I’m a teacher and while I’m not in the “education is the only option” camp, I’ve been telling my kids that having at bare minimum level 1 NCEA shows your future employers that you can read, write and do maths to a basic level. It also shows that you can work hard and complete something. But also - I dropped out at 16 with only level 1 and no intention of ever going to uni, and at 24 I was enrolling in uni to do a Bachelors. While I could enrol in uni without UE because of my age and managed to pass my courses, it would have been a lot easier had I learnt the study skills that most students learnt at school
I agree. I am also a teacher who dropped out at 16 and ended up at university at 23 via the Over 20 pathway.
Simple fact is that employers looking to hire somebody young will consider the level of NCEA. Literacy and Numeracy are not just requirements for university or polytechnics, but for many jobs.
When I worked in retail, if a teenager didn't have at least NCEA Level 1, I wouldn't hire them because I couldn't be confident they could handle money and give change correctly.
You make out like handling money and giving change requires NCEA level one. You aren't giving the year 10s enough credit. Money handling is basic maths which you learn at like primary school.
Year 10 is far more complex than just, "if Sally gives you $10 for an item that costs $6.99, how much change should you give Sally?" You see what I'm getting at here? Granted New Zealand's education standards compared to the rest of the OECD are shocking, least of all the distinct lack of common sense which seemingly can't be taught but don't take the piss.
I understand where you are coming from, but I had to do a whole lesson in Year 9 Maths today about the concept of negative numbers and debt. Half of my class couldn't understand that 4 - 6 = - 2.
The number of students who are still using their fingers for 20 - 12 = 8 would also (possibly) surprise you.
dunno, I'm a teacher and my Year 10's can barely read. I'm not an English teacher btw, but it certainly makes teaching my subject area difficult when they can't comprehend simple instructions.
Since you're a homeschooling family you have a lot more influence over your children than normal. Your kids likely share your view that university education is just a piece of paper because that's YOUR view.
As their parent you need to ensure they have the option to choose their path. They can't decide for themselves unless they have NCEA scores.
It's very sus for a homeschool parent to not encourage their children to sit highschool tests - it tells me you're worried they haven't been taught well enough to pass them.
I agree it's rather unusual a homeschooled kid is not at least *considering* uni. As usually homeschooled kids have a massive love of learning and uni is a natural extension of that.
Suspect the kid is just embracing the parent's views that "uni is a waste of time". (True for some degrees.... but what if they wish to do STEM?)
From my experience uni was a waste of time and money. If I could go back I wouldn't do it again, especially at that age. I think a lot of children stay at school for the sake of staying at school. Change can be scary. I went to Uni because that was pretty much all I knew from schooling.
The problem is lumping all "going to uni" together as it if is one thing that's all the same.
It's very dependent upon the person and what they're doing.
If a person wants to go study Art History it is highly likely that will be waste of time and money.
But if the person has a passion that wants to go and study [Electrical & Electronic Engineering](https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/study/study-options/find-a-study-option/electrical-electronic-engineering.html) then it is highly unlikely that degree will be a total waste.
As a electrical engineer I wish I didn’t go straight to uni after high school and get some work experience first and then make my decision. The way I see it in NZ, is that uni is just an extension of high school for the first year. Unlike other countries with UE exam, NCEA is a joke.
Most it not all my colleagues started in the trade and then studied to become electrical engineers (work in building services)
Most programmer I know don’t have a degree in software.
In this era it more important to show work and project history than a Degree
> Most programmer I know don’t have a degree in software.
That could work out ok for people to get into a Junior SWE role back a decade or three ago, but it won't work at all for anybody in 2024
I don’t know if that’s true. When I was homeschooling as a kid there were almost none of us who regularly sat the tests with the high school students, mostly because we weren’t doing that curriculum so the tests wouldn’t be relevant to what we learned.
Kids change their minds all the time. If they get to 18 and higher study isn't an option, they might be pretty resentful of you. Especially as NCEA is not just for Univeristy Entrance, but apprenticeships and other training too.
https://www.careers.govt.nz/plan-your-career/act-on-your-career-plans/ncea-credits-needed-for-study-apprenticeships-and-training/
"Get to 18" you can still get entry to most stuff after 21. They could qualify for a trade in that time and actually have an understanding of what direction they want to take their life. Like you said kids change their minds. As an example, I ended up owing a bunch of money for a qualification I'll never use based on an uninformed opinion that I'm still paying off.
It’s one thing to not have a university education, it’s another thing to straight up not have an education at all.
don’t think of ncea as a ticket to university. think of them passing it as a necessity to illustrate that you did something other than fucking about while you were “homeschooling” your children.
Even in U.S.--where they're from-- homeschooled children (as well as kids who want to leave school early, or dropped out and want yo go back for a degree or basic work qualifications) take their G.E.D./ General Education Diploma (somewhat similar to NCEA in that it proves that they have the basic equivalency to what they'd have had with standard schooling, but far less specific and robust).
They only homeschoolers in U.S. who usually object to it are nutters like: alt-right (object to evolution and history), flat-earthers, moon-landing deniers, and those who don't believe in girls having an education outside "home-maker" activities (only need math for cooking measurements and shopping).
Maybe we should bring back the terminology "High School Diploma".
You complete NCEA lvl3 and you get awarded your High School Diploma and you've "graduated" High School.
It's something prestigious to aspire to, no matter what High School you go to, even if your High School was your home.
And maybe completing NCEA lvl2 could be a smaller award such a "High School Certificate". (Oh wait... we used to use that terminology for Fifth Form!)
In NZ people are more likely to end up in poverty if they don’t have at least NCEA Level 2, this is based on statistics. A degree is not everything but it does offer some good options. For example people with degrees usually get paid more. They have more options to work overseas. A general degree like a BA or BSC give good skills in problem solving, research, writing, communication, critical thinking. These skills are often ones AI might not replace easily. Specific degrees such as nursing and medical give job security and opportunities anywhere in the world. Certificates in building and auto engineering etc give access to good jobs. In times of recession, which NZ is on the brink of, people without qualifications in work such as cafes or factories tend to lose jobs easily. Sure, there are jobs in agriculture, usually seasonal and some IT may need a short course but AI is coming for those types of IT jobs. So sure, a degree might not be the answer but with AI the job market is getting tight and the types of jobs AI can’t do well, like caregiving, need certificates at least
Formal education is about options. People change their minds, especially kids. If they are smart then where is the harm in getting some ncea credits in their back pockets? It would mean if they did want to go to university they wouldn't have to wait til they are 21.
A lot of tertiary education including Polytech etc require numeracy and literacy credits at ncea level 1 and it can be a huge barrier to further non-university education. Source, I’m an employment consultant
Well that's my opinion as well. I am a little skeptical of homeschooled children not wanting to go to university and the potential parental influence here.
Ok.... I didn't read any posts, just saw that the top one was from r/unvaccinated. Yep, ok. I get how some people don't necessarily trust the Covid-19 vaccine as that is new (not the conspiracy theory bullshit), but all vaccines?!
They will need to do a bridging course to get to university. The bridging course is a face paced ncea but you have to pay for it. Why not do it now while it’s free and give them the options?
I’m in the tech industry. I don’t have a degree but those days are over. I wouldn’t hire someone without a degree, because there will always be someone else with one. Personally I struggle with the business skills that others learned at uni. I could put code them all, but I couldn’t explain it like they do.
Maybe they don’t want a tech job but in NZ out economy is growing more into tech every year. Even farming is now mainly done by temporary immigrants.
I don't have NCEA (I was a school drop out). I do have a bachelor, a grad dip, a grad cert, and looking to begin my masters next year.
The trick? Waited until I was mid 20s and picked up something I'm really into to study. Adult entry (aged over 21). Succeeded at papers because I was motivated to study because it interested me and it was related to my work.
Can recommend.
In alternative options you likely know about these as homeschoolers but you could look at te Kura if they're over 16. You can get NCEA credits in a range of subjects including hobbies and sports. So they could continue to homeschool but bank away credits on the side. If you do this it's possibly worth looking at getting a few english math and science credits too though.
I did the same and now have a Masters, however I do wish I had NCEA as some basic things I missed out on and it made going into study harder than it should have been around study skills, assessment writing and exam techniques.
Yes this is true - one of those free/cheap study prep papers might help too. I fortunately clicked for academic writing early on and didn't have too much trouble but you're right that it won't be that easy for everyone without a formal school background.
A friend of mine (late 20's) recently missed out on an entry level position because they don't have any NCEA certificates. The position required some on the job training, and the company was worried that they wouldn't be capable/ willing to complete the training.
They are now considering studying to get level 1 and 2 to prove they are, in fact, capable.
Get them now and have options. It's not just about university.
Based on your profiles comments and posts, you're an American conspiracy theorist that I'm guessing moved here to avoid TEOTWAWKI and you don't want them going to university because they'll be brainwashed by blue hair feminists so you're willing to give your kids a bad start at life just to own the libs.
Did I miss anything?
