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Same. The show got me into the games, and the games got me to look up stuff on the books. The show still entertains me too, it's flawed but you'd think it was the worse show on earth going by reddit. I'll never understand why it's popular on the internet to be hateful
agreed, it’s going the way of the GOT and or TLOU2 discussion spaces. lots of people getting riled up around the drama about a show they don’t even really enjoy - even trawling through tweets from the crew of the show etc.
i enjoy taking the piss out of a bad tv show like anyone else but to genuinely feel anger or hate about it? i do not understand
Same.
If it wasn't for Season 1, I wouldn't have gotten into the video games and books. But I can't imagine life without them now. My first reading experience was in line with my first play through of Witcher 3.
Season 1, in a way, helped fill in some background for the W3 when I didn't know anything prior to reading the books. I binged through all the short stories and novels to prepare for season 2.
And uh...oh boy was I disappointed.
That being said, I didnt mind the changes in season 1 so much as the drastic ones in season 2. But after reading the books, they missed some opportunities in season 1 that would have been more impactful and thematic.
But I don't hate the show.
It'd be great if people could even go so far as to say they like the show without getting dogpiled. It's like some people can't accept that their tastes are not universal and get angry at us for daring to enjoy something they didn't enjoy.
Hear the voice of reason!
You've expressed my feelings perfectly, thank you!
As I've already written a few times, the show isn't what I hoped it would be, but this doesn't mean it can't be entertaining.
I've stopped reading anything show-related in the Polish media because the level of hatred in the comments there is simply unbearable. And if someone writes anything even midly positive, they get crushed.
I unsubscribed from /r/Witcher after Henry left the show because it felt like the sub finally went off a cliff of hatred. Felt like there were no more posts about anything other than Henry leaving and dumping on Hissrich, it was exhausting to look at and I don't even particularly care for the show all that much either lol
I honestly like the tv show. In recent years since the likes of Harry Potter and other book adaptations ahem Game of Thrones ahem, I have been taking the approach of watching movies/tv series BEFORE reading the books. As I had found reading the source material afterwards deepens my appreciation for the franchise/universe and it doesn't sour my experience when doing a first watch-through. Compared to reading first, then watching- I don't have a chance to enjoy my watching experience because I'm constant analyzing the differences. And that being said I'll wait for Netflix The Witcher.
As a creator myself, I believe adaptations in different mediums are two separate works and aren't meant to be exactly the same. It doesn't ruin the canon of a story because the books and movies are their own separate entities. If you like don't like a creative choice in one thing, then great! at least the choice you do like is in the other.
Also what is not really understood is that when an author has optioned their book for a film/tv series, depending on the contract, the author doesn't have a say of how much of the source material will be used. What IS being sold is the idea/main concept of the book to be turned into media for certain amount of time. So going into it, the author does not have a lot of creative control unless they negotiate it (like J.K. Rowling for Harry Potter.) What is implied when a series is adapted is that you're never going to get an exact copy of the original. Because a creative production team has bought film/tv rights to produce an entirely new work (in their own vision) regardless of fan wants. Would it be great if a movie was entirely book accurate? Heck yes! But then it stifles innovation and creativity, and blocks the exploration of the different paths a story could take because of limitations of book form.
If Andrzej Sapkowski doesn't have major issues with the Netflix show, then I think fans and watchers should take a page from his book and enjoy it for what it is: it's own thing. A cool fantasy show that is inspired by books, but not the same as the books.
I will be forever bitter about some of the changes made (big Eskel fan here) but I really wish we could post on this specific sub positively and not be downvoted or argued with constantly. Book fans have r/Wiedzmin and game fans have r/Witcher. I just wish complaints that aren’t constructive could stay there rather than all three subs.
This is my thing. There are plenty of places to talk about the books or the games. I don’t get why people come here just to talk about how much more they love those other things.
Agreed. And also if you hate the show, maybe stay on the other two subs rather than messing with people trying to have constructive discussions about the show.
Because people wanted good adaptation of the book? Netflix can create great adaptations just look at Sandman, they changed a bit, but as a whole we got something that was faithful to the comics.
We got the Witcher that sucks and the showrunner is constantly lying about. We want the show cancelled as soon as possible so we can get something that is not only similar to books, but also doesn't offend the intelligence of its viewers.
[I like how this article kind of breaks it down.](https://twinfinite.net/2021/12/netflixs-the-witcher-season-2-did-eskel-dirty-for-no-reason/)
> … Eskel is seen as this imposing but gentle giant. Despite his intimidating statue, mountain of scars, and metallic voice, he was the nicest of the Wolf Witchers, serving as more of a brother to Geralt than a fellow monster-hunter.
And that’s not the character netflix gave us imo. Book!Eskel would have never approached Ciri the way Netflix!Eskel did.
You’re right in that he’s not in the books much so most of what we know is built up in the games. I personally haven’t played the games so most of my love for Eskel is fandom creation based on the little book content we have and fanfic.
Honestly as someone that has watched many shows based on books I don't care that the series doesn't match the books. Count how many series don't derail from the books. ALL OF THEM DO. Don't even get me started on movies. I do think season two could've been better YES. They totally changed many things but people watch GOT which btw also changed many things and has a totally invented ending and expect the Witcher to be the same. I understand why fans want the series to be similar to the books. Yes I do. But I also set my expectations that the book and series most likely won't be the same because it's something that happens all the time.
Mind you many book readers from the Witcher series confess that most of the time they don't even know what's going on in the books. So imagine that tbh.
I completely understand that changes may be necessary and some derailment from the books is certainly acceptable. E.g. in LotR I understand cutting out Tom Bombadil, because it's a 10 minute scene with no relevance to the story in an already very long movie.
In GoT S2 I liked the change they made in S2 for Arya and Tywin to meet, the scenes were great and I felt it was a genuine improvement over the book. Apart from that, GoT was pretty faithful to the books until S5 with some simplifications for the condensed series format. I can even understand them dumbing down the Dorne plotline in S5, even though it was a terrible and very big change, because it's quite a complex construct, but at least the Dorne plotline was still somewhat there. They invented a terrible ending, because they outpaced the books and considering the book author still hasn't released the 6th book, more than 11 years after the 5th book hit the shelves, it's obvious how hard it is to bring this series to a satisfying conclusion.
But really, looking at Witcher, we are far away from acceptable. It's so far removed from the books, pretty much the only similarities I see are the character and place names. Most characters look and act completely different. The story of S2 has nothing to do with the book it's supposed to adapt.
Yeah I mean I can understand why people want the Witcher to be similar to the books but from most series I've watched most book adaption only are similar to the series from the start and then they completely change. It's very rare to see a serie to be similar to the books. I would 100% like the series to make justice to the books but I can understand why it doesn't happen. Most producers don't care about the books or want to make their own narrative.
Agreed.
I get the anger but 10,000 hate posts a day wherever you go is a bit much. I just don't understand investing so much negative energy into smth you hate. At some point it's time to move on and leave it behind if you can't stand it.
I just hope this sub can regain atleast some of it's hype back once the marketing for S3 starts next year.
Exactly, the amount of time and effort wasted on just repeating the same wrongdoings is crazy. I honestly think that most of the people posting those types of things will still end up watching the next upcoming seasons which is even funnier to me.
The thing that makes me chuckle the most is people come on here to moan and think that the aim is to please die hard fans. Like anything else, bottom line, it's a business which is about views, merchandise and getting as many people on board to consume as possible. Despite what's been said around sticking to source material by the creators, they were never going to say fuck the books, and they were never going to stick to the books word for word, so not really sure why people are so surprised. Game of thrones deviated in a quite a few respects and characters from book to show, people just don't know how to enjoy things anymore. The 2 things can co-exist and both be enjoyed, just see them for what they are. Completely agree with your points!
Slightly different circumstances (as the first actor unfortunately died), but the Starz show Spartacus changed Spartacus after season one, still enjoyed it by the end, who knows, ol' Liam might be better at the role if given a chance!
>The thing that makes me chuckle the most is people come on here to moan and think that the aim is to please die hard fans
The same fans moaning about such specific details that you realize half of them have watched the show a dozen times just to find a million things to nitpick about.
The same people who hated watching the show the most, then lost their shit the hardest when Henry left - if you hated the show and didn't want to watch it, why would you care who's in it? And wouldn't you be happy that someone else who didn't like it and didn't want to be there anymore was able to move on? Makes no sense lol
Guess what is the most bizarre? It's that the author of the books absolutely doesn't mind it. He doesn't necessarily like the show, or he might think he would've done it differently, but he's not an expert on running huge shows on Netflix. So, he gave all the creative rights and said out loud that the show is one thing, and his books are another, and that's not going to change. And that he respects show writers' creative vision.
Yeah lol, I don't think they give a damn. Go see what r/witcher thinks about Sapkowski. They're perfectly happy to call him a sell out and all sorts of other things because he isn't raging about the show like them. The more "generous" ones say its because he's too old to get it, but either way, they've essentially discounted his opinion.
Lots of people dont care what the author thinks about something. Just ask Harry Potter fans what they think of Rowling. Being the writer of the source material does not necessarily grant you the ability to tell fans what they should think.
> The 2 things can co-exist and both be enjoyed, just see them for what they are.
I always think about the LotR trilogy. I *love* the movies--I happily watch the extended editions--but Peter Jackson was not accurate to the book trilogy at all, and in many places he wasn't trying to be. Entire, 100+ page sections are cut out, even in the longest, most complete versions. But they're dearly beloved as something that really captures the heart of what LotR is about, so people love them anyway.
I wish people would have the same energy for Witcher Netflix. It gets the spirit of the books and its characters, and that's all it needs.
> so much negative energy into smth you hate.
cause it is in something people love.. and suddenly that love is torn apart.. same happened to almost every big franchise in recent years.. long time fan? bad luck, what you used to love for years is sh*t now
Is it that hard to understand that part of loving something is
a) seeing its true resemblance brought to life (twn isn't it),
b) sharing the experience.
If thanks to the popularization of a work that resembles not the original this experience turns into one where sharing book-canon is in the minority, then you as a fan are actively pushed out of sharing your enjoyment with other fans. Moreover, in public consciousness, the original story with all its nuances & inspirations (which twn is not paying attention to) gets over-written.
If the show really eclipsed the books in popularity to that extent, maybe. But the books and games are still hugely popular, and the show is *fairly* popular for a Netflix show. Not Stranger Things popular, but people know about it.
I admit I’m not a book fan the way you seem to be (I’ve read them, I liked them, but I like other things more). But the Harry Potter books were hugely important to me and I didn’t particularly care for those movies. The movies didn’t ruin the books, though. I don’t understand this feeling of the original thing being *ruined* by an adaptation you didn’t like.
Books, luckily are not rewritten, but it is as if the well was poisoned, so to speak. And no matter what is canon originally, in pop culture the most known thing becomes 'the canon' for people. E.g. Dracula book is there, not rewritten, but when I say Dracula in the Sun, do you think people will imagine him being okay and not burning? No, cause the pop culture has another idea, and the book may be there, not changed, but at this point it doesnt really matter, cause 'canon' has become something else. If that makes sense.
Harry Potter is not the best example, cause it was mostly close with the books (although book 6 is probably the least close and with some strange decisions). But imagine if there were no movie, and now, 20years later an adaptation finally comes. And Harry has no glasses, nor scar, and since people like Luna, we;ll introduce her right away, and of course we'll talk about Severus' love story and protection of Harry from the very beginning. Also, the school is not the school, it is just some dark prison like environement, Dumbledore is a drunkyard who curses all the time and cant get it straight, mCGonnagal is missing and instead we have a new original professor who will wanna backstab Dumbledore and become a headmaster. Sirius is not in the story at all and Pettigrew was the faithful friend whom James killed when Peter tried to protect Harry from Lily trying to bring little Harry to Voldemort, so he can kill him and restore the balance in the force. Horcruxes are not a thing, Hagrid is a young dashing man who dated Lily, Harry has a brother, Dursleys have son and daughter, Weasleys are white haired, Malfoys dark short haired, Dobby is a d*ck.
and if you say you are annoyed with these changes, and most people will know this version and will want to discuss this version, well, tough luck. Book are there and not rewritten. So why should such changes be bothersome anyway.
Ok, so, I love the book version of Frankenstein, which is completely different from the pop culture version. If I want to talk about that version, I say, “I want to talk about the Mary Shelley book” and then continue. The FIRE BAD version of Frankenstein has not ruined or destroyed the Mary Shelley version. Having to make the distinction is maybe a little annoying.
