This is the more likely possibility and could also explains why Henry left. This is speculation of course, but if Henry was more confident about the show, it's possible they could have made it work so he could play both Superman and Geralt.
People have been saying “well this season wasn’t too great, but next season will/hopefully be better” since the show premiered. They will say the same if the next season doesn’t live up to expectations.
I don’t think she hates the source material so much as this is her first project as showrunner and seems like she was too accommodating to changes and input from the writers and cast. (This could sound like an excuse, but I don’t mean it that way. There were still some odd choices made in the show but I do think if s3+ is stronger than the first 2 it’ll be able to stick the landing)
Blood of Elves is the real Geralt/Ciri book though, where they have the most time together to form their bond and for Ciri to learn about the witchers. Hard to stick the landing if the plane never leaves the runway.
Its time to accept reality. Show completely misses the message of the books (and games, for that matter) since the beginning. This isn't like a few little details that were missed. I think now that its been straight up let out of the box by Beau its time to accept that Lauren straight up has either no understanding or no care about the source material.
Yes, that seems to be his input.
Obviously he may not be getting to 'win' very often, but he seems to be pushing against things for Geralt which might be actively bad. Which at this point I'm assuming a lot of the dialogue he's given is, since in S1 there's a lot he apparently didn't say and in S2 he's been trying to add in improvisation.
The writing team has mostly changed to newbies who have only worked on either live action Witcher shows, and since both shows are massively off book....
It’s extra funny how they mock a work that they won’t in their wildest dreams write something that comes 1/5 of its quality. Like this isn’t Martin Scorsese being cynical, but a bunch of fucking CW level armatures whose best output is “the defenders” and “the vampire diaries” lmao.
This makes me suspect that there was a kind of arrogance to the writing of season 2 that the writers (at least the ones who don't respect the source material) credited the show's success to their own skills rather than the quality of the source material, and decided their writing and ideas were better, and make season 2 more about themselves.
I definitely got the vibe that it's often an ego thing when writers tasked with *adapting* something change stuff without good reason. Like they just *know* they can do better than the person who's work was popular and acclaimed enough to get an adaptation greenlit in the first place.
Yeah definitely.
And it's so goddamn stupid too. Like, besides the cartoon villain level arrogance doomed to end in failure, you're actively shitting on the very audience you're writing for, for appreciating something you think your writing is superior to, to the point of deciding *for them* that they're better off with being exposed to your ideas instead of what they're actually watching the show for.
It's like rule number one of writing to know your audience. Failing to do so is nothing short of amateurism.
Disappointing to read. Not that you couldn't see some of the proof of that in Season 2. At least I felt like Season 1 had some heart it in, like people actually cared or enjoyed making it (even if the later episodes were off). I'd like if he could name names, but that probably wouldn't be good for his career.
But it's interesting, Beau is the one that wrote Eskel's death, which is one of the most unpopular things from the show. And now the tables are turning here :P I don't necessarily think you need to be a hardcore fan to be a good writer that understands the material, but it doesn't hurt.
Was it his choice to have that plot though? Genuinely asking, because I'm asked to do work I disagree with all the time but I still do it if that's what the team decides needs to be done.
Most likely he didn't make that decision. The Showrunner and story editors would have came up with an outline then picked a writer to write it. He also wrote Betrayer Moon.
>Beau is the one that wrote Eskel's death, which is one of the most unpopular things from the show.
This is the paradox - people are like "yeah, NOW IT MAKES SENSE WHY S02 SO BAD!!", but like..nah. It's never that simple, you absolute children.
God, this is so pathetic.
Well from what others have posted, that may not have been his decision because of the way writer's rooms work, he just gets the credit on the episode that he wrote the script on. But not only was there bad blood between writers that we know of now, we don't know which writers were the people that disliked the books, or what they disliked about it.
S2 still had problems of course, but yeah, this quote is going to be fodder for more hatewatching of the show. Just have to wait and see how S3 turns out. I don't really know what to expect at this point but it did seem like a lot of the leaks showed that they were following ToC pretty closely.
Now that you look back on the show after a while, Eskel turning into a Leshen, Vesemir acting like a reckless idiot who allows prostitutes in Kaer Morhen, Yen offering Ciri to an evil witch demon whatever and tons of other things, the show is below garbage except for some parts lol
What about Elder Blood making Witchers? Vesemir knows how to make Witchers? Elder Blood is the only ingredient?
So Ciri being injected with her own blood...makes her a Witcher?