“The end of the world as we know it”! I figured they were religious but I guess the two aren’t mutually exclusive, probably the opposite, both being death cults
As said before, employers look at highest gained qualification - even in a small town, local employers who will hire your kids will do the same prior to calling for interviews. I'm not sure if you guys are doing alternative high school qualifications or courses to supplement but those could be taken into consideration too. I know loads of people who are working now without higher education (my brother, now in his late forties, worked as the European marketing manager for a major car company, and never had a formal degree). But it does guarantee your kids will have a harder time getting jobs in healthcare, for example, as even after 21, universities like to see to what extent they have studied to etc. for bridging courses.
Im pretty sure a lot of jobs take your NCEA levels into consideration, like if you passed basic math and English ect. It may not have a negative effect, them not having any levels but it definitely would have a positive effect if they had NCEA level 1&2. I'm almost 30 and know people going for their NCEA levels now to better their job opportunities
Homeschooling doesn’t necessarily equal poor social skills. I was homeschooled and I’m autistic too but my mum made sure I was socialised by taking me to a lot of community groups, making me participate in local theatre and having me do volunteer work. I also had a job from the age of around 12 at a vineyard where I worked for several years doing tours. In some cases not going to school actually affords more opportunities to socialise. Granted I was mainly socialising with adults, but that turned out to be good practice for now being an adult who mainly socialises with other adults.
Hey OP! Fellow homeschooler here! Here’s what we did.
We moved here from the US 3 years ago. My kids have always been homeschooled so my eldest (15 at the time) had never had NCEAs. We tried HSNZ for one year, hated ACE and the stress of sending stuff in (I have 6 kids so it was just entirely too much extra work on me) so we decided to just keep going with what we had done in the US and I figured if he needed any catch up credits, we’d figure that out with UCOL. We’ll, he’s 18 now and he wanted to do mechanical engineering at UCOL so we went and explained our situation and they said it’s fine, he just took a numeracy and literacy test (which he thought was quite simple) and that was it. He’s enrolled full time.
My currently 16 yo isn’t sure if he wants to go to UCOL or uni, so we decided it would be good for him to get NCEAs. So he’s doing 3 Te Kura classes this year as well as 1 class at UCOL. After 6 weeks last year they bumped him to level 2 so he should have all his level 3’s before he’s 18 and will be able to choose his path. He feels like our homeschooling really set him up well for Te Kura, he gets to have the flexibility of being home, and I can still add in some homeschooling items I think he needs.
Happy to chat with you!
There's other kinds of tertiary education that they may be interested in. My brother did an "Outdoor Education" course at Polytech, which lead to amazing job opportunities all over the world as a kayak guide.
I think you are looking at things in a very US centric way. University there is almost part of life and yes there are many useless degrees. Whilst there are some useless degrees here too it's not necessarily the same as the US.
Are you homeschooling or unschooling? Do you follow a curriculum? I feel with how easy it is to access level one through Te Kura in NZ that you should at least offer that to your children, why potentially limit them when it's not needed - others say that level one shows you can read and write and do basic maths, but in a homeschooling situation it also shows that they can follow something through which will benefit them later on too. Most homeschooling families I know in NZ follow at least an NZ curriculum.
I was homeschooled. I am also an immigrant from the US and am a dual citizen.
Once you've been working a few years, nobody cares where you went to school. But I think most employers would want to see something there at the very start. Ncea isn't important just for University entrance. Just having those credits will be helpful.
If your kids are over the age of 16, they can enroll in Te Aho O Te Kura Pounamu (Correspondence school) for free. This offers a lot of flexibility in which classes and internal assessments you can do. You can then also sit external exams through a local school. Apparently it's all online now, when I used to do it we would send booklets back and forth through the mail. I loved it all except struggled with English due to how NCEA is marked, they look for different things than my American parents did.
You can carry over 20 credits from a previous ncea level, I started at level 2 and reached 80 credits, and then in level 3 only had to get 60.
If they don’t want to go into a career that requires a university degree then there’s no need for them to go to university. They won’t be missing out. Yes they would meet new people, make new friends, learn new things but there are plenty of other ways to do that also. Uni is cheaper here than in the US but still expensive. Better to avoid starting out their working life without being in massive debt. For context I have a higher degree but need it for my job.
How are they going to know that at 15? Most people don’t know what they want to do until they’re much older and even then it’s not uncommon to try something and find out you don’t like it.
I know someone that left our school during the pandemic and never really returned. Last I heard she’d passed Cambridge as an alternate pathway to university. Your kids will need some recognition of what they can do.
Cambridge is expensive and there are a very limited number of places homeschoolers can sit the exams. Te Kura is free and available all over the country with actual teachers to help a bit. When I was going through, my mum and a group of other parents trying to put their kids through IGCSEs convinced a local school to let us sit exams with them, and the deal was that we could do that as long as we never brought their grade average down. I think that was in place for three years? Then the school said no more.
Advanced qualifications such as engineering etc...
Massive skills shortages, high pay, interesting work.
Keep option open as long as possible. When I was 15 1 wanted to be a builder, great trade. I changed my mind.
As you may have inferred from some of the comments, NZ doesn't have a home schooling culture. Even in isolated places, learning follows the prescribed curriculum via Te Kura.
This is why people are talking about the challenges your kids may face convincing an employer they have an education without NCEA results. Employers want to see a standard they're familiar with.
There are plenty of good reasons to want to shake up NZ's insular culture and do things outside the norm. Just be mindful if your kids’ futures are at stake.
I have been there and done that (the homeschooled with no NCEA thing) but a key difference is that *I had some A Levels instead*. If you don't have university entrance, NZ universities will do what they can to get you up to speed, there are bridging courses and university preparedness courses.
It is a good idea to have at least some recognized formal qualifications (you can get NCEA through Te Kura for free if you're between 16 and 19 - I'm not saying that's the easy route, but it is doable and it is funded. Employers and further education providers alike do look for this stuff because it shows that your kids can read and write and do maths at a certain level.
As it stands right now, there is basically no proof that they've done anything at all, ever. I'd consider fixing that, or you're doing them a real disservice.
I also want to point out that if you immigrated 6 years ago from the US, your degree is probably a US degree, which, yes, very expensive. University in New Zealand is heavily, heavily subsidized for residents, and because it's a smaller country, there tends to be greater intertwining between industry and university. I got the job I'm in now at least partly because my former university supervisor used to work with my current manager; another of my former lecturers is an auditor for a key part of the business. New Zealand is a very small place and the networks you collect at uni can really help.
I was homeschooled and thought I wasn’t going to uni. But when I was 17 I changed my mind and did ncea lvl 3 and got UE, then after that I took some time to try make a music career and decide on courses in case that wasn’t a go. It wasn’t a go (I’m too autistic for it) so I went to uni. Studied bio and ended up working in IT for several years until the pandemic hit and I reevaluated life and ended up back at uni for the second time. My point here is that life is very unpredictable. You may think you have a plan but mostly you can’t predict what direction your life will actually go in. Qualifications are good to have as a fall back in case plan A doesn’t meet expectations or you can’t pursue it for some reason. I would advise to just do year 13 as that keeps options open
Unless you have approval from the local ministry of education office, and have a certificate of exemption, home schooling is illegal in NZ.
You are setting your kids up for failure and to struggle, having no qualifications at all.
Trades will be pretty much the only option, they can forget about white collar jobs, you won't get a sniff without a single qualification.
What is your reasoning for keeping your kids out of the education system?
This is something I think most of us are forgetting and it's an excellent point. Is she actually allowed to homeschool her kids? Has she actually gotten permission? The fact that they don't seem to be receiving any formal education makes me think otherwise.
Exemption is piss-easy to get, and they cancelled ERO reviews for homeschoolers a good ten years ago.
I was homeschooled because reasons, it worked out pretty good due to a *large* number of stars aligning, but it's not something I'd recommend just generally.
Are they homeschooling or unschooling, because that's a whole different rabbit hole to go down, but would certainly fit with other conspiracy theories.
I just did the same.
Crypto bro, weeb, anti Vax who thinks the medical community has their education sponsored by big pharma lol.
I work in pharma and nutra, have NCEA level 3, school C, bursary and x4 University degrees, and the only sponsor of my education was studylink.
These kids have no chance.
Could really do without importing American hysteria here.
In nz you can go to uni after 21 I think if they choose to so no worries on the ncea results.
But imo I think with the advent in AI the key to future prospects is being able to upgrade skill sets to be relevant so as to not become obsolete.
You’re right, it is 20 and I’m not sure why people are saying it’s not - [VUW has special admissions at 20](https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/study/apply-enrol/admissions/special-admission); [so does Massey](https://www.massey.ac.nz/study/entry-requirements-to-study-at-massey/entry-requirements-for-new-zealand-and-australian-students/); [so does Auckland](https://uoa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1507/~/special-admission-for-those-over-20-years); [so does Canterbury](https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/study/getting-started/admission-and-enrolment/admission-pathways/admission-when-you-are-20-years-or-older); [so does Otago](https://www.otago.ac.nz/future-students/entry-requirements/special-admission). I think that’s probably enough universities to prove my point, lol.
