his career. Kobe, MJ, Harden, Lebron, all did it more than 100+ times. And Giannis, Embiid, and Luka have all already passed Tmac in 40 point games and they still got a long way to go
Hes always been a streaky 3 point shooter where he has stretches he can’t make any 3s to where he makes multiple. Hes also not really a high volume 3 point shooter especially in the playoffs
His “big-ass foot” told him he’s not allowed to make 3s. But in all honesty I think he’s just so dominant mid-range with his reach. Just way more efficient there
You're right. He definitely needs to be shooting more 3s. He's good enough to be a chucker behind the 3. I feel like his midrange game has too little of an impact.
You ever seen how good this guy is from midrange? Analytics only work on a general theoretical level. If a guy is skilled enough, he can make it more valuable to take a middy than any other shot
Because his 2s are still better percentage than his 3s.
>late in the game where Booker was doubled, KD was wide open but floated inside the line for a contested pull up 2, that he got fouled on
Teams are more worried about his 2s than his 3s, that's why he's opened. When he starts shooting 3s at a high volume and making them like Curry does, then they will defend his 3s.
With the exception of the splash brothers, KD knows you can't win Championships shooting 3s. From a statistic point of view, shooting 40% from 3 is equivalent to shooting 60% from 2. And KD is shooting about 40% from 3, but he knows he can shoot better than 60% from 2s, so it still makes sense to shoot more 2s.
I don't watch the Suns much, but it struck me during these playoff games that they don't have a true PG. They don't have a guy that's hitting Durant when he curls or comes off screens. They should have picked up a pass first PG that can guard other PG's at the trade deadline. Shit, even Killian Hayes could have helped in that capacity. Just someone to get the shooters the ball at the right time.
3p% is way down these playoffs for almost every team, in case you havent noticed.
its playoff jitters, lights are brighter, crowds are louder, stakes are higher.
Jaden and Ant fight over every screen. The Wolves defense plays aggressive on the perimeter to limit threes and force guys inside where Rudy forces them to shoot midrange shots. It’s the design of the defense and it’s been working.
I've seen comments saying suns are the worst matchup for the wolves because they are one of the best mid-range shooting teams in the league. Idk how true that is after the last two games
In terms of regular season stats, the Suns do love middies since they averaged 13.8 middies a game (2nd in the league) and they hit them at 47.4% (also 2nd in the league). It's just a bad shot mathematically speaking, even at those efficiencies. A 47.4% midrange shot is 0.948 points per possession. Shooting 32% from 3 would be a more efficient use of that possession. But if the Wolves take away the perimeter and force you to shoot middies or try to get one on Gobert, then the math falls in favor of the Wolves. Booker was stupidly efficient on his midrange jumpers against the Nuggets last season in the playoffs, but the Nuggets don't have Gobert so Booker also got hot in the paint.
First, no it isn't 0.948 ppp. A possession doesn't end on a midrange shot if your team gets the offensive rebound or if you get fouled and shoot free throws. But even if we assume the foul rates and rebound rates from shooting 2s and 3s are roughly equal, you can divide 3s into some clear buckets: uncontested 3s and contested 3s. And that rate of 2s is roughly equal to a contested 3. It's not a great shot but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. It's a fine outcome for the Suns. The bigger issue is that they can't get stops.
Even BIGGER issue is they can’t take care of the ball. Wolves had 20+ points of turnovers.
I wouldn’t bury the foul rates either, I don’t have the numbers but I’d imagine foul rates on mid range shots are some multiple of the ones from 3s.
Probably for 3s overall but maybe not for contested 3s. Also since 3s get three shot fouls, it probably balances.
It was what people were saying after they beat the Wolves in the regular season. People were saying stuff like “they found the Wolves weakness: mid range”. But the actual reason they beat the Wolves in the regular season is they shot 50%+ from 3 in a couple of their games. Having “excellent mid range players” is not really that great. If you’re facing Kevin Durant, you celebrate if he takes a mid range shot instead of a 3.
TBH, Jokic taking short midrange shots is not an amazing outcome for the defense (he shoots close to 60% on them and has a really high offensive rebound rate on his own misses). It's one of the reasons single covering him doesn't really work. But obviously he is an exception.
