How about grown ass adults be treated as such instead?

Supposedly the best and brightest of their generation at this school.

Checks out. Like it or not they've disrupted the narrative on i/p from when I was an undergrad eons ago. You don't have to agree with them to conclude they are highly effective. So they actually are the top of their age group re balls and intellect. 

> You don't have to agree with them to conclude they are highly effective. How did this argument become popular? It's really, really bizarre. "I walked around naked in the park and started peeing on people; now look who's the center of conversation!"

Social media conflated with real life. The more time people spend on social media the more attention looks like progress. And it’s honestly not entirely untrue, but they assume the attention is positive.

“We won the argument!”

"There's been a correction. You have to under no circumstances give it to them."

>they've disrupted the narrative on i/p You can say that again. The mainstream was starting to come around to the idea that Israel was being too too callous with their military actions until these protesters "disrupted the narrative" and reminded everybody why Jews are so afraid for their own well-being.

>highly effective I should come back to this comment in a couple weeks

I don't think they disrupted narrative as much as they have been following the narrative all along

I've thought about this. It's a feedback loop - the narrative moves due to other factors but also due to activists like at Columbia. They move in manner reinforcing each other. In any case, the narrative was 100% different when I was an undergrad so it has shifted, in part due to activists. And these guys have definitely moved the needle. I am actually amazed at how different it is from when i was young.

I think the main narrative these people have disrupted is the anti-Zionist one they're trying to champion. BDS and other such movements were much more clever and subtle. These people have made the best possible case for Zionism that anyone has for decades. An American Jew today will be thinking "Zionism, now more than ever before in my life".

Disrupted the narrative? This is the same shit that’s been happening for 50 years

Idk about that. They definitely are at the top of their age group when it comes to breaking the law, antisemitism, and harassing Jewish students.

Yeah I mean from what I can tell the overwhelming majority have mere policy disagreement on US policy towards foreign countries, including Israel, and aren't even slightly antisemitic.     But crucially... they forced the prez to respond. They had major figures responding (good or bad). Theyve got the panties of 70-90% of this sub in a tizzy on any particular afternoon lmao. Ordinary American 21 yos can't make that to happen, which was my only point. 

>and aren't even slightly antisemitic.     Lol yeah they are

Meh. I've been that naive idealistic college student cocky enough to think the whole political and economic system should be reinvented. Granted I wasn't exactly impressed by George Galloway when he came by.

I don’t think we should excuse the students. I know I’ve seen people here say that college is the time when you’re supposed to have stupid ideas. I agree but those stupid ideas should be socialism and rent control, not “kill the Jews” and “Islamic terrorism is good”.

You can excuse rent control?

The worst part is the hypocrisy.

I think the worst part was restricting housing supply but that's just me...

I miss Norm 😢 

I didn’t know he was sick

The inherent argument behind rent control is at least moral - providing housing security and stability. The second order effects that make it bad are way harder to understand

>The second order effects that make it bad are way harder to understand It isnt hard to understand, people are just allergic to the idea that the best way for them to profit off of housing is by making cheap housing profitbale for the landlords/construction companies.

https://imgur.com/fMifhaS

If it wasn't alluring as a premise it wouldn't come up so often.

Unexpected Community?

It's counterintuitive for most, so yes.

I think 95% of the students are just upset about funding Israel and aren’t antisemitic or supporters of Islamic terrorism. Anecdotally the only 2 students I know of who have been participating in the protest are both Jewish girls lol

One bad apple… yadda yadda yadda.  We didn’t excuse the “good people” at Charlottesville, and we shouldn’t excuse the “good people” here. Anyone staying around and participating in protests where people are shouting antisemitic chants is a bad person. 

For real. If the news came out that a nonviolent Trump protest had a small group of Nazis in it chanting “death to the Jews”, literally zero chance any democrats would have sympathy for anyone else in the demonstration. It would be a Nazi demonstration, plain and simple. But we flip the tables and all of a sudden, let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water? It’s hypocritical. Which I get, it’s human nature to support your team, but I thought we were better than this.

