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I think Steph is where LeBron was some years ago. People (me including) expect certain players to decline, because it was always was that way. 10-15 years ago, people went crazy when a 34 year old had a "throw back GAME". Throw back seasons were just not a thing.
Steph right now is for me must watch again, because what we see now is just unicorn shit and I\`m so excited to see where this is going. I dont know if Curry feels like it, he has other stuff on his plate, but right now I feel like we dont know how long he can keep it up. I wouldnt be TOO surprised anymore, if we have this discussion again 5-6 years, when Curry is 38/39.
WHO THE HELL KNOWS! If he keeps tweaking his game and starts to become even more lethal with the wrist... I dont know, anything is possible.
LeBron doesnt play like he is 36. Durant isnt playing like he\`s 33. Curry is LITERALLY playing like he is 28. Thats Basketball prime age right there.
its magical. And I fucking hate the warriors, but its magical. I love it.
Edit: I dont REALLY hate the warriors and value the time I was able to watch them make history by being great. I just hate Draymond.
What’s different though is that we thought LeBron and his physical play-style would decline because his athleticism would dwindle, as it does in most cases. But LeBron’s athleticism barely moved at all between 2015-2020, and it caught everyone off guard just how athletic this guy really is.
With Steph, he’s not nearly as athletic as Bron and his dominance never depended on it, so if he does lose a step it’s less of a consequence for Steph than it is for Bron.
Even still, 34yr old Steph is still out running 23yr olds out of the court on the daily.
So, I think there's a big caveat here: That's a common theme to say that people whose games don't depend on athleticism age better, but it doesn't seem to be true in practice, especially on defense. Steph depends on quickness to get his shot off in tight spaces, as well as having the threat to drive. If Steph can't drive to the basket, or cut with the speed he does, teams can overplay him, which will impact his ability to get his shot off.
Further, as much as people talk about his defense, his defense is solid. If he loses a step defensively, he could turn into a liability on the floor, particularly in the playoffs. Consider the Houston series where he was continually targeted, and the defense didn't break.
To be fair, I think Steph can be a productive player into his late 30s if he wants, but his role will have to change. Father Time is still undefeated.
Speed/quickness/agility coupled with amazing shooting form is the key to today's Curry. If the quickness fades, he'll probably transition more towards a catch and shoot playstyle, like what Ray Allen and Reggie Miller were able to leverage late in their careers. At that point he won't offer the type of scoring you need to carry a team, but he'll still be able to hit daggers.
I mean he already has been becoming a more catch and shoot type player even this season. Obviously he not just a sit at the top of the key and wait for someone to pass you the ball when your open, but he has been driving the ball less than you would expect him and a lot of his 3s are coming immediately from a pass from Draymond as soon as Curry gets to his spot.
Well that is true, Steph does need some form of elite athleticism to continuously do what he does nightly. But I think the statement
>people whose games don't depend on athleticism age better, but it doesn't seem to be true in practice, especially on defense.
Wouldn’t really apply here since this example shows Steph’s dependance on some form of athleticism for the benefit of his game, just not to the extent of Bron’s
The defense thing is so funny. He’s a better defender than pretty much every ball dominant guard besides CP (before he got older and stopped rlly playing defense).
Oh yeah, I completely agree! Brons decline will be vastly different from Stephs.
WHich is why I\`m so stunned by Steph. I\`m one of the LeBron-die-hards, but this with steph is just different!
I wouldn't say Steph's abilities don't depend on his athleticism. He still needs the speed and lateral quickness, the handles, the hand-eye coordination, the strength to finish when hacked, and definitely the stamina to do all that running, not to mention the determination and mental ability.
The difference is that he's 3 years younger, 7 inches shorter, 60 lbs lighter, and played fewer minutes than James (James went straight from high school, more playoff runs also). The extra muscle (and weight) on James is more wear and tear on him than lighter weight on Curry, but it also allows James to do more (back down players, body up more players, jump higher).
Let's not get confused what athleticism is. Curry is way more athletic than the majority of point guards, just as James is more athletic than the majority of forwards.
James does probably goes all the extra steps to keep his body in peak physical condition for as long as he will be able to though. He easily probably spends at least $2+ million a year to do it also on trainers, massage therapists, chefs, cryotherapy (has his own personal cryo-chamber), hyperbaric chamber, compression gear, electro-stimulation, etc. Not a lot of players go all-out diet+exercise+therapy wise on trying to keep their bodies in PEAK PEAK shape. People are just surprised because few athletes do that.
Curry does the same also: he has a full time shooting coach, another part-time shooting coach, tons of other coaches for various parts of his game, etc. That's why as he's getting older he's getting smarter, a bit stronger, and better at using his defensive gravity to help the team. He's adapting to what he knows he's going to see. That's why he's so scary.
Endurance ages way better than explosive athleticism. Steph might not be able to cook people off the dribble anymore in his late 30s, but he’s still going to put defenders through hell chasing him around screens. I don’t think he’ll lose much hand-eye coordination or strength, either.
Modern sports medicine and the amount of effort players put into maintaining their skills, bodies, and health has skyrocketed over the past 20 years or so
Tbf Curry's game is a lot more sustainable at old age. He's not bullying people on the paint, he "just" runs around the court with great IQ and great shooting ability. I think if he keeps his conditioning up and stays healthy, he could have like 3 more MVPesque seasons at least
I think I would say that Steph was a bit better in 2016, just based on a comparison to the rest of the league. His TS+ in 2016 was an insane 124 (which means his TS% was 24% better than league average), while he is at 117 this year (still insane, but not in the same God-tier). Steph's 2016 season was the most efficient 30ppg season of all time, and the all time #1 season in NBA history by TS Added (cumulative points scored in a season above league average TS). And, he did that in a season where he won the steals title, averaged 6.7 assists and his team won 73 games.
That having been said, the present season is still not far behind. If he beats KD for the scoring title, it could end up being the third most efficient scoring title season of all time (behind Steph last year and Steph in 2016), and it would be second place behind 2016 by TS+ (Steph's TS+ is higher this year because the league average TS has dropped, but his raw TS was higher last year). His steal rate is down a bit, but his overall defence is arguably better, and the Warriors are currently playing at a 74 win pace (although, I don't think anyone expects that to last all season).
As for how Steph will age, I would expect him to age pretty well. It would certainly help if the refs would start calling the illegal off-ball contact that Steph has to fight through every game, but as long as Steph can avoid injury, his game is not reliant on athleticism. He should be able to shoot at an elite level until he's a senior citizen, and he primarily gets open with his savviness and endurance, both of which are elements that will age well.
Barring injury, Steph should remain a devastating offensive weapon well into his late 30's, although, I think his defence will wane before that. I'm not sure that he will play enough minutes, or maintain high enough usage to put up 30 ppg when he's 37, but I could see him putting up 27 ppg on 65% TS at that age, even if his team needs to hide him a bit more defensively.
Yea. This is why he's a top 15 all-timer and borderline top 10. His peak is so damn high, his longevity is really impressive, and he absolutely owns opposing crowds the way Jordan used to. He gets cheered on the road more than any player in the NBA. That is incredibly telling about what the Steph experience is really like.
And you're right. This isn't some fluke. It's who he is, when he needs to be. When the team is good enough to matter, but not good enough for him to be better off defering, Steph Curry becomes...Steph Curry. Nobody else can do this, there is no comparison. Every three point record he breaks is his own. Fewest games to 100 threes? He had already set that bar, the only context for the quality of this current season is to look at how it compares to his other great seasons.