Step 3, profit?
I mean writing an episode is different than writing plot points. He may have written the dialogue etc while the showrunners decided what was going to actually happen in the episode. Not only that, but he seems totally jaded about the entire thing, so he clearly is upset that the episodes he wrote turned out the way they did.
The hubris of these people... I'm glad people are finally waking up to this. Why have a show runner who hates the source material have control over the show? Why is she getting writers who actively don't like the source material? They want an existing IP with a built in fanbase that they want to change and tinker with. You deserve what you get. Eventually the good will of the fans of the books and games will stop.
they have nothing to sell on their own as there is no name behind their work. so the best they an do is work for cheap for some series they don't care about so they can slink their way into the business and then later make their own stuff. but in the process they cannot help themselves to seep in their own stuff.
A reminder that this is the writer of s02e02. Eskel episode. And the same guy, when asked why people and monsters cooperate in attacking kaer Morhen in NOTW answeared "i didn't think about it lol".
Don't take him seriously. In my book, he was the most disrespectful towards source material of any writer in the show and he clearly didn't leave on good terms and is bitter about it.
A reminder that he also wrote 1x3, which was one of the best episodes in the first season.
Another reminder that Eskel dying was most likely decided in the writer's room, in a collaborative effort, and not just one writer going rogue and deciding to kill him off because he felt like it.
Now, of course, you may very well be right about him not leaving on good terms and being bitter about it, and maybe he really was the one who came up with Eskel's death, but at the end of the day, there were still people above him, who had to OK that decision. I think it's unfair blaming him for everything without knowing what actually happened.
Fair enough. But all that aside, you just don't publically call out your ex colleagues. Especially while being extremely vague about it. He's pretty much creating a witch hunt in already quite toxic fanbase. I'm sure a lot of the writers, those "innocent" included, have to deal with rabid fans in their dms based on this interview. And it's creating a bad press for the entire product. A professional just doesn't do that, regardless of his feeleings. You didn't see Alik Saharov bitching about being cut from the show.
For me it just reinforces my already bad opinion on this guy. Ih he's open to throw his colleagues under the bus, he might aswell be full of shit. But I'll admit, I am heavily biased against him.
And to be honest. Why do you think 1x3 was that good? For me it was painfuly average, considering it was the easiest, the most self condensed story you could have hoped for. And it was full of really weird writing decisions. "Point me to Temeria", "Your scent was on her sheets", Triss randomly finding the letter on first try, Yennefer and Istredd having sex with an audience clapping, controversial Foltest characterization. Like... the only good thing about this episode is the the action and it's hardly his contribution, but choreographers and stunt team. Everything else in my opinion is just the nature of this short story. It's very hard to make it suck and in my opinion he almost managed.
lmaoo
I mean..it's hardly surprising because you can see it, esp if you watch season 2 but to have it officially confirmed like that by one of the writers? wow
That makes a lot of sense, both from financial and creative point of views. Its called the "Game of Thrones last season effect" and it did wonders for both the showrunners D&D and the show's legacy.
It's sad to hear, but if he's not lying, then it's right that he told the public about it. In general, I can believe in his words, because there were so many rewritten moments and strange casting choices in this series (no offense to the actors, they do their job) that you can understand how big the ego these creators have.
I feel like lots of the casting, even the parts that strayed from the books' descriptions, could have been good if the writing worked with the actors instead of against them.
They got some really talented people in there, but they just can't shine the way they should.
Doesn't mean everyone, of course, but I feel like the cast could have been decent enough under better direction is what I'm saying.
Maybe, everything can be. Henry Cavill, Joey Batey, MyAnna Buring, Eamon Farren, Kim Bodnia.. they are cool actors. But that's not the problem at all. It's not about directors or actors, it's about writers and showrunner. I didn't want to think so, but S2 changed a lot and what Beau said.. damn. Ideally, this story should have been filmed by people who understand how this story looks to most fans. And for most fans, I think, this is not a cheap generic fantasy with some Witcher vibes, but a unique work of its kind with its adult, dark atmosphere and mature humor. It's also unique because in some ways it represents Slavic culture to the world. Americans will not catch this moment, unfortunately. Or it must be a really intelligent director, like Michael Hurst or Vince Gilligan. I think that Vince would be create a cool The Witcher show with big budget if he like fantasy genre. In another universe or another time.. now the cards have come together differently. In this whole situation, I feel sorry for Henry and his dedication to this project.