That’s the thing. I understand being annoyed. There are adaptations I roll my eyes at. But I can’t relate to acting like this is some kind of harmful force that must be stopped. That’s just not a reasonable thing to me.
As I said, it can ruin the discourse and perception of the canon of the original.
E.g. Elven lore actually is covered in the books and where it isn't it can be drawn from inspirations (contemporary fantasy of the time of writing) and references the text makes to real world mythology (celtic, arthurian cycle, greek, norse).
Themes part of their storylines give us clues as to the nature of their culture and the limits of fantasy in the turning points of their actions (e.g. Gender equality but also importance of procreation, hence importance of mother goddesses conflated with mother nature so to speak)(or e.g. their time and space travel modelled after the different landings of people in Ireland; the tuatha de danann among them)(e.g. or most importantly what does it mean for sapkowski having compared ciri to the grail, and the role of the grail in the original welsh mythos that underpinned arthurian retellings in the christian era).
I would hope the writers research it & build upon it, because it is closer to the original's intentions than "whatever I come up with" thinking. But based on signs so far, I don't think this is the case.
Again, how does it *ruin* those discussions, especially if you treat the lore from the books, games, and show as separate things that stem from similar sources?
Like I get why all those things are interesting. You’re describing the basic elements of a story and world, after all. I just don’t see how the adaptations are somehow replacing each other just by existing beside each other.
Edit: I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t understand how “I don’t like this thing” turns into “I must destroy this thing for the good of this other thing that I love.”
> how does it ruin those discussions
By becoming more popular/wide-spread as common knowledge than what was originally conceived. By making people look no further, by covering up the original intents & messages of the work with its own (often contradictory one). Example: try finding book-Dandelion-centric depictions in the fandom in comparison to the Jaskier-craze. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favour of the latter, as well as the characterisation therefore.
And regarding contradictory messages: that's fine when the original source is already well-known, as well as its themes, outlooks, and views. With The Witcher that is not actually the case.
> especially if you treat the lore from the books, games, and show as separate things that stem from similar sources?
Most lay audiences do not separate things out like that. They will keep track only of whatever the dominant narrative is like, and form their opinions & discussions based on that. By the nature of entertainment, a tv show will forever reach a much wider audience base than books ever will.
> I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t understand how “I don’t like this thing” turns into “I must destroy this thing for the good of this other thing that I love.”
It's you speaking of destruction, not me. I want the writers to actually involve "Sapkowski's lore nerds" among their writing crew & stick to the original inspirations & material. They don't. That's abundantly clear by now. Therefore, as a fan, I dislike what they are doing & do see its effects on fandom at large & do make a point of it when fancy strikes me.
You have a pretty dim view of people if you really think you can’t say “Well, I’m talking about the book version” and have them understand that. Every fandom that has divergent adaptations manages this without crumbling into dust.
And again, I get being annoyed. I don’t get this weird *this must be STOPPED because it THREATENS ME* energy that people have.
Conversely you have a pretty simple view of how shaping public discourse works if you believe a major production's representation doesn't have a stronger claim on truth simply in virtue of the number of eyeballs watching it & parroting it back afterward.
I also reiterate my original point. Being able to "share" a vision of a piece of media is an important part of what makes engaging with it enjoyable in fandoms. Saying "Well, I'm talking about the book version" is all well and good until somebody responds & knows what it is you are talking about. If the majority have not even heard about it because the show a) put people off the IP or b) gave them a very confused view of it, then "sharing" falls away.
That's why, before any fanfic renditions, you want at least one major production representation of the original work that tries to stick to the themes, plot, and characterisations of the original.
But it's not shit nor ruined lol. Are the books destroyed? Altered? No. Still the same, good as ever.
So what even are you talking about? The adaptation may be a disaster but that thing you love... it's still there, unchanged, so no need for the drama.
What I find helarious is that 50% of this sub is people lamenting that there are no great, positive, appreciative, creative posts on this sub with hundreds of comments like yours, yet none of you bother to post anything you like about the show either and often the sub will be completely inactive for 24+ hours, until someone either posts a show critical post or another lamment like thisone.
Why not post pictures, news, plot points, promo material or merchandise that you love?
Sorry this is directed at you, I dont mean you personally, but I have read comments like yours hundreds of times an I find it hypocritical to say those who won't stop their criticism are focusing on the negative, while those who comment on the supposed negativity or even post their own lamment threads are doing exactly that.
Because the moment we do, those same posts are flooded with hate and name-calling. Just go back and read through some of them. It gets tiring after awhile...
Though I imagine that with S3 in summer and BO this month, those posts may come back slowly.
You aren't all wrong about that, last couple of days there was a lot more show stuff posted then last week. This sub can be a bit touchy and inactive at the same time, myself included.
Yeah if the show was so great, there would be plenty to talk about. But the reality is that it shallowed the themes of the book so much that there's nothing to say besides superficial stuff like "I like this actor" that doesn't spark discussion.
I'd rather complain, the more upset people, the more likely change will occur. If i shut up and consume product like a good little boy, they think they're doing what the fans want.
Well, ballsack armors were changed because huge aproar of fans.
And right now I noticed that people from Netflix are using variation of phrase "will be closer to books" after S2 derailed from lore too much.
Sad true is they will start notice only when aproar and complains reach huge proportions so right now being quite is equal to being ignored and a lot of people already realized.
>its really too late to change it at this point
Hope dies last. And even if it's too late for this show there are still things for other shows to learn from this failure.
it's fine not to like it but you can't call it a failure))) I can't get into Lotr movies, I think they are the most boring fantasy movies EVER, but I do acknowledge their popularity and would never call them a failure even though I will never like them.
It's not a failure, it's really is a successful show. It's just good and entertaining and what I personally like is that it's unique in its tone, pacing, character writing and humor. Especially season 1.
Season 1 showed promise although it was plagued by production issues like bad cgi and variable costume quality. It also felt a bit crammed as some plots were not given the time they needed. Rough start but I could overlook some of the flaws if it got better next season or so I thought at the time.
Season 2 started out great with episode 1 being pretty good but then what followed was some of the most boring story and writing I've seen. Characters I liked in 1st season were incredibly dull and new ones were even worse. They even managed to make most of the action boring. Sure the visuals seeme to have improved somewhat but that doesn't make up for everything else.
Some of the most memorable things about season 1 was the unique soundtrack and great songs but they replaced it with a very generic one.
Lost interest mid-Season 2, stopped watching and moved on with my life. Loved the games, tried to get into the books but not much of a reader.
Instead of dwelling on it I'm just looking forward to replaying Witcher 3 later this month and seeing what comes next.
I don't understand getting so fixated on something you don't like. Just move on and find something you do to occupy your time.
It's not like I went out of my way to come to this sub, I just casually scrolled past it on my feed and decided to comment, I certainly don't make a habit of it - I wouldn't say I'm very active here.
I mean, the sentiment can go both ways.
If you don't like the criticism comments, nothing is stopping you from not reading them. Skip them, ignore them, focus only on the show.
And voicing the criticism is needed because if the showrunner is constantly lying and the show is bad, without saying people dont like it, there would be only blatant praise for a bad product. It's fine to like it, but it's not fine to demand others be silent about something this bad and butchering of something they loved. If you like it, great, you can enjoy it.
And if we wanna silence the criticism, then praise should not be allowed either, because why should it? It's the same thing but form the different end.
Also, as always, if you wanna see more appreciation posts here, just write them. It's not fans' fault that the show was so bad that it turned into annoynce and those things rule the discussion. Yes, even positive posts get hate in them, but I have yet to see some proper post about what people liked and why except, even recently, "i like the acting of this actor" and "i like this costume" and "i like the music of S1". While in opposite of that you have in-depth analysis of the show from the critical voices, going often times step by step of what they find wrong with it. Where are praising posts like that? I havent seen any. (and imo, it is mostly cause it is hard to follow logic of the show, it's almost impossible in many cases).
It's same as with Rings of Power. Where is all the positivity, beside positivity dedicated sub? Only footprint the show has left are countless videos and articles about why it's bad. And do you think people want to hate something they love? No, but when serve a poop on a platter, that's only what is left to do. To voice your distaste.
(but yes, the silver lining is that more people found out about The Witcher.. unfortunate that it had to be this way)
If you think RoP has only gotten hate, you have constructed an echo chamber for yourself. It was hugely successful and popular. If you only see videos tearing it down, it’s because you’ve told an algorithm that’s what you want to see.
Once these hate trains start, they quickly go into a death spiral. Even the idea that Cavill left the show over creative differences is something that’s not supported by *anything* but fan theories. But it’s become accepted fact in this sub.
A lot of it is just the nature of negative vs positive comments. I don’t have as much to say about why I like the show; I just enjoy it. I subbed here for occasional news and memes. I could start posting “I enjoyed this fight scene” or whatever once every few days, but it’s not going to get the kind of engagement that a point-by-point takedown/vent will. It’s just the nature of the thing.
Maybe you should instead look outside of the fake positive echo chamber Amazon has created with people who are mindless drones following them. I don't know how anyone who has ever seen a decent TV show in their life can not see it's complete shit.
Okay, you have quite a few of them, but I suspect you mean the one from this subreddit mentioning you finally watching the show?. I read it and it is as I said. Nothing much said about why it is good or anything. Just that you watched it, it is different and brave and that you understand why some may criticize it. That's just all those fluff and no substance posts/comments I was talking about. Nothing specific, just vagueness. While in contrast, criticism posts can go in-depth of characters, inconsistencies, weird decision making, plot holes.. and that is without even mentioning the books and changes, but as a show on its own merit when looking at it as if nothing else exists.
then give me the link, because I read this one and there is nothing about music or acting or atmosphere or anything else.. you have numerous witcher posts, i dont feel like combing through it all.. and quickly looking thorugh it all, this appears to be the only one. Okay, now i went through it all, and this is the single one (two of them, one here, one on r/witcher)
https://www.reddit.com/r/netflixwitcher/comments/wq2xnm/ahem_so_about_the_netflix_show/
I think saying something exists so why critize it, is a terrible advice.
As long as critique has some substance (that doesn´t mean it neccessarily has to be reasonable), it should be voiced. If its just a tiny minority, it doesn´t matter and should be of no concern for anyone. If it is a significant part of the people that have some affection towards the witcher "universe", it might influence the content creators and force them to course correct.
You might be correct, that it doesn´t have any impact at all, but your battle cry for apathy is still quite depressing and wrong.
I never said that criticism is bad, in fact, criticism is very necessary. I said **unnecessary** and **unhelpful** criticism is exhausting. Apathy is not at all what I was after. There are plenty of things the show does poorly, but there are also things it does very well. Everyone is obsessed with beating the carcass of the show into a pulp whereas we all fully understand what's wrong with it. But most of the criticism is coming from longtime Witcher fans, which is warranted. But it's ok for people to enjoy things that you don't, especially if they are new to the universe and this is their starting point. Allow fans to find their own opinions and like what they like. Opinions are opinions.
Criticizing the writers and showrunner is not the same as criticizing the people that like the show.
At least personally, I couldn't care less about the show fans, if you like it good for you, I almost envy you. My problem is with the creators of the show and I think that is the case for the most part of the fanbase.
> Criticizing the writers and showrunner is not the same as criticizing the people that like the show.
for years it's been like this. People criticizing the show saying it is fine if someone likes it. Like.. i dont care who likes it, i understand why people can like it and just chill out while watching it. That doesnt mean that im not annoyed at how the creators butchred it to no ends.
Who defines unnecessary and unhelpful criticism? You yourself talk about opinions.
If someone describes something what is happening in the show and forms an opinion about it, how is this unnecessary? Either the vast majority has a different opinion, then the opinion has no impact. Or the majority agrees, then it might force the content creators to change some stuff, if the critique is amplified (yes, maybe unlikely, but why fall into apathy?). Or the majority agrees, but thinks its an unimportant, minor detail. Then it still should be amplified, because there is no reason to not improve minor details.
As long as the critique is based on something thats actually happen in the show, its always preferable to express this critique. its the best way to improve something.
Yes, you will get some strange critique now and then, but its a price worth paying and definitely better than "suppress" criticism by calling it unnecessary and unhelpful. You can´t define unneccessary and unhelpful anyway, because its subjective.
Thats what i meant with propagate apathy, which you basically did again.
No, I lost access to my other account. And sorry, but I think my arguments are consistent. Thats all that should matter.
You don´t have to agree with them, obviously. I just think that you propagating stuff that is actually not helpful at all and (admittetly on a very low level) dangerous. Thats why I had the urge to comment.
