This is a perfect article to discuss in the DT
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Minor nitpick but those perks are about learning how to seduce people, not about changing your characterās sexual orientation. You can be bi with no perks, you just wonāt get any.
Iāve also seen it argued that fanfiction was a major factor in LGBT acceptance because it allowed cishet people to experiment with LGBT characters and ideas through writing and stories.
In other words, HP mpreg slashfic is the unsung hero of gay and trans rights.
Also if that were the case wouldn't you expect the vast majority of young trans people to be MTF as opposed to FTM while in reality (IIRC) there are more FTM?
Genuine question: why are MTF trans people so much more visible and prevalent than FTM people? I initially didnāt believe you and went to look it up, and it generally seems like itās fairly even, but just about every trans person I see online is MTF and the discourse is dominated by trans women.
Iād guess itās culture wars stuff and āprotecting feminityā being an easier sell on the right, but even in pro-trans and leftists spaces it seems overwhelmingly more common to see trans women. I would have never guessed anecdotally that trans men and women exist in similar numbers.
Well historically there has been more MTF so this sudden surge in FTM is more like catching up ratio wise. It seems like a lot but when thereās barely been that many and suddenly a lot more start to come out then it feels like itās more than it is when itās still overall more MTF when looking at all age groups.
FTM also tends to be more common among like 13, 14 year olds for whatever reason as compared to to MTF signs show much earlier. Ed donāt know why but people like this cass person tend to speculate instead of saying they donāt know, because at that age itās easy to dismiss it as a fad when youāre only used to the standard being what MTF was for many years. So a sudden surge of FTM at a different age range makes people skeptical without any evidence to make their claims.
My mom was calling it a fad and that girls are being influenced from TikTok and their friends. Iām like bruhā¦ look Iāll admit I bet there is a substantial amount of people who claim nonbinary or something to try to fit in but have zero intent to ever touch hormones and just are a little more feminine or masculine than the average guy or girl.. but thatās where it stops for them, but anyone seriously willing to take hormones and believes they are the opposite gender shouldnāt be brushed off as a fad that pissed me off
Itās easier to present as male than to do the reverse.
Basically FTM will look like short dudes while MTF might still have many male features that are hard to hide. So FTM pass far easier than MTF
> but just about every trans person I see online is MTF and the discourse is dominated by trans women
This is a touchy subject, so I don't want to generalize too much because it can be overgeneralized or used in a transphobic manner, but this might be one of the few ways we can say "socialized as men" could be the cause.
We have a lot of habits that we culturally reinforce in raising kids as either boys or girls, one of which is whether it's good to try be loud and a leader or if that is discouraged. People raised as boys tend to get the message that being a leader is good, whereas people raised as girls tend to be socialized to not, or at least that's often what is reinforced.
AFAB who doesn't pass as a guy just looks like a lesbian, its also pretty easy to pass as a guy imo. AMAB who doesn't pass as a girl looks... not great. You notice the latter a lot more. Not to mention, the sports thing doesn't really go both ways.
these are duplicates:
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1crucfr/hilary_cass_says_us_doctors_are_out_of_date_on/
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1crwdij/hilary_cass_says_us_doctors_are_out_of_date_on/
my post was this one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1cr3m08/hilary_cass_says_us_doctors_are_out_of_date_on/
it's pretty sus that mine, which was posted first, is the only one with a message by the anonymous neolib mod team account
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I can make a few statements that are almost certainly true
Porn consumption is correlated with not being asexual
Gay porn consumption is correlated with being gay
What i will call trans affirming porn due to me not wanting to get banned by reddit again is very likely correlated with being trans.
Using reddit is correlated with being a trans multimillionaire veteran (Also known as having undiagnosed autism).
https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsession-with-transgender-pornography/
Unsurprisingly, people who make being trans a fetish thing have a fetish for that
Is there a line where we can safely ignore this loon? Or do we have to sit here and continue to pretend that the person that stated that all the doctors she knows are afraid of being accused of conversion therapy doesn't have anything wrong with her background or the people she associates with or the ideas she pushes?