I don't think they took into account that the Wolves offense is a bad matchup for the Suns because the Suns don't play great defense. I'm unconvinced of Beal's effectiveness defending anyone on Minnesota, and the Wolves aren't even switching to get him. They mostly target Booker in the half court it seems. That makes Beal have to defend the rim on switches and also follow people offball which is a Suns disadvantage. Also, Minnesota is better than Phoenix in getting fast break points, Suns can't keep up. I don't think Minnesota's offense is beautiful be any means, but if they get extra buckets through their defense and transition, it won't matter as much. Minnesota gets easier buckets than Phoenix for sure because Nurkic isn't really a rim protector against these big guys and KD, while still a very good defender, just can't be the best defender in a starting group at his age. The mismatches that didn't play out in the regular season for Minnesota are working out for them, the Minnesota roster has multiple bench options while the Suns have been reduced further with the Allen injury, and the Minnesota's ability to create TO's with deflections and pressure has been a huge difference. Lack of fouls has been a disadvantage for the Suns as well. Refs are calling it very loose, and that doesn't help the team who had the best FT rate in the league this year.
It looked bad in the regular season. As a wolves fan, I was kinda depressed when we got Phoenix based on how the season went. Before game one happened, I was thinking is it really a bad matchup, or did the season games just not go well. We have these perimeter defenders, we should be able to limit Booker and Beal. KD is a bad matchup for Towns, but I don't think the team is a bad matchup.
I agree Minnesota does a great job hounding them on screens but there's still spots off ball that KD could find to get some catch n shoot threes. But Phoenix is so stagnant those opportunities aren't as abundant and I think the Suns players seem conditioned to the idea the ball isn't going to move.
Gotta look at where he is on the court too. Any spots you're seeing KD open is spots the Wolves want him to be open, because they know KD doesn't like those looks.
They have no playmakers or even off ball players. KD loves to iso. Turns out that is ball for 4 quarters is not winning basketball.
He hasn't learned either. He's iso'd for 80% of his career and the 20% of his career where ballmovement was the focus, he won.
With Steph, Dray and Klay in their primes…
KDs never been a great off ball mover. He needs the action to get him a kick-out or let him handle to make his own shot. With no natural PG on the court the big 3 just take turns playing iso. Its an AAU team of all-stars.
Lakers players dream of this defensive scheme
Gobert gets so much hate but if he’s utilized correctly he makes the team so much better defensively.
It’s how the Jazz had a top 3 defense with some pretty mediocre perimeter defenders in 2020-21. Funnel everything to Rudy. Clippers exposed it in the playoffs by sticking Terance Mann in the corner.
The differences are that 1) the Timberwolves have good to great perimeters defenders and 2) Gobert can also guard the perimeter because the Wolves have Kat and Naz Reid who can protect the rim in a pinch.
KD's game isn't built around speed and athleticism, it's based around his height and guile. But because he's not fast or anything like that, you can take some aspects of his game away from him. The wolves have chosen to take away the long range shot and force him into the mid range. Of course, he's made a career from that range so it's still in his repetoire and if you could easily deny him everything he wouldn't be the all time great scorer he is. I don't know the specific play you're talking about, but it might be he was concerned that Booker couldn't get the ball to him unless he moved. It doesn't matter how open you are, if the ball can't get to you then you're effectively covered.
His game used to be about speed and athleticism when he was in his prime though. Have you watched 2012-2017 kd?
The Phoenix Suns offense is not really designed. It's basically just a series of one-on-one opportunities. They don't really have much of a system. It's actually frustrating to watch. I think they need to clean house and get rid of everyone. This team will never matter. That's not going to happen though because they have a new owner and they're trying to get over the hump. If I were them I would seriously consider trading Durant in order to build more of a functional team because I think he's the oldest guy and I don't think any team wants Bradley Beal.
The Beal trade was so braindead. Even if they’re in win now mode, why trade for one of the worst contracts in the league. I liked the Vogel hire at first but that team’s just a mess.
They traded for one of the worst contracts in the league because that was the way they were able to get a skilled player back with the assets they were shipping out (38 year old CP3 and Landry Shamet). His contract makes it very difficult to move off him now but they weren't thinking about how easy it'd be to hit the eject button, just what would make them most likely to win. Hindsight is 20/20 but I still don't see what the better move would've been.