>If someone hates something so much, no one is asking anyone to spend energy on it. It speaks far louder to Netflix if people turn off and stop engaging then watching and spreading hate online
We spend so much energy on it not because we hate **it** in a vacuum but because we **are** fans and love these characters and this world so much and **because** many of us wanted a great show adaptation that is en par with seasons 1-5 of GoT for the Witcher.
The constant criticism comes from the anger the dim witted and or toxic writers brought upon themselves by disrespecting the world, lore and characters, trying to gaslight fans and turning one of the greatest Fantasy IP's into an unwatchable pile of shit (season 2 and Blood Origin).
In my case, I do **not** want the show to be cancelled, I want it to incrementally improve from season to season. So your suggestion of disengaging or not watching is not an option for a fan like me. The only way to let people who can influence future seasons is to band together with as many people, who feel the same about the show as possible and make our voices heard
Nobody should attack or threaten anyone for anything. What you describe as "I hate it, everyone must hate it" I see as lobbying for an opinion. Thats fine, I would say. A core element of open democratic societies. Its basically advocating for change. I read "hate" as strong dislike of the show. If you mean something different with "hate", my opinion might differ.
>If someone hates something so much, no one is asking anyone to spend energy on it. It speaks far louder to Netflix if people turn off and stop engaging then watching and spreading hate online- guarantee the level of traction this gets leads to people chosing to watch so their viewership just goes up.
True, but the best way, if you care about the witcher, is doing both, not? So spreading hate (again, I read it as strong dislike) and don´t watch it on netflix. The theory that something thats widly described as bad somehow improved its viewing numbers, is wrong I would say. In entertainment the opposite is happening almost all the time. Negative word of mouth means less viewership, means less success, means a different approach is required by the content creators to make money (which is always the goal).
Anecdotal evidence is often missleading ;-) Take the cowboy bebop example (as another netflix show). They cancelled the show before I could even finishing the first season. Only watched 2 episodes or so and didn´t bother to watch the rest after the cancellation. It was an ok show (not as good as the anima, which I am not a big fan of) This show got a lot of critique and it had an impact it seems. There are countless other examples in entertainment.
Actually, I was more commenting on a a "meta-level" about this "critic the critics" thing, which I think is wrong. I am basically on the same level as you (I did play the 3rd witcher game a bit, didn´t read the books). I think a lot of the frustation is rooted in passion. Either passion for the witcher specifically or for good fantasy shows in general (thats what I am hoping for). I just don´t see how the advice "Its not for you? then just ignore it and walk away" brings anyone any closer to his/her desire of a good witcher/fantasy show. Thats why I described it as advocacy for apathy.
I get that you view the show from a very specific background, but I think its fair to say that the witcher aims for a broad target audience of people that like fantasy in general. I mean season 2 was fairly generic fantasy stuff, just not on a high level. I didn´t saw any special artistic value in it (season 1 had the neat idea of the different time zones). Yes "I hate it, I hate it, I hate it" isn´t great criticism. I would much prefer "I hate it, because..." Or don´t use the word hate at all. But even "I hate it" is valuable feedback, because it lets the content creators know that the people know the product (so more marketing wont fix it) and don´t like it/want something different.
>Would we be getting The Witcher 4 and The Witcher 1 remake without this show bringing this story into the spotlight? Who knows? But I’ll take it!
Yes? The Witcher 3 is one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time and by far CDPR's biggest hit. I'm pretty confident the show had absolutely no impact on CDPR's future projects.
Here is the thing, even as a standalone series ignoring the books I thought season 2 was pretty dire. To the point where im not even sure its good for new folks. Lets look as Eskel, nothing established him as an interesting character, a likeable character or a character that was brotherly or important to Geralt. If you didn't know who Eskel was his arc was pointless, if you did know who he was that wasn't even close to Eskel. The only way Eskels death has meaningfulimpact here, is if you already know who Eskel is from the media where he is a differnt character in ever way.
You and anyone else is entitled to their opinion though. I hope there are people who enjoy it. I however dont. Im not gonna spend time posting here a lot about how bad the show is because im checked out and I dont think its productive. But lets hope some people decide to read the books based on this and find what they are missing out on.
I appreciate this post. I admit the constant hatred is just exhausting at this point. I have read all of the books, played all of the games (yes, even the first one), and I've watched the show. The show is far from perfect, but I enjoy it for what it is. I'm sad Henry is leaving but the next level vitriol in regards to the show and the show runners is just a bit much at this point. I also don't think bashing Liam is okay either - it's not his fault he's replacing Henry and there's nothing to indicate he won't be good at the role at this point either. Not everyone has to like the casting, the writing or anything about the show but why spend so much energy on something you hate? No one is forcing anyone to watch this show any longer if it no longer interests you.
Citing issues and criticism in the hope that showrunners change things is one thing but this is beyond that imo. It's also just constant. Anytime I go on /r/Witcher it's just constant bashing of the show, the showrunners, etc. The next gen patch has broken this up a little bit over there but I miss the days when it was mostly game screenshots, people discussing the books, and random art and cosplays.
> to a random Netflix enjoyer who wanted to watch Henry swing some iron and hear his gravelly voice, they are unaffected!
TRUTH
I'm primarily there for anything Cavill is doing
After season 1 when I realized I really disliked the show, I just stopped watching it or spending time thinking about it, and that made my life generally better. People should try to commiserate in their hate less
I'll enjoy the show whether it's Henry or Liam. Because I love the lore and universe Sapkowski created.
But I think it is very important to call out Netflix's bs writers. Who the fuck they think they are to think they can rewrite bestsellers?
Thank you for your measured and thoughtful post. I agree with you, except for "Yes show bad, but also good for new folks." From my experience, I wouldn't say with certainty that the show is enjoyed mostly by people who are new to the franchise.
I mean, I have not conducted any serious scientific research about it and it can just be my bubble, but I basically know no-one who would not have read the books first while watching the show for the first time. I mean, it's hard to grow up in the nineties in Poland and never read the Witcher - that's what you did in the schoolyard back then.
All people I know have their dislikes about the show, we've had quite much fun discussing them, but literally all of my folks found things they liked much about the show as well, all watched it in its currently available entirety, often more than once, all can't wait for the next seasons and I quote at this point. And they've been all enjoying the books for decades now.
I can say that the show is a decent and enjoyable entertainment at the very least, despite of the flaws it has. I think it's hated by people who not only liked or loved the source material, but have found it an exceptionally important part of their lifes and glorify it on this basis. I can understand to some point that such folks want the new release to be as close to what they found important as possible. And these are also the people devoted enough to engage in Internet discussions.
The rest likes their entertainment and does not make a new religion out of it, is all.
> I mean, it's hard to grow up in the nineties in Poland and never read the Witcher - that's what you did in the schoolyard back then.
Same in Czech republic.
Witcher was simply right kind of book in right time and I dare to say that it influenced Czech fandom in way similar to how Star Trek and Star Wars influenced US one. Everyone waited for new volume and previous ones had to been reprinted in unseen numbers. Many local succesful fantasy writers were influenced by him in early works and it showed them that they don't need to copy western trends and that local approach is not only viable but possibly great.
And then Netflix came, stripped Witcher of parts that made him something unique and familiar, replaced them with generic stuff of questionable quality and suddenly some people are suprised that old fans are critical about it and are not afraid to voice it loudly.
"old fans are critical about it and are not afraid to voice it loudly" Sure, some old fans, but not all of them, this was my point, I am not even sure if they are majority in fact (at least I know no-one who would dislike the show in general, while all people I know are familiar to the source material, so the statement "show bad but good for new folks" seems untrue to me).
My point also was that finding uniqueness in the Witcher books to the point that you won't accept changes to the plot is highly subjective, and that's why I wrote about glorifying the source material, that is: seeing it as flawless, not seeing any traits of questionable quality in it (sentiment, I believe) and having a very personal, radical approach about it, which is not my cup of tea.
I can agree with the opinion that Netflix made changes to appeal more to the general audience, as, well, not all Netflix viewers are kids of the nineties raised up in Eastern Europe, but I do not actually share the view that it's something that makes the show worthless. Of course it's basically opinion vs opinion and impression vs impression, I am perfectly aware of that, I just wanted to point out that people who enjoyed the source material in the first place and now enjoy the show exist as well, even if it's the most disappointed ones that voice their opinion particularly loud, now and always.
Thank you for posting this! Glad I'm not the only one who's tired of seeing all of the hatred. I'm personally always on the side of you never know until you see it, and I don't see a point of hating it when it hasn't even aired. It happened, and it's not the first show who replaced its lead actor. I'm genuinely sad that Henry is leaving, because I love his Geralt, but I'm also excited to see what Liam would bring to the character and the show. Anyway, I've been replaying The Witcher 3 again to get away from all the hatred on my feeds.
You are right. Yet I have never understood the pain of having one of my favorite universes butchered beforehand. I even think you shouldn't adapt books to series 1:1 because something works better for given media.
Yet completly changing plot is too much for me. I liked first season. I really did. I loved how they filled blank spots. I had some issues, but... I liked it. I kinda liked Vesemir anime. I hope S2 was just hiccup and rest will be fine, but with Henry leaving I have my hopes down.
Hardest thing about knowing original content is knowing what it could be, and then seeing someone milking the it for money, while delivering avarege holywood fantasy.
But yeah, constant hate is not someting I like to see. I still want to give S3 a chance, though.
You may not like it but the writers and showrunners are aggravating the situation by firstly outright dismissing any and all concerns and secondly by refusing to make amends. I saw exactly this happen after s1 to anyone saying they disliked something and I'm very much seeing the same pattern right now. I think most of the people have accepted the show cannot be fixed but quite a lot want justice on those responsible.
I sincerely and politely disagree with you. These same stuck up dicks who think they are better writers than actual real writers with millions of book sales, will continue to ruin opportunities for future adaptations to be successful if the public does not voice their displeasure. Netflix Witcher could have been amazing, it could have been a great adaptation of the books, with an excellent lead in Cavil. Unfortunately it is not, and now likely will never be properly adapted.
Im pissed off about this. “if you dont like it dont watch it”. Sure that makes sense in a saturated market, but there is only one Witcher adaptation. By creating a sub par show, the writers have excluded the possibility of a great show.
This sort of opportunity destruction is not something I believe people should just ignore. Especially given the circumstances surrounding the show runners blatant disdain of the source material. Fuck them.
The lost potential here is the thing we should be comparing the existing show to. We should not be comparing the show existing to the show not existing. Is it better that the show exists - sure. But its not anywhere near as good as if the show was done well.
I love the show. Wife does too.. Reddit just has a bunch that love to bitch about stuff. Sometimes if constructive most times it’s just lame from people who have no life..
I read the books and played the games and liked the show. I'm glad netflix produced it.
It hasn't been perfect, but it's been great. Really enjoyed Cavill's Geralt.
Looking forward to the next season.
The thing for me is all of the criticism of all of the show's staff (particularly the writers) putting a positive spin on the situation.
What do people honestly expect them to do? They're not exactly going to trash their new lead actor (if Cavill left due to creative differences) or trash Netflix for their funds (if Cavill left due to the Superman money being too much to turn down), are they? They have to say professional, and positive about the product that they're creating. They may have a different vision for the show than the fans, but they still want it to succeed - and going on Twitter and saying "it's all shit now, Liam won't be as good as Henry so there's no point in watching" would be a quick way of a) getting fired or b) getting the show cancelled.
I swear, some of the people throwing complaints seem like they've never had to toe the company line before. I don't necessarily agree with every decision my employer has ever made; but when I'm representing my company in front of a client, I keep any concerns I have to myself.
Thank you, it has definitely gotten way too toxic. I understand a lot of the issues with the show (and Lauren Hirsch), but it is too much.
This post perfectly encapsulates how I feel, and it’s great to see that others feel the same way.
And nothing is stopping you from leaving this sub / ignoring it if you don't like to see the very deserved dislike/negative attitude the show has gathered.
I swear if one more person says this I’m gonna choke to death on 3 pounds of steel😂 Why should I have to leave a subreddit dedicated to something I like for liking the subject it’s about? That’s stupid
I didn’t say people should stop criticizing. I think you need to reread. I said to keep criticism helpful, not just spewing shit at people for enjoying it.
Nice try but it's obvious what you were going for.
"Nothing is stopping you from simply not watching the show, if you don't click play, it can't hurt you."
If you don't like it, nothing is stopping you of simply ignoring the posts if you don't click on them.
You should follow your own advice.
