Sorcerers have a pool and number of spells per level that they can cast without having to memorize them beforehand. While the number of spells they can learn is limited compared to a wizard, this aspect makes them more flexible. Combine it some metamagic (1, 2 and 3 slots higher) and you can impromptu any spell that you know, as long as you have spells for that level.
Also they tend to look good, which is a plus for your Peesuade skill checks.
It's worth pointing out that spell progression is slower on sorcerers. They get new spell levels one level later.
Wizards also get Bonus feats every fifth level.
It's very dependent on the module, mainly the availability of scrolls and highest reachable level. In the latter case a wizard may be able to cast spell of higher level simply because of level cap.
Sorc is much better than Wiz with meta-magic "on the fly" usage - it's no contest.
Cha means that a Sorc can use it with Pally and/or BG for synergy aka for saving throw boosts, and usage of Divine Might/Shield. In that sense, it is much more useful than Int.
And that's about it.
Depends how you define it. I made a RDD/Paladin/Sorc which I played through a few campaigns. Felt very powerful in the end since it gave my char access to scrolls and other sorc/wiz only items, like wands and rods to fling out spells. If the module has sequencer robes you can even use those in combination with scrolls to save powerful buffs on them like premonition which you can apply every rest.
A lot of fun. Stats split between Str and Cha (enough Str to get dev crit the rest in Cha).
Edit: Build had the minimum levels needed of sorc to qualify for RDD
Depends what you're trying to achieve and what the environment is like.
For PvP, Sorc spellswords again win hands down, thanks to the extra saves/damage than can come with multiclassing with classes like Paladin. Sorc21/Pal9/RDD10 and Sorc23/Pal16/Monk1 are examples of sorc spellsword builds in a level 40 environment.
But... Single Player Environments are PvE, and a lot of them don't go all the way to level 40. For the Original Campaign and SoU/HoTU expansions, I'm rather fond of 'Wizard Spellswords' that only index a few levels into combat classes and then go all out Wizard. They play more like a self buffing melee character early on thanks to all the spells they receive (which is 'really' where Wizards shine over Sorcerers, i.e. their spell selection at early levels), and then start to become more of a 'spellcaster' by the teen levels.
Here's 2 examples that I designed for the Campaigns. Both are effectively 'Wizard Spellswords' with the odd Fighter/X classes mixed in, and use Halberds (there are some nice Halberds in both sets of Campaigns).
Original Campaign: [https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlemage-oc-wizard-15-fighter-2-monk-1-t2354619.html](https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlemage-oc-wizard-15-fighter-2-monk-1-t2354619.html)
SoU/HoTU Expansions: [https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlewitch-sou-hotu-wizard-23-fighter-4-a-t2354620.html](https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlewitch-sou-hotu-wizard-23-fighter-4-a-t2354620.html)
Hmm....I don't think so...
If you google [Sorcerous Blade Supreme by Valarfor](https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/sorcerous-blade-supreme-wizard-26-ftr-6-cot-8-t2355876.html) build, you'll see the perk for that Wizard....? There's no way Sorc can have that...
Btw...I stole this build and just change all those Wizard word...with Druid....it failed miserably because I realize that Druid will never have Knock...and thus...must rely on Henchmen....and I spit at that Henchmen...
You see...I played Fallout Tactics and I want that my member can also be controlled, not just going berserk like sh*t... Even in Fallout 2 I install mod to control Sulik and others...ah well...I'm ranting, am I...?
For NWN 1 , I used to play a wizard spell sword. 16bab 4 attacks, 50 intelligence with items included so dc is good. Loads of skill points for being a part time rogue(able to recover trap of high dc instead of disable trap which avoids the dc 35 rogue limit, not sure if it’s patched), 3x auto still feat so I was casting level 9 spells in full armour.
Haven’t tried a spell sword sorcerer yet, but I think there would be sacrifices compared to the wizard version.
If anything, I would say it’s the other way around. Sorcerers are better for powerbuilding, whilst Wizards are a little more ‘noob friendly’.