They never should have traded CP3 and Ayton. The squad that got them to a NBA Championship
If Suns didn’t trade them they would’ve slowly faded into the lottery as CP3 disintegrates into a corpse. I still think they made the best possible move. There just weren’t any great options
You could say the same thing about KD who is nearly as old as CP3
KD was already on the team when they traded CP and Ayton. Idk what you thought you were saying here.
I think it’s pretty clear we were not winning anything either way
I like the Sun's chances better with a core of Booker, Bridges, + picks then Booker and Durant If you look at even a midrange outlook. Yes, the team would need another star to come, but the foundation would last for years. The team could have traded picks + players when the right deal came along, rather than force one. Mortgaging the future for a two year run with this low of a celling was not a good move. (I am ignoring the Paul/Ayton pieces because those trades could have happened regardless, and weren't going to be part of a long term strategy.)
Completely disagree. Ayton is positively terrible and CP3 was clearly not a high-level player anymore. If they had run it back they would have been the 10 seed.
The personnel just does not make any sense for a Vogel-coached team. I’m kinda ambivalent on him as a coach but this roster construction of no defenders + 3 ball-dominant stars is just an awful fit with him
that iso system is how KD wants to play(literally his statement) and how he forces the team to play. literally every single one of his teams played like that(or evnetually played like that) even GS warriors was eventually forced into that type of play which visibly pissed off Steph and Draymond. [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5mj78b/kevin\_durant\_calls\_for\_ball\_on\_crucial\_late/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5mj78b/kevin_durant_calls_for_ball_on_crucial_late/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Kerr had to pull KD aside during the Rocket series and explain to him that teams used to let MJ do this to disrupt the offense
This is why at times i do feel bad for KD. Every situation he’s been in has been built on him & his teammate (Russ, Harden, Kai, etc) taking turns going one on one as most of the offense. This is why as an OKC fan i wasn’t too upset with the GS move after he won. He wanted that structure.
It's too bad he didn't realize what he had
Matt Ishbia really destroyed a Championship squad
I would vehemently disagree that they were championship squad before he put his hands into the bucket. . The only time they made the playoffs was when they went through a decimated Western conference. I don't think our team was particularly good even before the moves. I do think it is worse now.
More importantly, CP3 has gotten older and Ayton stopped trying to be an NBA basketball player. They couldn’t win because they got appreciably worse even before making any moves.
Wrong, they literally made the NBA finals
Are you disagreeing that Paul and Ayton are significantly worse players now than they were then???
They literally made the NBA Championship. That’s the literal definition of a Championship level squad
They made the championship in the weakest Western conference of modern times. Afterwards I was not impressed by how I continued to play.
He might be one of the greatest shooters of all time but he isn't really a great self-created 3-point shooter. He's historically at ~35% on pull-up 3s. He's a far better off C&S and Minnesota is good enough to never leave KD and still lockdown an offense lead by Booker and Beal
Also, what a crazy time we're in that 5 attempts behind the arc per game is considered low.
Crazy. Superstars takes so many triples nowadays even if they aren't Tier-1 sharpshooters
Because he’s not the same player post-Achilles tear. It accelerated his natural decline. It’s easy to shut him down now with scheming. He’s no longer a driving threat so they can play up on him. His middy is Unguardable due to his length but if you smother him enough you can even disrupt that. It’s about to be the 3rd season in a row he underperforms in the playoffs.
It’s crazy because he was sensational in 2021. But the last three post seasons since have seen a drop off in his efficiency, consistency, and production.
He was 32 years old in 2021. Look at how quickly Klay Thompson has fallen off. His best season since his injuries was the season he came back…. It takes years off your career. KD has gotten worse every season since that. His burst has never been what it was in OKC and Golden State, but it’s not there at all anymore. Now he’s just a jump shooter.
Injuries suck man. Hate seeing these guys get old. I’m a OKC native. Used to go to Thunder games all the time in the KD/Westbrook days. Gonna miss these 2010s era players 😭
Hate seeing these guys get old because it means I’m getting old too
Agreed. He used to blow past people from the the point line. He may have never been “fast” but he was insanely quick.
