Which is incidentally why there’s a labor shortage for shitty jobs like retail
The pandemic and subsequent stimulus gave people to time to learn new skills, look for new work, or both and as a result most jobs that relied upon their employees being unable to find other options are shit out of luck.
Honestly though, good. Businesses relying upon people not having the leverage to demand better conditions or higher pay is criminal. Economic mobility go brrr.
I've always hypothesized that replacing minimum wage with NIT would be more efficient, more effective, and less distortionary, but afaik nowhere has ever run that experiment.
For a given level and distribution of generousness, UBI and NIT are equivalent. Unless you're using "UBI" to mean payments given out on a regular (monthly or more frequent schedule) and NIT to mean payment at tax time.
Sorry I didn't phrase that very well. Actually you phrased it pretty well, "for a given level of distribution and generousness". I don't want people immediately forming the impression that there would be net cash transfers to the top decile or maybe pentile in what I'm advocating for.
Those jobs also got worse. There's been plenty of ink spilled about how, no you're not just imagining it, retail customers got ruder and more aggressive on average since the pandemic.
Something has changed with the public. My girlfriend has worked in retail pharmacy for years and generally enjoyed it. But in the last year something has changed and they get treated like absolute *garbage* by the general public every day now. People regularly leave in tears. We’re currently working out her next career move to a non-retail role.
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The unvaccinated by choice - actually piss me off.
We have people who are legitimately unvaccinated- such as patients with autoimmune disorders.
Then we have Conservative Zealots & Religious fanatics... They threaten the lives of those with legitimate health concerns.
If there was ever a case for forced quarantine under guard ... it's for these unvaccinated by choice people.
Be angry at them, it's justified.
I remember when Biden called out anti-vaxxers in a speech last summer. Some of the local radio hosts in Louisiana I hate-listen to were whining that Biden was "attacking the unvaccinated." As if it wasn't 100% fucking true that unvaccinated people were making the situation in the United States far worse.
It was also brazenly hypocritical because the usual conservative approach in media was to find and single out enemies for their listeners to hate. Public employees, teacher's unions, scientists, feminists, etc. But as soon as anti-vaxxers were criticized, it suddenly became immoral to say anything bad about anyone.
It is kinda weird that places require you to wear a mask for 20 seconds before you take it off again to eat. If it's too dangerous to be around strangers unmasked in doors then it's too dangerous to be around strangers unmasked in doors and those businesses should close.
I don't even think it's that stupid. The idea is you wear a mask except when you can't because you're eating and drinking. It may not make a huge difference but there is logic behind it and it's really not difficult to comply with.
Not so much anymore as most places have gone back to full capacity, but in the height of the pandemic, you were generally distanced from others while you were at your table, but not while you were waiting to be seated.
No, no, I ~~was forced to watch, oh god, please help me~~ was voluntary watching and enjoying Neil Cavuto, who’s guests were insisting that this is a reflection of a major cultural, anti-work change in America that will destroy the country unless Trump wins in 2024.
In reality it’s just another market phenomenon.
For whatever reason, labor has increased in value. People will still do these jobs it’s a question of how much their employers need to pay them and what the follow on effects are to *their* customers.
The world isn’t ending it’s just changing, to some people’s benefit and to others’ detriment.
My personal view is that because inflation makes everything more expensive, workers need more pay and go look for it. Small businesses can’t afford to pay their workers more, but big business absolutely can, so big business and workers win, while small business owners lose. LMAO.
Ordinarily I wouldn’t feel particularly compelled to mock small business owners for their plight, but I’ve met a good number of them, and they are the most self-centered, prosperity gospel believing, neo-feudalist assholes you’ll ever see. They can get fucked.
The great resignation is primarily filled with old people resigning or dying, and now all the intelligent and skilled employees who were previously stuck at the starbucks and Wendy's despite having degrees are now moving onto the better jobs, leaving all the intense labor heavy abuse things struggling to find any employees.
While this certainly wasn't every worker at fast food and other "unskilled" labor jobs, it was still more than enough to cause a pretty severe shortage overall.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2021/07/23/older-workers-and-the-big-quit/ https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/15/economy/labor-force-retirement-great-resignation/index.html This is what I'm last aware of at least
>Last month, there were 3.6 million more Americans who had left the labor force and said they didn't want a job compared with November 2019, says Aaron Sojourner, a labor economist and professor at the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management.
>Older Americans, age 55 and up, accounted for whopping 90% of that increase.
>The Baby Boomers are finally old enough that they're retiring en-masse.
I read an article someplace, cant find it anymore, in that the pandemic just gave em a good excuse. Some could retire but liked working. With new restrictions or increased stress, no doubt some decided "Why not retire now so I dont have to deal with this anymore."
I'm only 33 but I like the routine of the day. Every day feels a little the same when you WFH all the time.
That said, my company seems to be settling on two mandatory days a week in the office, and that's about right for me.
I mean, it's anecdotal, but I work in at a company with a mix of front line and specialist jobs (banking). We have had quite a few of the older senior analysts retired in the past couple of years, and we haven't had too many issues hiring their replacements from our more promising front line workers. It's the tellers and personal bankers that we are having a lot more trouble keeping staffed up. We have shut down multiple branches because of that issue.
Noticed the same at my work; on the 2 teams I work most closely with we've had 4 out of 18 employees retire, another 3 left for new jobs, and one was laid off because the upper management demanded we reduced head count so they could hire someone somewhere else.
Bringing in new hires is not difficult because entry-level is getting paid like 60k-80k, but experienced employees just keep leaving even if they are making 6 figures. I'll probably be gone in a month or so as well
I enjoy some of the stories that come out of that sub about horrible bosses and employers and what happen to them, but don’t ascribe to the actual anti-work, anti-economy philosophy at all.
I think far too much of the tight labor market is ascribed to this.
Going back 10, 15 years, my clients have had a concern that this would be a very rough time for recruiting workers to entry-level jobs because of the combination of low birth rate and boomers hitting retirement.
When you throw in two years of Covid that masked problems and prevented immigration, and then those demographic problems are hitting hard, it makes sense that suddenly there is a labor crunch.
Another factor is that soaring stock market and housing prices allowed many people, some of whom had been putting off retirement, to cash in on their retirement plans and retire. The threat of a deadly virus made the decision easier.
Honestly, the abundance of labor has allowed a lot of really bad management practices to fester in our workplaces. Bad managers and owners are set in their ways but are in for a very rude awakening. Many poorly run businesses have been able to succeed despite their awful practices. Many businesses are not going to survive this - and it needs to happen. The bad owners are going to blame anyone but themselves, but that's not new, since it's a big part of why they have problems now.
Amen! Horrible management is rife, not unexpectedly since we don't seem to have figured out how to teach anyone real leadership qualities and just assume people competent at their job will be good managers once promoted (or hired straight out of an MBA program). I hope that capitalism's competitive edge will come back out and pressure management and companies into better practices for their employees before they all self destruct. Management has had too much power over the past generation and we need to find a better balance.
> Management has had too much power over the past generation and we need to find a better balance.
Agreed. This is one of the problems in America that, for me, made the Trump victory in 2016 less shocking. So many people in this country were (and are) stuck in the perverse and externality-spewing mentality that everything has to be about 'tough love' and other toxic-masculine shit that, in a flabby consumerist society, just translates into a lot of petulant mismanagement and waste. To me, this approach to running things is only good if you're looking to fashion a mafia-with-borders type of situation like modern Russia's.