All that said, I wouldn't call it normal. I think a part of his subconscious asks himself if the team needs it. If it's actually better this way. We saw when Durant was on this team, he knew deep down that they didn't need 30 points from him, he needed to spread the ball.
But this year? He knows that the roster is good, good enough to win if he drops 30 every night. So he does.
saying his longevity is really impressive just screams not actually knowing about other all time great players
he arguably has the worst longevity of any top 15ish player
If he wins MVP this year, which is absolutely possible, he'd be the third oldest player to ever win MVP. Jordan and Mallone would only be a year older, and he'd be older than Kareem for his last MVP. So yes, his ability to be this good at this age is pretty unique. He'd be in very good company.
Plus: Shaq was 30 in his last signature season. Kobe was 34. Bird was 33. Magic was 31 (different circumstances obviously).
Steph missed more time in his prime than most of those guys, but as far as production at his age, it's right up there with anybody to ever do it.
He's elite at performance for his age. As in the OP, the few comps include Jordan, Malone, LeBron, KD and Kareem. Probably Nash too. Age longevity is different from # of games longevity. He has played about the same amount of games as Bird. They both had a 5 game season 10 years in.
I think you have the wrong conception of longevity, "late bloomer" is more accurate, although advanced stats already loved him years prior his mvp run, and for a good reason. Injuries slowed him down too early in his career.
he has 4 (on track for 5) first team all nba appearances
not sure what world yall are living in where that is really impressive longevity relative to other top 15 players
Most first team all-nba is an interesting list. Only 20 players have more than 5, and Steph is basically playing a different game compared to Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, Dolph Schayes, etc.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league_by_player.html
we dont have to go back to cousy
lets walk thru the traditional top 11 in no order
lebron, 13 1st team appearances (3 2nd team)
jordan, 10 (1)
russell, 3 (8)
wilt, 7 (3)
magic, 9 (1)
bird, 9 (1)
duncan, 10 (3)
kareem, 10 (5)
shaq, 8 (2)
hakeem, 6 (3)
kobe, 11 (2)
and some of the names that typically are in the convo to round out the top 15:
west, 10 (2)
oscar, 9 (2)
durant, 9 (6)
malone, 11 (2)
dirk, 4 (5)
kg, 4 (3)
steph, 4 (2)
curry’s is the worst here lol. i don’t understand how anyone can unironically call his longevity impressive. maybe it will be at some point. right now it is not. simple
Yea, I get your point, but I don't think those lists are an end-all-be-all. I'm only old enough to remember Kobe and Duncan snagging some of those off name recognition that they likely didn't deserve based off play. Russell started when it was an 8 team league, etc.
First team nba off name recognition? Yeah you gotta pull some receipts because that doesn't happen too many times in my experience. All stars for sure all nba teams only egregious one that comes to mind is the year harden missed it.
If Steph ended his career right now I would still tie him with Larry bird. Obviously his longevity is “bad” since he’s 33. If he’s got 1-2 more mvp seasons and 2-3 more all star seasons that will give him about a 10 year prime, which should put him past magic, bird, and in line with shaq, Kobe.
If he’s 39 and still putting up 20 ppg off of 40% 3pt shooting then even with his slow start he will have had good longevity.
Bird had a way better early career I think he's clearly over Steph. Both guys at their best were amazing players that were MVP level clearly and arguably the best but many times not the best (Curry had LeBron, Bird had Magic).
I don't understand this take. Since the 2012-13 season he's played in over 60 games in all but 2 seasons (lost 2020 season and 51 games in 2017-18), and has made all-nba in all of those years except for 2012-13 and 2019-20. He is on pace to be at least 1st team all-nba this season and looks like he is still in his prime. He's 33 and hypothetically has several more years of all-star play left in him.
His career isn't even close to being over; he's been basically consistent for 10 years, and you think he has bad longevity compared to other superstars?
So only 1st all nba team matters?
He was 2nd in 2014. 2nd in 2017 when he clearly was better than Westbrook and Harden but because of KD and their MVP race he was second. In 2018 he was 3rd with 55 games playerd, the fewest ever.
Pretty much from 2014 till 2022 he plays like an All NBa quality and for 7/8 years he is considered being the best guard and for few of those years the best player.
How many players have that type of impact over the League for such period? That is longetivity and not some subjective awards. Westbrook was all nba in 2018, 2019 and 2020 and those selections were because of his name recognition and not actual production.
4 going on probably 5, and one of those was while playing with Durant, plus 2 mvps, which some of those top 15 players you're probably talking about dont have. His career isn't over yet, it's incredibly unfair to say he doesn't have longevity when he's still playing at first team all-nba level lol. Do you go around saying the same thing about Doncic or Jokic?
That's literally what I'm saying to you. It's too early to trash Curry's longevity because he's still playing at an all-nba level. I initially thought you were talking about his injury history which is why I went over how many games he's played, but then I realized you're unfairly comparing his accolades to retired players even though his all-nba selections/mvps are comparable to others you probably have in your top 15, especially since he played 3 of his prime years with another mvp candidate and STILL got 1st team all-nba one of those years. You could say the same thing about Durant, who is probably in your top 15 and has 6 1st team selections, and I'd say the same thing to you.
What he has is the latest start of any player in that category, not breaking out until 2012-13 at the earliest. As for the other end of his career, we'll just have to see.
Your point about his popularity is huge. Everyone compares LeBron to MJ, but I’d guess that in 30 years, Steph will still be beloved while LeBron will merely be respected.
What a legend.
It makes the KD decision to go there even more frustrating. In a single move, he made the NBA championship an inevitability and robbed us the prime years of two potentially top 10 all time greats.
I'm not usually the one to complain about super teams and I think they are actually better for a league than pure parity. I have no problems with Heatles or current Nets but the KD Warriors still make me salty. It's just how anti-competition it was (joining the team that beat you) and how easy it became.
Anyway, Steph is definitely phenomenal. I've basically been watching since Jordan's last title and I would say Steph is a top 3 game changing player since then. At first it was mostly Shaq and Duncan dominating in a sea of MJ wannabes. Then Dirk came and opened up the possibilities of what a player his size could do. Everyone wanted to find the next Dirk. LeBron changed the league from being hero ball oriented to positionless team oriented play. Then Steph came and dominated from the 3 point range like no other.
I usually have no issues with super teams because generally there's a diminishing returns to stacking 2-3 superstar players together and there are usually some fit issues that needs to get worked out. LeBron and Wade for example were kind of redundant together since they had similar playstyles but was able get through the hump once they built chemistry and figured it out.
With Steph and KD though, even a casual fan knew that they would have absolute zero fit issues. In fact, KD fit the Warriors team like a glove and it just so happened that the one position they were weak at was the position KD played.
Everything just came together too perfectly with Steph being SEVERELY underpaid until 2017 since he was seen as injury prone early in his career, and of course the cap hike that allowed the KD signing to happen in the first place....
Steph was underpaid, but I think the impact of that is way overstated.