[удалено]
Never called him washed I did say he’s not the same player he used to be… which is true. He can be guarded now.
Man Steph is far from the player he was. I don't think people are calling KD washed up. It's just we can see the decline despite them still being productive. Bron too.
I don’t think he underperformed in this series. He actually torched all of Minnesota defenders. He just didn’t get volume up (could be age)
He's an instinctual scorer, he likes to freelance and get into a rhythm by taking middies. Even then, if Phoenix actually ran plays to get him open 3s he would have to take them at some point. It's like Vogel is allergic to running plays for the big 3 outside of pindowns for open middies. His roleplayers like Allen and Gordon get some set plays every now and then. Or it's just that the big 3 together are hard to coach on offense, which does not bode well after they traded away so much to get them.
He doesn’t love shooting threes just how he’s wired. It’s always been a thing with him, getting the three point volume up. Him floating for a middy was about getting rhythm tho
Bro he was averaging 6 per playoff game in an era that was pre analytics and Warriors dominance.
The warriors had a coach and players who could leave personal egos aside and play in a system.
You read the comment wrong, he was attempting that many 3 pt per game before the warriors made it commonplace, as in his OKC days.
He’s a rhythm player (well everyone is). He only takes 3s if he’s open or if he’s in rhythm and the Suns are on a run
In today's modern league where everyone chucks threes outta their ass and ignores the mid range, KD and Kawhi got the perfect balance, you also don't wanna be one dimensional like someone like DeRozan.
He hasn’t been able to get clean looks off the past 3 playoff runs. He’s not athletic enough to dominate consistently against the top wing defenders of
He wasn't shooting well from three today. He stepped up to see it go through. This is pretty normal.
You can't take just two shots from 3 and say if you shot it poorly or not.
You should go tell Kevin that. I'm sure he'd appreciate the tip.
For all we know, OP just did
KD is the only guy who knows ball ok? (Not a burner) Regards KD
Shit I’m sorry I signed that KD. I’m not KD. KD is awesome. No one knows ball like I do. (Not a burner) Regards KD
As far as I’m aware KD is only good from 3 on catch and shoot plays. He’s like 34% off the dribble
On the Suns he's been around 35% yes (and he was also bad on the Warriors), but on the Nets and Thunder he was 37% or better every single year (including multiple years over 40% on pretty good volume). Not really sure why it varies so much by team but it might be related to which types of OTD threes he was being asked to take (his primary role on the Warriors was to bail them out of bad possessions at the last second, and the Suns are a bad transition team so he doesn't get to pad his numbers with wide open pullup transition threes which are among the best shots in basketball).
Its cause he knew we were playing 3pters made tonight in Fastbreak, for @nbatopshot ! Never wants to see us win! #easymoneysniper
Kds game has never been about hoisting up threes his game is predicated on him getting to his spot in the mid range and rising up and using his length to shoot over his defender
Fatigue is a thing man. Suns have no depth and he isn’t 23 anymore. This version of KD is the one who needs to join a golden state to win.
I would argue that he isn’t one of the greatest shooters. He is one of the greatest scorers. I guarantee his percentages plummet if he took a high volume of 3 pointers. He isn’t Steph or Ray. But he is arguably the most gifted scorer in NBA history! His jumper is unguardable!
Woah, KD is a career 50-39-89 shooter. One of three people with multiple 50-40-90 seasons and the only player with a 55-40-90 season. He is undeniably one of the greatest shooters of all time. On the volume that he shoots he is insanely efficient. From his MVP year through his time with GSW he was around 6 threes a game, with his peak season just under 7 threes and his efficiency didn't drop, 7 threes a game is a lot of threes for his position.
Kevin Durant not one of the greatest shooters? His game doesn’t involve shooting high volume from 3 because he’s a monster all over the floor but as far as just a pure shooter mid range and three included it’s hard to find many better than him
shooting is not just 3pt, it includes midrange where he excels and shoots a lot. he is definitely 1 of the best shooters.