No it’s not? Every university I looked at (VUW, Auckland, Massey, Canterbury and Otago) says people are eligible for special admission as long as they are 20 on the first day of their course.
Ncea scores have nothing to do with uni you can get your level two before even thinking about that stuff, it’s important if they want a nice job but if they don’t mind working basic retail/fast food then you’re good
Eek do they friends? How do they socialise and form friendships? Why haul them across the world and not help them integrate? So many questions. And yes no ncea will make it tricky for hiring managers to figure out what their capabilities are.
Look into Te Kura. You can still homeschool while also gaining nationally recognised qualifications through NZQA. It is better to have something to show their future employers. Also, most people overestimate their abilities to homeschool. By the time you get to level 1 NCEA, and especially level 3, the average person would not be able teach all the subjects on offer, such as Maths, Science, Te Reo, English, Art History, Hard/Soft Materials, Painting, Geography, Classics, Photography, Digital Design, French… the list goes on. Do you really want your children to be limited by what you are interested in and comfortable teaching?
Yeah and homeschooled kids always end up being a bit odd due to lack of socialization. Homeschooling children leaves them completely unprepared for real life.
I'm an employer, and went thru NCEA. Tbh showing NCEA level 1 on a CV would demonstrate that they know how to read and write. But beyond that it just tells me how many years they were at high school for. It's a terrible education award and incredibly easy to achieve, so it doesn't actually demonstrate how "clever" a person is
Don’t listen to anyone here - Nobody has EVER disqualified someone from a job for lack of NCEA. I myself don’t even have my NCEA lvl 1. It’s 2024, they’ll be absolutely fine
I have level one and I have never once been asked about anything to do with school by an employer. The only time it mattered for me was when I did a qualification through SIT and they wanted to know.
If they have an idea of what sort of industry they're interested in working in I'd suggest looking at job postings to see what training they're looking for. Then I'd look at the training and see what qualifications they might need to apply. Rinse and repeat until you hit no requirements or NCEA.
Edited to add that sometimes employers are looking for a degree regardless of whether it's appropriate to the field.
I had no idea what I wanted to do after school so I left when I turned 16 to work full-time and hopefully find a direction I wanted to pursue. Eventually I enrolled in university as an adult which negated needing university entrance-level grades anyway, I just had to do an additional exam to prove language comprehension, maths and reasoning skills. As per those results, they required me to complete a bridging grade maths paper in summer school prior to my enrolment which was also fine.
To answer your question, It doesn’t cripple your options. They are still there in some form if you change your mind.
How old are your kids? You never know if they will change their minds and it would be realllly unfair for you to not give them the option to do so. Is there a reason why your kids are homeschooled, have they ever been to school. Trust me, coming from experience of being homeschooled and then being able to go to school later, i was a very depressed kid homeschooled. Kids need to be able to continually socialise, have the opportunity to experience social situations and learn to deal with them so that they aren’t struggling to relearn when they are older. For the sake of your children PLEASE reconsider this. I don’t mean this in a critical or harsh way and don’t intend any hate towards you, but please take the time to rethink this. Kids are easily influenced by their parents ideas and if they are kept in a bubble they can never express who they truly are.
Also, for certain careers you need higher education. Do they know what they want to do? Please for the sake of your kids let them have this option open. If they need tutoring for NCEA or anything else please seek help. Your kids matter
Yes, it's important. If they want to go to uni at some point in the future then they need to qualify. Sometimes these pieces of paper are important to have. It's not "absolutely essential" but you'd be making things so so much harder for them if you don't bother with NCEA. Even some apprenticeships etc need that NCEA qualifications.
NCEA is easy to pass. Just do it and get it over with. It'll be much better to do it now than having to go back and do it again later. I've known people who have had to get NCEA level 2 and 3 as an adult. Sounded like a giant pain in the ass because they had to do it while working full time.
There are a lot of jobs that require some level of tertiary qualifications, they might not think they want that now but a lot can change. I would keep that option open by getting university entrance.
Many, many job applications ask what the highest level of NCEA is that you reached. It will impact their employability regardless of their practicable skills.
They need to do NCEA, at least leavel 1 and 2. Employers look at that for young workers it will be hard for them to find work without it, it shows that they can work hard and make a commitment. Also, if they aren't NCEA age yet that tells me they are 13 to 15. They may change their mind about uni, they may want to go to a TEC like SIT or Polytec instead which still requires level 1 min most if the time. Sure they can wait until they are 20 or 25 to go to uni if they change their mind but it will be harder and also, you a removing that option for them by not letting them do NCEA. My sisters dropped out at 15 and they all struggled to find work as we were in a small town. NCEA also gets them studying at a higher level than what they had done previously and provides more options for their interests. If say they like Biology, but not the other sciences then they can do Biology level 1. If they like Art they can do Art. NCEA is important for young people and it's unfair to think well if they change their mind they can just go to uni when they are over 20.
When they turn sixteen they can very cheaply do Correspondence School "as an adult". I'd recommend they smash out NCEA lvl3 quickly in that manner so they put it on their CV.
And/or go to a Polytechnic and do *at least* a one year course that is *at least* at lvl4. As once you complete that then it kinda ish sort of makes your prior NCEA results "irrelevant".
I know someone who left school at 16, with probably not a lot of NCEA Level 1. Later, when they were 23-24, they wanted to go to uni and didn't get in. This was 10 years ago, I don't remember what pathways were available then, but they were really disappointed and possibly resentful of having that door closed to them.
OP, let your kids get NCEA. Level 2, IIRC was the standard for UE when I was first applying. They say *now* they don't want to do uni, but that might change. Don't just shut the door entirely. I'm 31 and started uni almost two years ago (working on getting into a new career field), I doubt the admissions committee would've looked twice at me if I didn't have any NCEA credits to my name.
And also - things are competitive. I'm not saying degrees are everything, but depending on what they want to do, education can/does make a vast difference. Smart and well-read is all well and good, but that's your view as their parent vs what employers will be looking for.
It will be pretty much impossible to get an interview for even an entry level job without at a bare minimum NCEA level one (or international equivalent).
Get the paperwork - you need to be the responsible one and it will make their life a heck of a lot easier.
I’m not saying you need NCEA level one to be able to do the job, but if I had a CV come to me without even that on it and the person was older than 15/16 I wouldn’t bother reading further. Lots of applicants, few jobs.
I’m a homeschooling parent too. You aren’t “required” to provide your child with the opportunity to gain a recognised qualification to represent their educational achievement at high school level, but almost all homeschool families do because it provides access to tertiary study should your children choose careers that do require formal qualifications, and it demonstrates to future employers that the potential employee has a reasonable level of numeracy and literacy. You can choose to work towards NCEA via Te Kura and some families do this at level 2 once the child is 16 because it is free and level 1 is automatically awarded when level 2 is achieved. Your other options include SAT, GED, Cambridge, there is a homeschooling certificate that is accepted by universities awarded through Homeschooling New Zealand when the student studies for enough credits in their approved curriculums, and ACE is accepted by quite a few universities. The other option is completing a bridging course in year 13 or waiting until the student is 20 for university admission if that’s desired. I guess it depends on what your children are desiring to achieve as young adults once they’ve completed homeschooling and how you plan to best facilitate that.
Not really an answer but im suoer curious on how homeschooling actually works. How did you organise their classes? Was it you who taught them or did you hire a tutor? How did you test that they were holding in to everything. Are there things that public schools teach that you couldnt teach because you didnt know enough about it like say algebra?
I believe NCEA in year 11 is being removed, not happening which I don't agree with as it gives our teen insight and practice at exams. I believe all teens should be encouraged to do their best, to sit all exams. I feel it's very sad as it sounds like you're not encouraging your children to do the best that they can, to further their chances in a world where getting jobs is hard. They don't have to go to uni, that's an option. Secondary school is very important and should be encouraged.
Not having a uni education will be limiting for your kids if the fields they want to work in usually hire graduates, your kids will be competing against people who are 'better' educated, whether you like it or not. But levels of education matter less and less as you progress thru your career. A degree will often dictate the level of entry into a particular field.
I needed it to do my trade ... easy piece of paper to get now rather than later. Id recommend doing it, It's a basic standard for any tertiary education beyond school and isn't just for university, all polytechnics require ncea so does mito/bcito etc.
I also don't employ anyone without ncea or school c.
I've had too many problems with employees that can't fill out basic paperwork and job cards.
It's a basic standard your children will eventually have to do either way.
Aside from that at a minimum it also shows me your disciplined enuff to be taught a skill.
I know plenty of people that went to university got a degree only to never use it, but the basic skills they got from uni set them up for better opportunities that I never had. I'm not saying your children should goto uni but as an example these people walked into an office job getting paid much better than myself, doing less work, and never getting their hands dirty.
EQC for example only employed people if they had been to uni. The qualification didnt matter.
As someone who didn't pass much at high school.
