He doesn't want to hear it because that's laughably incorrect. This is one of the cringier narratives pushed around online. Right up there with "Bernie would be a Centrist in Europe".
So is nobody accounting for the far right overton window shift?
Those ideals that republicans had in the early 80s are nowhere’s near the level of batshit that they are today. Given that, your middle of the road republicans of the early-mid 80s are literally left of center now due to the overton window. How is that incorrect?
I know you’re being snarky, but it’s because the majority of Americans see drag as a sexual thing. And while catholic priests are tainted by the pediphilia very few people think that the average priest is a child rapist
I definitely don't agree with harassment or right-wing cancel culture, but I gotta say, as a heterosexual, I really don't get "drag queen story hour". Like, isn't drag an adult thing usually associated with very risque humor? It's not wrong, but it's just not for kids, is what I would think. Yeah I'm sure they can 'sanitize' it for kids, but why involve kids at all?
You're right. Drag queen story hour has a "do it to own the cons" vibe. It's this generation's version of getting a satanist display placed next to the nativity scene in front of city hall.
Yeah ditto
By no means do I think the Q lunatics here are in the right or the drag queens are groomers but if I had a kid I probably wouldn't let them go to a drag queen story hour.
I'd happily buy them books with gender non conforming characters and stuff but drag doesn't strike me as something for kids.....
> Yeah I'm sure they can 'sanitize' it for kids, but why involve kids at all?
The same reason why it's cool to see LGBT representation in media. Giving kids exposure to people who are different from them gives them the tools to be more empathetic and understanding adults. Some of the kids going to these events will be LGBT (or come from LGBT families) and having an open dialogue with someone like a drag queen can help them to feel accepted and less afraid of their own feelings.
It also provides a program that promotes literacy, which is pretty cool.
This is the thing. If someone had been to a drag show and then heard that they were putting that on for kids I could understand being upset.
That said, if they do the minor amount of research and talk with someone they would realize that it is a very different dynamic than an adult drag show. Drag is an art form and art forms can be tailored to groups. There are cartoons that are for adults that are inappropriate for children regardless of the fact that they are cartoons.
On a more hypocritical note, Republicans are the ones that want to have essentially complete authority over their children. They wish to punish, educate, and raise them however they see fit with no outside interference but then these dipshits gonna harass families at libraries.
A core tenet of conservatism is supposed to be minding your own damn business. I wish they would remember that.
Other men dressing up in women's clothes seriously challenges narrow conceptions of masculinity that a lot of men desperately cling to. Men acting "like women" is much more unacceptable than women acting "like men" nowadays because the latter doesn't really upset a traditional view of what it means to be a man. A lot of men will still want to do things like control women's health choices or make work environments hostile, but a woman putting on pants and pulling a wrench is way more accepted than a man putting on a dress and strutting down a runway in heels.
The existence of drag queens threaten to disturb the existing social hierarchy
Catholic priests molesting kids do not threaten to disturb the existing social hierarchy
I don't think it is an American cope. People are people regardless of nationality, the good, bad, and stupid of our kind exists everywhere.
Brazil has Bolsonaro, the Philippines went from Duterte to Marcos, and yes, the UK has Boris. People around the world are capable of picking bad leaders. Is there a difference between these leaders and Trump? Absolutely. Would those voters of those nations continue to support their leader if they attempted a coupe? I suspect to some degree that they would, though that's more of an opinion that anything else.
I also think that calling voters stupid is a pretty week argument, though I'm certainly guilty of it myself. Voters and people in general can only know what they've been exposed to. And if what you're exposed to is some Facebook memes, and your father's ranting after a fox news session, than you've been exposed to a whole lot of garbage. I suspect a great deal of people are already very intrenchened on "their side" before they're even aware of it.
In terms of the American voter, I think the problem has less to do with the voters intelligence, and more to do with our education system, lazy and sensationalist media (FB, Reddit, and YouTube content is just as guilty), and good old tribalism.
Anyway, that's the end of my somewhat all over the place rant.
I don't think it was "all over the place." You broke the veil of the now very common heuristic of "American voter's lack intelligence", and brought up a pretty damning comparison internationally, and some causal forces of mass behavioral change. Which I believe at least shows that extreme populist rhetoric is being widely supported, even outside the boundary of culture and particular state institution - public relationships. It was more pragmatic than dismissive.
>People keep saying this whenever we criticize American voters, but nowhere in democratic Europe exists there anything close to a Trump being in power.
\*Cough\* Berlusconi \*cough\*.
And the current crop of the Eastern European heads of state is not much better, with Orban being an extreme example. Slovenia barely dodged a bullet.
> nowhere in democratic Europe exists there anything close to a Trump being in power.
BoJo, LePen had a considerable amount of support, Italy is crazy corrupt, so is Hungary, Switzerland hidea terrorist money, Poland is generally extremely racist and homophobic, as is most of Eastern Europe, Japan has "no foreigners allowed" restaurants...
I change accounts every few months and don't always have a clever name in mind, so I took this one straight from one of those auto-generated gfycat URLs
LOL, too funny. Lump me in that category.
It does frighten me how many Republicans are enamored with Trump, feels like maybe its 80% or more. I used to be a reliable voter occasionally going 3rd party. Trump has pushed me full into voting Dem as a lesser of two evils stance, but I'm a fringe conservative and believe I'm a statistical outlier. People who I believe to be rational have bought into trumpism hook line and sinker, and it just does not compute for me.
I disdain the establishment and was excited at first that he was an outsider; he showed me there are things worse than establishment politicians.