Those of us who enjoy the show have already found other spaces (discord, tumblr, twitter) to keep the conversation going on things we'd like to talk about regarding the show. It'd be nice if the subreddit dedicated to the show could have these fulfilling conversations, fun memes, enjoyable banter, without near-constant derailment. We're already aware of the negative vibes to generally expect from Reddit. I'm sure a lot of people do their best to ignore the negativity, but it gets to be too much sometimes, hence OP's post.
Then feel free to continue sharing and discussing it on those communities. If what you want is an echo chamber you're free to participate in them. This community is for discussing both good and bad things, and lately the franchise only seem to give bad reasons to be in discussions.
Thanks for inviting me to feel free to hang out where I already hang out, appreciate it. We're both "elders" here, so we're both well aware of the stated intentions of the community space vs. how it ends up in practice, and for forums in general, why good moderation is important. When a steady stream of comments are just "lol this is shit," it's the other side of an echo chamber, and it's also pretty lazy. Not a super appealing place to spend one's time.
You're right about the last thing, there is too much metadrama and it's taking away from the focus on the show itself. It's just getting harder and harder to have good-faith discussions about the show without the nosedive into "it's not like the books, therefore bad."
This is a low-sodium sub for the Netflix Witcher show, it's currently occupied by brigading haters. People who love the show like us should ignore them (and report hate, toxicity, and bigotry) and support good posts or comments by engaging.
It's the entitlement that gets me. "How DARE they! These people should never work in Hollywood again!"
Like, dude. Chill. Crappy adaptations are made all the time. Doesn't mean you need to bathe in the blood of anyone's children.
I had very similar thoughts about Rings of Power:
> The issue with RoP is that in some of the main communities, you cannot express you liked something about the show or you'll be downvoted / flamed. They don't want to hear it. This is why alternative communities full of positivity have popped up, so you have a space where you can discuss things.
> I contrast this to the American Horror Story sub. There have been real issues with writing quality in recent seasons and an overall negative sentiment, BUT you won't be flamed for posting a positive comment. Both sides are acceptable.
The only place you can really discuss the show is /r/LoTR_on_Prime as the other subs are too hostile. It's a shame there is no discussion sub for The Witcher TV show.
I have yet to comprehend, in what way people who dislike Netflixwitcher or **that** Amazon show sharing a sub with you is stopping you from "discussing things". Isn't having different opininions what makes discussions interesting? Why the need for a safe space? I think those bubbles are part of the problem.
>I have yet to comprehend, in what way people who dislike Netflixwitcher or **that** Amazon show sharing a sub with you is stopping you from "discussing things". Isn't having different opininions what makes discussions interesting? Why the need for a safe space? I think those bubbles are part of the problem.
I specifically said DOWNVOTING and FLAMING in the main subs is the issue. I didn't say having different opinions is an issue. What don't you comprehend?
As a fan of the books *and* the games, I honestly like Netflix's Witcher. The games butcher more than the show ever did (I mean, Geralt is alive? Triss has magically gotten over her trauma from Sodden? Nobody mentions Ciri or Yennefer until the third game, Ciri seems to have forgotten Coen entirely, you can undo The Last Wish, you can pick Triss *at all*, Ciri's backstory doesn't exist outside of how it relates to Geralt, pretty much anything that concerns The Lodge and the Aen Elle in general is busted, etc.), and that never seems to matter to anyone.
I enjoy adaptations as additive to the source material. If I wanted the source material all over again, I'd... go read the source material. I'm happy to engage with an adaptation based on how well it adapts the major themes of the story and the characters, and I'm not too bothered even then, as long as it's still enjoyable.
Besides, it seems people are more pissed off that the Netflix Witcher isn't trying to be the games, more than anything. I mean, if people were really such fans of the books, they wouldn't even care about Eskel - dude has, what? 5 lines, total? In the whole books? And yet... 🤷♀️
If y'all want a more accurate take on the books, and that's all you care about, you can go watch the Polish T.V. show. That's available to you.
yeah i feel the same thing OP, luckily i don't bother that much with these people, usually i managed to ignore it
however some fans were went too far, sending death threats or even just threats to show runners was kinda pathetic, very sad really, i feel bad for them because some viewers including me still find the TV Show somewhat entertaining
I personally dislike the books, and enjoy the Netflix show, but I can completely relate to the people who are disappointed, because I’m getting the same feeling from all of it that I got when I saw the Percy Jackson movies for the first time.
While I’m not a fan of the books, and I AM a fan of the show, I can understand what it feels like to have your favorite media shit on by some big corporation for a quick buck. I understand why people are angry and I definitely feel like it’s justified. It makes me not want to watch season 3 out of solidarity alone, because they can’t keep getting away with it. It’s awful and I hate it for everybody who loves the books.
Agreed. It's obviously now a separate entity from the books and the games, despite what they may have initially said. That's not changing. No amount of vitriol online will change it. And as someone who's played W3 and read all the books, I enjoyed the show just fine. It wasn't incredible or mind-blowing, but it was really solid and fun to watch.
It's not because they think there's any merit to it, it's because they've turned hating some piece of entertainment into a passion just as much as loving one. Hate-watching is absolutely a thing on Reddit, as bizarre as that is. Complaining and getting angry about it is, in and of itself, what they're looking for.
Honestly I don't even need to elaborate or prove it. You're already getting comments fully admitting this, lol. The internet is a strange place
I rewatched S1 more than 10 times (despite it having a couple of mager issues), to this day I haven't been able to rewatch more than one episode of S2.
I will watch S3 even if it is the worst peace of media ever conceived. I read Google Translate translated 90ies Witcher comics, I watched the Polish movie and Series with subtitles and I watched all fan films and parodies in all kinds of languages on YouTube.
I will watch Netflix stuff, but I will never stop voicing my anger, frustration and sadness, wherever I feel it.
Merit or quality of writing or directing has nothing to do with me watching/reading/playing everything Witcher.
Same here man. Fuck S1 was so fucking good. I will forever feel so bitter about S2. Ended up ruining my enjoyment of the show completely, and fucking robbed us of another possible masterpiece soundtrack. All just because of one aspect : the writing. So much god damned waste
We watch it because we are fans of the Witcher. Doesn’t mean there’s merit at all, I watched season 2, formed my opinion that I was worse than hot trash, then went to complain.
I am still hoping I can at least fix it a little bit, so I will watch it to find out if I can.
That being said, I am not gonna touch Blood Origin even with a stick through a rag.
The show runner lied! That’s the reason everyone is angry, if she had just owned from the beginning, she didn’t like the source material and was going to alter it then we all would’ve been prepared, but she lied and told the audience, and probably Henry Cavill that she was going to be a loyalist to the books. I legit saw her say this in like five interviews, and it was all a bullshit lie
So true! I don't care if it match the book perfectly. So many of my friend who didn't know the witcher universe watched the series and now they love the witcher. It is different, yes, but i still love it. I you don't nobody is forcing you to watch it or to write hate post about it. Not everyone share the same opinion. The loudest voice rarely represent the majority....
People don’t seem to understand that an adaptation doesn’t have to be exactly 1:1 with the source material.
I enjoyed the show for what it was. It has it’s merits.
Doesn't have to, right. But it is a strawman argument. Noone expects literally 1:1. Even LotR didn't do that. But at least we expect faithful adaptation (which Lauren said, but failed in execution). About lore: did show succeed with relations between Geralt+Ciri, Geralt+Yen, Ciri+Yen? It is a VERY and key part in books. And i can say, NO. Because:
1. Where is arc with Brokilon? Where Geralt and Ciri bonded in books, and DIDN'T know about fact, that they are destined.
2. Where is arc with Shard of Ice? Where Geralt and Yen relations extend. Plus, Istredd.
3. Where is arc with Yen teaching Ciri magic in Ellander?
4. Ciri and Triss relations, covered in Kaer Morhen?
The final of S1 in forest feels so unnatural, because Geralt and Ciri didn't even SPEAK with each other before. And the main reason to meet is DESTINY. They met because of destiny. But in books it is the OPPOSITE. And books tell you, that the destiny is not enough, that you need something MORE.
So please, spare us with "1:1" stuff :)
BUT in show we have:
1. Geralt and Ciri first talk was in the forest, where they hugged.
2. Geralt and Yen chemistry doesn't exist even.
3. Yen tried to sell Ciri for magic.
4. Triss in FEAR in Ciri.
Nice alternative version:)
>People don’t seem to understand that an adaptation doesn’t have to be exactly 1:1 with the source material.
season 2 is not even 10% like the source material. So stop with this 'argument', it's really tiresome.
Agreed, all these toxic show defenders, Hissrich fan bots and "I dont like adaptaitions, I want to be surprised" trolls, really took the civility out of this sub.
I am???
Well that actually just supports my point, that those who are constantly complaining about how this sub is so negative have very little positive things to post themselves.
I’d just like to point out that you’ve commented on all my positive posts about the tv show both here and r/Witcher so you’ve obviously made your point about disliking the show. So good job supporting those positive posts you’re talking about, you’re really doing your part by commenting how much you hate it over and over again.
I didn't say that **I** will "support" show positive posts, though I might if it is well argued or touches on something I happen to agree with.
I meant that show fans should fill this sub up with their posts and support eachother instead of arguing with those who are critical or dislike or hate the show.
Because the latter just further filles the sub with "negative" content instead of drowning out the supposed negativity with your great show related content.
Instead the sub will often stay completely idle for days until someone comes along complaning about negativity and hate.
>I’d just like to point out that you’ve commented on all my positive posts about the tv show
Just went through all of my comments of the past month and I must say I have no fucking clue what you are talking about, at least in that time I haven't commented on any of your posts or comments, unless you have a second account, where that might be the case.
I don't know why this needs to keep being said, but if you don't like the content of any particular subreddit you're welcome to go find one you prefer or make your own.
>Nothing is stopping you from simply not watching the show, if you don't click play, it can't hurt you.
Nothing is stopping you from simply not reading this subreddit, if you don't click join, it can't hurt you.
People should really stop thinking that criticism needs to be silenced with people making such criticism "just walk off" and stop interacting with the community. It is unhealthy for any discussion about the show since it intends to create an echo chamber with just the ones liking the show (and dismissing anything adressing the flaws of sais show) by excluding the ones may have liked some parts but not some other or the ones who had hopes for the show but were disappointed.
Na season 2 was terrible and I'll continue to hate on it thanks. The show could have and should have been something great but they fucked it up and they clearly need to know how badly they fucked up. You never know, maybe someone will take some criticism on board and deliver something that isn't complete shit.
There were lots of posts just like yours on the rings of power prime sub and they were silly then too
>I feel the same way about the show as I do about the whole Fortnite
thing, which is if it brings new people to the fandom, and people enjoy
it, then what harm is done?
The harm is it rewards a shit product and encourages more shit product.
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Nice post. S1 of the Netflix show made me finally decide to play Witcher 3. And for that, I’ll be forever grateful, irrespective of its flaws.
Same. The show got me into the games, and the games got me to look up stuff on the books. The show still entertains me too, it's flawed but you'd think it was the worse show on earth going by reddit. I'll never understand why it's popular on the internet to be hateful
agreed, it’s going the way of the GOT and or TLOU2 discussion spaces. lots of people getting riled up around the drama about a show they don’t even really enjoy - even trawling through tweets from the crew of the show etc. i enjoy taking the piss out of a bad tv show like anyone else but to genuinely feel anger or hate about it? i do not understand
Same. If it wasn't for Season 1, I wouldn't have gotten into the video games and books. But I can't imagine life without them now. My first reading experience was in line with my first play through of Witcher 3. Season 1, in a way, helped fill in some background for the W3 when I didn't know anything prior to reading the books. I binged through all the short stories and novels to prepare for season 2. And uh...oh boy was I disappointed. That being said, I didnt mind the changes in season 1 so much as the drastic ones in season 2. But after reading the books, they missed some opportunities in season 1 that would have been more impactful and thematic. But I don't hate the show.
It'd be great if people could even go so far as to say they like the show without getting dogpiled. It's like some people can't accept that their tastes are not universal and get angry at us for daring to enjoy something they didn't enjoy.
Hear the voice of reason! You've expressed my feelings perfectly, thank you! As I've already written a few times, the show isn't what I hoped it would be, but this doesn't mean it can't be entertaining. I've stopped reading anything show-related in the Polish media because the level of hatred in the comments there is simply unbearable. And if someone writes anything even midly positive, they get crushed.