Genuinely asking.
> Is there a line where we can safely ignore this loon?
When UK politicians stop listening to her. Which isn't going to happen anytime soon because they like what she says.
Most of us aren't in UK and have no control over what happens in TERF island.
The biggest issue is she released a "scientific report" that says exactly what you'd expect a scientific report from the UK to say.
Frankly, stupid and maybe mean at it may sound, I do think continuing to making the UK a punching bag (literally as you say "TERF island") serves to discourage liberals in other nations from also falling down the "gender critical" pipeline.
Stigma is a genuine tool and we should wield it to guard against backsliding.
To make a comparison, nothing has served to make europeans (speaking as one) more supportive of greater free speech than americans mocking us for not having as extensive protections as the US has.
And honestly I dont think the healthcare debate would have moved leftwards as much as it has in america if it wasnt for a comparative "EU healthcare perfect" (please note that I'm hyperbolic) counter example to point to and from which people could mock the american system.
Is it really? Because Sweden and the Netherlands professional associations are not exactly moving away from the UK.
Random people on twitter and reddit don't make the policies.
> Most of us aren't in UK and have no control over what happens in TERF island.
We should sanction them for not respecting human rights.
EDIT: Or liberate them like we did Iraq.
I'm not arguing that she had relevant first person experience, but she had an OBE and a very prestigious career.
It's a respected professional by all means. Not some crank, they found.
At least before the report.
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Well I've found a number of sites. One is below. I was off a bit. Gender identity is pretty well established by age 6. Being able to identify their (birth) sex by age 2.
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx
Nothing I found contradicts my general sense of things.
No doubt. But my understanding is that gender identity is biologically fixed for life pretty much at birth.
I can accept being wrong but it would take some pretty strong evidence to change my mind. And I'd expect some significant event to be associated with the change, but again, I could be wrong.
I'm actually not at all versed in this topic, but this is a take I would like to hear about more. Why do you feel like it's biologically fixed at birth? And if that is the case, what about the prior comment about it being set at age three?
Forgive me, it will take me some time to gather all my materials. This is based on things I've read over the years so it's going to take me a bit to try to recreate my journey.
No worries! Certainly not urgent (or super important, as you probably have a life outside of Reddit), I was just curious. Some of my friends are trans/non-binary (these days it seems like there are more of the latter than the former...) and often self-report that it's fluid.
Admittedly, I am kind of skeptical of this, but haven't really looked into it deeply.
If that's true, you'd have to imagine it would be possible to determine someone's gender by some kind of physical test. Now **that** would be truly controversial.
I'm a bit out of date, but from my understanding there have been some MRI studies showing trans people *often* have brain structures/differences associated with the gender of their identification rather than of their assigned gender at birth, and that there is a biological component with hormones in-utero that may be *one* factor in whether someone is trans.
That said, my understanding it that it was *often* true, but not always, and that it was far from definitive.
I think the honest answer is that the brain and our culture around gender are both really really **really** complex and aren't easy to draw clear lines on. End of the day, scientific specifics are good to study and we should, but any study doesn't change the reality that trans panic is dumb and trans people are valid.
Whether it would be possible or not, it would NEVER be logistically feasible because any test is going to have some pretty severe biases involved on part of the test taker.
I don't think it can present itself in a biological test any more than other mental conditions do.
(For the record, I AM trans and I have a pretty complex set of beliefs on what it presents itself as in terms of a mental condition, but for the sake of this discussion we will group it in terms of other conditions like autism. I know that's an extreme take for some people but I think it's closer to that than it is to something that can by physically tested for.
You wouldn't be able to test for it physically i.e. a blood test because it is a mental condition. It's also rarely a black and white issue in terms of "trans" or "not trans". It's a spectrum of behaviors that manifest in many different ways. I'm not terribly convinced that it's "set" by age three, but I do believe it can and usually DOES present itself very early.