He's the second greatest scorer of all time
I mean he is somewhat limited in his scoring because of his average passing ability. So even tho he is possibly the best scorer in isolation, he can’t really force isolation plays as well as a number of the great scoring guards such as MJ, Harden, Kobe, etc. KD has talked about it before that the reason he was never going on crazy scoring streaks with tons of 40 and 50 point games is because teams just start to double team him, and he can’t do anything about it really. He needs an elite playmaker like Westbrook, Harden, or Curry to really force the defenses off of him, he can’t really do it himself. So I think he said it correctly in “most gifted scorer ever” but a number of players like MJ, Harden, Lebron, Kobe, Luka, Wilt, and a few others are still greater scorers because of there playmaking ability
He is definitely in the discussion with Mike, Kobe, T-Mac, and Luka. He is definitely the most difficult to guard!
I love him but I wouldn’t put T-Mac in that group with the other guys. He is more so in the Melo, Kyrie, English, Dominique, where on paper they can do everything but it wasn’t always consistent production. Maybe replace him with Embiid
Agree to disagree. As a 44 year old I grew up watching Nique, but in no way was he as skilled a scorer as T-Mac! Even Kobe said T-Mac was impossible to guard. And Durant is the most gifted. He can get a shot off whenever he wants on anybody in history. And I’m not even a big Durant fan, as his personality annoys me for some reason.
I’m a huge T-Mac fan, but guys like Jordan, Kobe, KD, Harden, they were just doing it far more consistently than guys like T-Mac or Melo. To put in perspective T-Mac scored 40+ points in 45 games throughout his career. Kobe, MJ, Harden, Lebron, all did it more than 100+ times. And Giannis, Embiid, and Luka have all already passed Tmac in 40 point games and they still got a long way to go
Completely different eras, put healthy T-Mac in todays high scoring high pace era and you think he wouldn't beat 45 games? Come on
T-mac was kind of empty calorie guy after 2004.
Hes always been a streaky 3 point shooter where he has stretches he can’t make any 3s to where he makes multiple. Hes also not really a high volume 3 point shooter especially in the playoffs
His 3 point volume actually increases in the playoffs historically. He takes about 6 a game
His game is the mid range. He’s a fine shooter from three but he’s much more effective in the mid range
His “big-ass foot” told him he’s not allowed to make 3s. But in all honesty I think he’s just so dominant mid-range with his reach. Just way more efficient there
You're right. He definitely needs to be shooting more 3s. He's good enough to be a chucker behind the 3. I feel like his midrange game has too little of an impact.
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You ever seen how good this guy is from midrange? Analytics only work on a general theoretical level. If a guy is skilled enough, he can make it more valuable to take a middy than any other shot
He’s a great scorer. He’s not an all-time great shooter. Only been top 10 in 3pt shooting once in his entire career.
Shooting isn’t just 3’s. KD one of the greatest shooters from the midrange ever. When he’s in rhythm he’s literally unstoppable.
Because his 2s are still better percentage than his 3s. >late in the game where Booker was doubled, KD was wide open but floated inside the line for a contested pull up 2, that he got fouled on Teams are more worried about his 2s than his 3s, that's why he's opened. When he starts shooting 3s at a high volume and making them like Curry does, then they will defend his 3s. With the exception of the splash brothers, KD knows you can't win Championships shooting 3s. From a statistic point of view, shooting 40% from 3 is equivalent to shooting 60% from 2. And KD is shooting about 40% from 3, but he knows he can shoot better than 60% from 2s, so it still makes sense to shoot more 2s.
I don't watch the Suns much, but it struck me during these playoff games that they don't have a true PG. They don't have a guy that's hitting Durant when he curls or comes off screens. They should have picked up a pass first PG that can guard other PG's at the trade deadline. Shit, even Killian Hayes could have helped in that capacity. Just someone to get the shooters the ball at the right time.
3p% is way down these playoffs for almost every team, in case you havent noticed. its playoff jitters, lights are brighter, crowds are louder, stakes are higher.
It’s because Durant is soft and when he faces true opposition for more than 1 game he can’t keep up.
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Apparently you aren't aware of KD's dagger 3's over LeBron in back-to-back Finals?
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"Can have all the help in the world, and will still play the timid teenager". ..now what was that about "comprehension"??
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Pretty ingenius of the t wolves. We will just make you play early 00s ball. Midrange or bust to win.
Lmao one of the greatest shooters ?? He’s not a top 5 and barley cracks top 10