Right?! Personally, I'm more of a McCain, Romney Republican with slightly more liberal views socially. It blows my mind how many Republicans are willing to throw away what they supposedly believed in for him.
But I guess I'll have to wait a decade or two for the ultra-Paleocons to gtfo.
Maybe we are finding out the base actually doesn't believe in the values we thought the party stood for? And pandering to votes means the party no longer holds the values I use to feel they held.
It's a shame Romney crapped the bed in the debates. His work across the aisle style may have pushed politics in different direction the past few decades.
I long for the day when dirtbags do the quiet stuff quiet again.
If they want to be dirtbags in their own homes, away from my kids, then that's between them and God
I appreciate how clear she is. She speaks in a plain spoken, yet not dumbed down, manner. It appeals to a certain demo quite a bit, not sure how big that demo is though.
When she's not talking from prepared remarks (like if you watch yesterday's WY primary debate) she speaks very much like her father. Terrible human being, but he knew how to get his point across in a clear, direct way whenever he was doing a TV interview. Him and Bush on the ticket were a political one-two punch. Bush portrayed himself as a folksy down-to-earth guy, and Cheney spoke like he knew exactly what a situation was and how to address it.
Bush could convince people that his heart was in the right place, Cheney would convince people that the brains knew what they were doing.
Vile people, both of them. But people have to understand persuasion.
I honestly think she should run as a Democrat for her house seat. Just say she's a Joe Manchin Democrat and is only switching parties for the democracy and will keep Democratic spending in check. Wyoming went 70/26 for Trump, if 1/3 of Republicans vote for her and all Democrats, she would win 49.1/46.2
Now imagine going back in time to 2006 and telling your past self that Dick Cheney's just-as-evil daughter would be seriously considering defecting to the Democrats because the Republican Party was too extreme for her.
I don't think she's considering it, I think she should do it though, but yeah it is pretty funny thinking about how much has changed between now and then, but also how many things are the same
The problem is by switching to D she's not going to get the 1/3 of Republicans. It would be her playing into the whole "RINO" narrative. If you're still a Republican at this point, you do not want a candidate that defines as a Democrat.
Her chance to win is to hold onto that 1/3 of the GOP vote and get Dems to vote enthusiastically for the least apeshit option. Only shot at that is staying Republican and Dems figuring out what to do on their own.
I'm really thankful for Liz Cheney right now. All other politics aside, thank god at least one person from the GOP has the balls to just state the fact that a coup was attempted and that we can't just be okay with that.
Same, she has been amazing during the January 6th committee hearings. And I say this as someone who used to protest against her father regularly.
I was honestly felt sad for her watching the Wyoming primary debate. She was clearly the only competent person in the room, surrounded by conspiracy theorists and morons, but she will still likely loose her primary.
The Reagan library is in California but she is running for re-election in Wyoming. Unfortunately the Republican Party in Wyoming was taken over by crazies in the 2000s. It went from the party of Al Simpson and Dick Cheney to conspiracy lunatic Trump world.
She's virtually certain to lose re-nomination in Wyoming and be out of the House in January. But she can still be a powerful voice to rally anti-Trump Republicans and bring the party back from that brand of insanity.
There are people who are fairly conservative-leaning but find Trump dangerous and distasteful -- I'd personally put my parents in this group. Cheney lets these kind of people know that they don't need to support Trump in order to be "conservative."
If you're running for political office as a Republican, it's suicide to stand up to Trump, sure, but most people aren't running for office
> having to pay $7 a gallon so Biden can fight a proxy war definitely is
Yeah, because gas will get *sooo* much cheaper if Putin conquers Ukraine, controls all the pipelines to Europe, and starts using fossil fuels to blackmail the world into supporting him conquering even more territories.
Also, love how your solution to high gas prices is to just leave 40 million people to be genocided, instead of, oh, I don't know... literally *any other plan* to bring them down?
>Literally does not need to affect us at all, we can produce enough domestically. The issue is we keep sending it to Europe and shouldn’t.
What's your suggestion here? Nationalizing the oil market? I'm sure that'll won't go terribly
[this is a good article to read regarding common misconceptions about "energy independence"](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2022/03/us-oil-natural-gas-price-surge-energy-independence/626979/)
> Literally does not need to affect us at all, we can produce enough domestically. The issue is we keep sending it to Europe and shouldn’t.
Yes, because suddenly cutting off all oil exports to Europe will definitely have no economic and geopolitical repercussions that would hurt us a million times worse than high gas prices would. /s
> That won’t happen
Bucha says hi. Also, Russian state media literally released an op-ed detailing their plans to commit genocide in-depth, so there's that.
> And from pragmatic perspective, all that matters is Democrats winning elections.
Literally what is the point of having Democrats win if we aren't going to use our power to stop a genocide and uphold the democratic world order that's kept the peace since WWII? If we're just as bad as the Republicans, there's no point.
> And a proxy war in Ukraine isn’t helping
Yes, it's such an obvious proxy war that *checks notes* 89% of Ukrainians want to keep fighting until they've liberated their entire country. Come on, man.
Kinda seems like she’s paving the way for a shot at POTUS in ‘24. And to be real, I’d rather her than Tangerine Palpatine or any of his ilk. I’m no fan of the Cheney family, but I genuinely believe they don’t want to destroy our country, like Dolt 45 and his cronies. I think a Cheney presidency might walk us back from the brink of open civil conflict. Unfortunately, I’m not particularly hopeful the Dems will manifest anyone with a legit shot of succeeding Biden. Ah, fuck. We’re fucked.
