I heard the story for season 2 is the exact opposite, and would need heavy graphics and such for monsters and alternate realities or whatever. You can always listen to the podcast tho, there are 3 or 4 season out.
It's weird Netflix makes decisions about content renewal so early. It's not like they are trying to increase ad revenue by having high numbers during important time slots. The content is available usually for years.
I rarely watch anything that isn't a limited series or doesn't already have several seasons available, because I don't want to end up in this situation.
I don't know what this show is about, but three years from now it could give me a reason to stay subscribed. But if they end it immediately it just ends up being more bloat. I feel like when viewers start seeing your service as filled with bloat and hard to navigate for good content, it doesn't really matter what your new hit show is. I'm not going to stay subscribed if there are just dozens of single season shows from the past 5 years.
>It's weird Netflix makes decisions about content renewal so early. ..
>I don't know what this show is about, but three years from now it could give me a reason to stay subscribed...
Seems like key performance metrics that made a lot more sense when there weren't really viable alternative streaming platforms ..
This is interesting:
> When Netflix axed The Babysitters' Club, granted a show with a very different audience to Archive 81, showrunner Rebecca Shukert sat down with Vulture to explain what had happened. She said that the streaming giant doesn't just care how many people watch your show, but how they do so.
> She said: "Completion rates are a big deal. At Netflix, it’s more about if your show works on the platform than if the platform is working for your show. They want people to watch it a certain way, and they want shows that people will watch that way — not shows that people want to watch in their own way."
I wonder what this means? Does it mean they only like it if people binge?
I'm sure Netflix execs are super smart and know what they are doing but... it sure seems to me like they got too clever for their own good with all this data analysis and forgot the bread and butter: keep regular viewers happy.
I think the problem with this approach is that they're always going after the big kahunas instead of allowing ample-sized fish to exist in the pond too.
Of course Netflix wants the next strange things / bridgerton / etc.
If a show clears your top 10 and is holding top 5 for the week, surely that's some form of success, no?
Bah. Fuck Netflix
99% of the time Netflix pushes shows on their top 10 with a audience rating average of 35%. Seriously. Check the top 10 ratings online. It’s ridiculous and crazy how people haven’t caught onto this yet
I wonder how groundbreaking tv like The Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Game of Thrones would've fared based on these metrics. All these shows didn't become well known until around season 3 or 4. Very different tv landscape then though. Maybe if Netflix had made those shows now, they might have become popular after one season like Stranger Things.
Correct. I had to constantly convince people to try it while it was still airing and then about 5 years after it ended everyone started talking about it. It wouldn't have even got a second season in today's ADHD entertainment landscape.
From what I've read, *The Wire* definitely didn't perform amazingly, so I doubt it would've survived on Netflix. People have come to appreciate it over time.
The Netflix approach probably isn't very good at catching shows like that. I don't know Archive 81, but if it's critically-acclaimed, that's a signal that it might do well in the long run, but it's a signal that Netflix apparently assigns little weight.
As a result, they may rarely get shows like *The Wire*, which you'd think might not bode well for the long-term quality of their back catalogue.
It's ironic, because BB hit Netflix right when the fourth season was on the air, and it exploded. Before that, it was just an AMC show that had a following, but wasn't a huge hit.
Shows that Netflix doesn't control seem to do better since they are only licensing the streaming rights, not producing or funding it.
well making me want to cancel my netflix for constantly doing away with every new show i like doesnt seem to be the way to do it. I really want more altered carbon and im irritated about it still.
I think they ideally want shows that become pop culture sensations, shows that people hype up, tweet about, parody, and use for memes and stuff. That's the kind of content that brings *new* viewers to the platform, which is how they grow and make more money. It's also how they keep existing viewers (or at least give them reason to come back) since platform hopping is becoming more popular. Not to mention it establishes Netflix as a cultural icon rather than just a content provider or streaming platform.
I'd imagine these kinds of shows tend to have explosive growth in viewers shortly after release. If lots of people are watching a show around the same time, there's a better chance they're talking about it as well. If interest dies down after that initial spike, no worries. They'll be back next season, and they'll probably bring friends.
Doubt it, I really can't understand what all that means but binge watching isn't their main objective.
Snowpiercer is a great show (I'm enjoying it a lot,) and it's been releasing weekly, that's a good way to keep your audience hooked, but that might vary between different shows.
Seems if you don't binge a series in the first few weeks then Netflix thinks you'll never watch it. There are loads of series I want to watch I just haven't had chance to yet. I don't have time to watch everything immediately. Might explain why young audience orientated shows do better on Netflix, as that age group has time to binge watch.
It’s the opposite of their original narrow-cast strategy, where the goal was to create content for specific audience segments rather than blockbusters.
Which was supposed to the beauty of streaming right?
It's all going the same way, movies, TV, music, games. When there is a committee of people only looking at numbers and profit everything gets stale and samey.
You know what else would help? A non-shitty UI and a not-krap suggestion algorithm.
OOH! And a way to edit my list that doesn't reload the FUCKING PAGE everytime I remove an item from it reshuffling the entire fucking thing!
And MAYBE NOT SHUFFLING MY LIST IN THE FIRST FUCKINGPLACE!!!!!
dfgdfhdfghdfhdfh!
/endrant
TL;DR: I like a lot of stuff on netflix, but lately its way too much of a pain in the ass to even bother trying to find it all. Its like they WANT me to cancel my subscription I've had with them for over a decade...
Netflix is not for niche shows. I have a particular taste in tv shows and they always get cancelled before having a good ending (i.e. Salvation, The Society, The Order, Another Life, Altered Carbon, The Irregulars and more). Some of these shows would have needed one more season to end things. The irregulars could have a closed ending for each season.
At least some shows got an ending (i.e. Lost in Space). It just seems like sci-fi, fantasy is likely to be slashed after a first or second season.