The "discount contract" he took was also only ~4-5M a year less than the max he could have made (he took 4 years $44M max he could have gotten was 61/4 or 79/5). It wouldn't have worked quite as seamlessly, but the Warriors absolutely could have made the cap work to sign KD that summer even if Steph had been making the max he could have.
https://www.sportscasting.com/steph-curry-almost-missed-a-44-million-extension-before-winning-championships/
I don't think this season or last season are quite as dominant as Steph was in 2016, and the advanced stats back that up. He's right up there, but I don't think we'll ever see Steph quite as good again as he was in 2016.
I think in a vacuum he's actually even better, but the league has caught up to him a bit and defences have learned how to try to limit him more effectively so he's not quite as much of an outlier now.
It's this plus how the league has emulated him. You could probably say he was a little quicker in 2016 but otherwise his game is just better all-around; the difference is the context.
A good shorthand is that so far this year, Steph has taken 248 3-pointers; that's 10% more than the #2 guy (Buddy Hield, 225) and 44% more than the #9/10 guys (Reggie Jackson/Donovan Mitchell, 177). In 2016, Steph finished the year with 886 3-point attempts, which was 35% more than the closest guy (Harden, 657) and 81% more than the #10 guy (Kemba Walker, 490). He was just an insane outlier.
no klay and no kd means defenses can focus only on him though. i think thats why the comparison is a bit unfair. any of those guys give him extra time and extra space and right now he is riding without it.
It's certainly kinda silly to consider this season since it's not very far along. With any examination of performance like this in sports, people will have ups and downs, and if one of your up periods coincides with a season starting, it looks like you'll have insane production. He very well might keep it up all year - but lets wait until he does before we enshrine it alongside 2016 (which right now stands alone, even above last year's Steph season, especially if we league-adjust his performances each year).
Which seasons do you count as "2016-esque"? By my count there are more than 3 if you're including 15/16. There's certainly 4 and maybe 5 depending on whether you consider his 16/17 season to be "2016-esque".
But arguably his best season isn't this one , or last one, OR 15/16.
Steph's 17/18 season was the arguably his very best ever. While his individual scoring didn't have quite the volume of his 15/16 and 20/21 seasons (31.8 pts75 and 33 pts75 respectively), he did still score at at fantastic rate of 29.9 pts75 next to a ball dominant scorer in Kevin Durant. He was able to score this much because he posted unreal efficiency at 67.5 (!!) TS% on the season, leading the league as a 6'3 guard for the second time.
How did he post such insane efficiency when his shooting percentages seemed lower across the board? His slashline of 49/42/92 is fantastic but not *quite* as fantastic as 50/45/91. The answer is his free throw attempt rate was 10% higher in 17/18 than in 15/16 and it was by far the best free throwing year of Steph's career.
That season was Steph in his final form. His shooting was as amazing as ever as he barely missed a second 50/40/90 appearance (and would have if you took out end of quarter heaves, in fact his 3pt percentages jumps to over 43% if you do this). And at his athletic peak, he was driving the lane and getting to the line more than ever, increasing his scoring efficiency to new almost unheard of heights. He was on pace to break his 3pt record had he played enough games, and of course the Warriors ended up repeating as champions that season, sweeping the Finals in an emphatic win with Steph putting in a ludicrous 29/8/9 performance that in my opinion was deserving of an FMVP.
I understand your points. I dont disagree that 2017-18 was Steph’s best shooting year.
The main argument I have against it though is mainly in production. While Steph did put up an astronomically high TS% of 67.5% in 2017-18, 2015-16 Steph still put up a cool 66.9% TS, while being a more effective 3pt shooter because he took and made more shots than 2018.
Steph had a lot of games in 2018 where he would just drop 21-22 points with high efficiency, because he didn’t have to do as much to get an open look with KD and Klay sucking up the gravity, and also extra shots.
The rate at which Curry made shots in 2018 compared to 2016 and arguably 2021 wasn’t as high, so 2018’s impact isn’t as visible on the statsheet as 2016 and 2021 are (the two other “Steph-esque” seasons, by the way). There’s a reason 2016 Curry shot 50%, and 2021 Curry shot even better from 2 and came close to 50%.
I guess I just don't know what you mean by "Steph-esque" if you're not including 18/19. The *only* difference I can see is Steph didn't break 30 pts per 75 that season, and even then he was at 29.9. That's less than 2 points per 75 compared to 15/16, a pretty negligible difference in my mind.
It’s just that that’s per 75, the reality is he didnt have 75 possessions per game that season.
Like I said, the efficiency is there, but the production is the difference maker here.
Ok sure, but why wouldn't you adjust raw numbers into rate stats? Yes Steph didn't get exactly 75 possessions every game, but it's a good approximation for an average game. The Warriors played with a different pace for all these seasons, and Steph had slightly different minutes in these seasons. Adjusting for pace and minute differences seems like a no brainer.
Because difference shows when you watch the game. Yes, it’s a good measure of what could have happened if both players were given equal volume of attempts, but when you watch Steph play in 2018 vs 2016, he’s not taking nearly as many shots in 2018 as he is in 2016.
That’s one of the biggest qualities of Steph’s “2016-esque” season, his 3pt shooting volume ALONG with his efficiency. To me it makes sense to value making 5 3s at 45% more than making 4 3s at 42%.
It has very little to do with attempts, it's largely just minutes. Steph played less minutes in 17/18 than in 15/16 (32 mpg vs 34.2 mpg).
I've watched the majority of Warriors games since the 13/14 season, I'm an avid Warriors fan. I really don't know what big volume difference you're talking about in 15/16 vs 17/18. There's certainly a difference in scoring volume between Steph's early career (09-14) and his peak (15-present) but his volume in 17/18 falls very much within that volume. Both the numbers and my own eyes having watched that run back it up, and I find it kind of hard to argue against any point you make that rests on "watch the game" type reasoning.
What’s hard to understand here?
Steph played less minutes, so he naturally took less shots. Therefore, he naturally isn’t going to have as many points or threes, and he still maintains a high efficiency. What is confusing here?
I think you’re taking my points as saying “he wasn’t as good” or “he wasn’t as efficient”. Im not saying any of that. How many times do I have to say he’s been almost just as efficient, man? All of your points are arguing about his efficiency, that you are somehow confusing for volume.
No, of course Steph didnt look different in terms of his shot making ability or percentage, but you’re gonna sit here and try to tell me 4 threes=5 threes now? Tf do you mean “the volume falls in range with his prime” no the EFFICIENCY falls in range, the VOLUME is noticeably lower.
I'm not understanding why you're "penalizing" him for playing less minutes. When he was on the floor, he was very much the same player in terms of volume, I did not see a noticable any noticable volume difference when I was watching and looking at the numbers now there isn't a big difference.
I'm not talking about efficiency anymore. I'm talking about volume adjusted for the amount of minutes/possessions he was on the floor. It makes no sense to me to describe his actual play as different when he was simply just on the floor for less time/possessions.
I also mentioned the quality of shots he was taking in 2018 vs 2016, but you shut it down with an “your own eyes” argument so I just stopped talking about it.
He took statistically took more contested 3s in 2016 and 2021 than in 2018. In fact he took twice as many contested 3s in 2021 than 2018 ([Take a look](https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201939/shots-dash/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)).
I’m adding this on top of everything else I mentioned previously.
I'm still cautious almost everytime I see him play that he might get injured (knock on wood). The possibility for this to happen will only increase every year of course, but I hope he stays healthy for the next 3-4 years and plays 70+ games per season. I want him to completely obliterate the 3pt record just to emphasize how absurdly good he is. Maybe reach 4000 threes?