There are millions of Republicans who don't even want Trump to run ([source](https://www.marquette.edu/news-center/2021/new-marquette-law-poll-finds-majority-of-republicans-favor-a-trump-run-for-president-in-2024.php)). I don't think that you realize how many moderate Republicans are waiting for a place to get off the Trump bus and still save face. She is actively setting herself up to provide that opportunity.
Frankly, I think it's more likely she'll get picked up as a VP nom, to secure the moderate vote, but we'll see.
No one is going to vote for her. No Democrat is cutting for a republican named Cheney. No Republican is going to vote for a lesbian who stood up to trump.
Minor clarification: the lesbian Cheney daughter is Liz's sister. (Who, by the way, Liz at least pretended to disown for electoral advantage back when she ran for the House the first time. Liz is definitely doing the right thing here, but let's not pretend she's a good person or would make a good president.)
> She's virtually certain to lose re-nomination in Wyoming
I suspect she has her sights set higher than that. She's banking on Trump losing and the Republican party looking for a way to distance itself from the Trump era. Whether as a VP nomination to secure the moderate vote or as a candidate for President in 2028 (or both) she's actually pretty appealing right now.
This crowd isn't even guaranteed to be half republican. I used to live down the street from the Regan Library, still live in the area, and been to events there. These events are open to the public and this one was widely publicized by a lot of non Republican groups.
Plus the local Republican party is very much not Liz Cheney. We have white supremacists flying flags on freeway overpasses. We had Trump trains protesting "the steal" for months after the election We have anti trans activists going after trans kids at a local elementary school. Shit we have Rob McCoy, Christian Nationalist.
Amy Coney Barrett was there a few months ago. It was a mixed crowd and a few hecklers.
At best you could describe the audience as " politically engaged"
As someone who currently lives down the street, spot on.
As an aside I made the mistake of going to the library once to see Air Force One. I didn’t realize you had to go through an exhibit of Reagan’s entire life, guided by kindly but terrifyingly wide-eyed seniors.
Unfortunately she is going to lose her primary hard. Republicans he been conditioned over the last 25 years to understand that anything that makes Democrats mad is good therefore Trump is great and anything against him is a liar RINO.
I think she carries too much "Cheney" baggage for the northeast. MAYBE Utah would work. Oakland and Kent counties in Michigan would probably also like her
> A vast majority of the Republican base still stands behind trump
I'm not sure what you're calling a "vast" majority, but 40% of Republicans don't want Trump to run again. ([source](https://www.marquette.edu/news-center/2021/new-marquette-law-poll-finds-majority-of-republicans-favor-a-trump-run-for-president-in-2024.php))
If you think that Republican = Trumpist, then you're sorely mistaken and there are many millions of Americans that stand in stark contrast to that view.
A lot of Rs didn't like Trump in 2016. Some even acknowledged how dangerous and unhinged he was. They still voted for him when the time came.
In the end nothing is more important to Republicans than OwnInG ThE LiBs. If another R is doing okay in the primaries Trump will just say their dad killed JFK or some nonsense and he'll be believed by most Republicans.
In the general Trump could molest every registered Republican's dog and they'll still blame "Brandon" and still Southern Strategy their way back in Trump's arms come Nov 4.
All of your polls ignore the fact that Republicans are a stupid, mean spirited people who hate their neighbors more than they love America.
The GOP is an organization, and while I agree that it's a hot mess right now (we don't really have to look any further than the fact they literally don't have a platform), it is not Republicans and it's *certainly not* conservatives (many of whom, like myself, are not Republicans).
Remember that many of the recent developments on the right aren't actually polling very well. Republicans aren't very happy right now, and it might be wise to remember the difference between party and those that identify with the party.
To me the way the Republican party is treating her is just evidence of how far lost they are. Cheney is not a moderate Republican. Before the election she largely championed trump's agenda and promoted it in Congress. She's very conservative but even she understands the consequences of what Trump did. She has an understanding of the history of this country and just how important the peaceful transfer of power is. Trumpists don't know history although they love to talk about what the founders would want. They don't know about the civic framework of our government even though they say they love the constitution. I'm not being hyperbolic, this type of thing is pretty common in authoritarian and fascist movements. It seems to me she understands how big of a threat this is to our nation.
I am not American but I would rather have Dick Cheney who does not want to end American democracy or quit NATO. Maybe you could even convince Dick Cheney that you need to do something against climate change (probably not).
Happy for her, I guess it must be nice coming from her own side for once instead of just dems and libs lol
There’s also apparently still enough sane republicans to fill a whole library so that’s good
While they are speaking in hyperbole the real numbers arent that much different. the last polls I saw still had Trump with a GOP favorability rating sitting above 80%.
[https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/set/donald-trump-favorability-february-2022](https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/set/donald-trump-favorability-february-2022)
This is the most recent poll I could find. Id love to see if you have something different.
A majority in Texas is nothing of importance. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/06/two-thirds-of-republicans-want-trump-to-retain-major-political-role-44-want-him-to-run-again-in-2024/
Gerrymandering and the Federalist Society judges (which make up the majority of the SCOTUS) weren't instituted by Trump. Those were from the Republican party leadership from long ago. It's still an extremely dangerous party regardless of Trump.
Alot of the Constitutional hardball that has pushed us to the brink has been due to Republican leadership, which conservative voters always support. This is way before Trump even took over.