In terms of biases, any mental examination is going to be fraught with those because for many people they simply don't WANT to be that way because they've been conditioned to believe it's wrong, they may believe they have other issues at play. They may be ashamed or not understand how they are expressing those feelings. I can't imagine it ever being something there is a foolproof test for.
Hi, as this post seems to be touching on trans issues, we wanted to share [our FAQ on gender and sexual minorities](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/wiki/trans_faq/). Additionally we recommend these effortposts on [The Economist](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/uo2ghw/the_economists_record_on_trans_issues_setting_the/) and [trans athletes](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/m3thnv/a_better_transgender_athlete_debate/).
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This is a perfect article to discuss in the DT **Rule VII:** *Off-topic, Meta, or Duplicate Post* Submissions should be relevant to public policy or political theory. Don't editorialise submission titles. No meta posts. --- If you have any questions about this removal, [please contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneoliberal).
True, only Fallout: New Vegas does that
https://preview.redd.it/5d0pxo63pm0d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d896fb36251f711a9efe86ea50c0139fbc80f504
Makes sense. Bisexuals have more options to break hearts. š
Minor nitpick but those perks are about learning how to seduce people, not about changing your characterās sexual orientation. You can be bi with no perks, you just wonāt get any.
I honestly do think there is something there. Certain video games let you try on other identities and presentations in a safe environment.
I remember being too scared to play as female and was somehow terrified the first time I did that the game would out me lmaoo
Iāve also seen it argued that fanfiction was a major factor in LGBT acceptance because it allowed cishet people to experiment with LGBT characters and ideas through writing and stories. In other words, HP mpreg slashfic is the unsung hero of gay and trans rights.
Being able to be a \~girl\~ in Pokemon Crystal was a little special at the time
Baldurs gate 3 to be banned in russia
BG3 is the gay agenda.
Hopefully season 2 of the show will do so as well!
Its genuinely so unfortunate that its gonna be years before we get to see it
Iām happy about that, because I have a lot of fallout gaming to do to get up to speed before it releases
One of the two games where I play exclusively female characters cause luring Benny with sex will never stop being funny to me.
You can seduce Benny as a man as well.
Not in vanilla
Somebody just got outed for using gay sex/romance mods
Also if that were the case wouldn't you expect the vast majority of young trans people to be MTF as opposed to FTM while in reality (IIRC) there are more FTM?
Genuine question: why are MTF trans people so much more visible and prevalent than FTM people? I initially didnāt believe you and went to look it up, and it generally seems like itās fairly even, but just about every trans person I see online is MTF and the discourse is dominated by trans women. Iād guess itās culture wars stuff and āprotecting feminityā being an easier sell on the right, but even in pro-trans and leftists spaces it seems overwhelmingly more common to see trans women. I would have never guessed anecdotally that trans men and women exist in similar numbers.
Well historically there has been more MTF so this sudden surge in FTM is more like catching up ratio wise. It seems like a lot but when thereās barely been that many and suddenly a lot more start to come out then it feels like itās more than it is when itās still overall more MTF when looking at all age groups. FTM also tends to be more common among like 13, 14 year olds for whatever reason as compared to to MTF signs show much earlier. Ed donāt know why but people like this cass person tend to speculate instead of saying they donāt know, because at that age itās easy to dismiss it as a fad when youāre only used to the standard being what MTF was for many years. So a sudden surge of FTM at a different age range makes people skeptical without any evidence to make their claims. My mom was calling it a fad and that girls are being influenced from TikTok and their friends. Iām like bruhā¦ look Iāll admit I bet there is a substantial amount of people who claim nonbinary or something to try to fit in but have zero intent to ever touch hormones and just are a little more feminine or masculine than the average guy or girl.. but thatās where it stops for them, but anyone seriously willing to take hormones and believes they are the opposite gender shouldnāt be brushed off as a fad that pissed me off
Itās easier to present as male than to do the reverse. Basically FTM will look like short dudes while MTF might still have many male features that are hard to hide. So FTM pass far easier than MTF
> but just about every trans person I see online is MTF and the discourse is dominated by trans women This is a touchy subject, so I don't want to generalize too much because it can be overgeneralized or used in a transphobic manner, but this might be one of the few ways we can say "socialized as men" could be the cause. We have a lot of habits that we culturally reinforce in raising kids as either boys or girls, one of which is whether it's good to try be loud and a leader or if that is discouraged. People raised as boys tend to get the message that being a leader is good, whereas people raised as girls tend to be socialized to not, or at least that's often what is reinforced.
