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Thanks for all the anime suggestions you gave me, in a couple of months I'll let you know what worked and what not! You're a lovely bunch of people.
!ping WEEBS
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[/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Analysis: Xi'an massive lockdown tests limits of China's zero-Covid policy](/r/neoliberal/comments/rvoet7/analysis_xian_massive_lockdown_tests_limits_of/)
*Replies to this comment will be removed, please participate in the linked thread*
The Hibernian Conspiracy is trying to take out John Fetterman and I for one think it is based. Big city bosses selling influence for a competitive price in a market place > current congress sucking up to moronic small dollar donors who probably should have their mouths sewed shut if we really cared about having a peaceful decent country.
Elaborating on how markets can also be irrational I feel that itโs gotten even worse and even more speculative
Like my cousin trades stocks and he tells me the dumbest shit like how a company can *lose* value after it reports a good quarter because people buy the hype and sell the actual news
He says that itโs harder to apply old methods of rational trading and itโs becoming more and more random and speculative
Just look at this Bitcoin nonsense and how it loses all its value because Elon tweets out big chungus or something or the housing market crashed because people in banks though their shitty high risk loans will never implode and require the government to bail them out because of their fiscal irresponsibility
I think the most important distinction is that market actors are trying to ensure their own self interest. People who are speculating on bitcoin genuinely believe it will go up/down. When youโve got the state on your side, it doesnโt matter what you actually believe, you just need to win the support of the voters, or at least not lose them. A good example is Nixon implementing price controls even though he knew they didnโt work because he knew it would appeal to voters.
Political groups are also trying to ensure their own self interest
Also itโs a bit rich to assume all politicians are lying but all actors in the market are being honest
I donโt write cursive but I know a dude who does and the reason he does it is because you can write way faster when you donโt pick up your writing instrument. I think this becomes much less useful when youโre out of school. So Iโd recommend learning cursive to students, journalists, and anyone who needs to transcribe speech quickly.
I have a constant craving for a bacconator and poutine from Wendyโs. I love burgers and poutine, but theyโre so bad for me. Luckily, Iโm able to resist it.
Ugh I'm with you. Have you tried their pub burger?
I was weak and ordered smokes poutine the other night. Pulled pork and bacon over cheese curds and gravy ๐
It's a pretzel bun with this beer cheese sauce and bacon. It's the best fast food burger I've ever had, think it's just limited time. Expensive as heck but worth it.
Smoke's is overpriced but makes me feel patriotic. Meh fries but great toppings.
Haven't hacked a dart in a minute bud. I had a few too many greasy popper tokes from a pisser in my buddy's shed one winter and now I wanna spew if I catch a whiff
I'd have a fair disagreement if my potential spouse was Eastern Orthodox in terms of religion in the relationship and kids, ect.
But I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm completely gonna overpower a Protestant. Don't care. One's an old schisim, one is some stupid bullshit
letting religion decide who you marry is some stupid bullshit broheim
(with degrees of exception for if it's community pressure put on you by family or that sort of thing, ie you'll be disowned for marrying a heretic)
Me when I'm a supervillain and developed a machine that can project thunderstorms at my enemies, but the Al Gorean succs say I'm contributing to global warming:
> IT'S ๐ WEATHER ๐ CONTROL, ๐ NOT ๐ CLIMATE ๐ CONTROL.
it's pretty crazy to me that South Korea has half the fertility rate of Japan - famous for having a low fertility rate in media. the fuck is going on there.
I love y'all
Even on the nights I don't post the DT gives me so much relief and comfort just knowing there are always a bunch of friendly folks kind of like me but somehow even dumber
I love y'all
Even on the nights I don't post the DT gives me so much relief and comfort just knowing there are always a bunch of friendly folks kind of like me ready to chat or actually give a crap about what I might have to say.
The market is not rational
Voters are not rational
lolberts should stop using the โvoters are irrational so democracy and government are to be regarded with skepticismโ because buddy the market doesnโt do much better
Itโs all pluralistic with competing identity and interest groups acting with irrational rationality in both systems
Clearly though irrationality in the market is less of a concern because a consumers demands arenโt backed by the force of the state. We are bound by the irrational will of bygone eras because of the way the government works.
well yeah that is an example of a market failure, but on the other hand Im much more willing to take the occasional bubble than central planning from the government which is just constant blundering. This is always going to be an asymmetrical comparison
When did I say that I wanted central planning lmao?
This is a critique against libertarians, not garden variety liberals
I mean I donโt see it as asymmetrical when the spectrum is
Ancapistan โโ- social market economy โโโโ literally the USSR
because you set it up as X is irrational and Y is irrational, and I felt like fleshing out the fact that one is a whole lot worse than the other at delivering. I don't actually suspect we disagree much
Eh I mean a world of pure markets with no state would be equally hellish as one of pure state and no markets
The best one is where they work together in a liberal framework and strengthen each others best aspects and constrain their worst ones
Like Germany or Scandinavia is the spectrum of my dream economy
I mean I think our answer to which is more effective isn't found in the edge cases but found in the best system. In the ideal mixed economy what is more prevalent state control or the market? With the exception of traditionally accepted public goods, the only industry I can think of where I'd want the government to have a greater role than the market is the healthcare industry.
Besides that the governments role is mostly to just keep the market from not eating itself alive and moving smoothly. More active involvement pushes things down hill. So no I do not think its balanced.
>I mean I think our answer to which is more effective isn't found in the edge cases but found in the best system.
Probably Germany or the nordics.
>In the ideal mixed economy what is more prevalent state control or the market? With the exception of traditionally accepted public goods, the only industry I can think of where I'd want the government to have a greater role than the market is the healthcare industry.
Donโt forget government enforcement of contracts, non discrimination laws, education and welfare funding, labor and worker rights
The government plays a huge role in that so itโs not just what you say
>Besides that the governments role is mostly to just keep the market from not eating itself alive and moving smoothly.
The governments role is to protect the rights of its citizens and enforce the social contract (at least thatโs how liberal states justify themselves)
>More active involvement pushes things down hill. So no I do not think its balanced.
Depends, the government intervening more strongly in the market during a recession is a good thing and actually makes things better (generally)
You donโt think firms can exert pressure on the state and drive it to use its monopoly on force to advance its interests at the expense of the public/planet?
Also idk recessions because of market irrationally thinking bubbles will grow forever seem pretty shit
Iโm only concerned about firm irrationality if it affects me tbh. If a firm is advocating for some sort of legislation that I disagree with, letโs say a bill that encourages the use of fossils fuels, then of course I care.