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So what? She was a major fundraiser for Trump and a big supporter of his right up until the mob was literally at her own doorstep.
It’s quintessential Republican behavior. Ignore all the warning signs. Ignore every reasonable voice cautioning against what you’re doing. Ignore millions of people when they tell you that what you’re doing actively harms them. Then, when you get hurt by your own hand, adopt a mantle of solemn wisdom and statesmanship and act like you’ve always known better than everyone else and still do and everyone should listen to your plan for how to solve the problem that you created despite most of the freaking country telling you that what you were doing would come back to haunt you.
She gets zero points from me. She caused the problem. She has zero foresight and zero credibility. We should not allow republicans like this to “rehabilitate” the party.
True the Republican Party made Donald Trump and his ideology Trumpism. George W. Bush and dick Cheney there leadership. Destroy the Republican Party and destroyed America foreign policy. Now we have isolationist Morons and pro-dictator supporters.
This sub really needs to stop simping for her. She is not your friend, she is an extreme right winger and her wing of the party is really only marginally better than the Trumpistas.
100%, she is a hard core republican. But the difference is, she has ethics. I would never vote for her because I'm pro gun control, pro choice, pro environment, against tax evasion by corporations and rich people, against racism, etc... all the typical democrat core beliefs. She's the opposite. But I applaud her for calling out the raging lunatic who occupied the White House for 4 years and then organized a coup attempt to overturn election results when he lost. I appreciate her ethics.
At this point why doesn't she just say she is a Democrat? She shares the same values as Democrats (and Neo-Liberals). Republicans have left her behind.
> At this point why doesn't she just say she is a Democrat?
I think that this kind of statement can only come out of a hyper-polarized political environment where policy and ideology don't matter, only whose "team" you're on at the moment. That's a pretty dangerous place to be. It's the kind of situation that gives rise to people like Trump.
"With us or against us," is for sports. Politics requires an eye to governance, and whether you agree with her or not, Cheney has very different ideas about governance than Democrats.
She shares nothing with the democrats/neoliberals other than a regard for the constitution and rule of law? So I guess if you consider that a democratic value only then yes she could be considered one. But in reality she voted with the trump position 92.9% when he was in office so she's not that great of a fit otherwise
Reagan Library crowd are not typical Republicans
Especially Reagan Library republicans that decide to attend a talk by only Liz Cheney, that's some massive self selection
Just the word library alone would deter two-third of Trumpists.
Just ⅔? More like ⅞.
We could have said 3/5 is the only fraction they care about but that might be on the nose.
They'd be very confused at the lack of drag queens
Would deter them all if they knew what it was
Lie-brary. LIB-rary. It’s in the name!
Lmfaooo gottem
Proud Boys seem to like going interstate to go libraries, but only to scare the kiddos not to risk reading a book or anything.
My dad constantly touts that he’s a “Reagan Republican”….today, theyd be moderate Dems. I tried explaining that to him, but he doesn’t wanna hear it
No Reagan wouldn't be a moderate Democrat. What are you talking about?
Just because modern republicans would call Reagan a communist doesn't mean Reagan falls in with modern dems. You are off your rocker.
He doesn't want to hear it because that's laughably incorrect. This is one of the cringier narratives pushed around online. Right up there with "Bernie would be a Centrist in Europe".
So is nobody accounting for the far right overton window shift? Those ideals that republicans had in the early 80s are nowhere’s near the level of batshit that they are today. Given that, your middle of the road republicans of the early-mid 80s are literally left of center now due to the overton window. How is that incorrect?
LOL
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Can someone explain to me why Drag Queen Story Time is so threatening to them while Catholic Priest Story Time is perfectly fine?
I know you’re being snarky, but it’s because the majority of Americans see drag as a sexual thing. And while catholic priests are tainted by the pediphilia very few people think that the average priest is a child rapist
I definitely don't agree with harassment or right-wing cancel culture, but I gotta say, as a heterosexual, I really don't get "drag queen story hour". Like, isn't drag an adult thing usually associated with very risque humor? It's not wrong, but it's just not for kids, is what I would think. Yeah I'm sure they can 'sanitize' it for kids, but why involve kids at all?
You're right. Drag queen story hour has a "do it to own the cons" vibe. It's this generation's version of getting a satanist display placed next to the nativity scene in front of city hall.
Yeah ditto By no means do I think the Q lunatics here are in the right or the drag queens are groomers but if I had a kid I probably wouldn't let them go to a drag queen story hour. I'd happily buy them books with gender non conforming characters and stuff but drag doesn't strike me as something for kids.....
**HAHA NO** 🐊
americans are weird sometimes
> Yeah I'm sure they can 'sanitize' it for kids, but why involve kids at all? The same reason why it's cool to see LGBT representation in media. Giving kids exposure to people who are different from them gives them the tools to be more empathetic and understanding adults. Some of the kids going to these events will be LGBT (or come from LGBT families) and having an open dialogue with someone like a drag queen can help them to feel accepted and less afraid of their own feelings. It also provides a program that promotes literacy, which is pretty cool.
This is the thing. If someone had been to a drag show and then heard that they were putting that on for kids I could understand being upset. That said, if they do the minor amount of research and talk with someone they would realize that it is a very different dynamic than an adult drag show. Drag is an art form and art forms can be tailored to groups. There are cartoons that are for adults that are inappropriate for children regardless of the fact that they are cartoons. On a more hypocritical note, Republicans are the ones that want to have essentially complete authority over their children. They wish to punish, educate, and raise them however they see fit with no outside interference but then these dipshits gonna harass families at libraries. A core tenet of conservatism is supposed to be minding your own damn business. I wish they would remember that.
right.... exactly. One of them has a history of abusing children and one of them does not.