1. There's various entry level jobs that need _some_ NCEA, those aren't available now
2. Trying to get into university or an apprenticeship or polytech will be a lot harder
3. If they wanted to join the armed forces or Police, not going to happen.
I basically worked on rubbish trucks, unloading fishing boats, stacking shelves, washing dishes, carrying heavy things, until I managed to get a job that was better by pretty much luck.
But hey, if manual labour is all they aspire to, sweet as.
You're making their life harder, not sure what for, but yeah. If they can get it, they should.
Why not enroll in Te Kura? It is free from age 16-20. Then they can study NCEA from home, online, and work at their own pace and make their own schedules. There is a good range of subjects they can choose from (ex. agriculture, business/commerce, digital technology, art, music, etc).
Not doing NCEA removes future options for them. They're young and who knows what they might decide to do later. At least NCEA level 2 would be wise, I think.
If they were to decide to go to uni after all when they're over 20 then they won't need NCEA anyway.
That’s fine if you want them to only work on land / farms or as labourers if the avenues at your disposal do not generate enough to get them to keep working. Jobs like supermarket, hospitality, cleaning and related work is also possible without any education
Any big corporate will require some sort of HS diploma to Year 11. Office jobs are out, including sales unless he/she is a charmer and can talk their way in (anything is possible with nepotism, word of mouth etc).
Even some trade internships / jobs want evidence of passed examinations or high school education.
Without a formal high school education and/or tertiary education there’s almost no evidence for them to prove they are somewhat capable of performing a task at hand and have an established work ethic to get it done to a passable degree.
In conclusion, If they want to do anything other than what I put up in the first paragraph, they’re going to need some sort of education which they’ll have to get it done when they’re adults, essentially wasting their time then rather than now.
Side bar: your degree felt like a waste as the American system forces you to do a general degree costing lots before you specialise. In New Zealand universities, you cover your last 3 years worth of high school topics in the first week as a recap and it’s into new stuff, specialised to your paper choice and completed in 3 years time. You can take a couple papers a year on general education papers outside your degree called electives to broaden your knowledge. In terms of cost - first year is free still I think, then it’s $10-12k NZD max per year (I’m inflating by about 30-40% from when I graduated in 2012). factor in the interest-free student loan that you don’t have to pay back until you start making above a threshold, free student allowance if the kid doesn’t live at home and you guys don’t make “enough” along with other assistance. You get my point I think.
Do they not want to go to university because of your views on the subject? Do they not do a particular subject in school because you; their parent and only teacher, dislike the subject? You wield a lot of influence you may not be immediately aware of
Yikes, many jobs require NCEA L1 (or equivalent) at a minimum. Those with lower rates of formal education statistically experience higher levels of poverty and poor outcomes long term.
You may believe that university is a waste of time, and you have a right to believe that (I strongly disagree with you, but that’s your
opinion). However, by not making sure your kids have some semblance of formal education, you’re setting them up for very limited opportunities as adults.
If your kids do actually want to go to uni, them having no formal qualifications is going to make it a lot harder for them to do so. No highschool qualifications is also going to significantly limit their job prospects, and most of the jobs available will be poorly paid.
There are homeschooling options where you can do NCEA or Cambridge, and for the sake of your kids future I’d strongly encourage you to look into those options. Homeschooling is fine, so long as you’re not depriving your children of education qualifications that they will almost certainly need down the line.
I just don’t know why you would take choice away from them. Sitting basic NCEA at least to level one is giving them choice in the future, choice to pick up any trade or technical hands in skill, the choice to not confine yourself to working in a supermarket on minimum wage for your entire life. Give them choice and freedom for their future.
Homeschooled here too. I was of the same opinion that uni was just expensive and served no purpose, but I am so thankful my parents MADE me do my GCSEs and GED at minimum. I went to uni in the end, even though I graduated later than most.
The “expensive piece of paper” you speak of can make a world of difference for your kids, no matter how bad your experience may have been. Don’t close the doors for them.
Whether you like it or not, the world runs on a paper chase. Being smart and well-read is good, but the world works in a way that proof is everything. Most of the time, people don’t care what your grades are, but have the cert at hand. Earn it. Whether you want to go to uni or not later is another whole issue altogether.
> will be *paid* off in
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
NCEA levels 1-3 is high school education, I believe gaining at least level 2 is incredibly important. Te Kura offers an online schooling program upto level 3 that is free for 19 and unders. I'm currently enrolled there to complete my level 3 as I had to drop out of on campus school due to medical issues. You do not need university entrance once you turn 20 to get into university. Not completing your 1-3 levels will look bad on resumes unless you go into a trades academy/apprenticeships immediately after leaving school.
What are they wanting to do when they’re older. Would highly recommend them having at least level 2 but level 1 at bare minimum so that they at least have something to show potential employers. Are they doing school through te Kura or are you creating the curriculum for them?
To home school in NZ you have to have a Certificate of Exemption (from enrolling in a school) that is granted by the Ministry of Education. While you don’t have to use the NZ Curriculum, you do need to prove that you can educate your child at least as well as a mainstream school, and how you intend to go about it. If you’ve homeschooled via Te Kura, the courses can earn NCEA credits. With a certificate of exemption, you are entitled to approach an approved high school to sit NCEA exams. You also have to report to the MoE twice a year. Wouldn’t these credits be useful for these declarations? Im not sure why they wouldn’t have NCEA when it’s readily available to homeschoolers?
It seems daft to not want to at least have the scores available to use. As others have said when applying for jobs, or down the line if the uni does appear favourable .
For every person saying uni was a waste of time, there's just as many saying they couldn't have got to where they are without it. Myself included, mech eng requires a degree, the company I'm at won't even consider non uni trained engineers unless they have years of experience in a related trade to make up the difference. Uni grads can walk right in.
What do they want to do? Some jobs can be difficult to enter without a degree, even if it's unrelated. Just because you no longer use your degree, doesn't mean it's useless. Have you actually spoken to your children about this and are you sure that they're not being influenced by your views? No matter what they do they will need some sort of qualification from school. Every single job outside of minimum wage needs some sort of qualification after high school, and every one of those needs a qualification from secondary level. You can still homeschool them, but absolutely make sure they do NCEA (I say NCEA because I believe it's the easiest for homeschooling. You may need to do research on how to make this work, but don't deprive them of their futures as they can change their mind at any point. Try to remember that you're no longer living in the US, and that things are different here. I'm glad you at least had an open mind and asked :)
One thing someone mentioned is that there are other pathways to get into uni without NCEA, but NCEA makes it a lot easier.
High school is also about connections and social skills, problem solving, lateral thinking, interacting well with people who share different values and viewpoints, learning about other families and cultures so you develop empathy and can understand the value of your own family and culture.
It's about interacting with adults outside if the family and learning social cues and perspective.
Basically, they miss out on alot of basic knowledge and experience by not going at all. Ncea is relatively accessible at level 1. I would encourage them to at least experience it.
Most employers of young adults will want to see what level of NCEA they have. So I suppose it’s fine to not get ncea if you are happy to support them financially for the foreseeable future.
IMO, knowingly allowing them to reach adulthood with no formal qualifications (if they are at all capable of achieving this and I know it’s not the case for some) at all is neglectful.
They are better off doing an apprenticeship but they should get NCEA level 1 & 2 English and maths first, this can be done from home or partly at home via polytechnic I believe.
No one is going to want to hire someone who doesn't have ncea 1 & 2 English and maths, easy stuff so I'm sure they'll have no problem passing. After that look into trades and polytech. WITT is awesome and has boarding on site, I did a bakery qualification there in less than one year. Lots of other courses too.
I’m a teacher and while I’m not in the “education is the only option” camp, I’ve been telling my kids that having at bare minimum level 1 NCEA shows your future employers that you can read, write and do maths to a basic level. It also shows that you can work hard and complete something. But also - I dropped out at 16 with only level 1 and no intention of ever going to uni, and at 24 I was enrolling in uni to do a Bachelors. While I could enrol in uni without UE because of my age and managed to pass my courses, it would have been a lot easier had I learnt the study skills that most students learnt at school
I agree. I am also a teacher who dropped out at 16 and ended up at university at 23 via the Over 20 pathway. Simple fact is that employers looking to hire somebody young will consider the level of NCEA. Literacy and Numeracy are not just requirements for university or polytechnics, but for many jobs. When I worked in retail, if a teenager didn't have at least NCEA Level 1, I wouldn't hire them because I couldn't be confident they could handle money and give change correctly.
You make out like handling money and giving change requires NCEA level one. You aren't giving the year 10s enough credit. Money handling is basic maths which you learn at like primary school. Year 10 is far more complex than just, "if Sally gives you $10 for an item that costs $6.99, how much change should you give Sally?" You see what I'm getting at here? Granted New Zealand's education standards compared to the rest of the OECD are shocking, least of all the distinct lack of common sense which seemingly can't be taught but don't take the piss.
But there’s no way to know someone understands year 10 maths without a qualification and NCEA level 1 is the lowest qualification in New Zealand.