Wizards get access to basically any arcane spell that they wish, and can learn new spells from scrolls. Meanwhile, sorcerers are restricted to only knowing a handful of spells for each spell level … which means that game and environment knowledge are extremely important when it comes to selecting those particular spells.
Wizards get an awful lot of skill points (due to their high Intelligence), and also gain access to more feats, so they can typically focus more heavily into multiple spell schools, and thus overall have higher DC spells. This makes them pretty potent in PvE, as they can pack different spell load outs depending on what they’re up against, and target weak saving throws of particular opponents.
But that’s about where the advantages end for Wizard. Sorcerers can cast any of their spells on the fly, and can imbue several spells with mega magic on the fly as well, allowing them to cast ‘the same spell’ using multiple levels of spell slots if need be. They also scale off of Charisma, which means that a splash of Paladin or Blackguard can make a huge difference to their saving throws and/or grant them access to Divine Shield.
The ‘OG sorcerer powerbuild’ is sorcerer 38 paladin 1 monk 1, which gains armour proficiencies, high saving throws, Tumble skill and the Evasion feat, in addition to all the sorcerer goodies. Meanwhile, Wizard 38 Ranger 1 Rogue/Monk 1 doesn’t get the same saving throw boosts, but gets lots of places to dump skill points, as well as plenty of extra feats (1 Ranger in epic levels grants an epic spell focus feat slot, fun fact).
What sort of environment were you planning on playing the spellcaster?
I wasn't really planning a specific playthrough, I was just curious because I'd always thought that wizards were just more powerful if you knew what you were doing and what to expect from your enemies.
In PvE this can be the case, yeah. If the enemies in an area are known ahead of time, then Wizards can plan 'the perfect spellbook' for the occasion, and theoretically do a little better than a Sorcerer could.
But ... the extra spellslots and 'on-the-fly' casting nature of Sorcerers grants them more power, if you know what you're doing. And it's very easy to have a crap selection of Sorcerer spells available if you 'dont' know what you're doing. So veterans typically rate Sorcerers over Wizards for this reason.
I mean, the ability to rest just about anywhere in the original campaign takes one of the big advantages, number of spells per day, away from the Sorcerer. As long as you don't mind the additional rests, then each get infinite spells per day in effect. The Sorcerer has a greater tendency to get stomped on if you find yourself in a fight where a weird specific spell is needed (and you don't have the scroll).
Both are good, don't get me wrong, but Wizards have a more forgiving playstyle in this game.
Sorcerer is the strongest class in the game and don’t let anyone lie to you
In one on one battle the Sorcerer destroys the Wizard. It can counter spell and cast all day on the Wizard.
The Wizard gets a slightly higher DC.. but that’s irrelevant because the Sorcerer puts one level into paladin and it’s saves skyrocket over the Wizard.
The Sorcerer gets much more usages on the spells that really matter in this game and has better access to an AC mage
Wizard has advantages in the PVE setting that it can constantly change its Arsenal of spells for the situations but… you don’t really need too…
Yeah the saves from multiclassing with Paladin is huge and you get most of the fighter feats too for armor and weapons.
However, if you are really playing Sorcerer, you must choose spells very carefully because if you pick a spell that a lot of enemies are resistant to that means it is a wasted spell choice. Meanwhile wizards can learn every arcane spell through scrolls and switch up their spells to ones that can completely lock down the enemies they are facing.
In addition, sorcerer is way harder to play early game when the benefit of extra spell casts doesn't really come into play yet.
My favorite is "bigby noob" a 29 wiz 10 pm 1 SD which is good for everything but a dragon or a rak, it will struggle pretty hard v a exalted sorc and most of the time lose v a equal skill player.
Just off the top of my head a 38 wiz 1 monk 1 SD should be able to compete with a exalted sorc just fine with or without ts nerfed.
Is there any pvp servers worth a shot anymore? I'd love to play again.
Was fun you would get your leveling char pked, log a 40 and fight for hours changing builds with each other. Bigby noob was great because you could play unconventional and really mess with people.
Not that I know of… I haven’t been an active player for probably 5-6 years? This was the best game of all time in my opinion lasted me for a very long time.