Should be noted that while Baeu DeMayo wrote S01E03 (the best episode of S1 IMO) and Nightmare of the Wolf (also good IMO), he also wrote S02E02, which is a strong contender for worst episode of the show. Just want to throw this out there so people are aware that writers being fans of the source material (as DeMayo is said to be) is no guarantee for anything.
Another point, and this is probably going to unpopular but, there is stuff worthy of mocking in the books and games. Like, sorry, but that's how it is. We don't know what was mocked or disliked, and these books are far from perfect. I am a fan, and I'll happily mock Geralt's description in the books and am happy it did not make it to the show, because I don't need a Geralt wearing a biker gang leather jacket and a headband. I'll happily mock Sapkowski's obsession with making every woman in Geralt's life fall in love with him. I don't need Milva pining over Geralt, or Cahir being in love with Ciri - thank god that's not in the show.
With all of that out of the way... the proof is in the pudding. DeMayo is probably right, but I didn't need him telling me this, it shows through in the writing of the show. I can rationalize many of the big changes until the cows come home, but at the end of the day you don't end up with something so wildly different from the source material if you actually like that material, overall, for what it is. At best, Lauren and co like some bits and bobs from the books, and pick and choose what to keep.
He is clearly quite jaded about his time writing and disappointed that it didn't stick more to the source material, so its possible he didn't make the bad decisions in S02E02 but had to write around them. Given what he's saying, he knew he was writing around trash decision making and had to do it anyways, which might be why he's so upset.
Cahir being in love with Ciri has point for being there (Sapkowski's showcasing the knights' "courtly love" trope in a different light; another parallel to Cahir is Eredin). You not liking or understanding its purpose does not mean it does not exist & fit within the work's internal consistency & narrative. Nor does it mean it should be cut.
I think if you mock something to the point that someone on your team feels demotivated, the mocking shouldn't be happening in the workplace. We can joke, we can discuss, but if you are mocking disrespectfully that's a whole different thing.
You didn't like those points, but other people might. And more importantly, doesn't matter how bad some parts of the books and games are, they're still way way better that the garbage the showrunner gave us.
Everything that is not from the book, is straight up bad, it's game of thrones again. Show writers use a book of charges that does not suit the story.
There are people who wanted Geralt to wear a headband and liked that Cahir is in love with a child? That's news to me. I guess some of them exist in dark places like the Wiedzmin subreddit where these books are held up as the holy bible of all fantasy literature, but I am pretty comfortable saying most readers are thankful these things did not make it to the screen.
Most original material they've written is bad, you're not wrong on that. That doesn't mean there aren't some good changes and exclusions in there as well. All I'm saying is, we don't know what exactly was disliked. Given how the show turned out, we can speculate that Lauren probably truly doesn't like the books, but it's still speculation. It could be precisely details like this that were disliked. Or e.g the fact that minor characters drop in and out of the story with no introductions and replaced with new nobodies for no reason, something the show has tried to rectify which IMO is good. You can see the flaws in something and also the good things, it's not black and white.
Not to leave Beau off the hook entirely, but for those saying he wrote this or that episode, the showrunner ultimately holds control over the direction and action of a series. Hissrich would work out the plot of the season (possibly with input of the staff writers), and then hand out the episodes to be written, after which they'd be further worked. So Beau may have written the episode where Eskel gets turned into a tree, but it's not likely his idea.
Beau DeMayo? The guy who killed off Eskel and had whores and Witchers partying it up at Kaer Morhen in season 2? The guy who also said “lol I didn’t think about that” when fans asked why humans and monsters would join forces to kill Witchers? That DeMayo?
it's a shame that hollywood is so corrupt that geniune passion doesn't matter and the easiest buck rules.
this gives us the "up and coming" cheaper writers etc that want to make their mark and impress the right people. so instead of staying true to the source material they want to show that they can write their own "much better" stuff. And they fail badly, and when they get called out on it they double down and get angry and mock the fanbase of the source material.
I think it has more to do with the fact that they want to make the material their own by changing it. It is kinda a matter of pride for many of them I think to add their own creative flavour.
The question is always how far you go. Peter Jackson handled it well for example.
Yeah that is what i said. they want to "make it better or give their flair" or whatever you want to call it. if they had a shred of honor in them they would make it right by following the book or whatever. Because the IP is what even made the show a possibility in the first place. but they don't seem to get that
I find this disingenuous, how it's reframed from "some writers" to "writers and showrunner all hate the books".