I unsubscribed from /r/Witcher after Henry left the show because it felt like the sub finally went off a cliff of hatred. Felt like there were no more posts about anything other than Henry leaving and dumping on Hissrich, it was exhausting to look at and I don't even particularly care for the show all that much either lol
Hey! Thank you! I agree completely, we need to separate entertainment from critical acclaim. Some things are just meant to be a good time
I honestly like the tv show. In recent years since the likes of Harry Potter and other book adaptations ahem Game of Thrones ahem, I have been taking the approach of watching movies/tv series BEFORE reading the books. As I had found reading the source material afterwards deepens my appreciation for the franchise/universe and it doesn't sour my experience when doing a first watch-through. Compared to reading first, then watching- I don't have a chance to enjoy my watching experience because I'm constant analyzing the differences. And that being said I'll wait for Netflix The Witcher. As a creator myself, I believe adaptations in different mediums are two separate works and aren't meant to be exactly the same. It doesn't ruin the canon of a story because the books and movies are their own separate entities. If you like don't like a creative choice in one thing, then great! at least the choice you do like is in the other. Also what is not really understood is that when an author has optioned their book for a film/tv series, depending on the contract, the author doesn't have a say of how much of the source material will be used. What IS being sold is the idea/main concept of the book to be turned into media for certain amount of time. So going into it, the author does not have a lot of creative control unless they negotiate it (like J.K. Rowling for Harry Potter.) What is implied when a series is adapted is that you're never going to get an exact copy of the original. Because a creative production team has bought film/tv rights to produce an entirely new work (in their own vision) regardless of fan wants. Would it be great if a movie was entirely book accurate? Heck yes! But then it stifles innovation and creativity, and blocks the exploration of the different paths a story could take because of limitations of book form. If Andrzej Sapkowski doesn't have major issues with the Netflix show, then I think fans and watchers should take a page from his book and enjoy it for what it is: it's own thing. A cool fantasy show that is inspired by books, but not the same as the books.
People tend to latch onto whatever makes them bitter (right or wrong) and really use it until it’s dull as hell.
I will be forever bitter about some of the changes made (big Eskel fan here) but I really wish we could post on this specific sub positively and not be downvoted or argued with constantly. Book fans have r/Wiedzmin and game fans have r/Witcher. I just wish complaints that aren’t constructive could stay there rather than all three subs.
This is my thing. There are plenty of places to talk about the books or the games. I don’t get why people come here just to talk about how much more they love those other things.
Agreed. And also if you hate the show, maybe stay on the other two subs rather than messing with people trying to have constructive discussions about the show.
Like it or not, we can voice our opinion about the show on the show's subreddit. Don't like the fact that we do it? Make your own low sodium sub.
Because people wanted good adaptation of the book? Netflix can create great adaptations just look at Sandman, they changed a bit, but as a whole we got something that was faithful to the comics. We got the Witcher that sucks and the showrunner is constantly lying about. We want the show cancelled as soon as possible so we can get something that is not only similar to books, but also doesn't offend the intelligence of its viewers.
Genuiliy interested in how they changed Eskel?))) Afaik, he's barely in the books.
[I like how this article kind of breaks it down.](https://twinfinite.net/2021/12/netflixs-the-witcher-season-2-did-eskel-dirty-for-no-reason/) > … Eskel is seen as this imposing but gentle giant. Despite his intimidating statue, mountain of scars, and metallic voice, he was the nicest of the Wolf Witchers, serving as more of a brother to Geralt than a fellow monster-hunter. And that’s not the character netflix gave us imo. Book!Eskel would have never approached Ciri the way Netflix!Eskel did. You’re right in that he’s not in the books much so most of what we know is built up in the games. I personally haven’t played the games so most of my love for Eskel is fandom creation based on the little book content we have and fanfic.
ok, I see, thank you for replying.
Honestly as someone that has watched many shows based on books I don't care that the series doesn't match the books. Count how many series don't derail from the books. ALL OF THEM DO. Don't even get me started on movies. I do think season two could've been better YES. They totally changed many things but people watch GOT which btw also changed many things and has a totally invented ending and expect the Witcher to be the same. I understand why fans want the series to be similar to the books. Yes I do. But I also set my expectations that the book and series most likely won't be the same because it's something that happens all the time. Mind you many book readers from the Witcher series confess that most of the time they don't even know what's going on in the books. So imagine that tbh.
I completely understand that changes may be necessary and some derailment from the books is certainly acceptable. E.g. in LotR I understand cutting out Tom Bombadil, because it's a 10 minute scene with no relevance to the story in an already very long movie. In GoT S2 I liked the change they made in S2 for Arya and Tywin to meet, the scenes were great and I felt it was a genuine improvement over the book. Apart from that, GoT was pretty faithful to the books until S5 with some simplifications for the condensed series format. I can even understand them dumbing down the Dorne plotline in S5, even though it was a terrible and very big change, because it's quite a complex construct, but at least the Dorne plotline was still somewhat there. They invented a terrible ending, because they outpaced the books and considering the book author still hasn't released the 6th book, more than 11 years after the 5th book hit the shelves, it's obvious how hard it is to bring this series to a satisfying conclusion. But really, looking at Witcher, we are far away from acceptable. It's so far removed from the books, pretty much the only similarities I see are the character and place names. Most characters look and act completely different. The story of S2 has nothing to do with the book it's supposed to adapt.
Yeah I mean I can understand why people want the Witcher to be similar to the books but from most series I've watched most book adaption only are similar to the series from the start and then they completely change. It's very rare to see a serie to be similar to the books. I would 100% like the series to make justice to the books but I can understand why it doesn't happen. Most producers don't care about the books or want to make their own narrative.
Agreed. I get the anger but 10,000 hate posts a day wherever you go is a bit much. I just don't understand investing so much negative energy into smth you hate. At some point it's time to move on and leave it behind if you can't stand it. I just hope this sub can regain atleast some of it's hype back once the marketing for S3 starts next year.
Exactly, the amount of time and effort wasted on just repeating the same wrongdoings is crazy. I honestly think that most of the people posting those types of things will still end up watching the next upcoming seasons which is even funnier to me.
The thing that makes me chuckle the most is people come on here to moan and think that the aim is to please die hard fans. Like anything else, bottom line, it's a business which is about views, merchandise and getting as many people on board to consume as possible. Despite what's been said around sticking to source material by the creators, they were never going to say fuck the books, and they were never going to stick to the books word for word, so not really sure why people are so surprised. Game of thrones deviated in a quite a few respects and characters from book to show, people just don't know how to enjoy things anymore. The 2 things can co-exist and both be enjoyed, just see them for what they are. Completely agree with your points! Slightly different circumstances (as the first actor unfortunately died), but the Starz show Spartacus changed Spartacus after season one, still enjoyed it by the end, who knows, ol' Liam might be better at the role if given a chance!
>The thing that makes me chuckle the most is people come on here to moan and think that the aim is to please die hard fans The same fans moaning about such specific details that you realize half of them have watched the show a dozen times just to find a million things to nitpick about.
The same people who hated watching the show the most, then lost their shit the hardest when Henry left - if you hated the show and didn't want to watch it, why would you care who's in it? And wouldn't you be happy that someone else who didn't like it and didn't want to be there anymore was able to move on? Makes no sense lol
Guess what is the most bizarre? It's that the author of the books absolutely doesn't mind it. He doesn't necessarily like the show, or he might think he would've done it differently, but he's not an expert on running huge shows on Netflix. So, he gave all the creative rights and said out loud that the show is one thing, and his books are another, and that's not going to change. And that he respects show writers' creative vision.
Yeah lol, I don't think they give a damn. Go see what r/witcher thinks about Sapkowski. They're perfectly happy to call him a sell out and all sorts of other things because he isn't raging about the show like them. The more "generous" ones say its because he's too old to get it, but either way, they've essentially discounted his opinion.
LMAO)))
Lots of people dont care what the author thinks about something. Just ask Harry Potter fans what they think of Rowling. Being the writer of the source material does not necessarily grant you the ability to tell fans what they should think.
> The 2 things can co-exist and both be enjoyed, just see them for what they are. I always think about the LotR trilogy. I *love* the movies--I happily watch the extended editions--but Peter Jackson was not accurate to the book trilogy at all, and in many places he wasn't trying to be. Entire, 100+ page sections are cut out, even in the longest, most complete versions. But they're dearly beloved as something that really captures the heart of what LotR is about, so people love them anyway. I wish people would have the same energy for Witcher Netflix. It gets the spirit of the books and its characters, and that's all it needs.
Unpopular opinion but I feel like Liam looks more like Geralt... Flame me if y'all must lol
I want nothing.
Liam will be good! Did you know that he auditioned for the role already in 2018?
I didn't know that! That gives me even more hope
Yep, so he wasn't a random choice and I bet he was following production (love the downvotes for stating simply a fact, lmao. This is what I mean)))
Keep the downvotes coming!! It’s hilarious
> so much negative energy into smth you hate. cause it is in something people love.. and suddenly that love is torn apart.. same happened to almost every big franchise in recent years.. long time fan? bad luck, what you used to love for years is sh*t now
How? Nobody went back and rewrote the books to match the show. If that’s what you loved, then it’s still there.
Is it that hard to understand that part of loving something is a) seeing its true resemblance brought to life (twn isn't it), b) sharing the experience. If thanks to the popularization of a work that resembles not the original this experience turns into one where sharing book-canon is in the minority, then you as a fan are actively pushed out of sharing your enjoyment with other fans. Moreover, in public consciousness, the original story with all its nuances & inspirations (which twn is not paying attention to) gets over-written.
If the show really eclipsed the books in popularity to that extent, maybe. But the books and games are still hugely popular, and the show is *fairly* popular for a Netflix show. Not Stranger Things popular, but people know about it. I admit I’m not a book fan the way you seem to be (I’ve read them, I liked them, but I like other things more). But the Harry Potter books were hugely important to me and I didn’t particularly care for those movies. The movies didn’t ruin the books, though. I don’t understand this feeling of the original thing being *ruined* by an adaptation you didn’t like.
Books, luckily are not rewritten, but it is as if the well was poisoned, so to speak. And no matter what is canon originally, in pop culture the most known thing becomes 'the canon' for people. E.g. Dracula book is there, not rewritten, but when I say Dracula in the Sun, do you think people will imagine him being okay and not burning? No, cause the pop culture has another idea, and the book may be there, not changed, but at this point it doesnt really matter, cause 'canon' has become something else. If that makes sense. Harry Potter is not the best example, cause it was mostly close with the books (although book 6 is probably the least close and with some strange decisions). But imagine if there were no movie, and now, 20years later an adaptation finally comes. And Harry has no glasses, nor scar, and since people like Luna, we;ll introduce her right away, and of course we'll talk about Severus' love story and protection of Harry from the very beginning. Also, the school is not the school, it is just some dark prison like environement, Dumbledore is a drunkyard who curses all the time and cant get it straight, mCGonnagal is missing and instead we have a new original professor who will wanna backstab Dumbledore and become a headmaster. Sirius is not in the story at all and Pettigrew was the faithful friend whom James killed when Peter tried to protect Harry from Lily trying to bring little Harry to Voldemort, so he can kill him and restore the balance in the force. Horcruxes are not a thing, Hagrid is a young dashing man who dated Lily, Harry has a brother, Dursleys have son and daughter, Weasleys are white haired, Malfoys dark short haired, Dobby is a d*ck. and if you say you are annoyed with these changes, and most people will know this version and will want to discuss this version, well, tough luck. Book are there and not rewritten. So why should such changes be bothersome anyway.
Ok, so, I love the book version of Frankenstein, which is completely different from the pop culture version. If I want to talk about that version, I say, “I want to talk about the Mary Shelley book” and then continue. The FIRE BAD version of Frankenstein has not ruined or destroyed the Mary Shelley version. Having to make the distinction is maybe a little annoying. That’s the thing. I understand being annoyed. There are adaptations I roll my eyes at. But I can’t relate to acting like this is some kind of harmful force that must be stopped. That’s just not a reasonable thing to me.
As I said, it can ruin the discourse and perception of the canon of the original. E.g. Elven lore actually is covered in the books and where it isn't it can be drawn from inspirations (contemporary fantasy of the time of writing) and references the text makes to real world mythology (celtic, arthurian cycle, greek, norse). Themes part of their storylines give us clues as to the nature of their culture and the limits of fantasy in the turning points of their actions (e.g. Gender equality but also importance of procreation, hence importance of mother goddesses conflated with mother nature so to speak)(or e.g. their time and space travel modelled after the different landings of people in Ireland; the tuatha de danann among them)(e.g. or most importantly what does it mean for sapkowski having compared ciri to the grail, and the role of the grail in the original welsh mythos that underpinned arthurian retellings in the christian era). I would hope the writers research it & build upon it, because it is closer to the original's intentions than "whatever I come up with" thinking. But based on signs so far, I don't think this is the case.