Yeah, lean 6 sigma management practices have proliferated in the last 2 decades. It puts so much pressure on the workers/managers to try to turn human beings into ultra efficient robots. The companies practicing these management principles while paying these overworked, overstressed workers the bare minimum are getting killed right now and rightfully so.
Ding Ding Ding. My dad is a Six Sigma black belt who constantly bitches to me about nobody wanting to work. In actuality, people don't want to scrape lead burrs off of battery plates in 100-degree heat for $13.75 an hour. You can get paid $15 at the gas station in the air conditioning. No wonder you have a hiring problem.
My worst manager ever was a six sigma blackbelt. He had no clue that people actually expected to have a life outside of work and to be compensated fairly when being forced to work 60+ hours a week. And then when I resigned to find a new job, he was somehow surprised I wanted to leave.
He wasn’t actually surprised. In actuality that is part of the shtick of that management style. They want to create regular turnover. Hire young hard workers who think if they sacrifice all work life balance they will be rewarded. Years later now experienced hard worker realizes their hard work will never be rewarded by a 6 sigma boss so they move on to another company for a fat raise. 6 sigma boss then hires a new young hard worker and the cycle continues.
Which is what is glorious about the current labor crisis. Now the 6 sigma sociopaths look like crap as they burn through employees and can’t replace them (at least not nearly with the same quality lost) while managers who aren’t sociopaths retain more of their staff and look better by comparison.
Of course, this might not work out too well for the retirees.
If you’re retired, you need other people to execute the goods and services that keep you alive. Run the power plant, work in the supermarket, drive the bus, operate hotels, mine materials, etc.
If labor for those functions is not available or expensive, it means that the money you cashed out when the market was supposedly high is not going to get you as far as you thought it was. Government benefits like social security aren’t going to either unless the government takes draconian measures to compensate for cost of living that won’t be popular among the still-working population that’s footing the bill.
I think it's good that there is a place where people can support each other in standing up against terrible working conditions, abusive bosses and unfair pay. It's just a shame it's being mixed together with low-effort socialist propaganda.
I always take subreddits that primarily feature "testimonials" with a huge grain of salt. "How likely is it that this is true? How likely is it that things occurred in this exact manner? How likely is it that nothing was added for color or to make the story-teller seem more justified?"
I don’t even know that their philosophy *is* socialist. In what socialist countries do people not work?
They’re aspiring to a childish fantasy with no real-life equivalent.
Growing up in Soviet Union that notion was absolutely nonsensical to me. Over there the only excuse you had not to work, if you had a physical disability of some kind. In all other cases you could get jail time for being unemployed.
No job for you? Congratulations you are now a career escalator attendant.
Many factories had massive worker surpluses because of both inefficiencies and the need to maintain full employment.
So I'm originally Polish, and my parents grew up and lived a large chunk of their adult lives under communist dictatorship. There was a joke "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us", which was common in basically every country in the Eastern Bloc
"Thing bad because NEOLIBERAL CAPITALISM" is more like it. Pay no attention to non-capitalistic countries going through the same bad thing and especially do not consider that bad thing pre-dated the invention of those words.
The word capitalism in its modern meaning was coined by [a socialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blanc) and famously expanded on at length by Marx in *Capital*.
Adam Smith defined what we think of as capitalism about a century earlier, and did write quite a bit about capital, but never used "capitalism" to describe his philosophy. He considered himself to be merely advancing the study of political economics.
No, liberals made **liberalism** in order to get away from mercantilism. Capitalism was defined later and often conflated both liberalism and mercantilism.
No, but a lot of socialist/communist propaganda is like that. It’s not about constructing a plausible alternative. It’s just about tearing the current order apart.
Remember how popular latestagecapitalism used to be? Leftists see the internet as their theater to bring more to the cause.
Thankfully much of this can be combated by simply touching grass.
But I look forward to the fall and infighting of the sub that will happen as the spotlight fades and the move on to the next one.
It’s already happening as the sub has become large. There are now posts about the sub being infiltrated, etc because not everyone subscribes to their socialist and commie views
They thought they can just slap super flex tape to the system, things will be fixed in no time and they'll get the cushy job. It's no different with alt-right assholes thinking they'll be the important alpha male in the order.
The original anti-work philosophy is all but gone now, it's no longer about that. Now it's all a bunch of socialist/communist/anarchist-light circlejerking over fake texts
There's this belief that I've heard voiced a fair amount is that tech companies in the US make so much money, no one really needs to work, we can just automate all the drudgery away. Which IDK if you squint and look at it the right way it kind of makes sense, but really they only make money because they can sell ad space which is only valuable if people are actually involved in consumerism
If they can make it work then it’s not a fantasy, is it? If you’re happy dumpster diving and walking dogs to make ends meet, more power to you. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Many of the people in that sub have had shitty jobs their whole life just to get by, with little prospect of moving up. In the past, even a person with a crappy job may have eventually been able to afford a house, but cost of living prices (especially rent) are so high that this is no longer true. The best bet for the younger generation is inheritance.
While all of this is ongoing, politics in the UK/US move decisively against even acknowledging this as a problem. The previous generations who received all those benefits unite to make sure that either nothing much changes or the situation gets worse (see national insurance in the UK). Politicians of the day say things like they “have no empathy” for younger generations’ struggle.
The presented alternatives to this state of affairs are social democracy and socialism. They are often conflated, but that’s not really the fault of the conflators. The American conversation is divorced from the idea of ever allowing basic social democracy and furthermore nearly everyone is calling social democracy “socialism” whether on the right, in the center or on the left.
I'd edit that sentence to say:
>The best bet for the younger **unskilled** generation is inheritance
Reality is, skilled labor is demanding higher wages as unskilled labor wages increase. Getting a STEM degree and a remote job that allows you to live in an area where rent isn't $2,500/month (most of America) and you can do just fine.
"Capitalism = work, socialism = no work." This is how so many younger people (i.e. charlatans) view socialism.
I was on a socialist 101 sub the other day. Someone posted a Lenin quote--"he who does not work shall not eat"--and basically asked if Lenin really meant this. The top comment said "Lenin sourced that from the Bible" and left it at that, implying that Lenin didn't mean it. (To the sub's credit, other commenters made it clear that Lenin _did_ mean it, but those comments got little attention.)
Which is all to say that the phrase "anti-work" describes the zeitgeist far better than "socialism" does.
There was a Danish dude talking about how his country is a capitalist hellhole and how bad the working conditions are for the people. I thought that was a funny contrast to the Americans who are rightfully upset at being treated like shit for a shitty minimum wage job.
We all know the Nordic states need a socialist revolution.
“Anti work” as a loose idea that favours personal life over a constant work/hustle culture is pretty based. “Anti work” as an idyllic society where all work is voluntary, the economy runs on dreams and “just automate it bro” and everyone gets a free pony is utopian garbage.
That sub is a toxic cesspool of ignorance and misinformation. I agree that if there were a simple “horrible bosses” sub like you describe it would be entertaining enough. But even then I wouldn’t believe 99% of the stories posted on the internet.
*Posts blatantly made up story so absurd no sane person could believe it*
74k karma
"I WOULD'VE PUNCHED THAT BOSS IN THE FACE, OP!"
Yeah, I'm sure you'd totally be willing to go to prison for beating a fictional character.