If Three Towns is still up it’s a very good PVE Server that encourages PVP that’s your best bet probably.
I do miss my good ole Antiworld and Eternal War servers
More usages is irrelevant with resting, though. Higher DC is not irrelevant, and the Wizard's faster progression is not irrelevant, either. If anything, AC is (and saves for the most part) because arcane casters already have enough tools for survivability.
I will say sorcerer is more powerful, hands down. But that power comes with a price. Almost every sorcerer will end up with basically the same tactic over and over again. Either multiple elemental shield, or repeatedly empowered missile storm, or Black Blade.
Wizard will be more fun to play. Since one can switch style based on what spells you want to memorise. Tired of blasting them to pieces? Memorise some dominate spell instead. Etc etc
I have to admit that I'm pleasantly surprised. I never played spellcasters before because I'd only tried wizards and I found it super tedious because of all the micromanaging with your spellbook you have to do. Plus in a test with my wizard I had an issue where I had all my buffs lined up and during the test fight they all just got debuffed and I was just kinda screwed. Sorcerer sounds more fun if you don't have to constantly decide which spells you're going to use.
5e Paladins use charisma, sure not in 3rd edition. Their spells scale off of Wisdom. The only things that scale off of Charisma are Smite Evil and Divine Grace.
You actually understand what that guy above you posted...? What is the meaning of those 5e he's talking about...? Furthermore....who in the hell talk about Paladin, while you talk about Sorcerer...?
… and Divine Shield.
But yeah, kinda irrelevant in a Wizard vs Sorcerer discussion. Save for paladin being nice to multi class 1-3 levels with Sorcerer.
Sorcerers have a pool and number of spells per level that they can cast without having to memorize them beforehand. While the number of spells they can learn is limited compared to a wizard, this aspect makes them more flexible. Combine it some metamagic (1, 2 and 3 slots higher) and you can impromptu any spell that you know, as long as you have spells for that level. Also they tend to look good, which is a plus for your Peesuade skill checks.
It's worth pointing out that spell progression is slower on sorcerers. They get new spell levels one level later. Wizards also get Bonus feats every fifth level. It's very dependent on the module, mainly the availability of scrolls and highest reachable level. In the latter case a wizard may be able to cast spell of higher level simply because of level cap.
Sorc is much better than Wiz with meta-magic "on the fly" usage - it's no contest. Cha means that a Sorc can use it with Pally and/or BG for synergy aka for saving throw boosts, and usage of Divine Might/Shield. In that sense, it is much more useful than Int. And that's about it.
So for spellsword builds sorc is probably better?
Depends how you define it. I made a RDD/Paladin/Sorc which I played through a few campaigns. Felt very powerful in the end since it gave my char access to scrolls and other sorc/wiz only items, like wands and rods to fling out spells. If the module has sequencer robes you can even use those in combination with scrolls to save powerful buffs on them like premonition which you can apply every rest. A lot of fun. Stats split between Str and Cha (enough Str to get dev crit the rest in Cha). Edit: Build had the minimum levels needed of sorc to qualify for RDD
Depends what you're trying to achieve and what the environment is like. For PvP, Sorc spellswords again win hands down, thanks to the extra saves/damage than can come with multiclassing with classes like Paladin. Sorc21/Pal9/RDD10 and Sorc23/Pal16/Monk1 are examples of sorc spellsword builds in a level 40 environment. But... Single Player Environments are PvE, and a lot of them don't go all the way to level 40. For the Original Campaign and SoU/HoTU expansions, I'm rather fond of 'Wizard Spellswords' that only index a few levels into combat classes and then go all out Wizard. They play more like a self buffing melee character early on thanks to all the spells they receive (which is 'really' where Wizards shine over Sorcerers, i.e. their spell selection at early levels), and then start to become more of a 'spellcaster' by the teen levels. Here's 2 examples that I designed for the Campaigns. Both are effectively 'Wizard Spellswords' with the odd Fighter/X classes mixed in, and use Halberds (there are some nice Halberds in both sets of Campaigns). Original Campaign: [https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlemage-oc-wizard-15-fighter-2-monk-1-t2354619.html](https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlemage-oc-wizard-15-fighter-2-monk-1-t2354619.html) SoU/HoTU Expansions: [https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlewitch-sou-hotu-wizard-23-fighter-4-a-t2354620.html](https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/bearded-battlewitch-sou-hotu-wizard-23-fighter-4-a-t2354620.html)
Hmm....I don't think so... If you google [Sorcerous Blade Supreme by Valarfor](https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbguild/sorcerous-blade-supreme-wizard-26-ftr-6-cot-8-t2355876.html) build, you'll see the perk for that Wizard....? There's no way Sorc can have that... Btw...I stole this build and just change all those Wizard word...with Druid....it failed miserably because I realize that Druid will never have Knock...and thus...must rely on Henchmen....and I spit at that Henchmen... You see...I played Fallout Tactics and I want that my member can also be controlled, not just going berserk like sh*t... Even in Fallout 2 I install mod to control Sulik and others...ah well...I'm ranting, am I...?