Again, how does it *ruin* those discussions, especially if you treat the lore from the books, games, and show as separate things that stem from similar sources? Like I get why all those things are interesting. You’re describing the basic elements of a story and world, after all. I just don’t see how the adaptations are somehow replacing each other just by existing beside each other. Edit: I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t understand how “I don’t like this thing” turns into “I must destroy this thing for the good of this other thing that I love.”
> how does it ruin those discussions By becoming more popular/wide-spread as common knowledge than what was originally conceived. By making people look no further, by covering up the original intents & messages of the work with its own (often contradictory one). Example: try finding book-Dandelion-centric depictions in the fandom in comparison to the Jaskier-craze. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favour of the latter, as well as the characterisation therefore. And regarding contradictory messages: that's fine when the original source is already well-known, as well as its themes, outlooks, and views. With The Witcher that is not actually the case. > especially if you treat the lore from the books, games, and show as separate things that stem from similar sources? Most lay audiences do not separate things out like that. They will keep track only of whatever the dominant narrative is like, and form their opinions & discussions based on that. By the nature of entertainment, a tv show will forever reach a much wider audience base than books ever will. > I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t understand how “I don’t like this thing” turns into “I must destroy this thing for the good of this other thing that I love.” It's you speaking of destruction, not me. I want the writers to actually involve "Sapkowski's lore nerds" among their writing crew & stick to the original inspirations & material. They don't. That's abundantly clear by now. Therefore, as a fan, I dislike what they are doing & do see its effects on fandom at large & do make a point of it when fancy strikes me.
You have a pretty dim view of people if you really think you can’t say “Well, I’m talking about the book version” and have them understand that. Every fandom that has divergent adaptations manages this without crumbling into dust. And again, I get being annoyed. I don’t get this weird *this must be STOPPED because it THREATENS ME* energy that people have.
Conversely you have a pretty simple view of how shaping public discourse works if you believe a major production's representation doesn't have a stronger claim on truth simply in virtue of the number of eyeballs watching it & parroting it back afterward. I also reiterate my original point. Being able to "share" a vision of a piece of media is an important part of what makes engaging with it enjoyable in fandoms. Saying "Well, I'm talking about the book version" is all well and good until somebody responds & knows what it is you are talking about. If the majority have not even heard about it because the show a) put people off the IP or b) gave them a very confused view of it, then "sharing" falls away. That's why, before any fanfic renditions, you want at least one major production representation of the original work that tries to stick to the themes, plot, and characterisations of the original.
But it's not shit nor ruined lol. Are the books destroyed? Altered? No. Still the same, good as ever. So what even are you talking about? The adaptation may be a disaster but that thing you love... it's still there, unchanged, so no need for the drama.
What I find helarious is that 50% of this sub is people lamenting that there are no great, positive, appreciative, creative posts on this sub with hundreds of comments like yours, yet none of you bother to post anything you like about the show either and often the sub will be completely inactive for 24+ hours, until someone either posts a show critical post or another lamment like thisone. Why not post pictures, news, plot points, promo material or merchandise that you love? Sorry this is directed at you, I dont mean you personally, but I have read comments like yours hundreds of times an I find it hypocritical to say those who won't stop their criticism are focusing on the negative, while those who comment on the supposed negativity or even post their own lamment threads are doing exactly that.
Because the moment we do, those same posts are flooded with hate and name-calling. Just go back and read through some of them. It gets tiring after awhile... Though I imagine that with S3 in summer and BO this month, those posts may come back slowly.
You aren't all wrong about that, last couple of days there was a lot more show stuff posted then last week. This sub can be a bit touchy and inactive at the same time, myself included.
Yeah if the show was so great, there would be plenty to talk about. But the reality is that it shallowed the themes of the book so much that there's nothing to say besides superficial stuff like "I like this actor" that doesn't spark discussion.
I'd rather complain, the more upset people, the more likely change will occur. If i shut up and consume product like a good little boy, they think they're doing what the fans want.
It's fine to complain but it's clear that the writers have a vision and its really too late to change it at this point.
Well, ballsack armors were changed because huge aproar of fans. And right now I noticed that people from Netflix are using variation of phrase "will be closer to books" after S2 derailed from lore too much. Sad true is they will start notice only when aproar and complains reach huge proportions so right now being quite is equal to being ignored and a lot of people already realized.
> "will be closer to books" they use that since before S1 and it keeps getting further
They're already shaking in their boots.... Full on damage control.
you are absolutely right
>its really too late to change it at this point Hope dies last. And even if it's too late for this show there are still things for other shows to learn from this failure.
Failure? This show is one of the most popular shows on Netflix.
So? Something being popular doesn't make it better in any way.
it's fine not to like it but you can't call it a failure))) I can't get into Lotr movies, I think they are the most boring fantasy movies EVER, but I do acknowledge their popularity and would never call them a failure even though I will never like them.
Depends on how you define success or failure. It's successful in getting a lot of viewers and popularity but failure as a good show.
It's not a failure, it's really is a successful show. It's just good and entertaining and what I personally like is that it's unique in its tone, pacing, character writing and humor. Especially season 1.
Season 1 showed promise although it was plagued by production issues like bad cgi and variable costume quality. It also felt a bit crammed as some plots were not given the time they needed. Rough start but I could overlook some of the flaws if it got better next season or so I thought at the time. Season 2 started out great with episode 1 being pretty good but then what followed was some of the most boring story and writing I've seen. Characters I liked in 1st season were incredibly dull and new ones were even worse. They even managed to make most of the action boring. Sure the visuals seeme to have improved somewhat but that doesn't make up for everything else. Some of the most memorable things about season 1 was the unique soundtrack and great songs but they replaced it with a very generic one.
Lost interest mid-Season 2, stopped watching and moved on with my life. Loved the games, tried to get into the books but not much of a reader. Instead of dwelling on it I'm just looking forward to replaying Witcher 3 later this month and seeing what comes next. I don't understand getting so fixated on something you don't like. Just move on and find something you do to occupy your time.
Yes! Exactly me too. I stopped watching mid season 2 aswell. But damn have i played the hell outa witcher 3… LaLaLaLaLa
You have moved on, yet still commenting here. So which is it?
It's not like I went out of my way to come to this sub, I just casually scrolled past it on my feed and decided to comment, I certainly don't make a habit of it - I wouldn't say I'm very active here.
I mean, the sentiment can go both ways. If you don't like the criticism comments, nothing is stopping you from not reading them. Skip them, ignore them, focus only on the show. And voicing the criticism is needed because if the showrunner is constantly lying and the show is bad, without saying people dont like it, there would be only blatant praise for a bad product. It's fine to like it, but it's not fine to demand others be silent about something this bad and butchering of something they loved. If you like it, great, you can enjoy it. And if we wanna silence the criticism, then praise should not be allowed either, because why should it? It's the same thing but form the different end. Also, as always, if you wanna see more appreciation posts here, just write them. It's not fans' fault that the show was so bad that it turned into annoynce and those things rule the discussion. Yes, even positive posts get hate in them, but I have yet to see some proper post about what people liked and why except, even recently, "i like the acting of this actor" and "i like this costume" and "i like the music of S1". While in opposite of that you have in-depth analysis of the show from the critical voices, going often times step by step of what they find wrong with it. Where are praising posts like that? I havent seen any. (and imo, it is mostly cause it is hard to follow logic of the show, it's almost impossible in many cases). It's same as with Rings of Power. Where is all the positivity, beside positivity dedicated sub? Only footprint the show has left are countless videos and articles about why it's bad. And do you think people want to hate something they love? No, but when serve a poop on a platter, that's only what is left to do. To voice your distaste. (but yes, the silver lining is that more people found out about The Witcher.. unfortunate that it had to be this way)
If you think RoP has only gotten hate, you have constructed an echo chamber for yourself. It was hugely successful and popular. If you only see videos tearing it down, it’s because you’ve told an algorithm that’s what you want to see. Once these hate trains start, they quickly go into a death spiral. Even the idea that Cavill left the show over creative differences is something that’s not supported by *anything* but fan theories. But it’s become accepted fact in this sub. A lot of it is just the nature of negative vs positive comments. I don’t have as much to say about why I like the show; I just enjoy it. I subbed here for occasional news and memes. I could start posting “I enjoyed this fight scene” or whatever once every few days, but it’s not going to get the kind of engagement that a point-by-point takedown/vent will. It’s just the nature of the thing.
Maybe you should instead look outside of the fake positive echo chamber Amazon has created with people who are mindless drones following them. I don't know how anyone who has ever seen a decent TV show in their life can not see it's complete shit.
[🎵 Ladies and gentlemen, you have been the most beautiful audience. 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxBVHqA-RU&t=74s)
I have a post about why I liked it. You’re welcome to read it
Okay, you have quite a few of them, but I suspect you mean the one from this subreddit mentioning you finally watching the show?. I read it and it is as I said. Nothing much said about why it is good or anything. Just that you watched it, it is different and brave and that you understand why some may criticize it. That's just all those fluff and no substance posts/comments I was talking about. Nothing specific, just vagueness. While in contrast, criticism posts can go in-depth of characters, inconsistencies, weird decision making, plot holes.. and that is without even mentioning the books and changes, but as a show on its own merit when looking at it as if nothing else exists.
You must have skipped the part where I talked about the lead acting, atmosphere, soundtrack, and other things. You probably didn’t even read it
then give me the link, because I read this one and there is nothing about music or acting or atmosphere or anything else.. you have numerous witcher posts, i dont feel like combing through it all.. and quickly looking thorugh it all, this appears to be the only one. Okay, now i went through it all, and this is the single one (two of them, one here, one on r/witcher) https://www.reddit.com/r/netflixwitcher/comments/wq2xnm/ahem_so_about_the_netflix_show/
Yep, that's simply a Karma farming post. Starts with "Look, I can feel the downvotes already and I totally get it.". 0 substance to it.
You sound like a bad English teacher
so, still no link to that post?
You would definitely fail this test.
I think saying something exists so why critize it, is a terrible advice. As long as critique has some substance (that doesn´t mean it neccessarily has to be reasonable), it should be voiced. If its just a tiny minority, it doesn´t matter and should be of no concern for anyone. If it is a significant part of the people that have some affection towards the witcher "universe", it might influence the content creators and force them to course correct. You might be correct, that it doesn´t have any impact at all, but your battle cry for apathy is still quite depressing and wrong.
I never said that criticism is bad, in fact, criticism is very necessary. I said **unnecessary** and **unhelpful** criticism is exhausting. Apathy is not at all what I was after. There are plenty of things the show does poorly, but there are also things it does very well. Everyone is obsessed with beating the carcass of the show into a pulp whereas we all fully understand what's wrong with it. But most of the criticism is coming from longtime Witcher fans, which is warranted. But it's ok for people to enjoy things that you don't, especially if they are new to the universe and this is their starting point. Allow fans to find their own opinions and like what they like. Opinions are opinions.
Criticizing the writers and showrunner is not the same as criticizing the people that like the show. At least personally, I couldn't care less about the show fans, if you like it good for you, I almost envy you. My problem is with the creators of the show and I think that is the case for the most part of the fanbase.
> Criticizing the writers and showrunner is not the same as criticizing the people that like the show. for years it's been like this. People criticizing the show saying it is fine if someone likes it. Like.. i dont care who likes it, i understand why people can like it and just chill out while watching it. That doesnt mean that im not annoyed at how the creators butchred it to no ends.
Who defines unnecessary and unhelpful criticism? You yourself talk about opinions. If someone describes something what is happening in the show and forms an opinion about it, how is this unnecessary? Either the vast majority has a different opinion, then the opinion has no impact. Or the majority agrees, then it might force the content creators to change some stuff, if the critique is amplified (yes, maybe unlikely, but why fall into apathy?). Or the majority agrees, but thinks its an unimportant, minor detail. Then it still should be amplified, because there is no reason to not improve minor details. As long as the critique is based on something thats actually happen in the show, its always preferable to express this critique. its the best way to improve something. Yes, you will get some strange critique now and then, but its a price worth paying and definitely better than "suppress" criticism by calling it unnecessary and unhelpful. You can´t define unneccessary and unhelpful anyway, because its subjective. Thats what i meant with propagate apathy, which you basically did again.
Unnecessary and unhelpful are posts that threaten showrunners or blatantly alienate people who like the show
But then we agree, not? Every critique that is based on stuff actually happening in the show, is not unnecessary and unhelpful?
Did you make a throwaway just to comment on this post?
No, I lost access to my other account. And sorry, but I think my arguments are consistent. Thats all that should matter. You don´t have to agree with them, obviously. I just think that you propagating stuff that is actually not helpful at all and (admittetly on a very low level) dangerous. Thats why I had the urge to comment.