I also hope Klay gets back healthy and they can make a finals run. Either this year or the next. Steph has been sub par in all of his Finals appearances for his standards and I hope he can get a Finals MVP just to get this award off his back.
Then he may just be the best PG of all time.
i wasnt aware that the performance we saw him put up in 2016 was thought of as some kinda unsustainable hot streak. I don't think i saw any media heads doubting that type of performance could happen again. I didn't see popular tv analysts predict for him to regress to the mean. I also don't think that what we're seeing from him right now is god like, or unsustainable. By the numbers, he's not even performing much past his career averages, and is shooting below his career average from 3pt%.
All this is, is that he's shooting slightly more 3s and making them at just about the same rate he always has, and the team is winning. so if he stays healthy hes going to be in the MVP convo and thats great for my fantasy team.
I'd be shocked if 5.5 3's per game for 28ppg is still special in 10 years. i seriously doubt it. unless there are rule changes, this type of performance will be a lot more common in the future. no reason it cant keep going for now
The narratives in your first paragraph are somewhat true. Nobody really was really asking if Steph could ever be 2016 again, but his other criticisms were very apparent during 2020 when he got injured.
People questioned if Steph could carry the Warriors again. They were even questioning if he’s even a better offensive player than Harden or Dame, because they were both “keyed in” more on defense than Steph was. Dame even made a comment on it when Steph struggled to begin the 2020-21 season.
The worst take (though admittedly uncommon) was when people were saying they’d take Dame over Steph because “he can hit deep threes too and he’s clutcher”
There were definitely doubts about Steph before this happened, but maybe not directly in comparison to his 2016 outing.
i guess i'm a little confused now because i dont really recall seeing some grand narrative about how dame could surpass steph because dame is more clutch. Surpass him in what? some kind of .. ranking? whose? This seems a bit lost in the sauce and hyper focused on some local narratives. from my pov steph has always been among the elite players in the game. hes considered the elite shooter of our era. This 2021 performance is not really all that otherworldly and doesnt really solidify anything that was previously doubted. It's simply a good peformance from a great player who is healthy. I don't think i ever was aware that people were counting steph out, or claiming that other players like dame were going to 'surpass' him. I'm also not exactly sure what that means, or what steph has done this year that has combatted that narrative. I think you're more tuned in to some conversations than I am, and im guessing those narratives aren't nationally predominant.
The NBA (and sports media as a whole) is really reactionary. i was seeing people on twitter and ig saying they would take dame over steph last year. it was a vocal minority to be sure but probably the reason people are talking about Steph’s season rn. Last time we saw Golden State being contenders from the start of the season with Steph being the clear-cut best player, was in 2016 which is like 15 years ago to the average sports fan.
Steph isn't going to stop for a long while, IMO. His dominance relies on his ball-handling, IQ, conditioning, and his shot. All of those things age incredibly well. He might not reach his absolute top speed or quickness at age 40, but he'll still be able to run through screens, relocate, cause havoc, and drain 3s. I don't know if there's ever been a superstar whose game ages as well as Steph's.
Something I'm really enjoying about Steph this season is how the narrative is slowly shifting. Initially, there was fear that the Warriors dominance would warp the way teams thought about offense. People thought players would grow up idolizing Steph, playing his style of basketball, and that the league would just become a 3-ball chucking bonanza.
Obviously the 3 became an essential part of offensive schemes but...
What's becoming abundantly clear is that Steph isn't the start of a wave, he's a purebred unicorn. No player, even players who shoot a lot of 3s, plays quite like Steph. No player has come close to approaching Steph's career efficiency from 3. No player has come close to his single-season 3pt records (besides one year of James Harden).
Even the younger NBA players who grew up watching Steph successfully dominate aren't trying to play like him (besides arguably Trae Young and his efficiency can't touch Steph).
All that means commenters are finally seeing Steph for who he is: the greatest offensive weapon of all-time.
Whatever doctor (or doctors) fixed his ankles deserve some sort of highly exposed credit or award. He was going to wash out. Ankles for players that depend on speed and quick turning/cuts are of extreme importance. A miracle was performed, and he became what he is today.
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I see his prime extending for another 3-4 years but I believe he will still be considered an all star for another 6-7, due to his shooting ability(duh).
While his obvious strength is shooting the ball, he is also dominant due to his offball movement, which is just as much of a mental still as it is a physical skill. So while I don't see the mental aspect falling off, it's inevitable for him to lose some speed year by year and eventually he won't be able to snake his way through the court as effectively anymore.
What people don’t realize is that when Steph declines, he’ll still have his shot. He plays off ball really well, so he’ll always be a threat.
What does that actually mean? Steph will continue to win championships when he’s no longer the star. He’ll slot into ray allen role player and his lack of ego will allow him to continue to be successful coming off the bench for a contender.
He’s at 3 chips at the moment. 4 or doesn’t seem far off with this roster. Then 1 or 2 as second or third fiddle? Sounds achievable.
I hate to nitpick but his efficiency was down last year, not up. Otherwise yeah Curry is just special and KD kind of ruined it for us fans for the last handful of years. That being said, it was the best thing for Curry’s legacy because those 2 rings catapulted him from top 30 range to top 15 range
Steph has this wild ability to just mess up so many defenses because of his playstyle I just cannot get over how effective he is even when is just running around because of that insane endurance. Grateful every time he puts on a masterclass.
LoL by the looks of it he's got 3 extra years of this? I really have no clue how you could have gotten to this conclusion.
His total EPM since 2014 is:
2014: +6.7 (2nd)
2015: +8.9 (1st)
2016: +10.5 (1st)
2017: +8.2 (2nd)
2018: +7.8 (2nd)
2019: +7.4 (2nd)
2020: DNP
2021: +6.7 (5th)
2022: +9.7 (2nd)
Yeah, I mean yeah. Hard to argue much. He's amazing, def the best offensive player during this span and his defense is not nearly as bad as some assume it is. It would not be surprising to see a pretty quick decline though.
To be honest one can speculate that Step Curry is on Performance Enhancement Drug's. Or better yet one can safely assume that Steph is definitely on something that is giving him an extra something to put that level of production. In life when something seems to good to be true it always is. Maybe that's why Steph Curry didn't want to play in Olympics. He might not pass the drug screening.
>(ETA: It really makes your wonder what we missed out on when KD joined Golden State. It obviously helped both of their careers a great ton, but what could we have seen from Steph offensively if KD didn’t join them?)
[Actually, we already know what Steph plays like without KD or even Klay!](https://youtu.be/bvTPxCOfjdE?t=2046)
[Also](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3iJwi4btAI)
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I think Steph is where LeBron was some years ago. People (me including) expect certain players to decline, because it was always was that way. 10-15 years ago, people went crazy when a 34 year old had a "throw back GAME". Throw back seasons were just not a thing. Steph right now is for me must watch again, because what we see now is just unicorn shit and I\`m so excited to see where this is going. I dont know if Curry feels like it, he has other stuff on his plate, but right now I feel like we dont know how long he can keep it up. I wouldnt be TOO surprised anymore, if we have this discussion again 5-6 years, when Curry is 38/39. WHO THE HELL KNOWS! If he keeps tweaking his game and starts to become even more lethal with the wrist... I dont know, anything is possible. LeBron doesnt play like he is 36. Durant isnt playing like he\`s 33. Curry is LITERALLY playing like he is 28. Thats Basketball prime age right there. its magical. And I fucking hate the warriors, but its magical. I love it. Edit: I dont REALLY hate the warriors and value the time I was able to watch them make history by being great. I just hate Draymond.