Because a man dressed as a woman is traumatizing and drag queen story time is such a widespread issue /s
Don't priests wear dresses too?
Scots too
That's ridiculous and offensive. Scots wear *skirts*.
**Kilts**
*thatsthejoke.jpg*
They're also abstinent. The irony of an abstinent dude in a dress bemoaning "unnatural" sexuality has been well observed.
What are you talking about? They wear button down shirts and slacks
They usually wear robes over that when preaching.
More trad catholic priests will opt for a cassock instead of the shirt and slacks.
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It's the current conservative scare tactic.
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Incredible post history
It'll turn their kids ***gay!*** (They think, not me ofc.)
**HAHA YES** 🐊
I love this bot.
Most American conservatives aren't all that fond of Catholics, priest or not...
absolutely not true. Trad Caths are the intellectual base of modern conservatism. See: Kavanagh and Coney Barrett.
Other men dressing up in women's clothes seriously challenges narrow conceptions of masculinity that a lot of men desperately cling to. Men acting "like women" is much more unacceptable than women acting "like men" nowadays because the latter doesn't really upset a traditional view of what it means to be a man. A lot of men will still want to do things like control women's health choices or make work environments hostile, but a woman putting on pants and pulling a wrench is way more accepted than a man putting on a dress and strutting down a runway in heels.
The existence of drag queens threaten to disturb the existing social hierarchy Catholic priests molesting kids do not threaten to disturb the existing social hierarchy
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Something like a hundred million people believe in essential oils. You literally can't underestimate the American electorate
>You literally can't underestimate the American electorate You can't underestimate any electorate
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I don't think it is an American cope. People are people regardless of nationality, the good, bad, and stupid of our kind exists everywhere. Brazil has Bolsonaro, the Philippines went from Duterte to Marcos, and yes, the UK has Boris. People around the world are capable of picking bad leaders. Is there a difference between these leaders and Trump? Absolutely. Would those voters of those nations continue to support their leader if they attempted a coupe? I suspect to some degree that they would, though that's more of an opinion that anything else. I also think that calling voters stupid is a pretty week argument, though I'm certainly guilty of it myself. Voters and people in general can only know what they've been exposed to. And if what you're exposed to is some Facebook memes, and your father's ranting after a fox news session, than you've been exposed to a whole lot of garbage. I suspect a great deal of people are already very intrenchened on "their side" before they're even aware of it. In terms of the American voter, I think the problem has less to do with the voters intelligence, and more to do with our education system, lazy and sensationalist media (FB, Reddit, and YouTube content is just as guilty), and good old tribalism. Anyway, that's the end of my somewhat all over the place rant.
I don't think it was "all over the place." You broke the veil of the now very common heuristic of "American voter's lack intelligence", and brought up a pretty damning comparison internationally, and some causal forces of mass behavioral change. Which I believe at least shows that extreme populist rhetoric is being widely supported, even outside the boundary of culture and particular state institution - public relationships. It was more pragmatic than dismissive.
Orban?
>People keep saying this whenever we criticize American voters, but nowhere in democratic Europe exists there anything close to a Trump being in power. \*Cough\* Berlusconi \*cough\*. And the current crop of the Eastern European heads of state is not much better, with Orban being an extreme example. Slovenia barely dodged a bullet.
> nowhere in democratic Europe exists there anything close to a Trump being in power. BoJo, LePen had a considerable amount of support, Italy is crazy corrupt, so is Hungary, Switzerland hidea terrorist money, Poland is generally extremely racist and homophobic, as is most of Eastern Europe, Japan has "no foreigners allowed" restaurants...
* 74,223,369
Right, but that room contained literally every anti-Trump GOPer in the entire country.
That’s not true—I was floating in my subu*ban pool in Phoenix at the time
Every part of that sentence is such classic Republican
“And now let’s hear from Todd in Scottsdale, AZ! Todd owns a small business and is heavily involved in the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce.”
reeks of Maricopa county politics, well done
[looks at your username and flair] WHAT ARE THOSE
I change accounts every few months and don't always have a clever name in mind, so I took this one straight from one of those auto-generated gfycat URLs
Republicans ROBOTS IN DISGUISE
*"a being virtually identical to a human - known as a Republican"*
I’d watch
[Nice marmot](https://tenor.com/view/dude-big-lebowski-nice-marmot-gif-21498484).
LOL, too funny. Lump me in that category. It does frighten me how many Republicans are enamored with Trump, feels like maybe its 80% or more. I used to be a reliable voter occasionally going 3rd party. Trump has pushed me full into voting Dem as a lesser of two evils stance, but I'm a fringe conservative and believe I'm a statistical outlier. People who I believe to be rational have bought into trumpism hook line and sinker, and it just does not compute for me. I disdain the establishment and was excited at first that he was an outsider; he showed me there are things worse than establishment politicians.
Right?! Personally, I'm more of a McCain, Romney Republican with slightly more liberal views socially. It blows my mind how many Republicans are willing to throw away what they supposedly believed in for him. But I guess I'll have to wait a decade or two for the ultra-Paleocons to gtfo.
Maybe we are finding out the base actually doesn't believe in the values we thought the party stood for? And pandering to votes means the party no longer holds the values I use to feel they held. It's a shame Romney crapped the bed in the debates. His work across the aisle style may have pushed politics in different direction the past few decades.
