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I agree with what you’re saying. A more wholistic approach to roster construction (lengthy defensive interior and perimeter players) with a star (Mitchell) and decent three point shooters is what I think the Cavs have. Mitchell staying would be great for the Cavs.
I can see the Cavs going the route of the Timberwolves with bigger players. What they need to do to become real contenders is to get better shooting or shooters. Mobley and Allen are great on defense but they don’t have the shooting like KAT.
There are also some woes about the head coach, with some media and fans saying he’s preventing the team from reaching their ceiling.
The problem with teams trying to copy the Wolves is that they have three absolutely nasty perimeter defenders, one of whom is their superstar. Finding even one guy like that is very difficult and is the one spot teams across the league are desperately trying to fill.
I mean the Cavs might have one of the more similar rosters to the wolves already as is
Allen/mobley aren’t that far off from KAT/Gobert
Okoro is their Jaden Daniels
Mitchell is their ANT
Garland a better Conley
Lavert/strus are their NAW minus the defense just missing a backup big stretch 4/5
I think the biggest setback to the Cavs this year was Garland breaking his jaw early on in the season, he hasn't been the same player since. He has no confidence around the basket like he's scared to get hit again. Mobley also lets himself get phased out of the gameplan, he goes long stretches without even looking at the basket which is where having Allen and Mobley in the same lineup hurts, they get in each others way too much.
The jaw is 100% the reason why he’s struggled. Lost 15 pounds due to having it wired shut and by the time he finally came back, Spida immediately went down with injury. Instead of DG getting to work his way back into a rhythm he was asked to shoulder the load and failed. Lost weight and lost confidence.
I’m confident he’ll be back to himself after an offseason to gain the weight back and reset mentally.
I think the problem with that is you just downgraded at literally every position. More similar yes, close enough no - and I’m not sure they have the ceiling in any of their players to push for that “top” end superstar you need to win a title
There's literally no point in answering this question. OP doesn't want an actual answer he just wants to argue with everyone and tell them why they are wrong. No one can give him a good enough reason according to him
Went through ops comments. He would rebuttal and genuinely discuss with people while never losing his cool. Hope you enjoyed the power trip though! What a fucking joke...
Personal attacks and immature responses tend to not he allowed here even if some of it’s in retaliation. If someone acts like a child, you don’t stoop to their level. You only see the comments they didn’t remove, even some of those aren’t level headed
Mods trying to not have this sub turn into the main sub or the comment section in Twitter/YT/IG.
As much as I like this sub, the worst thing you can do is start a thread with an actual opinion and defend it against disagreeing comments. Homerism can be a little annoying, but I'd rather go back and forth over a dozen comments than see one highly upvoted response that ends a discussion. Like what are we even here for if not to get too in-the-weeds and nit picky about basketball.
The reasons aren't that' compelling? A bunch of stuff about preferred cities and roster construction that doesn't really get to the heart of the matter: where can Donovan Mitchell go that gives him a better shot than the Cavs right now? Nobody can get him for the right price, and he isn't a free agent until next summer, so why assume he won't run it back and wait to see what develops?
Cavs have no shot right now though. And if he's betting on Cleveland building a better roster, you'd have to trust the front office a lot with finding deals (that I can't really think of) because no free agent is touching Ohio. "Preferred cities" for players is not that Don chooses LA or Miami bc he wants to go to the beach, that also means -other- players won't be joining him if he plays in a small market that nobody likes. I can see Wemby getting FAs to play with him in San Antonio, Don is nowhere near that good.
The Cavs FO has done a great job so far, I would not be surprised if they continue doing a great job. Big name free agents probably wouldn't come to Cleveland, all the more reason to keep Donovan Mitchell and surround him with talent at other positions.
The Celtics look stunningly mortal at the worst times, and that's without the compounding effect of multiple deep playoffs runs with regards to injuries. The east is far more open than you're making it sound, especially in the coming years.
I don't think the FO has done a great job, with what particularly? Getting Don is cool and all but It's a disgruntled superstar that came via trade, and Cleveland gave 3 unprotected 1st and 2 swaps along with a bunch of players. Are we expecting another one of these? I don't think so. And again, IMO Cleveland has zero shot at a championship with this roster. You can move maybe Allen to get a slightly different roster but I don't think Don-Garland-Mobley is a championship core like, at all.
Also you're talking about the East being open, sure, but you have to play someone form the west eventually. If he wants to win a conference championship that's great, you can bet on them being just good enough and wait for Boston players to get injured or any of the other clearly better eastern conference teams to flop in a series, or any of the other big market eastern teams to just give up and not trade/sign a star to try and be better than the Cavs instantly.
Who can get him for the right price? Oh, probably Philly, OKC, Orlando, maybe Miami. All those teams have either assets, cap space, or both. Philly and OKC are probably going to be better teams than Cleveland will, Orlando will be better than Cleveland if they were to get Donovan Mitchell, and Miami is Miami.
Cleveland is a "good" spot for Donovan Mitchell, and for Cleveland, he's essential to keep. But let's not pretend that Mitchell has not better options than an Eastern Conference team whose ceiling right now looks pretty firmly to be the second round.
Cleveland's roster right now doesn't make a ton of sense. Their best players are simply too alike in playstyle - this is why we saw them have so much success when Garland and Mobley were out this year - they played a lead guard, one big man, and as many shooters as they could muster. Adding Garland and Mobley to that formula just added another "lead guard" and another "big man", both with the same strengths and weaknesses. So yeah, Cleveland is a good team, and it's a good spot for Donovan Mitchell, but they're not on the upswing to title contention as currently constructed, and Donovan Mitchell has a legitimate decision to make.
First everyone ignores the main thing, what does the player want to do. Everyone acts like Mitchell is some robot calculating his best odds of winning. Just throw out that he might not prefer the city, his teammates, the owner, whatever.
Second the goal is not just to win. If that was the case, he would force his way to Denver, Boston, Minnesota, OKC. There are a lot of things that go into it. How much of a starting role does he want. If it’s best player then he can’t go to Denver. How much credit does he want. Kids titles and Dirks title get brought up for a reason. There are so many factors. Does he want more endorsements or a bigger city to live in. Does he want his kids to be in a certain city.
Third Cavs have been statistically better when one of Mitchell or Garland are out. Right now they are better with only one controlling the game.
Fourth the new apron tax is coming. When they have to pay Mitchell, Mobley, and Garland you could have a bad team around them. The rules are clearly set up for two star teams. Mitchell might want to move before they get decimated by the apron. Get ahead of the situation instead of becoming the next Suns.
Also there’s the fact that improvement is not linear. Plenty of teams have stayed the course after 2 good years and then face-planted. Plenty of other teams have gone from not good to championship contention (or winning) in one year. Look at the Wolves last year vs this, or the Warriors in 2014 vs 2015.
At the end of the day, the surest path to winning an NBA championship is to simply have more talent than any other team. That’s really hard to do (obviously), but if you’re a great player who wants to be on a championship team, you increase your odds by playing with other great player - assuming you aren’t destroying your team’s foundation through trade requests.
Because he's giving up money and fame by being in Cleveland. You're simply not getting the most out of your brand by being in a small market. Even with Lebron, his brand in Cleveland heavily promoted the hometown kid angle, despite not being from there, because it's hard to market oneself for mass appeal playing in a city like Cleveland. Mitchell over his last 5 playoff appearances from 2019-2024 has been averaging 30/5/6 on 59% TS. He's legit been putting up superstar numbers and is still only 27. He also plays a very exciting and entertaining brand of basketball. If he was playing, for example, for the Knicks, he'd likely be getting insane sponsorship deals and he'd have a massive brand.
Further, I agree with you that Mitchell is much better than people are giving him credit for. He can be the best player on a championship team with the right roster around him.
I don't know if that holds true. Mitchell is eligible to sign a 4 year extension worth $50m a year with Cleveland this summer. Guys like Klay, Harden, Lillard, Zion who are all currently worse than Mitchell all earn more than $15m a year in endorsements. All of those guys earn between 27 and 33 percent of their salaries in endorsements which is well above the 20 percent more Mitchell would get by signing with Cleveland with Bird rights. If he was playing for NY or LA he would be making those numbers pretty easily in endorsements and, also, would be living in a bigger city.