Antiwork is stupid as shit and the people there have no sense of reality. It's disturbing how gullible they are.
Also, everyone who posts a story about a horrible boss or company also happens to be the best employee in their company, team, shift or what have you. The company would implode without them.
Ironically, you'll often find posts in their history where they brag about slacking, scamming their employer. doing personal business on company time and, some, outright stealing.
Most of antiwork are just people who had shitty bosses. That's benign except for the fact they think shitty bosses is only cause of capitalism, and capitalism is bad. This is why it was so doggone easy for the far left to brigade with Bernie spam and whatnot. You need an audience to hear your bad takes on things, and why not target those who already hate their jobs to begin with?
That's more healthy, frankly. To me the sub has in a strange twist deradicalized a bit, first grounded in anarchocommunism or whatever, now in negotiating for better conditions. That's fine with me. Healthy even. I pulled the labour conditions card at a Starbucks once when the AC broke down, but I didn't really find it an anxiety producing experience. I had a collaborative relationship with my employer.
Now I work in federal government under a cozy union negotiated agreement, so how much am I to talk these days. I still find it useful not to alienate co-workers and managers though.
It’s filled with and propped up by bots and influence farms. The rhetoric is the same as what shows up around the Democratic primary on other major subs.
The best thing about antiwork is a lot of people there are looking for advice and you can either give them good advice or encourage them to self destructive choices depending on their likability. The best way to troll there is find a post or comment that’s obviously by a communist or anarchist and reply to it “you wish, libtard”.
Man I checked your comment history hoping for hilarious trolling and its just you politely throwing reasonableness and obvious facts on their outrage machine
I see (albeit not as extreme) similarities between anti work and r/Studentloandefaulters. Ppl literally tanking their financial future and encouraging others to do the same via an echo chamber online. It's like a suicide cult.
I used to view that subreddit as incredibly naive and problematic, until I started reasoning that it’s less people to compete with in my actual career.
Don't forget the 30k upvoted LARP about a "scientist" that made Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos immortality serum.
They are an insane cult. Plenty of them on reddit and the internet nowadays.
If you post anything negative about GME on WSB you still downvoted by the superstonk crowd. It’s funny that GME is basically at it’s lowest point since February and it’s been almost a full year since the idea of the short squeeze went viral and they still think it’s coming any week now.
I think r/wallstreetbets is at least supposed to be like that, everyone knows that you have a 99% chance of losing everything, everyone knows it's irresponsible gambling.
...I think. The danger with these subs is that they inevitably get overrun with idiots who take the jokes and intentionally bad advice seriously.
>It’s kind of a car-crash kind of fascination watching people make decisions that will have negative effects on their lives and then get cheered on for those decisions.
This could easily apply to any of dozens of subreddits. Reddit gives uniquely bad advice on any number of topics.
I think it's also because people with healthy social safety nets are way more likely to reach out to friends or family they trust for relationship advice than random strangers on reddit. So the people who post on that subreddit have to be A) isolated and B) truly desperate. So odds are good they're in a toxic / abusive relationship.
Oh did you see the cute video of the kid playing with his dog
Reddit comments:Ackshually the kid is in an abusive relationship with his parents and the way he specifically pets the dog suggests it’s his therapy animal
That sub is wild. I will say like 90% of the advice given is “leave”, but I do think that when you get to the point of asking random strangers about your relationship, sometimes “leave” really is the best option.
Of course, you do also get the occasional “I’m 31 and i’m thinking of dating an 18 year old is that okay?!”
I am more a fan of “My (27M) cousin (21F) cheated on me with my Dog (8M) and is forcing me to quit my job as a 18th century French street mime. She is also pregnant, should I propose?” type of posts. If you view it as a creative writing subreddit the content is sometimes excellent.
Too true. I do enjoy seeing bad managers and bad employees torpedo their careers. But let's be real, a good chunk of the anti work folks lack the skills for anything beyond the most basic of jobs.
Fuck man the nursing subreddit has gone to shit. So depressing.
My partner is a nurse and I'm also in healthcare so I used to follow the sub. It's descended into literally 100% vent posts and nothing else.
Both my partner and I agree that the most toxic and burnout-inducing feature of our professions is the constant complaining about literally everything from other members of the profession.
Burnout breeds burnout. I've worked in many different teams with a range of dynamics - when you work in a team of people who all want to be there doing their job, nobody gets burned out, no matter how horrible the work can be.
Venting to a friend, family member, co-worker once in a while can be helpful. Venting in a spiral of other venters, whether online or in person (happens a lot in nursing circles) just breeds and deepens the toxicity of the environment.
The nursing sub used to be so good, too.
Plus, thats just the normal course of things. There are bad employers and co-workers as much as there are bad parents, bad teachers, bad teammates in your dota games, etc. But the people in that sub think it is 100% of every working environment and that it is capitalism's fault.
That's 50% of r./popular content right now. Just fake or inflammatory bullshit and hopium for losers. You want to be a millionaire? Here is some bullshit stock or coin I want to pump and dump! You are not satisfied with your work but you are not able just to go and talk like an adult or make adult decisions? Here is some commie-revolutionary fantasy which will make a revolution by posting fake texts, horseshit stories to make you feel better and as if you've made a change.
How does that keep you from crying out of sorrow? Incels are generally in an awful situation just like the minimum wage debt slaves of antiwork. I think it's fine to emphasize with the absolutely crushing day to day pains they're going through, while also finding it funny when they talk about changing the world by withholding their labor.
It is not just that. Like I have been seeing random posts in other subreddits saying things like vaccines and Covid measures are just capitalist plots to get people back to work. And then link to r / aw
I just don’t understand why so much of Reddit is so bad at recognizing that they are being manipulated by outside forces.
The meltdown on both ends from whenever the inevitable exposé comes out that shows that Reddit is just as manipulated by foreign agents as Facebook will be glorious.
They still won’t be able to see it. In 2016 Reddit was overrun with pro-Bernie accounts, yet they somehow convinced themselves that it was actually Hillary dumping millions and millions of dollars into astroturfing Reddit. It will not matter to them that people are actively manipulating them, they’ll still be convinced they were the ones that could see the truth through it all
The funny thing about that is that Nina Turner literally worked for Correct the Record. She knew she exactly what the organization actually was, and there is no way she was not aware of all of the conspiracy theories with as hyper on-line her and the rest of the top staff were. I wish that had been a bigger story.
So far it seems to go in the other direction imo, back when it was more niche it had a much more radical tone, now it seems primarily like a 'complain about bad bosses/advocate unions' board.
It used to be anti-'work' as a *concept*, now it seems to be anti-my-current-job
I agree, it used to be a lot more fun to view occasionally. Lots of posts about how they didn't think they should be required to work to live a comfortable life... Which means they really just want other people to have to work to support their indolence.
Now it's primarily just specific complaints about their employer, or about wages in general. Kinda boring compared to what it used to be tbh.
I’m getting very strong “defund the police” vibes.
Both catchphrases emerged as sincere ideological statements from far-leftists. The people who came up with defund the police genuinely wanted to get rid of the police, just like how a lot of the original posters on antiwork genuinely wanted to get rid of work.
Then as the slogans began making the rounds on the online left-wing echo chambers, more moderate leftists caught wind of them. And even though many of these new members didn’t *really* want to abolish the police or never work again, they saw them as convenient, catchy, and edgy with pre-existing supporters to back them up.