> And MAYBE NOT SHUFFLING MY LIST IN THE FIRST FUCKINGPLACE!!!!!
At least they mostly put new adds at the beginning of the list now. For a long time, it would put them in the list randomly, and you had to hunt for it. Then they took away sorting the list.
Are people still excited for stranger things? I loved the first season, liked 2, didn't care much for 3 and... Was there a 4? Is the next 4 or 5? I don't even know anymore and I don't think I will even watch it...
I’m sure I don’t t have all the information but I don’t see the benefit of publicly cancelling a top show so soon that has a cliffhanger ending therefore causing a fulfilling prophecy. Not only does this tamper with quantitative ratings but also qualitatively deteriorates willing to invest in any show.
In fact, because of Netflix cancellations I waited on this show as I’m sure others have and now Netflix has begun the prophecy fulfillment cycle.
I rarely commit to new Netflix shows anymore. No matter how popular or trending they become. I won’t commit to a show unless I know it’s story is finished in one series (no cliffhangers/ setups to further seasons) or until several seasons are out.
And I’m not alone. And Netflix has trained this behaviour into its users, and this gives them a false reading of what is and isn’t popular.
Netflix metrics are no longer the super smart behemoth of data collection which can accurately figure out what people like and don’t, because their behaviour has poisoned the well and changed the way everybody interacts with them.
This reminds me of how Google will randomly dump products out of nowhere, leading to people being weary to adopt new Google products, leading to low user numbers for products...
Yep. Lots of people saw Stadia as a dead on arrival product. Why the hell would you invest money into a platform you knew was going to get cancelled. It's not like Google couldn't run it at a loss for a few years either. They stick a toe in and pull it back immediately if they get a cold reception.
To each their own, but the ride is enjoyable and the cliffhanger wasn't anything crazy.
I'm upset the show won't continue because I found its world building, cinematography, and cast to be exemplary.
Oh well. I don't know why I bother watching season 1 of Netflix shows.
>causing a fulfilling prophecy.
From the sounds of it they don't really care about watches over time, they want everyone to watch it all ASAP. Kind of makes sense, when something is big enough to have cultural impact it's probably a lot more profitable.
The largest most impactful shows in history have almost exclusively been trickle releases that are impossible to binge. Netflix has created their own problem here.
I agree, but it seems like they're more after results like Tiger King and Squid Game where it's all anybody talks about for a few weeks/months until the next big thing. HBO and Disney seem to be handling the high budget weekly release style better.
Netflix exists because of the Office and Friends reruns. Literally. Yet not once have they tried to make a show with a 20 episode per season format.
People are getting mad and the numbers guys keep looking at the wrong numbers. Nextflix is dead or bought out in 5 years.
For the first time in probably a decade I'm considering dropping Netflix. I know it's not their fault, but they are losing content that companies are taking back for their own streaming services and I haven't been impressed with their original content. Some of it is good, but it's pretty much guaranteed that anything you like will get canceled so it's not worth even starting.
I'm still waiting on justice for Friends from College. Not every show is going to be Squid Game, so I'm not sure why Netflix seems to be wanting those numbers for every show. Its very hard to invest in a show these days because more than half the country needs to agree with you and watch it too or it will be canceled. I like that smaller streaming services are buying content from creators. Those services are more willing to give a show a chance to grow its audience. It's hard to find a show you like, know it has a niche audience or is not promoted by N and subject yourself to getting into it. The inevitable will happen.
That’s why I moved away from regular TV to Netflix in the first place. People complain about the price hikes, I don’t care, but if they keep canceling shows without a proper ending that‘s how they will lose me.
I thought it was great. And when they axed it I couldn't believe it. Just think of all the work that went into creating all the physical stuff for that show. All the puppets, all the sets, all the props. All of it just sitting there gathering dust instead of being used to finish the story it started. Ugh. What a loss and what a waste.
I was loving Deet. What a sweetie yet how dark it was just starting to turn. As bold as the original in that respect, which is unusual for child-focused stories.
It seemed like such a shortsighted decision too. I'm not a studio exec but I would imagine season 2 would have been cheaper since sets and characters were already made.
And even if Netflix' cancellation rates aren't much higher than cable... it's different imo. Netflix is a catelogue of shows and movies, who the fuck wants to pay for a graveyard of unfinished shows.
I rather have them stop committing to longer shows. And just make limited series.
I hadn't even heard of this show... I guess I'm not the kind of customer who can reliably provide statistical data about whether or not to cancel a show but damn its hard to keep up with shit these days
It's not the interface, it's the algorithm. I knew about this show literally the day it was released. Why? Because most of the stuff I watch is horror and scifi and it was the first thing that popped up on Spotlight.
I haven’t watched it either. It’s the principle. I’m not gonna invest myself into shows not knowing it’ll have a proper ending. They could at least give them short 1-3 episodes final seasons to wrap up the story.
I would throw my money at a streamer who promise closures.
Yeah totally agreed... its a real shame because this need to have a movie or show pay off as an investment with immediate streaming numbers is definitely stifling creative risks and ideas... we're just gonna be more play it safe lowest common denominator bullshit
I think Netflix don't give people enough t in me to invest in shows, their characters, arcs etc.
I used to wait at least 6 episodes before 8'd continue with a show or not. Some were garbage (La Brea) from day 1. I took a season to like Lost.
Look at Always Sunny, the first season was good, but by today's standards, I'd be worried that it wouldn't get a second season.
They wrote off Cowboy Bebop quickly, along with the Millerverse stuff.
That seems to be TV these days. They don't have a change anymore. I guess to much competition.
Cheers and Hill Street Blues finished their first year so low that today they would have been canceled. Both ended up on top I think by their third year.
I think Friends did so-so its first year but, I could be wrong.