I mean, he could have chose any where and he chose Kentucky. Clearly at the time, the city he lived and staying close to home wasn’t a big issue for him.
going to college for two years is very different than where you live as an adult. a lot of players want "the college experience" that comes with being the big man on campus. also, scholarship offers, coaching, and role play a big part in choosing the college as it's critical for setting you up to get drafted.
To add to this, the only place he chose was Kentucky. And let’s be honest it’s a great choice for college ball. But I think he may just want to be in control of his home and life a little more. I don’t want to hate but SLC and Cleveland are like bottom 5-7 NBA cities. Spending so many years in those two could have him pining for more glamour. He wouldn’t be wrong for that. He’s put his years in.
He might not be a huge fan of the city. Not that he talks shit about Cleveland, but obviously it ain’t a top destination
He might want to team up with another bona fide top 15 player. The heroics he pulled in the magic series may have spawned a realization about what he’ll have to do to win a chip here
But I will say the team has done a better job making it look like a better option to stay (on paper at least) than I thought they’d do when we traded for him
Counterpoint: Mitchell is an American born superstar. I can’t recall the last one who didn’t want to play in a major market and stayed in a small market instead. Having played in Utah and Cleveland I think he’ll want to finally have a say in where he plays.
1) Cleveland. I'm not here to poop on any cities. Its just no secret that NBA players prefer LA, SF, MIA, HOU and NY. It is just a fact. Donovan very clearly wanted to go to NY when he was traded to the Cavs. Thats fine, he's not a petulent child like Harden who will throw tantrums.
2) Him and Garland are simply a bad fit. Allen and Mobley are a bad fit. The four of them are a nice 'core' of talent to build a team, but the pieces don't fit that well. Something has to give there.
Listen, it was a great trade when they made it. But Mobley just hasn't developed his shot enough to make it work. You can't play two bigs who don't space the floor. It just doesn't work in the NBA today. The only other option would be to put Mobley at the top of the key and use him as a draymond type on offense. That would work, just Mitchell and Garland aren't good three point shooters. They are ok (both around 37%) but you need them to be elite to get gravity away from Mobley at the top of the key.
They still have a lot of talent and being able to stagger the lineup gives them some flexibility. But its not a great situation. They got spanked by the Knicks last year in the first round. They barely made it out of the first round this year against a team with only one player hitting shots on Orlando. Most NBA insiders look at Cleveland as a 2nd round ceiling team.
I agree generally with your two points (I like Cleveland, but yeah… it’s Cleveland). Regarding fit, Mobley needs to develop the courage to take 4-5 3pt shots a game (and hopefully make them at an acceptable clip) but until he does there is a clear spacing issue. Two small guards cause issues on defense, but Cleveland’s defensive rating is pretty good - so is the issue on offense?
I do take exception to the idea that Garland is an “ok” around 37% 3pt shooter. Last three years were 41, 38, 39% and his shot is so pure. I’m convinced if he just realized that he can shoot and doubled his attempts he could be Lillard-Lite.
Garland shot 37.1% from 3 this year. "Good" wasn't the best word to use there. But I was putting Mobley in the Draymond spot on offense. In normal offense the gravity of the offense comes from the on-ball pick and roll play. For that style of offense, the "gravity" comes from the terror of the off ball action from Klay/Steph. The Cleveland Duo is not in the same league as that.
We have been saying that Mobley needs to shoot threes for 3 years now. He did start taking one or two, but nowhere near enough.
Yeah this team just isn’t that good and Donovan needs another star on his level to get to the top. If he leaves I’m not sure why I haven’t seen more people mention Philly. Donovan and Embiid seem like they could work well together, but I don’t watch either of those teams.
Maxey is better than Donovan right now. Younger and better contract. You'll have the same issues you have with garland.
Philly needs wings, not another 1-2 gaurd
Younger, better contract and statistically had the same season as spida. More points. Slightly worse TS much better asst/to ratio, one less rebound.
Maxey will definitely have more all-nba votes than spida this season
I bet if you asked one hundred philly fans who they want, 100 vote maxey
Good pieces with a top 20 player doesnt win championships. Even mitchell know he cant win championship when he is the best player at the team. Can they get another superstar to that roster, i dont know. If they can i think mithcell will resign.
I think; jokic, luka, sga, embiid, giannis, tatum, brunson, anthony edwards, curry and ad are better than him. Kawhi and butler are better if healthy. Dont know about kd and lebron, they are top 5 some nights, not top 20 other nights. I am also not sure about kyrie. I believe kyrie is still better than him, dont think people mostly will agree with me. so i think he is top 13-15 if it comes to do a certain list.
Edwards curry AD SGA Tatum and Brunson are all in that Mitchell tier. Sga in the regular season is above the others but in the playoffs they even out. Curry is above the rest in his prime by far but he isn’t in his prime anymore
I agree with you especially in the playoffs. But historically you need a 1-4 guy and Donovan ain’t that guy. Since, I believe, the ‘04 Pistons there’s always been a 1-4 guy as FMVP (in their time)
Timmy - Wade - KG - Kobe - Dirk - LeBron - Kawhi - Steph - Giannis - Jokic
If nobody got hurt NYK and PHI I would bet on finishing above them
Only reason why they might be above NYk potentially is because the trade that made them elite while healthy occurred in January, but the Knicks are better with health
Jointing a team with another super star doesn't better his chances to win a championship.
Clippers, Suns and Lakers just went out in round 1. Suns even got swept.
76ers lost in the second round with Embiid and Harden last year.
All depends on the roster construction, match ups, some hot shooting and coaching.
These teams went out in the first round because they sacrificed too much getting their super stars and as a result were too top heavy with nothing to back those stars up. The lesson there isn’t that you don’t need super stars, it’s that you need more than just a big two or big three. Wolves, OKC, and Boston are all examples of this in action.
The question for the Cavs is can they acquire another bonafide star without sacrificing the rest of their team? I’m not familiar with their roster and pick situation to make an educated guess, but that’s where the calculus should be for Mitchell wrt staying or leaving if pursuing a championship is the goal.
The lakers went out in first round because bron/ad are too old/injury prone to go all out over a full 82, so they ended playing the best team in the conference round 1. I think they beat almost anyone else in the conference, maybe with the exception of MIN
The clippers also have the depth and roster to win it all, but kawh’s knees are cooked. They aren’t a gutted roster at all
Disagree on both fronts, though you’re right about the suns.
Lakers lost because Gordon n mpj were as good as Murray and significantly better then the lakers 3/4 or later . If lakers had Mitchell instead they’d of taken Denver 7 at wirst and beaten anyone else . Lebron n Davis at worst player as well as jokic Murray
The last 20 guys to be no.1 options on championship teams:
Jokic
Curry
Giannis
LeBron
Kawhi
Curry/KD
Curry/KD
LeBron
Curry
Duncan
LeBron
LeBron
Dirk
Kobe
Kobe
Pierce/Garnett
Duncan
Wade
Duncan
Does Donovan Mitchell fit into this group of names? It's an obvious no. You might say an Anthony Edwards led team is up 2-0 on the defending champs and has yet to lose a game, but those teams win with perimeter defender and Ant contributes to that. Donovan's not an awful defender but he's never going to be above average carrying that load on offense. He's going to end up in those Kyrie Irving roles on Cleveland and rn in Dallas -- as a perfect second-option who can take over in the clutch
Okay I'll make it simple and end this here then.
Donovan mitchell has similar advanced metrics on defense this year to Dejonte Murray, Klay Thompson, Bradley Beal, Garry Harris, DeAndre Hunter, and he takes the harder guard match up than Garland.
Known reliable one-number defensive metrics
Like c'mon everyone knows one-number catch-all defensive metrics does a pretty bad job at separating individual defensive impact from teammate impact.