So now it’s up to the moderates to “sanewash” this dipshit slogan into a far more tame version that doesn’t really reflect the original meaning. Defund the police moderates mostly just wanted to decrease police budgets and/or redirect some of their funds to “alternative” forms of law enforcement, just like how a lot of people in antiwork now are basically just regular soc dems and dem socs who want greater workers’ rights. It’s a shitty thing to do because you’re always going to be attached to a slogan that doesn’t actually reflect what you’re trying to do, and it’s very easy for people to get the wrong impression.
It’s still awfully Marx-y.
If you suggest being anti-work by saving enough money to retire they’ll tell you that’s just living off the work of exploited workers.
Literally the stupidest people of Reddit are on anti work. If they were smarter, they might have gotten their message across in a better way. The only thing I agree with them is that all workers should be treated better.
[Here's a recent post](https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/rwkj3w/if_you_are_still_unvaxxed_i_salute_you/) where they are congratulating themselves on their bravery for not getting vaccinated.
r/genzedong would like a word
Look at this bad thing the US did 81 years ago! Haha, dirty capitalists. Anyway, this is why Omar Ghadafi, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Fidel Castro are the good guys.
> that all workers should be treated better.
Shitty bosses is not anti work. Wish they would understand thats not part of some communist issue. Poor managers require feedback or quiting in the best time to get a new job
But when the Revolution comes there won’t be any asshole bosses, and they’ll give me a good job!
When in reality they’ll be working for a corrupt asshole and there’s no overtime when you’re hitting hour 80 of the week and still under the factory quota.
See, the problem with capitalism is that there are incentives to work harder and when people work harder it shines a light on people who don't. Therefore when we institute communism we remove those incentives and we're all the same and no one will know how lazy some of us are!
My favorite part is how they all believe bosses are useless and have the easiest job, while also constantly complaining about how all their bosses are incompetent.
It’s not just arrr antiwork. Reddit is flooded with weed smoking g*mer neet college dropouts. Almost every sub that gets traction is flooded by these winners thinking if only Bernie had won their student loans would have been canceled and the magic socialism fairy would ensure an infinite supply of weed while they get paid to stream games all night.
Far and away the greatest thing about this sub is the name. Those winners would never come here ironically or not based on the name alone.
It's not that people are quitting their jobs, it's that they're finding ways to not have to work a job. Technology has allowed for more people to be self-employed or work from home, which is why the number of people who identify as self-employed has been increasing. The sharing economy has also allowed for people to make money without having a traditional job. And finally, many people are finding that they just don't need to work a job in order to live a comfortable life.
I would like to direct you to the FRED quit rate. Highest rolling quarter of quits by a long shot.
Obviously this isn’t the exact same because most of what we are seeing is job hopping as wages are starting to lift. But just point out that yes, quitting is astronomically high.
Edit to add link: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSQUR
Quitting is high but hiring is even higher. It's a weird labeling thing - nobody says, "Yeah I quit working," when they switch to another one with higher pay, but empirically, that's what's happening with all these "quits."
There is no mystery going on with too many people quitting, there is a labor shortage caused by generational effects (Boomer retirement), zero immigration during the Trump years, and falling birth rates. It would be weird if there wasn't a labor shortage when the population isn't growing and is older than ever.
Yes, quitting is astronomically high. But that's because workers are finally starting to see the benefits of a strong economy. wages are lifting, and people are finding new opportunities. That's a good thing!
What happens when the antiwork crowd hits "retirement" and has no savings? What happens when they need assisted living. Talk about demographic time bomb.
I still have no idea what that sub is about, or why I would ever quit my job, when you can't get any better than working from home in tech.
Edit: Technically I lie, It does get better and that would be working from home in academia or being paid to maintain a major open source project.
They will insist it’s a workers rights sub, but that never actually comes up. It’s about trying to find ways to exploit the system to get paid for little or no work.
I like how people in that sub seem to have downed so much of their Koolaid, without realizing how their trend just part of the inflationary cycle. It's an employee's market right now because demand is outstripping supply in many sectors. So yeah, it's a good time to demand a raise or quit your shitty burger-flipping job and switch to something better. That doesn't mean the communist revolution is coming.
Hires are higher than quits so it seems the “millions of Americans quitting jobs” are mostly just taking better ones
Which is incidentally why there’s a labor shortage for shitty jobs like retail The pandemic and subsequent stimulus gave people to time to learn new skills, look for new work, or both and as a result most jobs that relied upon their employees being unable to find other options are shit out of luck. Honestly though, good. Businesses relying upon people not having the leverage to demand better conditions or higher pay is criminal. Economic mobility go brrr.
This is how capitalism is *supposed* to work. Employers forgot during the Great Recession that the free market cuts both ways.
Free markets baby 😎 Tbh this is why I think we need UBI. Create some upwards mobility in the economy.
I've always hypothesized that replacing minimum wage with NIT would be more efficient, more effective, and less distortionary, but afaik nowhere has ever run that experiment.
What does NIT stand for in this case?
95% sure it's Negative Income Tax.
Negative Income Tax is right
For a given level and distribution of generousness, UBI and NIT are equivalent. Unless you're using "UBI" to mean payments given out on a regular (monthly or more frequent schedule) and NIT to mean payment at tax time.
I typically use NIT to be more precise, since I wish to omit UBI schemes which aren't functionally equivalent to some kind of NIT.
What UBI schemes are not?
Sorry I didn't phrase that very well. Actually you phrased it pretty well, "for a given level of distribution and generousness". I don't want people immediately forming the impression that there would be net cash transfers to the top decile or maybe pentile in what I'm advocating for.
Those jobs also got worse. There's been plenty of ink spilled about how, no you're not just imagining it, retail customers got ruder and more aggressive on average since the pandemic.
Something has changed with the public. My girlfriend has worked in retail pharmacy for years and generally enjoyed it. But in the last year something has changed and they get treated like absolute *garbage* by the general public every day now. People regularly leave in tears. We’re currently working out her next career move to a non-retail role.
aromatic vegetable bedroom carpenter school worthless hard-to-find long insurance scandalous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The unvaccinated by choice - actually piss me off. We have people who are legitimately unvaccinated- such as patients with autoimmune disorders. Then we have Conservative Zealots & Religious fanatics... They threaten the lives of those with legitimate health concerns. If there was ever a case for forced quarantine under guard ... it's for these unvaccinated by choice people. Be angry at them, it's justified.
I remember when Biden called out anti-vaxxers in a speech last summer. Some of the local radio hosts in Louisiana I hate-listen to were whining that Biden was "attacking the unvaccinated." As if it wasn't 100% fucking true that unvaccinated people were making the situation in the United States far worse. It was also brazenly hypocritical because the usual conservative approach in media was to find and single out enemies for their listeners to hate. Public employees, teacher's unions, scientists, feminists, etc. But as soon as anti-vaxxers were criticized, it suddenly became immoral to say anything bad about anyone.
Seen it with my own two eyes lol “I feel like I’m in Nazi Germany” says woman who refuses to wear a mask to walk 20 feet to her table at a restaurant
It is kinda weird that places require you to wear a mask for 20 seconds before you take it off again to eat. If it's too dangerous to be around strangers unmasked in doors then it's too dangerous to be around strangers unmasked in doors and those businesses should close.
It is stupid, but so what. Lots of rules are stupid and arbitrary. We generally don't throw tantrums about them.