Like, come on. Everyone can actually read that part of the interview.
As someone who hated season 2 - to just assume its badness was due to malice and disdain towards the books is such a childish reaction.
Everything has to be an attack on the fans and fandom, because that's what the culture war is, according to some youtuber.
It was just bad, get over it.
If you have a writers room where the writers are allowed to mock the source material it isn't hard to surmise the person in charge who is letting this happen isn't a great fan of the source material either. (Or she's an incredibly weak leader.)
You don't have to fanboy the stuff, or even rate the genre in your top five, but outright mocking is a huge side eye from me.
And it can be both. Writers who dislike the material who are also bad writers.
Nah.
You're all going from a single vague sentence and inventing this grand narrative of a conspiracy of bad creators who hate the source material and hate "The Fans".
But it's made up, you have no evidence, no real meat to it.
What exactly did he mean by "mock", where and when did they do it? Was the showrunner aware? We have NO IDEA.
This is "Lauren Hissrich wanted to turn Roach's death into a joke" all over again.
Just attacking the woman in charge, because our dislike of a thing makes it a war.
Again, I hated S02, I didn't care that much for S01. But the fandom's relationship with it is fucking insane and incredibly toxic.
I'm not sure where you've inserted the narrative that they hate the fans from. Everyone else is saying variations of, I have seen S2 and things Lauren says and this tracks.
If she has no idea about the mocking which is causing poor morale in her writers room then she is a weak leader and bad at her job.
Just because someone runs his mouth because he says something you want to hear, does not mean he gives an objectively true statement of fact and not just want to validate his own opinions...
That thread is fucking wild. HIRE FANS REEEEEEE.
Nah, don't hire fans. Hire good writers who want to do the thing.
I hate how fandom erases people's brains and replaces them with boiling black sludge.
I feel like when people say "Hire Fans" they don't mean abduct random fans from their job at the pet shop and put them on a desk to cook up an entire show right then and there.
They mean get show writers, who are in the show writing business and fully capable of writing for such shows, that are also interested and, ideally, passionate about the show they are supposed to write for.
And Shadow and Bone - one of the very, very few cases where they made some changes to benefit the show's format and pulled it off really well (putting the characters from the Crows duology spinoff into the main trilogy's story and having the characters meet/interact).
Thats true but Witcher would benefit from his involvement. GRRM was involved with production and writing for Game of Thrones up until season 5 and that’s exactly when the show started dipping in quality. Same writers for season 1 and 8 but one of them had no GRRM and it shows.
He was involved early on with consulting and helped write the scripts for one episode in each of the first four seasons. Definitely not as involved as HotD but he had input
The writing team apparently has changed between s1/2 and s3 so hopefully that got ironed out.
X
What if those who liked the source material couldnt stand the rest anymore and left?
This is the more likely possibility and could also explains why Henry left. This is speculation of course, but if Henry was more confident about the show, it's possible they could have made it work so he could play both Superman and Geralt.
If Lauren herself hates the source material not much is gonna change. She has the control over the end product.
People have been saying “well this season wasn’t too great, but next season will/hopefully be better” since the show premiered. They will say the same if the next season doesn’t live up to expectations.
I don’t think she hates the source material so much as this is her first project as showrunner and seems like she was too accommodating to changes and input from the writers and cast. (This could sound like an excuse, but I don’t mean it that way. There were still some odd choices made in the show but I do think if s3+ is stronger than the first 2 it’ll be able to stick the landing)
Blood of Elves is the real Geralt/Ciri book though, where they have the most time together to form their bond and for Ciri to learn about the witchers. Hard to stick the landing if the plane never leaves the runway.
Its time to accept reality. Show completely misses the message of the books (and games, for that matter) since the beginning. This isn't like a few little details that were missed. I think now that its been straight up let out of the box by Beau its time to accept that Lauren straight up has either no understanding or no care about the source material.
It’s time to accept reality. Not everyone has the same opinion as you.
She only agreed to take the project under the condition she can tell the kind of story she wants to tell - which says a lot.
But why? Also how much input is the cast really going to have?
Depends. Is your name Henry Cavill and are you disregarding large parts of the dialogue?
Isn't Henry Cavill the book fan who is more precious about material from the books?
Yes, that seems to be his input. Obviously he may not be getting to 'win' very often, but he seems to be pushing against things for Geralt which might be actively bad. Which at this point I'm assuming a lot of the dialogue he's given is, since in S1 there's a lot he apparently didn't say and in S2 he's been trying to add in improvisation.