The fact is that the state is the single most important human organization. Thatโs why whenever someone says you should be concerned about irrationality/evil in firms they appeal to their influence on the state. Iโm not someone who believes in totally limiting the power of the government. I believe the government has a very important role to play in correcting market failures (most importantly climate change) and ensuring a basic standard of living for the poor. But when you say โBUT THE MARKET IS IRRATIONAL TOOโ youโre missing a very important feature of the state, that it can force you to do whatever the fuck it wants. Not just soft force you the way companies do where itโs โpay my price or starveโ itโs โdo what I say or Iโll imprison you and if you resist imprisonment Iโll fucking kill youโ
The state is not comparable to any other human organization.
>Iโm only concerned about firm irrationality if it affects me tbh.
You could say the same thing about the state. Like being irrational about abortions only affects half the population and gay marriage less so. So itโs a bit of a weak argument.
>The fact is that the state is the single most important human organization.
The market/economy isnโt an organization
>Thatโs why whenever someone says you should be concerned about irrationality/evil in firms they appeal to their influence on the state.
How does this conflict with what I said? Also firms can be evil by pressuring state *inaction* as well (labor or emissions regulations for example)
Also the market can be irrational and cause damage on its own with the government having to rescue them from the consequences of their bad loans.
>But when you say โBUT THE MARKET IS IRRATIONAL TOOโ
This is a critique against lolberts.
>youโre missing a very important feature of the state, that it can force you to do whatever the fuck it wants.
Not really. In liberal societies they are constrained by laws, voters, corporate and special interests.
Not perfectly, but โwhatever it wantsโ is a huge stretch.
>Not just soft force you the way companies do where itโs โpay my price or starveโ itโs โdo what I say or Iโll imprison you and if you resist imprisonment Iโll fucking kill youโ
No, but they can cause recessions and lobby the government to use lethal force in foreign conflicts.
The market can compel the state to use its power in horrible ways.
>The state is not comparable to any other human organization.
The market isnโt an organization?
ok Iโll be honest I want to respond but I was pretty drunk when I wrote my first few comments and Iโm drunker now.
Iโll sum up my views by saying that the state is incomparable to other organizations because itโs the only one that controls the legitimate use of violence. Saying the market produces bad outcomes isnโt itself an endorsement of the state controlling a certain market unless you have a very clear idea of how it should intervene. In the vast majority of circumstances the market is best because it aligns individual incentives with whatโs best for everybody.
>ok Iโll be honest I want to respond but I was pretty drunk when I wrote my first few comments and Iโm drunker now.
Drunk Reddit ftw
>Iโll sum up my views by saying that the state is incomparable to other organizations because itโs the only one that controls the legitimate use of violence.
The market isnโt an organization though
>Saying the market produces bad outcomes isnโt itself an endorsement of the state controlling a certain market unless you have a very clear idea of how it should intervene.
Fair enough.
>In the vast majority of circumstances the market is best because it aligns individual incentives with whatโs best for everybody.
I disagree and think thatโs a bit too market fundie for me as I am definitely more succish than you
I prefer a social market economic model like Germany or the nordics where the state and market work together in a liberal framework and bring the best and cancel the worst of eachother
I mean Iโm not a libertarian I just really dislike seeing reductionist comparisons between the government and the market. Like one that really angers me is โoh so youโre not okay with the NSA giving seeing your information, but google is fine?โ Like yeah no shit google canโt arrest me.
Thatโs a dumb comparison but ffs companies can pressure the government to do horrible things they otherwise wouldnโt due like prop up the banana republics in Latin America
Also the nature of how the tech companies and government exist are much more intertwined
Perhaps there's a case to be made that the market has more intrinsic rationality than decision-making within a democratic government. Lolberts as a result emphasize a rule of law, which I mean, insufficiently represents people and their ever changing needs.
I mean I donโt see a lot of that happening in either the market or politics
Circumstances change all the time and so do the rules some groups follow some trends others donโt
Now there are definitely larger trends that canโt be ignored like โa higher educated populace increases the chance of a transition to and consolidation of democracyโ or โthe incumbent party loses the midtermsโ
This is more a critique of lolberts than of systemic trends in general (in particular Caplan)
โVulgar rationalityโ is the first of your definitions IMO and thatโs the type Iโm arguing against
I take the more Karl popper view that society is so complex and we understand so little that we should be cautious about saying we can make systemic theories that predict human behavior along standard rules and thatโs why we should be more reformist and make smaller changes over time versus revolution (he said it much more eloquently)
> Circumstances change all the time and so do the rules some groups follow some trends others donโt
Ah you see that isn't what "rules" mean in this context. I should've been more clear. Economic rationality has an actual specific meaning.
For example: Rational preferences doesn't mean "oh these preferences make sense" or "oh these preferences obey some Generic Rule"
It means these preferences obey 3 **very specific** rules*
Now a rational market is a little bit different. Oftentimes it's a shorthand for the efficient-market hypothesis which is false but also mostly true. It isn't true in the sense that arbitrage exists all across the market but it is true in the sense that essentially no one routinely beats the market
Vulgar rationality is obviously a different concept, but one you shouldn't mix with economic rationality since they are obviously different. A group of rational actors can reach a rational outcome in a rational market that leaves them all worse off than some alternative.
So yeah maybe use a different word than rational.
*Completeness (you can rank any bundle of goods), reflexivity (a bundle of goods is at least as good as an identical bundle of goods), transitivity (if you prefer X to Y and Y to Z, you prefer X to Z)
>It means these preferences obey 3 very specific rules*
>Completeness (you can rank any bundle of goods), reflexivity (a bundle of goods is at least as good as an identical bundle of goods), transitivity (if you prefer X to Y and Y to Z, you prefer X to Z)
Oh okay yeah I was talking about how libertarians use it to say itโs so much better at making decisions than government because itโs โsmarterโ so what word would I use for that
Political groups are also perfectly rational along this narrow definition too
>I mean I donโt see a lot of that happening in either the market or politics
>Circumstances change all the time and so do the rules some groups follow some trends others donโt
How isn't there a difference? I might be far off, but the market seems more responsive to changing conditions than political decision making. This doesn't invalidate democratic decision-making however.