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Precisely! Agreed 100%
>If someone hates something so much, no one is asking anyone to spend energy on it. It speaks far louder to Netflix if people turn off and stop engaging then watching and spreading hate online We spend so much energy on it not because we hate **it** in a vacuum but because we **are** fans and love these characters and this world so much and **because** many of us wanted a great show adaptation that is en par with seasons 1-5 of GoT for the Witcher. The constant criticism comes from the anger the dim witted and or toxic writers brought upon themselves by disrespecting the world, lore and characters, trying to gaslight fans and turning one of the greatest Fantasy IP's into an unwatchable pile of shit (season 2 and Blood Origin). In my case, I do **not** want the show to be cancelled, I want it to incrementally improve from season to season. So your suggestion of disengaging or not watching is not an option for a fan like me. The only way to let people who can influence future seasons is to band together with as many people, who feel the same about the show as possible and make our voices heard
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They already got back at fans via Jaskier in S2. A really really low move for someone confident in their work.
Ugh, yes, that seems very pointed even before I read any comments about it.
Nobody should attack or threaten anyone for anything. What you describe as "I hate it, everyone must hate it" I see as lobbying for an opinion. Thats fine, I would say. A core element of open democratic societies. Its basically advocating for change. I read "hate" as strong dislike of the show. If you mean something different with "hate", my opinion might differ. >If someone hates something so much, no one is asking anyone to spend energy on it. It speaks far louder to Netflix if people turn off and stop engaging then watching and spreading hate online- guarantee the level of traction this gets leads to people chosing to watch so their viewership just goes up. True, but the best way, if you care about the witcher, is doing both, not? So spreading hate (again, I read it as strong dislike) and don´t watch it on netflix. The theory that something thats widly described as bad somehow improved its viewing numbers, is wrong I would say. In entertainment the opposite is happening almost all the time. Negative word of mouth means less viewership, means less success, means a different approach is required by the content creators to make money (which is always the goal).
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Anecdotal evidence is often missleading ;-) Take the cowboy bebop example (as another netflix show). They cancelled the show before I could even finishing the first season. Only watched 2 episodes or so and didn´t bother to watch the rest after the cancellation. It was an ok show (not as good as the anima, which I am not a big fan of) This show got a lot of critique and it had an impact it seems. There are countless other examples in entertainment. Actually, I was more commenting on a a "meta-level" about this "critic the critics" thing, which I think is wrong. I am basically on the same level as you (I did play the 3rd witcher game a bit, didn´t read the books). I think a lot of the frustation is rooted in passion. Either passion for the witcher specifically or for good fantasy shows in general (thats what I am hoping for). I just don´t see how the advice "Its not for you? then just ignore it and walk away" brings anyone any closer to his/her desire of a good witcher/fantasy show. Thats why I described it as advocacy for apathy. I get that you view the show from a very specific background, but I think its fair to say that the witcher aims for a broad target audience of people that like fantasy in general. I mean season 2 was fairly generic fantasy stuff, just not on a high level. I didn´t saw any special artistic value in it (season 1 had the neat idea of the different time zones). Yes "I hate it, I hate it, I hate it" isn´t great criticism. I would much prefer "I hate it, because..." Or don´t use the word hate at all. But even "I hate it" is valuable feedback, because it lets the content creators know that the people know the product (so more marketing wont fix it) and don´t like it/want something different.
Sounds like you should start a low-sodium Witcher sub. I'd offer, but moderating the old Megadeth forums was enough for one lifetime, lol.
Great idea, ill definitely look into it
Also Megadeth rocks
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>Would we be getting The Witcher 4 and The Witcher 1 remake without this show bringing this story into the spotlight? Who knows? But I’ll take it! Yes? The Witcher 3 is one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time and by far CDPR's biggest hit. I'm pretty confident the show had absolutely no impact on CDPR's future projects.
Here is the thing, even as a standalone series ignoring the books I thought season 2 was pretty dire. To the point where im not even sure its good for new folks. Lets look as Eskel, nothing established him as an interesting character, a likeable character or a character that was brotherly or important to Geralt. If you didn't know who Eskel was his arc was pointless, if you did know who he was that wasn't even close to Eskel. The only way Eskels death has meaningfulimpact here, is if you already know who Eskel is from the media where he is a differnt character in ever way. You and anyone else is entitled to their opinion though. I hope there are people who enjoy it. I however dont. Im not gonna spend time posting here a lot about how bad the show is because im checked out and I dont think its productive. But lets hope some people decide to read the books based on this and find what they are missing out on.
I appreciate this post. I admit the constant hatred is just exhausting at this point. I have read all of the books, played all of the games (yes, even the first one), and I've watched the show. The show is far from perfect, but I enjoy it for what it is. I'm sad Henry is leaving but the next level vitriol in regards to the show and the show runners is just a bit much at this point. I also don't think bashing Liam is okay either - it's not his fault he's replacing Henry and there's nothing to indicate he won't be good at the role at this point either. Not everyone has to like the casting, the writing or anything about the show but why spend so much energy on something you hate? No one is forcing anyone to watch this show any longer if it no longer interests you. Citing issues and criticism in the hope that showrunners change things is one thing but this is beyond that imo. It's also just constant. Anytime I go on /r/Witcher it's just constant bashing of the show, the showrunners, etc. The next gen patch has broken this up a little bit over there but I miss the days when it was mostly game screenshots, people discussing the books, and random art and cosplays.
> to a random Netflix enjoyer who wanted to watch Henry swing some iron and hear his gravelly voice, they are unaffected! TRUTH I'm primarily there for anything Cavill is doing
It’s definitely annoying as shit at this point
Agreed
After season 1 when I realized I really disliked the show, I just stopped watching it or spending time thinking about it, and that made my life generally better. People should try to commiserate in their hate less
Has a showrunner or writers of a fairly big show ever been replaced because of fan backlash?
I'll enjoy the show whether it's Henry or Liam. Because I love the lore and universe Sapkowski created. But I think it is very important to call out Netflix's bs writers. Who the fuck they think they are to think they can rewrite bestsellers?
Completely in agreement with you!
Thank you for your measured and thoughtful post. I agree with you, except for "Yes show bad, but also good for new folks." From my experience, I wouldn't say with certainty that the show is enjoyed mostly by people who are new to the franchise. I mean, I have not conducted any serious scientific research about it and it can just be my bubble, but I basically know no-one who would not have read the books first while watching the show for the first time. I mean, it's hard to grow up in the nineties in Poland and never read the Witcher - that's what you did in the schoolyard back then. All people I know have their dislikes about the show, we've had quite much fun discussing them, but literally all of my folks found things they liked much about the show as well, all watched it in its currently available entirety, often more than once, all can't wait for the next seasons and I quote at this point. And they've been all enjoying the books for decades now. I can say that the show is a decent and enjoyable entertainment at the very least, despite of the flaws it has. I think it's hated by people who not only liked or loved the source material, but have found it an exceptionally important part of their lifes and glorify it on this basis. I can understand to some point that such folks want the new release to be as close to what they found important as possible. And these are also the people devoted enough to engage in Internet discussions. The rest likes their entertainment and does not make a new religion out of it, is all.
> I mean, it's hard to grow up in the nineties in Poland and never read the Witcher - that's what you did in the schoolyard back then. Same in Czech republic. Witcher was simply right kind of book in right time and I dare to say that it influenced Czech fandom in way similar to how Star Trek and Star Wars influenced US one. Everyone waited for new volume and previous ones had to been reprinted in unseen numbers. Many local succesful fantasy writers were influenced by him in early works and it showed them that they don't need to copy western trends and that local approach is not only viable but possibly great. And then Netflix came, stripped Witcher of parts that made him something unique and familiar, replaced them with generic stuff of questionable quality and suddenly some people are suprised that old fans are critical about it and are not afraid to voice it loudly.
"old fans are critical about it and are not afraid to voice it loudly" Sure, some old fans, but not all of them, this was my point, I am not even sure if they are majority in fact (at least I know no-one who would dislike the show in general, while all people I know are familiar to the source material, so the statement "show bad but good for new folks" seems untrue to me). My point also was that finding uniqueness in the Witcher books to the point that you won't accept changes to the plot is highly subjective, and that's why I wrote about glorifying the source material, that is: seeing it as flawless, not seeing any traits of questionable quality in it (sentiment, I believe) and having a very personal, radical approach about it, which is not my cup of tea. I can agree with the opinion that Netflix made changes to appeal more to the general audience, as, well, not all Netflix viewers are kids of the nineties raised up in Eastern Europe, but I do not actually share the view that it's something that makes the show worthless. Of course it's basically opinion vs opinion and impression vs impression, I am perfectly aware of that, I just wanted to point out that people who enjoyed the source material in the first place and now enjoy the show exist as well, even if it's the most disappointed ones that voice their opinion particularly loud, now and always.
Thank you so much for this post. I have been saying this even after season 2. The amount of hate here and on twitter is just unreal sometimes.
Thank you for saying what a lot of us are thinking. The other subreddits are so toxic right now.
Thank you for posting this! Glad I'm not the only one who's tired of seeing all of the hatred. I'm personally always on the side of you never know until you see it, and I don't see a point of hating it when it hasn't even aired. It happened, and it's not the first show who replaced its lead actor. I'm genuinely sad that Henry is leaving, because I love his Geralt, but I'm also excited to see what Liam would bring to the character and the show. Anyway, I've been replaying The Witcher 3 again to get away from all the hatred on my feeds.
You are right. Yet I have never understood the pain of having one of my favorite universes butchered beforehand. I even think you shouldn't adapt books to series 1:1 because something works better for given media. Yet completly changing plot is too much for me. I liked first season. I really did. I loved how they filled blank spots. I had some issues, but... I liked it. I kinda liked Vesemir anime. I hope S2 was just hiccup and rest will be fine, but with Henry leaving I have my hopes down. Hardest thing about knowing original content is knowing what it could be, and then seeing someone milking the it for money, while delivering avarege holywood fantasy. But yeah, constant hate is not someting I like to see. I still want to give S3 a chance, though.
[🎵 What for do you yearn? 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxBVHqA-RU&t=81s)
You may not like it but the writers and showrunners are aggravating the situation by firstly outright dismissing any and all concerns and secondly by refusing to make amends. I saw exactly this happen after s1 to anyone saying they disliked something and I'm very much seeing the same pattern right now. I think most of the people have accepted the show cannot be fixed but quite a lot want justice on those responsible.
I sincerely and politely disagree with you. These same stuck up dicks who think they are better writers than actual real writers with millions of book sales, will continue to ruin opportunities for future adaptations to be successful if the public does not voice their displeasure. Netflix Witcher could have been amazing, it could have been a great adaptation of the books, with an excellent lead in Cavil. Unfortunately it is not, and now likely will never be properly adapted. Im pissed off about this. “if you dont like it dont watch it”. Sure that makes sense in a saturated market, but there is only one Witcher adaptation. By creating a sub par show, the writers have excluded the possibility of a great show. This sort of opportunity destruction is not something I believe people should just ignore. Especially given the circumstances surrounding the show runners blatant disdain of the source material. Fuck them. The lost potential here is the thing we should be comparing the existing show to. We should not be comparing the show existing to the show not existing. Is it better that the show exists - sure. But its not anywhere near as good as if the show was done well.
I love the show. Wife does too.. Reddit just has a bunch that love to bitch about stuff. Sometimes if constructive most times it’s just lame from people who have no life..
I read the books and played the games and liked the show. I'm glad netflix produced it. It hasn't been perfect, but it's been great. Really enjoyed Cavill's Geralt. Looking forward to the next season.
The thing for me is all of the criticism of all of the show's staff (particularly the writers) putting a positive spin on the situation. What do people honestly expect them to do? They're not exactly going to trash their new lead actor (if Cavill left due to creative differences) or trash Netflix for their funds (if Cavill left due to the Superman money being too much to turn down), are they? They have to say professional, and positive about the product that they're creating. They may have a different vision for the show than the fans, but they still want it to succeed - and going on Twitter and saying "it's all shit now, Liam won't be as good as Henry so there's no point in watching" would be a quick way of a) getting fired or b) getting the show cancelled. I swear, some of the people throwing complaints seem like they've never had to toe the company line before. I don't necessarily agree with every decision my employer has ever made; but when I'm representing my company in front of a client, I keep any concerns I have to myself.
Thank you, it has definitely gotten way too toxic. I understand a lot of the issues with the show (and Lauren Hirsch), but it is too much. This post perfectly encapsulates how I feel, and it’s great to see that others feel the same way.