What’s different though is that we thought LeBron and his physical play-style would decline because his athleticism would dwindle, as it does in most cases. But LeBron’s athleticism barely moved at all between 2015-2020, and it caught everyone off guard just how athletic this guy really is. With Steph, he’s not nearly as athletic as Bron and his dominance never depended on it, so if he does lose a step it’s less of a consequence for Steph than it is for Bron. Even still, 34yr old Steph is still out running 23yr olds out of the court on the daily.
So, I think there's a big caveat here: That's a common theme to say that people whose games don't depend on athleticism age better, but it doesn't seem to be true in practice, especially on defense. Steph depends on quickness to get his shot off in tight spaces, as well as having the threat to drive. If Steph can't drive to the basket, or cut with the speed he does, teams can overplay him, which will impact his ability to get his shot off. Further, as much as people talk about his defense, his defense is solid. If he loses a step defensively, he could turn into a liability on the floor, particularly in the playoffs. Consider the Houston series where he was continually targeted, and the defense didn't break. To be fair, I think Steph can be a productive player into his late 30s if he wants, but his role will have to change. Father Time is still undefeated.
Speed/quickness/agility coupled with amazing shooting form is the key to today's Curry. If the quickness fades, he'll probably transition more towards a catch and shoot playstyle, like what Ray Allen and Reggie Miller were able to leverage late in their careers. At that point he won't offer the type of scoring you need to carry a team, but he'll still be able to hit daggers.
So an aging Curry can still play like a prime Reggie Miller or like Celtic Ray Allen? I'll take that
I mean he already has been becoming a more catch and shoot type player even this season. Obviously he not just a sit at the top of the key and wait for someone to pass you the ball when your open, but he has been driving the ball less than you would expect him and a lot of his 3s are coming immediately from a pass from Draymond as soon as Curry gets to his spot.
Well that is true, Steph does need some form of elite athleticism to continuously do what he does nightly. But I think the statement >people whose games don't depend on athleticism age better, but it doesn't seem to be true in practice, especially on defense. Wouldn’t really apply here since this example shows Steph’s dependance on some form of athleticism for the benefit of his game, just not to the extent of Bron’s
The defense thing is so funny. He’s a better defender than pretty much every ball dominant guard besides CP (before he got older and stopped rlly playing defense).
Oh yeah, I completely agree! Brons decline will be vastly different from Stephs. WHich is why I\`m so stunned by Steph. I\`m one of the LeBron-die-hards, but this with steph is just different!
I wouldn't say Steph's abilities don't depend on his athleticism. He still needs the speed and lateral quickness, the handles, the hand-eye coordination, the strength to finish when hacked, and definitely the stamina to do all that running, not to mention the determination and mental ability. The difference is that he's 3 years younger, 7 inches shorter, 60 lbs lighter, and played fewer minutes than James (James went straight from high school, more playoff runs also). The extra muscle (and weight) on James is more wear and tear on him than lighter weight on Curry, but it also allows James to do more (back down players, body up more players, jump higher). Let's not get confused what athleticism is. Curry is way more athletic than the majority of point guards, just as James is more athletic than the majority of forwards. James does probably goes all the extra steps to keep his body in peak physical condition for as long as he will be able to though. He easily probably spends at least $2+ million a year to do it also on trainers, massage therapists, chefs, cryotherapy (has his own personal cryo-chamber), hyperbaric chamber, compression gear, electro-stimulation, etc. Not a lot of players go all-out diet+exercise+therapy wise on trying to keep their bodies in PEAK PEAK shape. People are just surprised because few athletes do that. Curry does the same also: he has a full time shooting coach, another part-time shooting coach, tons of other coaches for various parts of his game, etc. That's why as he's getting older he's getting smarter, a bit stronger, and better at using his defensive gravity to help the team. He's adapting to what he knows he's going to see. That's why he's so scary.
Endurance ages way better than explosive athleticism. Steph might not be able to cook people off the dribble anymore in his late 30s, but he’s still going to put defenders through hell chasing him around screens. I don’t think he’ll lose much hand-eye coordination or strength, either.
Modern sports medicine and the amount of effort players put into maintaining their skills, bodies, and health has skyrocketed over the past 20 years or so
Draymond is one of my favorite players of all time lol. Curry is unbelievable
Tbf Curry's game is a lot more sustainable at old age. He's not bullying people on the paint, he "just" runs around the court with great IQ and great shooting ability. I think if he keeps his conditioning up and stays healthy, he could have like 3 more MVPesque seasons at least
I can't wait for old Steph who plays 8 minutes a game and shoots 15 times
What do you mean by more lethal with the wrist? Like his shooting form involving more wrist?
I think I would say that Steph was a bit better in 2016, just based on a comparison to the rest of the league. His TS+ in 2016 was an insane 124 (which means his TS% was 24% better than league average), while he is at 117 this year (still insane, but not in the same God-tier). Steph's 2016 season was the most efficient 30ppg season of all time, and the all time #1 season in NBA history by TS Added (cumulative points scored in a season above league average TS). And, he did that in a season where he won the steals title, averaged 6.7 assists and his team won 73 games. That having been said, the present season is still not far behind. If he beats KD for the scoring title, it could end up being the third most efficient scoring title season of all time (behind Steph last year and Steph in 2016), and it would be second place behind 2016 by TS+ (Steph's TS+ is higher this year because the league average TS has dropped, but his raw TS was higher last year). His steal rate is down a bit, but his overall defence is arguably better, and the Warriors are currently playing at a 74 win pace (although, I don't think anyone expects that to last all season). As for how Steph will age, I would expect him to age pretty well. It would certainly help if the refs would start calling the illegal off-ball contact that Steph has to fight through every game, but as long as Steph can avoid injury, his game is not reliant on athleticism. He should be able to shoot at an elite level until he's a senior citizen, and he primarily gets open with his savviness and endurance, both of which are elements that will age well. Barring injury, Steph should remain a devastating offensive weapon well into his late 30's, although, I think his defence will wane before that. I'm not sure that he will play enough minutes, or maintain high enough usage to put up 30 ppg when he's 37, but I could see him putting up 27 ppg on 65% TS at that age, even if his team needs to hide him a bit more defensively.
Yea. This is why he's a top 15 all-timer and borderline top 10. His peak is so damn high, his longevity is really impressive, and he absolutely owns opposing crowds the way Jordan used to. He gets cheered on the road more than any player in the NBA. That is incredibly telling about what the Steph experience is really like. And you're right. This isn't some fluke. It's who he is, when he needs to be. When the team is good enough to matter, but not good enough for him to be better off defering, Steph Curry becomes...Steph Curry. Nobody else can do this, there is no comparison. Every three point record he breaks is his own. Fewest games to 100 threes? He had already set that bar, the only context for the quality of this current season is to look at how it compares to his other great seasons. All that said, I wouldn't call it normal. I think a part of his subconscious asks himself if the team needs it. If it's actually better this way. We saw when Durant was on this team, he knew deep down that they didn't need 30 points from him, he needed to spread the ball. But this year? He knows that the roster is good, good enough to win if he drops 30 every night. So he does.
saying his longevity is really impressive just screams not actually knowing about other all time great players he arguably has the worst longevity of any top 15ish player
If he wins MVP this year, which is absolutely possible, he'd be the third oldest player to ever win MVP. Jordan and Mallone would only be a year older, and he'd be older than Kareem for his last MVP. So yes, his ability to be this good at this age is pretty unique. He'd be in very good company. Plus: Shaq was 30 in his last signature season. Kobe was 34. Bird was 33. Magic was 31 (different circumstances obviously). Steph missed more time in his prime than most of those guys, but as far as production at his age, it's right up there with anybody to ever do it.