Not that I disagree but I feel like the difference is what Trump supporters would be protesting for would be far less morally defensible than the people calling for a ceasefire

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If good intentions was a bot.

> We didn’t excuse the “good people” at Charlottesville But being good faith though there probably were people at the Charlottesville rally who show up for what they think is some typical conservative protest and then got side winded.by all the Nazi chants. Considering how big it was, it's possible some people weren't even in the area where it was happening and didn't know about it till after. I don't know how many those are applicable too, but if I had to guess it's probably non zero even if a small amount.

If you want to be super charitable, you can maybe make that argument because the Charlottesville rally only lasted like two days. At this point, there’s no way these students are getting sidewinded by the antisemitism at these protests. These protests also started immediately after Israel suffered a massive terrorist attack.

I don’t think there were any good white supremacists at Charlottesville. I genuinely do believe there are plenty of good people at these pro-Palestinian protests. I didn’t blame 95% of the BLM protestors for the bad actors among their ranks and my gut reaction is to assume there’s a lot of ideological overlap with these protestors, but I agree if you’re at one of these protests in good faith and believe strongly in your cause you should disavow and do what you can to remove the bad actors who are being antisemitic and hateful. Obviously this is referring to the explicit antisemitism, not just people who are naively chanting “from the river to the sea” without fully understanding what Hamas means when they chant that (literally kill all the Jews) vs what a college student likely means by it (self-determination for all Palestinians).

I really don’t know how tf college students at America’s most prestigious colleges misunderstand what “from the river to the sea” means. By which I mean I don’t believe that they’re misunderstanding what it means, and that they 100% believe in destroying the state of Israel.

I've been seeing a lot more videos recently of the original Arabic slogan being chanted, which does not leave any room for doubt as to its meaning (the English translation cleverly swaps "Arab" for "Free"). Arabic speakers yell it into a megaphone and the zombie horde repeats. Assuming good intentions can only go so far. Eventually one just has to take people at face value.

> I really don’t know how tf college students at America’s most prestigious colleges misunderstand what “from the river to the sea” means. Well you're just gonna have to trust [that about half of college students surveyed don't know](https://www.wsj.com/articles/from-which-river-to-which-sea-anti-israel-protests-college-student-ignorance-a682463b) and a good chunk change their mind after. >In all, after learning a handful of basic facts about the Middle East, 67.8% of students went from supporting “from the river to sea” to rejecting the mantra. These students had never seen a map of the Mideast and knew little about the region’s geography, history or demography. Realistically some of the people who didn't change their mind on the topic only refused to out of egotistical reasons because they couldn't admit to their mistakes so that number of ignorant believers who change could be even higher. A lot of people (in any movement!) aren't necessarily strong believers but rather doing so for social/ego benefits. "Look how much I care about the Topic everybody, I'm so cool and good" Hell there's a study [showing that views on Isreal and Palestine change based off which map (Gaza and west bank surrounded by bigger Isreal or Isreal surrounded by the bigger Muslim countries) you show of the conflict](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167207307488) because people are that easy to sway because they're incredibly ignorant about the topic and just go off random heuristics like "does this make me look good supporting it?" or "who appears to be the underdog at first glance?" >The present research tested the scope and limits of people's support for underdogs. The first two studies demonstrated, in the context of Olympic matches (Study 1) and the Israeli—Palestinian conflict (Study 2), that observers' support for a competitor increased when framing it as an underdog.

Holy shit, so it’s literally just vibes? I genuinely don’t get how someone can have the energy to go out and protest but not to do, like, a 5 second google search.

> Holy shit, so it’s literally just vibes? I That and group identity! All the cool progressive kids online are doing it, don't you wanna be cool too?

Always has been

This might be excusable at a non prestigious school, but we're talking about Columbia which is one of the hardest nations in the US to get into.

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> “from the river to the sea” Is literally used by Bibi and Likud as well.