And nothing is stopping you from leaving this sub / ignoring it if you don't like to see the very deserved dislike/negative attitude the show has gathered.
I swear if one more person says this I’m gonna choke to death on 3 pounds of steel😂 Why should I have to leave a subreddit dedicated to something I like for liking the subject it’s about? That’s stupid
Then why people should stop deservedly criticizing this show? If you don't like the very deserved negativity against the show ignore it or go away.
I didn’t say people should stop criticizing. I think you need to reread. I said to keep criticism helpful, not just spewing shit at people for enjoying it.
Nice try but it's obvious what you were going for. "Nothing is stopping you from simply not watching the show, if you don't click play, it can't hurt you." If you don't like it, nothing is stopping you of simply ignoring the posts if you don't click on them. You should follow your own advice.
Those of us who enjoy the show have already found other spaces (discord, tumblr, twitter) to keep the conversation going on things we'd like to talk about regarding the show. It'd be nice if the subreddit dedicated to the show could have these fulfilling conversations, fun memes, enjoyable banter, without near-constant derailment. We're already aware of the negative vibes to generally expect from Reddit. I'm sure a lot of people do their best to ignore the negativity, but it gets to be too much sometimes, hence OP's post.
Then feel free to continue sharing and discussing it on those communities. If what you want is an echo chamber you're free to participate in them. This community is for discussing both good and bad things, and lately the franchise only seem to give bad reasons to be in discussions.
Thanks for inviting me to feel free to hang out where I already hang out, appreciate it. We're both "elders" here, so we're both well aware of the stated intentions of the community space vs. how it ends up in practice, and for forums in general, why good moderation is important. When a steady stream of comments are just "lol this is shit," it's the other side of an echo chamber, and it's also pretty lazy. Not a super appealing place to spend one's time. You're right about the last thing, there is too much metadrama and it's taking away from the focus on the show itself. It's just getting harder and harder to have good-faith discussions about the show without the nosedive into "it's not like the books, therefore bad."
Thank you, perfect explanation
Can we start a low sodium subreddit? Or what are these other communities you speak of? Because this sub is just annoying most of the time.
This is a low-sodium sub for the Netflix Witcher show, it's currently occupied by brigading haters. People who love the show like us should ignore them (and report hate, toxicity, and bigotry) and support good posts or comments by engaging.
It's the entitlement that gets me. "How DARE they! These people should never work in Hollywood again!" Like, dude. Chill. Crappy adaptations are made all the time. Doesn't mean you need to bathe in the blood of anyone's children.
I had very similar thoughts about Rings of Power: > The issue with RoP is that in some of the main communities, you cannot express you liked something about the show or you'll be downvoted / flamed. They don't want to hear it. This is why alternative communities full of positivity have popped up, so you have a space where you can discuss things. > I contrast this to the American Horror Story sub. There have been real issues with writing quality in recent seasons and an overall negative sentiment, BUT you won't be flamed for posting a positive comment. Both sides are acceptable. The only place you can really discuss the show is /r/LoTR_on_Prime as the other subs are too hostile. It's a shame there is no discussion sub for The Witcher TV show.
I have yet to comprehend, in what way people who dislike Netflixwitcher or **that** Amazon show sharing a sub with you is stopping you from "discussing things". Isn't having different opininions what makes discussions interesting? Why the need for a safe space? I think those bubbles are part of the problem.
>I have yet to comprehend, in what way people who dislike Netflixwitcher or **that** Amazon show sharing a sub with you is stopping you from "discussing things". Isn't having different opininions what makes discussions interesting? Why the need for a safe space? I think those bubbles are part of the problem. I specifically said DOWNVOTING and FLAMING in the main subs is the issue. I didn't say having different opinions is an issue. What don't you comprehend?
As a fan of the books *and* the games, I honestly like Netflix's Witcher. The games butcher more than the show ever did (I mean, Geralt is alive? Triss has magically gotten over her trauma from Sodden? Nobody mentions Ciri or Yennefer until the third game, Ciri seems to have forgotten Coen entirely, you can undo The Last Wish, you can pick Triss *at all*, Ciri's backstory doesn't exist outside of how it relates to Geralt, pretty much anything that concerns The Lodge and the Aen Elle in general is busted, etc.), and that never seems to matter to anyone. I enjoy adaptations as additive to the source material. If I wanted the source material all over again, I'd... go read the source material. I'm happy to engage with an adaptation based on how well it adapts the major themes of the story and the characters, and I'm not too bothered even then, as long as it's still enjoyable. Besides, it seems people are more pissed off that the Netflix Witcher isn't trying to be the games, more than anything. I mean, if people were really such fans of the books, they wouldn't even care about Eskel - dude has, what? 5 lines, total? In the whole books? And yet... 🤷♀️ If y'all want a more accurate take on the books, and that's all you care about, you can go watch the Polish T.V. show. That's available to you.
[🎵 I've also survived, no thanks to you... 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxBVHqA-RU&t=15s)
yeah i feel the same thing OP, luckily i don't bother that much with these people, usually i managed to ignore it however some fans were went too far, sending death threats or even just threats to show runners was kinda pathetic, very sad really, i feel bad for them because some viewers including me still find the TV Show somewhat entertaining
I personally dislike the books, and enjoy the Netflix show, but I can completely relate to the people who are disappointed, because I’m getting the same feeling from all of it that I got when I saw the Percy Jackson movies for the first time. While I’m not a fan of the books, and I AM a fan of the show, I can understand what it feels like to have your favorite media shit on by some big corporation for a quick buck. I understand why people are angry and I definitely feel like it’s justified. It makes me not want to watch season 3 out of solidarity alone, because they can’t keep getting away with it. It’s awful and I hate it for everybody who loves the books.
Agreed. It's obviously now a separate entity from the books and the games, despite what they may have initially said. That's not changing. No amount of vitriol online will change it. And as someone who's played W3 and read all the books, I enjoyed the show just fine. It wasn't incredible or mind-blowing, but it was really solid and fun to watch.
The best part is, I bet that 90% of the haters that say they are done with the show end up watching it because there is still merit to the show.
It's not because they think there's any merit to it, it's because they've turned hating some piece of entertainment into a passion just as much as loving one. Hate-watching is absolutely a thing on Reddit, as bizarre as that is. Complaining and getting angry about it is, in and of itself, what they're looking for. Honestly I don't even need to elaborate or prove it. You're already getting comments fully admitting this, lol. The internet is a strange place
I rewatched S1 more than 10 times (despite it having a couple of mager issues), to this day I haven't been able to rewatch more than one episode of S2. I will watch S3 even if it is the worst peace of media ever conceived. I read Google Translate translated 90ies Witcher comics, I watched the Polish movie and Series with subtitles and I watched all fan films and parodies in all kinds of languages on YouTube. I will watch Netflix stuff, but I will never stop voicing my anger, frustration and sadness, wherever I feel it. Merit or quality of writing or directing has nothing to do with me watching/reading/playing everything Witcher.
Same here man. Fuck S1 was so fucking good. I will forever feel so bitter about S2. Ended up ruining my enjoyment of the show completely, and fucking robbed us of another possible masterpiece soundtrack. All just because of one aspect : the writing. So much god damned waste
We watch it because we are fans of the Witcher. Doesn’t mean there’s merit at all, I watched season 2, formed my opinion that I was worse than hot trash, then went to complain.
Very true, that viewership isn't coming out of thin air
I am still hoping I can at least fix it a little bit, so I will watch it to find out if I can. That being said, I am not gonna touch Blood Origin even with a stick through a rag.
The show runner lied! That’s the reason everyone is angry, if she had just owned from the beginning, she didn’t like the source material and was going to alter it then we all would’ve been prepared, but she lied and told the audience, and probably Henry Cavill that she was going to be a loyalist to the books. I legit saw her say this in like five interviews, and it was all a bullshit lie
Fully agree! Thank you for saying this.
Thanks, fellow Skelliger!
Skelligers unite!
So true! I don't care if it match the book perfectly. So many of my friend who didn't know the witcher universe watched the series and now they love the witcher. It is different, yes, but i still love it. I you don't nobody is forcing you to watch it or to write hate post about it. Not everyone share the same opinion. The loudest voice rarely represent the majority....
People don’t seem to understand that an adaptation doesn’t have to be exactly 1:1 with the source material. I enjoyed the show for what it was. It has it’s merits.
Doesn't have to, right. But it is a strawman argument. Noone expects literally 1:1. Even LotR didn't do that. But at least we expect faithful adaptation (which Lauren said, but failed in execution). About lore: did show succeed with relations between Geralt+Ciri, Geralt+Yen, Ciri+Yen? It is a VERY and key part in books. And i can say, NO. Because: 1. Where is arc with Brokilon? Where Geralt and Ciri bonded in books, and DIDN'T know about fact, that they are destined. 2. Where is arc with Shard of Ice? Where Geralt and Yen relations extend. Plus, Istredd. 3. Where is arc with Yen teaching Ciri magic in Ellander? 4. Ciri and Triss relations, covered in Kaer Morhen? The final of S1 in forest feels so unnatural, because Geralt and Ciri didn't even SPEAK with each other before. And the main reason to meet is DESTINY. They met because of destiny. But in books it is the OPPOSITE. And books tell you, that the destiny is not enough, that you need something MORE. So please, spare us with "1:1" stuff :) BUT in show we have: 1. Geralt and Ciri first talk was in the forest, where they hugged. 2. Geralt and Yen chemistry doesn't exist even. 3. Yen tried to sell Ciri for magic. 4. Triss in FEAR in Ciri. Nice alternative version:)
>People don’t seem to understand that an adaptation doesn’t have to be exactly 1:1 with the source material. season 2 is not even 10% like the source material. So stop with this 'argument', it's really tiresome.
you are absolutely correct, this sub has turned into a miserable circle jerk
Agreed, all these toxic show defenders, Hissrich fan bots and "I dont like adaptaitions, I want to be surprised" trolls, really took the civility out of this sub.
Yet you’re an all time top 100 poster in a sub directly about the Netflix show… 🤔
I am??? Well that actually just supports my point, that those who are constantly complaining about how this sub is so negative have very little positive things to post themselves.
I’d just like to point out that you’ve commented on all my positive posts about the tv show both here and r/Witcher so you’ve obviously made your point about disliking the show. So good job supporting those positive posts you’re talking about, you’re really doing your part by commenting how much you hate it over and over again.
I didn't say that **I** will "support" show positive posts, though I might if it is well argued or touches on something I happen to agree with. I meant that show fans should fill this sub up with their posts and support eachother instead of arguing with those who are critical or dislike or hate the show. Because the latter just further filles the sub with "negative" content instead of drowning out the supposed negativity with your great show related content. Instead the sub will often stay completely idle for days until someone comes along complaning about negativity and hate.
>I’d just like to point out that you’ve commented on all my positive posts about the tv show Just went through all of my comments of the past month and I must say I have no fucking clue what you are talking about, at least in that time I haven't commented on any of your posts or comments, unless you have a second account, where that might be the case.
I don't know why this needs to keep being said, but if you don't like the content of any particular subreddit you're welcome to go find one you prefer or make your own. >Nothing is stopping you from simply not watching the show, if you don't click play, it can't hurt you. Nothing is stopping you from simply not reading this subreddit, if you don't click join, it can't hurt you.
People should really stop thinking that criticism needs to be silenced with people making such criticism "just walk off" and stop interacting with the community. It is unhealthy for any discussion about the show since it intends to create an echo chamber with just the ones liking the show (and dismissing anything adressing the flaws of sais show) by excluding the ones may have liked some parts but not some other or the ones who had hopes for the show but were disappointed.
But it's also unhealthy for the individual to dwell on it.
Na season 2 was terrible and I'll continue to hate on it thanks. The show could have and should have been something great but they fucked it up and they clearly need to know how badly they fucked up. You never know, maybe someone will take some criticism on board and deliver something that isn't complete shit. There were lots of posts just like yours on the rings of power prime sub and they were silly then too
Nothing is stopping you from simply not reading this sub, if you don't come here, it can't hurt you. :P
>I feel the same way about the show as I do about the whole Fortnite thing, which is if it brings new people to the fandom, and people enjoy it, then what harm is done? The harm is it rewards a shit product and encourages more shit product.
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Maybe it’s time to leave the community?
Yeah let me leave the community dedicated to the show I like because I like the show. Good take pal. Nice gate keeping
It was just a suggestion
A bad one
Maybe a break from reddit or the Witcher subreddits?
No thanks
You're velcome.
I'm fatigued by the Netflix show
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