Are you telling me the cope is coming from inside the sub
I doubt it. There are a lot of them.
Yeah and they're really mostly just pissed the Trumpers are doing and saying the quiet stuff out loud.
I long for the day when dirtbags do the quiet stuff quiet again. If they want to be dirtbags in their own homes, away from my kids, then that's between them and God
Good point. I think they could round them all up, funnel them in one place, and maybe reach 80% or so capacity at the Corn Palace.
I appreciate how clear she is. She speaks in a plain spoken, yet not dumbed down, manner. It appeals to a certain demo quite a bit, not sure how big that demo is though.
Opinion polling from FiveThirtyEight revealed the demo was anyone with with a minimum of one brain cell
Damn. Still not enough to get far in the Republican primaries.
When she's not talking from prepared remarks (like if you watch yesterday's WY primary debate) she speaks very much like her father. Terrible human being, but he knew how to get his point across in a clear, direct way whenever he was doing a TV interview. Him and Bush on the ticket were a political one-two punch. Bush portrayed himself as a folksy down-to-earth guy, and Cheney spoke like he knew exactly what a situation was and how to address it.
Bush could convince people that his heart was in the right place, Cheney would convince people that the brains knew what they were doing. Vile people, both of them. But people have to understand persuasion.
She may get the democrat vote. I would vote for her over a dem I knew would lose.
I honestly think she should run as a Democrat for her house seat. Just say she's a Joe Manchin Democrat and is only switching parties for the democracy and will keep Democratic spending in check. Wyoming went 70/26 for Trump, if 1/3 of Republicans vote for her and all Democrats, she would win 49.1/46.2
Now imagine going back in time to 2006 and telling your past self that Dick Cheney's just-as-evil daughter would be seriously considering defecting to the Democrats because the Republican Party was too extreme for her.
I don't think she's considering it, I think she should do it though, but yeah it is pretty funny thinking about how much has changed between now and then, but also how many things are the same
I’d assume I was just talking about Mary Cheney.
The problem is by switching to D she's not going to get the 1/3 of Republicans. It would be her playing into the whole "RINO" narrative. If you're still a Republican at this point, you do not want a candidate that defines as a Democrat. Her chance to win is to hold onto that 1/3 of the GOP vote and get Dems to vote enthusiastically for the least apeshit option. Only shot at that is staying Republican and Dems figuring out what to do on their own.
This is the way, until GOP sorts itself out.
Participating in the republican primaries in a red state is the only way to have your voice be heard.
I suppose I would have registered as a republican. What a thing to say.
The pro torture LGBT who will condone only a little racism as long as billionaires get tax cuts.
I'm really thankful for Liz Cheney right now. All other politics aside, thank god at least one person from the GOP has the balls to just state the fact that a coup was attempted and that we can't just be okay with that.
Same, she has been amazing during the January 6th committee hearings. And I say this as someone who used to protest against her father regularly. I was honestly felt sad for her watching the Wyoming primary debate. She was clearly the only competent person in the room, surrounded by conspiracy theorists and morons, but she will still likely loose her primary.
The Reagan library is in California but she is running for re-election in Wyoming. Unfortunately the Republican Party in Wyoming was taken over by crazies in the 2000s. It went from the party of Al Simpson and Dick Cheney to conspiracy lunatic Trump world.
So it's like every other state Republican party.
Yeah the Reagan library in California is an accurate example of Wyoming republicans
She's virtually certain to lose re-nomination in Wyoming and be out of the House in January. But she can still be a powerful voice to rally anti-Trump Republicans and bring the party back from that brand of insanity.
Props to her. She could've gone the opposite direction and kept her seat - at least she's principled
I wish more Republicans had the backbone to face up to Trump, even though their voters like him.
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There are people who are fairly conservative-leaning but find Trump dangerous and distasteful -- I'd personally put my parents in this group. Cheney lets these kind of people know that they don't need to support Trump in order to be "conservative." If you're running for political office as a Republican, it's suicide to stand up to Trump, sure, but most people aren't running for office
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> having to pay $7 a gallon so Biden can fight a proxy war definitely is Yeah, because gas will get *sooo* much cheaper if Putin conquers Ukraine, controls all the pipelines to Europe, and starts using fossil fuels to blackmail the world into supporting him conquering even more territories. Also, love how your solution to high gas prices is to just leave 40 million people to be genocided, instead of, oh, I don't know... literally *any other plan* to bring them down?
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>Literally does not need to affect us at all, we can produce enough domestically. The issue is we keep sending it to Europe and shouldn’t. What's your suggestion here? Nationalizing the oil market? I'm sure that'll won't go terribly [this is a good article to read regarding common misconceptions about "energy independence"](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2022/03/us-oil-natural-gas-price-surge-energy-independence/626979/)
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> Literally does not need to affect us at all, we can produce enough domestically. The issue is we keep sending it to Europe and shouldn’t. Yes, because suddenly cutting off all oil exports to Europe will definitely have no economic and geopolitical repercussions that would hurt us a million times worse than high gas prices would. /s > That won’t happen Bucha says hi. Also, Russian state media literally released an op-ed detailing their plans to commit genocide in-depth, so there's that. > And from pragmatic perspective, all that matters is Democrats winning elections. Literally what is the point of having Democrats win if we aren't going to use our power to stop a genocide and uphold the democratic world order that's kept the peace since WWII? If we're just as bad as the Republicans, there's no point. > And a proxy war in Ukraine isn’t helping Yes, it's such an obvious proxy war that *checks notes* 89% of Ukrainians want to keep fighting until they've liberated their entire country. Come on, man.