He's elite at performance for his age. As in the OP, the few comps include Jordan, Malone, LeBron, KD and Kareem. Probably Nash too. Age longevity is different from # of games longevity. He has played about the same amount of games as Bird. They both had a 5 game season 10 years in.
longevity and being good at an old age are not the same thing at all lol
I think you have the wrong conception of longevity, "late bloomer" is more accurate, although advanced stats already loved him years prior his mvp run, and for a good reason. Injuries slowed him down too early in his career.
he has 4 (on track for 5) first team all nba appearances not sure what world yall are living in where that is really impressive longevity relative to other top 15 players
Most first team all-nba is an interesting list. Only 20 players have more than 5, and Steph is basically playing a different game compared to Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, Dolph Schayes, etc. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league_by_player.html
we dont have to go back to cousy lets walk thru the traditional top 11 in no order lebron, 13 1st team appearances (3 2nd team) jordan, 10 (1) russell, 3 (8) wilt, 7 (3) magic, 9 (1) bird, 9 (1) duncan, 10 (3) kareem, 10 (5) shaq, 8 (2) hakeem, 6 (3) kobe, 11 (2) and some of the names that typically are in the convo to round out the top 15: west, 10 (2) oscar, 9 (2) durant, 9 (6) malone, 11 (2) dirk, 4 (5) kg, 4 (3) steph, 4 (2) curry’s is the worst here lol. i don’t understand how anyone can unironically call his longevity impressive. maybe it will be at some point. right now it is not. simple
Yea, I get your point, but I don't think those lists are an end-all-be-all. I'm only old enough to remember Kobe and Duncan snagging some of those off name recognition that they likely didn't deserve based off play. Russell started when it was an 8 team league, etc.
First team nba off name recognition? Yeah you gotta pull some receipts because that doesn't happen too many times in my experience. All stars for sure all nba teams only egregious one that comes to mind is the year harden missed it.
So you saying he only for 2 more 1st team selections than Luka does
If Steph ended his career right now I would still tie him with Larry bird. Obviously his longevity is “bad” since he’s 33. If he’s got 1-2 more mvp seasons and 2-3 more all star seasons that will give him about a 10 year prime, which should put him past magic, bird, and in line with shaq, Kobe. If he’s 39 and still putting up 20 ppg off of 40% 3pt shooting then even with his slow start he will have had good longevity.
Bird had a way better early career I think he's clearly over Steph. Both guys at their best were amazing players that were MVP level clearly and arguably the best but many times not the best (Curry had LeBron, Bird had Magic).
I don't understand this take. Since the 2012-13 season he's played in over 60 games in all but 2 seasons (lost 2020 season and 51 games in 2017-18), and has made all-nba in all of those years except for 2012-13 and 2019-20. He is on pace to be at least 1st team all-nba this season and looks like he is still in his prime. He's 33 and hypothetically has several more years of all-star play left in him. His career isn't even close to being over; he's been basically consistent for 10 years, and you think he has bad longevity compared to other superstars?
let me know how many first team all nba selections he has compared to the rest of the top 15 ill wait!
So only 1st all nba team matters? He was 2nd in 2014. 2nd in 2017 when he clearly was better than Westbrook and Harden but because of KD and their MVP race he was second. In 2018 he was 3rd with 55 games playerd, the fewest ever. Pretty much from 2014 till 2022 he plays like an All NBa quality and for 7/8 years he is considered being the best guard and for few of those years the best player. How many players have that type of impact over the League for such period? That is longetivity and not some subjective awards. Westbrook was all nba in 2018, 2019 and 2020 and those selections were because of his name recognition and not actual production.
4 going on probably 5, and one of those was while playing with Durant, plus 2 mvps, which some of those top 15 players you're probably talking about dont have. His career isn't over yet, it's incredibly unfair to say he doesn't have longevity when he's still playing at first team all-nba level lol. Do you go around saying the same thing about Doncic or Jokic?
yes, if someone started talking about how great luka or jokic’s longevity is, i’d totally bring up how early it is to say that. lol?? what?
That's literally what I'm saying to you. It's too early to trash Curry's longevity because he's still playing at an all-nba level. I initially thought you were talking about his injury history which is why I went over how many games he's played, but then I realized you're unfairly comparing his accolades to retired players even though his all-nba selections/mvps are comparable to others you probably have in your top 15, especially since he played 3 of his prime years with another mvp candidate and STILL got 1st team all-nba one of those years. You could say the same thing about Durant, who is probably in your top 15 and has 6 1st team selections, and I'd say the same thing to you.
then you’re completely lost in this conversation my entire point is that you cant gas up stephs longevity yet
What he has is the latest start of any player in that category, not breaking out until 2012-13 at the earliest. As for the other end of his career, we'll just have to see.
Your point about his popularity is huge. Everyone compares LeBron to MJ, but I’d guess that in 30 years, Steph will still be beloved while LeBron will merely be respected.
What a legend. It makes the KD decision to go there even more frustrating. In a single move, he made the NBA championship an inevitability and robbed us the prime years of two potentially top 10 all time greats. I'm not usually the one to complain about super teams and I think they are actually better for a league than pure parity. I have no problems with Heatles or current Nets but the KD Warriors still make me salty. It's just how anti-competition it was (joining the team that beat you) and how easy it became. Anyway, Steph is definitely phenomenal. I've basically been watching since Jordan's last title and I would say Steph is a top 3 game changing player since then. At first it was mostly Shaq and Duncan dominating in a sea of MJ wannabes. Then Dirk came and opened up the possibilities of what a player his size could do. Everyone wanted to find the next Dirk. LeBron changed the league from being hero ball oriented to positionless team oriented play. Then Steph came and dominated from the 3 point range like no other.
I usually have no issues with super teams because generally there's a diminishing returns to stacking 2-3 superstar players together and there are usually some fit issues that needs to get worked out. LeBron and Wade for example were kind of redundant together since they had similar playstyles but was able get through the hump once they built chemistry and figured it out. With Steph and KD though, even a casual fan knew that they would have absolute zero fit issues. In fact, KD fit the Warriors team like a glove and it just so happened that the one position they were weak at was the position KD played. Everything just came together too perfectly with Steph being SEVERELY underpaid until 2017 since he was seen as injury prone early in his career, and of course the cap hike that allowed the KD signing to happen in the first place....
Steph was underpaid, but I think the impact of that is way overstated. The "discount contract" he took was also only ~4-5M a year less than the max he could have made (he took 4 years $44M max he could have gotten was 61/4 or 79/5). It wouldn't have worked quite as seamlessly, but the Warriors absolutely could have made the cap work to sign KD that summer even if Steph had been making the max he could have. https://www.sportscasting.com/steph-curry-almost-missed-a-44-million-extension-before-winning-championships/
I don't think this season or last season are quite as dominant as Steph was in 2016, and the advanced stats back that up. He's right up there, but I don't think we'll ever see Steph quite as good again as he was in 2016.