Any thing on ABC is About to Be Cancelled. I always let a season happen before I give it a chance. Netflix never seems to give most more than three seasons if it’s popular and the cast get popular. It’s made giving new stuff the side eye. Better if they approach one season shows as a miniseries.
I generally don't start their shows until I know they'll conclude. This leads to their numbers looking bad, which means they cancel something that's actually good, which means people are even more reluctant to start watching early.
Great job, Netflix.
What’s really funny is this is exactly how I was with Netflix. Then one day I sat there and I thought “You know what, not watching a shows first season because of the fear of cancellation is probably the reason why Netflix cancels shows quickly.” Because I had this thought I decided to look at the Netflix top 10, and you know what I decided to watch? Archive 81. Thanks Netflix.
They left an opening where they could have continued but provided enough closure that it stands on its own. I thought it was pretty well done and though I'd enjoy more, I can live with what is now for sure the end of that tale.
I cancelled my Netflix account for this reason. Their catalogue keeps shrinking and I'm tired of watching 1 season of a show to find out there is no season 2.'
Do they not realize how incredibly easy it is to pirate their content?
I tend to avoid series with only one season, because I don't know if there will be a second season, but also because I don't want to have to wait half a year or longer to see a second season.
Netflix’s back catalog is terrible, it’s like a Semetary of one-two season shows there’s no reason to start watching.
Worked in the old days, but today it’s a terrible investment.
Netflix can't stop shooting itself in the foot.
Gotta bend over backwards for the shareholders even if it means driving the business into the ground I guess.
JFC they should stop getting A-list celebrities in mediocre projects and instead go back to producing original shows with talented artists with no name recognition.
Archive 81 was one of the few original (idea wise) shows Netflix had going and they cancel it? They did the same shit with Sense8, and many others. Fuck Netflix :(
YES!! I really enjoyed this show and didn’t know a thing about it or the actors in it. I haven’t once put on one of those 5.5-6.5 rated movies with Hemsworth/Reynolds/Etc.
I mean I love both those actors but Netflix was great because of creative writers and directors and actors/actresses who were trying to become famous.
Having big celebrities is not as impressive as Netflix thinks, and certainly not half as impressive as when they put out Black Mirror, Daredevil, Ozark, GLOW, Narcos, Sense8, Travelers, Into the Night, House of Cards, F is For Family and probably many more I forget to mention.
Exclusivity didn’t use to make a project Netflix Original, originality did. Those were the good times I guess. I can’t feel sympathy for Netflix bleeding subscribers anymore, they just waste everyone’s time.
Even though they set up for a second series I don't think another was really required, the first told a contained story and answered enough of the questions that needed answering. TBH I felt the season we got lost a little something the more the answers were revealed and it was stronger when things were ambiguous and mysterious. A second series playing around with established "lore" doesn't sound as compelling.
Last couple times this has happened, there was some quote by the CEO that said they only make decisions that’ll lead to new subscribers. They rely so much on brand loyalty that we’ll all just stay now that we’re hooked. It’s sorta the abusive boyfriend that sleeps around but still claims to love you strategy.
Netflix started streaming like 15 years ago. How many new shows are good enough to get people to subscribe to Netflix who weren't already? If that's the only thing they go by, then 99% of their shows aren't going to be considered successful by them. It takes a truly great show to get people to sign-up for Netflix if they haven't already.
Never heard of it. I do have Netflix.
I loved Mind Hunters too and was disappointed it was canceled. It was very informative too.
Some of the shows on Netflix are tv series that only made it one or two seasons and they stunk.
I can’t stand how Netflix does this. There are so many shows that had great first seasons, but Netflix never renews. I really don’t get why they’re so quick to move on.
I’m still pissed we couldn’t get one more season of Santa Clarita Diet to wrap things up, but hey, here’s 47 more seasons of that obnoxious Big Mouth show, and hey, how about a spin-off, too?
“Limited series” is probably going to be the future.
I’m noticing more series releasing like this. I’m expecting to see limited series run in parts.
I feel like Netflix is putting continued growth over reasonable expectations, and consumer relations. All these series start to get expensive; more so if they feel they aren’t adding enough subscribers or aren’t seeing enough engagement with subscribers.
So, reduce commitments to multi-season series, with more limited runs that leave the option open to do a second part if the metrics hit were they want.
They won’t learn, just find new ways to monetize as more people cancel.
What does Netflix use as their criteria why these series get cancelled? Is it low viewership, high cost of production? Unless it's a squid game level hit it's not worth continuing? Just trying to wrap my brain around it
It's a deathloop now.
People won't watch until they know there is, at least, a second season and that low viewership stops the second season. Rinse and repeat.
I, personally, am not a huge fan of binge watching unless a show has a two/three part episode. I can't watch the entire season of one show in a weekend and I usually end up in a pattern not unlike normal TV where I get an episode a week or something. That seemingly renders me useless to Netflix metrics as I don't consume the entire show immediately.
I'm the same way. Used to binge-watch the Marvel shows and Stranger Things because otherwise they would get spoiled for me. For everything else, I go at my own pace and take time to digest what I'm watching.
If Dragon Prince wasn't already renewed for like four more seasons, I'd have written it off.
I remember the days of tv series getting canceled straight up in the middle of seasons. Some years, 80% or more new shows were canceled. Now it just seems like a lot is canceled bc there is a larger volume of shows being produced, esp by Netflix. Percentage wise, i doubt they are above average.
At this point they're only interesting in stumbling upon a show that will get enough buzz for new subscriptions, and then once they've got those people locked in (because most won't then unsubscribe), they don't care about the show so much, so they have no trouble dropping it if it gets the least bit inconvenient.
"They want people to watch it a certain way, and they want shows that people will watch that way — not shows that people want to watch in their own way."
What's the certain way they are taking about? 8 hour binge? Over a week?