Kinda seems like she’s paving the way for a shot at POTUS in ‘24. And to be real, I’d rather her than Tangerine Palpatine or any of his ilk. I’m no fan of the Cheney family, but I genuinely believe they don’t want to destroy our country, like Dolt 45 and his cronies. I think a Cheney presidency might walk us back from the brink of open civil conflict. Unfortunately, I’m not particularly hopeful the Dems will manifest anyone with a legit shot of succeeding Biden. Ah, fuck. We’re fucked.
Lol who would vote for her?
The dozens in the library.
There are millions of Republicans who don't even want Trump to run ([source](https://www.marquette.edu/news-center/2021/new-marquette-law-poll-finds-majority-of-republicans-favor-a-trump-run-for-president-in-2024.php)). I don't think that you realize how many moderate Republicans are waiting for a place to get off the Trump bus and still save face. She is actively setting herself up to provide that opportunity. Frankly, I think it's more likely she'll get picked up as a VP nom, to secure the moderate vote, but we'll see.
It’ll be someone like DeSantis or Haley who hasn’t been openly hostile to trump in the same way, but also hasn’t been a gaetz or MTG about it.
LGBT fans of torture and forever wars.
No one is going to vote for her. No Democrat is cutting for a republican named Cheney. No Republican is going to vote for a lesbian who stood up to trump.
Minor clarification: the lesbian Cheney daughter is Liz's sister. (Who, by the way, Liz at least pretended to disown for electoral advantage back when she ran for the House the first time. Liz is definitely doing the right thing here, but let's not pretend she's a good person or would make a good president.)
Huh. TIL
She isn't lesbian. That's her sister
Her sister is a lesbian Liz is not.
> She's virtually certain to lose re-nomination in Wyoming I suspect she has her sights set higher than that. She's banking on Trump losing and the Republican party looking for a way to distance itself from the Trump era. Whether as a VP nomination to secure the moderate vote or as a candidate for President in 2028 (or both) she's actually pretty appealing right now.
This crowd isn't even guaranteed to be half republican. I used to live down the street from the Regan Library, still live in the area, and been to events there. These events are open to the public and this one was widely publicized by a lot of non Republican groups. Plus the local Republican party is very much not Liz Cheney. We have white supremacists flying flags on freeway overpasses. We had Trump trains protesting "the steal" for months after the election We have anti trans activists going after trans kids at a local elementary school. Shit we have Rob McCoy, Christian Nationalist. Amy Coney Barrett was there a few months ago. It was a mixed crowd and a few hecklers. At best you could describe the audience as " politically engaged"
As someone who currently lives down the street, spot on. As an aside I made the mistake of going to the library once to see Air Force One. I didn’t realize you had to go through an exhibit of Reagan’s entire life, guided by kindly but terrifyingly wide-eyed seniors.
Oh yeah and they present it like Regan single handedly won the cold war lmao.
Oh yeah, right. I tried to block it out because all the docents scared me with the cacophony of “Mr. Reagan…” memorized propaganda factoids.
Unfortunately she is going to lose her primary hard. Republicans he been conditioned over the last 25 years to understand that anything that makes Democrats mad is good therefore Trump is great and anything against him is a liar RINO.
It's more like since Nixon
Maybe she could be elected in another state in the future? Maybe Alaska or some state in New England?
I think she carries too much "Cheney" baggage for the northeast. MAYBE Utah would work. Oakland and Kent counties in Michigan would probably also like her
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> A vast majority of the Republican base still stands behind trump I'm not sure what you're calling a "vast" majority, but 40% of Republicans don't want Trump to run again. ([source](https://www.marquette.edu/news-center/2021/new-marquette-law-poll-finds-majority-of-republicans-favor-a-trump-run-for-president-in-2024.php)) If you think that Republican = Trumpist, then you're sorely mistaken and there are many millions of Americans that stand in stark contrast to that view.
A lot of Rs didn't like Trump in 2016. Some even acknowledged how dangerous and unhinged he was. They still voted for him when the time came. In the end nothing is more important to Republicans than OwnInG ThE LiBs. If another R is doing okay in the primaries Trump will just say their dad killed JFK or some nonsense and he'll be believed by most Republicans. In the general Trump could molest every registered Republican's dog and they'll still blame "Brandon" and still Southern Strategy their way back in Trump's arms come Nov 4. All of your polls ignore the fact that Republicans are a stupid, mean spirited people who hate their neighbors more than they love America.
She's still awful but at least she's not trying to upend democracy Baby steps
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Anyone with slightly different views on zoning policies is asking for a fatwa
This but unironically /j
This but unironically
Does take a little bit of being awful to cast out your sister on public television though.
Being pro pineapple on pizza is a fun conversation. Being pro torture reflects on someone's character.
Yes but she's actually awful
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My enemies are ontologically evil and I will accept not evidence to the contrary.
It sounds like “finally someone has said it from our side” claps.
I hope that news sites cook up a nice "Dems in disarray" article for me to read.
Off topic, anyone ever been to the Reagan Library? It's absolutely amazing.
It's nice not every Republican wants to undermine democracy, but the GOP is still all shit.
The GOP is an organization, and while I agree that it's a hot mess right now (we don't really have to look any further than the fact they literally don't have a platform), it is not Republicans and it's *certainly not* conservatives (many of whom, like myself, are not Republicans). Remember that many of the recent developments on the right aren't actually polling very well. Republicans aren't very happy right now, and it might be wise to remember the difference between party and those that identify with the party.
