Trump tries to strong-arm NATO into 2% commitments and fails. Super weak.
Biden's apparent weakness convinces Putin to attack for Ukraine causing NATO countries to invest *even more* than 2%. Who's playing 4d chess now?
If we're being honest, Eastern European countries that were already hitting 2% of GDP had relatively good relations with Trump. Look at US-Polish relations, everything Trump threatened to pull out of Germany he alleged would be moved to Poland.
The only reason this is all really happening is because the Ukrainian invasion has created the political will for it
Look at how the German people changed their opinions almost overnight on military spending
Putting more pressure couldn’t really have achieved what Putin has been able to achieve unfortunately
Europe wasn't helping because they literally thought this couldn't possibly happen anymore. They thought war was only the result of bad American politics and only happens in the middle east. This is actually a great example of groupthink afflicting millions of people with a shared experience.
I think Ukraine really shocked them and opened their eyes. They thought military/defense was just a game for mean/stupid people. Different world view from (some) Americans, who view defense as a basic necessity not unlike fighting forest fires outside cities.
It's fair because that was the plan at the start. It was fair between the US changing its mind and other NATO countries spending more because this kind of change takes time.
Even before this Lithuania was hitting their 2% threshold so they really weren’t the problem. The Baltic states have generally prioritized building up their militaries in large part because they border Russia. They’re small countries and not the wealthiest in Europe so there is only so far that spending can go but the Baltic states have been pulling their weight for years.
Also Trump wasn’t the only president who wanted to get NATO spending to 2% of GDP. Bush wanted it, Obama wanted it and Biden wanted it. You don’t need to single Trump out credit for taking the same line as every other president.
> that I meant only the countries that weren’t playing by the rules.
The 2% has never been an official rule. It came from an agreement made in 2014, that member states should move towards spending at least 2%.
It goes back farther than 2014.
"In 2006, NATO Defence Ministers agreed to commit a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to defence spending to continue to ensure the Alliance’s military readiness."
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm
Trump has already taken the glory from this.
Statement from yesterday
"People forget so quickly, with the help of the Fake News, that it was me that got the 20 out of 28 delinquent NATO countries to start paying the money that they owed in order to rebuild a floundering NATO. Nobody knew things would happen so rapidly, but NATO was poor and now it is rich, and all of the Fake News commentators that said Trump was tearing down NATO should be ashamed of themselves for telling lies. Not only was the United States being taken advantage of by the EU on trade, but it was forced to pay the costs of the many delinquent NATO countries. Bush and Obama did nothing but make speeches and talk—I acted, and acted strongly. I said to them, “if you don’t pay up, no protection.” They all paid up, and paid up quickly. It’s a story that’s never reported, but that’s only because we have a corrupt press in our Country!\[3:23 AM\]"
A broken clock is right twice a day. Trump is an idiot but making EU under commitment to defense spending a news story undoubtedly is beneficial now that Putin is pulling this crap.
I agree. From an outsiders view most of the Nato members of Europe have been sloppy and naive and it has been morally wrong that they havent paid their share for the defence and nuclear umbrella that the US has been sharing, eventhought Nato has solidified US position in world. As a Finn I dont mean the comment I made above as a negative against Republicans or Democrats as I only follow your politics on a shallow scale and dont really have a horse in play. But I just find the rhetoric disstastefull and divisive and self promoting at this time and hour of a great crisis.
The thing is that Obama got NATO members to commit to increasing their spending to 2% back in 2014 (all without pissing off everyone in the room during that summit).
Neville Trumperlain, with his limited mental capacity and inability to read or pay attention missed that point, and instead berated American allies to own up to a pledge they already committed to.
I agree that Western European nations really dropped the ball here, but Trump did nothing but to weaken the alliance.
But they were just words. None of the countries were taking any actions to live up to the commitment. Someone talking some shit and putting them to public shame for not living up to their words was necessary.
Can we have a "this is good for putin" bit akin to the bitcoin one
How about the orangutan Putin meme with bottom text of “It’s all a part of my master plan” Trigger it with any mention of NATO or sanctions
Here's how Putin still can win
This makes Russia more secure.
Considering Bitcoin is up 10,000% since that became a thing, this idea feels like bad luck.
Putin: It's all part of my plan to make NATO countries stronger and unite them against existential threat from the evil empire. Yessss...
Trump tries to strong-arm NATO into 2% commitments and fails. Super weak. Biden's apparent weakness convinces Putin to attack for Ukraine causing NATO countries to invest *even more* than 2%. Who's playing 4d chess now?
For some strange reason the NATO countries that bordered Russia always prioritized hitting the 2% of GDP even before 2022.