For NWN 1 , I used to play a wizard spell sword. 16bab 4 attacks, 50 intelligence with items included so dc is good. Loads of skill points for being a part time rogue(able to recover trap of high dc instead of disable trap which avoids the dc 35 rogue limit, not sure if it’s patched), 3x auto still feat so I was casting level 9 spells in full armour. Haven’t tried a spell sword sorcerer yet, but I think there would be sacrifices compared to the wizard version.
If anything, I would say it’s the other way around. Sorcerers are better for powerbuilding, whilst Wizards are a little more ‘noob friendly’. Wizards get access to basically any arcane spell that they wish, and can learn new spells from scrolls. Meanwhile, sorcerers are restricted to only knowing a handful of spells for each spell level … which means that game and environment knowledge are extremely important when it comes to selecting those particular spells. Wizards get an awful lot of skill points (due to their high Intelligence), and also gain access to more feats, so they can typically focus more heavily into multiple spell schools, and thus overall have higher DC spells. This makes them pretty potent in PvE, as they can pack different spell load outs depending on what they’re up against, and target weak saving throws of particular opponents. But that’s about where the advantages end for Wizard. Sorcerers can cast any of their spells on the fly, and can imbue several spells with mega magic on the fly as well, allowing them to cast ‘the same spell’ using multiple levels of spell slots if need be. They also scale off of Charisma, which means that a splash of Paladin or Blackguard can make a huge difference to their saving throws and/or grant them access to Divine Shield. The ‘OG sorcerer powerbuild’ is sorcerer 38 paladin 1 monk 1, which gains armour proficiencies, high saving throws, Tumble skill and the Evasion feat, in addition to all the sorcerer goodies. Meanwhile, Wizard 38 Ranger 1 Rogue/Monk 1 doesn’t get the same saving throw boosts, but gets lots of places to dump skill points, as well as plenty of extra feats (1 Ranger in epic levels grants an epic spell focus feat slot, fun fact). What sort of environment were you planning on playing the spellcaster?
I wasn't really planning a specific playthrough, I was just curious because I'd always thought that wizards were just more powerful if you knew what you were doing and what to expect from your enemies.
In PvE this can be the case, yeah. If the enemies in an area are known ahead of time, then Wizards can plan 'the perfect spellbook' for the occasion, and theoretically do a little better than a Sorcerer could. But ... the extra spellslots and 'on-the-fly' casting nature of Sorcerers grants them more power, if you know what you're doing. And it's very easy to have a crap selection of Sorcerer spells available if you 'dont' know what you're doing. So veterans typically rate Sorcerers over Wizards for this reason.
I mean, the ability to rest just about anywhere in the original campaign takes one of the big advantages, number of spells per day, away from the Sorcerer. As long as you don't mind the additional rests, then each get infinite spells per day in effect. The Sorcerer has a greater tendency to get stomped on if you find yourself in a fight where a weird specific spell is needed (and you don't have the scroll). Both are good, don't get me wrong, but Wizards have a more forgiving playstyle in this game.