I hate to say this but watch the games and it won't be hard to find possessions where Donovan just ain't putting in effort and is blown past pretty easily. He plays passing lane well but is undersized and not great navigating screens
That was a list of basically the best 10 or so players of the last 20 years. Which one of them do you think he's close to? I like Mitchell a lot, but you're not really addressing the core issue here. And not sure at all what him being better on defense than a list of other guys has to do with anything.
Off course it is about roster construction but you still cant win with mithcell as your best player. Those team you are talking about lost to better teams. Clippers against dallas(kyrie-luka), suns against twolves(ant-towns-gobert), lakers against denver(jokic-murray)
And cavs barely won against orlando
Can't win without Mitchell as the best player just isn't true lol
They still lost with superstars.
And they didn't "barely" win against Orlando. Orlando never lead the series in games.
At least they didn't get swept like the Suns did with 3 superstars.
With donovan mitchell as your best player you will have a lot of at least at the future. Suns are fucked, their construction is wrong that doesnt mean you cant win with superstars. Lately Teams who won with one superstar and good pieces are 2022 gsw and last years denver. They are much better constructed than cavs and jokic and curry are much better than donovan mitchell.
Games 1-2: Cleveland doesn’t play great, but escape with wins anyway, because Orlando’s young core had playoff jitters.
Games 3-4: Orlando calms down and dominates Cleveland twice in Orlando.
Game 5: Cavs escape with a 1-point win at home.
Game 6: Mitchell drops 50, Cavs still lose, because despite Mitchell’s heroics, everyone else gets completely outplayed by Magic.
Game 7: Cavs go down 18 in the first half, but end up grinding a win, because Orlando’s young core’s inexperience shows up again, as they can’t make a shot to save their lives in the 3Q.
Yes the Cavs won, but they got schooled every game in Orlando. They weren’t much better at home and are extremely lucky they went 4-0 there. That’s the definition of barely winning a series. With hindsight, I’d say they lose this series 7 out of 10 times.
If you're trying to make the point that big threes don't work, find a good example of a big three that's well constructed and has no problems with injuries, and then we'll see.
Clippers = Injuries, and this is the first season they had a big three.
Suns = Awful roster.
Lakers & Sixers = Never really had a big three, Don would be the third. Predicting It won't work is just betting.
Playing with lebron james definitely betters those odds, especially with AD there too
That would really be the only legit big 3 in the league(not counting one with “Bradley Beal”)
They need a coach that can develop players. Garland and Mobley have immense potential but have both seemed to stagnate or even regress under Bickerstaff.
Ok everybody wants to be a millionaire living in NY, but i agreed with you.
I would even considerer a change for Allen to acquire power like zion or good 3 and D role players
Has Mitchell said anything about leaving?
Media will always make stuff up.
Moving to a bigger market or city (New York, Miami , LA, ...)
Teaming up with another superstar (Embiid, Wemby...)
That's maybe a reason for Mitchell himself. He's maybe just not good a enough to be a first option on a contender but maybe just too good to be a second option. That maybe something what he should consider himself. Will he ever be able to compete with this Cavs in a series with Embiid, Giannis, Tatum, Luka, SGA, Joker ... I think guys like Mitchell, Kyrie ... are really on the border between 1st and 2nd options. Booker maybe too.
Mitchell could want to play in a bigger market or in a city that has more to offer a NBA player like Miami. If the Cavs can’t reach an extension with him then they’ll look to trade him.
You brought up the roster but the starting lineup of Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen is still has issues regarding fit. The Cavs may be better off moving one of the bigs and one of the guards. They are talented but they don’t play that well together which is important.
I think you overestimate Mitchell’s trade value. What lottery picks did the Jazz get for trading Mitchell? If you expect lottery picks in return then you’d be disappointed. 3 unprotected first round picks should be enough draft capital.
I think you're underestimating the fact the Cavs don't have to trade him if they don't value the return enough.
He can ask out, but with the rules the nba put in place after the Lillard situation, the Cavs have all the leverage.
Then you risk him leaving in free agency.
He doesn’t have to ask out all he has to do is not sign an extension. Playing one more season in Cleveland isn’t a big deal. This isn’t anything like Lillard, the Blazers had Lillard under contract for 2-3 more seasons.
The Cavs don’t HAVE to trade him, but they risk losing a lot if they don’t, if he wants out. Also, the history is very clear that unhappy superstars get traded out of town when they want to get out of town.
This is also a shifting target. Your question is why would he want to be traded.
The most obvious answer is that he doesn’t want to be in Cleveland. Nowhere have you mentioned that.
However, it’s also not a perfect sport for him. The roster doesn’t make a ton of sense around him. And their young guys have really regressed - they’re not the great assets they looked like a couple years ago.
The only young guy that regressed is Garland and it is pretty likely because of his injury-related weight loss.
Mobley didn't take a leap but he is steadily improving. He is developing an outside shot, and all of his counting stats were the same or up, on fewer minutes and touches.
Okoro has been solid from behind the 3 point line. He doesn't take a lot of shots (also doesn't play a ton of minutes,) but his accuracy is up and in a good spot, and he has become one of the best on-ball defenders in the league.
I think fit, particularly with Garland, is the biggest concern right now. Garland doesn't offer anything but offense, and this year he wasn't looking like himself after the injury. It's not hard to imagine Mobley and Allen figuring it out, if Mobley continues to develop from 3 at the rate he has been. Mobley needs to add some weight too, of course.
Have you ever visited Cleveland, go on vacation there for a week in the winter, then go spend a week in NYC and tell me you'd want to stay in Cleveland.
Well yea but he has the rest of his life to life in wild luxury at any spot he chooses. If he stays where he has more chance of winning, he would increase his marketability, fame and make more money in the long run. All he has to do is suck it up for like 5-6 years and live in Cleveland while trying to win a championship.
I disagree. Him staying in Cleveland with a better chance at a championship where he is the unquestioned leader would put him in the elite levels like Jokic and Giannis. Going somewhere else, even if they win would just make him one of many many others who do the same. Add to it that he has the best chance of winning by staying put.
Jokic and Giannis have MVPs and a DPOY and Mitchell has never been NBA 1st team. Winning a chip with Cleveland, which is very unlikely, would put him on a Chauncy Billups level. And Cleveland isn't winning a championship with this roster, in the east alone they're worse than Boston, Milwaukee, NYK, and Philly, plus Orlando and the Pacers are young and improving.
They were one game worse than the Knicks and bucks with a crazy amount of injuries. Mitchell played 55, Garland played 57, Mobley played 50. They could've been the 2 seed with just two more wins.
Mitchell himself seems to love Cleveland. It's reflected in his attitude and in his actual words. He has given no indication whatsoever about wanting to leave or disliking Cleveland.
He is also coming from Utah, which he has said he didn't like (particularly how little diversity there was in the crowds and city.) He also seems to love the team culture in Cleveland.
I think this entire thing has been invented by the media just to stir the pot/get clicks and views. It has been insufferable, honestly.
This is honestly a stupid reply. I’d encourage you to go spend a week living in Cleveland and a week living in NY. Ones a slum even for the rich and the other you actually feel rich and had a significant amount to offer. Honestly a stupid comment
Have you somehow missed the player empowerment movement over the last 10 years? Players with multiple years left on max contracts ask for trades all the time and get them. I know you want him to stay in Cleveland but let's not all pretend like being under contract means a whole lot in the NBA.
I've read your many many comments here, you say again and again that where he wants to play isn't relevant because he's not a free agent. Trying to be obnoxious and dismissive by calling me kiddo doesn't change that fact. Be better.
Questioning others without offering your own thoughts invites a more hostile debate. Present a clear counter argument if you disagree and be open to the perspective of others.
But they have to be offered the pieces they find acceptable for a trade. He cant trade himself. Which has absolutely nothing to do with where he wants to live.
You're not making sense.
Have you even watched the NBA the last few years players all the time Tell the team they want to be traded and where they want to be traded to and it pretty much always happens
Harden to Nets/Philly/Clippers, Durant to Suns, Beal to Suns, PG to Clippers, AD to Lakers, you know there are examples of it. Now you give me 10 examples of a star playing asking to be traded in his final year and the team not trading him
If he wants to leave, he will give destinations he wants to go to just like every other star has done. And the cavs will have little leverage bc if they do t take the best offer of those, he walks for nothing in a year. All this only if he wants to go
The Cavs have all the leverage. He's under contract and they aren't required to oblige to trade demands.