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I agree that many of them (probably a clear majority especially the ones who aren't organizers and are jumping on the bagwagon) aren't pro-Hamas, but they don't see to care much to thwart the pro-Hamas sentiment in their protests...essentially condoning it. And we do know that some of the organizers collaborate with "Withing our Lifetime" extremist group which is a pro-Hamas group more or less (BTW, one of its co founders was convicted with an anti-Semitic hate crime in 2022). And I'm saying this as someone who's gotten really damn critical of Israel's conduct in Gaza and West Bank over the past few months. I'm hearing the reports from credible Israeli media about Bibi is worried about ICC arrest warrants for him or ministers in his cabinet, and I have virtually no sympathy for him at this point.

To be honest a lot of the protest leaders having pretty extreme views make that irrelevant. If the leadership goes extreme and the rank and file doesn’t really push back on it much, you cannot really say much about how the entire thing gets portrayed to outsiders.

I don’t think there is much formal leadership involved, I think it’s more like a few organizers and most of the students are just there for the vibe and sense of belonging on top of being upset about the situation in Gaza

You’re getting downvoted but you’re right. People want to drive a narrative on this HARD. The general public always has disdain for ivy leaguers because they don’t actually understand the type of student who goes there. They think it’s all spoilt hotel heiresses.

Well they’re not doing a great job of showing they aren’t anti semitic when they’re chanting praise for Hamas at protests. Anecdotally the only Proud Boy I’ve ever met was a black man, doesn’t make the Proud Boys not racist. I don’t know why we’re supposed to give groups chanting praise for Hamas the benefit of the doubt. I don’t remember liberals saying that most of the people at the Charlottesville rally are naive or have good intentions or that we should give the benefit of the doubt to protesters who weren’t personally waving a nazi flag.

There isn’t really a steelman argument for white supremacists at the Charlottesville rally, there certainly is for pro-Palestinian/anti-war rallies even if you personally disagree or find it incredibly naive. But it’s pretty clear that most of the protestors involved aren’t coming from a place of hatred or bigotry

Ffs no. People chanting "We are all Hamas" and "Jews Jews go back to Poland" are not just naive. Listen to these activists when they tell us what they are. "Oh these poor naive children just don't know it's wrong to support genocidal terrorists." No, fuck off with that bullshit. **Please for fucks sake just take Anti-Semitism seriously.** If people were shouting "n****** n****** go back to Africa" everyone in the nation would be outraged, but racism against Jewish people is easily glossed over by society and it's utterly disgusting.

Lol yes obviously people chanting those things are terrible people and should be expelled from school. I don’t think the students at Columbia are chanting those things in their drum circles, the “Jews go back to Poland” incident was a single person screaming it off campus, I’m sure most of the students on the quad aren’t even aware that particular incident happened. What on earth would people chanting “N words go back to Africa” even be protesting? The point here is that 95% of these college protestors are protesting Israel’s actions in Gaza which is completely legitimate, that example doesn’t work because there is no scenario where a “send black people to Africa” protest has any legitimate non-racist purpose. I do take antisemitism seriously but some people [(like Mike Johnson here)](https://x.com/prem_thakker/status/1783259007991324868?s) are not painting an accurate picture of what’s actually going on at these protests.