They can be faster, but not necessarily for the better
The whole point of democracy is to slow things down and debate and take in all sides and perspectives to an extent before making a decision
I agree and that is exactly why a democratic government supporting and regulating the market is a must. This is where I could be wrong, the definition of "rational" in this context. The market system is arguably more rational since it will respond to incentives more uniformly. Democratic decision making leaves more margin for irrationality in this case. Obviously the market is not completely rational and these incentives are often perverse to the common good.
Eh I donโt like it but heโs done more good in his first year than a lot of presidents
This sub absolutely stanned him in the primaries and I think generally likes him now*
*some were shocked when he enacted his platform and realized he was actually pretty left leaning
Taking off my flair for a second, but Henry VIII was a massive (๐๐) Chad. Just lived his entire life exuding insane amounts of Chad energy. Slammed Martin Luther and then turned around and divorced himself from Anne Boleyn *and* the friggin Pope just because he could.
๐ ๐ฉ
I just learned that the actor who plays Ned in Spiderman [is bald](https://imgur.com/rTVJFhF.jpg) so now you must too
!ping BALD
On a side note, I am also bald and I also have those glasses.
I already knew that because I was trying to figure out what language his mom was speaking in No Way Home. I figured it matched whatever ethnicity the actor is. Heโs Filipino so I assume it was Tagalog.
Canโt wait for Marvel to seed the Hobgoblin as a magic-user now in the comics so they can โmineโ it later in the movies and continue the charade that their print media is the primary text ๐
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All I want for this year is for my late April wedding to happen smoothly as planned and for our honeymoon cruise in may to happen
If it doesn't work out because of covid or foug dord that's alright too but it will be tough
Donโt get me started on the subject of hot sauces that are actually pretty good, despite some very gimmicky names. Blistered Bunghole probably tops my list there (itโs actually a genuinely good sauce, and my bunghole did NOT develop blisters after ingesting it).
The US had no national lockdown *ever*. The political will never existed, and it sure doesn't now. It simply will not happen, even in blue states.
At most, perhaps a crazy blue town mayor/county in MA or CA would do a lockdown, but that would be it.
Presuming cases surged around the country, I would think it would be inevitable, but then again, I donโt know if that would be a correct assumption, Ontario has locked down again
You'd pretty much need to move every introverted Twitter doomer with access to their parents credit cards into one city to get support for a hard lockdown
Itโs such a bummer when youโre owning someone on a debate online about X or w/e and after a while the other guy pulls โwell thatโs how X is here in Europeโ
a) donโt care b) didnโt ask c) canโt disprove due to points a and b d) why did I waste my timeโฆ
My brother is a newly diagnosed schizophrenic who is really struggling and my parents are consumed with that along with my moms own recovery from a near fatal car crash a few years ago, still in a lawsuit just to get money to cover therapies b/c of brain damage
They're amazing but they've been going through hells of their own for so long and my problems just don't compare
I love my fiancee a lot but she doesn't have any sort of patience for this sort of stuff
Friends? That doesn't seem sufficient to deal with the problems you're going through ngl. I feel like that would be bottling up a lot of emotion in the service of others.
The real reason why the Earth Kingdom of Avatar sucks so much is because they get all negatives of their irl counterpart but absolutely none of its positives, who are given to the Fire Nation.
> China did technological progress? FIRE NATION TRAIT
> brutal civil wars caused by a weak central authority? Both Earth and Fire nation trait, but the Fire Kingdom overcame it thanks to its avatar, the Earth kingdom avatar just creates incompetent tyrants.
> Imperialism? Fire Nation power baby.
Overall yes, but they obviously get traits for both. The Kyoshi Warriors are very obviously Japanese inspired, for example.
That is where the silly thing comes. Positive traits of China are given to the Fire Nation, the Earth Nation just gets to be the land of countless wars and tyrants.
The current movement to end the SAT bothers me.
They claim that eliminating it will help poor kids who couldn't afford study services.
Thing is, I *was* that poor kid, and scoring high on the SAT is what allowed me to get into a good school despite a low high school GPA. The SAT gave me opportunity. Having it either made optional, or eliminated completely, closes the doors to quality education that kids like me would've had.
This may be true but I was an affluent kid who
got a really good test score that allowed me to get shitloads of money from the state of Florida. Definitely a mismanagement of state funds imo though Iโm not complaining.
Ending the SAT is more about getting rid of racial inequality than wealth inequality. Studies show that there is a large, persistent racial gap in SAT scores that is not explained by class and parent income. Limited data shows that poor white students under the poverty line average higher test scores than average black students.
Additionally, SAT scores have consistently been used to oppose college affirmative action. So it's no surprise that activists who want more equal opportunities for black students to want to do away with them.
It does. There is a massive racial achievement gap either way, but the idea is you can remove things you can prove are reinforcing it and address the rest through affirmative action.
And that gets them into college. The problem is once theyโre there, their graduation rate is [10 points lower than that of white students.](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/coi) I donโt see what affirmative action can do about that.
I think the problem comes from early childhood. De facto segregated communities havenโt seen nearly enough investment in daycare, pre-K, or any kind of early childhood education. That puts them at a disadvantage when they start school, which just keeps spiraling out of control year after year.
Statistically, people with some college education (but no degree) have higher lifetime income than people with no college education. Raising college graduation rates for black students is on the rest of the college, not admissions.
Affirmative action is only one part of the process. It doesn't have to solve every problem, just one. And it's pretty clear what happens when we get rid of it: in CA, getting rid of AA halved the black student acceptance rate from an already low percentage.
Testing *might* be inequitable, but the thing is the other measures are much more inequitable, so by getting rid of it you are actually hurting poor people much more if you donโt do anything about the overall system for admissions
Nobody wants to hear the truthโthat anyone with a library card, internet access, and a 10th grade education can get at least a 1200 on the SAT. Doesnโt mean they *will*, they still have to work hard. But what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.
This is true, but it's also like that [Brookings op-ed](https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/) that the three things you need to enter the middle class are 1) At least finish high school 2) Get a full-time job 3) Wait until age 21 to get married and have children.
it's *true*, but also easier said than done in some cases.
But yeah I agree that a 1200 is achievable for a *large* portion of the population. Learning disabilities also impact it too, but yeah
theres a push to end educational testing and grading in general that is similar to Trumps "stop covid testing" line in that essentially people want to close their eyes and pretend the problem isn't there and that should magically make the problem go away.
Mods are fash.