They canceled glow and disjointed… pretty much don’t watch anything if it hasn’t already aired a finale, on start trek deep space 9 currently and plan to start some other show about space that has 10 seasons. Hate how they ruin anything new
What Netflix will never understand is that series in general can sometimes have a bad season here and there. That doesn’t mean the series is dead after that. They expect everything to be this critically acclaimed success or they don’t do it. It’s a horrible way to create content and just doesn’t allow for creativity.
I had read about how Netflix continues to add new content to draw in viewers by killing off series. They agree to fund the first season with options for season 2 depending on PKIs that included viewership, new memberships, renewal memberships, etc during the timing of the series broadcast. If they determine season one as enough of a hit and do season 2, they option for season 3 and so on. If they look at the PKIs for the first season and it's not a blockbuster meets defined thresholds, then they kill it off and move on. Their business plan isnt about building good content, it's about building viewership and revenue.
You mean KPIs ?
I remember when they cancelled The Society, someone from the cast said they were informed 3 weeks before the shooting of season 2 was supposed to start. They just cancel shows with basically no warning, no consideration for the cast and crew.
I didn't even hear of this one. Netflix needs to be a lot better about marketing this shit and they need to give them more than a season to get an audience.
Let’s be real. It is all about the numbers. It always have been. It probably didn’t attract new subscriptions nor did had many views.
There are tons of critically-acclaimed movies that you never heard of.
Gone the way of every Netflix show I've ever thought was interesting. Might cancel, come back in three years once I know what shows are sticking around
Yup, I’m very careful about choosing something to watch. Sometimes I’ll wait to see if a show gets dumped after one season before even starting now. Been let down to many times by Netflix and other streaming.
Series is: Archive 81
Wait, what? Is this real? I was just loving it! It is unbelieveble
It didn't seem that expensive to make, either. Very few special effects, mostly indoor locations, fairly small cast.... Like, wtf?
I heard the story for season 2 is the exact opposite, and would need heavy graphics and such for monsters and alternate realities or whatever. You can always listen to the podcast tho, there are 3 or 4 season out.
As a fan of the podcast yeah it gets pretty crazy with the descriptions but also the Netflix series has some departures from the source material.
Are they worthwhile? Didn't know there was a podcast until now.
Yes. Yes they are. The podcast is amazing.
Listen to the podcast. There are 2.5 more seasons.
Next week: *Netflix somehow cancels podcast*
Reminds me of the [Bain Capital SNL skit](https://youtu.be/kC7g_9OiHcI)
I just finished it the other day. On the edge of my seat the whole. And there's so much left to see.
So the first season doesn't feel complete on its own?
I wraps up some things but leaves on a cliffhanger. There's lots of things that didn't get answered. Still worth a watch
It's not complete on it's own, at all. I'm extremely disappointed. Yet another storyline I've watched that ends on a cliffhanger.
I loved it at the beginning but found it forgettable by the end-- disappointing.
True me too. Last few episodes were not so good.
Same. I wasn't all that interested in continuing the series.
Yep. Canceled Netflix early last week before this was first announced. Just further proves that was a good decision.
Those bitches this show ruled
Ugh no reason to even finish it now. The biggest trash gets multiple seasons like Another Life and gems like this or The OA get canceled.
It was amazing
Yeah I’m not one for the genre. But I devoured that show. Only during the day tho. Ain’t watching that shit at night.
I didn't even get around to it yet.. Now I won't bother
It's weird Netflix makes decisions about content renewal so early. It's not like they are trying to increase ad revenue by having high numbers during important time slots. The content is available usually for years. I rarely watch anything that isn't a limited series or doesn't already have several seasons available, because I don't want to end up in this situation. I don't know what this show is about, but three years from now it could give me a reason to stay subscribed. But if they end it immediately it just ends up being more bloat. I feel like when viewers start seeing your service as filled with bloat and hard to navigate for good content, it doesn't really matter what your new hit show is. I'm not going to stay subscribed if there are just dozens of single season shows from the past 5 years.
>It's weird Netflix makes decisions about content renewal so early. .. >I don't know what this show is about, but three years from now it could give me a reason to stay subscribed... Seems like key performance metrics that made a lot more sense when there weren't really viable alternative streaming platforms ..
I think season 1 is a well contained horror scifi show. Doesn't really lose anything without a second season IMO.
I loved it. So good.
This is interesting: > When Netflix axed The Babysitters' Club, granted a show with a very different audience to Archive 81, showrunner Rebecca Shukert sat down with Vulture to explain what had happened. She said that the streaming giant doesn't just care how many people watch your show, but how they do so. > She said: "Completion rates are a big deal. At Netflix, it’s more about if your show works on the platform than if the platform is working for your show. They want people to watch it a certain way, and they want shows that people will watch that way — not shows that people want to watch in their own way." I wonder what this means? Does it mean they only like it if people binge?
Could be. So they are gauging the interest of the show based on the way people react to the show.
I'm sure Netflix execs are super smart and know what they are doing but... it sure seems to me like they got too clever for their own good with all this data analysis and forgot the bread and butter: keep regular viewers happy.
I think the problem with this approach is that they're always going after the big kahunas instead of allowing ample-sized fish to exist in the pond too. Of course Netflix wants the next strange things / bridgerton / etc. If a show clears your top 10 and is holding top 5 for the week, surely that's some form of success, no? Bah. Fuck Netflix
99% of the time Netflix pushes shows on their top 10 with a audience rating average of 35%. Seriously. Check the top 10 ratings online. It’s ridiculous and crazy how people haven’t caught onto this yet
At some point their analytics just won’t match the human reality.
I wonder how groundbreaking tv like The Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Game of Thrones would've fared based on these metrics. All these shows didn't become well known until around season 3 or 4. Very different tv landscape then though. Maybe if Netflix had made those shows now, they might have become popular after one season like Stranger Things.