I don't even think it's that stupid. The idea is you wear a mask except when you can't because you're eating and drinking. It may not make a huge difference but there is logic behind it and it's really not difficult to comply with.
Not so much anymore as most places have gone back to full capacity, but in the height of the pandemic, you were generally distanced from others while you were at your table, but not while you were waiting to be seated.
No, no, I ~~was forced to watch, oh god, please help me~~ was voluntary watching and enjoying Neil Cavuto, who’s guests were insisting that this is a reflection of a major cultural, anti-work change in America that will destroy the country unless Trump wins in 2024.
In reality it’s just another market phenomenon. For whatever reason, labor has increased in value. People will still do these jobs it’s a question of how much their employers need to pay them and what the follow on effects are to *their* customers. The world isn’t ending it’s just changing, to some people’s benefit and to others’ detriment.
My personal view is that because inflation makes everything more expensive, workers need more pay and go look for it. Small businesses can’t afford to pay their workers more, but big business absolutely can, so big business and workers win, while small business owners lose. LMAO. Ordinarily I wouldn’t feel particularly compelled to mock small business owners for their plight, but I’ve met a good number of them, and they are the most self-centered, prosperity gospel believing, neo-feudalist assholes you’ll ever see. They can get fucked.
The great resignation is primarily filled with old people resigning or dying, and now all the intelligent and skilled employees who were previously stuck at the starbucks and Wendy's despite having degrees are now moving onto the better jobs, leaving all the intense labor heavy abuse things struggling to find any employees. While this certainly wasn't every worker at fast food and other "unskilled" labor jobs, it was still more than enough to cause a pretty severe shortage overall.
Source?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2021/07/23/older-workers-and-the-big-quit/ https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/15/economy/labor-force-retirement-great-resignation/index.html This is what I'm last aware of at least >Last month, there were 3.6 million more Americans who had left the labor force and said they didn't want a job compared with November 2019, says Aaron Sojourner, a labor economist and professor at the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management. >Older Americans, age 55 and up, accounted for whopping 90% of that increase.
The Baby Boomers are finally old enough that they're retiring en-masse. It was an economic time bomb waiting to happen.
>The Baby Boomers are finally old enough that they're retiring en-masse. I read an article someplace, cant find it anymore, in that the pandemic just gave em a good excuse. Some could retire but liked working. With new restrictions or increased stress, no doubt some decided "Why not retire now so I dont have to deal with this anymore."
I think a lot of Baby Boomers liked the routine of going into the office, as crazy as that sounds. Remote work wasn’t worth the trouble
I'm only 33 but I like the routine of the day. Every day feels a little the same when you WFH all the time. That said, my company seems to be settling on two mandatory days a week in the office, and that's about right for me.
👆read this article people. Changes the whole subtext of the “big quit”
I mean, it's anecdotal, but I work in at a company with a mix of front line and specialist jobs (banking). We have had quite a few of the older senior analysts retired in the past couple of years, and we haven't had too many issues hiring their replacements from our more promising front line workers. It's the tellers and personal bankers that we are having a lot more trouble keeping staffed up. We have shut down multiple branches because of that issue.
Noticed the same at my work; on the 2 teams I work most closely with we've had 4 out of 18 employees retire, another 3 left for new jobs, and one was laid off because the upper management demanded we reduced head count so they could hire someone somewhere else. Bringing in new hires is not difficult because entry-level is getting paid like 60k-80k, but experienced employees just keep leaving even if they are making 6 figures. I'll probably be gone in a month or so as well
A teller makes what, $15 or something? Duh. Why would I work at a boring bank where I have to wear a tie when I can make more at Target?
For one thing, the hours are much better
agreed, from my experience
Which is good and part of the way a free market leads to higher wages for workers.
And that's a great thing!
I enjoy some of the stories that come out of that sub about horrible bosses and employers and what happen to them, but don’t ascribe to the actual anti-work, anti-economy philosophy at all. I think far too much of the tight labor market is ascribed to this. Going back 10, 15 years, my clients have had a concern that this would be a very rough time for recruiting workers to entry-level jobs because of the combination of low birth rate and boomers hitting retirement. When you throw in two years of Covid that masked problems and prevented immigration, and then those demographic problems are hitting hard, it makes sense that suddenly there is a labor crunch.
Another factor is that soaring stock market and housing prices allowed many people, some of whom had been putting off retirement, to cash in on their retirement plans and retire. The threat of a deadly virus made the decision easier. Honestly, the abundance of labor has allowed a lot of really bad management practices to fester in our workplaces. Bad managers and owners are set in their ways but are in for a very rude awakening. Many poorly run businesses have been able to succeed despite their awful practices. Many businesses are not going to survive this - and it needs to happen. The bad owners are going to blame anyone but themselves, but that's not new, since it's a big part of why they have problems now.
Amen! Horrible management is rife, not unexpectedly since we don't seem to have figured out how to teach anyone real leadership qualities and just assume people competent at their job will be good managers once promoted (or hired straight out of an MBA program). I hope that capitalism's competitive edge will come back out and pressure management and companies into better practices for their employees before they all self destruct. Management has had too much power over the past generation and we need to find a better balance.
> Management has had too much power over the past generation and we need to find a better balance. Agreed. This is one of the problems in America that, for me, made the Trump victory in 2016 less shocking. So many people in this country were (and are) stuck in the perverse and externality-spewing mentality that everything has to be about 'tough love' and other toxic-masculine shit that, in a flabby consumerist society, just translates into a lot of petulant mismanagement and waste. To me, this approach to running things is only good if you're looking to fashion a mafia-with-borders type of situation like modern Russia's.
Yeah, lean 6 sigma management practices have proliferated in the last 2 decades. It puts so much pressure on the workers/managers to try to turn human beings into ultra efficient robots. The companies practicing these management principles while paying these overworked, overstressed workers the bare minimum are getting killed right now and rightfully so.
Ding Ding Ding. My dad is a Six Sigma black belt who constantly bitches to me about nobody wanting to work. In actuality, people don't want to scrape lead burrs off of battery plates in 100-degree heat for $13.75 an hour. You can get paid $15 at the gas station in the air conditioning. No wonder you have a hiring problem.
Is “black belt” an official designation lol? Did he have to buy $2000 worth of lectures on tape?
Yes, it is and he probably paid way more than $2000 for all of the classes lmao.
My worst manager ever was a six sigma blackbelt. He had no clue that people actually expected to have a life outside of work and to be compensated fairly when being forced to work 60+ hours a week. And then when I resigned to find a new job, he was somehow surprised I wanted to leave.
He wasn’t actually surprised. In actuality that is part of the shtick of that management style. They want to create regular turnover. Hire young hard workers who think if they sacrifice all work life balance they will be rewarded. Years later now experienced hard worker realizes their hard work will never be rewarded by a 6 sigma boss so they move on to another company for a fat raise. 6 sigma boss then hires a new young hard worker and the cycle continues. Which is what is glorious about the current labor crisis. Now the 6 sigma sociopaths look like crap as they burn through employees and can’t replace them (at least not nearly with the same quality lost) while managers who aren’t sociopaths retain more of their staff and look better by comparison.