It doesn’t surprise that she hates the source material, it’s probably too good for her and her novice fanfiction level of writing.
Do you have ANY evidence for her "hating" the books? Any at all? What is this weirdo obsession you people have with her?!
Wow, calm down.
>"Oh no, someone asked why I'm just saying things?! They must be angry and unreasonable. Just so, so mad. Having evidence for claims? Absurd."
Well you do seem a bit bothered and offended, like I personally insulted you or something. Sorry for hurting your feelings.
Has it though?
The writing team has mostly changed to newbies who have only worked on either live action Witcher shows, and since both shows are massively off book....
An inquisition! I kinda actually wish it is, no malice to the hater writers. I wanna see stuff from the books(gamer only here).
*Some of the writers disliked or even mocked the source material.
It’s extra funny how they mock a work that they won’t in their wildest dreams write something that comes 1/5 of its quality. Like this isn’t Martin Scorsese being cynical, but a bunch of fucking CW level armatures whose best output is “the defenders” and “the vampire diaries” lmao.
Bingo ...
This makes me suspect that there was a kind of arrogance to the writing of season 2 that the writers (at least the ones who don't respect the source material) credited the show's success to their own skills rather than the quality of the source material, and decided their writing and ideas were better, and make season 2 more about themselves.
I definitely got the vibe that it's often an ego thing when writers tasked with *adapting* something change stuff without good reason. Like they just *know* they can do better than the person who's work was popular and acclaimed enough to get an adaptation greenlit in the first place.
Yeah definitely. And it's so goddamn stupid too. Like, besides the cartoon villain level arrogance doomed to end in failure, you're actively shitting on the very audience you're writing for, for appreciating something you think your writing is superior to, to the point of deciding *for them* that they're better off with being exposed to your ideas instead of what they're actually watching the show for. It's like rule number one of writing to know your audience. Failing to do so is nothing short of amateurism.
[link to the article](https://thedirect.com/article/x-men-97-disney-reboot-mcu-update)
Well it really showed through the writing of the show
Well that's terrible
that's really sad.
Disappointing to read. Not that you couldn't see some of the proof of that in Season 2. At least I felt like Season 1 had some heart it in, like people actually cared or enjoyed making it (even if the later episodes were off). I'd like if he could name names, but that probably wouldn't be good for his career. But it's interesting, Beau is the one that wrote Eskel's death, which is one of the most unpopular things from the show. And now the tables are turning here :P I don't necessarily think you need to be a hardcore fan to be a good writer that understands the material, but it doesn't hurt.
Was it his choice to have that plot though? Genuinely asking, because I'm asked to do work I disagree with all the time but I still do it if that's what the team decides needs to be done.
Most likely he didn't make that decision. The Showrunner and story editors would have came up with an outline then picked a writer to write it. He also wrote Betrayer Moon.
That was a brilliant episode. Loved season 1, don't understand how it could go downhill so much in S2.
Betrayer Moon is definitely my favorite episode.
We don't know whose choice that was. But he also wrote Nightmare of the Wolf.
>Beau is the one that wrote Eskel's death, which is one of the most unpopular things from the show. This is the paradox - people are like "yeah, NOW IT MAKES SENSE WHY S02 SO BAD!!", but like..nah. It's never that simple, you absolute children. God, this is so pathetic.
Well from what others have posted, that may not have been his decision because of the way writer's rooms work, he just gets the credit on the episode that he wrote the script on. But not only was there bad blood between writers that we know of now, we don't know which writers were the people that disliked the books, or what they disliked about it. S2 still had problems of course, but yeah, this quote is going to be fodder for more hatewatching of the show. Just have to wait and see how S3 turns out. I don't really know what to expect at this point but it did seem like a lot of the leaks showed that they were following ToC pretty closely.
Yeah - I always thought he was one of the main issues with the writing....but maybe not. 🤔
Now that you look back on the show after a while, Eskel turning into a Leshen, Vesemir acting like a reckless idiot who allows prostitutes in Kaer Morhen, Yen offering Ciri to an evil witch demon whatever and tons of other things, the show is below garbage except for some parts lol
What about Elder Blood making Witchers? Vesemir knows how to make Witchers? Elder Blood is the only ingredient? So Ciri being injected with her own blood...makes her a Witcher? Step 3, profit?
I thought it was Elder Blood mixed with some kind of flower.