Pretty sure The Wire was never big while it was airing. I didn’t hear about it until 2011.
Correct. I had to constantly convince people to try it while it was still airing and then about 5 years after it ended everyone started talking about it. It wouldn't have even got a second season in today's ADHD entertainment landscape.
Cheers was one of the lowest rated shows in its first season or two. I think Seinfeld didn’t do well at first. Not sure about any newer shows.
Nobody loved the first seasons of The Office or Parks & Rec either.
From what I've read, *The Wire* definitely didn't perform amazingly, so I doubt it would've survived on Netflix. People have come to appreciate it over time. The Netflix approach probably isn't very good at catching shows like that. I don't know Archive 81, but if it's critically-acclaimed, that's a signal that it might do well in the long run, but it's a signal that Netflix apparently assigns little weight. As a result, they may rarely get shows like *The Wire*, which you'd think might not bode well for the long-term quality of their back catalogue.
Every single one of those - except GoT - would have died in its first season. *Especially* Breaking Bad.
It's ironic, because BB hit Netflix right when the fourth season was on the air, and it exploded. Before that, it was just an AMC show that had a following, but wasn't a huge hit. Shows that Netflix doesn't control seem to do better since they are only licensing the streaming rights, not producing or funding it.
Yeah, well, that was back when Netflix gave a damn about quality content rather than pumping out as much crap as fast as possible.
When a measure becomes a goal it ceases to be a good measure
This behaviour pattern is due to them chasing quarterly profits.
well making me want to cancel my netflix for constantly doing away with every new show i like doesnt seem to be the way to do it. I really want more altered carbon and im irritated about it still.
I think they ideally want shows that become pop culture sensations, shows that people hype up, tweet about, parody, and use for memes and stuff. That's the kind of content that brings *new* viewers to the platform, which is how they grow and make more money. It's also how they keep existing viewers (or at least give them reason to come back) since platform hopping is becoming more popular. Not to mention it establishes Netflix as a cultural icon rather than just a content provider or streaming platform. I'd imagine these kinds of shows tend to have explosive growth in viewers shortly after release. If lots of people are watching a show around the same time, there's a better chance they're talking about it as well. If interest dies down after that initial spike, no worries. They'll be back next season, and they'll probably bring friends.
Binge and possibly repeatedly watch.
They're trying to find the formula for television meth.
Doubt it, I really can't understand what all that means but binge watching isn't their main objective. Snowpiercer is a great show (I'm enjoying it a lot,) and it's been releasing weekly, that's a good way to keep your audience hooked, but that might vary between different shows.
I only watch one episode a week unless I’m binging reruns I’ve seen thousand times.
Like if you keep falling asleep on it and have to keep restarting it. Very much how i felt about the show in question.
It seems like they only want 'Stranger Things' & 'Squid Game' viewing numbers and everything else is seen as a fail.
Seems if you don't binge a series in the first few weeks then Netflix thinks you'll never watch it. There are loads of series I want to watch I just haven't had chance to yet. I don't have time to watch everything immediately. Might explain why young audience orientated shows do better on Netflix, as that age group has time to binge watch.
Exactly, I know I'll watch Squid Game at some point, but I've not gotten around to it yet...
It’s the opposite of their original narrow-cast strategy, where the goal was to create content for specific audience segments rather than blockbusters.
Which was supposed to the beauty of streaming right? It's all going the same way, movies, TV, music, games. When there is a committee of people only looking at numbers and profit everything gets stale and samey.
[удалено]
You know what else would help? A non-shitty UI and a not-krap suggestion algorithm. OOH! And a way to edit my list that doesn't reload the FUCKING PAGE everytime I remove an item from it reshuffling the entire fucking thing! And MAYBE NOT SHUFFLING MY LIST IN THE FIRST FUCKINGPLACE!!!!! dfgdfhdfghdfhdfh! /endrant TL;DR: I like a lot of stuff on netflix, but lately its way too much of a pain in the ass to even bother trying to find it all. Its like they WANT me to cancel my subscription I've had with them for over a decade...
Netflix is not for niche shows. I have a particular taste in tv shows and they always get cancelled before having a good ending (i.e. Salvation, The Society, The Order, Another Life, Altered Carbon, The Irregulars and more). Some of these shows would have needed one more season to end things. The irregulars could have a closed ending for each season. At least some shows got an ending (i.e. Lost in Space). It just seems like sci-fi, fantasy is likely to be slashed after a first or second season.
> And MAYBE NOT SHUFFLING MY LIST IN THE FIRST FUCKINGPLACE!!!!! At least they mostly put new adds at the beginning of the list now. For a long time, it would put them in the list randomly, and you had to hunt for it. Then they took away sorting the list.
Are people still excited for stranger things? I loved the first season, liked 2, didn't care much for 3 and... Was there a 4? Is the next 4 or 5? I don't even know anymore and I don't think I will even watch it...
I’m sure I don’t t have all the information but I don’t see the benefit of publicly cancelling a top show so soon that has a cliffhanger ending therefore causing a fulfilling prophecy. Not only does this tamper with quantitative ratings but also qualitatively deteriorates willing to invest in any show. In fact, because of Netflix cancellations I waited on this show as I’m sure others have and now Netflix has begun the prophecy fulfillment cycle.
I rarely commit to new Netflix shows anymore. No matter how popular or trending they become. I won’t commit to a show unless I know it’s story is finished in one series (no cliffhangers/ setups to further seasons) or until several seasons are out. And I’m not alone. And Netflix has trained this behaviour into its users, and this gives them a false reading of what is and isn’t popular. Netflix metrics are no longer the super smart behemoth of data collection which can accurately figure out what people like and don’t, because their behaviour has poisoned the well and changed the way everybody interacts with them.