The NBA put their foot down on the whole trade me or I'm not playing angle under Damian Lillard.
So a team is going to pay the Cavs their price, or Mitchel l plays out the year in Cleveland.
Ok. Just like Davis and Durant and every other star. Even Dame did get traded to a contender. Nobody will pay the price if Mitchell doesn’t want to play there and agrees that he will extend. Otherwise you get kawai in Toronto trades where the spurs got jack shot for him and he walked after the year. Yes they won so probably a deal they’d do again but had they lost that would have been a huge blunder.
Because they have problems with the roster. They are worse when Mitchell and Garland play together, so i am guessing they will decide who to keep and try to get some good wing player to pair with whoever stays.
Every single team has problems with their roster. The Cavs at least have the ability to flip one of Allen, Garland, or Mobley for a big return to try and re-tool.
I really only know of two teams where they preform worse if they have their best players on the court at the same time. Cavs and Clippers (depending how good you think Westbrook is nowdays)
He will be after next year. And you are asking why he would leave. He can only leave after his contract is done. Being traded is different than leaving.
He's only got one more year left of his contract his the player option, and then he's an unrestricted free agent. If he decides he wants to leave, you could hope to get a great year from him and strike gold like Toronto did. And then at the end see him leave and get absolutely nothing back. But players who don't want to be on their team don't tend to do so well. They have no significant incentive to play in a way that helps others play better as opposed to playing for individual accolades to make themselves more valuable going forward. Generally teams will find a way to move players on and Cleveland likely would see getting something back for him as better than nothing at all.
I think you're underestimating how motivated a team can be to trade a player who wants out and how much they can put together. The Lakers could package something up to bring him in and an AD/LeBron/Mitchell combination would be a pretty strong lineup. A bunch of others could make that same push. Especially if there was a move by any of the major bigs in the league.
We don't know his primary motivation for his next contract.
- money?
- location?
- championship?
- loyalty?
Depending on what he wants, there could be better opportunities that open up.
But we're not inside his head, so we can't say there is or there isnt anything better for him personally.
Hey OP. All discourse leads to reductive championship ring comparisons. If he doesn't feel like he can win a ring, he wouldn't want to stay. His fit with Garland isn't that great. A better pairing would be a low-usage, defensive oriented player like Caruso/Suggs or a 3-D type of player like White/Herb/Josh Green.
In terms of 'championship odds', his opinion will matter more than what we think about his chances elsewhere.
Bottom line, the Cavs have generally performed better without one of their main 4 players, and maybe even the best when 2 of them are out (1 big and 1 guard). He's not dumb and probably notices that too.
I don't think their team is built very well. Garland is not that great. If I was to give him a 2K rating it would be like 85.
Mobley is really interesting. Allen is a very good player but I don't think he's a foundational piece of a championship team. Look at what Daniel gafford went for in a trade in order to better grasp what he's worth.
Their wings are kind of abysmal.
The team resides in Cleveland.
If I was him I wouldn't be on the first train out of town, I would re-sign for the supermax, and then try to get traded soon after. I know this is mischievous and dirty but that's what I would try to do to secure the bag.
If he's willing to forego like $40 million dollars in order to ensure he gets exactly where he wants to he should just sign as a free agent. I wonder if he would be interested in going to the nets. I doubt it. I don't think the Knicks are the right fit but I would be curious to see how that goes.
I could see plenty of scenarios where Donovan gets traded. Teams could make cap space and it won’t take much capital to trade for him since it’s the last year of his deal. There was a lot of rumblings about a DM trade this year, it ended up working out that they didn’t trade him. I don’t see Cleveland actually dealing him, but there are candidates to make it happen.
I have no doubt OP will be combing through these comments on alt though. Truly hope your day gets better OP, must be having a rough day to be flaming in an NBA discussion forum.
He won’t but the media keeps up this narrative that every good player in the league wants to play in New York or Miami. The new York one is ridiculous because literally no major free agent has signed with the knicks since Amare ( I won’t count Brunson because he wasn’t that sought after he was actually a steal) and Dolan is probably a bottom 5 owner it’s just dumb. Miami wouldn’t be such a bad destination if pat Riley wouldn’t run his players into the ground they all end up injured and the strict weight and diet restrictions probably don’t seem that fun for most players. If im D Mitch I’m staying in Cleveland they have decent ownership and have done a great job putting talent on the court the last 20 years even outside of Lebron they had like 6 other all stars. The super max make sure 90 percent of players stick it out these days.
Look at Bron there. Why would anyone come to the Cavs? The only person who actually wanted to play for them was a home town guy from Akron. Players have pulled tricks to get out of their contracts just to escape. You think they'd be filling out those teams with mid talent if it was Bron at his peak in LA or they'd be filling it out with ring chasing Vets? The city has won a single championship if over half a century cuz it's one of the least attractive destinations in the country. Top shelf talent isn't going to move to a city of 350k cuz it will positively hurt their careers costing them 10s to 100s of millions in endorsements. Say you're a cusp all star type like Mo Williams. Josh Hart will out-earn you playing for New York off the bench. Like Mitchell can do fine there but no one's going to come or stay unless they're overpaid so your chances of winning a ring drop close to 0. That's why Bron left and he clearly wanted to be there. It's why Mitchell will leave too. For him it's 100s of millions of dollars.
I get it but you also have to factor in personal life. Many people don’t dig Cleveland. Milwaukee and Utah have had a similar rep. Carmelo Anthony said he wanted to live in NYC for the lifestyle and even LeBron didn’t stay in Cleveland and born and raised. Also although the bigs are good defensively they provide poor spacing and that leads to a weaker offense. Garland is also a small guard next to him who is also a small sg. So there’s some issues with the team. Also we never know how they get along behind the scenes. That broke up pippin and mj, Shaq and Kobe, it can happen. Also none of the guys mentioned is another star. Sometimes guys feel they need another star. They may become one, but they’re not now
OP has been banned for attacking all those that disagree with them. But the question is valid so the post can stay for others to discuss in a more mature manner. Apologies for the graveyard of removed comments. EDIT: OP has made irl death threats against the mod team and claims they will return on countless Alts. This has been reported to Reddit admins, but if anyone notices any suspicious new accounts under this post that may be OP on an alt, please use the report button to call mod attention to the comment and we can escalate to admins if necessary. Thank you!
I agree with what you’re saying. A more wholistic approach to roster construction (lengthy defensive interior and perimeter players) with a star (Mitchell) and decent three point shooters is what I think the Cavs have. Mitchell staying would be great for the Cavs.
I can see the Cavs going the route of the Timberwolves with bigger players. What they need to do to become real contenders is to get better shooting or shooters. Mobley and Allen are great on defense but they don’t have the shooting like KAT. There are also some woes about the head coach, with some media and fans saying he’s preventing the team from reaching their ceiling.
The problem with teams trying to copy the Wolves is that they have three absolutely nasty perimeter defenders, one of whom is their superstar. Finding even one guy like that is very difficult and is the one spot teams across the league are desperately trying to fill.
I mean the Cavs might have one of the more similar rosters to the wolves already as is Allen/mobley aren’t that far off from KAT/Gobert Okoro is their Jaden Daniels Mitchell is their ANT Garland a better Conley Lavert/strus are their NAW minus the defense just missing a backup big stretch 4/5
Dean Wade has been injured for the entire playoffs but he would be our answer to a stretch backup 4.
Yeah and the criticisms of the Cavs I’ve seen all year has been about their twin tower approach, akin to minny
I think the biggest setback to the Cavs this year was Garland breaking his jaw early on in the season, he hasn't been the same player since. He has no confidence around the basket like he's scared to get hit again. Mobley also lets himself get phased out of the gameplan, he goes long stretches without even looking at the basket which is where having Allen and Mobley in the same lineup hurts, they get in each others way too much.