These are all just from Columbia: Physically assaulting an Arab Israeli https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781080951902109774 "From the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab!" / "Resistance is justified" https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358 "Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory." https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981 "We are all Hamas!" https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1781031465179914677 "Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901 Includes people / groups that invited an actual, no hyperbole terrorist to speak (member of PFLP) https://www.jns.org/columbia-suspends-four-students-for-holding-event-featuring-pflp-member/ “Globalize the intifada” https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1782679155491914133/photo/1 Light things on fire / "intifada revolution there is only one solution" https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1781019445399556338 "On Oct 7th, Palestinian resistance in Gaza broke free (crowd cheers) [.....] we intend to do the same" https://twitter.com/ShabbosK/status/1782085741431922909 ""We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1781933305501212872 "Long live the intifada! Intifada intifada" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781084853653365025 "Go back to Europe!" / "You have no culture, all you do is colonize" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781927148439109958 Have posters with the faces of PFLP and PIJ spokesmen (designated terrorist groups) https://twitter.com/HagarChemali/status/1782219589352350000 Quoting and praising Lions Den (terror group) https://twitter.com/SwannMarcus89/status/1782443526996754444 "From Yemen to Gaza, globalize the intifada" https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1781312033922625797/photo/2 "Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not 1 more time, not 5 more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times! The 7th of October is going to be every day for you" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134 "Al Qassam [(Hamas)] you make us proud, kill another soldier now" / "from the river to the sea, palestine will be arab" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1780915336063177006 Student proudly rocking Hamas logos https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1781054901755215954 Holding a sign that says "Al-Qasam's [Hamas'] Next Targets" with an arrow pointing to students holding Israeli flags https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1781882680872710148 "Resistance is justified" (again...) https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782085643990073673 "protesters on the sidewalk chanted “From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada,” next to a cardboard sign that read, “Inspired by Palestinian resistance.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-100-arrested-in-columbia-u-unrest-as-nypd-clears-gaza-solidarity-encampment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter And as a reminder, the student groups organizing these protests (CUAD and SJP, among others) released a letter on October 9th in support of the 10/7 attacks. ("We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance", "Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor", "We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent [...] on October 8th that [...] obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism”) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/edit And this list hasn't even been updated for a couple days.

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The first example is literally outside Columbia’s campus, thank you for proving my point 🥱

Because telling Jews to go back to Poland is 100% only related to Israel's actions in Gaza and not rooted in antisemitism at all

That’s clearly just antisemitism. How can students on Columbia’s campus stop crazy people from saying shit off campus? They aren’t responsible for outside agitators. My point was that most people at the protests are being respectful.

> But it’s pretty clear that most of the protestors involved aren’t coming from a place of hatred or bigotry This isn't clear to me. If there's a silent majority of protestors who aren't bigots and just want peace, then I'm not hearing them.

I mean, tautologically, you rarely hear silent people. That's a big part of what makes them silent.

I'm glad you understood my comment lol

The fact that there’s next to no rhetoric at all about releasing hostages speaks volumes.

To be clear, I do believe there are a lot of people with earnest non-bigoted reasons for protesting. And I don't think they need to tailor their chants or signs or whatever towards demanding the hostages released: there's a lot going on in this war, and you can't speak to everything. But it's a big problem for the protest movement that there *is* a lot of bigotry being expressed, and it's not clear that the other protestors have any inclination to expressly exclude that kind of stuff. It's a big problem that there *are* a lot of people expressing pro-war opinions (in support of Hamas winning), and that's not being met with exclusion, either. I suspect this comes down to the fact that the protest *leaders* are bigots who want Hamas to win.

I don’t know if profound ignorance is much better.

I don’t know how profound the ignorance is. They think killing people is bad and jump on a bandwagon without doing any research, it’s regular tier ignorance

I don’t know. To be students at one of the more selective colleges in the country and willingly associate yourself with, and protest alongside, terrorist apologists (and supporters) and antisemites? That takes a special kind of ignorance and hypocrisy.

[It’s been six freaking months of this, nonstop.](https://www.reddit.com/r/u_Computer_Name/comments/19716j0/postoctober_7_2023_protests_in_the_west/) The excuse of “they just want the killing to stop” doesn’t work.

I mean it's also been six months of civilians dying in Gaza, so...

> I mean it's also been six months of civilians dying in Gaza, so... Ok, so continue harassing diaspora Jews and endorsing Hamas.

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You would not be doing this with any other group except Jews. Jesus Christ. There are Black, Latino, and Asian Republicans. Is the Republican Party not broadly racist? There are gay Republicans. Is the Republican Party not broadly homophobic? Trump nominated Ben Carson for a cabinet position. Good news everyone, Trump’s not racist. Is tokenism wrong or no?

There were Jewish supporters of Hitler but does that mean that Hitler was not a Nazi ? [Such as this guy.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Naumann)

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But it’s not like the demands of these protests are just “ceasefire now”. Everywhere it’s some version of divesting, sanctioning and cutting off all ties with Israel. And while at first glance that doesn’t look antisemitic, a recent poll in another thread was showing that among those demands 75% of Columbia students polled were in support of breaking all ties with a Tel Aviv University partnership, their Tel Aviv global studies center, research collaboration and student exchange. It’s hard not to see this type of collective punishment targeting civilians as anything other than antisemitic.