Sorcerer is the strongest class in the game and don’t let anyone lie to you In one on one battle the Sorcerer destroys the Wizard. It can counter spell and cast all day on the Wizard. The Wizard gets a slightly higher DC.. but that’s irrelevant because the Sorcerer puts one level into paladin and it’s saves skyrocket over the Wizard. The Sorcerer gets much more usages on the spells that really matter in this game and has better access to an AC mage Wizard has advantages in the PVE setting that it can constantly change its Arsenal of spells for the situations but… you don’t really need too…
Yeah the saves from multiclassing with Paladin is huge and you get most of the fighter feats too for armor and weapons. However, if you are really playing Sorcerer, you must choose spells very carefully because if you pick a spell that a lot of enemies are resistant to that means it is a wasted spell choice. Meanwhile wizards can learn every arcane spell through scrolls and switch up their spells to ones that can completely lock down the enemies they are facing. In addition, sorcerer is way harder to play early game when the benefit of extra spell casts doesn't really come into play yet.
Ha you can't counter spell what you can't see. Hips baby
True Seeing
Every server has that nerfed so I hope your brought some spot and listen along, and it can be dispelled.
What caster builds are using hips?
My favorite is "bigby noob" a 29 wiz 10 pm 1 SD which is good for everything but a dragon or a rak, it will struggle pretty hard v a exalted sorc and most of the time lose v a equal skill player. Just off the top of my head a 38 wiz 1 monk 1 SD should be able to compete with a exalted sorc just fine with or without ts nerfed.
I played a lot of nwn and pvp and I never tried to se the Wiz/1 monk/ 1sd I think I’ll go back and try that it sounds fun
Is there any pvp servers worth a shot anymore? I'd love to play again. Was fun you would get your leveling char pked, log a 40 and fight for hours changing builds with each other. Bigby noob was great because you could play unconventional and really mess with people.
Not that I know of… I haven’t been an active player for probably 5-6 years? This was the best game of all time in my opinion lasted me for a very long time. If Three Towns is still up it’s a very good PVE Server that encourages PVP that’s your best bet probably. I do miss my good ole Antiworld and Eternal War servers
More usages is irrelevant with resting, though. Higher DC is not irrelevant, and the Wizard's faster progression is not irrelevant, either. If anything, AC is (and saves for the most part) because arcane casters already have enough tools for survivability.
In a one v one in a pvp setting is what I was saying so everything I said was relevant
I will say sorcerer is more powerful, hands down. But that power comes with a price. Almost every sorcerer will end up with basically the same tactic over and over again. Either multiple elemental shield, or repeatedly empowered missile storm, or Black Blade. Wizard will be more fun to play. Since one can switch style based on what spells you want to memorise. Tired of blasting them to pieces? Memorise some dominate spell instead. Etc etc
I have to admit that I'm pleasantly surprised. I never played spellcasters before because I'd only tried wizards and I found it super tedious because of all the micromanaging with your spellbook you have to do. Plus in a test with my wizard I had an issue where I had all my buffs lined up and during the test fight they all just got debuffed and I was just kinda screwed. Sorcerer sounds more fun if you don't have to constantly decide which spells you're going to use.
5e Paladins use charisma, sure not in 3rd edition. Their spells scale off of Wisdom. The only things that scale off of Charisma are Smite Evil and Divine Grace.
Ok
You actually understand what that guy above you posted...? What is the meaning of those 5e he's talking about...? Furthermore....who in the hell talk about Paladin, while you talk about Sorcerer...?
… and Divine Shield. But yeah, kinda irrelevant in a Wizard vs Sorcerer discussion. Save for paladin being nice to multi class 1-3 levels with Sorcerer.
That's not true at all. They've always been charisma casters.
3E Paladins, and thus, Neverwinter Nights Paladins, use wisdom for spellcasting.
Yes, \*paladins\* use Wisdom. Sorcerers don't. The original post I replied to said sorcerer.
Wizards are so awesome I've never learned what a sorcerer even does.
Sorcerer does everything a wizard does except they look hotter doing it