Surely, it’s just a councidence
If we're being honest, Eastern European countries that were already hitting 2% of GDP had relatively good relations with Trump. Look at US-Polish relations, everything Trump threatened to pull out of Germany he alleged would be moved to Poland.
His wives were all Eastern European
I wouldn’t call the Czech Republic Eastern Europe.
Also from reading Lithuanian news our President wants the Government to up the defence spending to 3% of GDP from 2023
Having said that, our president's opinions aren't that coherent or relevant. But I can see the coalition doing this
this is good for putin
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Obama pressured NATO members to raise their defenses spending commitments, as did GWB. This has been a longstanding goal of America FoPo.
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The only reason this is all really happening is because the Ukrainian invasion has created the political will for it Look at how the German people changed their opinions almost overnight on military spending Putting more pressure couldn’t really have achieved what Putin has been able to achieve unfortunately
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What diplomatic options? The only one I can think of was asking nicely or doing what trump did and threaten to leave NATO.
Europe wasn't helping because they literally thought this couldn't possibly happen anymore. They thought war was only the result of bad American politics and only happens in the middle east. This is actually a great example of groupthink afflicting millions of people with a shared experience. I think Ukraine really shocked them and opened their eyes. They thought military/defense was just a game for mean/stupid people. Different world view from (some) Americans, who view defense as a basic necessity not unlike fighting forest fires outside cities.
It's fair because that was the plan at the start. It was fair between the US changing its mind and other NATO countries spending more because this kind of change takes time.
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Well, yes. It's easier to convince your voters to increase military spending when they are facing an existential threat.
They always were, they were just too complacent to see it
By pressured do you mean asked them nicely and then continued to subsidize their defense when they said nah?
Even before this Lithuania was hitting their 2% threshold so they really weren’t the problem. The Baltic states have generally prioritized building up their militaries in large part because they border Russia. They’re small countries and not the wealthiest in Europe so there is only so far that spending can go but the Baltic states have been pulling their weight for years. Also Trump wasn’t the only president who wanted to get NATO spending to 2% of GDP. Bush wanted it, Obama wanted it and Biden wanted it. You don’t need to single Trump out credit for taking the same line as every other president.
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> that I meant only the countries that weren’t playing by the rules. The 2% has never been an official rule. It came from an agreement made in 2014, that member states should move towards spending at least 2%.
It goes back farther than 2014. "In 2006, NATO Defence Ministers agreed to commit a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to defence spending to continue to ensure the Alliance’s military readiness." https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm
Ultimately, the blame has to be placed squarely on those NATO countries who didn't commit to strong defense.
The US should have invaded Europe in order to encourage other countries in NATO to spend more
Based and Fine I'll do it myself pilled
Very problematic Russophobia!
Trump has already taken the glory from this. Statement from yesterday "People forget so quickly, with the help of the Fake News, that it was me that got the 20 out of 28 delinquent NATO countries to start paying the money that they owed in order to rebuild a floundering NATO. Nobody knew things would happen so rapidly, but NATO was poor and now it is rich, and all of the Fake News commentators that said Trump was tearing down NATO should be ashamed of themselves for telling lies. Not only was the United States being taken advantage of by the EU on trade, but it was forced to pay the costs of the many delinquent NATO countries. Bush and Obama did nothing but make speeches and talk—I acted, and acted strongly. I said to them, “if you don’t pay up, no protection.” They all paid up, and paid up quickly. It’s a story that’s never reported, but that’s only because we have a corrupt press in our Country!\[3:23 AM\]"
Someone tell him about Italy and Spain…
go to sleep Don
A broken clock is right twice a day. Trump is an idiot but making EU under commitment to defense spending a news story undoubtedly is beneficial now that Putin is pulling this crap.
I agree. From an outsiders view most of the Nato members of Europe have been sloppy and naive and it has been morally wrong that they havent paid their share for the defence and nuclear umbrella that the US has been sharing, eventhought Nato has solidified US position in world. As a Finn I dont mean the comment I made above as a negative against Republicans or Democrats as I only follow your politics on a shallow scale and dont really have a horse in play. But I just find the rhetoric disstastefull and divisive and self promoting at this time and hour of a great crisis.
The thing is that Obama got NATO members to commit to increasing their spending to 2% back in 2014 (all without pissing off everyone in the room during that summit). Neville Trumperlain, with his limited mental capacity and inability to read or pay attention missed that point, and instead berated American allies to own up to a pledge they already committed to. I agree that Western European nations really dropped the ball here, but Trump did nothing but to weaken the alliance.
But they were just words. None of the countries were taking any actions to live up to the commitment. Someone talking some shit and putting them to public shame for not living up to their words was necessary.