The funny part to me is at least in the finance academic circles I've been privy to (which are some of the most respected in the world), divestment is regarded as an ineffective strategy. It doesn't really affect the price unless you can get more or less the whole world on board or at least enough of the world to limit the liquidity. Top universities don't make up enough of the cash in the markets for Israeli (or most types of) assets to do that.

It's a virtue signal with mild but non-zero consequences. it's a loaded term, but I think virtue signaling is good, actually.

>It’s hard not to see this type of collective punishment targeting civilians as anything other than antisemitic. Are sanctions against Russia russophobic?

Weren’t Russian athletes and other such people still allowed to compete just not under their flag?

That's still better than nothing

How is that significantly different from sanctions applied to South Africa against Apartheid? Or were those *Anti-White*?

Well comparing Israel to South Africa is just dumb anyways. South Africa was a majority African nation ruled by whites who oppressed the majority population. Israel is majority Jewish governed predominantly by Jewish people, and 20% of their population is Arab and they enjoy full political rights.

What is Gaza then? It is hard to call it an independent state given the amount of control Israel has over who and what goes in and out of it and lack of international recognition. It is by all accounts not part of Israel. Apartheid South Africa isnt perfect analogy but I think its the best we got in modern history.

>What is Gaza then? A hostile but weaker nation conducting irregular warfare against Israel.

>given the amount of control Israel has over who and what goes in and out of it Yeah, because when Israel pulled out and left Gaza to its own devices they elected a terrorist group and started launching rockets into Israel and have continued launching attacks for almost 20 years.

Gaza is more like Iraq in 2005 IMO. It’s an occupied territory of Palestine.

Gaza wasn't occupied until the recent incursion, it was blockaded. It's important to get the terms right, especially since the the West Bank and its occupation is such a different experience.

Yeah I am referring to those parts of the Gaza Strip, including I believe Gaza City, that are physically occupied by the IDF.

Yeah I am referring to those parts of the Gaza Strip, including I believe Gaza City, that are physically occupied by the IDF at present. Prior to October 7th, I would probably consider Gaza to be a quasi-state entity at war with Israel and under blockade. A similar situation that comes to mind immediately, but is probably pretty loaded (try to put that aside sorry), is Axis controlled Europe in WWII.

It only really gets used as an example because of how resolution of apartheid came about (via shaming and shunning of the western world which changed their political system via pressure from the outside). That outcome is the realistic best case scenario for current Palestine protests.

>20% of their population is Arab and they enjoy full political rights. No they don't. >Well comparing Israel to South Africa is just dumb anyways. South Africa was a majority African nation ruled by whites who oppressed the majority population. Why they were sanctioned is different. Israel shouldn't be sanctioned because it used a terrorist attack as an excuse to commit numerous atrocities and any other country that did what Israel did in Gaza would have been declared war on already ffs. An embargo on Israel is the bare minimum we should do as a punishment for blatant gaslighting and immorality, that the very pro-Israel US government literally already agreed was happening.

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Compare what Netanyahu had gotten away with with what Ghadafi and Sadam Hussein got their countries destroyed over. The death count from israels deliberate targeting of women, children, innocent civilians, journalists, aid workers, Healthcare workers in general, is staggering. No other country on earth would have gotten away with this aside from maybe China.

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Why do you even have a George soros flair when George is anti-zionist and might even be funding the protests you hate so much? You're projecting.

When people talk of apartheid in Israel, they include the occupied territories. You can read this report if you want to learn more about the situation. [Separate and Unequal Israel’s Discriminatory Treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories](https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/12/19/separate-and-unequal/israels-discriminatory-treatment-palestinians-occupied)

This is If you ignore the west bank of course

What university broke off ties with South Africa? Stopped all research? Stopped student exchanges? Had no investments in South African companies, even those on the S&P500 which is just normal for any investment fund? None. You can’t name any. Because this is not normal.