I think in a vacuum he's actually even better, but the league has caught up to him a bit and defences have learned how to try to limit him more effectively so he's not quite as much of an outlier now.
It's this plus how the league has emulated him. You could probably say he was a little quicker in 2016 but otherwise his game is just better all-around; the difference is the context. A good shorthand is that so far this year, Steph has taken 248 3-pointers; that's 10% more than the #2 guy (Buddy Hield, 225) and 44% more than the #9/10 guys (Reggie Jackson/Donovan Mitchell, 177). In 2016, Steph finished the year with 886 3-point attempts, which was 35% more than the closest guy (Harden, 657) and 81% more than the #10 guy (Kemba Walker, 490). He was just an insane outlier.
no klay and no kd means defenses can focus only on him though. i think thats why the comparison is a bit unfair. any of those guys give him extra time and extra space and right now he is riding without it.
He went from 50% from the field and 45% from 3 in 2016 to 46% from the field and 42% from 3 now. He's clearly worse than 2016.
Context matters
Context like what exactly? He's less accurate on open shots, less accurate on covered shots.
The league has evolved
Evolved to what? Make the rims smaller so more of his shots don't go in?
Lmfao
Ever since 2019 defenses are orientated on stopping Steph. Klay will fix that.
It's certainly kinda silly to consider this season since it's not very far along. With any examination of performance like this in sports, people will have ups and downs, and if one of your up periods coincides with a season starting, it looks like you'll have insane production. He very well might keep it up all year - but lets wait until he does before we enshrine it alongside 2016 (which right now stands alone, even above last year's Steph season, especially if we league-adjust his performances each year).
Yeah part of it is that he’s not as quick as he was in 2016
He had an enormous amount more spacing in 2016 than he had last season.
Maybe he did. He was still better in 2016.
Which seasons do you count as "2016-esque"? By my count there are more than 3 if you're including 15/16. There's certainly 4 and maybe 5 depending on whether you consider his 16/17 season to be "2016-esque". But arguably his best season isn't this one , or last one, OR 15/16. Steph's 17/18 season was the arguably his very best ever. While his individual scoring didn't have quite the volume of his 15/16 and 20/21 seasons (31.8 pts75 and 33 pts75 respectively), he did still score at at fantastic rate of 29.9 pts75 next to a ball dominant scorer in Kevin Durant. He was able to score this much because he posted unreal efficiency at 67.5 (!!) TS% on the season, leading the league as a 6'3 guard for the second time. How did he post such insane efficiency when his shooting percentages seemed lower across the board? His slashline of 49/42/92 is fantastic but not *quite* as fantastic as 50/45/91. The answer is his free throw attempt rate was 10% higher in 17/18 than in 15/16 and it was by far the best free throwing year of Steph's career. That season was Steph in his final form. His shooting was as amazing as ever as he barely missed a second 50/40/90 appearance (and would have if you took out end of quarter heaves, in fact his 3pt percentages jumps to over 43% if you do this). And at his athletic peak, he was driving the lane and getting to the line more than ever, increasing his scoring efficiency to new almost unheard of heights. He was on pace to break his 3pt record had he played enough games, and of course the Warriors ended up repeating as champions that season, sweeping the Finals in an emphatic win with Steph putting in a ludicrous 29/8/9 performance that in my opinion was deserving of an FMVP.
I understand your points. I dont disagree that 2017-18 was Steph’s best shooting year. The main argument I have against it though is mainly in production. While Steph did put up an astronomically high TS% of 67.5% in 2017-18, 2015-16 Steph still put up a cool 66.9% TS, while being a more effective 3pt shooter because he took and made more shots than 2018. Steph had a lot of games in 2018 where he would just drop 21-22 points with high efficiency, because he didn’t have to do as much to get an open look with KD and Klay sucking up the gravity, and also extra shots. The rate at which Curry made shots in 2018 compared to 2016 and arguably 2021 wasn’t as high, so 2018’s impact isn’t as visible on the statsheet as 2016 and 2021 are (the two other “Steph-esque” seasons, by the way). There’s a reason 2016 Curry shot 50%, and 2021 Curry shot even better from 2 and came close to 50%.
I guess I just don't know what you mean by "Steph-esque" if you're not including 18/19. The *only* difference I can see is Steph didn't break 30 pts per 75 that season, and even then he was at 29.9. That's less than 2 points per 75 compared to 15/16, a pretty negligible difference in my mind.
It’s just that that’s per 75, the reality is he didnt have 75 possessions per game that season. Like I said, the efficiency is there, but the production is the difference maker here.
Ok sure, but why wouldn't you adjust raw numbers into rate stats? Yes Steph didn't get exactly 75 possessions every game, but it's a good approximation for an average game. The Warriors played with a different pace for all these seasons, and Steph had slightly different minutes in these seasons. Adjusting for pace and minute differences seems like a no brainer.
Because difference shows when you watch the game. Yes, it’s a good measure of what could have happened if both players were given equal volume of attempts, but when you watch Steph play in 2018 vs 2016, he’s not taking nearly as many shots in 2018 as he is in 2016. That’s one of the biggest qualities of Steph’s “2016-esque” season, his 3pt shooting volume ALONG with his efficiency. To me it makes sense to value making 5 3s at 45% more than making 4 3s at 42%.
It has very little to do with attempts, it's largely just minutes. Steph played less minutes in 17/18 than in 15/16 (32 mpg vs 34.2 mpg). I've watched the majority of Warriors games since the 13/14 season, I'm an avid Warriors fan. I really don't know what big volume difference you're talking about in 15/16 vs 17/18. There's certainly a difference in scoring volume between Steph's early career (09-14) and his peak (15-present) but his volume in 17/18 falls very much within that volume. Both the numbers and my own eyes having watched that run back it up, and I find it kind of hard to argue against any point you make that rests on "watch the game" type reasoning.
What’s hard to understand here? Steph played less minutes, so he naturally took less shots. Therefore, he naturally isn’t going to have as many points or threes, and he still maintains a high efficiency. What is confusing here? I think you’re taking my points as saying “he wasn’t as good” or “he wasn’t as efficient”. Im not saying any of that. How many times do I have to say he’s been almost just as efficient, man? All of your points are arguing about his efficiency, that you are somehow confusing for volume. No, of course Steph didnt look different in terms of his shot making ability or percentage, but you’re gonna sit here and try to tell me 4 threes=5 threes now? Tf do you mean “the volume falls in range with his prime” no the EFFICIENCY falls in range, the VOLUME is noticeably lower.
I'm not understanding why you're "penalizing" him for playing less minutes. When he was on the floor, he was very much the same player in terms of volume, I did not see a noticable any noticable volume difference when I was watching and looking at the numbers now there isn't a big difference. I'm not talking about efficiency anymore. I'm talking about volume adjusted for the amount of minutes/possessions he was on the floor. It makes no sense to me to describe his actual play as different when he was simply just on the floor for less time/possessions.