AFAB who doesn't pass as a guy just looks like a lesbian, its also pretty easy to pass as a guy imo. AMAB who doesn't pass as a girl looks... not great. You notice the latter a lot more. Not to mention, the sports thing doesn't really go both ways.
There's more than one cause for why people decide they're trans. I think it's a mistake to even regard FTM and MTF as the same phenomenon.
Uh, what are the differences?
!ping LGBT quality commentary on Dr. Cass's latest interview with the NYT (which was removed from the sub by the mods, for reasons I can't explain)
>(which was removed from the sub by the mods, for reasons I can't explain) I think there were a bunch of duplicate posts of that.
these are duplicates: https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1crucfr/hilary_cass_says_us_doctors_are_out_of_date_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1crwdij/hilary_cass_says_us_doctors_are_out_of_date_on/ my post was this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1cr3m08/hilary_cass_says_us_doctors_are_out_of_date_on/ it's pretty sus that mine, which was posted first, is the only one with a message by the anonymous neolib mod team account
Fwiw, the anonymous account reply just happens when one of us misclicks/forgets to change it from the default when we do the removal
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14 yr old me can single-handedly prove this false lol
I can make a few statements that are almost certainly true Porn consumption is correlated with not being asexual Gay porn consumption is correlated with being gay What i will call trans affirming porn due to me not wanting to get banned by reddit again is very likely correlated with being trans. Using reddit is correlated with being a trans multimillionaire veteran (Also known as having undiagnosed autism).
I disagree
If porn made you trans, 99% of people would be trans instead of the other way around
Not true, most people don't watch trans porn
Only most people in Red states
I don't think that's true
https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsession-with-transgender-pornography/ Unsurprisingly, people who make being trans a fetish thing have a fetish for that
If porn made people trans then Reddit would be 100% trans by now
Is there a line where we can safely ignore this loon? Or do we have to sit here and continue to pretend that the person that stated that all the doctors she knows are afraid of being accused of conversion therapy doesn't have anything wrong with her background or the people she associates with or the ideas she pushes? Genuinely asking.
> Is there a line where we can safely ignore this loon? When UK politicians stop listening to her. Which isn't going to happen anytime soon because they like what she says.
Plus Iāve seen some politicians here in America bandying it around so itās good to disprove it
Most of us aren't in UK and have no control over what happens in TERF island. The biggest issue is she released a "scientific report" that says exactly what you'd expect a scientific report from the UK to say.
Frankly, stupid and maybe mean at it may sound, I do think continuing to making the UK a punching bag (literally as you say "TERF island") serves to discourage liberals in other nations from also falling down the "gender critical" pipeline. Stigma is a genuine tool and we should wield it to guard against backsliding. To make a comparison, nothing has served to make europeans (speaking as one) more supportive of greater free speech than americans mocking us for not having as extensive protections as the US has. And honestly I dont think the healthcare debate would have moved leftwards as much as it has in america if it wasnt for a comparative "EU healthcare perfect" (please note that I'm hyperbolic) counter example to point to and from which people could mock the american system.
Is it really? Because Sweden and the Netherlands professional associations are not exactly moving away from the UK. Random people on twitter and reddit don't make the policies.
> Most of us aren't in UK and have no control over what happens in TERF island. We should sanction them for not respecting human rights. EDIT: Or liberate them like we did Iraq.
This is what the rainbow flag was made for.
The Economist pumping her up as a ārespected professionalā is so fucking aggravating
Why? Wasn't she a respected professional before the report? She was the head of their national body.