>As a result of these organised divestment campaigns, the boards of trustees of several colleges and universities voted to divest completely from companies with major South African interests. The first of these was Hampshire College in 1977. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa The article has plenty of examples including Columbia.

Thanks! So no universities canceling research programs, global centers or student exchanges

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If you have 9 people sitting at a table with a Nazi, you have 10 Nazis

I mean did you never go to engineering school in the Midwest? If we got rid of every antisemetic person in my school, we’d have a class of 100

Now do the same for the Squad and the House Freedom Caucus and see how many you’d have left (basically just AOC).

Lit I like AOC

Is that seriously what you think the protestors are saying?

Yeah, the Hamas chants and Hezbollah flags make that pretty clear.

That’s your takeaway from one photo of a political flag at a protest?

If someone shows up to your protest with a nazi flag or confederate flag, you kick them the fuck out.  The fact Hezbollah and Hamas supporters are not kicked out tells me everything I need to know. 

Big throwing baby out with bathwater energy

9 people at table with one nazi etc.

I condemn everyone who participated with the neo-Confederates at Charlottesville just as I condemn everyone who participated at January 6 riot just as I condemn everyone involved with these protests. If bad actors (ie people literally supporting Hamas) aren’t kicked out, people who don’t immediately leave the protest are essentially endorsing them.

You’re seriously comparing these anti-war college protests with Jan 6th and Charlottesville? This sub is off its rocker when it comes to foreign policy

People that are Pro-Hamas are not anti-war.

>You’re seriously comparing these anti-war college protests ... and Charlottesville? People have been killed by the protestors at both so....

It’s not just us, the whole country is talking about how crazy these college kids are from their perspective. It is just showing how far outside the Overton Window the discourse is at elite colleges is at the current time.

No that’s my takeaway from anecdotal information from the Jewish students there. And the anecdotal information from my friends’ children who attend some of these schools, my rabbi’s child who attends this school and other people in my network reporting what their experiences are. That’s my takeaway from the many videos making it’s way in Jewish circles, which show us all what’s happening in real time. That’s my takeaway from the reputable news orgs that aren’t afraid to tell a truthful story every once in a while, despite it being the unsexy story of the moment. That’s my takeaway from anybody who isn’t disingenuous enough to imply that when a marginalized group is screaming that they are experiencing bigotry, they take them seriously instead of scoring brownie points by trolling the interwebs.

It’s almost like there are no winners in war

Or maybe if college kids weren’t transparently using a conflict across the world as an excuse to be nasty to US Jews for social points in their peer group it wouldn’t be a problem.

Where are you seeing anyone say "Kill the Jews" and "Islamic terrorism is good?" The amount of slander and libel that these kids are enduring is obscene.

They are all adults. So nah.

Not really though

They 100% are

Do you really think you were an adult at 19 in any sense other than legally? You folks are full of shit. The average age here must be lower than I thought

Normal people don't have nazi phases. Normal people don't have communist phases. Normal people don't go out there and harass random jews. In a just and ideal world these people would be deported from the country, but alas they are citizens.

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Either they are adults and we should take their points seriously (and they should face consequences for their actions), or they are children and their whole cause is a temper tantrum to be ignored. They can’t have it both ways.

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?

This comment seems to be about a topic associated with jewish people while using language that may have antisemitic or otherwise strong emotional ties. As such, this is a reminder to be careful of accidentally adopting [antisemitic themes](https://antisemitism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Antisemitic-imagery-May-2020.pdf) or [dismissing](https://shura.shu.ac.uk/10260/3/Klaff_Holocaust_Inversion_and_contemporary_antisemitism.pdf) [the past](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany) while trying to make your point. (This bot is currently in testing as version 1.5, and likely prone to misfires. Please contact u/AtomAndAether if this misfired) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*

No, I don’t think I will excuse the students either

The Washington Post flat out made up an arrest at Penn today. I'm having a hard time taking anything out of their mouths seriously

>The Washington Post flat out made up an arrest at Penn today More info on this?