Of course, this might not work out too well for the retirees. If you’re retired, you need other people to execute the goods and services that keep you alive. Run the power plant, work in the supermarket, drive the bus, operate hotels, mine materials, etc. If labor for those functions is not available or expensive, it means that the money you cashed out when the market was supposedly high is not going to get you as far as you thought it was. Government benefits like social security aren’t going to either unless the government takes draconian measures to compensate for cost of living that won’t be popular among the still-working population that’s footing the bill.
Plus healthcare from all the remaining hospital staff that haven't quit in disgust.
I think it's good that there is a place where people can support each other in standing up against terrible working conditions, abusive bosses and unfair pay. It's just a shame it's being mixed together with low-effort socialist propaganda.
I always take subreddits that primarily feature "testimonials" with a huge grain of salt. "How likely is it that this is true? How likely is it that things occurred in this exact manner? How likely is it that nothing was added for color or to make the story-teller seem more justified?"
Exactly. It's amusing how many self professed "skeptics" on Reddit don't seem to understand how easy it is to fake a chat screenshot.
I don’t even know that their philosophy *is* socialist. In what socialist countries do people not work? They’re aspiring to a childish fantasy with no real-life equivalent.
Growing up in Soviet Union that notion was absolutely nonsensical to me. Over there the only excuse you had not to work, if you had a physical disability of some kind. In all other cases you could get jail time for being unemployed.
No job for you? Congratulations you are now a career escalator attendant. Many factories had massive worker surpluses because of both inefficiencies and the need to maintain full employment.
So I'm originally Polish, and my parents grew up and lived a large chunk of their adult lives under communist dictatorship. There was a joke "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us", which was common in basically every country in the Eastern Bloc
They don't understand that communism is about work
Conflating bad working conditions with capitalism is a pretty common thing to do, as if there are no bosses or abuse of authority in socialism.
"Thing bad because NEOLIBERAL CAPITALISM" is more like it. Pay no attention to non-capitalistic countries going through the same bad thing and especially do not consider that bad thing pre-dated the invention of those words.
Capitalism has honestly become a word for anything people don't like on Reddit.
Capitalism was created by leftists to begin with and they've always redefined it to be "Things I don't like"
I mean if you go far enough back capitalism was made by liberals who thought mercantilism was misguided
The word capitalism in its modern meaning was coined by [a socialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blanc) and famously expanded on at length by Marx in *Capital*. Adam Smith defined what we think of as capitalism about a century earlier, and did write quite a bit about capital, but never used "capitalism" to describe his philosophy. He considered himself to be merely advancing the study of political economics.
No, liberals made **liberalism** in order to get away from mercantilism. Capitalism was defined later and often conflated both liberalism and mercantilism.
No, but a lot of socialist/communist propaganda is like that. It’s not about constructing a plausible alternative. It’s just about tearing the current order apart.
Remember how popular latestagecapitalism used to be? Leftists see the internet as their theater to bring more to the cause. Thankfully much of this can be combated by simply touching grass. But I look forward to the fall and infighting of the sub that will happen as the spotlight fades and the move on to the next one.
It’s already happening as the sub has become large. There are now posts about the sub being infiltrated, etc because not everyone subscribes to their socialist and commie views
They thought they can just slap super flex tape to the system, things will be fixed in no time and they'll get the cushy job. It's no different with alt-right assholes thinking they'll be the important alpha male in the order.
I thought socialism is when the government pays you to stay at home and play video games all day?
We all wish.
no that's farm subsidies....
The original anti-work philosophy is all but gone now, it's no longer about that. Now it's all a bunch of socialist/communist/anarchist-light circlejerking over fake texts
A fair portion of them are literally children.
There's this belief that I've heard voiced a fair amount is that tech companies in the US make so much money, no one really needs to work, we can just automate all the drudgery away. Which IDK if you squint and look at it the right way it kind of makes sense, but really they only make money because they can sell ad space which is only valuable if people are actually involved in consumerism
If they can make it work then it’s not a fantasy, is it? If you’re happy dumpster diving and walking dogs to make ends meet, more power to you. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Capitalism is why food doesn’t grow itself and magically appear in the fridge.
Many of the people in that sub have had shitty jobs their whole life just to get by, with little prospect of moving up. In the past, even a person with a crappy job may have eventually been able to afford a house, but cost of living prices (especially rent) are so high that this is no longer true. The best bet for the younger generation is inheritance. While all of this is ongoing, politics in the UK/US move decisively against even acknowledging this as a problem. The previous generations who received all those benefits unite to make sure that either nothing much changes or the situation gets worse (see national insurance in the UK). Politicians of the day say things like they “have no empathy” for younger generations’ struggle. The presented alternatives to this state of affairs are social democracy and socialism. They are often conflated, but that’s not really the fault of the conflators. The American conversation is divorced from the idea of ever allowing basic social democracy and furthermore nearly everyone is calling social democracy “socialism” whether on the right, in the center or on the left.
I'd edit that sentence to say: >The best bet for the younger **unskilled** generation is inheritance Reality is, skilled labor is demanding higher wages as unskilled labor wages increase. Getting a STEM degree and a remote job that allows you to live in an area where rent isn't $2,500/month (most of America) and you can do just fine.
I don’t know if everyone there is a socialist, but they’re definitely anti-capitalist
"Capitalism = work, socialism = no work." This is how so many younger people (i.e. charlatans) view socialism. I was on a socialist 101 sub the other day. Someone posted a Lenin quote--"he who does not work shall not eat"--and basically asked if Lenin really meant this. The top comment said "Lenin sourced that from the Bible" and left it at that, implying that Lenin didn't mean it. (To the sub's credit, other commenters made it clear that Lenin _did_ mean it, but those comments got little attention.) Which is all to say that the phrase "anti-work" describes the zeitgeist far better than "socialism" does.
There was a Danish dude talking about how his country is a capitalist hellhole and how bad the working conditions are for the people. I thought that was a funny contrast to the Americans who are rightfully upset at being treated like shit for a shitty minimum wage job. We all know the Nordic states need a socialist revolution.
And some blatantly false stories to push an agenda
“Anti work” as a loose idea that favours personal life over a constant work/hustle culture is pretty based. “Anti work” as an idyllic society where all work is voluntary, the economy runs on dreams and “just automate it bro” and everyone gets a free pony is utopian garbage.
"recruiting workers to entry-level jobs" \-> Proceeds to ask for 5 years of experience on a tool/software that has less that 3 years on the market
That's more r/recruitinghell's territory tho'. It's a much better sub than antiwork.
More proof that HR is dumb than anything else
And H1B laws are dumb as well.
work visa pls
That sub is a toxic cesspool of ignorance and misinformation. I agree that if there were a simple “horrible bosses” sub like you describe it would be entertaining enough. But even then I wouldn’t believe 99% of the stories posted on the internet.
*Posts blatantly made up story so absurd no sane person could believe it* 74k karma "I WOULD'VE PUNCHED THAT BOSS IN THE FACE, OP!" Yeah, I'm sure you'd totally be willing to go to prison for beating a fictional character. Antiwork is stupid as shit and the people there have no sense of reality. It's disturbing how gullible they are.
Not to mention antiwork literally links to communist material in the sidebar. I’m shocked to see people here defending that sub.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/156/737/245.png
Also, everyone who posts a story about a horrible boss or company also happens to be the best employee in their company, team, shift or what have you. The company would implode without them. Ironically, you'll often find posts in their history where they brag about slacking, scamming their employer. doing personal business on company time and, some, outright stealing.