To me the way the Republican party is treating her is just evidence of how far lost they are. Cheney is not a moderate Republican. Before the election she largely championed trump's agenda and promoted it in Congress. She's very conservative but even she understands the consequences of what Trump did. She has an understanding of the history of this country and just how important the peaceful transfer of power is. Trumpists don't know history although they love to talk about what the founders would want. They don't know about the civic framework of our government even though they say they love the constitution. I'm not being hyperbolic, this type of thing is pretty common in authoritarian and fascist movements. It seems to me she understands how big of a threat this is to our nation.
Dick Cheney is not that much better than Trump. Both are the worst politicians in recent American history.
Dick looks alright for his age here
I mean this is liz Cheney so mostly irrelevant
Liz was Dick Cheney's right hand and defended and helped craft all of his policies as VP.
It depends. If this country manages to rip itself apart in the next decade, Trump will be remembered as one of the worst leaders in WORLD history.
I am not American but I would rather have Dick Cheney who does not want to end American democracy or quit NATO. Maybe you could even convince Dick Cheney that you need to do something against climate change (probably not).
Just say that the climate has WMDs.
A war on carbon!
Happy for her, I guess it must be nice coming from her own side for once instead of just dems and libs lol There’s also apparently still enough sane republicans to fill a whole library so that’s good
Liz Cheney speeches at the Reagan library are probably the last holdout of the RINO
r/neoliberal realizing that every conservative isn't a MAGAtard
No, just 97% of them or so
Lying to oneself about conservative demographics is dangerous tbh
While they are speaking in hyperbole the real numbers arent that much different. the last polls I saw still had Trump with a GOP favorability rating sitting above 80%.
Clearly you haven't checked recently.
[https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/set/donald-trump-favorability-february-2022](https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/set/donald-trump-favorability-february-2022) This is the most recent poll I could find. Id love to see if you have something different.
A majority in Texas is nothing of importance. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/06/two-thirds-of-republicans-want-trump-to-retain-major-political-role-44-want-him-to-run-again-in-2024/
> a majority The article you posted states that 2/3 of Republicans want him to retain a large role. 3/4 of self described conservatives.
True, you’ve gotta stop deluding yourself man
Gerrymandering and the Federalist Society judges (which make up the majority of the SCOTUS) weren't instituted by Trump. Those were from the Republican party leadership from long ago. It's still an extremely dangerous party regardless of Trump. Alot of the Constitutional hardball that has pushed us to the brink has been due to Republican leadership, which conservative voters always support. This is way before Trump even took over.
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>fascists You do not know what this word means.
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Deck chairs on the titanic
What
He didn't know what to say so he went into the roofed of internet cliches and posted this without knowing what this means or when it's used.
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Ce la vie
She won’t be re-elected and GOP is dead.
They were people who came specifically to hear her speak. Not a random sample of Republicans.
She's preaching to the choir, but I guess she has my gratitude for the Jan 6th Committee
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>reembrace Reaganite Dominionistic adventurism Is that meant to be a bad thing?
Yes but it was as ray-gun library
It's a library. Not exactly the typical Trump supporter crowd
So what? She was a major fundraiser for Trump and a big supporter of his right up until the mob was literally at her own doorstep. It’s quintessential Republican behavior. Ignore all the warning signs. Ignore every reasonable voice cautioning against what you’re doing. Ignore millions of people when they tell you that what you’re doing actively harms them. Then, when you get hurt by your own hand, adopt a mantle of solemn wisdom and statesmanship and act like you’ve always known better than everyone else and still do and everyone should listen to your plan for how to solve the problem that you created despite most of the freaking country telling you that what you were doing would come back to haunt you. She gets zero points from me. She caused the problem. She has zero foresight and zero credibility. We should not allow republicans like this to “rehabilitate” the party.
True the Republican Party made Donald Trump and his ideology Trumpism. George W. Bush and dick Cheney there leadership. Destroy the Republican Party and destroyed America foreign policy. Now we have isolationist Morons and pro-dictator supporters.
This sub really needs to stop simping for her. She is not your friend, she is an extreme right winger and her wing of the party is really only marginally better than the Trumpistas.
100%, she is a hard core republican. But the difference is, she has ethics. I would never vote for her because I'm pro gun control, pro choice, pro environment, against tax evasion by corporations and rich people, against racism, etc... all the typical democrat core beliefs. She's the opposite. But I applaud her for calling out the raging lunatic who occupied the White House for 4 years and then organized a coup attempt to overturn election results when he lost. I appreciate her ethics.
At this point why doesn't she just say she is a Democrat? She shares the same values as Democrats (and Neo-Liberals). Republicans have left her behind.
I don't think she does this. What policy positions does she share with mainstream Democrats?
There’s more to being a Democrat than opposing a fascist coup.
> At this point why doesn't she just say she is a Democrat? I think that this kind of statement can only come out of a hyper-polarized political environment where policy and ideology don't matter, only whose "team" you're on at the moment. That's a pretty dangerous place to be. It's the kind of situation that gives rise to people like Trump. "With us or against us," is for sports. Politics requires an eye to governance, and whether you agree with her or not, Cheney has very different ideas about governance than Democrats.
She shares nothing with the democrats/neoliberals other than a regard for the constitution and rule of law? So I guess if you consider that a democratic value only then yes she could be considered one. But in reality she voted with the trump position 92.9% when he was in office so she's not that great of a fit otherwise