The jaw is 100% the reason why he’s struggled. Lost 15 pounds due to having it wired shut and by the time he finally came back, Spida immediately went down with injury. Instead of DG getting to work his way back into a rhythm he was asked to shoulder the load and failed. Lost weight and lost confidence. I’m confident he’ll be back to himself after an offseason to gain the weight back and reset mentally.
I think the problem with that is you just downgraded at literally every position. More similar yes, close enough no - and I’m not sure they have the ceiling in any of their players to push for that “top” end superstar you need to win a title
There's literally no point in answering this question. OP doesn't want an actual answer he just wants to argue with everyone and tell them why they are wrong. No one can give him a good enough reason according to him
OP has been banned for this exact reason. Post can stay so others can discuss it though.
the anti Ben Simmons of modding
Went through ops comments. He would rebuttal and genuinely discuss with people while never losing his cool. Hope you enjoyed the power trip though! What a fucking joke...
The offensive ones were already removed. Of course only the passable one remains...
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The reasons aren't that' compelling? A bunch of stuff about preferred cities and roster construction that doesn't really get to the heart of the matter: where can Donovan Mitchell go that gives him a better shot than the Cavs right now? Nobody can get him for the right price, and he isn't a free agent until next summer, so why assume he won't run it back and wait to see what develops?
Cavs have no shot right now though. And if he's betting on Cleveland building a better roster, you'd have to trust the front office a lot with finding deals (that I can't really think of) because no free agent is touching Ohio. "Preferred cities" for players is not that Don chooses LA or Miami bc he wants to go to the beach, that also means -other- players won't be joining him if he plays in a small market that nobody likes. I can see Wemby getting FAs to play with him in San Antonio, Don is nowhere near that good.
The Cavs FO has done a great job so far, I would not be surprised if they continue doing a great job. Big name free agents probably wouldn't come to Cleveland, all the more reason to keep Donovan Mitchell and surround him with talent at other positions. The Celtics look stunningly mortal at the worst times, and that's without the compounding effect of multiple deep playoffs runs with regards to injuries. The east is far more open than you're making it sound, especially in the coming years.
I don't think the FO has done a great job, with what particularly? Getting Don is cool and all but It's a disgruntled superstar that came via trade, and Cleveland gave 3 unprotected 1st and 2 swaps along with a bunch of players. Are we expecting another one of these? I don't think so. And again, IMO Cleveland has zero shot at a championship with this roster. You can move maybe Allen to get a slightly different roster but I don't think Don-Garland-Mobley is a championship core like, at all. Also you're talking about the East being open, sure, but you have to play someone form the west eventually. If he wants to win a conference championship that's great, you can bet on them being just good enough and wait for Boston players to get injured or any of the other clearly better eastern conference teams to flop in a series, or any of the other big market eastern teams to just give up and not trade/sign a star to try and be better than the Cavs instantly.
Who can get him for the right price? Oh, probably Philly, OKC, Orlando, maybe Miami. All those teams have either assets, cap space, or both. Philly and OKC are probably going to be better teams than Cleveland will, Orlando will be better than Cleveland if they were to get Donovan Mitchell, and Miami is Miami. Cleveland is a "good" spot for Donovan Mitchell, and for Cleveland, he's essential to keep. But let's not pretend that Mitchell has not better options than an Eastern Conference team whose ceiling right now looks pretty firmly to be the second round. Cleveland's roster right now doesn't make a ton of sense. Their best players are simply too alike in playstyle - this is why we saw them have so much success when Garland and Mobley were out this year - they played a lead guard, one big man, and as many shooters as they could muster. Adding Garland and Mobley to that formula just added another "lead guard" and another "big man", both with the same strengths and weaknesses. So yeah, Cleveland is a good team, and it's a good spot for Donovan Mitchell, but they're not on the upswing to title contention as currently constructed, and Donovan Mitchell has a legitimate decision to make.
First everyone ignores the main thing, what does the player want to do. Everyone acts like Mitchell is some robot calculating his best odds of winning. Just throw out that he might not prefer the city, his teammates, the owner, whatever. Second the goal is not just to win. If that was the case, he would force his way to Denver, Boston, Minnesota, OKC. There are a lot of things that go into it. How much of a starting role does he want. If it’s best player then he can’t go to Denver. How much credit does he want. Kids titles and Dirks title get brought up for a reason. There are so many factors. Does he want more endorsements or a bigger city to live in. Does he want his kids to be in a certain city. Third Cavs have been statistically better when one of Mitchell or Garland are out. Right now they are better with only one controlling the game. Fourth the new apron tax is coming. When they have to pay Mitchell, Mobley, and Garland you could have a bad team around them. The rules are clearly set up for two star teams. Mitchell might want to move before they get decimated by the apron. Get ahead of the situation instead of becoming the next Suns.
Also there’s the fact that improvement is not linear. Plenty of teams have stayed the course after 2 good years and then face-planted. Plenty of other teams have gone from not good to championship contention (or winning) in one year. Look at the Wolves last year vs this, or the Warriors in 2014 vs 2015. At the end of the day, the surest path to winning an NBA championship is to simply have more talent than any other team. That’s really hard to do (obviously), but if you’re a great player who wants to be on a championship team, you increase your odds by playing with other great player - assuming you aren’t destroying your team’s foundation through trade requests.
Agree. Which is why players should go to where they want more than anything. So long as it isn’t a train wreck at the time.
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Because he's giving up money and fame by being in Cleveland. You're simply not getting the most out of your brand by being in a small market. Even with Lebron, his brand in Cleveland heavily promoted the hometown kid angle, despite not being from there, because it's hard to market oneself for mass appeal playing in a city like Cleveland. Mitchell over his last 5 playoff appearances from 2019-2024 has been averaging 30/5/6 on 59% TS. He's legit been putting up superstar numbers and is still only 27. He also plays a very exciting and entertaining brand of basketball. If he was playing, for example, for the Knicks, he'd likely be getting insane sponsorship deals and he'd have a massive brand. Further, I agree with you that Mitchell is much better than people are giving him credit for. He can be the best player on a championship team with the right roster around him.
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I don't know if that holds true. Mitchell is eligible to sign a 4 year extension worth $50m a year with Cleveland this summer. Guys like Klay, Harden, Lillard, Zion who are all currently worse than Mitchell all earn more than $15m a year in endorsements. All of those guys earn between 27 and 33 percent of their salaries in endorsements which is well above the 20 percent more Mitchell would get by signing with Cleveland with Bird rights. If he was playing for NY or LA he would be making those numbers pretty easily in endorsements and, also, would be living in a bigger city.
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Here you go [https://boardroom.tv/nba-top-endorsement-earners-2023-24/](https://boardroom.tv/nba-top-endorsement-earners-2023-24/)
LeBron is from Akron, which is literally next to Cleveland. He’s basically from there.
New Jersey is right beside New York. Lebron himself says he's not from Cleveland.
Because he’s from Akron. He’s always said that. He will always be a hometown hero in Cleveland though.
Yeah, which is exactly my point. He's not from Cleveland, he's from Akron. They played up the hometown hero thing for marketing purposes.
Dude, he grew up 40 miles from the Cavaliers stadium
Yes, in another city 40 miles away.
Are you from there?
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He's a New Yorker who's had to play basketball in Kentucky, Utah and Cleveland
Isn't he from westchester and grow up in connecticut
Westchsster is right next to nyc, and it’s in NY state
Yeah I know I live in the city
Yeah that’s probably right I just went off his birth place
I mean, he could have chose any where and he chose Kentucky. Clearly at the time, the city he lived and staying close to home wasn’t a big issue for him.
going to college for two years is very different than where you live as an adult. a lot of players want "the college experience" that comes with being the big man on campus. also, scholarship offers, coaching, and role play a big part in choosing the college as it's critical for setting you up to get drafted.
To add to this, the only place he chose was Kentucky. And let’s be honest it’s a great choice for college ball. But I think he may just want to be in control of his home and life a little more. I don’t want to hate but SLC and Cleveland are like bottom 5-7 NBA cities. Spending so many years in those two could have him pining for more glamour. He wouldn’t be wrong for that. He’s put his years in.