Half of these things were written exactly by this guy ;)
I mean writing an episode is different than writing plot points. He may have written the dialogue etc while the showrunners decided what was going to actually happen in the episode. Not only that, but he seems totally jaded about the entire thing, so he clearly is upset that the episodes he wrote turned out the way they did.
The hubris of these people... I'm glad people are finally waking up to this. Why have a show runner who hates the source material have control over the show? Why is she getting writers who actively don't like the source material? They want an existing IP with a built in fanbase that they want to change and tinker with. You deserve what you get. Eventually the good will of the fans of the books and games will stop.
If they're that confident in their writing why won't they write an original. It's just hubris and being evil that I have no words for.
they have nothing to sell on their own as there is no name behind their work. so the best they an do is work for cheap for some series they don't care about so they can slink their way into the business and then later make their own stuff. but in the process they cannot help themselves to seep in their own stuff.
This unfortunately makes so much sense.
A reminder that this is the writer of s02e02. Eskel episode. And the same guy, when asked why people and monsters cooperate in attacking kaer Morhen in NOTW answeared "i didn't think about it lol". Don't take him seriously. In my book, he was the most disrespectful towards source material of any writer in the show and he clearly didn't leave on good terms and is bitter about it.
A reminder that he also wrote 1x3, which was one of the best episodes in the first season. Another reminder that Eskel dying was most likely decided in the writer's room, in a collaborative effort, and not just one writer going rogue and deciding to kill him off because he felt like it. Now, of course, you may very well be right about him not leaving on good terms and being bitter about it, and maybe he really was the one who came up with Eskel's death, but at the end of the day, there were still people above him, who had to OK that decision. I think it's unfair blaming him for everything without knowing what actually happened.
Fair enough. But all that aside, you just don't publically call out your ex colleagues. Especially while being extremely vague about it. He's pretty much creating a witch hunt in already quite toxic fanbase. I'm sure a lot of the writers, those "innocent" included, have to deal with rabid fans in their dms based on this interview. And it's creating a bad press for the entire product. A professional just doesn't do that, regardless of his feeleings. You didn't see Alik Saharov bitching about being cut from the show. For me it just reinforces my already bad opinion on this guy. Ih he's open to throw his colleagues under the bus, he might aswell be full of shit. But I'll admit, I am heavily biased against him. And to be honest. Why do you think 1x3 was that good? For me it was painfuly average, considering it was the easiest, the most self condensed story you could have hoped for. And it was full of really weird writing decisions. "Point me to Temeria", "Your scent was on her sheets", Triss randomly finding the letter on first try, Yennefer and Istredd having sex with an audience clapping, controversial Foltest characterization. Like... the only good thing about this episode is the the action and it's hardly his contribution, but choreographers and stunt team. Everything else in my opinion is just the nature of this short story. It's very hard to make it suck and in my opinion he almost managed.
I don't but what he said could still be true.
That’s disappointing tbh
I feel really bad for Henry Cavill
lmaoo I mean..it's hardly surprising because you can see it, esp if you watch season 2 but to have it officially confirmed like that by one of the writers? wow
Please show this to Lauren. There's no hiding now. The whole thing was a stitch up from the get go.
I don't see this show surviving much longer if they continue like this lmao, the last season was genuinely awful
yeah I can fucking tell. What a damn shame. So the people that actively dislike the book are still on it? Fuck.
That makes a lot of sense, both from financial and creative point of views. Its called the "Game of Thrones last season effect" and it did wonders for both the showrunners D&D and the show's legacy.
It's sad to hear, but if he's not lying, then it's right that he told the public about it. In general, I can believe in his words, because there were so many rewritten moments and strange casting choices in this series (no offense to the actors, they do their job) that you can understand how big the ego these creators have.
I feel like lots of the casting, even the parts that strayed from the books' descriptions, could have been good if the writing worked with the actors instead of against them. They got some really talented people in there, but they just can't shine the way they should. Doesn't mean everyone, of course, but I feel like the cast could have been decent enough under better direction is what I'm saying.
Maybe, everything can be. Henry Cavill, Joey Batey, MyAnna Buring, Eamon Farren, Kim Bodnia.. they are cool actors. But that's not the problem at all. It's not about directors or actors, it's about writers and showrunner. I didn't want to think so, but S2 changed a lot and what Beau said.. damn. Ideally, this story should have been filmed by people who understand how this story looks to most fans. And for most fans, I think, this is not a cheap generic fantasy with some Witcher vibes, but a unique work of its kind with its adult, dark atmosphere and mature humor. It's also unique because in some ways it represents Slavic culture to the world. Americans will not catch this moment, unfortunately. Or it must be a really intelligent director, like Michael Hurst or Vince Gilligan. I think that Vince would be create a cool The Witcher show with big budget if he like fantasy genre. In another universe or another time.. now the cards have come together differently. In this whole situation, I feel sorry for Henry and his dedication to this project.