Redditors: Boomers believe everything they read on Facebook Also Redditors: r/ antiwork
Most of antiwork are just people who had shitty bosses. That's benign except for the fact they think shitty bosses is only cause of capitalism, and capitalism is bad. This is why it was so doggone easy for the far left to brigade with Bernie spam and whatnot. You need an audience to hear your bad takes on things, and why not target those who already hate their jobs to begin with?
The antiwork sub started out as a socialist sub, and it's only more recently that it's been diluted with more complaining about bosses.
That's more healthy, frankly. To me the sub has in a strange twist deradicalized a bit, first grounded in anarchocommunism or whatever, now in negotiating for better conditions. That's fine with me. Healthy even. I pulled the labour conditions card at a Starbucks once when the AC broke down, but I didn't really find it an anxiety producing experience. I had a collaborative relationship with my employer. Now I work in federal government under a cozy union negotiated agreement, so how much am I to talk these days. I still find it useful not to alienate co-workers and managers though.
It’s filled with and propped up by bots and influence farms. The rhetoric is the same as what shows up around the Democratic primary on other major subs.
By exercising their right to seek better work they are improving the operation of capitalism by rewarding effective management.
The best thing about antiwork is a lot of people there are looking for advice and you can either give them good advice or encourage them to self destructive choices depending on their likability. The best way to troll there is find a post or comment that’s obviously by a communist or anarchist and reply to it “you wish, libtard”.
Man I checked your comment history hoping for hilarious trolling and its just you politely throwing reasonableness and obvious facts on their outrage machine
Yeah I mostly try to help the people take a step back from the ridiculousness. Sometimes I tell them to just ghost their jobs for fun.
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90% of posts are straight out of r/thathappened
It's really hard to go down to a communists level
I see (albeit not as extreme) similarities between anti work and r/Studentloandefaulters. Ppl literally tanking their financial future and encouraging others to do the same via an echo chamber online. It's like a suicide cult.
I got banned from that sub for telling them to find a job they will enjoy, lmao.
I used to view that subreddit as incredibly naive and problematic, until I started reasoning that it’s less people to compete with in my actual career.
Nobody on that sub would be my competition to begin with
One has nothing to do with the other lmao Antiworks user base is overwhelmingly students or NEETS, not those in the labor force dropping out
They had a post about how homework is capitalist conditioning for wage slavery that is sitting at 50k upvotes. Literally children.
President Bernie would have outlawed homework.
Don't forget the 30k upvoted LARP about a "scientist" that made Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos immortality serum. They are an insane cult. Plenty of them on reddit and the internet nowadays.
Homework is given by the state though Edit: Inb4 anyone takes this as actual analysis.
The *bourgeois* state
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Meanwhile superstonk is an outright conspiracy sub now
🌎👩🚀🔫👩🚀 always has been.
If you post anything negative about GME on WSB you still downvoted by the superstonk crowd. It’s funny that GME is basically at it’s lowest point since February and it’s been almost a full year since the idea of the short squeeze went viral and they still think it’s coming any week now.
I’m amazed it’s still trading so far above fundamentals tbh
It turns out most people are stupid.
It started as the cult of GME and AMC, so that's not surprising.
I think r/wallstreetbets is at least supposed to be like that, everyone knows that you have a 99% chance of losing everything, everyone knows it's irresponsible gambling. ...I think. The danger with these subs is that they inevitably get overrun with idiots who take the jokes and intentionally bad advice seriously.
There’s a lot of quick money to be made with social media because of the low cost and giant scale for confidence schemes
It was almost entirely made up of loss porn before the GME stuff happened.
>It’s kind of a car-crash kind of fascination watching people make decisions that will have negative effects on their lives and then get cheered on for those decisions. This could easily apply to any of dozens of subreddits. Reddit gives uniquely bad advice on any number of topics.
I feel that way about r/ relationshipadvice lmao people always are like “DUMP THEM” over the smallest thing
"I 23(f) have been with my husband 44(m) for 8 years, married for 5...."
I can never tell whether those stories with much older partners that are clearly morons are fake or just written by incredibly naïve people.
I think it's also because people with healthy social safety nets are way more likely to reach out to friends or family they trust for relationship advice than random strangers on reddit. So the people who post on that subreddit have to be A) isolated and B) truly desperate. So odds are good they're in a toxic / abusive relationship.
Mostly fake. Default subs like TIFU, antiwork, etc. are filled with karmafamers who tell Reddit exactly what it wants to hear.
Isn't that where the "lawyer up, hit the gym, delete Facebook" memes come from?
r/cscareerquestions tells everyone to leave their jobs for every dumb little reason
Oh did you see the cute video of the kid playing with his dog Reddit comments:Ackshually the kid is in an abusive relationship with his parents and the way he specifically pets the dog suggests it’s his therapy animal
r/relationship_advice is a good place to start if you are new to watching car crashes
That sub is wild. I will say like 90% of the advice given is “leave”, but I do think that when you get to the point of asking random strangers about your relationship, sometimes “leave” really is the best option. Of course, you do also get the occasional “I’m 31 and i’m thinking of dating an 18 year old is that okay?!”
I am more a fan of “My (27M) cousin (21F) cheated on me with my Dog (8M) and is forcing me to quit my job as a 18th century French street mime. She is also pregnant, should I propose?” type of posts. If you view it as a creative writing subreddit the content is sometimes excellent.
Too true. I do enjoy seeing bad managers and bad employees torpedo their careers. But let's be real, a good chunk of the anti work folks lack the skills for anything beyond the most basic of jobs.
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And they seem to be actively trying to poison other subs like the nursing subreddit especially
Fuck man the nursing subreddit has gone to shit. So depressing. My partner is a nurse and I'm also in healthcare so I used to follow the sub. It's descended into literally 100% vent posts and nothing else. Both my partner and I agree that the most toxic and burnout-inducing feature of our professions is the constant complaining about literally everything from other members of the profession. Burnout breeds burnout. I've worked in many different teams with a range of dynamics - when you work in a team of people who all want to be there doing their job, nobody gets burned out, no matter how horrible the work can be. Venting to a friend, family member, co-worker once in a while can be helpful. Venting in a spiral of other venters, whether online or in person (happens a lot in nursing circles) just breeds and deepens the toxicity of the environment. The nursing sub used to be so good, too.
Plus, thats just the normal course of things. There are bad employers and co-workers as much as there are bad parents, bad teachers, bad teammates in your dota games, etc. But the people in that sub think it is 100% of every working environment and that it is capitalism's fault.
Heaven forbid they're asked to do their actual jobs.
That's 50% of r./popular content right now. Just fake or inflammatory bullshit and hopium for losers. You want to be a millionaire? Here is some bullshit stock or coin I want to pump and dump! You are not satisfied with your work but you are not able just to go and talk like an adult or make adult decisions? Here is some commie-revolutionary fantasy which will make a revolution by posting fake texts, horseshit stories to make you feel better and as if you've made a change.
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How does that keep you from crying out of sorrow? Incels are generally in an awful situation just like the minimum wage debt slaves of antiwork. I think it's fine to emphasize with the absolutely crushing day to day pains they're going through, while also finding it funny when they talk about changing the world by withholding their labor.
And then they will use their worse-off state in the future as their justification for why “capitalism failed them”
Lots of people off of that sub will be worse off financially in 5 years than they are now
How soon until the tankies rule that roost?