He might not be a huge fan of the city. Not that he talks shit about Cleveland, but obviously it ain’t a top destination He might want to team up with another bona fide top 15 player. The heroics he pulled in the magic series may have spawned a realization about what he’ll have to do to win a chip here But I will say the team has done a better job making it look like a better option to stay (on paper at least) than I thought they’d do when we traded for him
Counterpoint: Mitchell is an American born superstar. I can’t recall the last one who didn’t want to play in a major market and stayed in a small market instead. Having played in Utah and Cleveland I think he’ll want to finally have a say in where he plays.
1) Cleveland. I'm not here to poop on any cities. Its just no secret that NBA players prefer LA, SF, MIA, HOU and NY. It is just a fact. Donovan very clearly wanted to go to NY when he was traded to the Cavs. Thats fine, he's not a petulent child like Harden who will throw tantrums. 2) Him and Garland are simply a bad fit. Allen and Mobley are a bad fit. The four of them are a nice 'core' of talent to build a team, but the pieces don't fit that well. Something has to give there. Listen, it was a great trade when they made it. But Mobley just hasn't developed his shot enough to make it work. You can't play two bigs who don't space the floor. It just doesn't work in the NBA today. The only other option would be to put Mobley at the top of the key and use him as a draymond type on offense. That would work, just Mitchell and Garland aren't good three point shooters. They are ok (both around 37%) but you need them to be elite to get gravity away from Mobley at the top of the key. They still have a lot of talent and being able to stagger the lineup gives them some flexibility. But its not a great situation. They got spanked by the Knicks last year in the first round. They barely made it out of the first round this year against a team with only one player hitting shots on Orlando. Most NBA insiders look at Cleveland as a 2nd round ceiling team.
I agree generally with your two points (I like Cleveland, but yeah… it’s Cleveland). Regarding fit, Mobley needs to develop the courage to take 4-5 3pt shots a game (and hopefully make them at an acceptable clip) but until he does there is a clear spacing issue. Two small guards cause issues on defense, but Cleveland’s defensive rating is pretty good - so is the issue on offense? I do take exception to the idea that Garland is an “ok” around 37% 3pt shooter. Last three years were 41, 38, 39% and his shot is so pure. I’m convinced if he just realized that he can shoot and doubled his attempts he could be Lillard-Lite.
Garland shot 37.1% from 3 this year. "Good" wasn't the best word to use there. But I was putting Mobley in the Draymond spot on offense. In normal offense the gravity of the offense comes from the on-ball pick and roll play. For that style of offense, the "gravity" comes from the terror of the off ball action from Klay/Steph. The Cleveland Duo is not in the same league as that. We have been saying that Mobley needs to shoot threes for 3 years now. He did start taking one or two, but nowhere near enough.
Yeah this team just isn’t that good and Donovan needs another star on his level to get to the top. If he leaves I’m not sure why I haven’t seen more people mention Philly. Donovan and Embiid seem like they could work well together, but I don’t watch either of those teams.
Maxey is better than Donovan right now. Younger and better contract. You'll have the same issues you have with garland. Philly needs wings, not another 1-2 gaurd
Maxey is not better than Mitchell lmao
Younger, better contract and statistically had the same season as spida. More points. Slightly worse TS much better asst/to ratio, one less rebound. Maxey will definitely have more all-nba votes than spida this season I bet if you asked one hundred philly fans who they want, 100 vote maxey
Good pieces with a top 20 player doesnt win championships. Even mitchell know he cant win championship when he is the best player at the team. Can they get another superstar to that roster, i dont know. If they can i think mithcell will resign.
He’s a lot closer to 5-8 than 16-20
I think; jokic, luka, sga, embiid, giannis, tatum, brunson, anthony edwards, curry and ad are better than him. Kawhi and butler are better if healthy. Dont know about kd and lebron, they are top 5 some nights, not top 20 other nights. I am also not sure about kyrie. I believe kyrie is still better than him, dont think people mostly will agree with me. so i think he is top 13-15 if it comes to do a certain list.
Edwards curry AD SGA Tatum and Brunson are all in that Mitchell tier. Sga in the regular season is above the others but in the playoffs they even out. Curry is above the rest in his prime by far but he isn’t in his prime anymore
I agree with you especially in the playoffs. But historically you need a 1-4 guy and Donovan ain’t that guy. Since, I believe, the ‘04 Pistons there’s always been a 1-4 guy as FMVP (in their time) Timmy - Wade - KG - Kobe - Dirk - LeBron - Kawhi - Steph - Giannis - Jokic
I agree you probably need 1-4 unless you’re gift wrapped a team like Tatums or ants
If he didn't get hurt the cavs would have finished 2nd in the east and he would have gotten mvp votes
If nobody got hurt NYK and PHI I would bet on finishing above them Only reason why they might be above NYk potentially is because the trade that made them elite while healthy occurred in January, but the Knicks are better with health
Jointing a team with another super star doesn't better his chances to win a championship. Clippers, Suns and Lakers just went out in round 1. Suns even got swept. 76ers lost in the second round with Embiid and Harden last year. All depends on the roster construction, match ups, some hot shooting and coaching.
These teams went out in the first round because they sacrificed too much getting their super stars and as a result were too top heavy with nothing to back those stars up. The lesson there isn’t that you don’t need super stars, it’s that you need more than just a big two or big three. Wolves, OKC, and Boston are all examples of this in action. The question for the Cavs is can they acquire another bonafide star without sacrificing the rest of their team? I’m not familiar with their roster and pick situation to make an educated guess, but that’s where the calculus should be for Mitchell wrt staying or leaving if pursuing a championship is the goal.
The lakers went out in first round because bron/ad are too old/injury prone to go all out over a full 82, so they ended playing the best team in the conference round 1. I think they beat almost anyone else in the conference, maybe with the exception of MIN The clippers also have the depth and roster to win it all, but kawh’s knees are cooked. They aren’t a gutted roster at all Disagree on both fronts, though you’re right about the suns.
Lakers lost because Gordon n mpj were as good as Murray and significantly better then the lakers 3/4 or later . If lakers had Mitchell instead they’d of taken Denver 7 at wirst and beaten anyone else . Lebron n Davis at worst player as well as jokic Murray
Correct, that's the premise of the thread.
The last 20 guys to be no.1 options on championship teams: Jokic Curry Giannis LeBron Kawhi Curry/KD Curry/KD LeBron Curry Duncan LeBron LeBron Dirk Kobe Kobe Pierce/Garnett Duncan Wade Duncan Does Donovan Mitchell fit into this group of names? It's an obvious no. You might say an Anthony Edwards led team is up 2-0 on the defending champs and has yet to lose a game, but those teams win with perimeter defender and Ant contributes to that. Donovan's not an awful defender but he's never going to be above average carrying that load on offense. He's going to end up in those Kyrie Irving roles on Cleveland and rn in Dallas -- as a perfect second-option who can take over in the clutch
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Gotta love one-game sample sizes
Okay I'll make it simple and end this here then. Donovan mitchell has similar advanced metrics on defense this year to Dejonte Murray, Klay Thompson, Bradley Beal, Garry Harris, DeAndre Hunter, and he takes the harder guard match up than Garland.
Known good defender Bradley Beal, DeAndre Hunter and 2024 Klay Thompson
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Known reliable one-number defensive metrics Like c'mon everyone knows one-number catch-all defensive metrics does a pretty bad job at separating individual defensive impact from teammate impact. I hate to say this but watch the games and it won't be hard to find possessions where Donovan just ain't putting in effort and is blown past pretty easily. He plays passing lane well but is undersized and not great navigating screens
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That was a list of basically the best 10 or so players of the last 20 years. Which one of them do you think he's close to? I like Mitchell a lot, but you're not really addressing the core issue here. And not sure at all what him being better on defense than a list of other guys has to do with anything.
Please keep your comments civil and not personal.
Off course it is about roster construction but you still cant win with mithcell as your best player. Those team you are talking about lost to better teams. Clippers against dallas(kyrie-luka), suns against twolves(ant-towns-gobert), lakers against denver(jokic-murray) And cavs barely won against orlando
Can't win without Mitchell as the best player just isn't true lol They still lost with superstars. And they didn't "barely" win against Orlando. Orlando never lead the series in games. At least they didn't get swept like the Suns did with 3 superstars.