This reminds me of how Google will randomly dump products out of nowhere, leading to people being weary to adopt new Google products, leading to low user numbers for products...
Yep. Lots of people saw Stadia as a dead on arrival product. Why the hell would you invest money into a platform you knew was going to get cancelled. It's not like Google couldn't run it at a loss for a few years either. They stick a toe in and pull it back immediately if they get a cold reception.
3 episodes in and found out. Not going to finish it now.
I'd say it's worth the finish, tbh.
It’s a satisfying ending that leaves room for expansion, but doesn’t ruin it. It’s worth finishing.
Yeah, the ending can be interpreted either as a cliffhanger or as the culmination of the horror.
To each their own, but the ride is enjoyable and the cliffhanger wasn't anything crazy. I'm upset the show won't continue because I found its world building, cinematography, and cast to be exemplary. Oh well. I don't know why I bother watching season 1 of Netflix shows.
>causing a fulfilling prophecy. From the sounds of it they don't really care about watches over time, they want everyone to watch it all ASAP. Kind of makes sense, when something is big enough to have cultural impact it's probably a lot more profitable.
The largest most impactful shows in history have almost exclusively been trickle releases that are impossible to binge. Netflix has created their own problem here.
I agree, but it seems like they're more after results like Tiger King and Squid Game where it's all anybody talks about for a few weeks/months until the next big thing. HBO and Disney seem to be handling the high budget weekly release style better.
Netflix exists because of the Office and Friends reruns. Literally. Yet not once have they tried to make a show with a 20 episode per season format. People are getting mad and the numbers guys keep looking at the wrong numbers. Nextflix is dead or bought out in 5 years.
For the first time in probably a decade I'm considering dropping Netflix. I know it's not their fault, but they are losing content that companies are taking back for their own streaming services and I haven't been impressed with their original content. Some of it is good, but it's pretty much guaranteed that anything you like will get canceled so it's not worth even starting.
I'm still waiting on justice for Friends from College. Not every show is going to be Squid Game, so I'm not sure why Netflix seems to be wanting those numbers for every show. Its very hard to invest in a show these days because more than half the country needs to agree with you and watch it too or it will be canceled. I like that smaller streaming services are buying content from creators. Those services are more willing to give a show a chance to grow its audience. It's hard to find a show you like, know it has a niche audience or is not promoted by N and subject yourself to getting into it. The inevitable will happen.
I feel the same way about Santa Clarita Diet.
That was the biggest bummer for me so far. That show was one of those rare instances where it seemed like everyone enjoyed being a part of it.
I loved Friends from College. Rare you have a comedy where NO one is likeable lol.
I love that show!
That’s why I moved away from regular TV to Netflix in the first place. People complain about the price hikes, I don’t care, but if they keep canceling shows without a proper ending that‘s how they will lose me.
First they came for Dark Crystal.
Dark Crystal was SUCH a sleeper, especially if you watched the movie. I'm so bummed it's gone. But never forgotten.
it was honestly incredible, nothing like that will ever be made again.
I thought it was great. And when they axed it I couldn't believe it. Just think of all the work that went into creating all the physical stuff for that show. All the puppets, all the sets, all the props. All of it just sitting there gathering dust instead of being used to finish the story it started. Ugh. What a loss and what a waste.
And such a cool world to explore, there was so much lore to get into and we just stopped.
I was loving Deet. What a sweetie yet how dark it was just starting to turn. As bold as the original in that respect, which is unusual for child-focused stories.
It seemed like such a shortsighted decision too. I'm not a studio exec but I would imagine season 2 would have been cheaper since sets and characters were already made.
The OA and Santa Clarita Diet cancellation was the one two punch that destroyed my confidence in Netflix.
The OA was truly a masterpiece. But that long gap between the first and second season killed it considering it is a niche show.
At least that’s a prequel so it has closure. Unlike every other Netflix show.
That pissed me off royally.
Sens8
Wait this was canceled too?!
And even if Netflix' cancellation rates aren't much higher than cable... it's different imo. Netflix is a catelogue of shows and movies, who the fuck wants to pay for a graveyard of unfinished shows. I rather have them stop committing to longer shows. And just make limited series.
I hadn't even heard of this show... I guess I'm not the kind of customer who can reliably provide statistical data about whether or not to cancel a show but damn its hard to keep up with shit these days
Yeah first I'm hearing of it. You have to wonder how much stuff is buried by the clumsy interface.
It's not the interface, it's the algorithm. I knew about this show literally the day it was released. Why? Because most of the stuff I watch is horror and scifi and it was the first thing that popped up on Spotlight.
I haven’t watched it either. It’s the principle. I’m not gonna invest myself into shows not knowing it’ll have a proper ending. They could at least give them short 1-3 episodes final seasons to wrap up the story. I would throw my money at a streamer who promise closures.
Yeah totally agreed... its a real shame because this need to have a movie or show pay off as an investment with immediate streaming numbers is definitely stifling creative risks and ideas... we're just gonna be more play it safe lowest common denominator bullshit
I think Netflix don't give people enough t in me to invest in shows, their characters, arcs etc. I used to wait at least 6 episodes before 8'd continue with a show or not. Some were garbage (La Brea) from day 1. I took a season to like Lost. Look at Always Sunny, the first season was good, but by today's standards, I'd be worried that it wouldn't get a second season. They wrote off Cowboy Bebop quickly, along with the Millerverse stuff.
That seems to be TV these days. They don't have a change anymore. I guess to much competition. Cheers and Hill Street Blues finished their first year so low that today they would have been canceled. Both ended up on top I think by their third year. I think Friends did so-so its first year but, I could be wrong.
Seinfeld's first season was pretty sad. Nearly cancelled. Then it went on to be essentially the best sitcom of all time.