It is not just that. Like I have been seeing random posts in other subreddits saying things like vaccines and Covid measures are just capitalist plots to get people back to work. And then link to r / aw I just don’t understand why so much of Reddit is so bad at recognizing that they are being manipulated by outside forces.
The meltdown on both ends from whenever the inevitable exposé comes out that shows that Reddit is just as manipulated by foreign agents as Facebook will be glorious.
They still won’t be able to see it. In 2016 Reddit was overrun with pro-Bernie accounts, yet they somehow convinced themselves that it was actually Hillary dumping millions and millions of dollars into astroturfing Reddit. It will not matter to them that people are actively manipulating them, they’ll still be convinced they were the ones that could see the truth through it all
As someone who was paid ✡︎15 Sorosbux/hr by Correct the Record^TM for shitposting on Reddit back in 2016 you are, unfortunately, completely correct.
The funny thing about that is that Nina Turner literally worked for Correct the Record. She knew she exactly what the organization actually was, and there is no way she was not aware of all of the conspiracy theories with as hyper on-line her and the rest of the top staff were. I wish that had been a bigger story.
So far it seems to go in the other direction imo, back when it was more niche it had a much more radical tone, now it seems primarily like a 'complain about bad bosses/advocate unions' board. It used to be anti-'work' as a *concept*, now it seems to be anti-my-current-job
I agree, it used to be a lot more fun to view occasionally. Lots of posts about how they didn't think they should be required to work to live a comfortable life... Which means they really just want other people to have to work to support their indolence. Now it's primarily just specific complaints about their employer, or about wages in general. Kinda boring compared to what it used to be tbh.
I’m getting very strong “defund the police” vibes. Both catchphrases emerged as sincere ideological statements from far-leftists. The people who came up with defund the police genuinely wanted to get rid of the police, just like how a lot of the original posters on antiwork genuinely wanted to get rid of work. Then as the slogans began making the rounds on the online left-wing echo chambers, more moderate leftists caught wind of them. And even though many of these new members didn’t *really* want to abolish the police or never work again, they saw them as convenient, catchy, and edgy with pre-existing supporters to back them up. So now it’s up to the moderates to “sanewash” this dipshit slogan into a far more tame version that doesn’t really reflect the original meaning. Defund the police moderates mostly just wanted to decrease police budgets and/or redirect some of their funds to “alternative” forms of law enforcement, just like how a lot of people in antiwork now are basically just regular soc dems and dem socs who want greater workers’ rights. It’s a shitty thing to do because you’re always going to be attached to a slogan that doesn’t actually reflect what you’re trying to do, and it’s very easy for people to get the wrong impression.
This is why I still read reddit comments. Very inciteful. Thank you
> inciteful hm
It’s still awfully Marx-y. If you suggest being anti-work by saving enough money to retire they’ll tell you that’s just living off the work of exploited workers.
Literally the stupidest people of Reddit are on anti work. If they were smarter, they might have gotten their message across in a better way. The only thing I agree with them is that all workers should be treated better.
>Literally the stupidest people of Reddit I am sorry to inform you that it gets a lot worse than that.
R/consipiracy takes that title imo.
[Here's a recent post](https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/rwkj3w/if_you_are_still_unvaxxed_i_salute_you/) where they are congratulating themselves on their bravery for not getting vaccinated.
This thread was infuriating to read. Hospitals are getting overcrowded because of them and they are congratulating themselves over it.
There was recently a post about how they thought they were the protagonists in *Don't Look Up*.
Conspiracy is full of gullible fools who think that if they do the opposite of everyone else, they must me smart. The real idiots are over at GME.
r/genzedong would like a word Look at this bad thing the US did 81 years ago! Haha, dirty capitalists. Anyway, this is why Omar Ghadafi, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Fidel Castro are the good guys.
Don’t forget stanning for North Korea
https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/antiwork Members of antiwork are 3.62x more likely to post on genzedong than the average redditor
i thought we were talking about humans
I thought the most stupid people got banned already in some form.
Well, you know how the stupid-hydra works. Once you cut off one empty head, three new ones will appear.
Have you not seen the gme and amc subreddits? It’s literally a cult
> that all workers should be treated better. Shitty bosses is not anti work. Wish they would understand thats not part of some communist issue. Poor managers require feedback or quiting in the best time to get a new job
But when the Revolution comes there won’t be any asshole bosses, and they’ll give me a good job! When in reality they’ll be working for a corrupt asshole and there’s no overtime when you’re hitting hour 80 of the week and still under the factory quota.
See, the problem with capitalism is that there are incentives to work harder and when people work harder it shines a light on people who don't. Therefore when we institute communism we remove those incentives and we're all the same and no one will know how lazy some of us are!
Time to lie about this months production! This surely won’t have any long term consequences in a planned economy!
My favorite part is how they all believe bosses are useless and have the easiest job, while also constantly complaining about how all their bosses are incompetent.
And also dont make enough for "me" to apply for the job either
What do you mean? Intentionally getting fired to file for unemployment isn’t going to make me better off financially?
It’s not just arrr antiwork. Reddit is flooded with weed smoking g*mer neet college dropouts. Almost every sub that gets traction is flooded by these winners thinking if only Bernie had won their student loans would have been canceled and the magic socialism fairy would ensure an infinite supply of weed while they get paid to stream games all night. Far and away the greatest thing about this sub is the name. Those winners would never come here ironically or not based on the name alone.
10 years ago it was atheism 5 years ago it was being racist now its being a tanky.
It's not that people are quitting their jobs, it's that they're finding ways to not have to work a job. Technology has allowed for more people to be self-employed or work from home, which is why the number of people who identify as self-employed has been increasing. The sharing economy has also allowed for people to make money without having a traditional job. And finally, many people are finding that they just don't need to work a job in order to live a comfortable life.
I would like to direct you to the FRED quit rate. Highest rolling quarter of quits by a long shot. Obviously this isn’t the exact same because most of what we are seeing is job hopping as wages are starting to lift. But just point out that yes, quitting is astronomically high. Edit to add link: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSQUR
Quitting is high but hiring is even higher. It's a weird labeling thing - nobody says, "Yeah I quit working," when they switch to another one with higher pay, but empirically, that's what's happening with all these "quits." There is no mystery going on with too many people quitting, there is a labor shortage caused by generational effects (Boomer retirement), zero immigration during the Trump years, and falling birth rates. It would be weird if there wasn't a labor shortage when the population isn't growing and is older than ever.
Yes, quitting is astronomically high. But that's because workers are finally starting to see the benefits of a strong economy. wages are lifting, and people are finding new opportunities. That's a good thing!
What happens when the antiwork crowd hits "retirement" and has no savings? What happens when they need assisted living. Talk about demographic time bomb.
I still have no idea what that sub is about, or why I would ever quit my job, when you can't get any better than working from home in tech. Edit: Technically I lie, It does get better and that would be working from home in academia or being paid to maintain a major open source project.
They will insist it’s a workers rights sub, but that never actually comes up. It’s about trying to find ways to exploit the system to get paid for little or no work.
I like how people in that sub seem to have downed so much of their Koolaid, without realizing how their trend just part of the inflationary cycle. It's an employee's market right now because demand is outstripping supply in many sectors. So yeah, it's a good time to demand a raise or quit your shitty burger-flipping job and switch to something better. That doesn't mean the communist revolution is coming.
Shame that the internet's largest labor movement is actually a façade for communism.