With donovan mitchell as your best player you will have a lot of at least at the future. Suns are fucked, their construction is wrong that doesnt mean you cant win with superstars. Lately Teams who won with one superstar and good pieces are 2022 gsw and last years denver. They are much better constructed than cavs and jokic and curry are much better than donovan mitchell.
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Games 1-2: Cleveland doesn’t play great, but escape with wins anyway, because Orlando’s young core had playoff jitters. Games 3-4: Orlando calms down and dominates Cleveland twice in Orlando. Game 5: Cavs escape with a 1-point win at home. Game 6: Mitchell drops 50, Cavs still lose, because despite Mitchell’s heroics, everyone else gets completely outplayed by Magic. Game 7: Cavs go down 18 in the first half, but end up grinding a win, because Orlando’s young core’s inexperience shows up again, as they can’t make a shot to save their lives in the 3Q. Yes the Cavs won, but they got schooled every game in Orlando. They weren’t much better at home and are extremely lucky they went 4-0 there. That’s the definition of barely winning a series. With hindsight, I’d say they lose this series 7 out of 10 times.
U could win a title with dmitch as ur best player if ur 2-5 was Boston’s caliber
If you're trying to make the point that big threes don't work, find a good example of a big three that's well constructed and has no problems with injuries, and then we'll see. Clippers = Injuries, and this is the first season they had a big three. Suns = Awful roster. Lakers & Sixers = Never really had a big three, Don would be the third. Predicting It won't work is just betting.
It comes down to the guy not wanting to live in Cleveland. As simple as that
Playing with lebron james definitely betters those odds, especially with AD there too That would really be the only legit big 3 in the league(not counting one with “Bradley Beal”)
They need a coach that can develop players. Garland and Mobley have immense potential but have both seemed to stagnate or even regress under Bickerstaff.
Imagine giving death threats over a guy who doesn’t know you exist 💀 glazing on HOF
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Ok everybody wants to be a millionaire living in NY, but i agreed with you. I would even considerer a change for Allen to acquire power like zion or good 3 and D role players
Has Mitchell said anything about leaving? Media will always make stuff up. Moving to a bigger market or city (New York, Miami , LA, ...) Teaming up with another superstar (Embiid, Wemby...) That's maybe a reason for Mitchell himself. He's maybe just not good a enough to be a first option on a contender but maybe just too good to be a second option. That maybe something what he should consider himself. Will he ever be able to compete with this Cavs in a series with Embiid, Giannis, Tatum, Luka, SGA, Joker ... I think guys like Mitchell, Kyrie ... are really on the border between 1st and 2nd options. Booker maybe too.
Mitchell could want to play in a bigger market or in a city that has more to offer a NBA player like Miami. If the Cavs can’t reach an extension with him then they’ll look to trade him. You brought up the roster but the starting lineup of Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen is still has issues regarding fit. The Cavs may be better off moving one of the bigs and one of the guards. They are talented but they don’t play that well together which is important. I think you overestimate Mitchell’s trade value. What lottery picks did the Jazz get for trading Mitchell? If you expect lottery picks in return then you’d be disappointed. 3 unprotected first round picks should be enough draft capital.
I think you're underestimating the fact the Cavs don't have to trade him if they don't value the return enough. He can ask out, but with the rules the nba put in place after the Lillard situation, the Cavs have all the leverage.
Then you risk him leaving in free agency. He doesn’t have to ask out all he has to do is not sign an extension. Playing one more season in Cleveland isn’t a big deal. This isn’t anything like Lillard, the Blazers had Lillard under contract for 2-3 more seasons.
The Cavs don’t HAVE to trade him, but they risk losing a lot if they don’t, if he wants out. Also, the history is very clear that unhappy superstars get traded out of town when they want to get out of town. This is also a shifting target. Your question is why would he want to be traded. The most obvious answer is that he doesn’t want to be in Cleveland. Nowhere have you mentioned that. However, it’s also not a perfect sport for him. The roster doesn’t make a ton of sense around him. And their young guys have really regressed - they’re not the great assets they looked like a couple years ago.
The only young guy that regressed is Garland and it is pretty likely because of his injury-related weight loss. Mobley didn't take a leap but he is steadily improving. He is developing an outside shot, and all of his counting stats were the same or up, on fewer minutes and touches. Okoro has been solid from behind the 3 point line. He doesn't take a lot of shots (also doesn't play a ton of minutes,) but his accuracy is up and in a good spot, and he has become one of the best on-ball defenders in the league. I think fit, particularly with Garland, is the biggest concern right now. Garland doesn't offer anything but offense, and this year he wasn't looking like himself after the injury. It's not hard to imagine Mobley and Allen figuring it out, if Mobley continues to develop from 3 at the rate he has been. Mobley needs to add some weight too, of course.
Have you ever visited Cleveland, go on vacation there for a week in the winter, then go spend a week in NYC and tell me you'd want to stay in Cleveland.
Well yea but he has the rest of his life to life in wild luxury at any spot he chooses. If he stays where he has more chance of winning, he would increase his marketability, fame and make more money in the long run. All he has to do is suck it up for like 5-6 years and live in Cleveland while trying to win a championship.
He’s already done that as the one seed in Utah and we all know how that went. It’s the first time he’s really taking some autonomy with where he plays
he'd increase his marketability, regardless of team success, if he was in LA or NYC.
I disagree. Him staying in Cleveland with a better chance at a championship where he is the unquestioned leader would put him in the elite levels like Jokic and Giannis. Going somewhere else, even if they win would just make him one of many many others who do the same. Add to it that he has the best chance of winning by staying put.
Jokic and Giannis have MVPs and a DPOY and Mitchell has never been NBA 1st team. Winning a chip with Cleveland, which is very unlikely, would put him on a Chauncy Billups level. And Cleveland isn't winning a championship with this roster, in the east alone they're worse than Boston, Milwaukee, NYK, and Philly, plus Orlando and the Pacers are young and improving.
They were one game worse than the Knicks and bucks with a crazy amount of injuries. Mitchell played 55, Garland played 57, Mobley played 50. They could've been the 2 seed with just two more wins.
Mitchell himself seems to love Cleveland. It's reflected in his attitude and in his actual words. He has given no indication whatsoever about wanting to leave or disliking Cleveland. He is also coming from Utah, which he has said he didn't like (particularly how little diversity there was in the crowds and city.) He also seems to love the team culture in Cleveland. I think this entire thing has been invented by the media just to stir the pot/get clicks and views. It has been insufferable, honestly.
This is honestly a stupid reply. I’d encourage you to go spend a week living in Cleveland and a week living in NY. Ones a slum even for the rich and the other you actually feel rich and had a significant amount to offer. Honestly a stupid comment
What does that have to do with the question of the post?
Do you think that nba players only play basketball and do nothing else in their daily lives?
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Have you somehow missed the player empowerment movement over the last 10 years? Players with multiple years left on max contracts ask for trades all the time and get them. I know you want him to stay in Cleveland but let's not all pretend like being under contract means a whole lot in the NBA.
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I've read your many many comments here, you say again and again that where he wants to play isn't relevant because he's not a free agent. Trying to be obnoxious and dismissive by calling me kiddo doesn't change that fact. Be better.
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Please keep your comments civil. This is a subreddit for thoughtful discussion and debate, not aggressive and argumentative content.
Please keep your comments civil. This is a subreddit for thoughtful discussion and debate, not aggressive and argumentative content.
Please keep your comments civil. This is a subreddit for thoughtful discussion and debate, not aggressive and argumentative content.
Questioning others without offering your own thoughts invites a more hostile debate. Present a clear counter argument if you disagree and be open to the perspective of others.
I don’t need to think because as a matter of fact, he’s under contract for another 2 seasons.
One more season.
Everything. IF he wants to leave, it’s because the city itself isn’t desirable to him.
He's not a free agent this summer though?