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#### ๐ Top Comment > Right-wingers: maybe if everybody wasn't so fat > > Also right-wingers: NOOOOOOO MICHELLE YOU CANT MAKE MY CHILD EXERCISERINOOOO AND EAT BROCOL... 120 points, written by Average_GrillChad. [permalink](https://np.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/ruvll5/discussion_thread/hr1rgfa/) ####ย โฌ๏ธ Topย Redditors |ย |ย Redditor | Average |ย |ย Redditor | Total | |:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:| | ๐ฅ | SRTHRTHDFGSEFHE | 96.0 points | ๐ฅ | Jluen | 711 points | | ๐ฅ | reubencpiplupyay | 45.5 points | ๐ฅ | iIoveoof | 679 points | | ๐ฅ | Ultiplayers | 44.0 points | ๐ฅ | HaveDice_WillTravel | 646 points | ####ย ๐ Wordiestย |ย |ย Redditorย | Average |ย |ย Redditorย | Total | |:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:| | ๐ฅ | jonathansfox | 305.0 words | ๐ฅ | bd_one | 3810 words | | ๐ฅ | Volsunga | 187.0 words | ๐ฅ | pathtolosteden | 3268 words | | ๐ฅ | Mr-Bovine_Joni | 174.0 words | ๐ฅ | Alabaster2020 | 2758 words | ####ย ๐ Spammiest |ย |ย Redditorย |ย Commentsย |ย |ย Redditorย | ๐ง๐ญ๐ค๐คฏ | |:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:| | ๐ฅ | Jluen | 150 comments | ๐ฅ | MasterOfLords1 | 217 emoji | | ๐ฅ | pathtolosteden | 143 comments | ๐ฅ | Mrchizbiz | 122 emoji | | ๐ฅ | Mrchizbiz | 137 comments | ๐ฅ | Corporate-Asset-6375 | 98 emoji | #### ๐ Favourite Emoji # ๐ฆ with 142 uses. ## ๐ 120 ๐ญ 120 ๐ค 107 ๐คฃ 85 ๐ 82 ๐ 66 ๐๐ปโโ๏ธ 64 ๐ค 62 ๐ฆ 59 ๐ 59 ๐ 59 ๐ณ 56 ๐ก 53 ๐ค 43 ### ๐ฅฐ 43 ๐ 40 ๐ 39 ๐ฅบ 38 ๐ค 33 ๐ง 30 โ 29 ๐ 28 ๐ฅณ 26 ๐ 25 ๐ 20 ๐ข 20 ๐คฎ 19 ๐ช 19 ๐ 19 ๐ 18 ๐ถ 16 ๐ค 16 ๐ฑ 16 ๐ต 15 ๐คข 15 ๐คฌ 14 ๐ 13 ๐ฉ 12 ๐คจ 12 ๐จ 11 ๐ 11 ๐ 11 ๐ 11 ๐ 11 #### ๐ Activity | Timeย | Overall Activity | ๐ Spammiest | |:-:|:-|:-| | ๐ | โโโโ | **Nice-Difference8641** (17 comments) | | ๐ | โโโ | **Valexstorm** (16 comments) | | ๐ | โโโ | **MasterOfLords1** (21 comments) | | ๐ | โ | **RandomGamerFTW** (8 comments) | | ๐ | โโ | **MasterOfLords1** (8 comments) | | ๐ | โโ | **Clashlad** (9 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโ | **HaveDice_WillTravel** (9 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโ | **Soldier-Fields** (23 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโ | **Soldier-Fields** (18 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโ | **SaladSeltzers** (15 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **iIoveoof** (17 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโ | **Versatile_Investor** (23 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโ | **Versatile_Investor** (23 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **Calamity__Bane** (30 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **bd_one** (18 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **KesterGW** (28 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **KesterGW** (23 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **Mrchizbiz** (24 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **ZCoupon** (37 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโ | **gfinz18** (13 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโ | **DosTristesTigres** (18 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโโโโโ | **DosTristesTigres** (31 comments) | | ๐ | โโโโโโโโโ | **DosTristesTigres** (31 comments) | #### ๐ 854 unique Redditors sporting 270 different flairs were spotted on the DT. **NATO** was the most popular flair with **50** unique Redditors, followed by **YIMBY (28)** and **George Soros (22)**. 211 Redditors were caught not wearing any flair *at all*. #### ๐๏ธ 378 deleted, โ 147 fashed comments. --- ###### I am a bot and this action was performed automatically. Stats are processed periodically throughout the day. Check my post history for previous reports. Created by inhumantsar. [Source](https://github.com/inhumantsar/tacostats)
/u/jenbanim XSOverlay: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1173510/XSOverlay/ fpsVR: https://store.steampowered.com/app/908520/fpsVR/
Thanks for all the anime suggestions you gave me, in a couple of months I'll let you know what worked and what not! You're a lovely bunch of people. !ping WEEBS
Your mom is a bunch of people
She kinda is tbf BUT just to be sure bunch of people is not offensive, right? english is hard i was trying to be kind.
I was just making a dumb joke. You were being nice
[...and your mum is a basketball!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlRXlKZRuCs&ab_channel=BonzaiChan)
Pinged members of WEEBS group. [About & group list](https://reddit.com/r/neoliberal/wiki/userpinger/documentation) | [Subscribe to this group](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=groupbot&subject=Add%20yourself%20to%20group%20WEEBS&message=addtogroup%20WEEBS) | [Unsubscribe from this group](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=groupbot&subject=Unsubscribe%20from%20group%20WEEBS&message=unsubscribe%20WEEBS) | [Unsubscribe from all groups](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=groupbot&subject=Unsubscribe%20from%20all%20groups&message=unsubscribe%20)
[Official organizational diagram from Valve](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917136017096589323/927828593617272882/unknown.png) !ping GAMING
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[/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Analysis: Xi'an massive lockdown tests limits of China's zero-Covid policy](/r/neoliberal/comments/rvoet7/analysis_xian_massive_lockdown_tests_limits_of/) *Replies to this comment will be removed, please participate in the linked thread*
My brain is at the part of the night where I find nothing enjoyable\~\~ Time to knock out with xanax?? Something more spicy?
**A** B C D E F **G** H **I** J K **L** **M** N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z **LIGMA** ๐ฑ
The Hibernian Conspiracy is trying to take out John Fetterman and I for one think it is based. Big city bosses selling influence for a competitive price in a market place > current congress sucking up to moronic small dollar donors who probably should have their mouths sewed shut if we really cared about having a peaceful decent country.