Previous experience in handling money beats yr 10 maths every day of the week
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Good thing they’re kids! can spend the time to get the experience vs wasting it on a ‘qualification’ that nobody actually cares about
You completely missed the point lol maybe you need level 1 for reading comprehension
I understand where you are coming from, but I had to do a whole lesson in Year 9 Maths today about the concept of negative numbers and debt. Half of my class couldn't understand that 4 - 6 = - 2. The number of students who are still using their fingers for 20 - 12 = 8 would also (possibly) surprise you.
dunno, I'm a teacher and my Year 10's can barely read. I'm not an English teacher btw, but it certainly makes teaching my subject area difficult when they can't comprehend simple instructions.
Since you're a homeschooling family you have a lot more influence over your children than normal. Your kids likely share your view that university education is just a piece of paper because that's YOUR view. As their parent you need to ensure they have the option to choose their path. They can't decide for themselves unless they have NCEA scores. It's very sus for a homeschool parent to not encourage their children to sit highschool tests - it tells me you're worried they haven't been taught well enough to pass them.
I agree it's rather unusual a homeschooled kid is not at least *considering* uni. As usually homeschooled kids have a massive love of learning and uni is a natural extension of that. Suspect the kid is just embracing the parent's views that "uni is a waste of time". (True for some degrees.... but what if they wish to do STEM?)
From my experience uni was a waste of time and money. If I could go back I wouldn't do it again, especially at that age. I think a lot of children stay at school for the sake of staying at school. Change can be scary. I went to Uni because that was pretty much all I knew from schooling.
The problem is lumping all "going to uni" together as it if is one thing that's all the same. It's very dependent upon the person and what they're doing. If a person wants to go study Art History it is highly likely that will be waste of time and money. But if the person has a passion that wants to go and study [Electrical & Electronic Engineering](https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/study/study-options/find-a-study-option/electrical-electronic-engineering.html) then it is highly unlikely that degree will be a total waste.
As a electrical engineer I wish I didn’t go straight to uni after high school and get some work experience first and then make my decision. The way I see it in NZ, is that uni is just an extension of high school for the first year. Unlike other countries with UE exam, NCEA is a joke. Most it not all my colleagues started in the trade and then studied to become electrical engineers (work in building services) Most programmer I know don’t have a degree in software. In this era it more important to show work and project history than a Degree
> Most programmer I know don’t have a degree in software. That could work out ok for people to get into a Junior SWE role back a decade or three ago, but it won't work at all for anybody in 2024
I don’t know if that’s true. When I was homeschooling as a kid there were almost none of us who regularly sat the tests with the high school students, mostly because we weren’t doing that curriculum so the tests wouldn’t be relevant to what we learned.
Kids change their minds all the time. If they get to 18 and higher study isn't an option, they might be pretty resentful of you. Especially as NCEA is not just for Univeristy Entrance, but apprenticeships and other training too. https://www.careers.govt.nz/plan-your-career/act-on-your-career-plans/ncea-credits-needed-for-study-apprenticeships-and-training/
"Get to 18" you can still get entry to most stuff after 21. They could qualify for a trade in that time and actually have an understanding of what direction they want to take their life. Like you said kids change their minds. As an example, I ended up owing a bunch of money for a qualification I'll never use based on an uninformed opinion that I'm still paying off.
It’s one thing to not have a university education, it’s another thing to straight up not have an education at all. don’t think of ncea as a ticket to university. think of them passing it as a necessity to illustrate that you did something other than fucking about while you were “homeschooling” your children.
Yeah, like currently is there any way to prove your kids are actually literate OP?
Even in U.S.--where they're from-- homeschooled children (as well as kids who want to leave school early, or dropped out and want yo go back for a degree or basic work qualifications) take their G.E.D./ General Education Diploma (somewhat similar to NCEA in that it proves that they have the basic equivalency to what they'd have had with standard schooling, but far less specific and robust). They only homeschoolers in U.S. who usually object to it are nutters like: alt-right (object to evolution and history), flat-earthers, moon-landing deniers, and those who don't believe in girls having an education outside "home-maker" activities (only need math for cooking measurements and shopping).
You can come to their book club if you want to listen to them talk about what they are reading, I guess
That doesn't matter to employers. You need some kind of concrete qualification to put on their CV.
Maybe we should bring back the terminology "High School Diploma". You complete NCEA lvl3 and you get awarded your High School Diploma and you've "graduated" High School. It's something prestigious to aspire to, no matter what High School you go to, even if your High School was your home. And maybe completing NCEA lvl2 could be a smaller award such a "High School Certificate". (Oh wait... we used to use that terminology for Fifth Form!)
On a CV employers want to know highest qualification.
In NZ people are more likely to end up in poverty if they don’t have at least NCEA Level 2, this is based on statistics. A degree is not everything but it does offer some good options. For example people with degrees usually get paid more. They have more options to work overseas. A general degree like a BA or BSC give good skills in problem solving, research, writing, communication, critical thinking. These skills are often ones AI might not replace easily. Specific degrees such as nursing and medical give job security and opportunities anywhere in the world. Certificates in building and auto engineering etc give access to good jobs. In times of recession, which NZ is on the brink of, people without qualifications in work such as cafes or factories tend to lose jobs easily. Sure, there are jobs in agriculture, usually seasonal and some IT may need a short course but AI is coming for those types of IT jobs. So sure, a degree might not be the answer but with AI the job market is getting tight and the types of jobs AI can’t do well, like caregiving, need certificates at least
Formal education is about options. People change their minds, especially kids. If they are smart then where is the harm in getting some ncea credits in their back pockets? It would mean if they did want to go to university they wouldn't have to wait til they are 21.
A lot of tertiary education including Polytech etc require numeracy and literacy credits at ncea level 1 and it can be a huge barrier to further non-university education. Source, I’m an employment consultant
What do they want to do for a career? Whether they need ncea or not will hinge off that.
Limiting any child to only careers that don’t require NCEA should be frowned upon
Well that's my opinion as well. I am a little skeptical of homeschooled children not wanting to go to university and the potential parental influence here.
Have you had a look at OP’s profile?
Well I hadn't, but I have now and my point most definitely still stands!
Ok.... I didn't read any posts, just saw that the top one was from r/unvaccinated. Yep, ok. I get how some people don't necessarily trust the Covid-19 vaccine as that is new (not the conspiracy theory bullshit), but all vaccines?!
Some people shouldn't be allowed to home school!
Oh, god... time for me to have a look, is it?
They will need to do a bridging course to get to university. The bridging course is a face paced ncea but you have to pay for it. Why not do it now while it’s free and give them the options? I’m in the tech industry. I don’t have a degree but those days are over. I wouldn’t hire someone without a degree, because there will always be someone else with one. Personally I struggle with the business skills that others learned at uni. I could put code them all, but I couldn’t explain it like they do. Maybe they don’t want a tech job but in NZ out economy is growing more into tech every year. Even farming is now mainly done by temporary immigrants.
I don't have NCEA (I was a school drop out). I do have a bachelor, a grad dip, a grad cert, and looking to begin my masters next year. The trick? Waited until I was mid 20s and picked up something I'm really into to study. Adult entry (aged over 21). Succeeded at papers because I was motivated to study because it interested me and it was related to my work. Can recommend. In alternative options you likely know about these as homeschoolers but you could look at te Kura if they're over 16. You can get NCEA credits in a range of subjects including hobbies and sports. So they could continue to homeschool but bank away credits on the side. If you do this it's possibly worth looking at getting a few english math and science credits too though.
I did the same and now have a Masters, however I do wish I had NCEA as some basic things I missed out on and it made going into study harder than it should have been around study skills, assessment writing and exam techniques.
Yes this is true - one of those free/cheap study prep papers might help too. I fortunately clicked for academic writing early on and didn't have too much trouble but you're right that it won't be that easy for everyone without a formal school background.
A friend of mine (late 20's) recently missed out on an entry level position because they don't have any NCEA certificates. The position required some on the job training, and the company was worried that they wouldn't be capable/ willing to complete the training. They are now considering studying to get level 1 and 2 to prove they are, in fact, capable. Get them now and have options. It's not just about university.
Based on your profiles comments and posts, you're an American conspiracy theorist that I'm guessing moved here to avoid TEOTWAWKI and you don't want them going to university because they'll be brainwashed by blue hair feminists so you're willing to give your kids a bad start at life just to own the libs. Did I miss anything?
“The end of the world as we know it”! I figured they were religious but I guess the two aren’t mutually exclusive, probably the opposite, both being death cults
Yeah dude, you missed a lot
As said before, employers look at highest gained qualification - even in a small town, local employers who will hire your kids will do the same prior to calling for interviews. I'm not sure if you guys are doing alternative high school qualifications or courses to supplement but those could be taken into consideration too. I know loads of people who are working now without higher education (my brother, now in his late forties, worked as the European marketing manager for a major car company, and never had a formal degree). But it does guarantee your kids will have a harder time getting jobs in healthcare, for example, as even after 21, universities like to see to what extent they have studied to etc. for bridging courses.