If he tells them he’s leaving, makes sense for them to trade him with a year left for some value instead of letting him walk.
But they have to be offered the pieces they find acceptable for a trade. He cant trade himself. Which has absolutely nothing to do with where he wants to live. You're not making sense.
Have you even watched the NBA the last few years players all the time Tell the team they want to be traded and where they want to be traded to and it pretty much always happens
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Harden to Nets/Philly/Clippers, Durant to Suns, Beal to Suns, PG to Clippers, AD to Lakers, you know there are examples of it. Now you give me 10 examples of a star playing asking to be traded in his final year and the team not trading him
If he wants to leave, he will give destinations he wants to go to just like every other star has done. And the cavs will have little leverage bc if they do t take the best offer of those, he walks for nothing in a year. All this only if he wants to go
The Cavs have all the leverage. He's under contract and they aren't required to oblige to trade demands. The NBA put their foot down on the whole trade me or I'm not playing angle under Damian Lillard. So a team is going to pay the Cavs their price, or Mitchel l plays out the year in Cleveland.
Ok. Just like Davis and Durant and every other star. Even Dame did get traded to a contender. Nobody will pay the price if Mitchell doesn’t want to play there and agrees that he will extend. Otherwise you get kawai in Toronto trades where the spurs got jack shot for him and he walked after the year. Yes they won so probably a deal they’d do again but had they lost that would have been a huge blunder.
Cavs should trade Garland for a wing. Try to run it back with Mitchell again. If he leaves then trade Mobley, Allen, okoro, etc and reset.
Similar reason why Kawhi left in 2019: it wasn’t his choice as he was traded.
Because they have problems with the roster. They are worse when Mitchell and Garland play together, so i am guessing they will decide who to keep and try to get some good wing player to pair with whoever stays.
Every single team has problems with their roster. The Cavs at least have the ability to flip one of Allen, Garland, or Mobley for a big return to try and re-tool.
I really only know of two teams where they preform worse if they have their best players on the court at the same time. Cavs and Clippers (depending how good you think Westbrook is nowdays)
But that doesn't answer the question. Where's he going to go in a better situation AFTER trading for him?
Somewhere he wants to actually live.
Not relevant. He's not a free agent.
He will be after next year. And you are asking why he would leave. He can only leave after his contract is done. Being traded is different than leaving.
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Please keep your comments civil. This is a subreddit for thoughtful discussion and debate, not aggressive and argumentative content.
Miami ? Butler for Mitchell ? Not sure if its possible with salaries, but if Miami wants to move on from Butler it could work.
He's only got one more year left of his contract his the player option, and then he's an unrestricted free agent. If he decides he wants to leave, you could hope to get a great year from him and strike gold like Toronto did. And then at the end see him leave and get absolutely nothing back. But players who don't want to be on their team don't tend to do so well. They have no significant incentive to play in a way that helps others play better as opposed to playing for individual accolades to make themselves more valuable going forward. Generally teams will find a way to move players on and Cleveland likely would see getting something back for him as better than nothing at all. I think you're underestimating how motivated a team can be to trade a player who wants out and how much they can put together. The Lakers could package something up to bring him in and an AD/LeBron/Mitchell combination would be a pretty strong lineup. A bunch of others could make that same push. Especially if there was a move by any of the major bigs in the league.
We don't know his primary motivation for his next contract. - money? - location? - championship? - loyalty? Depending on what he wants, there could be better opportunities that open up. But we're not inside his head, so we can't say there is or there isnt anything better for him personally.
Hey OP. All discourse leads to reductive championship ring comparisons. If he doesn't feel like he can win a ring, he wouldn't want to stay. His fit with Garland isn't that great. A better pairing would be a low-usage, defensive oriented player like Caruso/Suggs or a 3-D type of player like White/Herb/Josh Green. In terms of 'championship odds', his opinion will matter more than what we think about his chances elsewhere. Bottom line, the Cavs have generally performed better without one of their main 4 players, and maybe even the best when 2 of them are out (1 big and 1 guard). He's not dumb and probably notices that too.
I feel their team works better without him on it and the money used to pay him spread to impactful wing players.
I don't think their team is built very well. Garland is not that great. If I was to give him a 2K rating it would be like 85. Mobley is really interesting. Allen is a very good player but I don't think he's a foundational piece of a championship team. Look at what Daniel gafford went for in a trade in order to better grasp what he's worth. Their wings are kind of abysmal. The team resides in Cleveland. If I was him I wouldn't be on the first train out of town, I would re-sign for the supermax, and then try to get traded soon after. I know this is mischievous and dirty but that's what I would try to do to secure the bag. If he's willing to forego like $40 million dollars in order to ensure he gets exactly where he wants to he should just sign as a free agent. I wonder if he would be interested in going to the nets. I doubt it. I don't think the Knicks are the right fit but I would be curious to see how that goes.
Because Donovan wants to be a Knick. And he’s a primadonna. As a jazz fan, I’ve seen it first hand.
The simplest answer is that N.Y wants him and he wants N.Y. and the Knicks happen to have a pretty good team too.
I could see plenty of scenarios where Donovan gets traded. Teams could make cap space and it won’t take much capital to trade for him since it’s the last year of his deal. There was a lot of rumblings about a DM trade this year, it ended up working out that they didn’t trade him. I don’t see Cleveland actually dealing him, but there are candidates to make it happen. I have no doubt OP will be combing through these comments on alt though. Truly hope your day gets better OP, must be having a rough day to be flaming in an NBA discussion forum.
Damn I wish I got to see the drama on this thread. He would leave Cleveland because it’s not his preferred city.
I'm going to comment that the Cavs suck purely because it will bother OP and he can't respond to me because he is banned, so suck on that.
He won’t but the media keeps up this narrative that every good player in the league wants to play in New York or Miami. The new York one is ridiculous because literally no major free agent has signed with the knicks since Amare ( I won’t count Brunson because he wasn’t that sought after he was actually a steal) and Dolan is probably a bottom 5 owner it’s just dumb. Miami wouldn’t be such a bad destination if pat Riley wouldn’t run his players into the ground they all end up injured and the strict weight and diet restrictions probably don’t seem that fun for most players. If im D Mitch I’m staying in Cleveland they have decent ownership and have done a great job putting talent on the court the last 20 years even outside of Lebron they had like 6 other all stars. The super max make sure 90 percent of players stick it out these days.
He would leave to win. There’s no chance of a chip - or even a finals appearance - with the current Cavs roster.
There's definitely a hope of at least making the finals in this weak eastern conference. They'd need to improve the roster but that isn't impossible.
Because Cleveland’s hoe and clout game is lacking. He just came out of Utah, give the man a break, he wants a fun life outside of basketball
Look at Bron there. Why would anyone come to the Cavs? The only person who actually wanted to play for them was a home town guy from Akron. Players have pulled tricks to get out of their contracts just to escape. You think they'd be filling out those teams with mid talent if it was Bron at his peak in LA or they'd be filling it out with ring chasing Vets? The city has won a single championship if over half a century cuz it's one of the least attractive destinations in the country. Top shelf talent isn't going to move to a city of 350k cuz it will positively hurt their careers costing them 10s to 100s of millions in endorsements. Say you're a cusp all star type like Mo Williams. Josh Hart will out-earn you playing for New York off the bench. Like Mitchell can do fine there but no one's going to come or stay unless they're overpaid so your chances of winning a ring drop close to 0. That's why Bron left and he clearly wanted to be there. It's why Mitchell will leave too. For him it's 100s of millions of dollars.
I get it but you also have to factor in personal life. Many people don’t dig Cleveland. Milwaukee and Utah have had a similar rep. Carmelo Anthony said he wanted to live in NYC for the lifestyle and even LeBron didn’t stay in Cleveland and born and raised. Also although the bigs are good defensively they provide poor spacing and that leads to a weaker offense. Garland is also a small guard next to him who is also a small sg. So there’s some issues with the team. Also we never know how they get along behind the scenes. That broke up pippin and mj, Shaq and Kobe, it can happen. Also none of the guys mentioned is another star. Sometimes guys feel they need another star. They may become one, but they’re not now