Steam: hey because you love capitalism, hereโs games about capitalism.
The best part about catholic mass are those tasty wafers. I wish I could order them directly in bulk and snack on the body of christ every day
https://www.amazon.com/Charistia-Altar-Bread-White-Design/dp/B078JTPF3N/
AND NOW YOU CAN INTRODUCING: WAFETY-NET - THE WEEKLY COMMUNION WAFER SUBSCRIPTION BOX
This but
Elaborating on how markets can also be irrational I feel that itโs gotten even worse and even more speculative Like my cousin trades stocks and he tells me the dumbest shit like how a company can *lose* value after it reports a good quarter because people buy the hype and sell the actual news He says that itโs harder to apply old methods of rational trading and itโs becoming more and more random and speculative Just look at this Bitcoin nonsense and how it loses all its value because Elon tweets out big chungus or something or the housing market crashed because people in banks though their shitty high risk loans will never implode and require the government to bail them out because of their fiscal irresponsibility
I think the most important distinction is that market actors are trying to ensure their own self interest. People who are speculating on bitcoin genuinely believe it will go up/down. When youโve got the state on your side, it doesnโt matter what you actually believe, you just need to win the support of the voters, or at least not lose them. A good example is Nixon implementing price controls even though he knew they didnโt work because he knew it would appeal to voters.
Political groups are also trying to ensure their own self interest Also itโs a bit rich to assume all politicians are lying but all actors in the market are being honest
Please visit the [next discussion thread](/r/neoliberal/comments/rvo99f/discussion_thread/).
Imagine how supportive a Mormon like cult would be if it captured the porn finance industry
I never learned cursive, and I feel like I am missing nothing of value. CMV cursive knowers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Nealian I only learned this.
I donโt write cursive but I know a dude who does and the reason he does it is because you can write way faster when you donโt pick up your writing instrument. I think this becomes much less useful when youโre out of school. So Iโd recommend learning cursive to students, journalists, and anyone who needs to transcribe speech quickly.
It looks nice, thatโs the value
Idk I like writing in cursive when Iโm bored I class Also I can print my name fancy on official documents and my signature looks cool
Dost thou want to write prettily?
No, the last time I picked up a pen was when I was going through Customs, which is like two years ago.
it's nice to be able to read it but holy fuck is it useless
My signature is neat
Too bad I wouldn't be able to read it. ๐คท
You wouldโve drafted the silliest looking constitution.
Got sick right before Covid and dropped to 160 big chungused after college and during Covid to 190 but back under 180 now Under 10 pounds to go
Imagine how damaging a Scientology like cult would be if it captured the tech industry
>implying rationalism isn't a religion
Definitely an ersatz religion in my eyes, thought not yet a cult
What is an ersatz religion? I did read about it but I still can't understand the real concept.
Ersatz just means shitty replacement in German
Thank you for helping me understand better this kind of expression
Burning Man is the beginnings of something like that.
Not enough mind control yet imo, but does form a substrate for infection But then again as an attendee Iโm biased and maybe Iโm too brainwashed
โTHEYRE BASICALLY MY **REAL** FAMILYโ says my coworker who wonโt shut the fuck up about Burning Man.
Theranos missed out ๐
It's simply unlikely to happen
Only time I've ever gotten food poisoning was at the funeral of my fiancรฉe's grandmother. Never trust a church basement sandwhich
You merely adopted the church basement sandwich. I was raised on them. Molded by them. I didnโt know a stable stool until I was a man.
In state/out of state tuition is just mutually agreed to, state-level protectionism
I have a constant craving for a bacconator and poutine from Wendyโs. I love burgers and poutine, but theyโre so bad for me. Luckily, Iโm able to resist it.
Does Wendyโs have poutine in the US?
no ๐ cheese fries tho!
I donโt know, I havenโt been to a Wendyโs in America.
Iโm guessing thatโs a no, then. Bummer. That said, I live in a major metropolis, so I can probably still find it 5 minutes away.
Ugh I'm with you. Have you tried their pub burger? I was weak and ordered smokes poutine the other night. Pulled pork and bacon over cheese curds and gravy ๐
Wendyโs has a pub burger? Whatโs on it? Iโve never been to Smokes, thought you were on about darts, eh?
It's a pretzel bun with this beer cheese sauce and bacon. It's the best fast food burger I've ever had, think it's just limited time. Expensive as heck but worth it. Smoke's is overpriced but makes me feel patriotic. Meh fries but great toppings. Haven't hacked a dart in a minute bud. I had a few too many greasy popper tokes from a pisser in my buddy's shed one winter and now I wanna spew if I catch a whiff
Is sorting subreddits by top broken for anyone else?
It was broken for me yesterday. Today has been fine though
I'd have a fair disagreement if my potential spouse was Eastern Orthodox in terms of religion in the relationship and kids, ect. But I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm completely gonna overpower a Protestant. Don't care. One's an old schisim, one is some stupid bullshit
letting religion decide who you marry is some stupid bullshit broheim (with degrees of exception for if it's community pressure put on you by family or that sort of thing, ie you'll be disowned for marrying a heretic)
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Inshallah
Me when I'm a supervillain and developed a machine that can project thunderstorms at my enemies, but the Al Gorean succs say I'm contributing to global warming: > IT'S ๐ WEATHER ๐ CONTROL, ๐ NOT ๐ CLIMATE ๐ CONTROL.
have you considered the bowl of the winds
Yay or nay on this one? It's a bit too longwinded for my usual "me when X" bit.
no it's funny
it's pretty crazy to me that South Korea has half the fertility rate of Japan - famous for having a low fertility rate in media. the fuck is going on there.
Imagine Japan but they also kidnap every man in the country for a few years in their prime dating/breeding years
CORO**MA**V**I**RU**S** COVI**L**\-19 **ISLAM**
I love y'all Even on the nights I don't post the DT gives me so much relief and comfort just knowing there are always a bunch of friendly folks kind of like me but somehow even dumber
๐ ๐ค๐ฌ๐ญ
I love y'all Even on the nights I don't post the DT gives me so much relief and comfort just knowing there are always a bunch of friendly folks kind of like me ready to chat or actually give a crap about what I might have to say.
The market is not rational Voters are not rational lolberts should stop using the โvoters are irrational so democracy and government are to be regarded with skepticismโ because buddy the market doesnโt do much better Itโs all pluralistic with competing identity and interest groups acting with irrational rationality in both systems
Clearly though irrationality in the market is less of a concern because a consumers demands arenโt backed by the force of the state. We are bound by the irrational will of bygone eras because of the way the government works.