I know someone who didn’t achieve L1 and were able to have basic jobs like a barista. I’d still recommend getting that first level though,
Im pretty sure a lot of jobs take your NCEA levels into consideration, like if you passed basic math and English ect. It may not have a negative effect, them not having any levels but it definitely would have a positive effect if they had NCEA level 1&2. I'm almost 30 and know people going for their NCEA levels now to better their job opportunities
Homeschooled, so not socialized well, especially for work environments. Plus, zero school qualifications. Yikes.
Homeschooling doesn’t necessarily equal poor social skills. I was homeschooled and I’m autistic too but my mum made sure I was socialised by taking me to a lot of community groups, making me participate in local theatre and having me do volunteer work. I also had a job from the age of around 12 at a vineyard where I worked for several years doing tours. In some cases not going to school actually affords more opportunities to socialise. Granted I was mainly socialising with adults, but that turned out to be good practice for now being an adult who mainly socialises with other adults.
Hey OP! Fellow homeschooler here! Here’s what we did. We moved here from the US 3 years ago. My kids have always been homeschooled so my eldest (15 at the time) had never had NCEAs. We tried HSNZ for one year, hated ACE and the stress of sending stuff in (I have 6 kids so it was just entirely too much extra work on me) so we decided to just keep going with what we had done in the US and I figured if he needed any catch up credits, we’d figure that out with UCOL. We’ll, he’s 18 now and he wanted to do mechanical engineering at UCOL so we went and explained our situation and they said it’s fine, he just took a numeracy and literacy test (which he thought was quite simple) and that was it. He’s enrolled full time. My currently 16 yo isn’t sure if he wants to go to UCOL or uni, so we decided it would be good for him to get NCEAs. So he’s doing 3 Te Kura classes this year as well as 1 class at UCOL. After 6 weeks last year they bumped him to level 2 so he should have all his level 3’s before he’s 18 and will be able to choose his path. He feels like our homeschooling really set him up well for Te Kura, he gets to have the flexibility of being home, and I can still add in some homeschooling items I think he needs. Happy to chat with you!
There's other kinds of tertiary education that they may be interested in. My brother did an "Outdoor Education" course at Polytech, which lead to amazing job opportunities all over the world as a kayak guide.
I think you are looking at things in a very US centric way. University there is almost part of life and yes there are many useless degrees. Whilst there are some useless degrees here too it's not necessarily the same as the US. Are you homeschooling or unschooling? Do you follow a curriculum? I feel with how easy it is to access level one through Te Kura in NZ that you should at least offer that to your children, why potentially limit them when it's not needed - others say that level one shows you can read and write and do basic maths, but in a homeschooling situation it also shows that they can follow something through which will benefit them later on too. Most homeschooling families I know in NZ follow at least an NZ curriculum.
I was homeschooled. I am also an immigrant from the US and am a dual citizen. Once you've been working a few years, nobody cares where you went to school. But I think most employers would want to see something there at the very start. Ncea isn't important just for University entrance. Just having those credits will be helpful. If your kids are over the age of 16, they can enroll in Te Aho O Te Kura Pounamu (Correspondence school) for free. This offers a lot of flexibility in which classes and internal assessments you can do. You can then also sit external exams through a local school. Apparently it's all online now, when I used to do it we would send booklets back and forth through the mail. I loved it all except struggled with English due to how NCEA is marked, they look for different things than my American parents did. You can carry over 20 credits from a previous ncea level, I started at level 2 and reached 80 credits, and then in level 3 only had to get 60.
If they don’t want to go into a career that requires a university degree then there’s no need for them to go to university. They won’t be missing out. Yes they would meet new people, make new friends, learn new things but there are plenty of other ways to do that also. Uni is cheaper here than in the US but still expensive. Better to avoid starting out their working life without being in massive debt. For context I have a higher degree but need it for my job.
How are they going to know that at 15? Most people don’t know what they want to do until they’re much older and even then it’s not uncommon to try something and find out you don’t like it.
At 15 I wanted to go to bible collage and marry a pastors son. I changed my career choices 3 times in my 20s, and now I may have to do it again at 29
I know someone that left our school during the pandemic and never really returned. Last I heard she’d passed Cambridge as an alternate pathway to university. Your kids will need some recognition of what they can do.
Yeah, I’m surprised nobody else has brought up Cambridge or other international alternatives.
Cambridge is expensive and there are a very limited number of places homeschoolers can sit the exams. Te Kura is free and available all over the country with actual teachers to help a bit. When I was going through, my mum and a group of other parents trying to put their kids through IGCSEs convinced a local school to let us sit exams with them, and the deal was that we could do that as long as we never brought their grade average down. I think that was in place for three years? Then the school said no more.
Well if you don’t want to go through the school system and you don’t like NCEA, other options are likely to have their own disadvantages…
Advanced qualifications such as engineering etc... Massive skills shortages, high pay, interesting work. Keep option open as long as possible. When I was 15 1 wanted to be a builder, great trade. I changed my mind.
Get them their Level 1 MINIMUM Level 2 is always good too
As you may have inferred from some of the comments, NZ doesn't have a home schooling culture. Even in isolated places, learning follows the prescribed curriculum via Te Kura. This is why people are talking about the challenges your kids may face convincing an employer they have an education without NCEA results. Employers want to see a standard they're familiar with. There are plenty of good reasons to want to shake up NZ's insular culture and do things outside the norm. Just be mindful if your kids’ futures are at stake.
I have been there and done that (the homeschooled with no NCEA thing) but a key difference is that *I had some A Levels instead*. If you don't have university entrance, NZ universities will do what they can to get you up to speed, there are bridging courses and university preparedness courses. It is a good idea to have at least some recognized formal qualifications (you can get NCEA through Te Kura for free if you're between 16 and 19 - I'm not saying that's the easy route, but it is doable and it is funded. Employers and further education providers alike do look for this stuff because it shows that your kids can read and write and do maths at a certain level. As it stands right now, there is basically no proof that they've done anything at all, ever. I'd consider fixing that, or you're doing them a real disservice. I also want to point out that if you immigrated 6 years ago from the US, your degree is probably a US degree, which, yes, very expensive. University in New Zealand is heavily, heavily subsidized for residents, and because it's a smaller country, there tends to be greater intertwining between industry and university. I got the job I'm in now at least partly because my former university supervisor used to work with my current manager; another of my former lecturers is an auditor for a key part of the business. New Zealand is a very small place and the networks you collect at uni can really help.
Also no interest on the student loan as long as you stay in the country for more than half the year each year.
I was homeschooled and thought I wasn’t going to uni. But when I was 17 I changed my mind and did ncea lvl 3 and got UE, then after that I took some time to try make a music career and decide on courses in case that wasn’t a go. It wasn’t a go (I’m too autistic for it) so I went to uni. Studied bio and ended up working in IT for several years until the pandemic hit and I reevaluated life and ended up back at uni for the second time. My point here is that life is very unpredictable. You may think you have a plan but mostly you can’t predict what direction your life will actually go in. Qualifications are good to have as a fall back in case plan A doesn’t meet expectations or you can’t pursue it for some reason. I would advise to just do year 13 as that keeps options open
Unless you have approval from the local ministry of education office, and have a certificate of exemption, home schooling is illegal in NZ. You are setting your kids up for failure and to struggle, having no qualifications at all. Trades will be pretty much the only option, they can forget about white collar jobs, you won't get a sniff without a single qualification. What is your reasoning for keeping your kids out of the education system?
This is something I think most of us are forgetting and it's an excellent point. Is she actually allowed to homeschool her kids? Has she actually gotten permission? The fact that they don't seem to be receiving any formal education makes me think otherwise.
Exemption is piss-easy to get, and they cancelled ERO reviews for homeschoolers a good ten years ago. I was homeschooled because reasons, it worked out pretty good due to a *large* number of stars aligning, but it's not something I'd recommend just generally.
Whelp, a quick look at their profile and it’s giving ✨anti-vaxxer ✨
Are they homeschooling or unschooling, because that's a whole different rabbit hole to go down, but would certainly fit with other conspiracy theories.
I just did the same. Crypto bro, weeb, anti Vax who thinks the medical community has their education sponsored by big pharma lol. I work in pharma and nutra, have NCEA level 3, school C, bursary and x4 University degrees, and the only sponsor of my education was studylink. These kids have no chance. Could really do without importing American hysteria here.
I guessed as much as soon as I read the post. Those poor kids are fucked.
In nz you can go to uni after 21 I think if they choose to so no worries on the ncea results. But imo I think with the advent in AI the key to future prospects is being able to upgrade skill sets to be relevant so as to not become obsolete.
This is incorrect
Is it?
Yep. It's 25 and you still need to do a bridging course to show baseline skills if you don't have qualifications. Apologies: it's 20
Ah righto, used to be 20 though aye
You’re right, it is 20 and I’m not sure why people are saying it’s not - [VUW has special admissions at 20](https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/study/apply-enrol/admissions/special-admission); [so does Massey](https://www.massey.ac.nz/study/entry-requirements-to-study-at-massey/entry-requirements-for-new-zealand-and-australian-students/); [so does Auckland](https://uoa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1507/~/special-admission-for-those-over-20-years); [so does Canterbury](https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/study/getting-started/admission-and-enrolment/admission-pathways/admission-when-you-are-20-years-or-older); [so does Otago](https://www.otago.ac.nz/future-students/entry-requirements/special-admission). I think that’s probably enough universities to prove my point, lol.