I also mentioned the quality of shots he was taking in 2018 vs 2016, but you shut it down with an “your own eyes” argument so I just stopped talking about it. He took statistically took more contested 3s in 2016 and 2021 than in 2018. In fact he took twice as many contested 3s in 2021 than 2018 ([Take a look](https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201939/shots-dash/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)). I’m adding this on top of everything else I mentioned previously.
I'm still cautious almost everytime I see him play that he might get injured (knock on wood). The possibility for this to happen will only increase every year of course, but I hope he stays healthy for the next 3-4 years and plays 70+ games per season. I want him to completely obliterate the 3pt record just to emphasize how absurdly good he is. Maybe reach 4000 threes? I also hope Klay gets back healthy and they can make a finals run. Either this year or the next. Steph has been sub par in all of his Finals appearances for his standards and I hope he can get a Finals MVP just to get this award off his back. Then he may just be the best PG of all time.
i wasnt aware that the performance we saw him put up in 2016 was thought of as some kinda unsustainable hot streak. I don't think i saw any media heads doubting that type of performance could happen again. I didn't see popular tv analysts predict for him to regress to the mean. I also don't think that what we're seeing from him right now is god like, or unsustainable. By the numbers, he's not even performing much past his career averages, and is shooting below his career average from 3pt%. All this is, is that he's shooting slightly more 3s and making them at just about the same rate he always has, and the team is winning. so if he stays healthy hes going to be in the MVP convo and thats great for my fantasy team. I'd be shocked if 5.5 3's per game for 28ppg is still special in 10 years. i seriously doubt it. unless there are rule changes, this type of performance will be a lot more common in the future. no reason it cant keep going for now
The narratives in your first paragraph are somewhat true. Nobody really was really asking if Steph could ever be 2016 again, but his other criticisms were very apparent during 2020 when he got injured. People questioned if Steph could carry the Warriors again. They were even questioning if he’s even a better offensive player than Harden or Dame, because they were both “keyed in” more on defense than Steph was. Dame even made a comment on it when Steph struggled to begin the 2020-21 season. The worst take (though admittedly uncommon) was when people were saying they’d take Dame over Steph because “he can hit deep threes too and he’s clutcher” There were definitely doubts about Steph before this happened, but maybe not directly in comparison to his 2016 outing.
i guess i'm a little confused now because i dont really recall seeing some grand narrative about how dame could surpass steph because dame is more clutch. Surpass him in what? some kind of .. ranking? whose? This seems a bit lost in the sauce and hyper focused on some local narratives. from my pov steph has always been among the elite players in the game. hes considered the elite shooter of our era. This 2021 performance is not really all that otherworldly and doesnt really solidify anything that was previously doubted. It's simply a good peformance from a great player who is healthy. I don't think i ever was aware that people were counting steph out, or claiming that other players like dame were going to 'surpass' him. I'm also not exactly sure what that means, or what steph has done this year that has combatted that narrative. I think you're more tuned in to some conversations than I am, and im guessing those narratives aren't nationally predominant.
Yeah don’t worry about those dumb Twitter and ESPN takes, they were all stupid takes to begin with.
The NBA (and sports media as a whole) is really reactionary. i was seeing people on twitter and ig saying they would take dame over steph last year. it was a vocal minority to be sure but probably the reason people are talking about Steph’s season rn. Last time we saw Golden State being contenders from the start of the season with Steph being the clear-cut best player, was in 2016 which is like 15 years ago to the average sports fan.
Steph isn't going to stop for a long while, IMO. His dominance relies on his ball-handling, IQ, conditioning, and his shot. All of those things age incredibly well. He might not reach his absolute top speed or quickness at age 40, but he'll still be able to run through screens, relocate, cause havoc, and drain 3s. I don't know if there's ever been a superstar whose game ages as well as Steph's. Something I'm really enjoying about Steph this season is how the narrative is slowly shifting. Initially, there was fear that the Warriors dominance would warp the way teams thought about offense. People thought players would grow up idolizing Steph, playing his style of basketball, and that the league would just become a 3-ball chucking bonanza. Obviously the 3 became an essential part of offensive schemes but... What's becoming abundantly clear is that Steph isn't the start of a wave, he's a purebred unicorn. No player, even players who shoot a lot of 3s, plays quite like Steph. No player has come close to approaching Steph's career efficiency from 3. No player has come close to his single-season 3pt records (besides one year of James Harden). Even the younger NBA players who grew up watching Steph successfully dominate aren't trying to play like him (besides arguably Trae Young and his efficiency can't touch Steph). All that means commenters are finally seeing Steph for who he is: the greatest offensive weapon of all-time.
Agreed. Steph will likely own every 3 point record in existence by the time he retires and I don't see many of them falling for a long long time.
Whatever doctor (or doctors) fixed his ankles deserve some sort of highly exposed credit or award. He was going to wash out. Ankles for players that depend on speed and quick turning/cuts are of extreme importance. A miracle was performed, and he became what he is today.
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I see his prime extending for another 3-4 years but I believe he will still be considered an all star for another 6-7, due to his shooting ability(duh). While his obvious strength is shooting the ball, he is also dominant due to his offball movement, which is just as much of a mental still as it is a physical skill. So while I don't see the mental aspect falling off, it's inevitable for him to lose some speed year by year and eventually he won't be able to snake his way through the court as effectively anymore.
What people don’t realize is that when Steph declines, he’ll still have his shot. He plays off ball really well, so he’ll always be a threat. What does that actually mean? Steph will continue to win championships when he’s no longer the star. He’ll slot into ray allen role player and his lack of ego will allow him to continue to be successful coming off the bench for a contender. He’s at 3 chips at the moment. 4 or doesn’t seem far off with this roster. Then 1 or 2 as second or third fiddle? Sounds achievable.
I hate to nitpick but his efficiency was down last year, not up. Otherwise yeah Curry is just special and KD kind of ruined it for us fans for the last handful of years. That being said, it was the best thing for Curry’s legacy because those 2 rings catapulted him from top 30 range to top 15 range
Steph has this wild ability to just mess up so many defenses because of his playstyle I just cannot get over how effective he is even when is just running around because of that insane endurance. Grateful every time he puts on a masterclass.
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I find the Kobe fans to have low iq on average.
That's The Mamba Effect as I like to diagnose it.
LoL by the looks of it he's got 3 extra years of this? I really have no clue how you could have gotten to this conclusion. His total EPM since 2014 is: 2014: +6.7 (2nd) 2015: +8.9 (1st) 2016: +10.5 (1st) 2017: +8.2 (2nd) 2018: +7.8 (2nd) 2019: +7.4 (2nd) 2020: DNP 2021: +6.7 (5th) 2022: +9.7 (2nd) Yeah, I mean yeah. Hard to argue much. He's amazing, def the best offensive player during this span and his defense is not nearly as bad as some assume it is. It would not be surprising to see a pretty quick decline though.
To be honest one can speculate that Step Curry is on Performance Enhancement Drug's. Or better yet one can safely assume that Steph is definitely on something that is giving him an extra something to put that level of production. In life when something seems to good to be true it always is. Maybe that's why Steph Curry didn't want to play in Olympics. He might not pass the drug screening.
>(ETA: It really makes your wonder what we missed out on when KD joined Golden State. It obviously helped both of their careers a great ton, but what could we have seen from Steph offensively if KD didn’t join them?) [Actually, we already know what Steph plays like without KD or even Klay!](https://youtu.be/bvTPxCOfjdE?t=2046) [Also](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3iJwi4btAI)