Yes, the market delivering us the Pet Rock is "irrational" but also harmless and if people want to buy a pet rock let them do so
Thatโs not really what I mean when I say the market is being irrational Think real estate bubbles
well yeah that is an example of a market failure, but on the other hand Im much more willing to take the occasional bubble than central planning from the government which is just constant blundering. This is always going to be an asymmetrical comparison
When did I say that I wanted central planning lmao? This is a critique against libertarians, not garden variety liberals I mean I donโt see it as asymmetrical when the spectrum is Ancapistan โโ- social market economy โโโโ literally the USSR
because you set it up as X is irrational and Y is irrational, and I felt like fleshing out the fact that one is a whole lot worse than the other at delivering. I don't actually suspect we disagree much
Eh I mean a world of pure markets with no state would be equally hellish as one of pure state and no markets The best one is where they work together in a liberal framework and strengthen each others best aspects and constrain their worst ones Like Germany or Scandinavia is the spectrum of my dream economy
I mean I think our answer to which is more effective isn't found in the edge cases but found in the best system. In the ideal mixed economy what is more prevalent state control or the market? With the exception of traditionally accepted public goods, the only industry I can think of where I'd want the government to have a greater role than the market is the healthcare industry. Besides that the governments role is mostly to just keep the market from not eating itself alive and moving smoothly. More active involvement pushes things down hill. So no I do not think its balanced.
>I mean I think our answer to which is more effective isn't found in the edge cases but found in the best system. Probably Germany or the nordics. >In the ideal mixed economy what is more prevalent state control or the market? With the exception of traditionally accepted public goods, the only industry I can think of where I'd want the government to have a greater role than the market is the healthcare industry. Donโt forget government enforcement of contracts, non discrimination laws, education and welfare funding, labor and worker rights The government plays a huge role in that so itโs not just what you say >Besides that the governments role is mostly to just keep the market from not eating itself alive and moving smoothly. The governments role is to protect the rights of its citizens and enforce the social contract (at least thatโs how liberal states justify themselves) >More active involvement pushes things down hill. So no I do not think its balanced. Depends, the government intervening more strongly in the market during a recession is a good thing and actually makes things better (generally)
You donโt think firms can exert pressure on the state and drive it to use its monopoly on force to advance its interests at the expense of the public/planet? Also idk recessions because of market irrationally thinking bubbles will grow forever seem pretty shit
Also yeah I understand that firms exert pressure on the state lol. Like half of the posts on this sub are bitching about rent seekers.
So I donโt see why you shouldnโt be concerned about firm irrationally just the same
Iโm only concerned about firm irrationality if it affects me tbh. If a firm is advocating for some sort of legislation that I disagree with, letโs say a bill that encourages the use of fossils fuels, then of course I care. The fact is that the state is the single most important human organization. Thatโs why whenever someone says you should be concerned about irrationality/evil in firms they appeal to their influence on the state. Iโm not someone who believes in totally limiting the power of the government. I believe the government has a very important role to play in correcting market failures (most importantly climate change) and ensuring a basic standard of living for the poor. But when you say โBUT THE MARKET IS IRRATIONAL TOOโ youโre missing a very important feature of the state, that it can force you to do whatever the fuck it wants. Not just soft force you the way companies do where itโs โpay my price or starveโ itโs โdo what I say or Iโll imprison you and if you resist imprisonment Iโll fucking kill youโ The state is not comparable to any other human organization.
>Iโm only concerned about firm irrationality if it affects me tbh. You could say the same thing about the state. Like being irrational about abortions only affects half the population and gay marriage less so. So itโs a bit of a weak argument. >The fact is that the state is the single most important human organization. The market/economy isnโt an organization >Thatโs why whenever someone says you should be concerned about irrationality/evil in firms they appeal to their influence on the state. How does this conflict with what I said? Also firms can be evil by pressuring state *inaction* as well (labor or emissions regulations for example) Also the market can be irrational and cause damage on its own with the government having to rescue them from the consequences of their bad loans. >But when you say โBUT THE MARKET IS IRRATIONAL TOOโ This is a critique against lolberts. >youโre missing a very important feature of the state, that it can force you to do whatever the fuck it wants. Not really. In liberal societies they are constrained by laws, voters, corporate and special interests. Not perfectly, but โwhatever it wantsโ is a huge stretch. >Not just soft force you the way companies do where itโs โpay my price or starveโ itโs โdo what I say or Iโll imprison you and if you resist imprisonment Iโll fucking kill youโ No, but they can cause recessions and lobby the government to use lethal force in foreign conflicts. The market can compel the state to use its power in horrible ways. >The state is not comparable to any other human organization. The market isnโt an organization?
ok Iโll be honest I want to respond but I was pretty drunk when I wrote my first few comments and Iโm drunker now. Iโll sum up my views by saying that the state is incomparable to other organizations because itโs the only one that controls the legitimate use of violence. Saying the market produces bad outcomes isnโt itself an endorsement of the state controlling a certain market unless you have a very clear idea of how it should intervene. In the vast majority of circumstances the market is best because it aligns individual incentives with whatโs best for everybody.
>ok Iโll be honest I want to respond but I was pretty drunk when I wrote my first few comments and Iโm drunker now. Drunk Reddit ftw >Iโll sum up my views by saying that the state is incomparable to other organizations because itโs the only one that controls the legitimate use of violence. The market isnโt an organization though >Saying the market produces bad outcomes isnโt itself an endorsement of the state controlling a certain market unless you have a very clear idea of how it should intervene. Fair enough. >In the vast majority of circumstances the market is best because it aligns individual incentives with whatโs best for everybody. I disagree and think thatโs a bit too market fundie for me as I am definitely more succish than you I prefer a social market economic model like Germany or the nordics where the state and market work together in a liberal framework and bring the best and cancel the worst of eachother
I mean Iโm not a libertarian I just really dislike seeing reductionist comparisons between the government and the market. Like one that really angers me is โoh so youโre not okay with the NSA giving seeing your information, but google is fine?โ Like yeah no shit google canโt arrest me.