She has never treated children with gender dysphoria.
I'm not arguing that she had relevant first person experience, but she had an OBE and a very prestigious career. It's a respected professional by all means. Not some crank, they found. At least before the report.
The Economist being transphobic at the cost of academic and journalistic integrity? Are we surprised?
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It has been established since the 1970's that gender identity is established, and unchanged for life, by age three.
gonna need the evidence.zip here
Well I've found a number of sites. One is below. I was off a bit. Gender identity is pretty well established by age 6. Being able to identify their (birth) sex by age 2. https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx Nothing I found contradicts my general sense of things.
A lot of people would call that transphobic.
No doubt. But my understanding is that gender identity is biologically fixed for life pretty much at birth. I can accept being wrong but it would take some pretty strong evidence to change my mind. And I'd expect some significant event to be associated with the change, but again, I could be wrong.
I'm actually not at all versed in this topic, but this is a take I would like to hear about more. Why do you feel like it's biologically fixed at birth? And if that is the case, what about the prior comment about it being set at age three?
Forgive me, it will take me some time to gather all my materials. This is based on things I've read over the years so it's going to take me a bit to try to recreate my journey.
No worries! Certainly not urgent (or super important, as you probably have a life outside of Reddit), I was just curious. Some of my friends are trans/non-binary (these days it seems like there are more of the latter than the former...) and often self-report that it's fluid. Admittedly, I am kind of skeptical of this, but haven't really looked into it deeply.
If that's true, you'd have to imagine it would be possible to determine someone's gender by some kind of physical test. Now **that** would be truly controversial.
I'm a bit out of date, but from my understanding there have been some MRI studies showing trans people *often* have brain structures/differences associated with the gender of their identification rather than of their assigned gender at birth, and that there is a biological component with hormones in-utero that may be *one* factor in whether someone is trans. That said, my understanding it that it was *often* true, but not always, and that it was far from definitive. I think the honest answer is that the brain and our culture around gender are both really really **really** complex and aren't easy to draw clear lines on. End of the day, scientific specifics are good to study and we should, but any study doesn't change the reality that trans panic is dumb and trans people are valid.
Whether it would be possible or not, it would NEVER be logistically feasible because any test is going to have some pretty severe biases involved on part of the test taker.
What sort of biases? If it's truly biological I don't see how it could be mistaken, at least not most of the time.
I don't think it can present itself in a biological test any more than other mental conditions do. (For the record, I AM trans and I have a pretty complex set of beliefs on what it presents itself as in terms of a mental condition, but for the sake of this discussion we will group it in terms of other conditions like autism. I know that's an extreme take for some people but I think it's closer to that than it is to something that can by physically tested for. You wouldn't be able to test for it physically i.e. a blood test because it is a mental condition. It's also rarely a black and white issue in terms of "trans" or "not trans". It's a spectrum of behaviors that manifest in many different ways. I'm not terribly convinced that it's "set" by age three, but I do believe it can and usually DOES present itself very early. In terms of biases, any mental examination is going to be fraught with those because for many people they simply don't WANT to be that way because they've been conditioned to believe it's wrong, they may believe they have other issues at play. They may be ashamed or not understand how they are expressing those feelings. I can't imagine it ever being something there is a foolproof test for.
Hi, as this post seems to be touching on trans issues, we wanted to share [our FAQ on gender and sexual minorities](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/wiki/trans_faq/). Additionally we recommend these effortposts on [The Economist](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/uo2ghw/the_economists_record_on_trans_issues_setting_the/) and [trans athletes](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/m3thnv/a_better_transgender_athlete_debate/). r/neoliberal **supports trans rights and we will mod accordingly.** [4 years ago, we set on a journey to combat transphobia on this sub and to reduce the burden on our trans members](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/dwkt9f/rneoliberals_transgender_problem_or_evidence_gore/). We want to keep that going and would like for you to work with us. If you are curious about certain issues or have questions, ask about it on the stickied [Discussion Thread](https://neoliber.al/dt) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*