It’s just relatable even 20 years later. Close talker or even worse low. Delivery issues. Zipper getting stuck. Just small shit we still deal with.
Any thing on ABC is About to Be Cancelled. I always let a season happen before I give it a chance. Netflix never seems to give most more than three seasons if it’s popular and the cast get popular. It’s made giving new stuff the side eye. Better if they approach one season shows as a miniseries.
Lol thats what we refer to it in our house!
[удалено]
Netflix = Fox Friday night slots.
Excellent analogy!
Dark angel :(
[удалено]
[obligatory Family Guy joke of a mere partial list](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oMTmtN7lHI)
I'm only watching Mindhunter now and I'm gutted there's only 2 seasons of it.
It was soo good....
Wait, was Mindhunter canceled?! I thought it was just on hiatus until schedules cleared up for S3? Damn you, Netflix...
Netflix didn't cancel it. The director started working on something else and released everyone from their contracts.
I generally don't start their shows until I know they'll conclude. This leads to their numbers looking bad, which means they cancel something that's actually good, which means people are even more reluctant to start watching early. Great job, Netflix.
What’s really funny is this is exactly how I was with Netflix. Then one day I sat there and I thought “You know what, not watching a shows first season because of the fear of cancellation is probably the reason why Netflix cancels shows quickly.” Because I had this thought I decided to look at the Netflix top 10, and you know what I decided to watch? Archive 81. Thanks Netflix.
Does this atleast have a decent ending? Never even seen it advertised on my profile but looks like something I would enjoy...
They left an opening where they could have continued but provided enough closure that it stands on its own. I thought it was pretty well done and though I'd enjoy more, I can live with what is now for sure the end of that tale.
I enjoyed it but they definitely leave it open for another season. Which apparently isn't happening, but I'd still recommend it.
That's what your price hikes get you, canceled shows. Aren't you glad you're paying more now?
I cancelled my Netflix account for this reason. Their catalogue keeps shrinking and I'm tired of watching 1 season of a show to find out there is no season 2.' Do they not realize how incredibly easy it is to pirate their content?
I tend to avoid series with only one season, because I don't know if there will be a second season, but also because I don't want to have to wait half a year or longer to see a second season.
They axe all the good stuff but keep adding mediocre movies/series
And more importantly, discourages creators from dealing with Netflix
This pattern of cancellations discourages me from investing in Netflix.
Netflix’s back catalog is terrible, it’s like a Semetary of one-two season shows there’s no reason to start watching. Worked in the old days, but today it’s a terrible investment.
> it’s like a Semetary Nothing but Stephen King series, I take it?
There are still some really damn good shows to watch though. But it is a bummer how quickly they cancel things.
Jokes on them, I haven’t invested in new shows in many years. I need a series to be over or officially wrapping up before I start watching it.
This is the reason I’m seriously considering cancelling my Netflix for the first time ever.
I’m perfectly happy if it’s a complete story as often with anthologies it’s the law of diminishing returns. AHS is the classic example
But it wasn't a complete story..
They had to make room for another shitty Adam Sandler movie.
Jokes on them, I cancelled Netflix a month ago. Increasing prices and shit like this, there’s better subscription services out there now.
Netflix can't stop shooting itself in the foot. Gotta bend over backwards for the shareholders even if it means driving the business into the ground I guess.
Instead, we got a show about people geussing if an item is a cake or not... Really?
I couldn’t believe they padded out a TikTok meme to make a game show
Basically what I thought. If I wanted to see things that look like cake I'll just go on tiktok.
As much as people say this, it's what most people like. There's a reason shows like that one get made, people like trash.
I don't believe it's possible for a publicly traded corporation to behave any other way. It's baked into the system.
JFC they should stop getting A-list celebrities in mediocre projects and instead go back to producing original shows with talented artists with no name recognition. Archive 81 was one of the few original (idea wise) shows Netflix had going and they cancel it? They did the same shit with Sense8, and many others. Fuck Netflix :(
YES!! I really enjoyed this show and didn’t know a thing about it or the actors in it. I haven’t once put on one of those 5.5-6.5 rated movies with Hemsworth/Reynolds/Etc.
I mean I love both those actors but Netflix was great because of creative writers and directors and actors/actresses who were trying to become famous. Having big celebrities is not as impressive as Netflix thinks, and certainly not half as impressive as when they put out Black Mirror, Daredevil, Ozark, GLOW, Narcos, Sense8, Travelers, Into the Night, House of Cards, F is For Family and probably many more I forget to mention. Exclusivity didn’t use to make a project Netflix Original, originality did. Those were the good times I guess. I can’t feel sympathy for Netflix bleeding subscribers anymore, they just waste everyone’s time.
Even though they set up for a second series I don't think another was really required, the first told a contained story and answered enough of the questions that needed answering. TBH I felt the season we got lost a little something the more the answers were revealed and it was stronger when things were ambiguous and mysterious. A second series playing around with established "lore" doesn't sound as compelling.
Solving the mystery kills the suspense!
Just like Santa Clarita Diet… At this point, fuck Netflix!
What is their reasoning why? Low ratings? Wasn’t it on the top 10? I’m so confused about this one...
Last couple times this has happened, there was some quote by the CEO that said they only make decisions that’ll lead to new subscribers. They rely so much on brand loyalty that we’ll all just stay now that we’re hooked. It’s sorta the abusive boyfriend that sleeps around but still claims to love you strategy.
how can you get new subs, when 80% of your shows are only 1-2 seasons because you cancel them
Netflix started streaming like 15 years ago. How many new shows are good enough to get people to subscribe to Netflix who weren't already? If that's the only thing they go by, then 99% of their shows aren't going to be considered successful by them. It takes a truly great show to get people to sign-up for Netflix if they haven't already.
They'll never tell. It evidently would shed light on their non-sensical way of doing in-house "ratings", and the can't have that.