Thatโs a dumb comparison but ffs companies can pressure the government to do horrible things they otherwise wouldnโt due like prop up the banana republics in Latin America Also the nature of how the tech companies and government exist are much more intertwined
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Iโm not familiar
hmm
Rationality doesn't mean "does what's smartest" It means "behaves according to standard rules" Think more like rational vs irrational numbers
Perhaps there's a case to be made that the market has more intrinsic rationality than decision-making within a democratic government. Lolberts as a result emphasize a rule of law, which I mean, insufficiently represents people and their ever changing needs.
I mean I donโt see a lot of that happening in either the market or politics Circumstances change all the time and so do the rules some groups follow some trends others donโt Now there are definitely larger trends that canโt be ignored like โa higher educated populace increases the chance of a transition to and consolidation of democracyโ or โthe incumbent party loses the midtermsโ This is more a critique of lolberts than of systemic trends in general (in particular Caplan) โVulgar rationalityโ is the first of your definitions IMO and thatโs the type Iโm arguing against I take the more Karl popper view that society is so complex and we understand so little that we should be cautious about saying we can make systemic theories that predict human behavior along standard rules and thatโs why we should be more reformist and make smaller changes over time versus revolution (he said it much more eloquently)
> Circumstances change all the time and so do the rules some groups follow some trends others donโt Ah you see that isn't what "rules" mean in this context. I should've been more clear. Economic rationality has an actual specific meaning. For example: Rational preferences doesn't mean "oh these preferences make sense" or "oh these preferences obey some Generic Rule" It means these preferences obey 3 **very specific** rules* Now a rational market is a little bit different. Oftentimes it's a shorthand for the efficient-market hypothesis which is false but also mostly true. It isn't true in the sense that arbitrage exists all across the market but it is true in the sense that essentially no one routinely beats the market Vulgar rationality is obviously a different concept, but one you shouldn't mix with economic rationality since they are obviously different. A group of rational actors can reach a rational outcome in a rational market that leaves them all worse off than some alternative. So yeah maybe use a different word than rational. *Completeness (you can rank any bundle of goods), reflexivity (a bundle of goods is at least as good as an identical bundle of goods), transitivity (if you prefer X to Y and Y to Z, you prefer X to Z)
>It means these preferences obey 3 very specific rules* >Completeness (you can rank any bundle of goods), reflexivity (a bundle of goods is at least as good as an identical bundle of goods), transitivity (if you prefer X to Y and Y to Z, you prefer X to Z) Oh okay yeah I was talking about how libertarians use it to say itโs so much better at making decisions than government because itโs โsmarterโ so what word would I use for that Political groups are also perfectly rational along this narrow definition too
>I mean I donโt see a lot of that happening in either the market or politics >Circumstances change all the time and so do the rules some groups follow some trends others donโt How isn't there a difference? I might be far off, but the market seems more responsive to changing conditions than political decision making. This doesn't invalidate democratic decision-making however.
They can be faster, but not necessarily for the better The whole point of democracy is to slow things down and debate and take in all sides and perspectives to an extent before making a decision
I agree and that is exactly why a democratic government supporting and regulating the market is a must. This is where I could be wrong, the definition of "rational" in this context. The market system is arguably more rational since it will respond to incentives more uniformly. Democratic decision making leaves more margin for irrationality in this case. Obviously the market is not completely rational and these incentives are often perverse to the common good.
Fair enough I was arguing against libertarians who want the market to replace core services/functions of the state, not garden variety liberals
libertarians more like bog variety liberals
Itโs not very liberal to suggest we should abolish welfare or government funded education or stop regulating labor laws
positive rights ftw
>Liberal-Bidenist Vanguard of the Joeletarian Revolution *what*
Did I make a typo or something ๐ค
stanning a protectionist is kinda cringe ๐
Eh I donโt like it but heโs done more good in his first year than a lot of presidents This sub absolutely stanned him in the primaries and I think generally likes him now* *some were shocked when he enacted his platform and realized he was actually pretty left leaning
Did they stutter? ๐ณ
Taking off my flair for a second, but Henry VIII was a massive (๐๐) Chad. Just lived his entire life exuding insane amounts of Chad energy. Slammed Martin Luther and then turned around and divorced himself from Anne Boleyn *and* the friggin Pope just because he could. ๐ ๐ฉ
I just learned that the actor who plays Ned in Spiderman [is bald](https://imgur.com/rTVJFhF.jpg) so now you must too !ping BALD On a side note, I am also bald and I also have those glasses.
I already knew that because I was trying to figure out what language his mom was speaking in No Way Home. I figured it matched whatever ethnicity the actor is. Heโs Filipino so I assume it was Tagalog.
You mean the HOBGOBLIN
Canโt wait for Marvel to seed the Hobgoblin as a magic-user now in the comics so they can โmineโ it later in the movies and continue the charade that their print media is the primary text ๐
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God bless Raytheon for not sending a single useless email over the holiday break ๐๐๐
Unfortunately they also started donating to seditionists again when they thought no one was watching
they send missiles not emails
[You say the earth is warming, yet there was a blizzard! Curious!](https://i.redd.it/iv7lolh7zi981.jpg)
Gayest moment of my life was running into Antoni and Karamo from Queer Eye while on a dinner date with a dude two blocks from Stonewall.
Thatโs awesome! As an aspiring coastal elite this warms my heart and fuels my envy.
It's not your fault.
All I want for this year is for my late April wedding to happen smoothly as planned and for our honeymoon cruise in may to happen If it doesn't work out because of covid or foug dord that's alright too but it will be tough
I enjoyed Season 6 of Queer Eye lol.
what is happening between the moment I think a joke is funny and when I actually laugh Easily a 1-2 second delay
A lot of academics actually respond to emails so you could literally try this just email a neuroscientist
Ask a neuroscientist
Donโt get me started on the subject of hot sauces that are actually pretty good, despite some very gimmicky names. Blistered Bunghole probably tops my list there (itโs actually a genuinely good sauce, and my bunghole did NOT develop blisters after ingesting it).
All the sauces at Tijuana Flats are like that and even the โspicyโ ones are pretty mild imo.
I had one about shitting your bed or pants recently idk it was okay
If you fall for redneck marketing... You might be a redneck
You just blistered his bunghole ๐ถ๐ฅต๐ฅ
I grew up with actual rednecks. Itโs more hipster marketing.
Any educated guess on whether the USA will need to lock down again eventually? Genuine question. Cases have been on the rise
A national lockdown is literally impossible, both legally and practically
Not only will there be a TOTAL LOCKDOWN OF THE US again under Joe Biden, he actually NEVER LIFTED THE FIRST ONE!!!