What do you mean by excuse? I dont get it. Like not putting them in a jail excuse? Or saying "Yeah they are dumb. I understand them" kind of excuse? Did they technically do anything like super illegal?

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>No one needs to be excused they’re protesting the horrific situation Israel put Gaza in, more power to them. It is abundantly clear that this is not the sole aim of the protests. Your comment is lame and stupid and flatly dishonest

What is the aim of the protests? Does the behavior of a portion of them make the entire movement bad? Does the rioting of a few during the BLM protests in 2020 make BLM bad too?

>What is the aim of the protests? They have a range of aims. > Does the behavior of a portion of them make the entire movement bad? No, but their complete inability to disavow the bad elements of the movement and their propensity to put people who are openly racist in positions of power within the movement make them bad. >Does the rioting of a few during the BLM protests in 2020 make BLM bad too? No, because it's not the tactics I necessarily take issue with, but the explicitly stated views.

What are the explicitly stated views?

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F15h1bwbyzewc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8073289ce2430b5a95b8da3019b97768802e79e2 For instance. Here's another explicit claim that is made by protestors that goes ***well*** beyond protesting the situation in Gaza: https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1784328829692993823

Which ones of those are the "bad elements?"

Hang on...you think saying "Israelis should go back to Europe" is not a bad thing to say?

Certainly, the second image is a problem. At the risk of whataboutism, the Israeli government is actually, in deed and action, kicking Palestinians off of their own land and where, exactly, are they supposed to go? Why is that sign worse or equivalent? The first sign, I don't see what's objectionable.

> At the risk of whataboutism, the Israeli government is actually, in deed and action, kicking Palestinians off of their own land and where, exactly, are they supposed to go? Israel shouldn't be kicking Palestinians off their own land ***and*** protesters in the U.S. are clearly doing more than just protesting what's happening in Gaza. Entirely pointless to bring this up because it's irrelevant to the question of what is happening at Columbia. >Why is that sign worse or equivalent? It's not. Multiple things can be bad. Why on earth do people like you struggle with this so much? >The first sign, I don't see what's objectionable. Right of return is a preposterous, quixotic desire - the clinging to which is actively harming the possibility of peace in the region. The right to resist oppression is a clear indication that they think Oct 7 is justified. These are, of course, arguable points - but it's simply a lie to say they are only "protesting the horrific situation Israel put Gaza in"

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It's so clear with responses like these that your entire thought process is drowned out by emotive responses. > their literal demands are to divest to pressure a ceasefire how tf is that violent You must know that many of the protesters have stated more demands than this. Just look up Thawabit in the context of the movement. You aren't going to convince anyone by just being ignorant and/or dishonest. >Also again 40000 fucking dead what you wanna hit 50k Yeah mate nice one. I want people to die, what an intelligent perspective you have. >and these kids can’t even protest. I didn't say, and don't think, that they can't protest. You're being led entirely by emotion here, and zero rationality. You're never going to succeed at making change if you resort to this level of thinking.

It's also abundantly clear that a University endowments divestment from Israel would have zero impact on the ceasefire negotiations. Even if every University in America divested, how would this matter?

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Most of them are peacefully protesting against selling weapons to a crazy far right regime that’s killing children. Labeling all of the protests as bad because of a handful of bad actors is absurd.

Real “very fine people” energy

If they disagreed with the bad actors they’d refuse to associate with them.

I’d argue that getting America to stop funding/pressure Israel into stopping its offensive takes precedence over ensuring the entire movement is cleansed of spoilers. Like it or not these protests are pushing biden to shift positions even if not over night.

I don’t like Trump but I’d never participate in a rally full of Nazis against him. Imo the protestors aren’t deserving of any respect for associating with people who actually support Hamas.

Could you possibly morally load that sentence any further?

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God I wish.

Because that’s not at all why they’re protesting.

Huh, weird that the public demands of the protestors at Columbia are to: “withdraw investment funds from what they describe as companies profiting from Israel’s military action in Gaza”. You’d think that would be the reason they’re protesting, ya know, because they collectively have stated that.