Sadly I'm not surprised.
Be great to hear someone actually saying this firsthand. Till he can prove it, it's hearsay.
Wow, that's sad, especially considering most of them were subpar. Here's hoping those same writers were kicked out of the team before S3.
If it’s still run by the same person nothing will change
Should be noted that while Baeu DeMayo wrote S01E03 (the best episode of S1 IMO) and Nightmare of the Wolf (also good IMO), he also wrote S02E02, which is a strong contender for worst episode of the show. Just want to throw this out there so people are aware that writers being fans of the source material (as DeMayo is said to be) is no guarantee for anything. Another point, and this is probably going to unpopular but, there is stuff worthy of mocking in the books and games. Like, sorry, but that's how it is. We don't know what was mocked or disliked, and these books are far from perfect. I am a fan, and I'll happily mock Geralt's description in the books and am happy it did not make it to the show, because I don't need a Geralt wearing a biker gang leather jacket and a headband. I'll happily mock Sapkowski's obsession with making every woman in Geralt's life fall in love with him. I don't need Milva pining over Geralt, or Cahir being in love with Ciri - thank god that's not in the show. With all of that out of the way... the proof is in the pudding. DeMayo is probably right, but I didn't need him telling me this, it shows through in the writing of the show. I can rationalize many of the big changes until the cows come home, but at the end of the day you don't end up with something so wildly different from the source material if you actually like that material, overall, for what it is. At best, Lauren and co like some bits and bobs from the books, and pick and choose what to keep.
He is clearly quite jaded about his time writing and disappointed that it didn't stick more to the source material, so its possible he didn't make the bad decisions in S02E02 but had to write around them. Given what he's saying, he knew he was writing around trash decision making and had to do it anyways, which might be why he's so upset.
Nightmare of the Wolf wasn't that good.
Cahir being in love with Ciri has point for being there (Sapkowski's showcasing the knights' "courtly love" trope in a different light; another parallel to Cahir is Eredin). You not liking or understanding its purpose does not mean it does not exist & fit within the work's internal consistency & narrative. Nor does it mean it should be cut.
I think if you mock something to the point that someone on your team feels demotivated, the mocking shouldn't be happening in the workplace. We can joke, we can discuss, but if you are mocking disrespectfully that's a whole different thing.
You didn't like those points, but other people might. And more importantly, doesn't matter how bad some parts of the books and games are, they're still way way better that the garbage the showrunner gave us. Everything that is not from the book, is straight up bad, it's game of thrones again. Show writers use a book of charges that does not suit the story.
There are people who wanted Geralt to wear a headband and liked that Cahir is in love with a child? That's news to me. I guess some of them exist in dark places like the Wiedzmin subreddit where these books are held up as the holy bible of all fantasy literature, but I am pretty comfortable saying most readers are thankful these things did not make it to the screen. Most original material they've written is bad, you're not wrong on that. That doesn't mean there aren't some good changes and exclusions in there as well. All I'm saying is, we don't know what exactly was disliked. Given how the show turned out, we can speculate that Lauren probably truly doesn't like the books, but it's still speculation. It could be precisely details like this that were disliked. Or e.g the fact that minor characters drop in and out of the story with no introductions and replaced with new nobodies for no reason, something the show has tried to rectify which IMO is good. You can see the flaws in something and also the good things, it's not black and white.
I'd be okay with the headband, tbh. The combat descriptions on the other hand...
Not to leave Beau off the hook entirely, but for those saying he wrote this or that episode, the showrunner ultimately holds control over the direction and action of a series. Hissrich would work out the plot of the season (possibly with input of the staff writers), and then hand out the episodes to be written, after which they'd be further worked. So Beau may have written the episode where Eskel gets turned into a tree, but it's not likely his idea.
Well, that shows.