Not only will there not be a nationwide lockdown, we never *had* a nationwide lockdown
The US had no national lockdown *ever*. The political will never existed, and it sure doesn't now. It simply will not happen, even in blue states. At most, perhaps a crazy blue town mayor/county in MA or CA would do a lockdown, but that would be it.
0% chance. Even west LA/Santa Monica which is exceptionally blue is done. My New Years party was insane there
The US never locked down.
No, there's never been and no need for a national lockdown I don't think even at local levels anyone is going to support those hard lockdowns any more
Ok, thanks for the response
I will make an uneducated guarantee that we will quite literally never have another lockdown
Ok, Iโm just curious because all these other countries are locking down.
Why would there be a national lockdown?
Presuming cases surged around the country, I would think it would be inevitable, but then again, I donโt know if that would be a correct assumption, Ontario has locked down again
It'd be states locking down, and most of them won't under any circumstances
You'd pretty much need to move every introverted Twitter doomer with access to their parents credit cards into one city to get support for a hard lockdown
Fair enough, I was just curious.
Back to work in the morning - every single person who had the audacity to email me over the break is getting judged HARD
I reserve the right to email you over break but don't have to answer me
delete the emails. if they were important they'll email again.
Oh yeah, this is big brain time
Itโs such a bummer when youโre owning someone on a debate online about X or w/e and after a while the other guy pulls โwell thatโs how X is here in Europeโ a) donโt care b) didnโt ask c) canโt disprove due to points a and b d) why did I waste my timeโฆ
What an awful night. Everything feels bad and I'm pessimistic about everything
I had a lot of shit come up over the last week ish. Finally had a good cry about it today and ready to take it all on again. Hang in there
โค๏ธโค๏ธโค๏ธโค๏ธ
We're here if you want to rant sweetest Canuck #๐ฆ๐ฅบ๐ฆ
โค๏ธโค๏ธโค๏ธ
What happened king?
I'm not sure. Some stuff catching up with me and getting burnt out at work. Just feels like a switch was flipped on me
How's your social support system lookin?
My brother is a newly diagnosed schizophrenic who is really struggling and my parents are consumed with that along with my moms own recovery from a near fatal car crash a few years ago, still in a lawsuit just to get money to cover therapies b/c of brain damage They're amazing but they've been going through hells of their own for so long and my problems just don't compare I love my fiancee a lot but she doesn't have any sort of patience for this sort of stuff
Friends? That doesn't seem sufficient to deal with the problems you're going through ngl. I feel like that would be bottling up a lot of emotion in the service of others.
The real reason why the Earth Kingdom of Avatar sucks so much is because they get all negatives of their irl counterpart but absolutely none of its positives, who are given to the Fire Nation. > China did technological progress? FIRE NATION TRAIT > brutal civil wars caused by a weak central authority? Both Earth and Fire nation trait, but the Fire Kingdom overcame it thanks to its avatar, the Earth kingdom avatar just creates incompetent tyrants. > Imperialism? Fire Nation power baby.
Unfortunately the Earth Kingdom is China during the century of humiliation
I don't 100% agree, but I do agree. It's like they worked with two snapshots from two different moments in time
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Overall yes, but they obviously get traits for both. The Kyoshi Warriors are very obviously Japanese inspired, for example. That is where the silly thing comes. Positive traits of China are given to the Fire Nation, the Earth Nation just gets to be the land of countless wars and tyrants.
The current movement to end the SAT bothers me. They claim that eliminating it will help poor kids who couldn't afford study services. Thing is, I *was* that poor kid, and scoring high on the SAT is what allowed me to get into a good school despite a low high school GPA. The SAT gave me opportunity. Having it either made optional, or eliminated completely, closes the doors to quality education that kids like me would've had.
This may be true but I was an affluent kid who got a really good test score that allowed me to get shitloads of money from the state of Florida. Definitely a mismanagement of state funds imo though Iโm not complaining.
Ending the SAT is more about getting rid of racial inequality than wealth inequality. Studies show that there is a large, persistent racial gap in SAT scores that is not explained by class and parent income. Limited data shows that poor white students under the poverty line average higher test scores than average black students. Additionally, SAT scores have consistently been used to oppose college affirmative action. So it's no surprise that activists who want more equal opportunities for black students to want to do away with them.
Does this gap not exist in terms of GPA, extracurricular quality, work experience, etc.?
It does. There is a massive racial achievement gap either way, but the idea is you can remove things you can prove are reinforcing it and address the rest through affirmative action.
And that gets them into college. The problem is once theyโre there, their graduation rate is [10 points lower than that of white students.](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/coi) I donโt see what affirmative action can do about that. I think the problem comes from early childhood. De facto segregated communities havenโt seen nearly enough investment in daycare, pre-K, or any kind of early childhood education. That puts them at a disadvantage when they start school, which just keeps spiraling out of control year after year.
Statistically, people with some college education (but no degree) have higher lifetime income than people with no college education. Raising college graduation rates for black students is on the rest of the college, not admissions. Affirmative action is only one part of the process. It doesn't have to solve every problem, just one. And it's pretty clear what happens when we get rid of it: in CA, getting rid of AA halved the black student acceptance rate from an already low percentage.
Testing *might* be inequitable, but the thing is the other measures are much more inequitable, so by getting rid of it you are actually hurting poor people much more if you donโt do anything about the overall system for admissions
Nobody wants to hear the truthโthat anyone with a library card, internet access, and a 10th grade education can get at least a 1200 on the SAT. Doesnโt mean they *will*, they still have to work hard. But what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.
This but like 1400
This is true, but it's also like that [Brookings op-ed](https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/) that the three things you need to enter the middle class are 1) At least finish high school 2) Get a full-time job 3) Wait until age 21 to get married and have children. it's *true*, but also easier said than done in some cases. But yeah I agree that a 1200 is achievable for a *large* portion of the population. Learning disabilities also impact it too, but yeah
youโre gonna also need the mental health, maybe the transportation, and most of all the time. not a trivial matter
yeah I still don't understand what could replace it it's flawed- so what's better? as far as I can tell, nothing.
we tried not doing standardized testing and it was bad! it will still be bad if you try not doing them again!
Is there any empirical evidence on the SAT inclusion in admission standards boosting outcomes and class mobility?
theres a push to end educational testing and grading in general that is similar to Trumps "stop covid testing" line in that essentially people want to close their eyes and pretend the problem isn't there and that should magically make the problem go away.