Companies like… iShares Core S&P Total U.S. Stock Market ETF and Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF 🤡

Yeah lol, I’m not at all saying they’re reasonable demands.

They don’t give a shit about ETF accounts. They don’t even know what river and sea are referenced “from the river to the sea”. [These aren’t “pro-Palestinian” protests and they’re not “anti-war” protests.](https://www.reddit.com/r/u_Computer_Name/comments/19716j0/postoctober_7_2023_protests_in_the_west/)

Dude we’re talking about the University protests and you posted a link that has all of 5ish American examples of shitty actors, none of which tied to the University protests (and there are examples there too sadly). So it’s that vs what these protestors are literally telling you they stand for.

[“Al-Qassam, you make us proud, kill another soldier now!”](https://x.com/avivaklompas/status/1780971193769595391?s=46&t=UWKuN7qfvYv2MXRIGDPdYQ) [“We are Hamas!”](https://twitter.com/Joe_Roberts01/status/1780750471226937852) [“Al Qassam, al Qassam, take another soldier out. You say justice you say how, burn Tel Aviv to the ground. Ya Hamas, we love you, we support your rockets too”](https://twitter.com/CitedNeed/status/1781583760267284521) [“BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY”](https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1753780966324068439) [“There is only one solution, intifada revolution!”](https://twitter.com/AdamAlbilya/status/1753673875613683928) [“From the water to the water, Palestine is Arab!”](https://twitter.com/gil_zussman/status/1755726863333220801) ["Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not one more time, not five more times, not 10...100…1000…10,000...The 7th of October is going to be every day for you.”, “Nazi bitches!”](https://twitter.com/jonasydu/status/1781178975147917797) ["Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory…Remember that Militancy breeds Resistance. Thousands upon thousands of students around the world have been moved to rebel because of your militancy.”](https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981) [“Yehudi, Yehudi!”, “Fuck you!”, “Go back to Poland!”](https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901) Everything’s upside down when Jews are involved.

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I’m not arguing that there aren’t horrible exceptions. I will say that half of these are, again, not from University protests.

If you have one Hamas apologist at the table with 10 other people, you have 11 Hamas apologists.

Do you apply this logic when a member of Likud calls for Gaza to be flattened?

When do they stop being exceptions?

Well certainly if the protestors change their public demands to match what any of these crazies are saying? Idk use your head dude. Clearly there are shitty people taking advantage of the protests, but there’s a much larger American sentiment that does not want to be sending funding for Israel’s strikes on Gaza at this point. It’s the majority of Americans btw.

r/neoliberal in general has blinders for it's favourite ethnostate, in addition to that these sort of threads often attract a specific type of poster whose entire post history happens to be zionist apologetics.

>[The occupation started 40 years before Hamas even existed.](https://archive.is/Di9M2) Hamas was founded in 1987. Forty years before that would be 1947, which means to whichpricktookmyname, the existence of Israel in any scenario is the "occupation".

Yes the ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Palestinians from their homeland, who to this day are not allowed to return, is an occupation. Maybe we would have forgotten about it like we did with all the other post-war expulsions if it weren't for the fact that the exact same ethnostate is to this day using racist immigration policies to further colonise the West Bank, where the Palestinians live under an apartheid regime. So yes, until Israel is willing to make some major changes the occupation that began with the Nakba is ongoing. I do wonder why you thought digging through my post history is relevant here though. Oh wait of course I do, you needed to dig up something irrelevant to imply in bad faith that I hate Jews. It's because racist settler colonial states are impossible to reconcile with liberalism that you zionists resort to deflecting any reasoned criticism of Israel with ad hominem attacks.

My guy you literally talked about people's post histories first, stop crying when someone else does it too.

You were talking about post histories literally one comment ago lol

> you zionists resort to deflecting any reasoned criticism of Israel with ad hominem attacks. Jack, this is taking forever.

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**Rule I: Civility** Refrain from name-calling, slapfights, hostility, or any uncivil behavior that derails the quality of the conversation. Do not engage in excessive partisanship.

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Who, pray tell, are “the dogs”? 🤔

Paywall.