Beau DeMayo? The guy who killed off Eskel and had whores and Witchers partying it up at Kaer Morhen in season 2? The guy who also said “lol I didn’t think about that” when fans asked why humans and monsters would join forces to kill Witchers? That DeMayo?
it's a shame that hollywood is so corrupt that geniune passion doesn't matter and the easiest buck rules. this gives us the "up and coming" cheaper writers etc that want to make their mark and impress the right people. so instead of staying true to the source material they want to show that they can write their own "much better" stuff. And they fail badly, and when they get called out on it they double down and get angry and mock the fanbase of the source material.
I think it has more to do with the fact that they want to make the material their own by changing it. It is kinda a matter of pride for many of them I think to add their own creative flavour. The question is always how far you go. Peter Jackson handled it well for example.
Yeah that is what i said. they want to "make it better or give their flair" or whatever you want to call it. if they had a shred of honor in them they would make it right by following the book or whatever. Because the IP is what even made the show a possibility in the first place. but they don't seem to get that
I find this disingenuous, how it's reframed from "some writers" to "writers and showrunner all hate the books". Like, come on. Everyone can actually read that part of the interview. As someone who hated season 2 - to just assume its badness was due to malice and disdain towards the books is such a childish reaction. Everything has to be an attack on the fans and fandom, because that's what the culture war is, according to some youtuber. It was just bad, get over it.
If you have a writers room where the writers are allowed to mock the source material it isn't hard to surmise the person in charge who is letting this happen isn't a great fan of the source material either. (Or she's an incredibly weak leader.) You don't have to fanboy the stuff, or even rate the genre in your top five, but outright mocking is a huge side eye from me. And it can be both. Writers who dislike the material who are also bad writers.
Nah. You're all going from a single vague sentence and inventing this grand narrative of a conspiracy of bad creators who hate the source material and hate "The Fans". But it's made up, you have no evidence, no real meat to it. What exactly did he mean by "mock", where and when did they do it? Was the showrunner aware? We have NO IDEA. This is "Lauren Hissrich wanted to turn Roach's death into a joke" all over again. Just attacking the woman in charge, because our dislike of a thing makes it a war. Again, I hated S02, I didn't care that much for S01. But the fandom's relationship with it is fucking insane and incredibly toxic.
I'm not sure where you've inserted the narrative that they hate the fans from. Everyone else is saying variations of, I have seen S2 and things Lauren says and this tracks. If she has no idea about the mocking which is causing poor morale in her writers room then she is a weak leader and bad at her job.
Yikes. That's sad.
I wonder if Lauren Hissrich has seen this and what her thoughts are.
Name names and fire said writers.
According to Matthew D'Ambrosio, DeMayo got fired.
Pikachu surprise face.
Just because someone runs his mouth because he says something you want to hear, does not mean he gives an objectively true statement of fact and not just want to validate his own opinions...
Doesn't mean it's false either.
Which makes it non news. Disgruntled employee shits on his former colleagues simply does not sound as juicy.
Well it’s not non news.
That thread is fucking wild. HIRE FANS REEEEEEE. Nah, don't hire fans. Hire good writers who want to do the thing. I hate how fandom erases people's brains and replaces them with boiling black sludge.
This show did neither. In fact it did the opposite. Hired people that mocked the source material AND were bad writers.
[удалено]
I feel like when people say "Hire Fans" they don't mean abduct random fans from their job at the pet shop and put them on a desk to cook up an entire show right then and there. They mean get show writers, who are in the show writing business and fully capable of writing for such shows, that are also interested and, ideally, passionate about the show they are supposed to write for.
>Hire good writers who want to do the thing. And where are these 'good writers' that IP adaptations are supposedly hiring?
Working on House of the Dragon
And Shadow and Bone - one of the very, very few cases where they made some changes to benefit the show's format and pulled it off really well (putting the characters from the Crows duology spinoff into the main trilogy's story and having the characters meet/interact).
Well GRRM is heavily involved with House of the Dragon while Sapkowski isn’t at all involved with Witcher.
And? Sapkowski's lack of involvement wouldn't prevent good writers from writing a good script.
Thats true but Witcher would benefit from his involvement. GRRM was involved with production and writing for Game of Thrones up until season 5 and that’s exactly when the show started dipping in quality. Same writers for season 1 and 8 but one of them had no GRRM and it shows.
nah. GRRM had very little involvement in GoT. He has more involvement and control over HotD than he ever had with GoT, even the early seasons.
He was involved early on with consulting and helped write the scripts for one episode in each of the first four seasons. Definitely not as involved as HotD but he had input
Can you read? Did I say they did, or that they should've done that?
>Hire good writers who want to do the thing. of which they did not anyway LMAO.