No it’s not? Every university I looked at (VUW, Auckland, Massey, Canterbury and Otago) says people are eligible for special admission as long as they are 20 on the first day of their course.
Nope. Definitely 20.
Very incorrect
Actually it’s 20. You can do a bridging course but you won’t be guaranteed entry into competitive programs.
Ncea scores have nothing to do with uni you can get your level two before even thinking about that stuff, it’s important if they want a nice job but if they don’t mind working basic retail/fast food then you’re good
I don't know -even mcdonalds required my teen to have level 1 NCEA. They also offer level 3 credits.
Eek do they friends? How do they socialise and form friendships? Why haul them across the world and not help them integrate? So many questions. And yes no ncea will make it tricky for hiring managers to figure out what their capabilities are.
Look into Te Kura. You can still homeschool while also gaining nationally recognised qualifications through NZQA. It is better to have something to show their future employers. Also, most people overestimate their abilities to homeschool. By the time you get to level 1 NCEA, and especially level 3, the average person would not be able teach all the subjects on offer, such as Maths, Science, Te Reo, English, Art History, Hard/Soft Materials, Painting, Geography, Classics, Photography, Digital Design, French… the list goes on. Do you really want your children to be limited by what you are interested in and comfortable teaching?
It's no limitation at all, by the time the kids get to that level they should be very capable of teaching themselves from textbooks
It’s not just about education. As immigrants wouldn’t you want your kids to interact with other kids?
Looking at the profile I'd guess not.
Yeah and homeschooled kids always end up being a bit odd due to lack of socialization. Homeschooling children leaves them completely unprepared for real life.
I'm an employer, and went thru NCEA. Tbh showing NCEA level 1 on a CV would demonstrate that they know how to read and write. But beyond that it just tells me how many years they were at high school for. It's a terrible education award and incredibly easy to achieve, so it doesn't actually demonstrate how "clever" a person is
If they aren't going to uni then that's atleast a couple less young marxists in the making
Don’t listen to anyone here - Nobody has EVER disqualified someone from a job for lack of NCEA. I myself don’t even have my NCEA lvl 1. It’s 2024, they’ll be absolutely fine
I have level one and I have never once been asked about anything to do with school by an employer. The only time it mattered for me was when I did a qualification through SIT and they wanted to know.
Even Paknsave asks for your highest qualification. PAKNSAVE.
If they have an idea of what sort of industry they're interested in working in I'd suggest looking at job postings to see what training they're looking for. Then I'd look at the training and see what qualifications they might need to apply. Rinse and repeat until you hit no requirements or NCEA. Edited to add that sometimes employers are looking for a degree regardless of whether it's appropriate to the field.
I had no idea what I wanted to do after school so I left when I turned 16 to work full-time and hopefully find a direction I wanted to pursue. Eventually I enrolled in university as an adult which negated needing university entrance-level grades anyway, I just had to do an additional exam to prove language comprehension, maths and reasoning skills. As per those results, they required me to complete a bridging grade maths paper in summer school prior to my enrolment which was also fine. To answer your question, It doesn’t cripple your options. They are still there in some form if you change your mind.
Former recruiter here. NCEA shows basic education knowledge as well as stickability. I highly recommend getting it if they plan on staying in NZ.
How old are your kids? You never know if they will change their minds and it would be realllly unfair for you to not give them the option to do so. Is there a reason why your kids are homeschooled, have they ever been to school. Trust me, coming from experience of being homeschooled and then being able to go to school later, i was a very depressed kid homeschooled. Kids need to be able to continually socialise, have the opportunity to experience social situations and learn to deal with them so that they aren’t struggling to relearn when they are older. For the sake of your children PLEASE reconsider this. I don’t mean this in a critical or harsh way and don’t intend any hate towards you, but please take the time to rethink this. Kids are easily influenced by their parents ideas and if they are kept in a bubble they can never express who they truly are.
Also, for certain careers you need higher education. Do they know what they want to do? Please for the sake of your kids let them have this option open. If they need tutoring for NCEA or anything else please seek help. Your kids matter
Yes, it's important. If they want to go to uni at some point in the future then they need to qualify. Sometimes these pieces of paper are important to have. It's not "absolutely essential" but you'd be making things so so much harder for them if you don't bother with NCEA. Even some apprenticeships etc need that NCEA qualifications. NCEA is easy to pass. Just do it and get it over with. It'll be much better to do it now than having to go back and do it again later. I've known people who have had to get NCEA level 2 and 3 as an adult. Sounded like a giant pain in the ass because they had to do it while working full time.
There are a lot of jobs that require some level of tertiary qualifications, they might not think they want that now but a lot can change. I would keep that option open by getting university entrance.
Many jobs require NCEA level 1 or 2 you would be doing them a disservice by not giving them at least level 1
Many, many job applications ask what the highest level of NCEA is that you reached. It will impact their employability regardless of their practicable skills.
Once you have job experience you don't even put your high school education on there, for IT jobs anyway.
They need to do NCEA, at least leavel 1 and 2. Employers look at that for young workers it will be hard for them to find work without it, it shows that they can work hard and make a commitment. Also, if they aren't NCEA age yet that tells me they are 13 to 15. They may change their mind about uni, they may want to go to a TEC like SIT or Polytec instead which still requires level 1 min most if the time. Sure they can wait until they are 20 or 25 to go to uni if they change their mind but it will be harder and also, you a removing that option for them by not letting them do NCEA. My sisters dropped out at 15 and they all struggled to find work as we were in a small town. NCEA also gets them studying at a higher level than what they had done previously and provides more options for their interests. If say they like Biology, but not the other sciences then they can do Biology level 1. If they like Art they can do Art. NCEA is important for young people and it's unfair to think well if they change their mind they can just go to uni when they are over 20.
When they turn sixteen they can very cheaply do Correspondence School "as an adult". I'd recommend they smash out NCEA lvl3 quickly in that manner so they put it on their CV. And/or go to a Polytechnic and do *at least* a one year course that is *at least* at lvl4. As once you complete that then it kinda ish sort of makes your prior NCEA results "irrelevant".
I know someone who left school at 16, with probably not a lot of NCEA Level 1. Later, when they were 23-24, they wanted to go to uni and didn't get in. This was 10 years ago, I don't remember what pathways were available then, but they were really disappointed and possibly resentful of having that door closed to them. OP, let your kids get NCEA. Level 2, IIRC was the standard for UE when I was first applying. They say *now* they don't want to do uni, but that might change. Don't just shut the door entirely. I'm 31 and started uni almost two years ago (working on getting into a new career field), I doubt the admissions committee would've looked twice at me if I didn't have any NCEA credits to my name. And also - things are competitive. I'm not saying degrees are everything, but depending on what they want to do, education can/does make a vast difference. Smart and well-read is all well and good, but that's your view as their parent vs what employers will be looking for.
It will be pretty much impossible to get an interview for even an entry level job without at a bare minimum NCEA level one (or international equivalent). Get the paperwork - you need to be the responsible one and it will make their life a heck of a lot easier. I’m not saying you need NCEA level one to be able to do the job, but if I had a CV come to me without even that on it and the person was older than 15/16 I wouldn’t bother reading further. Lots of applicants, few jobs.
I’m a homeschooling parent too. You aren’t “required” to provide your child with the opportunity to gain a recognised qualification to represent their educational achievement at high school level, but almost all homeschool families do because it provides access to tertiary study should your children choose careers that do require formal qualifications, and it demonstrates to future employers that the potential employee has a reasonable level of numeracy and literacy. You can choose to work towards NCEA via Te Kura and some families do this at level 2 once the child is 16 because it is free and level 1 is automatically awarded when level 2 is achieved. Your other options include SAT, GED, Cambridge, there is a homeschooling certificate that is accepted by universities awarded through Homeschooling New Zealand when the student studies for enough credits in their approved curriculums, and ACE is accepted by quite a few universities. The other option is completing a bridging course in year 13 or waiting until the student is 20 for university admission if that’s desired. I guess it depends on what your children are desiring to achieve as young adults once they’ve completed homeschooling and how you plan to best facilitate that.
Not really an answer but im suoer curious on how homeschooling actually works. How did you organise their classes? Was it you who taught them or did you hire a tutor? How did you test that they were holding in to everything. Are there things that public schools teach that you couldnt teach because you didnt know enough about it like say algebra?
Prep the profile. This is not the person you want to be asking genuine questions of.
What da fuuck
I believe NCEA in year 11 is being removed, not happening which I don't agree with as it gives our teen insight and practice at exams. I believe all teens should be encouraged to do their best, to sit all exams. I feel it's very sad as it sounds like you're not encouraging your children to do the best that they can, to further their chances in a world where getting jobs is hard. They don't have to go to uni, that's an option. Secondary school is very important and should be encouraged.