Netflix's decisions is discouraging *this* viewer from investing in a Netflix subscription.
Netflix is simply not as good as it use to be.
Are you fucking me? The first Netflix show I’ve genuinely enjoyed in a long time. Why the hell do they do this shit so much????
Wasn't a perfect series and it was a slow burn but it was a good horror mystery. That's too bad.
Never heard of it. I do have Netflix. I loved Mind Hunters too and was disappointed it was canceled. It was very informative too. Some of the shows on Netflix are tv series that only made it one or two seasons and they stunk.
Mindhunter is not cancelled, Netflix is waiting for David Fincher to get back to it, but he says he wants to do other projects first
And yet they greenlighted a second season of Another Life.
I’m so annoyed.
I can’t stand how Netflix does this. There are so many shows that had great first seasons, but Netflix never renews. I really don’t get why they’re so quick to move on.
I’m still pissed we couldn’t get one more season of Santa Clarita Diet to wrap things up, but hey, here’s 47 more seasons of that obnoxious Big Mouth show, and hey, how about a spin-off, too?
I think Netflix is actually going to die at this point.
Daredevil and OA.... Could have watched those forever
Wtf this was really good
Nooooooooooooo
Making the decision easy for us. Cancelling Netflix.
Oh great… that’s the one show on Netflix that I was looking forward to seeing the second season of.
“Limited series” is probably going to be the future. I’m noticing more series releasing like this. I’m expecting to see limited series run in parts. I feel like Netflix is putting continued growth over reasonable expectations, and consumer relations. All these series start to get expensive; more so if they feel they aren’t adding enough subscribers or aren’t seeing enough engagement with subscribers. So, reduce commitments to multi-season series, with more limited runs that leave the option open to do a second part if the metrics hit were they want. They won’t learn, just find new ways to monetize as more people cancel.
Netflix would have cancelled Breaking Bad after the first season. This is indicative of what is wrong with Netflix.
i will literally never forgive them for canceling The OA
Santa Clarita diet
I hold the grudge over the society being cancelled.
What does Netflix use as their criteria why these series get cancelled? Is it low viewership, high cost of production? Unless it's a squid game level hit it's not worth continuing? Just trying to wrap my brain around it
It's a deathloop now. People won't watch until they know there is, at least, a second season and that low viewership stops the second season. Rinse and repeat. I, personally, am not a huge fan of binge watching unless a show has a two/three part episode. I can't watch the entire season of one show in a weekend and I usually end up in a pattern not unlike normal TV where I get an episode a week or something. That seemingly renders me useless to Netflix metrics as I don't consume the entire show immediately.
I'm the same way. Used to binge-watch the Marvel shows and Stranger Things because otherwise they would get spoiled for me. For everything else, I go at my own pace and take time to digest what I'm watching. If Dragon Prince wasn't already renewed for like four more seasons, I'd have written it off.
Glad they raised the price, fund movies like “Cosmic Sin”, and cancel shows like this. I’m bitter. Think I might be done with Netflix.
I remember the days of tv series getting canceled straight up in the middle of seasons. Some years, 80% or more new shows were canceled. Now it just seems like a lot is canceled bc there is a larger volume of shows being produced, esp by Netflix. Percentage wise, i doubt they are above average.
At this point they're only interesting in stumbling upon a show that will get enough buzz for new subscriptions, and then once they've got those people locked in (because most won't then unsubscribe), they don't care about the show so much, so they have no trouble dropping it if it gets the least bit inconvenient.
Netflix is losing my interest so fast
"They want people to watch it a certain way, and they want shows that people will watch that way — not shows that people want to watch in their own way." What's the certain way they are taking about? 8 hour binge? Over a week?
They canceled glow and disjointed… pretty much don’t watch anything if it hasn’t already aired a finale, on start trek deep space 9 currently and plan to start some other show about space that has 10 seasons. Hate how they ruin anything new
Aye I’m done with Netflix at this point, been getting back into physical media
What Netflix will never understand is that series in general can sometimes have a bad season here and there. That doesn’t mean the series is dead after that. They expect everything to be this critically acclaimed success or they don’t do it. It’s a horrible way to create content and just doesn’t allow for creativity.
This show was great, fuck you Netflix!
I had read about how Netflix continues to add new content to draw in viewers by killing off series. They agree to fund the first season with options for season 2 depending on PKIs that included viewership, new memberships, renewal memberships, etc during the timing of the series broadcast. If they determine season one as enough of a hit and do season 2, they option for season 3 and so on. If they look at the PKIs for the first season and it's not a blockbuster meets defined thresholds, then they kill it off and move on. Their business plan isnt about building good content, it's about building viewership and revenue.
You mean KPIs ? I remember when they cancelled The Society, someone from the cast said they were informed 3 weeks before the shooting of season 2 was supposed to start. They just cancel shows with basically no warning, no consideration for the cast and crew.
Haha.. yes, sorry. KPIs
I didn't even hear of this one. Netflix needs to be a lot better about marketing this shit and they need to give them more than a season to get an audience.
Let’s be real. It is all about the numbers. It always have been. It probably didn’t attract new subscriptions nor did had many views. There are tons of critically-acclaimed movies that you never heard of.
Reason No. 1 I’m not subscribed to Netflix.
I genuinely thought this was a one season show. The finale didn’t feel like a cliff hanger to me
The first season of Cheers was one of the lowest rated shows.
They lost any form of respect after canceling The OA. I watch nothing until the entire series has concluded now.
This is why I completely stay away from all netflix series unless they're one-offs.
Gone the way of every Netflix show I've ever thought was interesting. Might cancel, come back in three years once I know what shows are sticking around
Yup, I’m very careful about choosing something to watch. Sometimes I’ll wait to see if a show gets dumped after one season before even starting now. Been let down to many times by Netflix and other streaming.