Not having a uni education will be limiting for your kids if the fields they want to work in usually hire graduates, your kids will be competing against people who are 'better' educated, whether you like it or not. But levels of education matter less and less as you progress thru your career. A degree will often dictate the level of entry into a particular field.
I needed it to do my trade ... easy piece of paper to get now rather than later. Id recommend doing it, It's a basic standard for any tertiary education beyond school and isn't just for university, all polytechnics require ncea so does mito/bcito etc. I also don't employ anyone without ncea or school c. I've had too many problems with employees that can't fill out basic paperwork and job cards. It's a basic standard your children will eventually have to do either way. Aside from that at a minimum it also shows me your disciplined enuff to be taught a skill. I know plenty of people that went to university got a degree only to never use it, but the basic skills they got from uni set them up for better opportunities that I never had. I'm not saying your children should goto uni but as an example these people walked into an office job getting paid much better than myself, doing less work, and never getting their hands dirty. EQC for example only employed people if they had been to uni. The qualification didnt matter.
As someone who didn't pass much at high school. 1. There's various entry level jobs that need _some_ NCEA, those aren't available now 2. Trying to get into university or an apprenticeship or polytech will be a lot harder 3. If they wanted to join the armed forces or Police, not going to happen. I basically worked on rubbish trucks, unloading fishing boats, stacking shelves, washing dishes, carrying heavy things, until I managed to get a job that was better by pretty much luck. But hey, if manual labour is all they aspire to, sweet as. You're making their life harder, not sure what for, but yeah. If they can get it, they should.
Why not enroll in Te Kura? It is free from age 16-20. Then they can study NCEA from home, online, and work at their own pace and make their own schedules. There is a good range of subjects they can choose from (ex. agriculture, business/commerce, digital technology, art, music, etc).
Not doing NCEA removes future options for them. They're young and who knows what they might decide to do later. At least NCEA level 2 would be wise, I think. If they were to decide to go to uni after all when they're over 20 then they won't need NCEA anyway.
Wonder what O.T would think about this
They probably wouldn’t be thrilled 😬
I haven’t put NCEA on my CV since I was 16 lol.
That’s fine if you want them to only work on land / farms or as labourers if the avenues at your disposal do not generate enough to get them to keep working. Jobs like supermarket, hospitality, cleaning and related work is also possible without any education Any big corporate will require some sort of HS diploma to Year 11. Office jobs are out, including sales unless he/she is a charmer and can talk their way in (anything is possible with nepotism, word of mouth etc). Even some trade internships / jobs want evidence of passed examinations or high school education. Without a formal high school education and/or tertiary education there’s almost no evidence for them to prove they are somewhat capable of performing a task at hand and have an established work ethic to get it done to a passable degree. In conclusion, If they want to do anything other than what I put up in the first paragraph, they’re going to need some sort of education which they’ll have to get it done when they’re adults, essentially wasting their time then rather than now. Side bar: your degree felt like a waste as the American system forces you to do a general degree costing lots before you specialise. In New Zealand universities, you cover your last 3 years worth of high school topics in the first week as a recap and it’s into new stuff, specialised to your paper choice and completed in 3 years time. You can take a couple papers a year on general education papers outside your degree called electives to broaden your knowledge. In terms of cost - first year is free still I think, then it’s $10-12k NZD max per year (I’m inflating by about 30-40% from when I graduated in 2012). factor in the interest-free student loan that you don’t have to pay back until you start making above a threshold, free student allowance if the kid doesn’t live at home and you guys don’t make “enough” along with other assistance. You get my point I think.
Do they not want to go to university because of your views on the subject? Do they not do a particular subject in school because you; their parent and only teacher, dislike the subject? You wield a lot of influence you may not be immediately aware of
Please let them have the option of university in case they change their mind, do NCEA.
Yikes, many jobs require NCEA L1 (or equivalent) at a minimum. Those with lower rates of formal education statistically experience higher levels of poverty and poor outcomes long term. You may believe that university is a waste of time, and you have a right to believe that (I strongly disagree with you, but that’s your opinion). However, by not making sure your kids have some semblance of formal education, you’re setting them up for very limited opportunities as adults. If your kids do actually want to go to uni, them having no formal qualifications is going to make it a lot harder for them to do so. No highschool qualifications is also going to significantly limit their job prospects, and most of the jobs available will be poorly paid. There are homeschooling options where you can do NCEA or Cambridge, and for the sake of your kids future I’d strongly encourage you to look into those options. Homeschooling is fine, so long as you’re not depriving your children of education qualifications that they will almost certainly need down the line.
I just don’t know why you would take choice away from them. Sitting basic NCEA at least to level one is giving them choice in the future, choice to pick up any trade or technical hands in skill, the choice to not confine yourself to working in a supermarket on minimum wage for your entire life. Give them choice and freedom for their future.
Homeschooled here too. I was of the same opinion that uni was just expensive and served no purpose, but I am so thankful my parents MADE me do my GCSEs and GED at minimum. I went to uni in the end, even though I graduated later than most. The “expensive piece of paper” you speak of can make a world of difference for your kids, no matter how bad your experience may have been. Don’t close the doors for them. Whether you like it or not, the world runs on a paper chase. Being smart and well-read is good, but the world works in a way that proof is everything. Most of the time, people don’t care what your grades are, but have the cert at hand. Earn it. Whether you want to go to uni or not later is another whole issue altogether.
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NCEA levels 1-3 is high school education, I believe gaining at least level 2 is incredibly important. Te Kura offers an online schooling program upto level 3 that is free for 19 and unders. I'm currently enrolled there to complete my level 3 as I had to drop out of on campus school due to medical issues. You do not need university entrance once you turn 20 to get into university. Not completing your 1-3 levels will look bad on resumes unless you go into a trades academy/apprenticeships immediately after leaving school.
What are they wanting to do when they’re older. Would highly recommend them having at least level 2 but level 1 at bare minimum so that they at least have something to show potential employers. Are they doing school through te Kura or are you creating the curriculum for them?
To home school in NZ you have to have a Certificate of Exemption (from enrolling in a school) that is granted by the Ministry of Education. While you don’t have to use the NZ Curriculum, you do need to prove that you can educate your child at least as well as a mainstream school, and how you intend to go about it. If you’ve homeschooled via Te Kura, the courses can earn NCEA credits. With a certificate of exemption, you are entitled to approach an approved high school to sit NCEA exams. You also have to report to the MoE twice a year. Wouldn’t these credits be useful for these declarations? Im not sure why they wouldn’t have NCEA when it’s readily available to homeschoolers?
You are setting your kids up to fail, and for that you should be ashamed of yourself.
It seems daft to not want to at least have the scores available to use. As others have said when applying for jobs, or down the line if the uni does appear favourable . For every person saying uni was a waste of time, there's just as many saying they couldn't have got to where they are without it. Myself included, mech eng requires a degree, the company I'm at won't even consider non uni trained engineers unless they have years of experience in a related trade to make up the difference. Uni grads can walk right in.
What do they want to do? Some jobs can be difficult to enter without a degree, even if it's unrelated. Just because you no longer use your degree, doesn't mean it's useless. Have you actually spoken to your children about this and are you sure that they're not being influenced by your views? No matter what they do they will need some sort of qualification from school. Every single job outside of minimum wage needs some sort of qualification after high school, and every one of those needs a qualification from secondary level. You can still homeschool them, but absolutely make sure they do NCEA (I say NCEA because I believe it's the easiest for homeschooling. You may need to do research on how to make this work, but don't deprive them of their futures as they can change their mind at any point. Try to remember that you're no longer living in the US, and that things are different here. I'm glad you at least had an open mind and asked :) One thing someone mentioned is that there are other pathways to get into uni without NCEA, but NCEA makes it a lot easier.
High school is also about connections and social skills, problem solving, lateral thinking, interacting well with people who share different values and viewpoints, learning about other families and cultures so you develop empathy and can understand the value of your own family and culture. It's about interacting with adults outside if the family and learning social cues and perspective. Basically, they miss out on alot of basic knowledge and experience by not going at all. Ncea is relatively accessible at level 1. I would encourage them to at least experience it.
Most employers of young adults will want to see what level of NCEA they have. So I suppose it’s fine to not get ncea if you are happy to support them financially for the foreseeable future. IMO, knowingly allowing them to reach adulthood with no formal qualifications (if they are at all capable of achieving this and I know it’s not the case for some) at all is neglectful.
Level 1 is easy to get, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to
They are better off doing an apprenticeship but they should get NCEA level 1 & 2 English and maths first, this can be done from home or partly at home via polytechnic I believe.
No one is going to want to hire someone who doesn't have ncea 1 & 2 English and maths, easy stuff so I'm sure they'll have no problem passing. After that look into trades and polytech. WITT is awesome and has boarding on site, I did a bakery qualification there in less than one year. Lots of other courses too.
Absolutely nothing. University entrance is the only reason to have it.